Re: [Python-Dev] r88516 - in python/branches/py3k/Python: dynload_aix.c dynload_dl.c dynload_hpux.c dynload_next.c dynload_os2.c dynload_shlib.c dynload_win.c importdl.c

[Victor Stinner]

Le mercredi 23 février 2011 à 08:35 +0100, Georg Brandl a écrit :
> This commit introduced tabs, at least in dynload_dl.c.

WHAT? No, I didn't introduced new tabs: dynload_dl.c always used tabs.

Anyway, I converted tabs to spaces in r88527.

Victor

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Re: [Python-Dev] %-formatting depracation

[Hrvoje Niksic]

On 02/22/2011 11:03 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

I think there are many people still finding %-style more practical for
simple uses,


It's also a clash of cultures. People coming from a C/Unix background 
typically find %-style format obvious and self-explanatory, while people 
coming from Java/DotNET background feel the same way about {}-style formats.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: deep question re dict as formatting input

[Eric Smith]

On 02/22/2011 07:32 PM, Eric Smith wrote:

On 2/22/2011 6:28 PM, Steve Holden wrote:


On Feb 22, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Eric Smith wrote:


Quoting PEP 3101:

An example of the 'getitem' syntax:

"My name is {0[name]}".format(dict(name='Fred'))

It should be noted that the use of 'getitem' within a format string
is much more limited than its conventional usage. In the above example,
the string 'name' really is the literal string 'name', not a variable
named 'name'. The rules for parsing an item key are very simple.
If it starts with a digit, then it is treated as a number, otherwise
it is used as a string.


That's not strictly true:


d = {"Steve":"Holden", "Guido":"van Rossum", 21.2:"float"}
d[21.1]

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
KeyError: 21.1

d[21.2]

'float'

"{0[21.2]}".format(d)

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
KeyError: '21.2'




You are correct, I didn't exactly implement the PEP on this point,
probably as a shortcut. I think there's an issue somewhere that
discusses this, but I can't find it. The CPython implementation is
really using "If every character is a digit, then it is treated as an
integer, otherwise it is used as a string".

See find_name_split in Objects/stringlib/string_format.h, in particular
the call to get_integer() and the interpretation of the result.


Just for the archives, I'll mention why it works this way. It's trying 
to support indexing by integers, as well as dictionary access using 
arbitrary keys. Both of course use the same syntax.


In this case it must convert the index values into ints:
>>> a = ['usr', 'var']
>>> '{0[0]} {0[1]}'.format(a)
'usr var'

And in this case it doesn't:
>>> a = {'one':'usr', 'two':'var'}
>>> '{0[one]} {0[two]}'.format(a)
'usr var'

Eric.
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Re: [Python-Dev] %-formatting depracation

[Xavier Morel]

On 2011-02-23, at 12:30 , Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
> On 02/22/2011 11:03 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> I think there are many people still finding %-style more practical for
>> simple uses,
> 
> It's also a clash of cultures. People coming from a C/Unix background 
> typically find %-style format obvious and self-explanatory, while people 
> coming from Java/DotNET background feel the same way about {}-style formats.
For Java it's debatable: the Java 5 string formatting APIs are all printf-style 
(java.io.PrintStream#printf[0], String#format[1], java.util.Formatter[2]).

The older java.text.MessageFormat[3] (still used a lot for property lists as 
it's built for localization among other things) does use {}-style, though one 
quite different than Python's.

[0] 
http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/docs/api/java/io/PrintStream.html#printf(java.lang.String,%20java.lang.Object...)
[1] 
http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/String.html#format(java.lang.String,%20java.lang.Object…)
[2] http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Formatter.html
[3] 
http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/docs/api/java/text/MessageFormat.html
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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[Nick Coghlan]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull  wrote:
> Jesus Cea writes:
>
>  > Every time I read a message from [long, incomplete list] and
>  > so many others python-devs (not an exhaustive list, if you are not
>  > there, you probably should, sorry :), I feel I am faking my
>  > knowledge of Python :-). I am a pretender :).
>
> Sure.  I suspect even some of those *on* the list feel that way
> sometimes.  That's what's so great about the list, the people who
> contribute!

I personally feel that way every time I realise just how much of the
standard library I have never even seriously looked at (let alone
used) and how much more there is to the Python ecosystem than just
CPython (subscribing to Planet Python and the python tag on Stack
Overflow has been truly eye opening in that regard).

Heck, some day I may even get around to learning how to build a proper
Python package ;)

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
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Re: [Python-Dev] svn outage on Friday

[Nick Coghlan]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 4:22 PM, "Martin v. Löwis"  wrote:
> The ViewVC configuration has significantly changed, so I originally
> tried to adjust the old configuration. I went now the other path of
> configuring starting with the new configuration template. I may have
> broken things in the process; if so, please let me know. Post the
> specific URL that gives troubles.

Seems to be OK now when checking from my home machine - I'll check the
misbehaving box again tomorrow.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
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Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: deep question re dict as formatting input

[Nick Coghlan]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Senthil Kumaran  wrote:
> """
> Because keys are not quote-delimited, it is not possible to
>    specify arbitrary dictionary keys (e.g., the strings "10" or
>    ":-]") from within a format string.
> """

I was curious as to whether or not nested substitution could be used
to avoid that limitation, but it would seem not:

>>> "{0[{1}]}".format(d, 21.2)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
KeyError: '{1}'

Turns out that was also a deliberate design choice:

"""
These 'internal' replacement fields can only occur in the format
specifier part of the replacement field.  Internal replacement fields
cannot themselves have format specifiers.  This implies also that
replacement fields cannot be nested to arbitrary levels.
"""

Ah, how (much more) confused would we be if we didn't have the PEPs
and mailing list archives to remind ourselves of what we were thinking
years ago...

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
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Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: deep question re dict as formatting input

[R. David Murray]

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:32:56 -0500, Eric Smith  wrote:
> You are correct, I didn't exactly implement the PEP on this point, 
> probably as a shortcut. I think there's an issue somewhere that 
> discusses this, but I can't find it. The CPython implementation is 
> really using "If every character is a digit, then it is treated as an 
> integer, otherwise it is used as a string".

Perhaps you are thinking of http://bugs.python.org/issue7951.  Not
directly on point, but related.

--
R. David Murray  www.bitdance.com
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[Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Antoine Pitrou]

Hello,

I think it was a slight mistake to remove the link to the issue tracker
from the sidebar in the "core development" section. Dave Beazley just
complained about it
(http://twitter.com/dabeaz/status/40397577916661760) and I think it
will probably confuse other people too. Could we add it back ?

cheers

Antoine.


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Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: deep question re dict as formatting input

[Eric Smith]

On 02/23/2011 09:42 AM, R. David Murray wrote:

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:32:56 -0500, Eric Smith  wrote:

You are correct, I didn't exactly implement the PEP on this point,
probably as a shortcut. I think there's an issue somewhere that
discusses this, but I can't find it. The CPython implementation is
really using "If every character is a digit, then it is treated as an
integer, otherwise it is used as a string".


Perhaps you are thinking of http://bugs.python.org/issue7951.  Not
directly on point, but related.


Yes, that's the one I was thinking of. Thanks, David.

I'm not sure I agree with all of the points raised there, but it does 
some additional background on the issue.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Giampaolo Rodolà]

+1, I often use that link as well.

2011/2/23 Antoine Pitrou :
>
> Hello,
>
> I think it was a slight mistake to remove the link to the issue tracker
> from the sidebar in the "core development" section. Dave Beazley just
> complained about it
> (http://twitter.com/dabeaz/status/40397577916661760) and I think it
> will probably confuse other people too. Could we add it back ?
>
> cheers
>
> Antoine.
>
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: deep question re dict as formatting input

[Steve Holden]

On Feb 23, 2011, at 5:42 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

> Ah, how (much more) confused would we be if we didn't have the PEPs
> and mailing list archives to remind ourselves of what we were thinking
> years ago...
> 
True. And how much more useful it would be if it were incorporated into the 
documentation after implementation. Too much of the format() stuff is 
demonstrated rather than explained.

regards
 Steve

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Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: deep question re dict as formatting input

[Ethan Furman]

Eric Smith wrote:

On 2/22/2011 6:28 PM, Steve Holden wrote:

On Feb 22, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Eric Smith wrote:

Quoting PEP 3101:

An example of the 'getitem' syntax:

"My name is {0[name]}".format(dict(name='Fred'))

It should be noted that the use of 'getitem' within a format string
is much more limited than its conventional usage.  In the above example,
the string 'name' really is the literal string 'name', not a variable
named 'name'.  The rules for parsing an item key are very simple.
If it starts with a digit, then it is treated as a number, otherwise
it is used as a string.


That's not strictly true:

--> d = {"Steve":"Holden", "Guido":"van Rossum", 21.2:"float"}
--> d[21.1]
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in
KeyError: 21.1
--> d[21.2]
'float'
--> "{0[21.2]}".format(d)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in
KeyError: '21.2'



You are correct, I didn't exactly implement the PEP on this point, 
probably as a shortcut. I think there's an issue somewhere that 
discusses this, but I can't find it. The CPython implementation is 
really using "If every character is a digit, then it is treated as an 
integer, otherwise it is used as a string".


Given the representation issues with floating point, I think the current 
behavior is desirable.  Also, leaving digits with periods as strings 
would, I think, be more useful (Dewey Decimal, anyone?).


~Ethan~
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Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: deep question re dict as formatting input

[Eric Smith]

> On Feb 23, 2011, at 5:42 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
>> Ah, how (much more) confused would we be if we didn't have the PEPs
>> and mailing list archives to remind ourselves of what we were thinking
>> years ago...
>>
> True. And how much more useful it would be if it were incorporated into
> the documentation after implementation. Too much of the format() stuff is
> demonstrated rather than explained.

I think the documentation team has been pretty good about responding to
format() issues that have been brought up in the bug tracker.

Eric.


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[Python-Dev] 3.2.0 == 20th anniversary release

[Terry Reedy]

As pointed out by Ramiro Morales on the Python-Argentina list
(quoting Guido's blog post
http://python-history.blogspot.com/2009/01/brief-timeline-of-python.html
)
Python 0.9.0 was released on 20 Feb 1991

Python 3.2.0 was released on 20 Feb 2011

Python's come a long way.
I look forward to the next 20.

--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Brett Cannon]

I won't add the link back, but I will try to change the global link on the
website to point to the devguide. python.org/dev/ at this point exists
purely to not break pre-existing links.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 07:58, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> I think it was a slight mistake to remove the link to the issue tracker
> from the sidebar in the "core development" section. Dave Beazley just
> complained about it
> (http://twitter.com/dabeaz/status/40397577916661760) and I think it
> will probably confuse other people too. Could we add it back ?
>
> cheers
>
> Antoine.
>
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] 3.2.0 == 20th anniversary release

[Guido van Rossum]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Terry Reedy  wrote:
> As pointed out by Ramiro Morales on the Python-Argentina list
> (quoting Guido's blog post
> http://python-history.blogspot.com/2009/01/brief-timeline-of-python.html
> )
> Python 0.9.0 was released on 20 Feb 1991
>
> Python 3.2.0 was released on 20 Feb 2011
>
> Python's come a long way.
> I look forward to the next 20.

Me too!

BTW very nice of Georg to time it this way.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Antoine Pitrou]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 10:30:54 -0800
Brett Cannon  wrote:
> I won't add the link back, but I will try to change the global link on the
> website to point to the devguide. python.org/dev/ at this point exists
> purely to not break pre-existing links.

There are items there that are out of scope for the dev guide
(e.g. "Python.org Maintenance and Administration").
Also, I do believe that being able to report a bug immediately is very
important. Reporting a bug doesn't mean you want to contribute code; it
just means you've found an issue and would like the community to know
(and possibly fix it).

Regards

Antoine.
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r88503 - in python/branches/py3k: Lib/lib2to3/__main__.py Tools/scripts/2to3

[Brett Cannon]

I assume you are having me do this because you still plan to cut separate
releases. Is there a minimum Python version that needs to be supported?

On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 18:23, Benjamin Peterson wrote:

> 2011/2/22 brett.cannon :
> > Author: brett.cannon
> > Date: Tue Feb 22 20:12:43 2011
> > New Revision: 88503
> >
> > Log:
> > Add lib2to3.__main__ to make it easier for debugging purposes to run
> 2to3.
>
> Please revert this and do it in the sandbox.
>
> >
> > Added:
> >   python/branches/py3k/Lib/lib2to3/__main__.py
> > Modified:
> >   python/branches/py3k/Tools/scripts/2to3
> >
> > Added: python/branches/py3k/Lib/lib2to3/__main__.py
> >
> ==
> > --- (empty file)
> > +++ python/branches/py3k/Lib/lib2to3/__main__.pyTue Feb 22
> 20:12:43 2011
> > @@ -0,0 +1,4 @@
> > +import sys
> > +from .main import main
> > +
> > +sys.exit(main("lib2to3.fixes"))
> >
> > Modified: python/branches/py3k/Tools/scripts/2to3
> >
> ==
> > --- python/branches/py3k/Tools/scripts/2to3 (original)
> > +++ python/branches/py3k/Tools/scripts/2to3 Tue Feb 22 20:12:43 2011
> > @@ -1,5 +1,4 @@
> >  #!/usr/bin/env python
> > -import sys
> > -from lib2to3.main import main
> > +import runpy
> >
> > -sys.exit(main("lib2to3.fixes"))
> > +runpy.run_module('lib2to3', run_name='__main__', alter_sys=True)
> > ___
> > Python-checkins mailing list
> > python-check...@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-checkins
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] 3.2.0 == 20th anniversary release

[Georg Brandl]

On 23.02.2011 19:51, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Terry Reedy  wrote:
>> As pointed out by Ramiro Morales on the Python-Argentina list
>> (quoting Guido's blog post
>> http://python-history.blogspot.com/2009/01/brief-timeline-of-python.html
>> )
>> Python 0.9.0 was released on 20 Feb 1991
>>
>> Python 3.2.0 was released on 20 Feb 2011
>>
>> Python's come a long way.
>> I look forward to the next 20.
> 
> Me too!
> 
> BTW very nice of Georg to time it this way.

As much as I'd like to claim it, it's pure coincidence where my
planning is concerned.  I knew that Python 0.9 was in 1991, so I
knew about 20 years, but not about the exact date.  Very nice!

Maybe it was a subconscious thing :)

cheers,
Georg


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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[Alexander Belopolsky]

On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Jesus Cea  wrote:
..
> Issue filed. It already has a patch. That was fast!. Now I can sit back
> waiting for 3.2.1 before touching my project again :). Mixed feelings
> about the waiting. I hope it is short.

It looks like you don't need delay your project: if you spell encoding
as "latin-1", your pickle loads just fine:


>>> with open("z.pickle", mode="rb") as f: pickle.load(f, encoding="latin-1")
...
{'ya_volcados': {'comment': ''}}


With encoding="latin1", it does fail:

>>> with open("z.pickle", mode="rb") as f: pickle.load(f, encoding="latin1")
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
ValueError: operation forbidden on released memoryview object

(For those not following the tracker issue, the z.pickle file was
posted at .)

There is still a bug, which is best demonstrated by

>>> pickle.loads(b'\x80\x02U\x00.', encoding='latin1')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
ValueError: operation forbidden on released memoryview object

The fact that the above works with encoding='latin-1',

>>> pickle.loads(b'\x80\x02U\x00.', encoding='latin-1')
''

shows that there is probably more than one bug.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Brett Cannon]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 10:52, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 10:30:54 -0800
> Brett Cannon  wrote:
> > I won't add the link back, but I will try to change the global link on
> the
> > website to point to the devguide. python.org/dev/ at this point exists
> > purely to not break pre-existing links.
>
> There are items there that are out of scope for the dev guide
> (e.g. "Python.org Maintenance and Administration").
> Also, I do believe that being able to report a bug immediately is very
> important. Reporting a bug doesn't mean you want to contribute code; it
> just means you've found an issue and would like the community to know
> (and possibly fix it).
>

Those are all linked from the devguide in the Resources section. IOW that
sidebar is in the index doc already.


>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
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Re: [Python-Dev] 3.2.0 == 20th anniversary release

[Benjamin Peterson]

2011/2/23 Georg Brandl :
> On 23.02.2011 19:51, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Terry Reedy  wrote:
>>> As pointed out by Ramiro Morales on the Python-Argentina list
>>> (quoting Guido's blog post
>>> http://python-history.blogspot.com/2009/01/brief-timeline-of-python.html
>>> )
>>> Python 0.9.0 was released on 20 Feb 1991
>>>
>>> Python 3.2.0 was released on 20 Feb 2011
>>>
>>> Python's come a long way.
>>> I look forward to the next 20.
>>
>> Me too!
>>
>> BTW very nice of Georg to time it this way.
>
> As much as I'd like to claim it, it's pure coincidence where my
> planning is concerned.  I knew that Python 0.9 was in 1991, so I
> knew about 20 years, but not about the exact date.  Very nice!
>
> Maybe it was a subconscious thing :)

Or you realized later how nice it would be, grabbed the time machine,
and fixed 10 release blockers on the 19th. :)


-- 
Regards,
Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r88503 - in python/branches/py3k: Lib/lib2to3/__main__.py Tools/scripts/2to3

[Benjamin Peterson]

2011/2/23 Brett Cannon :
> I assume you are having me do this because you still plan to cut separate
> releases. Is there a minimum Python version that needs to be supported?

2.5 but that's only for benchmarking purposes IIRC.



-- 
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Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r88503 - in python/branches/py3k: Lib/lib2to3/__main__.py Tools/scripts/2to3

[Brett Cannon]

Does the benchmarking use the 2to3 script? I'm asking because package
execution is not supported that far back.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:38, Benjamin Peterson wrote:

> 2011/2/23 Brett Cannon :
> > I assume you are having me do this because you still plan to cut separate
> > releases. Is there a minimum Python version that needs to be supported?
>
> 2.5 but that's only for benchmarking purposes IIRC.
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Benjamin
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r88503 - in python/branches/py3k: Lib/lib2to3/__main__.py Tools/scripts/2to3

[Benjamin Peterson]

2011/2/23 Brett Cannon :
> Does the benchmarking use the 2to3 script? I'm asking because package
> execution is not supported that far back.

Correct. But I suppose, it wouldn't really be harmful to add __main__.
Just a no-op.



-- 
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Benjamin
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Re: [Python-Dev] 3.2.0 == 20th anniversary release

[Martin v. Löwis]

> Or you realized later how nice it would be, grabbed the time machine,
> and fixed 10 release blockers on the 19th. :)

No no no. He actually grabbed the time machine, drove 20 years back,
and gave it to Guido so he could release Python 0.9 in time. Guido
then kept the machine ever since.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Martin v. Löwis]

Am 23.02.2011 19:30, schrieb Brett Cannon:
> I won't add the link back

Why not? It's a useful link apparently. The "Developer's Guide"
link does not hint that it will be the only way to find the
bug tracker.

It's like adding the download page at the end of the tutorial -
"you can get Python only if you read through this".

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Antoine Pitrou]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 11:21:58 -0800
Brett Cannon  wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 10:52, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 10:30:54 -0800
> > Brett Cannon  wrote:
> > > I won't add the link back, but I will try to change the global link on
> > the
> > > website to point to the devguide. python.org/dev/ at this point exists
> > > purely to not break pre-existing links.
> >
> > There are items there that are out of scope for the dev guide
> > (e.g. "Python.org Maintenance and Administration").
> > Also, I do believe that being able to report a bug immediately is very
> > important. Reporting a bug doesn't mean you want to contribute code; it
> > just means you've found an issue and would like the community to know
> > (and possibly fix it).
> >
> 
> Those are all linked from the devguide in the Resources section. IOW that
> sidebar is in the index doc already.

Yes, but I think it would be better if that link was more proeminent,
either on python.org, or in the devguide. Currently it has become much
less visible (you have to scroll down a page or two and hunt it in that
section named "resources", assuming you know it is there at all).

Of course, the Web site in general is not that good at presenting
useful information first ;)

Regards

Antoine.
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Re: [Python-Dev] 3.2.0 == 20th anniversary release

[Barry Warsaw]

On Feb 23, 2011, at 08:43 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:

>> Or you realized later how nice it would be, grabbed the time machine,
>> and fixed 10 release blockers on the 19th. :)
>
>No no no. He actually grabbed the time machine, drove 20 years back,
>and gave it to Guido so he could release Python 0.9 in time. Guido
>then kept the machine ever since.

Keanu Reeves should definitely play Guido.  I guess that means Alex Winter
gets to play Georg.

-Barry


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Re: [Python-Dev] r88516 - in python/branches/py3k/Python: dynload_aix.c dynload_dl.c dynload_hpux.c dynload_next.c dynload_os2.c dynload_shlib.c dynload_win.c importdl.c

[Georg Brandl]

On 23.02.2011 12:31, Victor Stinner wrote:
> Le mercredi 23 février 2011 à 08:35 +0100, Georg Brandl a écrit :
>> This commit introduced tabs, at least in dynload_dl.c.
> 
> WHAT? No, I didn't introduced new tabs: dynload_dl.c always used tabs.

Oh, sorry then: I thought the whole codebase had been converted.  But
apparently, some Gaulish villages resisted :)

Georg

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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Brett Cannon]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:53, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 11:21:58 -0800
> Brett Cannon  wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 10:52, Antoine Pitrou 
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 10:30:54 -0800
> > > Brett Cannon  wrote:
> > > > I won't add the link back, but I will try to change the global link
> on
> > > the
> > > > website to point to the devguide. python.org/dev/ at this point
> exists
> > > > purely to not break pre-existing links.
> > >
> > > There are items there that are out of scope for the dev guide
> > > (e.g. "Python.org Maintenance and Administration").
> > > Also, I do believe that being able to report a bug immediately is very
> > > important. Reporting a bug doesn't mean you want to contribute code; it
> > > just means you've found an issue and would like the community to know
> > > (and possibly fix it).
> > >
> >
> > Those are all linked from the devguide in the Resources section. IOW that
> > sidebar is in the index doc already.
>
> Yes, but I think it would be better if that link was more proeminent,
> either on python.org, or in the devguide. Currently it has become much
> less visible (you have to scroll down a page or two and hunt it in that
> section named "resources", assuming you know it is there at all).
>

The Resources section can move up the page, or at least the issue tracker
link. We are not talking about a page that is hard to edit (unlike
python.org).

-Brett


>
> Of course, the Web site in general is not that good at presenting
> useful information first ;)
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Brett Cannon]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:52, "Martin v. Löwis"  wrote:

> Am 23.02.2011 19:30, schrieb Brett Cannon:
> > I won't add the link back
>
> Why not? It's a useful link apparently. The "Developer's Guide"
> link does not hint that it will be the only way to find the
> bug tracker.
>

But python.org/dev/ is a dead page. I was trying to avoid adding a redirect
for python.org/dev/ as I was afraid that it would lead to the website doing
something silly like redirecting everything below that URL, but obviously
this can continue since people seem to think that python.org/dev/ has
anything useful on it (which it does not).

-Brett


>
> It's like adding the download page at the end of the tutorial -
> "you can get Python only if you read through this".
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Brett Cannon]

I just added a Quick Links section to the devguide at the very top which is
short and to the point. I also committed to pydotorg for python.org/dev/ to
redirect to docs.python.org/devguide/, so this whole discussion is dealt
with IMO.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 12:06, Brett Cannon  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:53, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 11:21:58 -0800
>> Brett Cannon  wrote:
>> > On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 10:52, Antoine Pitrou 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 10:30:54 -0800
>> > > Brett Cannon  wrote:
>> > > > I won't add the link back, but I will try to change the global link
>> on
>> > > the
>> > > > website to point to the devguide. python.org/dev/ at this point
>> exists
>> > > > purely to not break pre-existing links.
>> > >
>> > > There are items there that are out of scope for the dev guide
>> > > (e.g. "Python.org Maintenance and Administration").
>> > > Also, I do believe that being able to report a bug immediately is very
>> > > important. Reporting a bug doesn't mean you want to contribute code;
>> it
>> > > just means you've found an issue and would like the community to know
>> > > (and possibly fix it).
>> > >
>> >
>> > Those are all linked from the devguide in the Resources section. IOW
>> that
>> > sidebar is in the index doc already.
>>
>> Yes, but I think it would be better if that link was more proeminent,
>> either on python.org, or in the devguide. Currently it has become much
>> less visible (you have to scroll down a page or two and hunt it in that
>> section named "resources", assuming you know it is there at all).
>>
>
> The Resources section can move up the page, or at least the issue tracker
> link. We are not talking about a page that is hard to edit (unlike
> python.org).
>
> -Brett
>
>
>>
>> Of course, the Web site in general is not that good at presenting
>> useful information first ;)
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Antoine.
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>
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] 3.2.0 == 20th anniversary release

[Georg Brandl]

On 23.02.2011 20:43, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> Or you realized later how nice it would be, grabbed the time machine,
>> and fixed 10 release blockers on the 19th. :)
> 
> No no no. He actually grabbed the time machine, drove 20 years back,
> and gave it to Guido so he could release Python 0.9 in time. Guido
> then kept the machine ever since.

Uh oh. Temporal mechanics gives me headaches.

Georg

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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[James Y Knight]

On Feb 23, 2011, at 3:05 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:

> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:52, "Martin v. Löwis"  wrote:
> Am 23.02.2011 19:30, schrieb Brett Cannon:
> > I won't add the link back
> 
> Why not? It's a useful link apparently. The "Developer's Guide"
> link does not hint that it will be the only way to find the
> bug tracker.
> 
> But python.org/dev/ is a dead page. I was trying to avoid adding a redirect 
> for python.org/dev/ as I was afraid that it would lead to the website doing 
> something silly like redirecting everything below that URL, but obviously 
> this can continue since people seem to think that python.org/dev/ has 
> anything useful on it (which it does not).

It seems unfortunate that the "Core Development" link now points directly to 
the devguide, since it unexpectedly breaks the navigation UI. It seemed rather 
more useful and consistent to have "Core Development" show the page with quick 
links.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Martin v. Löwis]

> But python.org/dev/  is a dead page. I was
> trying to avoid adding a redirect for python.org/dev/
>  as I was afraid that it would lead to the
> website doing something silly like redirecting everything below that
> URL, but obviously this can continue since people seem to think that
> python.org/dev/  has anything useful on it
> (which it does not).

Well, *I* ran into the problem because I hadn't reloaded the main page,
and "Core Development" would still point to /dev.

Now that I see that "Core Development" points to /devguide,
I change my request to "please add the tracker link to the side menu
of /devguide" (preferably along with a source repository link,
and a linked title "More" going to #resources).

As for redirects: it's certainly possible to redirect ^/dev$ to
/devguide, leaving /dev..* alone. I can set this up if you want me to.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Brett Cannon]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 12:38, James Y Knight  wrote:

>
> On Feb 23, 2011, at 3:05 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:52, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>
>> Am 23.02.2011 19:30, schrieb Brett Cannon:
>> > I won't add the link back
>>
>> Why not? It's a useful link apparently. The "Developer's Guide"
>> link does not hint that it will be the only way to find the
>> bug tracker.
>>
>
> But python.org/dev/ is a dead page. I was trying to avoid adding a
> redirect for python.org/dev/ as I was afraid that it would lead to the
> website doing something silly like redirecting everything below that URL,
> but obviously this can continue since people seem to think that
> python.org/dev/ has anything useful on it (which it does not).
>
>
> It seems unfortunate that the "Core Development" link now points directly
> to the devguide, since it unexpectedly breaks the navigation UI. It seemed
> rather more useful and consistent to have "Core Development" show the page
> with quick links.
>

Honestly, working on pydotorg is too bloody painful to even conceive of
doing this purely to keep a single link on www.python.org.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[Guido van Rossum]

I'm guessing that one of these encoding names is recognized by the C
code while the other one takes the slow path via the aliasing code.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Alexander Belopolsky
 wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Jesus Cea  wrote:
> ..
>> Issue filed. It already has a patch. That was fast!. Now I can sit back
>> waiting for 3.2.1 before touching my project again :). Mixed feelings
>> about the waiting. I hope it is short.
>
> It looks like you don't need delay your project: if you spell encoding
> as "latin-1", your pickle loads just fine:
>
>
 with open("z.pickle", mode="rb") as f: pickle.load(f, encoding="latin-1")
> ...
> {'ya_volcados': {'comment': ''}}
>
>
> With encoding="latin1", it does fail:
>
 with open("z.pickle", mode="rb") as f: pickle.load(f, encoding="latin1")
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "", line 1, in 
> ValueError: operation forbidden on released memoryview object
>
> (For those not following the tracker issue, the z.pickle file was
> posted at .)
>
> There is still a bug, which is best demonstrated by
>
 pickle.loads(b'\x80\x02U\x00.', encoding='latin1')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "", line 1, in 
> ValueError: operation forbidden on released memoryview object
>
> The fact that the above works with encoding='latin-1',
>
 pickle.loads(b'\x80\x02U\x00.', encoding='latin-1')
> ''
>
> shows that there is probably more than one bug.
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-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[Alexander Belopolsky]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> I'm guessing that one of these encoding names is recognized by the C
> code while the other one takes the slow path via the aliasing code.

This is absolutely right.  In fact I am going to propose adding
strcmp(lower, "latin1") to the following test in
PyUnicode_AsEncodedString():


else if ((strcmp(lower, "latin-1") == 0) ||
 (strcmp(lower, "iso-8859-1") == 0))
return PyUnicode_EncodeLatin1(...

I'll open a separate issue for that.  In Python's own stdlib and tests
"latin1" is a more common spelling than "latin-1", so it makes sense
to optimize it.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Brett Cannon]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 12:51, "Martin v. Löwis"  wrote:

> > But python.org/dev/  is a dead page. I was
> > trying to avoid adding a redirect for python.org/dev/
> >  as I was afraid that it would lead to the
> > website doing something silly like redirecting everything below that
> > URL, but obviously this can continue since people seem to think that
> > python.org/dev/  has anything useful on it
> > (which it does not).
>
> Well, *I* ran into the problem because I hadn't reloaded the main page,
> and "Core Development" would still point to /dev.
>
> Now that I see that "Core Development" points to /devguide,
> I change my request to "please add the tracker link to the side menu
> of /devguide" (preferably along with a source repository link,
> and a linked title "More" going to #resources).
>

I'll see what I can do. I added a Quick Links section at the very top of the
main page so that can at least hold you over.


>
> As for redirects: it's certainly possible to redirect ^/dev$ to
> /devguide, leaving /dev..* alone. I can set this up if you want me to.
>

Please. Or double-check what I put into pydotorg's redirect.txt will work
properly.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Alexander Belopolsky wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>> I'm guessing that one of these encoding names is recognized by the C
>> code while the other one takes the slow path via the aliasing code.
> 
> This is absolutely right.  In fact I am going to propose adding
> strcmp(lower, "latin1") to the following test in
> PyUnicode_AsEncodedString():
> 
> 
>   else if ((strcmp(lower, "latin-1") == 0) ||
>  (strcmp(lower, "iso-8859-1") == 0))
> return PyUnicode_EncodeLatin1(...
> 
> I'll open a separate issue for that.  In Python's own stdlib and tests
> "latin1" is a more common spelling than "latin-1", so it makes sense
> to optimize it.

"Latin-1" is the official name and the one used internally by Python,
so it would be good to have the test suite and Python code in general
to use that variant of the name (just as "utf-8" is preferred over
"utf8").

Instead of adding more aliases to the C code, please change the
encoding names in the stdlib and test suite.

Thanks,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Feb 23 2011)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/


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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[Alexander Belopolsky]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 4:23 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
..
> "Latin-1" is the official name and the one used internally by Python,
> so it would be good to have the test suite and Python code in general
> to use that variant of the name (just as "utf-8" is preferred over
> "utf8").
>
> Instead of adding more aliases to the C code, please change the
> encoding names in the stdlib and test suite.

I cannot agree with you on this one.  Official or not, "latin-1" is
much less commonly used than "latin1".   Currently decode("latin1") is
10x slower than  decode("latin-1") on short strings.  We already have
a check for "iso-8859-1" alias in PyUnicode_AsEncodedString().  Adding
"latin1" (and possibly "utf8" as well) is likely to speed up many
applications at minimal cost.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[James Y Knight]

On Feb 23, 2011, at 4:00 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 12:38, James Y Knight  wrote:
> 
> On Feb 23, 2011, at 3:05 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:52, "Martin v. Löwis"  wrote:
>> Am 23.02.2011 19:30, schrieb Brett Cannon:
>> > I won't add the link back
>> 
>> Why not? It's a useful link apparently. The "Developer's Guide"
>> link does not hint that it will be the only way to find the
>> bug tracker.
>> 
>> But python.org/dev/ is a dead page. I was trying to avoid adding a redirect 
>> for python.org/dev/ as I was afraid that it would lead to the website doing 
>> something silly like redirecting everything below that URL, but obviously 
>> this can continue since people seem to think that python.org/dev/ has 
>> anything useful on it (which it does not).
> 
> It seems unfortunate that the "Core Development" link now points directly to 
> the devguide, since it unexpectedly breaks the navigation UI. It seemed 
> rather more useful and consistent to have "Core Development" show the page 
> with quick links.
> 
> Honestly, working on pydotorg is too bloody painful to even conceive of doing 
> this purely to keep a single link onwww.python.org.

Well, presumably at least 5 links: Devguide, PEP index, buildbot, issue 
tracker, link to source code browser. But sure, I'm just a user, I have no idea 
how hard it is to edit a page on pydotorg (and no, I don't really want to 
know). But I seriously cannot imagine it's so hard that you can't leave a page 
with a few links there, that had already been written!

Note how clicking everything else in the left navbar makes useful links appear 
below the item, and the rest of the page keep the same theme/general layout. 
"Core Development" is now the unexpected exception to that UI consistency, and 
is less useful because of it.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Alexander Belopolsky wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 4:23 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
> ..
>> "Latin-1" is the official name and the one used internally by Python,
>> so it would be good to have the test suite and Python code in general
>> to use that variant of the name (just as "utf-8" is preferred over
>> "utf8").
>>
>> Instead of adding more aliases to the C code, please change the
>> encoding names in the stdlib and test suite.
> 
> I cannot agree with you on this one.  Official or not, "latin-1" is
> much less commonly used than "latin1".   Currently decode("latin1") is
> 10x slower than  decode("latin-1") on short strings.  We already have
> a check for "iso-8859-1" alias in PyUnicode_AsEncodedString().  Adding
> "latin1" (and possibly "utf8" as well) is likely to speed up many
> applications at minimal cost.

Fair enough, then add "latin1" and "utf8" to both PyUnicode_Decode()
and PyUnicode_AsEncodedString().

Still, the stdlib and test suite should be examples of using the
correct names.

I only found these few cases where the wrong Latin-1 name is used
in the stdlib:

./distutils/command/bdist_wininst.py:
-- # convert back to bytes. "latin1" simply avoids any possible
-- encoding="latin1") as script:
-- script_data = script.read().encode("latin1")
./urllib/request.py:
-- data = base64.decodebytes(data.encode('ascii')).decode('latin1')
./asynchat.py:
-- encoding= 'latin1'
./ftplib.py:
-- encoding = "latin1"
./sre_parse.py:
-- encode = lambda x: x.encode('latin1')

I get 12 hits for the test suite.

Yet 108 for the correct name, so I can't follow your statement
that the wrong variant is used more often.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[Alexander Belopolsky]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 4:54 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
..
> Yet 108 for the correct name, so I can't follow your statement
> that the wrong variant is used more often.

Hmm, your grepping skills are probably better than mine. I get


$ grep -iw latin-1 Lib/*.py | wc -l
  24

and

$ grep -iw latin1 Lib/test/*.py | wc -l
  25

(I did get spurious hits with naive "grep latin1", so I retract my
"more often" claim and just say that both spellings are equally
common.)
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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[Alexander Belopolsky]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 4:23 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
..
> "Latin-1" is the official name and the one used internally by Python,

In what sense is "Latin-1" the official name?  The IANA charset
registry has the following listing


Name: ISO_8859-1:1987[RFC1345,KXS2]
MIBenum: 4
Source: ECMA registry
Alias: iso-ir-100
Alias: ISO_8859-1
Alias: ISO-8859-1 (preferred MIME name)
Alias: latin1
Alias: l1
Alias: IBM819
Alias: CP819
Alias: csISOLatin1

(See http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets)

"Latin-1" spelling does appear in various unicode.org documents, but
not in machine readable files as far as I can tell.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Alexander Belopolsky wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 4:54 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
> ..
>> Yet 108 for the correct name, so I can't follow your statement
>> that the wrong variant is used more often.
> 
> Hmm, your grepping skills are probably better than mine. I get
> 
> 
> $ grep -iw latin-1 Lib/*.py | wc -l
>   24
> 
> and
> 
> $ grep -iw latin1 Lib/test/*.py | wc -l
>   25
> 
> (I did get spurious hits with naive "grep latin1", so I retract my
> "more often" claim and just say that both spellings are equally
> common.)

I used a Python script based on re, perhaps that's why :-)

grep only counts lines, not multiple instances on a single line
and looking through the hits I found, there are a few false
positives such as 'latin-10' or 'iso-latin-1'. Without those,
I get 83 hits.

If you open a ticket for this, I'll add the list of hits to
that ticket.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[Alexander Belopolsky]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 5:21 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
..
> If you open a ticket for this, I'll add the list of hits to
> that ticket.
>

http://bugs.python.org/issue11303
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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[Ethan Furman]

M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

Still, the stdlib and test suite should be examples of using the
correct names.


I won't argue with the stdlib portion of your argument, but I would 
think that the best example of test code would be a complete and 
thorough check of all options.


~Ethan~
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Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 3.2

[Barry Warsaw]

On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:39 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:

>Le dimanche 20 février 2011 à 23:22 +0100, Georg Brandl a écrit :
>> On behalf of the Python development team, I'm delighted to announce
>> Python 3.2 final release.
>> 
>> Python 3.2 is a continuation of the efforts to improve and stabilize the
>> Python 3.x line.
>
>Congratulation to all Python developers for this wonderful release! And
>a special kudo to our release manager, Georg.

Indeed, great job Georg.  I hereby nominate you for Python 3.3 RM.  No good
deed goes unpunished. :)

>I hope that Python 3 is now stable enough to support migration of major
>projects like Django, Twisted or Zope. Other important projets like
>Distribute, Jinja2, PyQt, PyGObject, pygame, NumPy+SciPy and Sphinx are
>already compatible with Python 3.

Agreed!  I hope porting to Python 3 can be a major theme for Pycon this year.

-Barry


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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Alexander Belopolsky wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 4:23 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
> ..
>> "Latin-1" is the official name and the one used internally by Python,
> 
> In what sense is "Latin-1" the official name?  The IANA charset
> registry has the following listing
> 
> 
> Name: ISO_8859-1:1987[RFC1345,KXS2]
> MIBenum: 4
> Source: ECMA registry
> Alias: iso-ir-100
> Alias: ISO_8859-1
> Alias: ISO-8859-1 (preferred MIME name)
> Alias: latin1
> Alias: l1
> Alias: IBM819
> Alias: CP819
> Alias: csISOLatin1
> 
> (See http://www.iana.org/assignments/character-sets)

Those are registered character set names, not necessarily
standard names. Anyone can apply for new aliases to get
added to that list.

> "Latin-1" spelling does appear in various unicode.org documents, but
> not in machine readable files as far as I can tell.

"Latin-1" is short for "Latin Alphabet No. 1" and
started out as ECMA-94 in 1985 and 1986:

http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-094.htm

ISO then applied their numbering scheme for the character set
standard ISO-8859 in 1987 where "Latin-1" became "ISO-8859-1".
Note that this was before the Internet took off.

I assume that since the HTML standard used the more popular
name "Latin-1" for its definition of the default character set
and also made use of the term throughout the spec, it
became the de-facto standard name for that character set
at the time. I only learned about the term "ISO-8859-1"
when starting to dive into the Unicode world late in the
1990s.

"Latin-1" is also sometimes written as "ISO Latin-1", e.g.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537495(v=vs.85).aspx

For much the same reasons, "ISO-10646" never really became
popular, but "Unicode" eventually did.

"ECMA-262" or "ISO/IEC 16262" just doesn't sound as good as
"JavaScript" either :-)

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Feb 23 2011)
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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Martin v. Löwis]

> As for redirects: it's certainly possible to redirect ^/dev$ to
> /devguide, leaving /dev..* alone. I can set this up if you want me to.
> 
> 
> Please. Or double-check what I put into pydotorg's redirect.txt will
> work properly. 

What redirect.txt did you edit specifically?

I have now changed redirects.conf, and it seems to work fine. Please
let me know if there are any problems.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Brett Cannon]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 15:40, "Martin v. Löwis"  wrote:

> > As for redirects: it's certainly possible to redirect ^/dev$ to
> > /devguide, leaving /dev..* alone. I can set this up if you want me
> to.
> >
> >
> > Please. Or double-check what I put into pydotorg's redirect.txt will
> > work properly.
>
> What redirect.txt did you edit specifically?
>

It was beta.python.org/build/redirects.txt, but I went ahead and reverted
the change since your solution works.


>
> I have now changed redirects.conf, and it seems to work fine. Please
> let me know if there are any problems.
>

Works for me. Thanks, Martin!
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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[Alexander Belopolsky]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 6:32 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
> Alexander Belopolsky wrote:
..
>> In what sense is "Latin-1" the official name?  The IANA charset
>> registry has the following listing
>>
>>
>> Name: ISO_8859-1:1987                                    [RFC1345,KXS2]
>> MIBenum: 4
>> Source: ECMA registry
>> Alias: iso-ir-100
>> Alias: ISO_8859-1
>> Alias: ISO-8859-1 (preferred MIME name)
>> Alias: latin1
..
> "Latin-1" is short for "Latin Alphabet No. 1" and
> started out as ECMA-94 in 1985 and 1986:

This does not explain your preference of "Latin-1" over "Latin1".
Both are perfectly valid abbreviations for "Latin Alphabet No. 1".
The spelling without "-" has the advantage of being a valid Python
identifier and a module name.  The IANA registration for "latin1" and
lack of that for "latin-1" most likely indicates that the former is
more commonly found in machine readable metadata.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

M.-A. Lemburg writes:

 > "Latin-1" is short for "Latin Alphabet No. 1" [...].

 > I assume that since the HTML standard used the more popular
 > name "Latin-1" for its definition of the default character set
 > and also made use of the term throughout the spec, it
 > became the de-facto standard name for that character set
 > at the time.

As usual with de facto standards, it got "embraced and extended".
I've seen people seriously contend that Windows-1252 is an
"implementation" or (conformant) extension of "Latin-1", and that the
EURO SIGN is now a member of "Latin-1".  It's just too ambiguous for
my taste; I avoid it in discussions of character sets, preferring to
be thought idiosyncratic and pedantic.

As for the spelling, I think "Latin-1" is slightly more readable than
"Latin1", but the latter is in the same degree more typable.

 > For much the same reasons, "ISO-10646" never really became
 > popular, but "Unicode" eventually did.

No, there are much more important reasons why "Unicode" became
popular.  IMHO, as an encoding standard ISO-10646 had a slight edge
over Unicode in the early 1990s, before the two were unified as coded
character sets.  However, as a text processing system there simply was
no comparison.  Unicode provided a large number of standard
facilities, and was clearly set to add to those, that were way outside
of the scope of ISO 10646.  Claiming Unicode conformance was a much
bigger deal than ISO 10646 (not to mention having the "advantage" that
you could *optionally* save Intel shorts to disk without swabbing them
first).

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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[Dj Gilcrease]

Google Code search limited to python

latin1: 3,489 
http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=latin1+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search
latin-1: 5,604 
http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=latin-1+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search

utf8: 25,341 
http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=utf8+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search
utf-8: 179,806 
http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=utf-8+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search


Interesting that for Latin-1 the split of "wrong"/"right" is 40/60 and
the split for utf8 is 15/85
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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[Alexander Belopolsky]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Dj Gilcrease  wrote:
> Google Code search limited to python
>
> latin1: 3,489 
> http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=latin1+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search
> latin-1: 5,604 
> http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=latin-1+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search
>
> utf8: 25,341 
> http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=utf8+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search
> utf-8: 179,806 
> http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=utf-8+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search
>
>
> Interesting that for Latin-1 the split of "wrong"/"right" is 40/60 and
> the split for utf8 is 15/85

Your search is invalid.  You hit things such as Latin1ClassModel which
have no relevance to the issue at hand.
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Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 3.2

[Jesse Noller]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Barry Warsaw  wrote:
> On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:39 AM, Victor Stinner wrote:
>
>>Le dimanche 20 février 2011 à 23:22 +0100, Georg Brandl a écrit :
>>> On behalf of the Python development team, I'm delighted to announce
>>> Python 3.2 final release.
>>>
>>> Python 3.2 is a continuation of the efforts to improve and stabilize the
>>> Python 3.x line.
>>
>>Congratulation to all Python developers for this wonderful release! And
>>a special kudo to our release manager, Georg.
>
> Indeed, great job Georg.  I hereby nominate you for Python 3.3 RM.  No good
> deed goes unpunished. :)
>
>>I hope that Python 3 is now stable enough to support migration of major
>>projects like Django, Twisted or Zope. Other important projets like
>>Distribute, Jinja2, PyQt, PyGObject, pygame, NumPy+SciPy and Sphinx are
>>already compatible with Python 3.
>
> Agreed!  I hope porting to Python 3 can be a major theme for Pycon this year.
>
> -Barry

It is. Trust me.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Strange error importing a Pickle from 2.7 to 3.2

[Scott Dial]

On 2/23/2011 9:19 PM, Alexander Belopolsky wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Dj Gilcrease  wrote:
>> Google Code search limited to python
>>
>> latin1: 3,489 
>> http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=latin1+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search
>> latin-1: 5,604 
>> http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=latin-1+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search

latin1: 1,618
http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=%28\%22latin1\%22|\%27latin1\%27%29+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search
latin-1: 2,241
http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=%28\%22latin-1\%22|\%27latin-1\%27%29+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search

>> utf8: 25,341 
>> http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=utf8+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search
>> utf-8: 179,806 
>> http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=utf-8+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search

utf8 9,676
http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=%28\%22utf8\%22|\%27utf8\%27%29+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search
utf-8 44,795
http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=%28\%22utf-8\%22|\%27utf-8\%27%29+lang%3Apython&sbtn=Search

> Your search is invalid.  You hit things such as Latin1ClassModel which
> have no relevance to the issue at hand.

You get about the same ratio if you filter out only the quoted strings.

-- 
Scott Dial
sc...@scottdial.com
scod...@cs.indiana.edu
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Re: [Python-Dev] Link to issue tracker

[Martin v. Löwis]

> What redirect.txt did you edit specifically?
> 
> 
> It was beta.python.org/build/redirects.txt
> , but I went ahead and
> reverted the change since your solution works.

Ah. That file isn't used, AFAICT, so I now deleted it. If there
are any other redirects that you want to see active, please
let me know.

Regards,
Martin
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