[Python-Dev] PEP 467 (Minor API improvements for binary sequences) - any thoughts?

[Elias Zamaria]

This is about some minor changes to the bytes, bytearray, and memoryview
classes. Here is the PEP: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0467/

The page in the bug tracker can be seen at
https://bugs.python.org/issue27923 and the pull request can be seen at
https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/3237.

I am waiting for this to be merged, or approved, or whatever is the next
step. Someone on the bug tracker mentioned restarting the discussion on the
mailing list, so that is what I'm trying to do here. Does anyone have any
thoughts?
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Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 467 (Minor API improvements for binary sequences) - any thoughts?

[Elias Zamaria]

Nick, I'm trying to reply to your message, but I can't figure out how.

You mentioned that the PEP needs a "champion". What would that involve? How
much time and effort would it take? What kinds of decisions would I make?

The iterbytes thing in the PEP is something I was wishing for, while
working on a personal project. I stumbled upon this PEP and decided to try
to implement it myself, to learn about C and the Python internals, among
other reasons.

I don't know how I would feel working on something so general, of use to so
many people for lots of different purposes. Do I know enough about all of
the use cases and what everyone wants? I am not completely against it but
I'd need to think about it.

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 2:36 PM, Chris Barker  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Steve Holden 
> wrote:
>
>> I think the chances of a "byte" object are about as good as the chances
>> of a character object
>>
>
> probably right.
>
>
>> (though one can always implement such in C extensions, that wouldn't
>> build them into the syntax).
>>
>
> I think you could simply subclass, too (overriding __new__ and a couple
> methods). But that would do exactly no good, unless you used your own
> custom string and bytes objects, too. The whole point is that iterating
> over a string (Or bytes) always returns an also-iterable object,
> ad-infinitum.
>
> This is the cause of the major remaining common "type error" in Python.
> (the old integer division used to be the big one)
>
>
>> The fact that characters are single-byte strings is responsible for
>> certain anomalies with (e.g.) the __contains__ operator (list elements
>> aren't lists, but string element are strings), but overall the choices made
>> lead to sensible, comprehensible code.
>>
>
> I'm pretty convinced that the choice not to have a character type has had
> basically zero benefits to sensible, comprehensible code, though it's not
> a very big deal, either. not a big enough deal for the churn it would cause
> to introduce it now, that's for sure.
>
> so +1 for this PEP as is.
>
> -CHB
>
> --
>
> Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
> Oceanographer
>
> Emergency Response Division
> NOAA/NOS/OR&R(206) 526-6959   voice
> 7600 Sand Point Way NE
> 
>   (206) 526-6329   fax
> Seattle, WA  98115   (206) 526-6317   main reception
>
> chris.bar...@noaa.gov
>
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[Python-Dev] Any way to only receive emails for threads that I am participating in?

[Elias Zamaria]

I am trying to participate in the discussion about PEP 467, but I'm still
kind of getting used to the mailing list.

It seems like I can either subscribe and get emails for all of the threads,
or unsubscribe and not get any emails, making me unable to reply to the
threads I want to reply to. The batched daily digest feature makes the
emails more tolerable, but ideally, I would like to only get emails for a
few specific subjects I care a lot about.

I can probably set up some archiving or filtering on my end, but I am
wondering if anyone has a way to only subscribe to certain threads, or any
general suggestions for dealing with the mailing list.

Also, I was unsubscribed for a while, when someone sent a message in the
PEP 467 thread. Is there a way to reply to messages that were sent when I
was not subscribed?
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Re: [Python-Dev] Any way to only receive emails for threads that I am participating in?

[Elias Zamaria]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I think for now, I'll just try to
deal with it and maybe set up some filtering in Gmail. I'm not sure if it
is worth changing my habits and getting over the learning curve of these
tools just to deal with this one mailing list.

On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 12:03 AM, Barry Warsaw  wrote:

> On Mar 2, 2018, at 20:41, Dan Stromberg  wrote:
> >
> > Maybe gmane combined with a threaded newsreader (NNTP client) would be
> > close enough?
>
> While I guzzle the firehose of python-dev from my inbox, Gmane+NNTP is how
> I read many other Python mailing lists, including python-ideas.  It’s a
> great solution if you want to participate in just a few threads.  I
> personally use Postbox for that, but there good free open source MUAs too,
> depending on your platform.  My favorite on Linux is Claws Mail.
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry
>
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Any way to only receive emails for threads that I am participating in?

[Elias Zamaria]

Matěj, thanks for the suggestion. I haven't used Usenet in over a decade. I
may try using a Usenet reader if I feel like trying something new (actually
very old, but kind of unfamiliar to me from being not fresh in my head),
but for now, I'm going to use Gmail's filtering so I can prevent the
python-dev messages from being mixed with the other stuff in my inbox. If
that is somehow not good enough for me, after taking a few days or weeks to
get used to it, then I will try other ways of dealing with it.

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 10:08 PM, Matěj Cepl  wrote:

> On 2018-03-03, 02:15 GMT, Elias Zamaria wrote:
> > It seems like I can either subscribe and get emails for all of
> > the threads, or unsubscribe and not get any emails, making me
> > unable to reply to the threads I want to reply to.
>
> Go to https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev in the
> last input box fill in your email, and click on [Unsubscribe or
> edit options]. On the next page fill-in your password (you get
> it every month in email), and on the settings page switch “Mail
> delivery” to “Disabled”.
>
> You will not get any message from the list, but you will be
> still subscribed, so you can post to the list.
>
> Then open your NNTP newsreader
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsreader_(Usenet)) (you use
> one, right? It is the only sensible way how to deal with the
> large community lists) and subscribe to
> nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel . You will have
> all advantages of newsreader (killfile, easy ignoring whole
> threads at once) in the comfort of your computer, perhaps even
> in the offline state.
>
> If you don’t want to go all that length, just use email program
> which can kill threads (e.g., Thunderbird
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/ignore-threads )
>
> Best,
>
> Matěj
> --
> https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz
> GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5  BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8
>
> Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its
> victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live
> under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The
> robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at
> some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own
> good will torment us without end, for they do so with the
> approval of their consciences.
> -- C. S. Lewis
>
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[Python-Dev] Championing PEP 467

[Elias Zamaria]

Nick Coghlan, I'm thinking about what you said, over a year ago, about
finding a new champion for PEP 467. I think it would be a privilege to work
on something like that, which may be used by millions of people over a
period of years or decades.

However, I have decided that I no longer have the time or interest.

This PEP has been open but delayed for years. It was originally written in
2014 (apparently with the expectation that it would be included in Python
3.5). My initial attempt to implement it was in 2016. In 2018, Guido said
"It's too late for 3.7 period, but there's no reason it can't be considered
for 3.8.", but now 3.8 is already in beta.

I didn't realize that this would go on for so long. I was working on a
personal project, and at one point I was wishing for something like the
proposed iterator methods. I thought the details were already decided and I
just had to code the thing, which would take a few weeks or maybe a few
months at most. I did not realize what I was getting myself into.

I wish the best of luck to whoever decides to finish this effort.
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