Re: [Python-Dev] cpython (3.3): Closes #20872: dbm/gdbm/ndbm close methods are not documented

[Jesus Cea]

On 25/06/14 20:35, Ned Deily wrote:
> The 3.3 branch is open only to security fixes. Please don't backport 
> other patches to there.
> 
> https://docs.python.org/devguide/devcycle.html#summary

Ned, I am aware. It is a doc-only fix, like fixing a typo or correcting
an incorrect statement. It that is against policy, let me know.

That said, looks like 3.3 documentation is not "sphinxed" anymore to the
webpage, so that actually makes the point high and clear. I have a
browser tab open to check a 3.3 doc fix and it is not showing.

Thanks for the heads up. Sorry for the inconvenience.

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[Python-Dev] mUTF-7 support?

[Jesus Cea]

I miss mUTF-7 support (as used to encode IMAP4 mailbox names) in Python,
in the codecs module. As an european with a language with 27 different
letters (instead of english 26), tildes, opening question marks, etc., I
find it very inconvenient.

This encoding is used basically only in IMAP4, I know. But IMAP4 is an
important protocol and all projects related to it needs mUTF-7 support
if they care about non-english alphabets. Everybody has already an
implementation, waste of effort.

We already support quite amusing encodings in
.

What do you think?. Could be considered for Python 3.5?.

I volunteer for the job, of course.

PS: Do you think a Python implementation would be good enough?. I don't
think this need to be C-fast.

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Re: [Python-Dev] mUTF-7 support?

[Jesus Cea]

On 10/10/14 01:08, Victor Stinner wrote:
> When you say "IMAP4", do you mean any IMAP4 server? Do you have a list
> of server vendors known to use the encoding mUTF-7?

All of them. IMAP4 protocol **REQUIRES** mUTF-7.

UTF-8 is optional in IMAP4, and even UTF-8 capable servers have to
support clients without that ability.

Check "5.1. Mailbox Naming" in IMAP4 RFC:
.

> Anyway, open an issue ;-)

I would like to gauge interest/resistance to the idea from my fellows first.

> How is mUTF-7 different than UTF-7? (Why yet another encoding while
> standard UTF encodings exist???)

As explained in section "5.1.3. Mailbox International Naming Convention":

"""
The purpose of these modifications is to correct the following
   problems with UTF-7:

  1) UTF-7 uses the "+" character for shifting; this conflicts with
 the common use of "+" in mailbox names, in particular USENET
 newsgroup names.

  2) UTF-7's encoding is BASE64 which uses the "/" character; this
 conflicts with the use of "/" as a popular hierarchy delimiter.

  3) UTF-7 prohibits the unencoded usage of "\"; this conflicts with
 the use of "\" as a popular hierarchy delimiter.

  4) UTF-7 prohibits the unencoded usage of "~"; this conflicts with
 the use of "~" in some servers as a home directory indicator.

  5) UTF-7 permits multiple alternate forms to represent the same
 string; in particular, printable US-ASCII characters can be
 represented in encoded form.
"""

> Requests of new encodings:

I am volunteering and can even do the mercurial PUSH myself :-p. That is
an advantage over some of those new encoding requests :-pp.

But then yes, I realize that this is a specialized tool (even if IMAP4
is probably the most popular mail access protocol in the world), we can
accommodate every use-case and there are tons of mUTF-7 libraries out
there already.

So, I am asking :).

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Re: [Python-Dev] mUTF-7 support?

[Jesus Cea]

On 10/10/14 02:00, Victor Stinner wrote:
> 2014-10-10 1:33 GMT+02:00 Jesus Cea :
>> The purpose of these modifications is to correct the following
>>problems with UTF-7:
> 
> If you need performances, I would be interested to see if it would be
> possible to reuse the C codec for UTF-7 to share as much code as
> possible.

I don't need performance, and implementations I am studying are already
using UTF-7 as an intermediate step.

Example: <http://imapclient.freshfoo.com/browser/imapclient/imap_utf7.py>

> What is the current behaviour of imaplib in Python 3.4 with non-ASCII
> characters in mailbox names?

It breaks. Crash & burn.

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Re: [Python-Dev] mUTF-7 support?

[Jesus Cea]

On 10/10/14 02:43, Victor Stinner wrote:
> 2014-10-10 2:34 GMT+02:00 Jesus Cea :
>>> What is the current behaviour of imaplib in Python 3.4 with non-ASCII
>>> characters in mailbox names?
>>
>> It breaks. Crash & burn.
> 
> Oh ok. So in short, imaplib doesn't work on Python 3: it's a bug and
> it must be fixed. I agree that a new codec is good idea and I will
> support it!

Actually, it doesn't work in Python 2 either. It never supported
international mailbox names.

Should I dare to suggest to port this to 2.7, since 2.7 is special and
will be supported for a long time?. Or maybe this is something like
"Yes, Python 2 is broken, the real deal is Python 3"? :).

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Re: [Python-Dev] mUTF-7 support?

[Jesus Cea]

On 10/10/14 04:41, R. David Murray wrote:
> Specifically, it is about what we might better term mailbox
> *folders*...that is, not what you would normally think of as the
> 'mailbox name', which is usually understood to be the thing before the @
> in the email address (and can't contain non-ASCII yet...we need RFC 6855
> support for that, and I'm not sure *anybody* has that yet).
> 
> In this context it is the names you give to folders on the IMAP
> server...starting (usually) with INBOX and adding from there.  These
> names are used in IMAP commands (ex: the 'select' or 'create' commands),
> and IMAP uses mUTF-7 for those.

In IMAP4, mail folders are called "mailboxes". Yes, non universal
notation sucks.

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Re: [Python-Dev] mUTF-7 support?

[Jesus Cea]

I think the consensus so far is that this is a good idea. I just opened
. Thanks for your feedback.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Jesus Cea]

On 03/09/14 02:37, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

> I'm not sure that's an answer to the problem. What we need is not more
> machines, but dedicated buildbot maintainers.

I would love to get an email if my buildbots are consistently RED for a
few hours.

In the past Antoine, Victor and others pinged me about issues in my
buildbots (OpenIndiana). I feel shame and I think it is not very
productive either.

If red state in the buildbots were really trustable, the committer of
that changelog should be bugged too. Since we have quite a few false
positives, that would be probably annoying and no productive. Decreasing
false positives should be a priority.

In my case another issue is that my buildbots are hosted as a Solaris
ZONE inside a OpenIndiana development machine I don't manage. Their own
usage varies and can impact buildbots resource limits like memory, swap
space, etc.

Thanks for your patience and for notifying me issues when you suffer them.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Jesus Cea]

On 10/10/14 17:56, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Could I write a little
> monitor at my end that asks every hour if my buildbots can be seen?

AFAIK maintainers already get an email if the buildbot vanishes long
enough. I am more interested in getting an email when my buildbot is
consistently red because somebody committed something it doesn't like
two months ago...

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Re: [Python-Dev] Sad status of Python 3.x buildbots

[Jesus Cea]

On 10/10/14 17:45, Jesus Cea wrote:
> Thanks for your patience and for notifying me issues when you suffer them.

Another issue is changes that actually breaks buildbots and I don't
actually know where to start debugging. For instance, currently:

<http://buildbot.python.org/all/builders/x86%20OpenIndiana%202.7/builds/2541/steps/test/logs/stdio>

"""
==
FAIL: test_init (test.test_readline.TestReadline)
--
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"/export/home/buildbot/32bits/2.7.cea-indiana-x86/build/Lib/test/test_readline.py",
line 52, in test_init
self.assertEqual(stdout, b'')
AssertionError: '\x1b[?1034h' != ''
"""

No idea what to do now, beside forcing bisection builds and blaming
somebody else :).

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[Python-Dev] Strange "help(int.__lt__)". Probably documentation bug

[Jesus Cea]

http://bugs.python.org/issue20530#msg231584

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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange "help(int.__lt__)". Probably documentation bug

[Jesus Cea]

On 27/11/14 13:42, Victor Stinner wrote:
> 2014-11-27 13:41 GMT+01:00 Victor Stinner :
>> I am amused about the "/)" suffix in the signature. It happens to all
>> magic methods.
> 
> If I remember correctly, it means  that the function does not accept keywords:

I don't understand. Is that internal annotation for the clinic machinery?.

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Re: [Python-Dev] MemoryError and other bugs on AMD64 OpenIndiana 3.x

[Jesus Cea]

Sorry, I am currently traveling. Away from real computer until April 7th.


On 28/03/15 10:48, Victor Stinner wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> The buildbot AMD64 OpenIndiana 3.x is always red since at least 6
> months. Almost always, tests fail because the buildbot has not enough
> memory. Well, it's fun to see how Python handles MemoryError (it's
> pretty good, there is no hard crash! my work on failmalloc was maybe
> useful ;-)), but it doesn't help to detect regressions.
> 
> Would it be possible to enhance this buildbot?

Those buildbots are hosted in OpenIndiana infraestructure. I take care
of the Solaris Zone (similar to docker but better :-)) but I can't
interact with the "real" machine. Sometimes changes in the "real"
machine had impacted us and nobody realized until some time later, when
nobody remembers what was changed or who did it.

I have contacted the machine manager and he has said to me that 16GB
were taken in the "/tmp" directory by buildbot user. He has deleted them
and everything should be fine now. Lets see.

Anyway if buildbot is leaving garbage behind we should take care of it.
Doing a daily cron for manual cleaning up seems a bit hacky :).

I would be interested, too, in getting an email when one of my buildbots
is red for more than, lets say, 4 days in a row. An email per day would
be fine.

BTW, buildbot pages are painfully slow. The manager had to "insist" and
be patient to see
,
etc.

How can that be improved?.

> I copy this email to the owner of buildbot. But I also sent it to
> python-dev because MemoryError is not the only error, please take care
> of our buildbots!

Thanks for keeping me in the loop. I hope everything is going green for
a while now :)

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Re: [Python-Dev] New security-annou...@python.org mailing list

[Jesus Cea]

On 21/09/17 17:30, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/security-announce

"No such list security-announce".

> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/security-sig

"No such list security-sig".

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[Python-Dev] "threading.Lock().locked()" is not documented

[Jesus Cea]

https://docs.python.org/3.6/library/threading.html doesn't document
"threading.Lock().locked()", and it is something quite useful.

In fact, it is used in "threading.py" itself. For instance, lines 109,
985, 1289.

Is there any reason to not document it?.

(I didn't investigate other objects in the module).

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[Python-Dev] Request for review: issue 42815: new thread doesn't copy context of the parent thread

[Jesus Cea]

https://bugs.python.org/issue42815

https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/24074


I would love to have this in Python 3.10, but the interaction with 
"decimal" context has a risk I don't know how to evaluate, neither the 
impact of a new "context" parameter when launching a new thread. It 
could collide with a "frequently used" parameter name.


I know that we are quite late in 3.10 window since rc1 is planned in a 
couple of days, but I think this enhancement is sensible. In fact, I 
discovered it after being annoyed myself with this issue (threads should 
have their own contexts) and studying the code to write a patch myself.


In particular, "concurrent.futures" threads should have independent 
contexts, like asyncio futures have. That would allow, for instance, to 
have a "requests.Session" object per thread since that object is not 
thread-safe (my use case today) and reuse it in different futures that 
happens to run in the same thread.


Since "contextvars" is "threading.local" correctly done, let's do it for 
real.


If legacy code expects a thread to be able to modify parent context, 
just pass that context to the thread explicitly.


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[Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

[Jesus Cea]

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I just received an email from my OpenID provider, "myOpenID", saying
that they drop OpenID service next February. I wonder what other
OpenID providers are used by other python-dev fellows.

What are you using?. bugs.python.org admins could share some data?

I agree than OpenID is (quite) dead, but I rather prefer OpenID to use
user/pass. I have big hopes for Mozilla Persona, looking forward
Python infrastructure support :).

PS: I use "http://www.jcea.es/"; as my OpenID identity, and I delegate
the actual service to "myOpenID". I can switch delegation trivially.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

[Jesus Cea]

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On 05/09/13 21:53, Ben Finney wrote:
> My own take is that most people choose convenience and expedience
> over security and freedom, hence Facebook and Twitter and Google
> have taken over the online identity game instead of a federated
> identity system.

That is one of the Persona improvements: If your email provider is not
supporting it, you can still use your email with "persona" (thru
Mozilla servers). If you provider support OAUTH authentication (let
say, Facebook, twitter, Google), You can use that identity to prove
your identity to Mozilla, and Mozilla to prove your email ID to any
Persona consumer. In the process, you get privacy (facebook doesn't
know where are you using authentication, beside Mozilla).

Being a Persona provider is easy, being a verifier is trivial.

An interesting property of Persona is that if its popularity grows, it
becomes decentralized "automágically".

Anyway, I was asking for alternative OpenID providers, not to open a
debate about single sign on methods :).

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Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

[Jesus Cea]

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On 05/09/13 22:36, Oleg Broytman wrote:
> There was no demise. Because there was no take-off. OpenID was
> never popular. I can remember a very limited set of major sites
> that allow login using OpenID: SourceForge, LiveJournal, BitBucket.
> The first two

I remember a day where OpenID was the ONLY authentication method in
StackOverflow.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

[Jesus Cea]

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On 05/09/13 23:56, Oleg Broytman wrote:

> Well, I can only use services that are available, not those that
> are promised. If python.org grows support for Persona -- who will
> be my provider and for what price? I am not going to install and
> manage additional software on my servers -- I don't want to be my
> own provider, I have enough job already.

If your email provider is not supporting Persona, the automatic
fallback is Mozilla, a non-profit, free web, I care about your
privacy, organization.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

[Jesus Cea]

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On 05/09/13 22:29, Oleg Broytman wrote:

> I have seen exactly 0 (zero) sites that support Persona. Can you 
> point me?

"Python España" (Python Spain) association is going to provide Persona
Only login. Deployment in four weeks.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

[Jesus Cea]

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On 05/09/13 20:45, Eli Bendersky wrote:
> PS: I use "http://www.jcea.es/"; as my OpenID identity, and I
> delegate the actual service to "myOpenID". I can switch delegation
> trivially.
> 
> http://bugs.python.org/?@action=openid_login&provider=Google

Sorry, Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc., are not acceptable OpenID
providers for me. I should have made that point in my original email.
My excuses.

Any other suggestion?

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Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

[Jesus Cea]

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On 06/09/13 17:18, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> I looked at this several years ago. As I recall, the problem at the
> time was that the Apple and Sun DTrace implementations were
> incompatible, or that the probes they had inserted into their own
> /usr/bin/python instances were incompatible. (Don't remember which
> off the top of my head.) Of course, the DTrace folks at Apple and
> Sun weren't really interested in holding hands...

Right. They use two different set of probes because Python doesn't
provide "official" probes :-).

If I recall correctly, they were basically identical, with an extra
parameter somewhere. I think my patch provides a superset.

Anyway, I don't think neither of them support Python 3. Time to step
in and liderate.

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[Python-Dev] Details of "import lock" in 3.3

[Jesus Cea]

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With importlib and other recent changes, what are the current details
of "import lock"?. That is, the lock/locks held when Python code does
"import", specially in the case of multithreading. Is that documented
anywhere?

Thanks!

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[Python-Dev] DTRACE support

[Jesus Cea]

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As far as I know, Erlang, Ruby, PHP, Perl, etc., support Dtrace.
Python is embarrasingly missing from this list.

Some examples:





I have spend a very long time on a patch for Dtrace support in most
platforms with dtrace available. Currently working under Solaris and
derivatives, and MacOS X. Last time I checked, it would crash FreeBSD
because bugs in the dtrace port, but that was a long time ago.

I would like to push this to Python 3.4, and the window is going to be
closed soon, so I think this is the time to ask for opinions and
support here.

Does Python-Dev have any opinion or interest in this project?. Should
I push for it?

Some (not current) details: http://bugs.python.org/issue13405

DTrace is amazing: http://dtrace.org/blogs/

PS: I can't release this code as a PyPI project, because it mess with
the inner core of Python.

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Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

[Jesus Cea]

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On 06/09/13 17:08, Jesus Cea wrote:
> Does Python-Dev have any opinion or interest in this project?.
> Should I push for it?

I have using this code for ages on my Solaris machines:

Python 2.7.5 (dtrace-issue13405_2.7:f96ea83cd766, Aug 19 2013, 02:55:15)

Python 3.3.2 (dtrace-issue13405_3.3:23dafaf73d29, Aug 19 2013, 05:52:34)

Python 3.4.0a1+ (dtrace-issue13405:d7be45bb06a3, Aug 19 2013, 07:03:24)

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Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

[Jesus Cea]

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On 06/09/13 17:14, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> I've heard good things about DTRACE but never used it myself.
> 
> Do I understand correctly that you have to build a separate Python 
> executable with it turned on?

It is a patch you apply on stock Python and you get a new configure
option: "--with-dtrace". If you compile Python with that flag, you get
a python interpreter with dtrace probes on it.

> I noticed one odd thing in the patch: apparently the dtrace module 
> only exists to have a flag that tells whether it is enabled. Can't 
> that flag be added to the sys module?

My plan is to (in the future) use that module to create new probes on
the fly, like
,
and to export functions to communicate data to dtrace scripts, if running.

That is, this module is currently a shell I plan to fill.

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Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

[Jesus Cea]

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On 06/09/13 17:41, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> You should start by addressing review comments: 
> http://bugs.python.org/issue13405#msg151751

Antoine, my first step now is to poke Python-DEV about this subject.
If the consensus is "DON'T" I will probably maintain this patch by
myself. I saw big "BUTs" with this work in the bug tracker, so I
rather prefer to ask for actual interest before investing in iron out
patch implementation details.

If devs actually want it, then next step is to improve current work to
make it acceptable in mainline. There are quite a few ugly corners I
would love to file out, beside your (really valuable) feedback.

That is how I see it.

> Right now, I agree with Charles-François: your patch is too
> intrusive.

It is intrusive. Yes. I think it must be, by its own nature. Probably
room for improvement and code transparency. But... are Python-DEVs
interested in the project?. That is the point :)

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Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

[Jesus Cea]

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On 06/09/13 17:29, Charles-François Natali wrote:
> IMO, that's a large, intrusive patch, which distracts the reader
> from the main code and logic.

Yes, the patch is intrusive. It must be, to get its goals. Could be
improved, nevertheless. Help and suggestions welcome.

I want to write a probe for the GIL, but I didn't because I know
adding the cost of an extra single machine code branch would be
anathema here :-) (lets do baby steps), but I would love to be able to
watch with detail all interaction between the GIL, threads, and OS
scheduling on my Solaris :). That is very valuable information to
have, for instance, to guide future improvements of the GIL. How can
you get that kind of information with any other tool?

> IMO it's not worth it (personally strace/gdb/valgrind are more
> than enough for me, and we''re about to gain memory tracing with
> Victor's tracemalloc).

The main value of DTrace is systemwide observability. You can see
something "strange" at kernel level and trace it to a particular line
of code in a random Python script. There is no other tool that can do
that. You have complete transversal observability of ALL the code
running in your computer, kernel or usermode, clean reports with
threads, etc.

Valgrind doesn't work on Solaris and *BSD support is unclean.

You can run a dtrace script in a long running python process if you
need it, after launching it, at runtime, and when the dtrace script is
done, the python program keeps running without any penalty. Just
poking around, for instance. I do it constantly for, for instance,
profiling covering both Python as any C code/libraries called from it.

Maybe the biggest objection would be that most python-devs are running
Linux, and you don't have dtrace support on linux unless you are
running Oracle distribution. But world is larger than linux, and there
are some efforts to port DTrace to Linux itself. DTrace is available
on Solaris and derivatives, MacOS X and FreeBSD.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Details of "import lock" in 3.3

[Jesus Cea]

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On 06/09/13 17:43, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Quick summary here: 
> http://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.3.html#a-finer-grained-import-lock
>
>  Otherwise, I'm afraid the source code has the most information,
> e.g.: 
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/1d88d04aade2/Lib/importlib/_bootstrap.py#l124

Yes,
> 
I was depending of the global import lock in my code. I am
evaluating impact under Python 3.3.

Under Python 3.3, metafinder/loader MUST BE reentrant?.

Can they count on the fact that they could be called concurrently by
multiple threads but NOT for importing the SAME module?.

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Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

[Jesus Cea]

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On 06/09/13 20:33, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:14:26 +0200 Jesus Cea  wrote:
>> 
>> It is intrusive. Yes. I think it must be, by its own nature.
>> Probably room for improvement and code transparency. But... are
>> Python-DEVs interested in the project?. That is the point :)
> 
> As a concrete data point: - here are Dave's modifications to
> ceval.c for systemtap: 
> http://bugs.python.org/review/14776/diff/5177/Python/ceval.c - here
> are your modifications to ceval.c for dtrace: 
> http://bugs.python.org/review/13405/diff/6151/Python/ceval.c

Unfair, because that code is not doing the same thing.

Most of the extra complexity is there to deal with DTRACE ability to
provide meaningful stackframes, with Python code instead of CPython
evaluation loop. This is kind of magical.

Look at this:

""
[root@stargate-host /]# ps -lAf|grep -i correo
 0 S   correo  1371 1   0  40 20? 277063?   Jul 29
?  90:43 /usr/local/bin/python /export/home/
 0 S root 20397 20373   0  40 20?   1294? 05:18:16
pts/12  0:00 grep -i correo

[root@stargate-host /]# dtrace -n 'python1371:::function-entry
{jstack();}'

  5   3164 PyEval_EvalFrameEx:function-entry
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x89a
[ /usr/local/lib/python2.7/logging/__init__.py:1332
(isEnabledFor) ]
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x6231
[ /usr/local/lib/python2.7/logging/__init__.py:1202
(log) ]
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalCodeEx+0x7b4
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x59ae
[ /home/correo/durus/connection.py:483 (shrink) ]
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x6231
[ /home/correo/durus/connection.py:225 (shrink_cache) ]
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x6231
[ /home/correo/durus/connection.py:303 (commit2) ]
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x6231
[ /home/correo/durus/connection.py:261 (commit) ]
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x6231
[ /export/home/correo/lmtp.py:191 (_monitor) ]
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalCodeEx+0x7b4
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x59ae
[ /export/home/correo/lmtp.py:125 (process_vacation2) ]
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalCodeEx+0x7b4
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x59ae
[ /export/home/correo/lmtp.py:138 (process_vacation) ]
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalCodeEx+0x7b4
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`function_call+0x192
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyObject_Call+0x5c
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x2b94
[ /usr/local/lib/python2.7/threading.py: ]
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x6231
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x6231
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalCodeEx+0x7b4
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`function_call+0xa4
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyObject_Call+0x5c
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`instancemethod_call+0xa1
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyObject_Call+0x5c
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords+0x58
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`t_bootstrap+0x52
  libc.so.1`_thr_setup+0x4e
  libc.so.1`_lwp_start

^C
"""

Lets say I want to know about what codepaths are hitting the OS "sync"
features, so I do this:

"""
[root@stargate-host /]# dtrace -n
'syscall::fdsync:entry/pid==1371/{jstack();}'
dtrace: description 'syscall::fdsync:entry' matched 1 probe

CPU IDFUNCTION:NAME
  3  58344 fdsync:entry
  libc.so.1`__fdsync+0x15
  libdb-6.0.so`__os_fsync+0x91
  libdb-6.0.so`__log_flush_int+0x685
  libdb-6.0.so`__log_flush+0x6a
  libdb-6.0.so`__log_flush_pp+0x121
  _pybsddb.so`DBEnv_log_flush+0x39
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x6992
[
/export/home/correo/durus-berkeleydbstorage/berkeleydb_storage.py:918
(flush) ]
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x6231
[ /export/home/correo/lmtp.py:1005 (lmtp2) ]
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x6231
[ /export/home/correo/lmtp.py:763 (lmtp) ]
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalCodeEx+0x7b4
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`function_call+0x192
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyObject_Call+0x5c
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalFrameEx+0x2b94
[ /export/home/correo/lmtp.py:214
(_ignore_socket_errors) ]
  libpython2.7.so.1.0`PyEval_EvalCodeEx+0x7b4
  

Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

[Jesus Cea]

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On 06/09/13 21:34, R. David Murray wrote:
> Note that I said that single signon *itself* was overrated.  If you
> use the same token to authenticate to multiple sites (and here the
> 'token' is the email address) then your identities on those sites
> are ipso facto associated with each other.  *If* that email address
> is also never leaked (never displayed, even to other signed on
> users, all communication with the site encrypted), then you only
> have to worry if the sites exchange information about their
> accounts, or if the government comes knocking on their doors
> 
> Yes, I'm paranoid.  That doesn't mean they aren't listening.

Being paranoid is good. Fix for this is actually trivial: Use
different emails for different "personalities".

If you are doing things you really NEED to hide, virtual machines and
TOR is the way to go.

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[Python-Dev] sys.intern should work on bytes

[Jesus Cea]

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"""
sys.intern(b'12121212')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: must be str, not bytes
"""

I wonder why.

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Re: [Python-Dev] sys.intern should work on bytes

[Jesus Cea]

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On 20/09/13 14:04, Victor Stinner wrote:
> What would you be the use case of interned bytes objets?

Performance and memory. Pickle sizes (my particular issue now).

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Re: [Python-Dev] sys.intern should work on bytes

[Jesus Cea]

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On 20/09/13 14:15, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> From http://docs.python.org/3.3/library/sys.html#sys.intern
> 
> """sys.intern(string)
> 
> Enter string in the table of “interned” strings and return the 
> interned string [...]"""
> 
> 
> In Python 3 context, "string" means "str".

I read that, Antoine. In fact I read the manual, I thought it was a
mistake carried over from 2.x documentation, I tried it just in case
before reporting the "documentation mistake", and I was surprised it
was actually true :-).

I know that intern is used for performance reasons internally to the
interpreter. But I am thinking about memory usage optimizations. For
instance, I have a pickle that is 14MB in size, when "interning" the
strings on it (there are a lot of redundancy), the new size is only
3MB and it loads faster. I can do it because most data in the pickle
are strings, I could NOT do it if I used bytes.

I could do a manual "intern" for hashable objects by hand using an
"object:object" dictionary (that would work for integers too), but I
wonder if extending builtin "sys.intern" would be something to consider.

Anyway, this pattern is easy enough:

Instead of

  object = sys.intern(object)

I could do

  interned = dict()
  ...
  object = interned.setdefault(object, object)

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Re: [Python-Dev] sys.intern should work on bytes

[Jesus Cea]

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On 20/09/13 15:31, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> sys.intern is an internal interpreter optimization and should be 
> orthogonal to pickling. If pickle can't detect already-seen bytes 
> object, then you may file an improvement request on the bug
> tracker.

Understood. Thanks for the clarification.

Pickle manage correctly "same object" references, but not "different
objects but equivalent". That is the issue. But for most uses this is
not a problem, and implementing this redundance removal looks like a
performance cost that few users would benefice from, but everybody
pays. Pickle is already slow enough now :).

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[Python-Dev] dict.setdefault(object, object) instead of "sys.intern()" (was Re: sys.intern should work on bytes)

[Jesus Cea]

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On 20/09/13 15:33, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> Well, the pickler should memoize bytes objects if you have lots of
> the same one in a pickle...

Only if they are the very same object. Not diferent bytes objects with
the same value. Pickle doesn't do "a==b" but "id(a)==id(b)".

Yes, I know that "a==b" would break mutable objects. It is just an
example.

I don't want to pursue that path. Performance of pickle is already
appallingly slow.

In my project, I will do the redundancy removal on my own way, as
explained in ither message on this thread.

Example:

* Original pickle: 14416284 bytes

* Pickle with "interned" strings: 3004880 bytes
(quite an improvement, but this is particular to my case, I have a lot
of string duplications here. The pickle also loads a bit faster)

* Pickle including an extra dictionary of "interned" strings, created
using the "interned.setdefault(object,object)" pattern: 5126587 bytes.
Sniff.

Could I do this more compactly?.


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Re: [Python-Dev] sys.intern should work on bytes

[Jesus Cea]

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On 20/09/13 15:44, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

> Yes. The main difference is that sys.intern() will remove the
> interned strings when every external reference vanishes. It
> requires either weakref'ability (which both str and bytes lack) or
> special cooperation from the object destructor (which is why
> sys.intern() is restricted to str instead of working with arbitrary
> objects).

Great comment. Thanks.

Why str/bytes doesn't support weakrefs, beside memory use?

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Re: [Python-Dev] OpenIndiana and Solaris support

[Jesus Cea]

On 08/02/17 11:24, Victor Stinner wrote:
> So I suggest to drop official Solaris support, but I don't propose to
> remove the C code specific to Solaris. In practice, I suggest to
> remove Solaris and OpenIndiana buildbots since they are broken for
> months and are more annoying than useful.

Give me a week to move this forward. Last hope.


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Re: [Python-Dev] OpenIndiana and Solaris support

[Jesus Cea]

On 08/02/17 11:24, Victor Stinner wrote:
> So I suggest to drop official Solaris support, but I don't propose to
> remove the C code specific to Solaris. In practice, I suggest to
> remove Solaris and OpenIndiana buildbots since they are broken for
> months and are more annoying than useful.

The main issue is that something wrong is going on with buildbot. From
time to time, it eats gigabytes of RAM (last time, 64GB) and kills the
machine. maybe once per week. This is not very welcomed by my host and
his reaction is to shutdown the solaris "zone" because we don't "behave"
and this is impacting production system.

I am trying to convince him to launch buildbot process tree with an
"ulimit" to protect the machine. Lets see.

Sorry. Thanks for your patience.

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Re: [Python-Dev] OpenIndiana and Solaris support

[Jesus Cea]

On 08/02/17 16:18, Jesus Cea wrote:
> I am trying to convince him to launch buildbot process tree with an
> "ulimit" to protect the machine. Lets see.
> 
> Sorry. Thanks for your patience.

I am launching now the buildbot with a limit of 1GB *PER PROCESS*. At
least, when the memory skyrockets it will die without impacting the rest
of the machine. Unless it does a fork-bomb...

Backlog is huge. That will be useful to stress the buildbot and,
hopefuly, make it fails faster.

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Re: [Python-Dev] OpenIndiana and Solaris support

[Jesus Cea]

On 08/02/17 17:06, Jesus Cea wrote:
> On 08/02/17 16:18, Jesus Cea wrote:
>> I am trying to convince him to launch buildbot process tree with an
>> "ulimit" to protect the machine. Lets see.
>>
>> Sorry. Thanks for your patience.
> 
> I am launching now the buildbot with a limit of 1GB *PER PROCESS*. At
> least, when the memory skyrockets it will die without impacting the rest
> of the machine. Unless it does a fork-bomb...
> 
> Backlog is huge. That will be useful to stress the buildbot and,
> hopefuly, make it fails faster.

Checking the mailing list archives, I am seen Openindiana buildbot
memory issues since 2011, at least.
<https://mail.python.org/pipermail//python-dev/2011-September/113532.html>.
It was never triaged.

I am getting mercurial errors because some incompatibility with current
release
<http://buildbot.python.org/all/builders/x86%20OpenIndiana%203.5/builds/79/steps/touch/logs/stdio>.
Since we are moving to github in a couple of days, I will wait until
that time to keep pursuing this.

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[Python-Dev] Riddle: Funny decorator chaining behaviour

[Jesus Cea]

Chatting in a Spanish python podcast about how convenient would be for 
abstract classes to raise exceptions intermediately instead of at 
instantiation time (how could you create an abstract class in that 
case?), somebody produced this code:


import abc

class a(abc.ABC):
  @classmethod
  @property
  @abc.abstractmethod
  def x(cls):
print("Hello world")

class b(a):
  def x(*args):
pass

(NOTHING happens, the abstract method/property is overriden)

class c(a):
  pass

"HELLO WORLD" is printed, creating the class (not instanciating an 
object of that type but creating the class itself), because the abstract 
method/property is not overriden.


Note that the method is called at class creation time.

if you replace the body of "x" method with a "raise NotImplementedError" 
you can produce that exception at import time, if some class remains 
abstract.


This is an interesting interaction between decorators trying to be 
clever supporting both regular and abstract methods/properties.


Trying to figure out how it worked took some time and python source code 
diving. I think this is interesting enough to share.


I don't think this is a bug to solve, just some brain teasing. I let 
other to decide what to do with this... collateral effect.


Let me know what do you think after trying to understand how it works.

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Re: [Python-Dev] And the winner is...

[Jesus Cea]

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Guido van Rossum wrote:
> The decision is made! I've selected a DVCS to use for Python. We're
> switching to Mercurial (Hg).

Bravo.

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[Python-Dev] ¿Nueva reunión mensual en Madrid ?

[Jesus Cea]

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Va tocando hacer una nueva reunión mensual en Madrid. ¿Propuestas de
fecha y lugar?.

La última vez estuvo bastante bien, aunque éramos poquitos. ¿Hacemos
otra a la vuelta de semana santa?.

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Re: [Python-Dev] ¿Nueva reunión mensual en Madrid ?

[Jesus Cea]

Excuse me. Wrong mailing list.
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[Python-Dev] [Fwd: [issue6397] Implementing Solaris "poll" in the "select" module]

[Jesus Cea]

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--- Begin Message ---

New submission from Jesús Cea Avión :

In Python 2.6 we added support for Linux "epoll" and *BSD "kqueue" in
the select module. I think we should add support for Solaris "poll"
interface too.

What do you think?.

I volunteer to do the work, if you agree this is a feature we want to
have. I think so.

--
assignee: jcea
components: Library (Lib)
messages: 89989
nosy: jcea
severity: normal
stage: needs patch
status: open
title: Implementing Solaris "poll" in the "select" module
type: feature request
versions: Python 2.7, Python 3.2

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<http://bugs.python.org/issue6397>
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Fwd: [issue6397] Implementing Solaris "poll" in the "select" module]

[Jesus Cea]

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Alexandre Vassalotti wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> The select module already supports the poll() system call. Or is there
>> a special variant that only Solaris has?
>>
> 
> I think Jesus refers to /dev/poll—i.e., the interface for
> edge-triggered polling on Solaris. This is the Solaris equivalent of
> FreeBSD's kqueue and Linux's epoll.

Yes. In python 2.6, Linux and *BSD benefice of access to high performing
"poll"-like interfaces, non portable. Solaris has "/dev/poll" too, so we
can provide another non-portable interface :). In fact I think it could
be interesting to investigate the direct use of "/dev/poll" in Solaris
under "select.poll" implementation, if available, in a transparent way.
With this could be possible to improve efficiency without adding another
non-portable interface.

But before investigating options, I want to know if there is interest on
it. I think so, because Solaris/OpenSolaris is an important platform, I
will take care of the code, and we already have non-portable interfaces:
"select.epoll" for Linux and "select.kqueue" for *BSD.

- --
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Re: [Python-Dev] Why is nan != nan?

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/25/2010 07:54 AM, Georg Brandl wrote:
>>>>>> float('nan') in [float('nan')]
>>> False
>>
>> Sure, but just think of it as having two different nans there.  (You
>> could imagine thinking of the id of the nan as part of the payload.)
> 
> That's interesting.  Thinking of each value created by float('nan') as
> a different nan makes sense to my naive mind, and it also explains
> nicely the behavior present right now.  Each nan comes from a different
> operation and therefore is a "different" non-number.

Infinites are "not equal" for a good reason, for example.

1/0 and 2/0 are both infinites, but one is "greater" than the other. Or
(1/0)^(1/0), an infinite infinitelly "bigger".

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Re: [Python-Dev] Why is nan != nan?

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/25/2010 12:22 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>   "Not a Number" is not a single floating point value. Instead each
>   instance is a distinct value representing the precise conditions that
>   created it. Thus, two "NaN" values x and y will compare equal iff they
>   are the exact same NaN object (i.e. "if isnan(x) then x == y iff
>   x is y".
> 
> As stated above, such a change would allow us to restore reflexivity
> (eliminating a bunch of weirdness) while still honouring the idea of NaN
> being a set of values rather than a single value.

Sounds good.

But IEEE 754 was created by pretty clever guys and sure they had a
reason for define things in the way they are. Probably we are missing
something.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Why is nan != nan?

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/25/2010 03:19 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:36:28 pm Jesus Cea wrote:
> 
>> Infinites are "not equal" for a good reason, for example.
>>
>> 1/0 and 2/0 are both infinites, but one is "greater" than the other.
>> Or (1/0)^(1/0), an infinite infinitelly "bigger".
> 
> 
> I think you're mistaken. In Python 3.1:

I was refering to mathematical infinites and why inf!=inf is sensible
and a natural consequence calculus and limits (mathematically).

In any case, I am an engineer, not a mathematical or a language designer
:). IANAL.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Why is nan != nan?

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/25/2010 04:07 PM, David Cournapeau wrote:
> Yes, indeed. I don't claim having a deep understanding myself, but up
> to now, everytime I thought something in IEE 754 was weird, it ended
> up being for good reasons.

I was wondering if we could bring the question to news:comp.arch
newsgroup. They have the knowledge, and I know there are people from the
IEEE 754 group lurking there. I only have read-only access, nevertheless.

Another relevant group could be news:comp.arch.arithmetic, but I am not
familiar with it.


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Re: [Python-Dev] Why is nan != nan?

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/26/2010 01:57 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> In fact, identity of NANs is itself an implementation quirk of 
> programming languages like Python: logically, NANs don't have identity 
> at all.
> 
> To put it another way: all ONEs are the same ONE, even if they come from 
> different sources, are in different memory locations, or have different 
> identities; but all NANs are different, even if they come from the same 
> source, are in the same memory location, or have the same identity.

+inf. Bravo!.

:-)

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[Python-Dev] "-Wd" switch

[Jesus Cea]

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Recently we added "-Wd" flags to buildbots. I was wondering about the
effect of it. documentation doesn't help.

I could study the code, but I guess other people can have the very same
question and I think the answer should be in the archives, somewhere.

Thanks.

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[Python-Dev] stdlib socket usage and "keepalive"

[Jesus Cea]

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Debugging a strange problem today, I got the following result:

Sockets open by stdlib libraries are open without the "keepalive"
option, so the system default is used. The system default under linux is
"no keepalive".

So, if you are using a URLlib connection, POP3 connection, IMAP
connection, etc., any stdlib that internally creates a socket, and your
server goes away suddendly (you lose network connectivity, by instance),
the library will wait FOREVER for the server. The client can't detect
that the server is not longer available.

The "keepalive" option will send a probe packed every X minutes of
inactivity, to check if the other side is still alive, even if the
connection is idle.

The issue is bad, but the solution is simple enough. Options:

1. All "client" libraries should create sockets with the "KEEPALIVE" option.

2. Modify the socket C module to create all sockets as "Keepalive" by
default.

3. To have a global variable in the socket module to change the default
for future sockets. Something like current "socket.setdefaulttimeout()".
The default should be "keepalive".

4. Modify client libraries to accept a new optional socket-like object
as an optional parameter. This would allow things like transparent
compression or encryption, or to replace the socket connection by
anything else (read/write to shared memory or database, for example).

This is an issue in Linux because by default the sockets are not
"keepalive". In other Unix systems, the default is "keepalive". I don't
know about MS Windows.

What do you think?. The solution seems trivial, after deciding the right
way to go.

PS: "socket.setdefaulttimeout()" is not enough, because it could
shutdown a perfectly functional connection, just because it was idle for
too long.

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Re: [Python-Dev] stdlib socket usage and "keepalive"

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/13/2010 12:09 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Are you sure about this? ISTM that in most cases when a server goes
> away unexpectedly the local host will discover this when it next tries
> to use the socket. Also I recall reading that keepalives are a very
> controversial concept (since they may actually break connections
> unnecessarily if the internet merely has a hiccup).

The case is this:

1. The client does a request. Wait "read"ing the answer.

2. The request is "slow", so the server "acks" the TCP datagram and
start to process the request.

3. Now the connection is idle. The server is working and the client is
waiting, blocked in the socket "read()".

4. Now you switch off the server (or unplug the ethernet wire).

5. If the client kernel is not doing "keepalive", the client will be
blocked FOREVER (days), waiting for the reply. If the client uses
"keepalive", its kernel will send a probe after a while (30 minutes, for
instance), the probe will fail, and the kernel will shutdown the
connection. The problem is: linux doesn't uses KEEPALIVE by default.

I have validated this behaviour with Ubuntu 9.10 and a network sniffer.

About controversial... keepalive are usually sent only when the
connection is 100% idle for a while, when "while" can be >15 minutes, so
the load should be "none" for regular connections.

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Re: [Python-Dev] stdlib socket usage and "keepalive"

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/13/2010 12:09 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Also I recall reading that keepalives are a very
> controversial concept (since they may actually break connections
> unnecessarily if the internet merely has a hiccup).

That is true, but parameters are usually very conservative.

In standard Ubuntu box I host out there, the (default) parameters used
(if I activate keepalive):

+ Send the keepalive only after 1800 seconds of complete connection
inactivity.

+ After starting sending keepalives, send NINE probes.

+ Between probes, wait at least 75 seconds.

So you have to have 30 minutes of idle and then at least 11 minutes of
no conectivity to "lose" the connection.

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Re: [Python-Dev] stdlib socket usage and "keepalive"

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/13/2010 12:59 AM, Daniel Stutzbach wrote:
> Most non-trivial applications use select() or poll() to avoid blocking
> calls and do their own timeout-checking at the application layer, so
> they don't need KEEPALIVE.

I am thinking about python stdlibs like imaplib, poplib, smtplib,
ftplib, urllib, etc., etc., ...

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[Python-Dev] Getting an optional parameter instead of creating a socket internally (was: Re: stdlib socket usage and " keepalive" )

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/13/2010 12:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Jesus Cea  jcea.es> writes:
>>
>> PS: "socket.setdefaulttimeout()" is not enough, because it could
>> shutdown a perfectly functional connection, just because it was idle for
>> too long.
> 
> The socket timeout doesn't shutdown anything. It just puts a limit on how much
> time recv() and send() can block. Then it's up to you to detect whether the
> server is still alive (for example by pinging it through whatever means the
> application protocol gives you).

A regular standard library (let say, poplib) would abort, after getting
the timeout exception.

>> 4. Modify client libraries to accept a new optional socket-like object
>> as an optional parameter. This would allow things like transparent
>> compression or encryption, or to replace the socket connection by
>> anything else (read/write to shared memory or database, for example).
> 
> This could be useful too.

I have been thinking about this for years. Do you actually think this
could be formally proposed?.

What bugs me is that the socket creation is deep inside the stdlibs. You
can not control it easily (I have overloaded socket.socket() in the past
for controlling the number of concurrent connections to servers, for
instance, or providing encryption), and it is difficult to test.

If these stdlib methods could accept an optional parameter instead of
creating the socket internally, test is trivial, and you can reuse the
lib to access the service via an arbitrary object (this weekend I just
tunneled TCP/IP via DNS requests/answers, shame on you, airport wifi
hotspots!).

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[Python-Dev] Should we drop active support of OSF/1?

[Jesus Cea]

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We don't have any buildbot backing this system.

OSF/1 last version was in 1994, was picked by Digital (Tru64 Unix). Last
version of Tru64 was released in late 2006. Now Digital is owned by HP
with its own Unix (HP-UX).

Maybe we can drop OSF/1 safely supporting Tru64 yet, but we don't have
any buildbot running any of this systems...

Deprecated systems are documented in PEP-11.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Anyone can do patch reviews

[Jesus Cea]

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On 27/04/10 17:16, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> It would be kind of cool if there were some best practices for running said
> unittest both with and without the patch enabled.  Kind of like using #ifdefs
> in C but without all the commenting-out-commenting-in error proneness.  I
> guess you could do something like

Mercurial queues are very useful here. You apply/deapply patches with a
single command:

<http://hgbook.red-bean.com/read/managing-change-with-mercurial-queues.html>

I am using python SVN mercurial mirror and MQ (Mercurial Queues) for
development, waiting for the "real thing" (Mercurial native working).

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Re: [Python-Dev] Should we drop active support of OSF/1?

[Jesus Cea]

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On 26/04/10 22:00, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> Maybe we can drop OSF/1 safely supporting Tru64 yet, but we don't have
>> any buildbot running any of this systems...
> 
> Dropping support is fine with me, in the long term. If PEP 11 is truly
> followed, we should deprecate support in one version, and drop it in the
> next one. This would mean we add a easy-to-remove configure error in
> 3.2, and remove the support in 3.3.

Would be enough to raise an "ERROR" at configure time if OSF test is
positive?. To delete that intentional "ERROR" would be trivial.

In 3.3 I would remove the configure tests and the "#if" conditional
compilation related to them.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Should we drop active support of OSF/1?

[Jesus Cea]

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On 03/05/10 21:55, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> Just to rephrase: the point of this deprecation cycle is to give users a
> chance to take over maintenance, and to declare, in public, that they
> are interested in that port. If nobody steps forward, we can safely
> assume that nobody cares.

http://bugs.python.org/issue8606 . I will take care of the final cleanup
in 3.3, if nobody stands up to keep OSF* alive.

I am deprecating OSF*. If it is "too much", we can change it to "OSF1".

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[Python-Dev] HEADS UP: Compilation risk with new GCC 4.5.0

[Jesus Cea]

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[Zlib-devel] HEADS UP: Apparent bad compilation under (just released)
GCC 4.5.0
<http://mail.madler.net/pipermail/zlib-devel_madler.net/2010-May/002267.html>

GCC Bugzilla Bug 40838
gcc shouldn't assume that the stack is aligned
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=40838


Short history: new GCC 4.5.0 (released a month ago), when compiling with
- -O3, is adding MMX/SSE instructions that requires stack aligned to 16
byte. This is wrong, since x86 ABI only requires stack aligned to 4 bytes.

If you compile EVERYTHING with GCC 4.5.0, you are safe (I guess!), but
if your environment has mixed compiled code (for instance, the OS
libraries), you can possibly "core dump". If you have an old compiled
Python and you update libs compiled with GCC 4.5.0, you can crash in the
process.

Psyco is showing the issue, but it is not the culprit.  It only leaves
- -correctly- the stack in not 16-byte alignment. But there are plenty of
examples of crashes not related to python+psyco.

Proposal: add "-fno-tree-vectorize" to compilation options for 2.7/3.2.
Warm 2.3/2.4/2.5/2.6/3.0/3.1 users. Or warm users compiling with GCC 4.5.0.

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Re: [Python-Dev] HEADS UP: Compilation risk with new GCC 4.5.0

[Jesus Cea]

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On 12/05/10 15:32, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Jesus Cea wrote:
>> Proposal: add "-fno-tree-vectorize" to compilation options for 2.7/3.2.
> 
> Will this actually help? Won't there still be a problem if any extension
> module is compiled with GCC 4.5.0 without that option, regardless of the
> options used to build Python itself?

When I do a "python setup.py install", the options used to compile the
module are the same that used to compile python itself.

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Re: [Python-Dev] HEADS UP: Compilation risk with new GCC 4.5.0

[Jesus Cea]

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On 12/05/10 15:39, James Y Knight wrote:
> While assuming the stack is 16byte aligned is undeniably an
> ABI-violation in GCC, at this point, it's surely simpler to just go
> along: the new unofficial ABI for x86 is that the stack must always be
> left in 16-byte alignment...

You can not rule out other software embedding python inside, or
callbacks from foreign code. For instance, Berkeley DB library can do
callbacks to Python code.

> So, just change psyco to always use 16-byte-aligned stackframes. GCC has
> used 16byte-aligned stackframes for a heck of a long time now (so if the
> stack starts 16byte aligned on entry to a function it will stay that way
> on calls). So usually the only way people run into unaligned stacks is
> via hand-written assembly code or JIT compilers.

Not all the universe is GCC based. For instance, Solaris system
libraries are not compiled using GCC. The world is bigger that Linux/GCC.

> I think you'll be a lot happier just modifying Psyco than making
> everyone else in the world change their compiler flags.

Would be nice if GCC 4.5.1 would solve this :). They are objectivelly
breaking the x86 ABI.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Getting an optional parameter instead of creating a socket internally

[Jesus Cea]

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On 13/04/10 04:03, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 12 Apr, 11:19 pm, j...@jcea.es wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 04/13/2010 12:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>>> Jesus Cea  jcea.es> writes:
>>>>
>>>> PS: "socket.setdefaulttimeout()" is not enough, because it could
>>>> shutdown a perfectly functional connection, just because it was idle
>>>> for
>>>> too long.
>>>
>>> The socket timeout doesn't shutdown anything. It just puts a limit on
>>> how much
>>> time recv() and send() can block. Then it's up to you to detect
>>> whether the
>>> server is still alive (for example by pinging it through whatever
>>> means the
>>> application protocol gives you).
>>
>> A regular standard library (let say, poplib) would abort, after getting
>> the timeout exception.
>>>> 4. Modify client libraries to accept a new optional socket-like object
>>>> as an optional parameter. This would allow things like transparent
>>>> compression or encryption, or to replace the socket connection by
>>>> anything else (read/write to shared memory or database, for example).
>>>
>>> This could be useful too.
>>
>> I have been thinking about this for years. Do you actually think this
>> could be formally proposed?.
> 
> Every once in a while I make a little bit more progress on the PEP I'm
> working on for this.  If you want to talk more about this, you can find
> me in #python-dev or #twisted on freenode.
> 
> Jean-Paul

Jean-Paul, I would like to have this for 3.2. How is the PEP going?.

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[Python-Dev] Pronouncement needed in issue9675

[Jesus Cea]

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http://bugs.python.org/issue9675

Long history sort: Python 2.7 backported Capsule support and
(incorrectly, in my opinion) marked CObject as deprecated.

All C modules in the stdlib were updated to Capsule (with a CObject
compatibility layer), except BSDDB, because this change was done late in
the cycle, the proposed patch was buggy (solvable) and a pronouncement
was done that CObject was not actually deprecated.

But in python 2.7 release, CObject is marked as deprecated (arg!), so
when executing python with -We (mark warnings as errors), bsddb fails.

Since I think that adopting Capsule in BSDDB for 2.7.1 would break the
API compatibility (maybe the CObject proxy would solve this), and since
a previous pronouncement was done abour CObject not-deprecated in 2.7.x,
I would like comments.

Long history and links to previous pronouncements in
http://bugs.python.org/issue9675

My proposal: CObject should not be marked as deprecated in 2.7.1.

Thanks for your time and attention.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Pronouncement needed in issue9675

[Jesus Cea]

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On 29/09/10 00:56, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
>  wrote:
>> 2010/9/28 Nick Coghlan :
>>> Converting to a Py3k warning sounds like the best option.
>>
>> Can someone please explain why converting to a PyCapsule object is not
>> an option?
>> PyCObject_AsVoidPtr() and PyCObject_Import() accept Capsules and will
>> work as before.
> 
> Because bsddb is an external module?

Uhm?. I am confused...

The reason to rollback the deprecation warning is because it is breaking
other external modules too, see a previous post. Since there is no 2.8
planned, a deprecation warning is not useful. See the thread linked in
the tracker.

About converting the deprecation warning to a py3k warning... Would a
py3k warning be converted to an error when python is invoked as "-We"?.
If that is the case, we are in the same situation.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Pronouncement needed in issue9675

[Jesus Cea]

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On 29/09/10 01:06, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>> Because bsddb is an external module?
>>
>> Yes, bsddb is compiled in a separate .pyd or .so. But what does this change?
> 
> Because it needs to support multiple Python versions from single source?

Well, that is my problem, no python-dev :-).

I am replying in the mailing list only. It takes a while to propagate.

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[Python-Dev] Catching exceptions and convert them to warnings in C level code (was: Re: Pronouncement needed in issue9675)

[Jesus Cea]

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On 28/09/10 18:00, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> By "fails" you mean "crashes the interpreter".
> While the deprecation warning can be discussed, bsddb shouldn't crash
> when PyCObject_FromVoidPtr() returns NULL, but instead bail out
> cleanly (or perhaps even ignore the error and simply display a warning
> that the C API won't be available).

I plan to deploy two patches for this issue. One, bsddb surviving the
warning->error flag. The other, changing the deprecation warning in
"CObject" to a py3k warning.

While doing this, I think would be useful if bsddb could intercept the
exception and provide sensible feedback without raising an exception at
import time. I have checked
<http://docs.python.org/c-api/exceptions.html>. "PyErr_Fetch" is a bit
overkill, it seems.

My idea is to convert the CObject exception in bsddb to print a warning
like "CObject creation failed. The bsddb.cAPI will be not available.
Reason is: ".

Is there a "canonical way" of doing this?. Sorry if the answer is trivial...

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Re: [Python-Dev] We should be using a tool for code reviews

[Jesus Cea]

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On 30/09/10 22:41, Brett Cannon wrote:
> Don't see why not, but those of us who use OpenID would need to start
> caring about a password which would be unfortunate.

+1. OpenID or OAuth is a must.

Moreover, I am a bit worried of needing a google account. Google already
knows too much about me, I don't want to navigate with a google cookie
in my browser.

Guido says that Rietveld can run outside of Google. That is not a bad
option. I could host it, I guess, but my server uptime is only around
99.7% (half an hour per week).

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[Python-Dev] Support for async read/write

[Jesus Cea]

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Current Python lacks support for "aio_*" syscalls to do async IO. I
think this could be a nice addition for python 3.3.

If you agree, I will create an issue in the tracker. If you think the
idea is of no value, please say so for me to move on. Maybe an 3th party
module, but I think this functionality sould be available in core python.

Thanks!.

PS: The function calls are: aio_cancel, aio_error, aio_fsync, aio_read,
aio_return, aio_write.

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[Python-Dev] Help with warnings not being raised

[Jesus Cea]

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Hi all. I just committed r86180, but there is something I don't like.

If you read the tests I did (by hand)at
http://bugs.python.org/issue9675#msg120462 , python should show the
unraisable and THEN the "C API unavailable" warning, but it is not
showing the warning.

I don't know why.

I have committed the patch because it solves the original bug, but I am
pretty uncomfy not knowing what Python is not doing exactly what I want...

Any idea?.

Sorry for wasting your time with probably trivial stuff, but I need to
know... :-?

PS: I am using "PyErr_Warn()", that is deprecated, because this code
should work in Python 2.3 too. I tried "PyErr_WarnEx()" too, it didn't
work either.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Help with warnings not being raised

[Jesus Cea]

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On 05/11/10 01:36, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>> I don't know why.
> 
> Are you passing -3 -Wall?

I am passing "-3 -Werror", to induce the error control I have committed.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Python-3 transition in Arch Linux

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/11/10 05:44, Allan McRae wrote:
> The second case was particularly interesting.  These software would
> change some of their #! to point at the python2 symlink and leave the
> rest pointing at python.  Note that python-2.7 itself falls into this
> category as many files in /usr/lib/python2.7 still have "#!/usr/bin/env
> python" even when installed with "make altinstall".  I can not remember
> the exact details, but I recall that some of these files were installed
> with executable permissions which would be bad, but I need to look into
> this again now things have calmed down...

PLEASE, open a bug with this. It is a serious bug. "make altinstall"
*SHOULD* be respected.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Pickle alternative in stdlib (Was: On breaking modules into packages)

[Jesus Cea]

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On 04/11/10 15:57, Alexander Belopolsky wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> ..
>>>> Twisted actually tried to preserve pickle compatibility in the bad old 
>>>> days,
>>>> but it was impossible.  Pickles should never really be saved to disk unless
>>>> they contain nothing but lists, ints, strings, and dicts.
>>
>> But *that* set of types can safely be marshalled using the marshal module...
> 
> Not if the instances contain reference cycles.

Moreover, in the docs the marshall module EXPLICITLY says that the
format is undocumented on purpose, and subject to change. Seems a pretty
bad option for persistence, if you expect to read your data back in the
future.

http://docs.python.org/library/marshal.html

"""
This module contains functions that can read and write Python values in
a binary format. The format is specific to Python, but independent of
machine architecture issues (e.g., you can write a Python value to a
file on a PC, transport the file to a Sun, and read it back there).
Details of the format are undocumented on purpose; it may change between
Python versions (although it rarely does).
"""

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Re: [Python-Dev] Help with warnings not being raised

[Jesus Cea]

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On 05/11/10 13:55, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Under -We, PyErr_Warn raises an exception rather than printing to
> stdout. That exception is clobbered by the immediately following call
> to PyErr_Clear.
> Since you *only* hit that branch under -We in the first place, a
> second call to PyErr_WriteUnraisable should get the error to actually
> print out.

Excellent explanation, Nick. Thanks.

Patched in r86317. Up-ported to upcoming pybsddb 5.1.1.

PS: Bugs.python.org is still down.

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Re: [Python-Dev] bugs.python.org migration

[Jesus Cea]

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On 09/11/10 22:17, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> bugs.python.org is moving to a new hardware; this also involves a new IP
> address. The migration will happen on Thursday, likely around 8:00 UTC.
> If all goes well, outage should be very short.

Seems to be offline now. I get timeouts.

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Re: [Python-Dev] bugs.python.org migration

[Jesus Cea]

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On 10/11/10 22:19, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Nov 10, 2010, at 12:34 PM, Jesus Cea wrote:
>> Seems to be offline now. I get timeouts.
> 
> I just had no problems updating issue 9807.

That was 10 hours after my message :-).

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[Python-Dev] Mercurial Schedule

[Jesus Cea]

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Is there any updated mercurial schedule?.

Any impact related with the new 3.2 schedule (three weeks offset)?

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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial Schedule

[Jesus Cea]

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On 17/11/10 08:18, Georg Brandl wrote:
> Am 16.11.2010 19:38, schrieb Jesus Cea:
>> Is there any updated mercurial schedule?.
>>
>> Any impact related with the new 3.2 schedule (three weeks offset)?
> 
> I've been trying to contact Dirkjan and ask; generally, I don't
> see much connection to the 3.2 schedule (with the exception that
> the final migration day should not be a release day.)

I can't find the mail now, but I remember that months ago the Mercurial
migration schedule was mid-december. I wonder if there is any update.

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[Python-Dev] I need help with IO testuite

[Jesus Cea]

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Hi all. I am modifying IO module for Python 3.2, and I am unable to
understand the mechanism used in IO testsuite to test both the C and the
Python implementation.

In particular I need to test that the implementation passes some
parameters to the OS.

The module uses "Mock" classes, but I think "Mock" is something else,
and I don't see how it interpose between the C/Python code and the OS.

If somebody could explain the mechanism a bit...

Thanks for your time and attention.

Some background: http://bugs.python.org/issue10142

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[Python-Dev] Help deploying a new buildbot running OpenIndiana/x86

[Jesus Cea]

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Hi, everybody.

I am glad to say I am installing an OpenIndiana zone (Openindiana is a
fork of Indiana, a distribution of OpenSolaris) with the aim to be a
buildbot for python development.

This machine has plenty of disk (even SSD!), CPU and memory for the task.

I am reading http://wiki.python.org/moin/BuildBot . I have installed
buildbotslave already, but I need passwords, etc., to link to python
buildbot infraestructure.

The machine is behind a NAT system, so any incoming connection will need
to be documented and a port mapping request to be done.

So, after installing buildbotslave, what is the next step?.

Thanks to OpenIndiana staff, specially Alasdair Lumsden, for providing
the physical resources for this attempt.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Help deploying a new buildbot running OpenIndiana/x86

[Jesus Cea]

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On 17/11/10 17:23, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> There is no incoming connection; however, a bunch of outgoing
> connections are made to various hosts by various tests, so it's better
> if there's no overzealous firewall in-between.

I know that, just confirming.

"""
You'll need to get someone to create the slavename/slavepasswd on
dinsdale.python.org before doing this. Talk to someone like Antoine
Pitrou, Martin von Löwis, Anthony or Neal Norwitz to do this.
#python-dev on freenode is a good place to ask.
"""

¿Could you provide the connection credential?. I rather prefer to skip
the IRC (I am a XMPP guy), but I can connect to freenode if you need it.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Help deploying a new buildbot running OpenIndiana/x86

[Jesus Cea]

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On 17/11/10 18:10, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>>
>> ¿Could you provide the connection credential?. I rather prefer to skip
>> the IRC (I am a XMPP guy), but I can connect to freenode if you need it.
> 
> I've already sent you a private e-mail.

OK. Sorry. My mail greylist is probably involved. Lets wait for another
hour...

Thanks for your time, Antoine.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial Schedule

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On 18/11/10 18:32, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> In general, I'm *also* concerned about the lack of volunteers that
> are interested in working on the infrastructure. I wish some of the
> people who stated that they can't wait for the migration to happen
> would work on solving some of the remaining problems.

Do we have a exhaustive list of mercurial "to do" things?.

I thought the plan was to keep a read only SVN mirror fedded from
mercurial. The 3.2 build could come from the mirror, I guess.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial Schedule

[Jesus Cea]

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What is the impact in the buildbot architecture?. Slaves must do
anything?. At least they need to have mercurial installed, I guess.

What, as a buildslave manager, must I do to ready my server for the
migration?.

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[Python-Dev] Solaris family and 64 bits compiling

[Jesus Cea]

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A Solaris installation contains ALWAYS 32 and 64 bits libraries. So in
any Solaris you can run 32/64 bits programs, and compile in 32 and 64 bits.

For this, libraries are stores in "/usr/lib", for instance, for 32 bits,
while the same 64 bits libraries are stored in "/usr/lib/64".

Currently, python do not considerate this.

We have Solaris 10 buildslaves, but they compile in 32 bits, aparently.
For instance
<http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/all/builders/sparc%20solaris10%20gcc%203.x/builds/2163/steps/configure/logs/stdio>.

We now have 32 and 64 bits OpenIndiana buildslaves, so we can actually
check this. They were deployed yesterday.

Apparently the changes would be pretty simple, adding ".../64" to
library paths, to try to find the extra libraries.

What do you think?.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Solaris family and 64 bits compiling

[Jesus Cea]

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On 22/11/10 20:12, Brett Cannon wrote:
> Are you asking about buildbots only or as a general policy? If you are
> asking about the buildbots then I definitely think we should use 64
> bits. If you are asking about policy I would say it should be an
> option in case people are using C extensions that are not designed to
> work with 64 bits.

The point is that building python in 64 bits under Solaris (family) is
not easy, because the 64 bits libraries (zlib, openssl, berkeley db,
curses, etc., etc., etc) are not is "/usr/lib", "/usr/local/lib", etc.,
but "/usr/lib/64", "/usr/local/lib/64", etc.

Solaris overcomes most of the issue having separate library searchpath
in 32 and 64 bits (via the "crle" command). But in some cases python try
to find some library in "/usr/local/lib", and my point is that it should
search TOO inside "/usr/local/lib/64".

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Re: [Python-Dev] Solaris family and 64 bits compiling

[Jesus Cea]

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On 22/11/10 20:42, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> Before enabling anything on a build slave, a patch needs to be
> contributed to make it work in the first place.

I actually agree. I am not sure yet, but I am thinking that adding a
"--build-64" parameter to "configure" could be an option under Solaris.
Most OSs (let say, Linux) force you to choose 32/64 bits at install
time, but Solaris can use both at the same time, and compilers allow to
compile both (using -m32 or -m64).

Since choosing 32 or 64 bits when compiling python under Solaris change
the requirement, paths, etc., automating it should be a goal.

PS: Martin, is there any reason to restrict the solaris 10 buildslaves
to 32 bits, beside the said problems?.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Solaris family and 64 bits compiling

[Jesus Cea]

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On 22/11/10 23:05, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> PS: Martin, is there any reason to restrict the solaris 10 buildslaves
>> to 32 bits, beside the said problems?.
> 
> I don't see that as a restriction. I have to make a choice, and there
> are sooo many choices to make:
> - gcc vs. SunPRO
> - 32-bit vs. 64-bit
> - GNU make vs. /usr/ccs/bin/make
> 
> I picked the combination which was most easy to setup, and is therefore
> likely to be used by most users (except for those who think 64-bit
> is somehow "better" than 32-bit, when it is actually the other way
> 'round - IMO).

Do not think this is a personal attack. Not at all. I am deploying 32
and 64 bits buildslaves (in the same machine) and feeling the pain. You
are far more experiences than me with buildbots and python. I want to
know if I am missing something.

> As for configuration, I personally prefer that setting CC indicates
> what type of build you want. Set CC to "gcc -m64" to indicate a
> 64-build. Ideally, you will *not* have to adjust library paths, since
> the other compiler will know on its own where to search things.

The problem is not with system library paths. Compilers overcome that.
The problem is with things like "/usr/local/lib" and hardcoded library
paths in Python.

For example, checking
<http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/all/builders/AMD64%20OpenIndiana%203.x/builds/8/steps/test/logs/stdio>:

"""
gcc -shared -m64
build/temp.solaris-2.11-i86pc-3.2-pydebug/export/home/buildbot/64bits/3.x.cea-indiana-amd64/build/Modules/readline.o
- -L/usr/lib/termcap -L/usr/local/lib -lreadline -lncursesw -o
build/lib.solaris-2.11-i86pc-3.2-pydebug/readline.so
ld: fatal: file /usr/local/lib/libncursesw.so: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32
ld: fatal: file processing errors. No output written to
build/lib.solaris-2.11-i86pc-3.2-pydebug/readline.so
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
"""

The "-L/usr/local/lib" should be "-L/usr/local/lib/64". An example of many.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Solaris family and 64 bits compiling

[Jesus Cea]

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I think this is probably trivial, but is there any foolproof way to
detect 64 bit builds in python, beside "sys.maxint"?.

And any macro useable for conditional compilation in C?.

Checking Solaris 10 header files, I see macros like "_LP64". Portability
would be nice, but in this personal case, probably unneeded...

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Re: [Python-Dev] Solaris family and 64 bits compiling

[Jesus Cea]

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On 23/11/10 01:05, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> No offense taken. If you really want to know the historical background:
> this was the very first build slave (before I actually announced it to
> python-dev), and I haven't changed much from the initial setup.

I do really want to know. I love trivia :-). Thanks.

> I just point out that none of the binaries in /usr/bin is a 64-bit
> binary; this includes the Sun-provided /usr/sfw/bin/python
> 
>> The "-L/usr/local/lib" should be "-L/usr/local/lib/64". An example of many.
> 
> Is that really the case? I.e. will ncurses automatically install into
> /usr/local/lib/64 if built with a 64-bit compiler? My installation
> doesn't even have a /usr/local/lib/64 folder.

A fresh Solaris 10 install doesn't even have a "/usr/local" directory :).

Sadly today most Open Source code is written like if Linux were the only
Unix system out there.

I was amazed that OpenSSL 1.0 installs automatically in
"/usr/local/ssl/lib" when compiled in 32 bits, and in
"/usr/local/ssl/lib/64" when compiled in 64 bits. I almost cry.

> In any case: this shouldn't need a configure option. Instead, Python can
> find out itself whether it's a 64-bit build, and make modifications
> it considers necessary.

I agree. Python should detect it automatically and update the paths when
compiling.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Solaris family and 64 bits compiling

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On 23/11/10 01:05, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> I just point out that none of the binaries in /usr/bin is a 64-bit
> binary; this includes the Sun-provided /usr/sfw/bin/python

True. This is for simplicity reasons (provide only one binary valid for
32 and 64 bits CPUs) and because 64 bits is overkill for a lot of stuff.

In my own system my only 64 bits libraries are OpenSSL, GMP, and some
multimedia stuff like mencoder, vorbis, etc, where the difference is big.

And the GCC 4.5.x install, that installs libraries (fortran, stdc++,
objective C, etc) automatically under "/usr/local/lib/64". GOOD.

But if we say the Python can be compiled as 64 bits under Solaris, would
be nice if that was actually true. Now that we have a buildbot (under
OpenIndiana) to test, it is doable.

If not, we could say that Solaris+64 bits is unsupported. I don't think
we should go that way. Solaris+64 bits should be a full citizen.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Solaris family and 64 bits compiling

[Jesus Cea]

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On 23/11/10 07:55, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> >> But if we say the Python can be compiled as 64 bits under Solaris,
would
>> >> be nice if that was actually true. Now that we have a buildbot (under
>> >> OpenIndiana) to test, it is doable.
> >
> > But it is true, and always has been true. The lib/64 issue did not
> > prevent one building Python on Solaris/SPARC64 at all, including the
> > extension modules. Just edit Modules/Setup to suit your needs - that
> > works since 1995 (before distutils was even written).
Would be acceptable to change something like:

"""
add_library_path("/usr/local/lib")
"""

to something similar to:

"""
if (platform.uname()=="SunOS") and (platform.architecture()[0]=="64bits") :
  add_library_path("/usr/local/lib/64")
else :
  add_library_path("/usr/local/lib")
"""

python-dev would consider that change OK?.

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[Python-Dev] Sporadic problems with bugs.python.org

[Jesus Cea]

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Happen to me last Sunday, and happening just now.

I can access http://bugs.python.org/ just fine, but trying to post a
message, open a new bug, change nosy, etc., takes a LONG time (minutes)
and it is finally failing with a "400 Bad Request" error:

"""
Bad Request

Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand.
Apache/2.2.9 (Debian) mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.5.2 mod_ssl/2.2.9
OpenSSL/0.9.8g mod_wsgi/2.5 Server at bugs.python.org Port 80
"""

Last sunday I was able to open the bug after a time. Today I have been
retrying for while, with no luck yet.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Sporadic problems with bugs.python.org

[Jesus Cea]

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On 23/11/10 21:33, Jesus Cea wrote:
> Happen to me last Sunday, and happening just now.
> 
> I can access http://bugs.python.org/ just fine, but trying to post a
> message, open a new bug, change nosy, etc., takes a LONG time (minutes)
> and it is finally failing with a "400 Bad Request" error:
> 
> """
> Bad Request
> 
> Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand.
> Apache/2.2.9 (Debian) mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.5.2 mod_ssl/2.2.9
> OpenSSL/0.9.8g mod_wsgi/2.5 Server at bugs.python.org Port 80
> """
> 
> Last sunday I was able to open the bug after a time. Today I have been
> retrying for while, with no luck yet.

Still retrying, with no luck.

Anybody else can reproduce?.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Sporadic problems with bugs.python.org

[Jesus Cea]

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On 24/11/10 01:31, Jesus Cea wrote:
> Still retrying, with no luck.
> 
> Anybody else can reproduce?.

One of my tracker changes was just processed.

The important one still retrying every 5 minutes...

I hope I can go sleep before dawn :-P.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Sporadic problems with bugs.python.org

[Jesus Cea]

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On 24/11/10 02:51, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> I hope I can go sleep before dawn :-P.
> 
> I added a comment to one issue and opened another with no problem during
> the last couple of hours.

My changes have work now. After like 8 hours and a retry every five minutes.

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