[python-committers] Re: Cleaning up the historical list of core developers

2019-07-05 Thread Alexandre Vassalotti 
On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 5:00 AM Antoine Pitrou  wrote:

> > So, how do we pull together a clean-enough list of historical core
> > developers? Here is my idea of criteria of people to be on the list
> > (based on the developer log and the git log):
> >
> >   * Was not a GSoC student (clarification to follow for those who fall
> > into this category and are actually active)
>
> I think you should replace "are actually active" with "have been
> actually active after their GSoC project" (without necessary being
> active *now*).  Example with Alexandre, who's been the pickle maintainer
> during several years but is inactive now:
>

Oh, I'm not inactive (at least not by the definition in PEP 13
.) I was part of the
initial active core team members who were grandfathered in from the "Python
core" team on GitHub, and nobody asked me to declare myself as inactive
(yet!) But outside of the PEP 13 definition, yeah, it is true that I am not
actively contributing right now. (I still read the mailing lists and still
keep an eye on the pickle module though.) I would be sad to see my
membership invalidated because I became a committer through GSoC.

And BTW, PEP 13 defined the initial inactive members as anyone who has been
a committer in the past. PEP 13 didn't qualify the membership on what
process the person went through become a committer (e.g., by a vote, for
GSoC, or for sprints). Brett, are you planning to propose an amendment to
PEP 13 to change that?

-- Alexandre
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[python-committers] Re: Cleaning up the historical list of core developers

2019-07-05 Thread Antoine Pitrou 

Le 05/07/2019 à 09:58, Alexandre Vassalotti a écrit :
> 
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 5:00 AM Antoine Pitrou  > wrote:
> 
> > So, how do we pull together a clean-enough list of historical core
> > developers? Here is my idea of criteria of people to be on the list
> > (based on the developer log and the git log):
> >
> >   * Was not a GSoC student (clarification to follow for those who fall
> >     into this category and are actually active)
> 
> I think you should replace "are actually active" with "have been
> actually active after their GSoC project" (without necessary being
> active *now*).  Example with Alexandre, who's been the pickle maintainer
> during several years but is inactive now:
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm not inactive (at least not by the definition in PEP 13
> .)

Personally, I meant "inactive" in the casual sense ;-)

Regards

Antoine.
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[python-committers] Re: Cleaning up the historical list of core developers

2019-07-05 Thread Brett Cannon 
Alexandre Vassalotti wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 5:00 AM Antoine Pitrou [email protected]... wrote:
> > So, how do we
> > pull together a clean-enough list of historical core
> > developers? Here is my idea of criteria of people to be on the list
> > (based on the developer log and the git log):
> > 
> > Was not a GSoC student (clarification to follow for those who fall
> > into this category and are actually active)
> > 
> > I think you should replace "are actually active" with "have been
> > actually active after their GSoC project" (without necessary being
> > active now).  Example with Alexandre, who's been the pickle maintainer
> > during several years but is inactive now:
> > Oh, I'm not inactive (at least not by the definition in PEP 13
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#id18)

To clarify and try to prevent this from coming up again: what I'm talking about 
has nothing to do with active/inactive at this moment or in terms of PEP 13 (I 
purposely didn't use those terms in my initial email).

> I was part of the
> initial active core team members who were grandfathered in from the "Python
> core" team on GitHub, and nobody asked me to declare myself as inactive
> (yet!) But outside of the PEP 13 definition, yeah, it is true that I am not
> actively contributing right now. (I still read the mailing lists and still
> keep an eye on the pickle module though.) I would be sad to see my
> membership invalidated because I became a committer through GSoC.

You're fine. As I said, if you speak up you've probably done enough to warrant 
being considered more than a GSoC student. :)

This is for people who were GSoC students who only participated within the 
confines of their project and then walked away or committed twice, 12 months 
apart for whatever reason (and that is a real-life example, BTW). You stuck 
around and so I don't think anyone would argue you weren't a core dev. :)

Please don't get hung up on how you came into becoming a core dev as much as 
whether you continued participating at some point in Python's history. 
(Remember, this isn't about _now_, it's about _ever_.)

> And BTW, PEP 13 defined the initial inactive members as anyone who has been
> a committer in the past. PEP 13 didn't qualify the membership on what
> process the person went through become a committer (e.g., by a vote, for
> GSoC, or for sprints). Brett, are you planning to propose an amendment to
> PEP 13 to change that?

The list of folks "who [have] been a committer in the past" isn't even known 
beyond the spelunking I've done so it's already a hand-wavy definition to begin 
with. We also talked about trying to clean this list up prior to voting on 
governance models but no one had the time or patience to try and discuss it, 
probably due to fears of being accused of possible disenfranchisement. But if 
people want PEP 13 to be updated to say "the folks on this list kept over 
_here_ are core team members and here is how we created that list" then I can 
do that when we are done with this discussion.
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[python-committers] Re: Cleaning up the historical list of core developers

2019-07-05 Thread Paul Moore 
On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 at 18:53, Brett Cannon  wrote:

> > > Did not commit/author beyond a 3 month time span from first
> > > commit/authorship to last commit/authorship and their last commit
> > > was more than two years ago (helps cover people we don't have good
> > > records for in terms of sprints or GSoC who never got involved)
> > >
> > > Hmm... I may be a bit dense, but I don't understand that sentence :-S
>
>
> Let's say someone made all of their commits from 2015-07-04 to 2015-10-04 
> (and when I say "commits" I mean committing or authoring in git terms). That 
> means they committed over a span of less than 3 months over the entire 
> history of the cpython repo and that the last commit was more than 2 years 
> ago. In that instance I'm suggesting we drop the person as chances are they 
> were probably a GSoC student or a sprinter who tried things out but quickly 
> walked away.
>
> Or put another way, I'm arguing that if you spent less than 3 months making 
> commits to cpython over two years ago you were probably not someone who got 
> promoted to being a core developer through the normal promotion process.

I may fall under this category, as I don't actually commit much to the
cpython repo. But I would very much like to continue being considered
as a "core developer". As I understand it, my saying so here should be
sufficient for that to happen (I will say so again when the actual
lists come out, if it turns out I'm right). If there's anything else
that I'd need to do in order to stay on the list, can it be clarified
what that is?

Paul
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[python-committers] Re: Cleaning up the historical list of core developers

2019-07-05 Thread Brett Cannon 
Paul Moore wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 at 18:53, Brett Cannon [email protected]... wrote:
> > Did not commit/author beyond a 3 month time span from
> > first
> > commit/authorship to last commit/authorship and their last commit
> > was more than two years ago (helps cover people we don't have good
> > records for in terms of sprints or GSoC who never got involved)
> > Hmm... I may be a bit dense, but I don't understand that sentence :-S
> > Let's say someone made all of their commits from 2015-07-04 to 2015-10-04
> > (and when I say "commits" I mean committing or authoring in git terms). 
> > That means they
> > committed over a span of less than 3 months over the entire history of the 
> > cpython repo
> > and that the last commit was more than 2 years ago. In that instance I'm 
> > suggesting we
> > drop the person as chances are they were probably a GSoC student or a 
> > sprinter who tried
> > things out but quickly walked away.
> > Or put another way, I'm arguing that if you spent less than 3 months making 
> > commits to
> > cpython over two years ago you were probably not someone who got promoted 
> > to being a core
> > developer through the normal promotion process.
> > I may fall under this category, as I don't actually commit much to the
> cpython repo. But I would very much like to continue being considered
> as a "core developer". As I understand it, my saying so here should be
> sufficient for that to happen (I will say so again when the actual
> lists come out, if it turns out I'm right). If there's anything else
> that I'd need to do in order to stay on the list, can it be clarified
> what that is?

You don't fall within that category. 
https://github.com/python/cpython/commits?author=pfmoore alone shows activity 
from you from 2015 to now which is more than 3 months (I didn't even need to 
fire up the REPL and use datetime to figure that out ;) . And that doesn't even 
cover PRs you may have authored but didn't merge yourself (e.g. automerge).
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