Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library
What replacements are available for NNTP? All I could find was pynntp, which had a single release 6 years ago. https://github.com/greenbender/pynntp //Jeff On 5/20/19 2:27 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: NNTP is still quite used (often through GMane, but probably not only) so I'd question the removal of nntplib. cgitb used to be used by some Web frameworks in order to format exceptions. Perhaps one should check if that's still the case. If the wave module depends on the audioop module, and if the wave module is kept in the stdlib, then the audioop module can't be removed. Removing the crypt module would remove support for system-standard password files. I don't understand the rationale. Regards Antoine. On Mon, 20 May 2019 22:15:22 +0200 Christian Heimes wrote: Hi, here is the first version of my PEP 594 to deprecate and eventually remove modules from the standard library. The PEP started last year with talk during the Python Language Summit 2018, https://lwn.net/Articles/755229/. The PEP can be confirmed in two stages. I'm not planning any code changes for 3.8. Instead I only like to document a bunch of modules as deprecated. Active deprecation is planned for 3.9 and removal for 3.10. The long deprecation phase gives us 3 years to change our minds or handle edge cases, too. Regards, Christian PEP: 594 Title: Removing dead batteries from the standard library Author: Christian Heimes Status: Active Type: Process Content-Type: text/x-rst Created: 20-May-2019 Post-History: Abstract This PEP proposed a list of standard library modules to be removed from the standard library. The modules are mostly historic data formats and APIs that have been superseded a long time ago, e.g. Mac OS 9 and Commodore. Rationale = Back in the early days of Python, the interpreter came with a large set of useful modules. This was often refrained to as "batteries included" philosophy and was one of the corner stones to Python's success story. Users didn't have to figure out how to download and install separate packages in order to write a simple web server or parse email. Times have changed. The introduction of the cheese shop (PyPI), setuptools, and later pip, it became simple and straight forward to download and install packages. Nowadays Python has a rich and vibrant ecosystem of third party packages. It's pretty much standard to either install packages from PyPI or use one of the many Python or Linux distributions. On the other hand, Python's standard library is piling up cruft, unnecessary duplication of functionality, and dispensable features. This is undesirable for several reasons. * Any additional module increases the maintenance cost for the Python core development team. The team has limited resources, reduced maintenance cost frees development time for other improvements. * Modules in the standard library are generally favored and seen as the de-facto solution for a problem. A majority of users only pick 3rd party modules to replace a stdlib module, when they have a compelling reason, e.g. lxml instead of `xml`. The removal of an unmaintained stdlib module increases the chances of a community contributed module to become widely used. * A lean and mean standard library benefits platforms with limited resources like devices with just a few hundred kilobyte of storage (e.g. BBC Micro:bit). Python on mobile platforms like BeeWare or WebAssembly (e.g. pyodide) also benefit from reduced download size. The modules in the PEP have been selected for deprecation because their removal is either least controversial or most beneficial. For example least controversial are 30 years old multimedia formats like ``sunau`` audio format, which was used on SPARC and NeXT workstations in the late 1980ties. The ``crypt`` module has fundamental flaws that are better solved outside the standard library. This PEP also designates some modules as not scheduled for removal. Some modules have been deprecated for several releases or seem unnecessary at first glance. However it is beneficial to keep the modules in the standard library, mostly for environments where installing a package from PyPI is not an option. This can be cooperate environments or class rooms where external code is not permitted without legal approval. * The usage of FTP is declining, but some files are still provided over the FTP protocol or hosters offer FTP to upload content. Therefore ``ftplib`` is going to stay. * The ``optparse`` and ``getopt`` module are widely used. They are mature modules with very low maintenance overhead. * According to David Beazley [5]_ the ``wave`` module is easy to teach to kids and can make crazy sounds. Making a computer generate crazy sounds is powerful and highly motivating exercise for a 9yo aspiring developer. It's a fun battery to keep. Deprecation schedule =
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library
+1 On 5/23/19 1:00 AM, Alex Walters wrote: I've watched the entire thread and its taken me a few days to put a finger on what bothers me about it. In my opinion, this shouldn't be a pep describing the list of modules that need to go as "dead batteries", but should be a process pep describing how dead batteries should be removed, and the individual modules should be given their own pep. I think reactions to individual module peps will give a better indication of if it's a used module or not. -Original Message- From: Python-Dev On Behalf Of Christian Heimes Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 4:15 PM To: Python Dev Subject: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library Hi, here is the first version of my PEP 594 to deprecate and eventually remove modules from the standard library. The PEP started last year with talk during the Python Language Summit 2018, https://lwn.net/Articles/755229/. The PEP can be confirmed in two stages. I'm not planning any code changes for 3.8. Instead I only like to document a bunch of modules as deprecated. Active deprecation is planned for 3.9 and removal for 3.10. The long deprecation phase gives us 3 years to change our minds or handle edge cases, too. Regards, Christian PEP: 594 Title: Removing dead batteries from the standard library Author: Christian Heimes Status: Active Type: Process Content-Type: text/x-rst Created: 20-May-2019 Post-History: Abstract This PEP proposed a list of standard library modules to be removed from the standard library. The modules are mostly historic data formats and APIs that have been superseded a long time ago, e.g. Mac OS 9 and Commodore. Rationale = Back in the early days of Python, the interpreter came with a large set of useful modules. This was often refrained to as "batteries included" philosophy and was one of the corner stones to Python's success story. Users didn't have to figure out how to download and install separate packages in order to write a simple web server or parse email. Times have changed. The introduction of the cheese shop (PyPI), setuptools, and later pip, it became simple and straight forward to download and install packages. Nowadays Python has a rich and vibrant ecosystem of third party packages. It's pretty much standard to either install packages from PyPI or use one of the many Python or Linux distributions. On the other hand, Python's standard library is piling up cruft, unnecessary duplication of functionality, and dispensable features. This is undesirable for several reasons. * Any additional module increases the maintenance cost for the Python core development team. The team has limited resources, reduced maintenance cost frees development time for other improvements. * Modules in the standard library are generally favored and seen as the de-facto solution for a problem. A majority of users only pick 3rd party modules to replace a stdlib module, when they have a compelling reason, e.g. lxml instead of `xml`. The removal of an unmaintained stdlib module increases the chances of a community contributed module to become widely used. * A lean and mean standard library benefits platforms with limited resources like devices with just a few hundred kilobyte of storage (e.g. BBC Micro:bit). Python on mobile platforms like BeeWare or WebAssembly (e.g. pyodide) also benefit from reduced download size. The modules in the PEP have been selected for deprecation because their removal is either least controversial or most beneficial. For example least controversial are 30 years old multimedia formats like ``sunau`` audio format, which was used on SPARC and NeXT workstations in the late 1980ties. The ``crypt`` module has fundamental flaws that are better solved outside the standard library. This PEP also designates some modules as not scheduled for removal. Some modules have been deprecated for several releases or seem unnecessary at first glance. However it is beneficial to keep the modules in the standard library, mostly for environments where installing a package from PyPI is not an option. This can be cooperate environments or class rooms where external code is not permitted without legal approval. * The usage of FTP is declining, but some files are still provided over the FTP protocol or hosters offer FTP to upload content. Therefore ``ftplib`` is going to stay. * The ``optparse`` and ``getopt`` module are widely used. They are mature modules with very low maintenance overhead. * According to David Beazley [5]_ the ``wave`` module is easy to teach to kids and can make crazy sounds. Making a computer generate crazy sounds is powerful and highly motivating exercise for a 9yo aspiring developer. It's a fun battery to keep. Deprecation schedule 3.8 --- This PEP targets Python 3.8. Ver
