[Python-Dev] GSoC: speed.python.org
Hello Guys, I'm interested in participating in the Google Summer of Code this year and I've been looking at projects in the Wiki, particularly speed.pypy.org[1] as I'm very interested in the current VM development. However given my knowledge that project raised several questions: 1. Up until now the only 3.x Implementation is CPyhon. IronPython, Jython and PyPy don't support it - and to my knowledge won't get support for it during or before GSoC - and could not benefit from it. It seems that a comparison between a Python 2.x implementation and a 3.x implementation is rather pointless; so is this intended to be rather an additional "feature" to have 3.x there as well? 2. As a follow-up to 1: It is not specified whether the benchmarks should be ported using a tool such as 2to3, if this should not happen or if this is up to the student, this needs clarification. This may be more clear if it were considered under which "umbrella" this project is actually supposed to happen; will those ported benchmarks end up in CPython or will there be a separate repository for all VMs? 3. Several benchmarks (at least the Django and Twisted ones) have dependencies which are not (yet) ported to 3.x and porting those dependencies during GSoC as part of this project is an unrealistic goal. Should those benchmarks, at least for now, be ignored? [1]: http://wiki.python.org/moin/SpeedDotPythonDotOrg ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: speed.python.org
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 19:33:55 +0100 > DasIch wrote: >> >> 3. Several benchmarks (at least the Django and Twisted ones) have >> dependencies which are not (yet) ported to 3.x and porting those >> dependencies during GSoC as part of this project is an unrealistic >> goal. Should those benchmarks, at least for now, be ignored? > > Why not reuse the benchmarks in http://hg.python.org/benchmarks/ ? > Many of them are 3.x-compatible. > I don't understand why people are working on multiple benchmark suites > without cooperating these days. I haven't looked to closely but those benchmarks appear to be the ones developed by the unladen swallow guys and those are used by PyPy among others. The difference is that PyPy has more benchmarks particularly ones that measure performance of real world applications. As good benchmarks are very hard to come by those appear to be a better starting point. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] [GSoC] Developing a benchmark suite (for Python 3.x)
Hello Guys, I would like to present my proposal for the Google Summer of Code, concerning the idea of porting the benchmarks to Python 3.x for speed.pypy.org. I think I have successfully integrated the feedback I got from prior discussions on the topic and I would like to hear your opinion. Abstract === As of now there are several benchmark suites used by Python implementations, PyPy[1] uses the benchmarks developed for the Unladen Swallow[2] project as well as several other benchmarks they implemented on their own, CPython[3] uses the Unladen Swallow benchmarks and several "crap benchmarks used for historical reasons"[4]. This makes comparisons unnecessarily hard and causes confusion. As a solution to this problem I propose merging the existing benchmarks - at least those considered worth having - into a single benchmark suite which can be shared by all implementations and ported to Python 3.x. Milestones The project can be divided into several milestones: 1. Definition of the benchmark suite. This will entail contacting developers of Python implementations (CPython, PyPy, IronPython and Jython), via discussion on the appropriate mailing lists. This might be achievable as part of this proposal. 2. Implementing the benchmark suite. Based on the prior agreed upon definition, the suite will be implemented, which means that the benchmarks will be merged into a single mercurial repository on Bitbucket[5]. 3. Porting the suite to Python 3.x. The suite will be ported to 3.x using 2to3[6], as far as possible. The usage of 2to3 will make it easier make changes to the repository especially for those still focusing on 2.x. It is to be expected that some benchmarks cannot be ported due to dependencies which are not available on Python 3.x. Those will be ignored by this project to be ported at a later time, when the necessary requirements are met. Start of Program (May 24) == Before the coding, milestones 2 and 3, can begin it is necessary to agree upon a set of benchmarks, everyone is happy with, as described. Midterm Evaluation (July 12) === During the midterm I want to finish the second milestone and before the evaluation I want to start in the third milestone. Final Evaluation (Aug 16) = In this period the benchmark suite will be ported. If everything works out perfectly I will even have some time left, if there are problems I have a buffer here. Probably Asked Questions == Why not use one of the existing benchmark suites for porting? The effort will be wasted if there is no good base to build upon, creating a new benchmark suite based upon the existing ones ensures that. Why not use Git/Bazaar/...? Mercurial is used by CPython, PyPy and is fairly well known and used in the Python community. This ensures easy accessibility for everyone. What will happen with the Repository after GSoC/How will access to the repository be handled? I propose to give administrative rights to one or two representatives of each project. Those will provide other developers with write access. Communication = Communication of the progress will be done via Twitter[7] and my blog[8], if desired I can also send an email with the contents of the blog post to the mailing lists of the implementations. Furthermore I am usually quick to answer via IRC (DasIch on freenode), Twitter or E-Mail(dasdas...@gmail.com) if anyone has any questions. Contact to the mentor can be established via the means mentioned above or via Skype. About Me My name is Daniel Neuhäuser, I am 19 years old and currently a student at the Bergstadt-Gymnasium Lüdenscheid[9]. I started programming (with Python) about 4 years ago and became a member of the Pocoo Team[10] after successfully participating in the Google Summer of Code last year, during which I ported Sphinx[11] to Python 3.x and implemented an algorithm to diff abstract syntax trees to preserve comments and translated strings which has been used by the other GSoC projects targeting Sphinx. .. [1]: https://bitbucket.org/pypy/benchmarks/src .. [2]: http://code.google.com/p/unladen-swallow/ .. [3]: http://hg.python.org/benchmarks/file/tip/performance .. [4]: http://hg.python.org/benchmarks/file/62e754c57a7f/performance/README .. [5]: http://bitbucket.org/ .. [6]: http://docs.python.org/library/2to3.html .. [7]: http://twitter.com/#!/DasIch .. [8]: http://dasdasich.blogspot.com/ .. [9]: http://bergstadt-gymnasium.de/ .. [10]: http://www.pocoo.org/team/#daniel-neuhauser .. [11]: http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ P.S.: I would like to get in touch with the IronPython developers as well, unfortunately I was not able to find a mailing list or IRC channel is there anybody how can send me in the right direction? ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailm
Re: [Python-Dev] [GSoC] Developing a benchmark suite (for Python 3.x)
creating a new benchmark suite based upon the existing ones ensures that. Why not use Git/Bazaar/...? Mercurial is used by CPython, PyPy and is fairly well known and used in the Python community. This ensures easy accessibility for everyone. What will happen with the Repository after GSoC/How will access to the repository be handled? I propose to give administrative rights to one or two representatives of each project. Those will provide other developers with write access. Communication = Communication of the progress will be done via Twitter[10] and my blog[11], if desired I can also send an email with the contents of the blog post to the mailing lists of the implementations. Furthermore I am usually quick to answer via IRC(DasIch on freenode), Twitter or E-Mail(dasdas...@gmail.com) if anyone has any questions. Contact to the mentor can be established via the means mentioned above or via Skype. About Me My name is Daniel Neuhäuser, I am 19 years old and currently a student at the Bergstadt-Gymnasium Lüdenscheid[12]. I started programming (with Python) about 4 years ago and became a member of the Pocoo Team[13] after successfully participating in the Google Summer of Code last year, during which I ported Sphinx[14] to Python 3.x and implemented an algorithm to diff abstract syntax trees to preserve comments and translated strings which has been used by the other GSoC projects targeting Sphinx. .. [1]: https://bitbucket.org/pypy/benchmarks/src .. [2]: http://code.google.com/p/unladen-swallow/ .. [3]: http://hg.python.org/benchmarks/file/tip/performance .. [4]: http://hg.python.org/benchmarks/file/62e754c57a7f/performance/README .. [5]: http://docs.python.org/library/2to3.html .. [6]: http://codespeak.net/tox/ .. [7]: http://anyvc.readthedocs.org/en/latest/?redir .. [8]: http://mercurial.selenic.com/ .. [9]: https://bitbucket.org/ .. [10]: http://twitter.com/#!/DasIch .. [11]: http://dasdasich.blogspot.com/ .. [12]: http://bergstadt-gymnasium.de/ .. [13]: http://www.pocoo.org/team/#daniel-neuhauser .. [14]: http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Proposal for a common benchmark suite
Hello, As announced in my GSoC proposal I'd like to announce which benchmarks I'll use for the benchmark suite I will work on this summer. As of now there are two benchmark suites (that I know of) which receive some sort of attention, those are the ones developed as part of the PyPy project[1] which is used for http://speed.pypy.org and the one initially developed for Unladen Swallow which has been continued by CPython[2]. The PyPy benchmarks contain a lot of interesting benchmarks some explicitly developed for that suite, the CPython benchmarks have an extensive set of microbenchmarks in the pybench package as well as the previously mentioned modifications made to the Unladen Swallow benchmarks. I'd like to "simply" merge both suites so that no changes are lost. However I'd like to leave out the waf benchmark which is part of the PyPy suite, the removal was proposed on pypy-dev for obvious deficits[3]. It will be easier to add a better benchmark later than replacing it at a later point. Unless there is a major issue with this plan I'd like to go forward with this. .. [1]: https://bitbucket.org/pypy/benchmarks .. [2]: http://hg.python.org/benchmarks .. [3]: http://mailrepository.com/pypy-dev.codespeak.net/msg/3627509/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal for a common benchmark suite
Given those facts I think including pybench is a mistake. It does not allow for a fair or meaningful comparison between implementations which is one of the things the suite is supposed to be used for in the future. This easily leads to misinterpretation of the results from this particular benchmark and it negatively affects the performance data as a whole. The same applies to several Unladen Swallow microbenchmarks such as bm_call_method_*, bm_call_simple and bm_unpack_sequence. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
