[Python-Dev] Re: Switching to Discourse
> I can now pull from Discourse or GH when it’s convenient for me. It’s also > much easier to disengage for a few days and catch up later. I have a question about how you handle multiple communities. I'm subscribed to ~30 python-dev style mailing lists across different projects. There is no way I can open up 30 Discourse sites each day. Mail brings everything into one place for me, and I have things setup so that new mail from python-dev style lists is separated from my general inbox. Are you not subscribed to a bunch of communities? Or is there some way you aggregate or visit each forum that works nicely? Regards, Simon ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/ZCJ6QAYXOTG7WZG5HHTLPBT6EZK3KBOM/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Switching to Discourse
Barry Warsaw writes: > I absolutely love not having to slog through hundreds of emails > before my first shots of caffeine, and I can now pull from > Discourse or GH when it’s convenient for me. It’s also much easier > to disengage for a few days and catch up later. I absolutely cannot imagine slogging through hundreds of posts in the Discourse interface. Couldn't this be, as Baptiste suggests, a symptom of people disengaging and there just being less traffic? Or is it somehow being channeled better so that you're only seeing what interests you now? In particular I have to suspect that a boatload of those were python-committers mails that are now basically obsolete (can't say, I never have sought enough responsibility that I needed to subscribe to that firehose). But that would help with python-dev/ideas too. Steve ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/FXEMP65SFVKPVYDOSQ4COTS3V6MX7MPO/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Switching to Discourse
> > I have a question about how you handle multiple communities. I'm > subscribed to ~30 python-dev style mailing lists across different > projects. There is no way I can open up 30 Discourse sites each day. > Mail brings everything into one place for me, and I have things setup > so that new mail from python-dev style lists is separated from my > general inbox. > +1 I have other interests outside Python. Email filters allow me to categorize email automatically, saving messages in folders which wait for me to get around to that category. Considering the explosion of outlets for Python discussion, I will relate a recent unfortunate incident I don't think would have happened a couple years ago. I won't name names, but I won't go out of my way to keep the parties from being discovered. Someone posted a note to the [Python Help] forum on discuss.python.org recently stating Python had an obvious memory leak. I tried to help, explaining what I thought he needed to do to demonstrate a leak. He posted a small C program which initialized, then immediately finalized the Python runtime, and basically said, "this is a memory leak." I pointed out that you need to loop over the same operation to determine if you really have a leak. Back and forth for a bit. Finally, I said, "if you believe this to be a memory leak, then you should open an issue on GitHub." My intent was to get his argument in front of the people who really are the experts on Python's memory management. His response, "Oh, I already have, here and here and here." What a nice way to waste my time... I imagine he was trolling, but maybe he was just dissatisfied with the responses he got on GH and thought he could get someone to go to bat for him. My thinking is this would likely have not happened in the olden days when almost all Python development/programming traffic was housed in python-list and python-dev.Granted, the Python community was smaller, but, perhaps just as importantly, a couple active core developers always seemed to keep an eye on python-list. It seems likely that someone would have seen this thread and nipped it in the bud early. "I responded to your issue a couple months ago and explained why this isn't a memory leak. Now go away." Today, I don't recall noticing core developers on the [Python Help] forum. (I could well be wrong, but the web interface doesn't make it obvious at-a-glance who's posted to a thread from the summary page. It's tiny avatars all the way down.) The flip side of that is that if you want to ask a question about something, it's less obvious where to post that question. The fragmented community means you stand a greater chance of guessing wrong and have it not be seen by anyone who can help. Just my 2¢ Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/PFA2J7HOHCWJGLCX6N6CIVNEEQSW65AL/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Switching to Discourse
It’s possible, but here’s the way I look at it. I’m *already* engaged with dozens of communities, within Python but also others. So every morning I’d wake up to many hundreds of emails, which is just incredibly stress inducing. So it’s a tension between guarding my time better and FOMO. Discourse helps me manage that much better because rather than *all* of those conversations ending up in a bunch of email folders, now they’re just sitting in forum channels. This gives me two advantages: 1) I can pull from the conversations when it’s convenient for me, not when the stress of email hygiene guilts me into it, and 2) it’s so much easier to ignore the stuff I don’t care about, or even skim the stuff I mildly care about, while giving me more quality time to spend on the conversations I do care about. As for python-committers, I turned off most email notifications from GH and use their notifications tab on the issues and PR I care about, and ignore the rest. GH’s notifications page isn’t fantastic, but it’s manageable and seems like a net win for controlling how and when I consume those conversations. My workflow centers around a browser tab group I call “Comms” and there it’s got my webmail, which I use in addition to my desktop mail client, and maybe 4 Discourse tabs for the various communities I follow, one of which is Python’s. I usually just click on the “New” tab for each to see what’s happening, and then go through the conversations I’ve tagged or responded to. I might drop in to those a couple of times a day when things are slow. Then of course there’s Discord for various Python groups, and Python’s Slack. The whole shift away from email leaves me calmer and better engaged. -Barry > On Dec 9, 2022, at 06:49, Stephen J. Turnbull > wrote: > > Barry Warsaw writes: >> I absolutely love not having to slog through hundreds of emails >> before my first shots of caffeine, and I can now pull from >> Discourse or GH when it’s convenient for me. It’s also much easier >> to disengage for a few days and catch up later. > > I absolutely cannot imagine slogging through hundreds of posts in the > Discourse interface. Couldn't this be, as Baptiste suggests, a > symptom of people disengaging and there just being less traffic? Or > is it somehow being channeled better so that you're only seeing what > interests you now? > > In particular I have to suspect that a boatload of those were > python-committers mails that are now basically obsolete (can't say, I > never have sought enough responsibility that I needed to subscribe to > that firehose). But that would help with python-dev/ideas too. > > Steve signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/DR7JRVFDV35NGGDCGHDOFDSOFPLH7AV4/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Switching to Discourse
On 12/9/22 09:20, Barry Warsaw wrote: > The whole shift away from email leaves me calmer and better engaged. There are definitely advantages to the different methods of staying engaged, and which is the best fit definitely depends on the individual. It seems to me the best possible outcome of Discourse vs email is somebody / some company donating the time and/or funding to improve Discourse's and Mailman's abilities to interoperate with each other. (My thanks to the person whose name I cannot remember for improving Discourse's email threading.) -- ~Ethan~ ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/BYWROPOOO5454G6PSY3JCHFKFIAIMWPM/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: Switching to Discourse
On 09Dec2022 14:58, Simon Cross wrote: I can now pull from Discourse or GH when it’s convenient for me. It’s also much easier to disengage for a few days and catch up later. I have a question about how you handle multiple communities. I'm subscribed to ~30 python-dev style mailing lists across different projects. There is no way I can open up 30 Discourse sites each day. Mail brings everything into one place for me, and I have things setup so that new mail from python-dev style lists is separated from my general inbox. Are you not subscribed to a bunch of communities? Or is there some way you aggregate or visit each forum that works nicely? I'm not Barry, but I have Discourse's "mailing list mode" enabled for the Python Discourse forums. That delivers all posts to me as email, and my filter rules file almost everything into my "python" mail folder. Same for the matplotlib forum etc. Cheers, Cameron Simpson ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/Q4CBEETK7LSRX566U4HH5UGPWR2Z2VET/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: A proposal to modify `None` so that it hashes to a constant
You're right of course. Oh well, it *was* a wild idea.😁
Rob Cliffe
On 04/12/2
On 04/12/2022 18:16, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, 5 Dec 2022 at 05:11, Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev
wrote:
Wild suggestion:
Make None.__hash__ writable.
E.g.
None.__hash__ = lambda : 0 # Currently raises AttributeError:
'NoneType' object attribute '__hash__' is read-only
Hashes have to be stable. If you change the hash of None after it's
been inserted into a dictionary, you'll get all kinds of entertaining
problems.
class X:
... def __init__(self): self.hash = 0
... def __hash__(self): return self.hash
...
x = X()
d = {x: "This is x"}
x.hash = 1
for key in d: print(key, key in d)
...
<__main__.X object at 0x7f2d07c6f1c0> False
ChrisA
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