[Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 3.3.5 release candidate 2

[Georg Brandl]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On behalf of the Python development team, I'm happy to announce
the release of Python 3.3.5, release candidate 2.

Python 3.3.5 includes a fix for a regression in zipimport in 3.3.4
(see http://bugs.python.org/issue20621) and a few other bugs.

Python 3.3 includes a range of improvements of the 3.x series, as well
as easier porting between 2.x and 3.x.  In total, almost 500 API items
are new or improved in Python 3.3.  For a more extensive list of
changes in the 3.3 series, see

http://docs.python.org/3.3/whatsnew/3.3.html

To download Python 3.3.5 visit:

http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.3.5/


This is a preview release, please report any bugs to

 http://bugs.python.org/

The final release is scheduled one week from now.


Enjoy!

- -- 
Georg Brandl, Release Manager
georg at python.org
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team and 3.3's contributors)
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[Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Victor Stinner]

Hi,

I would like to know if the cherry-picking rule still applies for
Python 3.4 final? Can I open an issue if I want to see a changeset in
the final version? I'm asking for a typo in tracemalloc documentation:
http://bugs.python.org/issue20814
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/a9058b772807

Victor
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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Larry Hastings]

On 03/03/2014 03:01 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:

Hi,

I would like to know if the cherry-picking rule still applies for
Python 3.4 final? Can I open an issue if I want to see a changeset in
the final version?


Sadly, yes.


//arry/
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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Victor Stinner]

2014-03-03 13:13 GMT+01:00 Larry Hastings :
> I would like to know if the cherry-picking rule still applies for
> Python 3.4 final? Can I open an issue if I want to see a changeset in
> the final version?
>
> Sadly, yes.

Ok, I created:
http://bugs.python.org/issue20843

Why do you say "sadly"? It's up to you to decide if a change can wait
Python 3.4.1 or not. Feel free to close my cherry-pick issue as
wontfix.

Victor
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Re: [Python-Dev] unicode_string future, str -> basestring, fix or feature

[Chris Barker]

On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> AFACT, in that message Victor was only talking about allowing Unicode
> filenames.
>
...

> Finally, in most places Python 2.7 *does* handle Unicode filenames just
> fine.
>

I'm a bit confused. In this example:

http://bugs.python.org/issue18695

You are proposing that the issue should be considered a bug and a
well-written patch accepted?

Or is is just too late for 2.7 ?

Personally I think that having some, but not all file functions accept
unicode paths is pretty brokenand fixing these kinds of thing will ease
2 to 3 transition, so a good thing overall.

- Chris


-- 

Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer

Emergency Response Division
NOAA/NOS/OR&R(206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115   (206) 526-6317   main reception

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Re: [Python-Dev] unicode_string future, str -> basestring, fix or feature

[Guido van Rossum]

On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Chris Barker  wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>
>> AFACT, in that message Victor was only talking about allowing Unicode
>> filenames.
>>
> ...
>
>>  Finally, in most places Python 2.7 *does* handle Unicode filenames just
>> fine.
>>
>
> I'm a bit confused. In this example:
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue18695
>
> You are proposing that the issue should be considered a bug and a
> well-written patch accepted?
>
> Or is is just too late for 2.7 ?
>
> Personally I think that having some, but not all file functions accept
> unicode paths is pretty brokenand fixing these kinds of thing will ease
> 2 to 3 transition, so a good thing overall.
>

Agreed.

Given that the claim "Python 2 doesn't support Unicode filenames" is
factually incorrect (in Python 2.7, most filesystem calls in fact do
support Unicode, at least on some platforms), I think individual functions
in the os module that are found lacking should be considered bugs, and if
someone goes through the effort to supply an otherwise acceptable fix, we
shouldn't reject it on the basis that we don't want to consider supporting
Unicode filenames.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Terry Reedy]

On 3/3/2014 7:13 AM, Larry Hastings wrote:

On 03/03/2014 03:01 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:

Hi,

I would like to know if the cherry-picking rule still applies for
Python 3.4 final? Can I open an issue if I want to see a changeset in
the final version?


Sadly, yes.


Doc changes appear online within hours. I should expect that releases 
pull in and bundle the latest version of the doc possible, just before 
the release. Is this not the usual procedure?


--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Georg Brandl]

Am 03.03.2014 19:31, schrieb Terry Reedy:
> On 3/3/2014 7:13 AM, Larry Hastings wrote:
>> On 03/03/2014 03:01 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I would like to know if the cherry-picking rule still applies for
>>> Python 3.4 final? Can I open an issue if I want to see a changeset in
>>> the final version?
>>
>> Sadly, yes.
> 
> Doc changes appear online within hours. I should expect that releases 
> pull in and bundle the latest version of the doc possible, just before 
> the release. Is this not the usual procedure?

No, that would be mostly pointless churn, with all the usual dangers
of last minute changes.

Georg

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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Larry Hastings]

On 03/03/2014 05:05 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:

2014-03-03 13:13 GMT+01:00 Larry Hastings :

I would like to know if the cherry-picking rule still applies for
Python 3.4 final? Can I open an issue if I want to see a changeset in
the final version?

Sadly, yes.

Ok, I created:
http://bugs.python.org/issue20843

Why do you say "sadly"? It's up to you to decide if a change can wait
Python 3.4.1 or not. Feel free to close my cherry-pick issue as
wontfix.


It was intended as gentle comedy.


//arry/
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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Nick Coghlan]

On 4 Mar 2014 07:32, "Larry Hastings"  wrote:
>
> On 03/03/2014 05:05 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:
>>
>> 2014-03-03 13:13 GMT+01:00 Larry Hastings :
>>>
>>> I would like to know if the cherry-picking rule still applies for
>>> Python 3.4 final? Can I open an issue if I want to see a changeset in
>>> the final version?
>>>
>>> Sadly, yes.
>>
>> Ok, I created:
>> http://bugs.python.org/issue20843
>>
>> Why do you say "sadly"? It's up to you to decide if a change can wait
>> Python 3.4.1 or not. Feel free to close my cherry-pick issue as
>> wontfix.
>
>
> It was intended as gentle comedy.

Related question - have you decided yet whether or not to do an rc3?

I ask, as I believe it would be good to give the folks like Mike Bayer and
Armin Ronacher (who picked up test coverage gaps in rc2 via the Alembic and
Flask test suites respectively) a chance to rerun their tests before we
declare 3.4 final.

Cheers,
Nick.

>
>
> /arry
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Mark Lawrence]

On 03/03/2014 21:38, Nick Coghlan wrote:


On 4 Mar 2014 07:32, "Larry Hastings" mailto:la...@hastings.org>> wrote:
 >
 > On 03/03/2014 05:05 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:
 >>
 >> 2014-03-03 13:13 GMT+01:00 Larry Hastings mailto:la...@hastings.org>>:
 >>>
 >>> I would like to know if the cherry-picking rule still applies for
 >>> Python 3.4 final? Can I open an issue if I want to see a changeset in
 >>> the final version?
 >>>
 >>> Sadly, yes.
 >>
 >> Ok, I created:
 >> http://bugs.python.org/issue20843
 >>
 >> Why do you say "sadly"? It's up to you to decide if a change can wait
 >> Python 3.4.1 or not. Feel free to close my cherry-pick issue as
 >> wontfix.
 >
 >
 > It was intended as gentle comedy.

Related question - have you decided yet whether or not to do an rc3?

I ask, as I believe it would be good to give the folks like Mike Bayer
and Armin Ronacher (who picked up test coverage gaps in rc2 via the
Alembic and Flask test suites respectively) a chance to rerun their
tests before we declare 3.4 final.

Cheers,
Nick.



Will this impact on the decision http://bugs.python.org/issue20846 ?

--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.


Mark Lawrence

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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Barry Warsaw]

On Mar 03, 2014, at 10:36 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

>Will this impact on the decision http://bugs.python.org/issue20846 ?

Issue 20808 is my own pet cherry pick for 3.4.

-Barry


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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Victor Stinner]

>
>
>> Will this impact on the decision http://bugs.python.org/issue20846 ?
>

This issue has been closed as wontfix. It has no patch and must be reported
to pip, not python.

Victor
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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Nick Coghlan]

On 4 Mar 2014 08:40, "Mark Lawrence"  wrote:
>
> On 03/03/2014 21:38, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 4 Mar 2014 07:32, "Larry Hastings" > > wrote:
>>  >
>>  > On 03/03/2014 05:05 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:
>>  >>
>>  >> 2014-03-03 13:13 GMT+01:00 Larry Hastings > >:
>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>> I would like to know if the cherry-picking rule still applies for
>>  >>> Python 3.4 final? Can I open an issue if I want to see a changeset
in
>>  >>> the final version?
>>  >>>
>>  >>> Sadly, yes.
>>  >>
>>  >> Ok, I created:
>>  >> http://bugs.python.org/issue20843
>>  >>
>>  >> Why do you say "sadly"? It's up to you to decide if a change can wait
>>  >> Python 3.4.1 or not. Feel free to close my cherry-pick issue as
>>  >> wontfix.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > It was intended as gentle comedy.
>>
>> Related question - have you decided yet whether or not to do an rc3?
>>
>> I ask, as I believe it would be good to give the folks like Mike Bayer
>> and Armin Ronacher (who picked up test coverage gaps in rc2 via the
>> Alembic and Flask test suites respectively) a chance to rerun their
>> tests before we declare 3.4 final.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>>
>
> Will this impact on the decision http://bugs.python.org/issue20846 ?

No. I never claimed pip was bug free (any more than CPython itself is),
merely the best available option.

File a bug against pip (assuming there isn't one already), get it fixed,
and we'll bundle the fixed version with the next CPython maintenance
release.

Cheers,
Nick.

>
> --
> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what
you can do for our language.
>
> Mark Lawrence
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
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>
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Issue20846 [was: Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?]

[Ned Deily]

In article 
,
 Nick Coghlan  wrote:
> On 4 Mar 2014 08:40, "Mark Lawrence"  wrote:
> > Will this impact on the decision http://bugs.python.org/issue20846 ?
> No. I never claimed pip was bug free (any more than CPython itself is),
> merely the best available option.
> 
> File a bug against pip (assuming there isn't one already), get it fixed,
> and we'll bundle the fixed version with the next CPython maintenance
> release.

FTR, the behavior documented in Issue20846 has nothing to do with either 
pip, setuptools, or python3.4.  See updates to the issue.

One could argue about whether pip should check and, by default, not 
offer to download and install packages that are marked in PyPI as not 
being compatible with the Python version being used, e.g. trying to 
install a Python 2 only package with a Python 3 or vice versa.  AFAIK, 
neither pip nor easy_install (setuptools) has ever done that.  And, in 
any case, it would not have helped with the package in question as it 
does not specify in its package metadata (as shown on PyPI) with which 
versions of Pythons it is supported.  I don't know whether a request for 
such a feature has ever been made for pip; I didn't see any on a quick 
search of the pip tracker.  But this is off-topic for python-dev.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 n...@acm.org

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Re: [Python-Dev] Issue20846 [was: Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?]

[Nick Coghlan]

On 4 Mar 2014 09:49, "Ned Deily"  wrote:
>
> In article
> ,
>  Nick Coghlan  wrote:
> > On 4 Mar 2014 08:40, "Mark Lawrence"  wrote:
> > > Will this impact on the decision http://bugs.python.org/issue20846 ?
> > No. I never claimed pip was bug free (any more than CPython itself is),
> > merely the best available option.
> >
> > File a bug against pip (assuming there isn't one already), get it fixed,
> > and we'll bundle the fixed version with the next CPython maintenance
> > release.
>
> FTR, the behavior documented in Issue20846 has nothing to do with either
> pip, setuptools, or python3.4.  See updates to the issue.
>
> One could argue about whether pip should check and, by default, not
> offer to download and install packages that are marked in PyPI as not
> being compatible with the Python version being used, e.g. trying to
> install a Python 2 only package with a Python 3 or vice versa.  AFAIK,
> neither pip nor easy_install (setuptools) has ever done that.  And, in
> any case, it would not have helped with the package in question as it
> does not specify in its package metadata (as shown on PyPI) with which
> versions of Pythons it is supported.  I don't know whether a request for
> such a feature has ever been made for pip; I didn't see any on a quick
> search of the pip tracker.  But this is off-topic for python-dev.

As one final comment on this: allowing proper environmental constraints
that installers can reliably enforce is one of the goals of the metadata
2.0 effort. The existing metadata is not considered sufficiently accurate
to allow it to be used as the basis for automated enforcement.

Regards,
Nick.

>
> --
>  Ned Deily,
>  n...@acm.org
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Larry Hastings]

On 03/03/2014 01:38 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

Related question - have you decided yet whether or not to do an rc3?

I ask, as I believe it would be good to give the folks like Mike Bayer 
and Armin Ronacher (who picked up test coverage gaps in rc2 via the 
Alembic and Flask test suites respectively) a chance to rerun their 
tests before we declare 3.4 final.




I hadn't planned on it.  I'll reach out to those two and see if they can 
deal with tarballs, rather than requiring binary installers--if tarballs 
works for them, I'll steer them towards the 3.4 merge status tarballs 
and ping them when I spin up some new ones.



//arry/
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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Nick Coghlan]

On 4 March 2014 13:35, Larry Hastings  wrote:
> On 03/03/2014 01:38 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> Related question - have you decided yet whether or not to do an rc3?
>
> I ask, as I believe it would be good to give the folks like Mike Bayer and
> Armin Ronacher (who picked up test coverage gaps in rc2 via the Alembic and
> Flask test suites respectively) a chance to rerun their tests before we
> declare 3.4 final.
>
>
> I hadn't planned on it.  I'll reach out to those two and see if they can
> deal with tarballs, rather than requiring binary installers--if tarballs
> works for them, I'll steer them towards the 3.4 merge status tarballs and
> ping them when I spin up some new ones.

All of our development guides for testing against trunk are designed
around running from a Mercurial checkout - it would *really* be whole
lot easier for everyone else that is trying to test the release if you
could just do a push from your release clone to a server side clone on
hg.python.org (the link to create one is on
http://hg.python.org/cpython/, and then it's just a hg push to publish
a mirror of the exact state of your current clone).

If you don't want to do an rc3 despite the cherry picked changes since
rc2, then you need to make it easy for people to test the changes
directly from the release branch. An opaque intermittently updated
tarball is not acceptable when none of our infrastructure is designed
to work that way. I was OK with just the tarball when I assumed you
would an rc3 if non-trivial defects were found in rc2. If that's not
the case, then we *need* a public mirror of your release clone.

Regards,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Larry Hastings]

On 03/03/2014 07:58 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

All of our development guides for testing against trunk are designed
around running from a Mercurial checkout - it would *really* be whole
lot easier for everyone else that is trying to test the release if you
could just do a push from your release clone to a server side clone on
hg.python.org (the link to create one is on
http://hg.python.org/cpython/, and then it's just a hg push to publish
a mirror of the exact state of your current clone).


I've pulled enough shenanigans over here (discarding and recreating the 
3.4 branch, rebasing) that I'm really glad I haven't made the revisions 
public.  And I'm not done, either, *yet another* really old revision has 
cropped up for cherry-picking.



//arry/
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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Nick Coghlan]

On 4 March 2014 14:20, Larry Hastings  wrote:
> On 03/03/2014 07:58 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> All of our development guides for testing against trunk are designed
> around running from a Mercurial checkout - it would *really* be whole
> lot easier for everyone else that is trying to test the release if you
> could just do a push from your release clone to a server side clone on
> hg.python.org (the link to create one is on
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/, and then it's just a hg push to publish
> a mirror of the exact state of your current clone).
>
>
> I've pulled enough shenanigans over here (discarding and recreating the 3.4
> branch, rebasing) that I'm really glad I haven't made the revisions public.
> And I'm not done, either, *yet another* really old revision has cropped up
> for cherry-picking.

The clones doesn't need to be updatable, we just need an easy way to
do "hg clone " to get a release branch to test against.

It doesn't matter if hg pull doesn't work later - we just need you to
make it as easy as possible for us to help you test things, because if
there's not going to be an rc3 then we're running out of time to make
sure SQL Alchemy and Flask actually work properly on Python 3.4 final
(and I've been told the pkgutil bug that affected Flask may have
affected Vim as well).

Let *us* deal with the Mercurial problems - you can rebase and cherry
pick however the heck you want. But at the moment you're making it
*hard* for people to test the release, and that is scaring me - our
test coverage is a long way from 100%, so we *need* people running
third party test suites on the pre-release to spot coverage gaps the
way the Alembic and Flask test suites did.

Regards,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Larry Hastings]

On 03/03/2014 10:23 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

But at the moment you're making it
*hard* for people to test the release,


How?  How is testing against a tarball fundamentally different from 
testing against an hg-cloned repository?


I'm really not buying this.


//arry/
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Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

[Nick Coghlan]

On 4 March 2014 16:50, Larry Hastings  wrote:
>
> On 03/03/2014 10:23 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> But at the moment you're making it
> *hard* for people to test the release,
>
>
> How?  How is testing against a tarball fundamentally different from testing
> against an hg-cloned repository?
>
> I'm really not buying this.

Because there are *zero* instructions in the devguide for tarball
based testing. Can it be done? Yes. Is it properly documented such
that it is acceptable to rely on it as an essential part of the
release process? No.

*Never* have we done a feature release where we went dark for most of
the release candidate cycle - for past feature releases, the release
branch was made at the time of the first rc, and everything merged
during that time was subject to two committer review, and everything
merged to the release branch was automatically considered as a
candidate for including in the next rc/final release. After the switch
to Mercurial, the contents of the release branch might not be
*exactly* what ended up being released, but they were close enough for
all the purposes that anyone cared about. That's not the case here -
by instituting the new process where you stopped checking every commit
and instead required the creation of specific tracker issues, the
default branch of the main repo now has a bunch of stuff listed for
3.4.1 that is a mixture of 3.4.0 and 3.4.1 changes, so it's hard to
tell whether or not a particular change is going to make it into 3.4
final.

I was prepared to go along with that (since those that do the work get
to make the rules), but then you said you were going to go straight
from a release candidate that broke two of the most popular Python
projects to a final release with the release clone *still* offline for
reasons I do not understand. That is *not* OK - if we're skipping rc3
even though rc2 broke both Flask and SQL Alchemy (and possibly Vim),
then we need to be able to see *exactly* what is going to be
published, including the full history of which commits have been
cherry-picked, not just the end result as a tarball.

You've given people plenty of warning that you'll be rewriting history
in your release clone. That's fine, we can deal, especially for
throwaway testing clones - git users handle rewritten history as a
matter of course, and it really isn't that scary, even in Mercurial.
But the combination of skipping rc3 *and* keeping the release clone
offline is not a responsible course of action.

Regards,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
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