[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 689 – Unstable C API tier (was: Semi-stable C API tier)
Sasha Kacanski writes: > Why you don't simplify with api A,B,C and forth and then follows > explanation ofr what is stable, unstable, semi... So forth This is exactly what they're hammering out. It's not easy for several reasons, chief of which is that in each case the boundary is a matter of opinion as to the balance among what is most convenient for the developers of Python itself, the developers of separately distributed C/C++ modules, and for existing modules that were developed before the divisions were set and would need to either be changed or to risk API incompatibility with future versions of Python. The nomenclature also matters, as individual programmers have various ideas about the meaning of terms like "stable", and we want as much agreement as possible that the "stable API" is "stable enough", and so on. If you have specific ideas about which APIs belong where, feel free to bring them forward. But this is not a process that should be rushed nor would anyone benefit from pushing it forward more quickly. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/3TDSVISHIV7PZPRDAI5ZRHNZYARH6J3O/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 689 – Unstable C API tier (was: Semi-stable C API tier)
I understand issues and welcome any discussions. For that matter I do not rush to conclusions. I am not expert in C and Python as the rest of the folks on this list but I am pretty good with Python itself. I just suggested naming to be as simple as possible for all relevant API's including full descriptions in the code base regarding stable, semi-stable, unstable and so forth. I do that in my projects with Python libraries I write ... Sorry for intruding and possibly clouding the email thread... Regards, On Wed, Jun 1, 2022, 4:39 AM Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Sasha Kacanski writes: > > > Why you don't simplify with api A,B,C and forth and then follows > > explanation ofr what is stable, unstable, semi... So forth > > This is exactly what they're hammering out. It's not easy for several > reasons, chief of which is that in each case the boundary is a matter > of opinion as to the balance among what is most convenient for the > developers of Python itself, the developers of separately distributed > C/C++ modules, and for existing modules that were developed before the > divisions were set and would need to either be changed or to risk > API incompatibility with future versions of Python. The nomenclature > also matters, as individual programmers have various ideas about the > meaning of terms like "stable", and we want as much agreement as > possible that the "stable API" is "stable enough", and so on. > > If you have specific ideas about which APIs belong where, feel free to > bring them forward. But this is not a process that should be rushed > nor would anyone benefit from pushing it forward more quickly. > > ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/CEYYEGJAYV2O5OC7KUP6D3UH5WORFWS7/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] [RELEASE] Expedited release of Python3.11.0b3!!
Hi everyone, Due to a known incompatibility with pytest and the previous beta release (Python 3.11.0b2) and after some deliberation, me and the rest of the release team have decided to do an expedited release of Python 3.11.0b3 so the community can continue testing their packages with pytest and therefore testing the betas as expected. # Where can I get the new release? https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3110b3/ # What happened? Pytest by default rewrites the AST nodes in the testing code to provide better diagnostics when something fails in the test. For doing this, it creates new AST nodes that are then compiled. In Python 3.11, after some changes in the compiler and AST nodes, these new AST nodes that pytest was creating were invalid. This causes CPython to crash in debug mode because we have several assert statements in the compiler, but in release mode this doesn't cause always a crash, but it creates potential corrupted structures in the compiler silently. In 3.11.0b3 we changed the compiler to reject invalid AST nodes, so what was a silent problem and a crash in debug mode turned into an exception being raised. We had a fix to allow the nodes that pytest is creating to work to preserve backwards compatibility but unfortunately, it didn't make it into 3.11.0b2. Is still possible to use pytest with 3.11.0b2 if you add "--assert=plain" to the pytest invocation but given how many users would have to modify their test suite invocation we decided to proceed with a new release that has the fix. # What happens with future beta releases Python 3.11.0b3 should be considered as an extra beta release. Instead of four beta releases, we will have five and the next beta release (3.11.0b4) will happen as scheduled on Thursday, 2022-06-16. # We hope you enjoy the new releases! Thanks to all of the many volunteers who help make Python Development and these releases possible! Please consider supporting our efforts by volunteering yourself or through organization contributions to the Python Software Foundation. https://www.python.org/psf/ If you have any questions, please reach out to me or another member of the release team :) Your friendly release team, Ned Deily @nad https://discuss.python.org/u/nad Steve Dower @steve.dower https://discuss.python.org/u/steve.dower Pablo Galindo Salgado @pablogsal https://discuss.python.org/u/pablogsal ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/YWAX3PNIXA6RDE2CGMGWZBFAAOM2LBA7/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: [RELEASE] The second Python 3.11 beta (3.11.0b2) is available
Update: we have decided to release Python 3.11.0b3. Let's hope this one is free of the curse :) On Wed, 1 Jun 2022 at 07:38, Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 01. 06. 22 0:39, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote: > > > Wouldn't it be more practical to bite the bullet and release b3 > immediately > > with this fix? > > > > I sympathize with the sentiment and I am sorry that > this is not practical but I > > am not fully convinced about the balance. Beta 3 is in one month and > spinning > > an entire release is a multi-hour process for at least 3 people. I will > discuss > > this with the release team but is unlikely. > > Understood. It's always a balance. > > > > For testing at fedora, you can > > temporarily patch beta2 and include this commit: > > Thanks. We already do that, my comment was motivated by the majority of > upstream CI which do not use Fedora's Python 3.11 (yet?). > > > Just for the heads up: I have sent an email to the release team and we > are > > considering the proposal. Thanks for raising this with us. > > Awesome, thanks again. > > -- > Miro Hrončok > -- > Phone: +420777974800 > IRC: mhroncok > > ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/DIECBL5OUTJLOKL637UE74CUGBDGA2VE/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: [RELEASE] Expedited release of Python3.11.0b3!!
On 01. 06. 22 17:47, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote: Hi everyone, Due to a known incompatibility with pytest and the previous beta release (Python 3.11.0b2) and after some deliberation, me and the rest of the release team have decided to do an expedited release of Python 3.11.0b3 so the community can continue testing their packages with pytest and therefore testing the betas as expected. Thank you for doing this. I know it meant a lot of extra work for you and the release team. -- Miro Hrončok -- Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/Q3VVS6WCETWHAT4RXJNYF4ZSWD7AJE7D/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: [RELEASE] Expedited release of Python3.11.0b3!!
Le 01/06/2022 à 19:11, Miro Hrončok a écrit : On 01. 06. 22 17:47, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote: Hi everyone, Due to a known incompatibility with pytest and the previous beta release (Python 3.11.0b2) and after some deliberation, me and the rest of the release team have decided to do an expedited release of Python 3.11.0b3 so the community can continue testing their packages with pytest and therefore testing the betas as expected. Thank you for doing this. I know it meant a lot of extra work for you and the release team. I could stand behind this. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/WTRQ6DCBMCPH6THHN3H72KEH7NW57VQZ/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
