[Python-Dev] IRC #python-dev channel is now on Libera Chat (bye bye Freenode)

[Victor Stinner]

Hi,

The #python-dev IRC channel moves from Freenode to Libera Chat:
https://libera.chat/ I'm connected as vstinner, see you there ;-) Join
the channel if you would like to talk about the development of Python
itself (the VM, bytecode, stdlib, etc.)!

Moreover, bots notifications (GitHub, buildbots, bugs.python.org) are
now in a new dedicated channel #python-dev-notifs so humans can talk
together again! :-) The migration is on-going, right now some
notifications are still on Freenode.

--

Yesterday evening, Freenode admins decided to take the control of the
#python-fr channel on Freenode (which now redirects to a new
##python-fr channel), only because the channel topic contained
"libera"! The french Python association ("AFPy") managing #python-fr
lost control and decided to migrate to Libera Chat (libera.chat).
Announcement in french:
https://www.afpy.org/posts/actualites/1622023152

I'm disappointed by how the events are going. At least, it motivated
me to move bots notfications ;-)

Victor
-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
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[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

[Mark Shannon]

Hi Brett,

On 26/05/2021 3:56 am, Brett Cannon wrote:



On Tue., May 25, 2021, 12:58 Guido van Rossum, > wrote:


On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 12:34 PM Brett Cannon mailto:br...@python.org>> wrote:


I personally think it should be a Standards Track PEP. This PEP
isn't documenting some detail like PEP 13 or some release
schedule, but is instead proposing a rather major change to the
interpreter which a lot of us will need to understand in order
to support the code (and I do realize the entire area of "what
requires a PEP and what doesn't" is very hazy).


Does that also mean you think the design should be completely hashed
out and approved by the SC ahead of merging the implementation?
Given the amount of work, that would run into another issue -- many
of the details of the design can't be fixed until the implementation
has proceeded, and we'd end up with a long-living fork of the
implementation followed by a giant merge. My preference (and my
promise at the Language Summit) is to avoid mega-PRs and instead
work on this incrementally.

Now, we've done similar things before (for example, the pattern
matching implementation was a long-living branch), but the
difference is that for pattern matching, the implementation followed
the design, whereas for the changes to the bytecode interpreter that
we're undertaking here, much of the architecture will be designed as
the implementation proceeds, based on what we learn during the
implementation.

Or do you think the "Standards Track" PEP should just codify general
agreement that we're going to implement a specializing adaptive
interpreter, with the level of detail that's currently in the PEP?


This. Having this as an informational PEP that's already marked as 
Active seems off somehow to me. I guess it feels more "we're doing this" 
(which I know isn't intended) rather than "this is our plan, what do you 
all think? All good?"


The PEP is a "we're doing this" document. Maybe it shouldn't be a PEP at 
all? I've changed its status to "draft" for now.


I want to document what we are doing as publicly as possible and a PEP 
seems like a good way to do that.


I also want to reiterate that the PEP doesn't propose changing the 
language, libraries, Python API or C API in any way. It is just 
information about how we plan to speed up the interpreter.





I don't recall other standards track PEPs that don't also spell out
the specification of the proposal in detail.


I also am not aware of a PEP that's proposed restructuring the eval loop 
like this either. 😉 I'm personally fine with the detail and saying 
details may shift as things move forward and lessons are learned based 
on the scope and updating the PEP accordingly. But that's just me and I 
don't know if others agree (hence the reason I'm suggesting this be 
Standards Track).


Suppose it were a standards PEP, what would that mean if it were rejected?
Rejection of a PEP is a choice in favor of an alternative, but what is 
that alternative?
You can't simply say the "status quo" as that would implicitly prevent 
any development at all on the bytecode interpreter.



Cheers,
Mark.


p.s.

For those not at the language summit, here's my grand plan for CPython:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1_cvQUwO2WWsaySyCmIy9nj9by4JKnkbiPCqtluLP3Mg
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[Python-Dev] Re: IRC #python-dev channel is now on Libera Chat (bye bye Freenode)

[Victor Stinner]

By the way, #python also moved to Libera Chat: https://www.pound-python.org/

The PSF (Group Contact) owns  #python*, #pypa* and #psf* channels on Libera.

I updated the IRC informations in the Python devguide.

I'm still migrating #python-dev-notifs bots to Libera.

Victor

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 12:46 PM Victor Stinner  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> The #python-dev IRC channel moves from Freenode to Libera Chat:
> https://libera.chat/ I'm connected as vstinner, see you there ;-) Join
> the channel if you would like to talk about the development of Python
> itself (the VM, bytecode, stdlib, etc.)!
>
> Moreover, bots notifications (GitHub, buildbots, bugs.python.org) are
> now in a new dedicated channel #python-dev-notifs so humans can talk
> together again! :-) The migration is on-going, right now some
> notifications are still on Freenode.
>
> --
>
> Yesterday evening, Freenode admins decided to take the control of the
> #python-fr channel on Freenode (which now redirects to a new
> ##python-fr channel), only because the channel topic contained
> "libera"! The french Python association ("AFPy") managing #python-fr
> lost control and decided to migrate to Libera Chat (libera.chat).
> Announcement in french:
> https://www.afpy.org/posts/actualites/1622023152
>
> I'm disappointed by how the events are going. At least, it motivated
> me to move bots notfications ;-)
>
> Victor
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.



-- 
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
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[Python-Dev] Re: IMPORTANT: Python 3.10b2 release blockers

[Pablo Galindo Salgado]

Hi,

Friendly reminder that the Python3.10 beta 2 is still blocked on:

https://bugs.python.org/issue42972

Thanks for your help,

Regards from stormy London,
Pablo Galindo Salgado

On Mon, 24 May 2021 at 23:54, Pablo Galindo Salgado 
wrote:

> Small correction:
>
> https://bugs.python.org/issue40222: "Zero cost" exception handling
>
> and the segfaults on these buildbots:
>
>
> https://buildbot.python.org/all/#/builders/582/builds/165/steps/5/logs/stdio
> https://buildbot.python.org/all/#/builders/543/builds/190
>
> are 3-11 (main branch) only, but they are also quite important to get
> fixed as soon as possible,
> so the buildbot failures don't pile up.
>
> On the other hand, seems that there is a nasty race condition on
> test_asyncio and many of the refleak
> builders for 3.10 hang, rendering them not usefull:
>
> https://buildbot.python.org/all/#/builders/693/builds/21
> https://buildbot.python.org/all/#/builders/677/builds/22
> https://buildbot.python.org/all/#/builders/669/builds/22
> ...
>
> You can access the release dashboard for the buildbots here:
>
> https://buildbot.python.org/all/#/release_status
>
> On Mon, 24 May 2021 at 23:45, Pablo Galindo Salgado 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Tomorrow is the scheduled release of Python 3.10 beta 2 but unfortunately
>> we have several release blockers:
>>
>> https://bugs.python.org/issue41282: Deprecate and remove distutils
>> https://bugs.python.org/issue40222: "Zero cost" exception handling
>> https://bugs.python.org/issue42972: [C API] Heap types (PyType_FromSpec)
>> must fully implement the GC protocol
>> https://bugs.python.org/issue44043: 3.10 b1 armhf Bus Error in hashlib
>> test: test_gil
>>
>> We also have the address sanitizer buildbot failing :
>>
>>
>> https://buildbot.python.org/all/#/builders/582/builds/165/steps/5/logs/stdio
>>
>> and some segmentation faults on the fedora stable buildbot:
>>
>> https://buildbot.python.org/all/#/builders/543/builds/190
>>
>> Some of these issues have PRs but some of them have not. Please, if you
>> are involved or you maintain one of the
>> areas involved in these issues, take a look at them and act with one of
>> the following:
>>
>> * Fix the issue making a PR
>> * Review an existing PR and / or merge it
>> * If you intend to mark it as a deferred blocker, please provide a
>> rationale and contact me first by pinging me in the issue.
>>
>> Until these issues are fixed or deferred, the release team will not be
>> able to make a new beta release.
>>
>> Thanks for your help,
>>
>> Regards from stormy London,
>> Pablo Galindo Salgado
>>
>
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[Python-Dev] Re: IRC #python-dev channel is now on Libera Chat (bye bye Freenode)

[Guido van Rossum]

Could someone provide more background on this event? Are there wars going
on between different IRC providers?!?

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 6:43 AM Victor Stinner  wrote:

> By the way, #python also moved to Libera Chat:
> https://www.pound-python.org/
>
> The PSF (Group Contact) owns  #python*, #pypa* and #psf* channels on
> Libera.
>
> I updated the IRC informations in the Python devguide.
>
> I'm still migrating #python-dev-notifs bots to Libera.
>
> Victor
>
> On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 12:46 PM Victor Stinner 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > The #python-dev IRC channel moves from Freenode to Libera Chat:
> > https://libera.chat/ I'm connected as vstinner, see you there ;-) Join
> > the channel if you would like to talk about the development of Python
> > itself (the VM, bytecode, stdlib, etc.)!
> >
> > Moreover, bots notifications (GitHub, buildbots, bugs.python.org) are
> > now in a new dedicated channel #python-dev-notifs so humans can talk
> > together again! :-) The migration is on-going, right now some
> > notifications are still on Freenode.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Yesterday evening, Freenode admins decided to take the control of the
> > #python-fr channel on Freenode (which now redirects to a new
> > ##python-fr channel), only because the channel topic contained
> > "libera"! The french Python association ("AFPy") managing #python-fr
> > lost control and decided to migrate to Libera Chat (libera.chat).
> > Announcement in french:
> > https://www.afpy.org/posts/actualites/1622023152
> >
> > I'm disappointed by how the events are going. At least, it motivated
> > me to move bots notfications ;-)
> >
> > Victor
> > --
> > Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
>
>
>
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
> ___
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>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*

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[Python-Dev] Re: IRC #python-dev channel is now on Libera Chat (bye bye Freenode)

[Fred Drake]

I found this article about what's up with FreeNode:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-the-crown-prince-of-korea/


  -Fred

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 11:48 AM Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> Could someone provide more background on this event? Are there wars going
> on between different IRC providers?!?
>
> On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 6:43 AM Victor Stinner 
> wrote:
>
>> By the way, #python also moved to Libera Chat:
>> https://www.pound-python.org/
>>
>> The PSF (Group Contact) owns  #python*, #pypa* and #psf* channels on
>> Libera.
>>
>> I updated the IRC informations in the Python devguide.
>>
>> I'm still migrating #python-dev-notifs bots to Libera.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 12:46 PM Victor Stinner 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > The #python-dev IRC channel moves from Freenode to Libera Chat:
>> > https://libera.chat/ I'm connected as vstinner, see you there ;-) Join
>> > the channel if you would like to talk about the development of Python
>> > itself (the VM, bytecode, stdlib, etc.)!
>> >
>> > Moreover, bots notifications (GitHub, buildbots, bugs.python.org) are
>> > now in a new dedicated channel #python-dev-notifs so humans can talk
>> > together again! :-) The migration is on-going, right now some
>> > notifications are still on Freenode.
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Yesterday evening, Freenode admins decided to take the control of the
>> > #python-fr channel on Freenode (which now redirects to a new
>> > ##python-fr channel), only because the channel topic contained
>> > "libera"! The french Python association ("AFPy") managing #python-fr
>> > lost control and decided to migrate to Libera Chat (libera.chat).
>> > Announcement in french:
>> > https://www.afpy.org/posts/actualites/1622023152
>> >
>> > I'm disappointed by how the events are going. At least, it motivated
>> > me to move bots notfications ;-)
>> >
>> > Victor
>> > --
>> > Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
>> ___
>> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
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>> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/R3YTKHTUPMF3W5UH2YP4ACXHBXTQLQUE/
>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>
>
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
> 
> ___
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> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>


-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.
"There is nothing more uncommon than common sense."
  --Frank Lloyd Wright
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[Python-Dev] Re: IRC #python-dev channel is now on Libera Chat (bye bye Freenode)

[Guido van Rossum]

What a mess! I hope the PSF is healthy enough that that will never happen
to us.

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 8:55 AM Ammar Askar  wrote:

> This section on wikipedia
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode#Ownership_change_and_conflict
> and this article have a good summary:
>
> https://hackaday.com/2021/05/20/freenode-debacle-prompts-staff-exodus-new-network/
>
> Essentially what happened is that freenode was bought out a while ago
> by a company, there was some dispute over access between the "rightful
> owners" and the self-organized freenode staff. This caused the
> freenode staff to resign and start a new network called libera.chat.
> After that a bunch of channels moved over to libera chat and most
> recently if your topic mentioned libera.chat, the new freenode owners
> will take it over, ban anyone from chatting in it and change the topic
> (as happened with #python-fr).
>


-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*

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[Python-Dev] Re: IRC #python-dev channel is now on Libera Chat (bye bye Freenode)

[Thomas Wouters]

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 5:49 PM Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> Could someone provide more background on this event? Are there wars going
> on between different IRC providers?!?
>

Not really a war between them, more like a split community. A change of
administration on Freenode (which led to practically all the staff, all of
them volunteers, resigning) followed by policy changes many people disagree
with. The staff that left Freenode started a new network instead, which is
libera.chat. The policy changes and the behaviour of the new staff on
Freenode are problematic for a number of reasons, so the move to
libera.chat is pretty much a no-brainer.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-the-crown-prince-of-korea/
has some of the backstory, and there's
https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409 with more
details on what went wrong, as well as observations like
https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1397384190644002818


>
> On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 6:43 AM Victor Stinner 
> wrote:
>
>> By the way, #python also moved to Libera Chat:
>> https://www.pound-python.org/
>>
>> The PSF (Group Contact) owns  #python*, #pypa* and #psf* channels on
>> Libera.
>>
>> I updated the IRC informations in the Python devguide.
>>
>> I'm still migrating #python-dev-notifs bots to Libera.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 12:46 PM Victor Stinner 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > The #python-dev IRC channel moves from Freenode to Libera Chat:
>> > https://libera.chat/ I'm connected as vstinner, see you there ;-) Join
>> > the channel if you would like to talk about the development of Python
>> > itself (the VM, bytecode, stdlib, etc.)!
>> >
>> > Moreover, bots notifications (GitHub, buildbots, bugs.python.org) are
>> > now in a new dedicated channel #python-dev-notifs so humans can talk
>> > together again! :-) The migration is on-going, right now some
>> > notifications are still on Freenode.
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Yesterday evening, Freenode admins decided to take the control of the
>> > #python-fr channel on Freenode (which now redirects to a new
>> > ##python-fr channel), only because the channel topic contained
>> > "libera"! The french Python association ("AFPy") managing #python-fr
>> > lost control and decided to migrate to Libera Chat (libera.chat).
>> > Announcement in french:
>> > https://www.afpy.org/posts/actualites/1622023152
>> >
>> > I'm disappointed by how the events are going. At least, it motivated
>> > me to move bots notfications ;-)
>> >
>> > Victor
>> > --
>> > Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
>> ___
>> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
>> Message archived at
>> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/R3YTKHTUPMF3W5UH2YP4ACXHBXTQLQUE/
>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>>
>
>
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
> 
> ___
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>


-- 
Thomas Wouters 

Hi! I'm an email virus! Think twice before sending your email to help me
spread!
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[Python-Dev] Re: IRC #python-dev channel is now on Libera Chat (bye bye Freenode)

[Ammar Askar]

This section on wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode#Ownership_change_and_conflict
and this article have a good summary:
https://hackaday.com/2021/05/20/freenode-debacle-prompts-staff-exodus-new-network/

Essentially what happened is that freenode was bought out a while ago
by a company, there was some dispute over access between the "rightful
owners" and the self-organized freenode staff. This caused the
freenode staff to resign and start a new network called libera.chat.
After that a bunch of channels moved over to libera chat and most
recently if your topic mentioned libera.chat, the new freenode owners
will take it over, ban anyone from chatting in it and change the topic
(as happened with #python-fr).
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[Python-Dev] Re: IRC #python-dev channel is now on Libera Chat (bye bye Freenode)

[Thomas Wouters]

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 6:01 PM Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> What a mess! I hope the PSF is healthy enough that that will never happen
> to us.
>

Well, yes, so do I! :) In reality, though, I would say that the PSF has
enough safe-guards, checks and balances, community support and legal clout
to prevent this kind of thing. Freenode had none of that, just a company
created for their conferences which then assumed control over the rest of
the IP.

(This kind of thing is one of the reasons it's important for the PSF
membership and PSF board to adequately represent the actual Python
community. PSF Board elections are soon! Everyone should think about
running for the board :)


> On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 8:55 AM Ammar Askar  wrote:
>
>> This section on wikipedia
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode#Ownership_change_and_conflict
>> and this article have a good summary:
>>
>> https://hackaday.com/2021/05/20/freenode-debacle-prompts-staff-exodus-new-network/
>>
>> Essentially what happened is that freenode was bought out a while ago
>> by a company, there was some dispute over access between the "rightful
>> owners" and the self-organized freenode staff. This caused the
>> freenode staff to resign and start a new network called libera.chat.
>> After that a bunch of channels moved over to libera chat and most
>> recently if your topic mentioned libera.chat, the new freenode owners
>> will take it over, ban anyone from chatting in it and change the topic
>> (as happened with #python-fr).
>>
>
>
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
> 
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-- 
Thomas Wouters 

Hi! I'm an email virus! Think twice before sending your email to help me
spread!
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[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

[Brett Cannon]

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 4:23 AM Mark Shannon  wrote:

> Hi Brett,
>
> On 26/05/2021 3:56 am, Brett Cannon wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue., May 25, 2021, 12:58 Guido van Rossum,  > > wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 12:34 PM Brett Cannon  > > wrote:
> >
> >
> > I personally think it should be a Standards Track PEP. This PEP
> > isn't documenting some detail like PEP 13 or some release
> > schedule, but is instead proposing a rather major change to the
> > interpreter which a lot of us will need to understand in order
> > to support the code (and I do realize the entire area of "what
> > requires a PEP and what doesn't" is very hazy).
> >
> >
> > Does that also mean you think the design should be completely hashed
> > out and approved by the SC ahead of merging the implementation?
> > Given the amount of work, that would run into another issue -- many
> > of the details of the design can't be fixed until the implementation
> > has proceeded, and we'd end up with a long-living fork of the
> > implementation followed by a giant merge. My preference (and my
> > promise at the Language Summit) is to avoid mega-PRs and instead
> > work on this incrementally.
> >
> > Now, we've done similar things before (for example, the pattern
> > matching implementation was a long-living branch), but the
> > difference is that for pattern matching, the implementation followed
> > the design, whereas for the changes to the bytecode interpreter that
> > we're undertaking here, much of the architecture will be designed as
> > the implementation proceeds, based on what we learn during the
> > implementation.
> >
> > Or do you think the "Standards Track" PEP should just codify general
> > agreement that we're going to implement a specializing adaptive
> > interpreter, with the level of detail that's currently in the PEP?
> >
> >
> > This. Having this as an informational PEP that's already marked as
> > Active seems off somehow to me. I guess it feels more "we're doing this"
> > (which I know isn't intended) rather than "this is our plan, what do you
> > all think? All good?"
>
> The PEP is a "we're doing this" document. Maybe it shouldn't be a PEP at
> all? I've changed its status to "draft" for now.
>

Thanks!


>
> I want to document what we are doing as publicly as possible and a PEP
> seems like a good way to do that.
>
> I also want to reiterate that the PEP doesn't propose changing the
> language, libraries, Python API or C API in any way. It is just
> information about how we plan to speed up the interpreter.
>

Sure, but it isn't a minor change either; if it was then you would have
done it already. 😉 This is an architectural shift in how the interpreter
works, so it isn't a minor thing.


> >
> >
> > I don't recall other standards track PEPs that don't also spell out
> > the specification of the proposal in detail.
> >
> >
> > I also am not aware of a PEP that's proposed restructuring the eval loop
> > like this either. 😉 I'm personally fine with the detail and saying
> > details may shift as things move forward and lessons are learned based
> > on the scope and updating the PEP accordingly. But that's just me and I
> > don't know if others agree (hence the reason I'm suggesting this be
> > Standards Track).
>
> Suppose it were a standards PEP, what would that mean if it were rejected?
>

Then we don't do it.


> Rejection of a PEP is a choice in favor of an alternative, but what is
> that alternative?
>

The status quo.


> You can't simply say the "status quo" as that would implicitly prevent
> any development at all on the bytecode interpreter.
>

I don't think that logic holds; if *your *approach happened to be rejected
in terms of how to change how the interpreter works it doesn't mean that
*no* approach would be accepted (and you can tweak this to be about
performance or anything else). PEPs are not submitted where it's "pick from
these 2 options" or "pick this or you can never touch the topic/idea again".

I think this is all a question of process and how do we want to handle
these sort of architectural changes that don't necessarily impact APIs (and
thus users directly), but do impact all of us from a perspective of
maintenance and understanding? Typically we haven't worried about it
because quite frankly none of us have had the time to really tackle
something this large or it was so speculative it was done outside of the
repo (e.g. gilectomy). If people want to stick with informal consent, then
great! If people want to have a more formal discussion, that works too! But
my point is this falls into an odd gray area in our overall process that I
am suggesting we try to figure out.

-Brett


>
>
> Cheers,
> Mark.
>
>
> p.s.
>
> For those not at the language summit, here's my grand plan for CPython:
>
> https://docs.google.com/presentat

[Python-Dev] Re: IRC #python-dev channel is now on Libera Chat (bye bye Freenode)

[Greg Ewing]

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 8:55 AM Ammar Askar > wrote:


most
recently if your topic mentioned libera.chat, the new freenode owners
will take it over, ban anyone from chatting in it and change the topic


My goodness. Let's hope the new owners eventually learn that behaving
like spoilt 7-year-olds is no way to run a successful company.

--
Greg

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[Python-Dev] Re: IRC #python-dev channel is now on Libera Chat (bye bye Freenode)

[Dan Stromberg]

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 4:25 PM Greg Ewing 
wrote:

> > On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 8:55 AM Ammar Askar  > > wrote:
> >
> > most
> > recently if your topic mentioned libera.chat, the new freenode owners
> > will take it over, ban anyone from chatting in it and change the
> topic
>
> My goodness. Let's hope the new owners eventually learn that behaving
> like spoilt 7-year-olds is no way to run a successful company.
>

Sometimes this is a cultural issue.  In at least some parts of Asia it
appears to be accepted.
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[Python-Dev] Re: IRC #python-dev channel is now on Libera Chat (bye bye Freenode)

[Oscar Benjamin]

On Thu, 27 May 2021 at 00:52, Dan Stromberg  wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 4:25 PM Greg Ewing  
> wrote:
>>
>> > On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 8:55 AM Ammar Askar > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > most
>> > recently if your topic mentioned libera.chat, the new freenode owners
>> > will take it over, ban anyone from chatting in it and change the topic
>>
>> My goodness. Let's hope the new owners eventually learn that behaving
>> like spoilt 7-year-olds is no way to run a successful company.
>
> Sometimes this is a cultural issue.  In at least some parts of Asia it 
> appears to be accepted.

I don't think this is a cultural issue so much as an issue with a
particular person.

I've never really used IRC or freenode but I realised when reading
about this that Andrew Lee sounded like someone I'd heard about
before. Turns out I do know people who have had direct dealings with
him. The message from those people is clear: avoid him like the
plague. The impression I have is that his intentions are likely not
malicious but his effect (on freenode or anything else) could easily
be devastating in any case.


--
Oscar
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