Re: [Python-Dev] Finally fix installer to add Python to %PATH% on Windows
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Chris Withers wrote: >> >> I've helped quite a few "python newbies" on Windows who are also >> surprised / frustrated on learning that "python" on the command line >> doesn't work after installing python. > > Yes, I've always found it a surprising disappointment that I have to > manually munge the PATH and the installer doesn't *even* offer to do it for > me. > > But, since I don't know how to help fix the installer, I've just generally > stfu'd on this issue... This is how to fix an installer. http://codereview.appspot.com/4023055/diff/1/Tools/msi/msi.py Right now I am waiting for Martin's decision (and probably not only me). He is responsible for MSI stuff and the only one, who can integrate the patch. I don't want to put too much pressure on him, but it would be more comfortable for all of us to know what is he up to. I'd like to see this in 3.2 release, of course. -- anatoly t. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] devguide: Describe the Rdiff extension for remote diffs
On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 4:26 PM, nick.coghlan wrote: > +How do I compare my working copy to a remote repository? > +--- To save anyone else pointing this out, I'm now aware that "hg incoming" and "hg outgoing" are the actual commands I want. Still, that kind of mistake is why I want to keep the dev FAQ around - to help people that don't know enough to avoid the misleading answers a web search will sometimes give back. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] devguide: Describe the Rdiff extension for remote diffs
>> +How do I compare my working copy to a remote repository? > > To save anyone else pointing this out, I'm now aware that "hg > incoming" and "hg outgoing" are the actual commands I want. incoming and outgoing compare your repository to a remote repository, not your working copy. Regards ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] devguide: Describe the Rdiff extension for remote diffs
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:06 AM, Éric Araujo wrote:
>>> +How do I compare my working copy to a remote repository?
>>
>> To save anyone else pointing this out, I'm now aware that "hg
>> incoming" and "hg outgoing" are the actual commands I want.
>
> incoming and outgoing compare your repository to a remote repository,
> not your working copy.
Yeah, I know, but for the use case I actually had in mind with that
new FAQ entry ("When I type this next push command, what is it going
to do?"), it's the committed changes that are important. I had my
terminology wrong, so Google led me astray.
Cheers,
Nick.
--
Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia
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Re: [Python-Dev] Finally fix installer to add Python to %PATH% on Windows
On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 04:14, anatoly techtonik wrote: > On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Chris Withers > wrote: > >> > >> I've helped quite a few "python newbies" on Windows who are also > >> surprised / frustrated on learning that "python" on the command line > >> doesn't work after installing python. > > > > Yes, I've always found it a surprising disappointment that I have to > > manually munge the PATH and the installer doesn't *even* offer to do it > for > > me. > > > > But, since I don't know how to help fix the installer, I've just > generally > > stfu'd on this issue... > > This is how to fix an installer. > http://codereview.appspot.com/4023055/diff/1/Tools/msi/msi.py > > Right now I am waiting for Martin's decision (and probably not only > me). He is responsible for MSI stuff and the only one, who can > integrate the patch. I don't want to put too much pressure on him, but > it would be more comfortable for all of us to know what is he up to. > I'd like to see this in 3.2 release, of course. We're one week from the 3.2 final release, so adding a feature such as this is definitely out of the question. Sorry to speak for Martin, but I'm certain he would agree. There are still outstanding considerations in the various issues on the tracker, so it would be best to address them before requesting integration. Example: What should happen when there is another Python installation on the path? ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Finally fix installer to add Python to %PATH% on Windows
On 06/02/2011 15:20, Brian Curtin wrote: There are still outstanding considerations in the various issues on the tracker, so it would be best to address them before requesting integration. Example: What should happen when there is another Python installation on the path? Same as happens with most Windows apps: last one installed wins. Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Finally fix installer to add Python to %PATH% on Windows
On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 09:22, Chris Withers wrote: > On 06/02/2011 15:20, Brian Curtin wrote: > >> There are still outstanding considerations in the various issues on the >> tracker, so it would be best to address them before requesting >> integration. Example: What should happen when there is another Python >> installation on the path? >> > > Same as happens with most Windows apps: last one installed wins. > > > Chris > So put the new path before the old path, or replace it? The current patch appends to the end. Anyways, this is the type of discussion for the existing issues on the tracker. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Finally fix installer to add Python to %PATH% on Windows
On 06/02/2011 15:25, Brian Curtin wrote: So put the new path before the old path, or replace it? The current patch appends to the end. I believe the last path wins in Windows land, so that would be fine. Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Finally fix installer to add Python to %PATH% on Windows
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 1:27 AM, Chris Withers wrote: > On 06/02/2011 15:25, Brian Curtin wrote: >> >> So put the new path before the old path, or replace it? The current >> patch appends to the end. > > I believe the last path wins in Windows land, so that would be fine. Not that I've ever experienced. Most installers just make sure to insert entries at the beginning so "last installed" wins. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: Basic instructions on how to generate a patch with hg for non-committers.
On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 02:10:15 +0100 brett.cannon wrote: > > To create your patch, you should generate a unified diff from your checkout's > top-level directory:: > > -svn diff > patch.diff > +hg outgoing --path > patch.diff Should be --patch. The problem is that it will show one several patch per changeset, which is normally not what you want (it's a pity "hg out" doesn't have an option to collapse them all). > If your work needs some new files to be added to the source tree, remember > -to ``svn add`` them before generating the patch:: > +to ``hg add`` them before generating the patch:: > > - svn add Lib/newfile.py > - svn diff > patch.diff > + hg add Lib/newfile.py > + hg outgoing --patch > patch.diff You should commit before using "outgoing", otherwise the added file is not in the repo (and therefore not in the patch). The problem with hg (and other DVCSes) is that allows for *several* local workflows, and therefore it's harder to advocate one of them in such tutorial docs. I wonder what Georg and Dirkjan suggest. We could perhaps present SVN-like "work in the working copy" workflow (without local commits), and let seasoned hg users choose other workflows they like more (they don't need our help anyway). > To undo a patch, you can revert **all** changes made in your checkout:: > > -svn revert -R . > +hg revert --all > + Or "hg revert -a", which is nicer to type. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Finally fix installer to add Python to %PATH% on Windows
On 6 February 2011 15:35, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 1:27 AM, Chris Withers wrote: >> On 06/02/2011 15:25, Brian Curtin wrote: >>> >>> So put the new path before the old path, or replace it? The current >>> patch appends to the end. >> >> I believe the last path wins in Windows land, so that would be fine. > > Not that I've ever experienced. Most installers just make sure to > insert entries at the beginning so "last installed" wins. ... and "at the beginning" can be a pain due to unintended overriding of existing user commands (not likely in the case of Python, where there's only python, pythonw, w9xpopen and various bdist_wininst "RemoveXXX" commands, but still possible). "Before any existing Python directories, otherwise at the end" is the closest to what I suspect most users want (certainly it matches my preferences, and anything else would have me manually editing PATH anyway, so is of no use to me in practice). Paul. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Finally fix installer to add Python to %PATH% on Windows
Paul Moore writes: > "Before any existing Python directories, otherwise at the end" is the > closest to what I suspect most users want (certainly it matches my > preferences, and anything else would have me manually editing PATH > anyway, so is of no use to me in practice). Unfortunately, what is "no use to person X in practice" is a function of X. I suspect that's why this hasn't been done. Specifically, it seems to me that there are use cases for each of 1. Append (eg, if both python3 and python2 provide "python.exe", for experimental use of python3). 2. Prepend (actually, not a use case; just common, and therefore "intuitive", practice). 3. "Moore's rule" (put latest and greatest ahead of other versions but not interfere with previously installed apps). Maybe it should be user-configurable. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: Basic instructions on how to generate a patch with hg for non-committers.
Le 06/02/2011 17:15, Antoine Pitrou a écrit : > On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 02:10:15 +0100 > brett.cannon wrote: >> To create your patch, you should generate a unified diff from your >> checkout's >> top-level directory:: >> >> -svn diff > patch.diff >> +hg outgoing --path > patch.diff > > Should be --patch. > The problem is that it will show one several patch per changeset, which > is normally not what you want (it's a pity "hg out" doesn't have an > option to collapse them all). I suggest you request that feature upstream. In the meantime, one can use hg diff -r $upstream-tip:tip to diff two anonymous branches. Using a named branch or local tags helps identifying $upstream-tip. Regards ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Finally fix installer to add Python to %PATH% on Windows
On 6 February 2011 17:07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Paul Moore writes: > > > "Before any existing Python directories, otherwise at the end" is the > > closest to what I suspect most users want (certainly it matches my > > preferences, and anything else would have me manually editing PATH > > anyway, so is of no use to me in practice). > > Unfortunately, what is "no use to person X in practice" is a function > of X. I suspect that's why this hasn't been done. Absolutely :-) And it's also why I'm reluctant to support it - even though I agree that not having "python" just work is a PITA. > Specifically, it seems to me that there are use cases for each of > > 1. Append (eg, if both python3 and python2 provide "python.exe", for > experimental use of python3). > 2. Prepend (actually, not a use case; just common, and therefore > "intuitive", practice). > 3. "Moore's rule" (put latest and greatest ahead of other versions > but not interfere with previously installed apps). Fame at last :-) I've seen both (1) and (2) in common use. Both have disadvantages, particularly if you try to support multiple versions being installed at once (something which is nearly unheard of in Windows, and hence why no commonly used solution really does a good job of it). I've never seen (3), and in all honesty I don't expect it to be practical - too many special cases to consider. It was more of a straw man example of what "do it right" might really mean... > Maybe it should be user-configurable. -1. Too much complexity. What I *have* seen is Oracle's "Home Selector", which is a program installed with Oracle's software which keeps track of which versions of Oracle you have installed, and gives you a GUI to move them up & down in priority, or disable versions. It then updates PATH appropriately. Ultimately, all it is in Python's terms, is a GUI means of editing PATH, so I'm not sure it's of any real use to us. (For Oracle, I think it fiddles with some other registry values, so it does have some value there...) One point - no matter what we do, we only need to consider 3.3 and later. People using 3.2 or earlier still have to manually fix up PATH how they want. So if we do add python to PATH in 3.3, we don't actually have a "what if people want to install multiple versions" issue until 3.4 comes out. I'm assuming we don't try to support multiple maintenance releases (3.3.1 and 3.3.2) being installed at once... Paul. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Finally fix installer to add Python to %PATH% on Windows
> I'd like to see this in 3.2 release, of course. As Brian already asserted: that's not feasible. I still haven't managed to test your installer, and may not be able to for the next few weeks. It's also against the policy for release candidates to add such a change at this point. I believe the change, if implemented, needs to be optional (which I believe your change is not). Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: Basic instructions on how to generate a patch with hg for non-committers.
On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 19:10:37 +0100 Éric Araujo wrote: > Le 06/02/2011 17:15, Antoine Pitrou a écrit : > > On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 02:10:15 +0100 > > brett.cannon wrote: > >> To create your patch, you should generate a unified diff from your > >> checkout's > >> top-level directory:: > >> > >> -svn diff > patch.diff > >> +hg outgoing --path > patch.diff > > > > Should be --patch. > > The problem is that it will show one several patch per changeset, which > > is normally not what you want (it's a pity "hg out" doesn't have an > > option to collapse them all). > > I suggest you request that feature upstream. > > In the meantime, one can use hg diff -r $upstream-tip:tip to diff two > anonymous branches. Using a named branch or local tags helps > identifying $upstream-tip. Yes. But that's where we start advocating a particular local workflow over another (why named branches rather than mercurial queues or bookmarks, for example?). That's why I think that part of the devguide should stick to a trivial SVN-like use, letting people learn about more powerful options in other resources. Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: Basic instructions on how to generate a patch with hg for non-committers.
On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 08:15, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 02:10:15 +0100 > brett.cannon wrote: >> >> To create your patch, you should generate a unified diff from your >> checkout's >> top-level directory:: >> >> - svn diff > patch.diff >> + hg outgoing --path > patch.diff > > Should be --patch. > The problem is that it will show one several patch per changeset, which > is normally not what you want (it's a pity "hg out" doesn't have an > option to collapse them all). Yeah, that is a perk of mq. > >> If your work needs some new files to be added to the source tree, remember >> -to ``svn add`` them before generating the patch:: >> +to ``hg add`` them before generating the patch:: >> >> - svn add Lib/newfile.py >> - svn diff > patch.diff >> + hg add Lib/newfile.py >> + hg outgoing --patch > patch.diff > > You should commit before using "outgoing", otherwise the added file is > not in the repo (and therefore not in the patch). > > The problem with hg (and other DVCSes) is that allows for *several* > local workflows, and therefore it's harder to advocate one of them in > such tutorial docs. I wonder what Georg and Dirkjan suggest. Well, I wouldn't say harder. We just choose one we like the most and advocate that while stating upfront this is just one of many different ways someone can choose to work. > > We could perhaps present SVN-like "work in the working copy" workflow > (without local commits), and let seasoned hg users choose other > workflows they like more (they don't need our help anyway). I would rather give people some simple workflow that has some benefit over svn. Basically whatever is the easiest to comprehend and work with should be what we start people with. > >> To undo a patch, you can revert **all** changes made in your checkout:: >> >> - svn revert -R . >> + hg revert --all >> + > > Or "hg revert -a", which is nicer to type. I prefer being explicit over implicit in the tutorial. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: Basic instructions on how to generate a patch with hg for non-committers.
On Sunday, 06 February 2011 at 12:13, Brett Cannon wrote: > On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 08:15, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 02:10:15 +0100 > > brett.cannon wrote: > >> > >> To create your patch, you should generate a unified diff from your > >> checkout's > >> top-level directory:: > >> > >> - svn diff > patch.diff > >> + hg outgoing --path > patch.diff > > > > Should be --patch. > > The problem is that it will show one several patch per changeset, which > > is normally not what you want (it's a pity "hg out" doesn't have an > > option to collapse them all). > > Yeah, that is a perk of mq. > > > > >> If your work needs some new files to be added to the source tree, remember > >> -to ``svn add`` them before generating the patch:: > >> +to ``hg add`` them before generating the patch:: > >> > >> - svn add Lib/newfile.py > >> - svn diff > patch.diff > >> + hg add Lib/newfile.py > >> + hg outgoing --patch > patch.diff > > > > You should commit before using "outgoing", otherwise the added file is > > not in the repo (and therefore not in the patch). > > > > The problem with hg (and other DVCSes) is that allows for *several* > > local workflows, and therefore it's harder to advocate one of them in > > such tutorial docs. I wonder what Georg and Dirkjan suggest. I just happened to see this message and don't really know the context -- you may not want to use any extensions here. But my 'rdiff' extension does let you create diffs between your working directory and upstream, and collapses your changesets into a single diff. http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/RdiffExtension ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: Basic instructions on how to generate a patch with hg for non-committers.
On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 12:36, Brendan Cully wrote: > On Sunday, 06 February 2011 at 12:13, Brett Cannon wrote: >> On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 08:15, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> > On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 02:10:15 +0100 >> > brett.cannon wrote: >> >> >> >> To create your patch, you should generate a unified diff from your >> >> checkout's >> >> top-level directory:: >> >> >> >> - svn diff > patch.diff >> >> + hg outgoing --path > patch.diff >> > >> > Should be --patch. >> > The problem is that it will show one several patch per changeset, which >> > is normally not what you want (it's a pity "hg out" doesn't have an >> > option to collapse them all). >> >> Yeah, that is a perk of mq. >> >> > >> >> If your work needs some new files to be added to the source tree, >> >> remember >> >> -to ``svn add`` them before generating the patch:: >> >> +to ``hg add`` them before generating the patch:: >> >> >> >> - svn add Lib/newfile.py >> >> - svn diff > patch.diff >> >> + hg add Lib/newfile.py >> >> + hg outgoing --patch > patch.diff >> > >> > You should commit before using "outgoing", otherwise the added file is >> > not in the repo (and therefore not in the patch). >> > >> > The problem with hg (and other DVCSes) is that allows for *several* >> > local workflows, and therefore it's harder to advocate one of them in >> > such tutorial docs. I wonder what Georg and Dirkjan suggest. > > I just happened to see this message and don't really know the > context -- you may not want to use any extensions here. But my 'rdiff' > extension does let you create diffs between your working directory and > upstream, and collapses your changesets into a single diff. I would rather not have new hg users have to install an extension just to get a simple workflow going. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] devguide: Basic instructions on how to generate a patch with hg for non-committers.
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > I would rather not have new hg users have to install an extension just > to get a simple workflow going. I may still keep my Rdiff-based FAQ entry around as an example of how to get a collapsed diff regardless of personal workflow, though. Installing Rdiff was actually pretty easy, and I get the impression that becoming comfortable with adding the extensions that suit your personal workflow is a key part in getting Mercurial to really work for you. We won't do people any favours if we try to pretend that isn't the case. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r88359 - python/branches/py3k/Doc/whatsnew/3.2.rst
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 6:08 AM, raymond.hettinger wrote: > +In addition, the :func:`~dis.dis` function now accepts string arguments > +so that the common idiom ``dis(compile(s, '', 'eval'))`` can be shortened > +to ``dis(compile(s))``:: That should be ``dis(s)``. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
