[Python-Dev] Re: [PSA] OpenSSL 3.0 support is preliminary and experimental

[Erlend Aasland]

Is there an issue that keeps track of all the missing pieces? A "remaining 
tasks" list would be useful for involving more devs (and of course useful when 
resuming development, "now, where was I..."). A quick search on BPO revealed 
some info:

- bpo-46313: SSLObject does not raise SSLEOFError on OpenSSL 3
- bpo-40479: Port _hashlib to OpenSSL 3.0.0
- bpo-46114: OpenSSL 3.0 uses different version scheme
- bpo-38820: Make Python compatible with OpenSSL 3.0.0

Thank you for all the work you've put into this already, Christian!


Erlend

> On 9 Jan 2022, at 19:39, Christian Heimes  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I would like to remind everybody that Python's support for OpenSSL 3.0 is 
> preliminary [1]. Python compiles with OpenSSL 3.0.0 and simple code kinda 
> works. However there are known performance regressions, missing features 
> (e.g. usedforsecurity flag), and potential bugs cause by API 
> incompatibilities.
> 
> Due to the experimental state I advise against using Python with OpenSSL 3.0 
> in production.
> 
> It may take a while until Python gains full support for the next version of 
> OpenSSL. I have shifted my personal OSS time to more fun topics like 
> performance and WASM. My work time is currently limited, too.
> 
> Christian
> 
> [1] https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.10.html#ssl
> ___
> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> Message archived at 
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/ATO4DM6QYZGLSGGDZ3TRN5X3QDD5OHOE/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/ZLNVH3ZY4YC6PXKEVKS3MK6RVXXPR5SS/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 679 – Allow parentheses in assert statements

[Victor Stinner]

Does someone know if linters like pylint or pylakes current warn on
"assert(test, msg)" statements?

If a project use such assertions which are always true, they can start
failing wit the PEP 679, right? Hopefully, the fix is easy: removing
the parenthesis give the same behavior on old and new Python versions.

Is it possible to run a code search on PyPI top 5000 projects to see
if such always-true assertion is common or not?

Victor

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 1:22 AM Pablo Galindo Salgado
 wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I would like to start a discussion about a small PEP proposal to allow 
> parentheses in
> assert statements to fix a common gotcha with assert statements.
>
> Link to the PEP: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0679/
>
> Please, redirect all discussions to:
>
> https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-679-allow-parentheses-in-assert-statements/13003
>
> as I will not be monitoring answers to this thread.
>
> Thanks, everyone for your time!
>
> Regards from cloudy London,
> Pablo Galindo Salgado
> ___
> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> Message archived at 
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/I7MKCD3GHJXCERFCZ2FD3X7IPAX6ASVK/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/



-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/LFQGI43BH3SWKHRBPO7T3DC6SEU5HMQ3/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 679 – Allow parentheses in assert statements

[Batuhan Taskaya]

> Does someone know if linters like pylint or pylakes current warn on 
> "assert(test, msg)" statements?

I believe so, both the python itself (through SyntaxWarnings) and
other linters warn about this.

> Is it possible to run a code search on PyPI top 5000 projects to see
> if such always-true assertion is common or not?

I don't think this is a common thing, so changing the behavior should
not break anything. In my PyPI dataset (4 or 5 thousand packages),
I've only found 4 examples which 2 of them intentional (for test
purposes on linters/parsers etc). The other 2 seem like problematic
use cases, which should be fixed:

pylint

/home/isidentical/projects/data/pypi/clean/pylint/tests/functional/a/assert_on_tuple.py:4:0
keras-mxnet

/home/isidentical/projects/data/pypi/clean/keras-mxnet/examples/deep_dream.py:88:4
parso

/home/isidentical/projects/data/pypi/clean/parso/test/normalizer_issue_files/E12_not_first.py:54:4

/home/isidentical/projects/data/pypi/clean/parso/test/normalizer_issue_files/E101.py:38:1
django-modeltranslation

/home/isidentical/projects/data/pypi/clean/django-modeltranslation/modeltranslation/tests/urls.py:6:4

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 2:35 PM Victor Stinner  wrote:
>
> Does someone know if linters like pylint or pylakes current warn on
> "assert(test, msg)" statements?
>
> If a project use such assertions which are always true, they can start
> failing wit the PEP 679, right? Hopefully, the fix is easy: removing
> the parenthesis give the same behavior on old and new Python versions.
>
> Is it possible to run a code search on PyPI top 5000 projects to see
> if such always-true assertion is common or not?
>
> Victor
>
> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 1:22 AM Pablo Galindo Salgado
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I would like to start a discussion about a small PEP proposal to allow 
> > parentheses in
> > assert statements to fix a common gotcha with assert statements.
> >
> > Link to the PEP: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0679/
> >
> > Please, redirect all discussions to:
> >
> > https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-679-allow-parentheses-in-assert-statements/13003
> >
> > as I will not be monitoring answers to this thread.
> >
> > Thanks, everyone for your time!
> >
> > Regards from cloudy London,
> > Pablo Galindo Salgado
> > ___
> > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> > Message archived at 
> > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/I7MKCD3GHJXCERFCZ2FD3X7IPAX6ASVK/
> > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
>
>
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
> ___
> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> Message archived at 
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/LFQGI43BH3SWKHRBPO7T3DC6SEU5HMQ3/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/2NJJM3ZNJOZJXFS67LPM2HM4MKKJJX3C/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 679 – Allow parentheses in assert statements

[Paul Moore]

On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 11:43, Batuhan Taskaya  wrote:
>
> > Does someone know if linters like pylint or pylakes current warn on 
> > "assert(test, msg)" statements?
>
> I believe so, both the python itself (through SyntaxWarnings) and
> other linters warn about this.

❯ py
Python 3.10.1 (tags/v3.10.1:2cd268a, Dec  6 2021, 19:10:37) [MSC
v.1929 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> assert (1==0, "Hello")
:1: SyntaxWarning: assertion is always true, perhaps remove parentheses?

Paul
___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/SNTCRCIJCMLK7AYCQIIZ2XTRN5OX6J7M/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 679 – Allow parentheses in assert statements

[Joao S. O. Bueno]

On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 08:39, Victor Stinner  wrote:

> Does someone know if linters like pylint or pylakes current warn on
> "assert(test, msg)" statements?
>
> If a project use such assertions which are always true, they can start
> failing wit the PEP 679, right?


OTOH, any assertion which start failing in this way, is a statement which
_should_ have been failing from the start, and was being ignored up to
this change.

While it can indeed, make otherwise stable projects with "nop"s assert
sudden failing, that should be a trivial fix for any non-unmaintained
project.

+1 to the change




> Hopefully, the fix is easy: removing
> the parenthesis give the same behavior on old and new Python versions.
>
> (it will behave the same just if the first expression is actually truish)


> Is it possible to run a code search on PyPI top 5000 projects to see
> if such always-true assertion is common or not?
>
> Victor
>
> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 1:22 AM Pablo Galindo Salgado
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I would like to start a discussion about a small PEP proposal to allow
> parentheses in
> > assert statements to fix a common gotcha with assert statements.
> >
> > Link to the PEP: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0679/
> >
> > Please, redirect all discussions to:
> >
> >
> https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-679-allow-parentheses-in-assert-statements/13003
> >
> > as I will not be monitoring answers to this thread.
> >
> > Thanks, everyone for your time!
> >
> > Regards from cloudy London,
> > Pablo Galindo Salgado
> > ___
> > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> > Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/I7MKCD3GHJXCERFCZ2FD3X7IPAX6ASVK/
> > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
>
>
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
> ___
> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/LFQGI43BH3SWKHRBPO7T3DC6SEU5HMQ3/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/SFBWV5SAFYRFEASNJZJIRY4VUPIEOX24/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 679 – Allow parentheses in assert statements

[Batuhan Taskaya]

> While it can indeed, make otherwise stable projects with "nop"s assert
sudden failing, that should be a trivial fix for any non-unmaintained
project.

Agreed. This would be like a bug fix. I don't think anyone is depending on
the current behavior (beside explicit tests in linters, which is only a
handful (2-3)). +1 to the PEP as well, which I find this restriction
unnecessary.

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 4:20 PM Joao S. O. Bueno 
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 08:39, Victor Stinner  wrote:
>
>> Does someone know if linters like pylint or pylakes current warn on
>> "assert(test, msg)" statements?
>>
>> If a project use such assertions which are always true, they can start
>> failing wit the PEP 679, right?
>
>
> OTOH, any assertion which start failing in this way, is a statement which
> _should_ have been failing from the start, and was being ignored up to
> this change.
>
> While it can indeed, make otherwise stable projects with "nop"s assert
> sudden failing, that should be a trivial fix for any non-unmaintained
> project.
>
> +1 to the change
>
>
>
>
>> Hopefully, the fix is easy: removing
>> the parenthesis give the same behavior on old and new Python versions.
>>
>> (it will behave the same just if the first expression is actually truish)
>
>
>> Is it possible to run a code search on PyPI top 5000 projects to see
>> if such always-true assertion is common or not?
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 1:22 AM Pablo Galindo Salgado
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi everyone,
>> >
>> > I would like to start a discussion about a small PEP proposal to allow
>> parentheses in
>> > assert statements to fix a common gotcha with assert statements.
>> >
>> > Link to the PEP: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0679/
>> >
>> > Please, redirect all discussions to:
>> >
>> >
>> https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-679-allow-parentheses-in-assert-statements/13003
>> >
>> > as I will not be monitoring answers to this thread.
>> >
>> > Thanks, everyone for your time!
>> >
>> > Regards from cloudy London,
>> > Pablo Galindo Salgado
>> > ___
>> > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
>> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
>> > Message archived at
>> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/I7MKCD3GHJXCERFCZ2FD3X7IPAX6ASVK/
>> > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
>> ___
>> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
>> Message archived at
>> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/LFQGI43BH3SWKHRBPO7T3DC6SEU5HMQ3/
>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
> ___
> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/SFBWV5SAFYRFEASNJZJIRY4VUPIEOX24/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/FOZDTZFT4EGS3UUDF6GGVKA65DF6COH7/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 679 – Allow parentheses in assert statements

[Guido van Rossum]

Note that Pablo explicitly requested all feedback to Discourse.

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 06:15 Batuhan Taskaya  wrote:

> > While it can indeed, make otherwise stable projects with "nop"s assert
> sudden failing, that should be a trivial fix for any non-unmaintained
> project.
>
> Agreed. This would be like a bug fix. I don't think anyone is depending on
> the current behavior (beside explicit tests in linters, which is only a
> handful (2-3)). +1 to the PEP as well, which I find this restriction
> unnecessary.
>
> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 4:20 PM Joao S. O. Bueno 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 08:39, Victor Stinner  wrote:
>>
>>> Does someone know if linters like pylint or pylakes current warn on
>>> "assert(test, msg)" statements?
>>>
>>> If a project use such assertions which are always true, they can start
>>> failing wit the PEP 679, right?
>>
>>
>> OTOH, any assertion which start failing in this way, is a statement which
>> _should_ have been failing from the start, and was being ignored up to
>> this change.
>>
>> While it can indeed, make otherwise stable projects with "nop"s assert
>> sudden failing, that should be a trivial fix for any non-unmaintained
>> project.
>>
>> +1 to the change
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hopefully, the fix is easy: removing
>>> the parenthesis give the same behavior on old and new Python versions.
>>>
>>> (it will behave the same just if the first expression is actually truish)
>>
>>
>>> Is it possible to run a code search on PyPI top 5000 projects to see
>>> if such always-true assertion is common or not?
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 1:22 AM Pablo Galindo Salgado
>>>  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi everyone,
>>> >
>>> > I would like to start a discussion about a small PEP proposal to allow
>>> parentheses in
>>> > assert statements to fix a common gotcha with assert statements.
>>> >
>>> > Link to the PEP: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0679/
>>> >
>>> > Please, redirect all discussions to:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-679-allow-parentheses-in-assert-statements/13003
>>> >
>>> > as I will not be monitoring answers to this thread.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks, everyone for your time!
>>> >
>>> > Regards from cloudy London,
>>> > Pablo Galindo Salgado
>>> > ___
>>> > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
>>> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
>>> > Message archived at
>>> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/I7MKCD3GHJXCERFCZ2FD3X7IPAX6ASVK/
>>> > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
>>> ___
>>> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
>>> Message archived at
>>> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/LFQGI43BH3SWKHRBPO7T3DC6SEU5HMQ3/
>>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>>
>> ___
>> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
>> Message archived at
>> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/SFBWV5SAFYRFEASNJZJIRY4VUPIEOX24/
>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
> ___
> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/FOZDTZFT4EGS3UUDF6GGVKA65DF6COH7/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
-- 
--Guido (mobile)
___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/36GLLZYP46CINXWL5QXRWKZ67G7GKJZH/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[Python-Dev] Re: [PSA] OpenSSL 3.0 support is preliminary and experimental

[Miro Hrončok]

On 09. 01. 22 19:39, Christian Heimes wrote:

Hi,

I would like to remind everybody that Python's support for OpenSSL 3.0 is 
preliminary [1]. Python compiles with OpenSSL 3.0.0 and simple code kinda 
works. However there are known performance regressions, missing features (e.g. 
usedforsecurity flag), and potential bugs cause by API incompatibilities.


Due to the experimental state I advise against using Python with OpenSSL 3.0 in 
production.


It may take a while until Python gains full support for the next version of 
OpenSSL. I have shifted my personal OSS time to more fun topics like 
performance and WASM. My work time is currently limited, too.


Hello Christian.

Do you think we should switch Python in Fedora 36 to OpenSSL 1.1.1? Python was 
naturally rebuilt with OpenSSL 3.0 when the distro upgraded OpenSSL. But the 
older version is still available.


Note that Fedora 36 is also "preliminary" so we still have time to make this 
decision until +- the beta freeze/release (end of February, early March this year).


--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok

___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/SJDXHQYESQV7JQNVKFAUWEQMNMDKLSXP/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 679 – Allow parentheses in assert statements

[Victor Stinner]

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 4:04 PM Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> Note that Pablo explicitly requested all feedback to Discourse.

Oooops sorry, I missed that part of his email!

Victor
___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/UA27UIGDWDOWQ5WIQSMY6QAZ7AIW4WA5/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[Python-Dev] Core review request: bpo-33178: Add BigEndianUnion, LittleEndianUnion classes to ctypes #25480

[Dave Goncalves]

Apologies for one of these review request emails. Anybody with ctypes 
experience in the core reviewer team available to review and comment/merge? 
This has gotten reviewed and passes checks. 

Python bug: https://bugs.python.org/issue33178
Current PR: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/25480

Thanks, 

David Goncalves
___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/UULB7ZCKGRPH7ANZN2WG3WRWBO7P6VZR/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[Python-Dev] PEP 676 -- PEP Infrastructure Process

[python]

Hi,

I would like to announce PEP 676 to python-dev. It is a meta-PEP focussed on 
modernising the PEP build infrastructure. From the abstract, "This PEP 
addresses the infrastructure around rendering PEP files from reStructuredText 
files to HTML webpages. We aim to specify a self-contained and maintainable 
solution for PEP readers, authors, and editors."

Link: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0676/
Rendered through the PEP 676 system: https://python.github.io/peps/pep-0676/

Please see https://discuss.python.org/t/10774 for prior discussion and to give 
any feedback.

Thanks,

Adam Turner
___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/C675PLAF535FSUL7KX4FS2NK6ZPPQ3HB/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 676 -- PEP Infrastructure Process

[Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer]

There should be a pep somewhere to remove the "How to teach this" section
for these kinds of peps.

Kind Regards,

Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
about  | blog

github 
Mauritius


On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 9:00 PM  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I would like to announce PEP 676 to python-dev. It is a meta-PEP focussed
> on modernising the PEP build infrastructure. From the abstract, "This PEP
> addresses the infrastructure around rendering PEP files from
> reStructuredText files to HTML webpages. We aim to specify a self-contained
> and maintainable solution for PEP readers, authors, and editors."
>
> Link: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0676/
> Rendered through the PEP 676 system:
> https://python.github.io/peps/pep-0676/
>
> Please see https://discuss.python.org/t/10774 for prior discussion and to
> give any feedback.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam Turner
> ___
> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/C675PLAF535FSUL7KX4FS2NK6ZPPQ3HB/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/Z4L4BEFFSIIMCMQ7ETQU2FMG65GGVU4F/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 676 -- PEP Infrastructure Process

[Barry Warsaw]

This looks great Adam, +1

One thing I’m pining for is a dark mode theme to PEPs.  I know that’s outside 
the scope of this PEP, but if you’re building a custom theme anyway, maybe you 
can consider it.

Whether in this PEP or not, the design and implementation of the new system 
should be fully documented, so that others can help debug and enhance it.  
Also, the process for local builds should be documented.

I see the Discourse discussion mentioned hosting on RTD.  If that’s been 
rejected, it should be noted in the Rejected Ideas section.  I’ll miss the RTD 
preview feature, but I think PEPs are simple and regular enough that a good 
local build environment can suffice for now.

Cheers,
-Barry

> On Jan 10, 2022, at 02:44, pyt...@quite.org.uk wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I would like to announce PEP 676 to python-dev. It is a meta-PEP focussed on 
> modernising the PEP build infrastructure. From the abstract, "This PEP 
> addresses the infrastructure around rendering PEP files from reStructuredText 
> files to HTML webpages. We aim to specify a self-contained and maintainable 
> solution for PEP readers, authors, and editors."
> 
> Link: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0676/
> Rendered through the PEP 676 system: https://python.github.io/peps/pep-0676/
> 
> Please see https://discuss.python.org/t/10774 for prior discussion and to 
> give any feedback.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Adam Turner
> ___
> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> Message archived at 
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/C675PLAF535FSUL7KX4FS2NK6ZPPQ3HB/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP
___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/E7PK6TLVDJIYXVGFA6ZYPB24KLJASPUI/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 676 -- PEP Infrastructure Process

[Adam Turner]

Sorry to be awkward, but please may we discuss this on discourse? I don't want 
the discussion to be bifurcated for people trying to follow this PEP.

I'll reply inline there.

A
___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/FTY47G7GK443RNQILPW5I323Q2VZUJLE/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/

[Python-Dev] Re: Suggestion: a little language for type definitions

[Greg Ewing]

On 9/01/22 2:46 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

if you can read expressions:

 spam(eggs | cheese,  aardvark)

then you can read type expressions:

 Spam[Eggs | Cheese, Aardvark]


That's like me saying that I can read Greek just because I know
how to pronounce the letters. I do, but that doesn't mean I
know what any of it means!

Most of the effort of learning to read type expressions, in any
language, is learning their semantics, which is very different
from value expressions. Whether they happen to superficially
resemble other parts of the language is pretty much irrelevant
to me.

--
Greg
___
Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
Message archived at 
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/AXDVYGAUCKKWOMDDHGEMEIA6PUKDCHVT/
Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/