Re: [Python-Dev] April 1st jokes (was: Base-96)
On Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 02:15:29PM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: > On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That was an April Fool's RFC. > > See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools%27_Day_RFC -- it has > a ton of these. Great fun reading through some of them on an idle > Saturday afternoon. :-) There were a lot of Python jokes for the Apr 1st. What a pity we have ceased to make such jokes. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-April/076593.html http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-April/197232.html http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-April/256320.html (Despite being a joke it really works!) http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2005-April/315453.html http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2005-April/315457.html http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-April/375866.html Oleg. -- Oleg Broytmannhttp://phd.pp.ru/[EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] April 1st jokes
Oleg Broytmann schrieb: On Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 02:15:29PM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That was an April Fool's RFC. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools%27_Day_RFC -- it has a ton of these. Great fun reading through some of them on an idle Saturday afternoon. :-) There were a lot of Python jokes for the Apr 1st. What a pity we have ceased to make such jokes. You forget the April 1st PEPs: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0313/ http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3117/ Georg ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] April 1st jokes (was: Base-96)
Hm, I'm sure there were many more, perhaps in different places. I recall participating with Larry Wall in the announcement of Parrot, a Python/Perl merger -- hence the name of the Perl 6 VM. And others. I'd love to see people post more references here! (Georg already posted the April Fool's PEPs.) On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Oleg Broytmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 02:15:29PM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: >> On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > That was an April Fool's RFC. >> >> See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools%27_Day_RFC -- it has >> a ton of these. Great fun reading through some of them on an idle >> Saturday afternoon. :-) > > There were a lot of Python jokes for the Apr 1st. What a pity we have > ceased to make such jokes. > > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-April/076593.html > > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-April/197232.html > > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-April/256320.html > (Despite being a joke it really works!) > > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2005-April/315453.html > > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2005-April/315457.html > > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-April/375866.html > > Oleg. > -- > Oleg Broytmannhttp://phd.pp.ru/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org > -- --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Issue with distutils and new mingw binutils
Can I draw python-dev's attention to http://bugs.python.org/issue3496 ? Without this fix, distutils doesn't support the new version of binutils (which is probably coming into more common use). It would be good if this could be fixed for 2.6. I've attached a patch to the issue report, could someone possibly check it over and apply if appropriate? Thanks, Paul. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] April 1st jokes (was: Base-96)
Guido> Hm, I'm sure there were many more, perhaps in different places. I figured it's a slow Sunday so I'd collect them on the wiki: http://wiki.python.org/moin/AprilFools I found the Python/Perl joint development press release, but only on the Wayback machine. It appears that when redesigning the python.org website that page was deemed inappropriate. Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] String concatenation
Hello, is concatenation of adjacent strings a useful feature? So far the only use case I've seen is causing me endless hours of debugging when I forget the comma in a tuple of strings, like so: ("first", "second" "third") Which then becomes a tuple of two items, instead of three. It would have been much better if it produced an error. Is there any good reason that this feature exists, or would it be better if it were removed? Regards, Stavros Korokithakis ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] String concatenation
Stavros Korokithakis wrote: Hello, is concatenation of adjacent strings a useful feature? So far the only use case I've seen is causing me endless hours of debugging when I forget the comma in a tuple of strings, like so: ("first", "second" "third") Which then becomes a tuple of two items, instead of three. It would have been much better if it produced an error. Is there any good reason that this feature exists, or would it be better if it were removed? It can be a very useful feature. See the rejected PEP 3126 for a discussion: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3126/ Michael Foord Regards, Stavros Korokithakis ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/fuzzyman%40voidspace.org.uk -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ http://www.trypython.org/ http://www.ironpython.info/ http://www.theotherdelia.co.uk/ http://www.resolverhacks.net/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] String concatenation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stavros Korokithakis wrote: > Hello, > is concatenation of adjacent strings a useful feature? So far the only > use case I've seen is causing me endless hours of debugging when I > forget the comma in a tuple of strings, like so: > > ("first", > "second" > "third") > > Which then becomes a tuple of two items, instead of three. It would have > been much better if it produced an error. Is there any good reason that > this feature exists, or would it be better if it were removed? - -1. The feature exists to allow adherence to PEP-8, "Limit all lines to a maximum of 79 characters.", without requiring runtime concatenation costs. I use it frequently when assembling and testing message strings, for instance. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIlfMR+gerLs4ltQ4RAjc/AJ9QiO4EWMfamHwyRLaZ+cowu8bT9gCbB+/Y 979rSOIrbRs8lYW3T8Kv6WE= =NSdL -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] String concatenation
Hmm, thanks, although I don't see why it was rejected, since it seems to me that by using the addition operator or triple-quoting all the use cases would become clearer and not significantly harder to write, while the (often silent) errors would not happen any more. The PEP only mentions that "the feature to be removed isn't all that harmful, and there are some use cases that would become harder", but I'm not sure that the "harder use cases" (which ones?) justify the error potential. Stavros Korokithakis Michael Foord wrote: Stavros Korokithakis wrote: Hello, is concatenation of adjacent strings a useful feature? So far the only use case I've seen is causing me endless hours of debugging when I forget the comma in a tuple of strings, like so: ("first", "second" "third") Which then becomes a tuple of two items, instead of three. It would have been much better if it produced an error. Is there any good reason that this feature exists, or would it be better if it were removed? It can be a very useful feature. See the rejected PEP 3126 for a discussion: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3126/ Michael Foord Regards, Stavros Korokithakis ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/fuzzyman%40voidspace.org.uk ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] String concatenation
Tres Seaver palladion.com> writes: > > -1. The feature exists to allow adherence to PEP-8, "Limit all lines to > a maximum of 79 characters.", without requiring runtime concatenation > costs. I use it frequently when assembling and testing message strings, > for instance. In many cases there is no runtime concatenation cost. >>> def f(): ... return "first" + "second" ... >>> import dis >>> dis.dis(f) 2 0 LOAD_CONST 3 ('firstsecond') 3 RETURN_VALUE Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] String concatenation
On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 8:29 PM, Antoine Pitrou <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In many cases there is no runtime concatenation cost. > def f(): > ... return "first" + "second" > ... import dis dis.dis(f) > 2 0 LOAD_CONST 3 ('firstsecond') > 3 RETURN_VALUE The "many cases" only extends to strings whose combined length is less than 20 characters: >>> dis.dis(lambda : "1234567890123456789" + "0") 1 0 LOAD_CONST 2 ('12345678901234567890') 3 RETURN_VALUE >>> dis.dis(lambda : "1234567890123456789" + "01") 1 0 LOAD_CONST 0 ('1234567890123456789') 3 LOAD_CONST 1 ('01') 6 BINARY_ADD 7 RETURN_VALUE Adjacent string concentation works on arbitrary length string constants: >>> dis.dis(lambda : "12345678901234567890" "12345678901234567890") 1 0 LOAD_CONST 0 ('1234567890123456789012345678901234567890') 3 RETURN_VALUE ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] String concatenation
Le dimanche 03 août 2008 à 20:38 +0200, Simon Cross a écrit : > The "many cases" only extends to strings whose combined length is less > than 20 characters: Oops. I didn't know that. Is there any rationale (I suppose so)? ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] new mailing list: python-committers
I figured I would send out a quick email to let people know of the existence of a new mailing list: python-committers (http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers) so that no one thinks something sneaky is going on behind the scenes. It is invite-only, but publicly archived. The point of the list is for stuff like when the repository is off-limits to commits or to discuss release dates, etc.; basically stuff where every committer needs to be aware of something and input from the community is not needed. That way nothing important gets drowned out in python-dev by accident. At this point all committers should be subscribed to the list. But almost all discussions will continue to be on python-ideas, python-dev, and python-3000. Any new proposals should continue to go to python-ideas first (since those discussions tend to be the noisiest, and people should feel okay to tell people quickly that a discussion should be moved over to python-ideas), and then stuff about developing Python should go to python-dev or python-3000 since some community input is almost always good and practically every developer still reads python-dev anyway. -Brett ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] String concatenation
Stavros Korokithakis wrote: Hmm, thanks, although I don't see why it was rejected, since it seems to me that by using the addition operator or triple-quoting all the use cases would become clearer and not significantly harder to write, while the (often silent) errors would not happen any more. The PEP only mentions that "the feature to be removed isn't all that harmful, and there are some use cases that would become harder", but I'm not sure that the "harder use cases" (which ones?) justify the error potential. As I recall, removing implicit string concatenation simply resulted in too much code breakage for not enough benefit. There is also the minor(!) issue of breaking il8n tools that understand implicit string concatenation but not string addition. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Brisbane, Australia --- http://www.boredomandlaziness.org ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] April 1st jokes
Guido van Rossum wrote: Hm, I'm sure there were many more, perhaps in different places. Although it wasn't April 1, here's one I posted in response to python-dev discussions. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-May/084169.html There was also another one concerning how to reduce the number of ways of copying a list, but Google doesn't seem to want to find it. -- Greg ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] April 1st jokes (was: Base-96)
On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 10:37 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Guido> Hm, I'm sure there were many more, perhaps in different places. > > I figured it's a slow Sunday so I'd collect them on the wiki: > >http://wiki.python.org/moin/AprilFools Great! > I found the Python/Perl joint development press release, but only on the > Wayback machine. It appears that when redesigning the python.org website > that page was deemed inappropriate. Alas, way too much stuff was dropped by the redesign. ;-( I should track down the Tim Peters award (or whatever it was called) and link that. We should probably cross-link with the Python humor page on python.org (unless that's also been axed). -- --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] April 1st jokes (was: Base-96)
On Sun, Aug 03, 2008, Guido van Rossum wrote: > On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 10:37 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> I found the Python/Perl joint development press release, but only on the >> Wayback machine. It appears that when redesigning the python.org website >> that page was deemed inappropriate. > > Alas, way too much stuff was dropped by the redesign. ;-( > > I should track down the Tim Peters award (or whatever it was called) > and link that. > > We should probably cross-link with the Python humor page on python.org > (unless that's also been axed). IIRC, the humor page was axed due to lack of updates -- I recommend finding the material using Wayback and just adding it to the wiki. -- Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ Adopt A Process -- stop killing all your children! ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Py3k tasks spreadsheet
I'm not sure if this should go here or the python3000 list, but I think it probably fits a bit better here, as it has to do with development. I'm putting together a small sprint for our newly formed Python group here locally, and I stumbled across this Google doc with Py3k tasks that need completed. It's found here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pBLWM8elhFAmKbrhhh0ApQA How up to date is this? Could we base some sprint tasks off of some of the things that are on there? I see mention of earlier versions of Py3k, so I thought I'd confirm. There are quite a few tasks there that an experienced Python coder could probably hammer out in a weekend (if not sooner). If this spreadsheet is out of date, is there a current list of tasks somewhere else that might help us to set some goals and provide some help to Py3k development? What about python 2.x development? Thanks, Paul ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com