Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE
On 2009-03-23, Guilherme Polo wrote: > On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > > Guilherme Polo wrote: > >> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > >>> IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person is > >>> likely to have > >> > >> I'm willing to step up as a student for this but I still have to write > >> a good proposal for it. > >> My actual concern is about mentor availability, is someone around > >> interested on being an IDLE mentor ? > > > > If I could, I would, and would have said so. But I have only read about > > tk and have not actually used it. If I did decide to dive into it, you'd > > be mentoring me ;-). What I can and would do is give ideas for changes, > > read and comment on a proposal, and user test patched versions. > > That is very nice Terry. Do you have some specific ideas that you want > to share publicly (or in private) about IDLE ? Your expectations about > what should be addressed first, or areas that should be improved.. you > know, anything. I have one suggestion that I think might be widely appreciated: Add somewhere in the configuration dialog when users can enter a block of Python code to be executed at startup and whenever Restart Shell is executed. Use case: for people who use IDLE for calculations/experiments they might like to always have certain module imported. For me personally, it would be: import os import re import sys from math import * but of course the whole point is that people can write any code they like. (Some people might want to do various from __future__ imports in Python 2.6 to get various Python 3 features for example.) I know that you can use the -c option, but that only works at startup, not every time you Restart Shell. [snip] -- Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy "Rapid GUI Programming with Python and Qt" - ISBN 0132354187 ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE
On 2009-03-25, Guilherme Polo wrote: > On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Mark Summerfield wrote: > > On 2009-03-23, Guilherme Polo wrote: > >> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > >> > Guilherme Polo wrote: > >> >> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > >> >>> IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person > >> >>> is likely to have > >> >> > >> >> I'm willing to step up as a student for this but I still have to > >> >> write a good proposal for it. > >> >> My actual concern is about mentor availability, is someone around > >> >> interested on being an IDLE mentor ? > >> > > >> > If I could, I would, and would have said so. But I have only read > >> > about tk and have not actually used it. If I did decide to dive into > >> > it, you'd be mentoring me ;-). What I can and would do is give ideas > >> > for changes, read and comment on a proposal, and user test patched > >> > versions. > >> > >> That is very nice Terry. Do you have some specific ideas that you want > >> to share publicly (or in private) about IDLE ? Your expectations about > >> what should be addressed first, or areas that should be improved.. you > >> know, anything. > > > > I have one suggestion that I think might be widely appreciated: > > > > Add somewhere in the configuration dialog when users can enter a block > > of Python code to be executed at startup and whenever Restart Shell is > > executed. > > > > Use case: for people who use IDLE for calculations/experiments they > > might like to always have certain module imported. For me personally, it > > would be: > > > >import os > >import re > >import sys > >from math import * > > > > but of course the whole point is that people can write any code they > > like. (Some people might want to do various from __future__ imports in > > Python 2.6 to get various Python 3 features for example.) > > > > I know that you can use the -c option, but that only works at startup, > > not every time you Restart Shell. > > Looks like a good suggestion to me, Mark. > I would recommend adding it as a feature request on the typical place > (bugs.python.org) because although I could just go and do it, I > believe you are aware that new features in IDLE are subject to > approval or disapproval by other members involved with IDLE. Hope you > understand my position. [snip] Added as issue 5594. -- Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy "Programming in Python 3" - ISBN 0137129297 ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] 2.7 Release? 2.7 == last of the 2.x line?
Hi, I wanted to make some brief comments on this thread: - 2to3 encourages people to see Python 3 as exotic and other---and not to actually write in it. - 3to2 encourages people to use Python 3 and also provides a route to Python 2 compatibility. I hope that a point will be reached where people are encouraged to do a one off 2to3, hand fix, and once it passes their tests to keep a single Python 3 source and use 3to2 to support their users of older Pythons. - Unicode strings is the solution, not the problem, and is one of Python 3's most important advances. - Have any big ports been done? Yes, PyQt4. PyQt4 supports both Python 2 and Python 3---and the port was done by one person in his "spare" time over a period of months. PyQt4 wraps at least 700,000 lines of C++ code---and it isn't just GUI stuff, it has networking, threading, etc., and works on Linux, Mac, Windows, etc. - I do hope NumPy gets ported, since both on and off the lists it seems like a show-stopper for many people. - I hope the "ditch 3" calls are ignored. Python 3 is significantly better than (an already excellent) Python 2: eventually people will port---or those who start out with Python 3 will build their own libraries for what's missing, just as people did when Python 2 came out. - I think the developers have done a fantastic job with Python 3. I just wish more people realised how good it is! Regarding the Moratorium: +inf since I'd really love to see more time devoted to improving the standard library. My 2c:-) -- Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy "Advanced Qt Programming" - ISBN 0321635906 ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement
On 2010-05-21, Brian Quinlan wrote: > The PEP is here: > http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3148/ [snip] Hi Brian, Could I suggest a small subtle changing in naming: replace "executor" with "executer"? I guess this suggestion is doomed though since Java uses executor:-( I'd also be tempted to rename "submit()" to "apply()" in view of Python's history. Also, maybe change "done()" to "finished()" since the function returns True if the call was cancelled (so the job can't have been "done"), as well as if the call was finished. Actually, having read further, maybe the best name would be "completed()" since that's a term used throughout. Perhaps call the "not_finished" set "pending" since presumably these are still in progress? (My understanding is that if they were cancelled or finished they'd be in the "finished" set. I'd also rename "finished" to "completed" if you have a "completed()" method.) I think FIRST_COMPLETED is misleading since it implies (to me anyway) the first one passed. How about ONE_COMPLETED; and similarly ONE_EXCEPTION? I think it would be helpful to clarify whether the timout value (which you specify as being in seconds) can meaningfully accept a float, e.g., 0.5? Anyway, it looks like it will be a really nice addition to the standard library:-) -- Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy "C++ GUI Programming with Qt 4" - ISBN 0132354160 ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement
On 2010-05-23, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 5/22/2010 8:06 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote: > > On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Brian Quinlan wrote: > >> Rename "executor" => "executer" > > > > -1 for consistency with Java. > > -10 for 'executer'. As far as I can find out, it is a misspelling of > 'executor'. If the designers of some other language made a stupid > mistake, let them correct it instead of us following them over a cliff. I'd suggested this because it seemed obvious to me, but clearly not. Compare: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/executor http://www.thefreedictionary.com/executer However, as I mentioned in the first place I didn't expect any change of this since Java uses the first spelling. [snip] -- Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy "Advanced Qt Programming" - ISBN 0321635906 ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library
On 2010-07-11, Ronald Oussoren wrote: > On 11 Jul, 2010, at 1:05, Tal Einat wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library. -1 > > I have been using IDLE since 2002 and have been doing my best to help > > maintain and further develop IDLE since 2005. [snip] > I'm -1 on that. Several books, including fairly recent ones, use IDLE as > the IDE for running examples. > > Ronald Thanks for mentioning that! My book "Programming in Python 3 (second edition)" introduces IDLE in Chapter 1 as follows: "As the screenshot in Figure 1.1 shows, IDLE has a rather retro look that harks back to the days of Motif on Unix and Windows 95. This is because it uses the Tk-based Tkinter GUI library (covered in Chapter 15) rather than one of the more powerful modern GUI libraries such as PyGtk, PyQt, or wxPython. The reasons for the use of Tkinter are a mixture of history, liberal license conditions, and the fact that Tkinter is much smaller than the other GUI libraries. On the plus side, IDLE comes as standard with Python and is very simple to learn and use." I personally really dislike Tcl/Tk. Nonetheless I invariably prefer to use IDLE than the raw command line for experimenting with Python and also for doing small one off custom jobs, so I end up using IDLE most days. I use IDLE on Linux & Windows (both 32 bit) with no problems. (My usage is purely of the interactive shell, I never use IDLE for editing.) -- Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy "Programming in Python 3" - ISBN 0321680561 http://www.qtrac.eu/py3book.html ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] [RELEASED] Python 3.2 rc 1
Hi Georg, I can't be sure it is a bug, but there is a definite difference of behavior between 3.0/3.1 and 3.2rc1. Given this directory layout: $ ls -R Graphics/ Graphics/: __init__.py Vector Xpm.py Graphics/Vector: __init__.py Svg.py And these files: $ cat Graphics/__init__.py __all__ = ["Xpm"] $ cat Graphics/Xpm.py #!/usr/bin/env python3 XPM = 0 $ cat Graphics/Vector/__init__.py __all__ = ["Svg"] $ cat Graphics/Vector/Svg.py #!/usr/bin/env python3 from ..Graphics import Xpm SVG = 1 I can do the relative import with Python 3.0 and 3.1 but not with 3.2rc1: $ python30 Python 3.0.1 (r301:69556, Jul 15 2010, 10:31:51) [GCC 4.4.4] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> from Graphics.Vector import * >>> Svg.SVG 1 $ python31 Python 3.1.2 (r312:79147, Jul 15 2010, 10:56:05) [GCC 4.4.4] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> from Graphics.Vector import * >>> Svg.SVG 1 $ ~/opt/python32rc1/bin/python3 Python 3.2rc1 (r32rc1:88035, Jan 16 2011, 08:32:59) [GCC 4.4.5] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> from Graphics.Vector import * Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in File "Graphics/Vector/Svg.py", line 2, in from ..Graphics import Xpm ImportError: No module named Graphics Should I report it as a bug or is this a planned change of behavior (or was the original behavior wrong?). -- Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy "Advanced Qt Programming" - ISBN 0321635906 http://www.qtrac.eu/aqpbook.html ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] [RELEASED] Python 3.2 rc 1
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 09:23:39 -0500 "R. David Murray" wrote: > On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 08:33:42 +, Mark Summerfield > wrote: > > from ..Graphics import Xpm > > SVG = 1 > > > > I can do the relative import with Python 3.0 and 3.1 but not with > > 3.2rc1: > > What about 3.1.3? I wonder if it is related to this issue: > > http://bugs.python.org/issue7902 > > -- > R. David Murray www.bitdance.com I'm not sure. Anyway, I have reported it a Georg's suggestion: http://bugs.python.org/issue10926 And mentioned issue7902. -- Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy "Programming in Python 3" - ISBN 0321680561 http://www.qtrac.eu/py3book.html ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Beta version of the new devguide
Hi Brett, On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:08:00 -0800 Brett Cannon wrote: > http://docs.python.org/devguide/ Personally, I found the first paragraph of "Contributing" a bit off-putting. How about replacing: People who wish to contribute to Python must read the following documents in the order provided. You can stop where you feel comfortable and begin contributing immediately without reading and understanding these documents all at once, but please do not skip around within the documentation as everything is written assuming preceding documentation has been read. With something like: The Python core development team always welcomes new contributors, so we are very glad of your interest! Please read the following documents---in the order shown---to ensure that you understand how Python's development process works. This will ensure that your contributions are considered purely on their merit and don't get rejected due to missing or incorrectly performing a step in the process. In "Getting Set Up" it describes how to build a pydebug build. Is that really necessary for those who plan only to contribute by working on pure Python code? I had a quick skim over the rest and got the feeling that no clear distinction is made between C and Python work. Personally, I feel that more of a distinction should be made since not everyone will be confident or interested in C. (And maybe more distinction should be made between working on CPython and the standard library?) Overall I think this document is *extremely welcome* and I am very glad you have done it. I'm sure that once it starts to get known it will help add to the pool of people contributing to Python as well as helping to keep the processes clear:-) -- Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy "Advanced Qt Programming" - ISBN 0321635906 http://www.qtrac.eu/aqpbook.html ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] [RELEASED] Python 3.2 rc 3
On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 07:40:00 +0100 Georg Brandl wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On behalf of the Python development team, I'm happy to announce > the third release candidate of Python 3.2. > > Python 3.2 is a continuation of the efforts to improve and stabilize > the Python 3.x line. Since the final release of Python 2.7, the 2.x > line will only receive bugfixes, and new features are developed for > 3.x only. [snip] It looks good:-) V. small suggestion: how about putting the "New, Improved, and Deprecated Modules" in What's New in alphabetical order? -- Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy Programming in Python 3" - ISBN 0321680561 http://www.qtrac.eu/py3book.html ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Python 3 - Mac Installer?
Hi, Just wondered if/when there'd be a Mac installer for Python 3? Thanks! -- Mark Summerfield, Qtrac Ltd, www.qtrac.eu C++, Python, Qt, PyQt - training and consultancy "Programming in Python 3" - ISBN 0137129297 ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
