Re: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
I asked Stefan some questions and here is he answer. 27.03.19 10:25, Stefan Behnel пише: Hi Serhiy! It's actually good that you asked. Please forward this to the committers list for me. Serhiy Storchaka schrieb am 27.03.19 um 07:40: Maybe it's my fault that I did not introduce you well enough, but there were some questions. No problem. They are good questions, and the discussion around them was probably also necessary at some point. Why do you want to be the core developer? Why do you need these rights? Do you fully understand that this is not just rights, but above all certain responsibilities. Do you want to be a maintainer of the xml.etree package (and maybe other XML modules)? I understand that it's a responsibility. I accept that responsibility, and yes, I think the XML packages would benefit from a couple more hands and heads, as would other parts of CPython. I also understand the difference between writing a PR and being able to merge it. :) Besides that, I think the position also gives a different standing, both in the circle of core devs and in the community, even though some core-devs are arguing against codifying that. I find it perfectly ok to strive for recognition in an unpaid job. The PSF is one way of giving out recognition, but it's not the only way. Being equal can sometimes be more valuable than being special. Regarding the process, I think it's good to have a grey zone in the ways how to become a core developer. It should be easy enough to not scare away candidates (because we need them!), but still have a bar that keeps people out who just want a nice title for their resume and then drop away after a couple of months. Why is that? Because there are costs associated with new core devs: 1) They need initial support and training, thus eating up the contributed time of other core developers. Adding new core devs should have the ultimate goal of *reducing* the time that others need to put into the project to get work done, not increase it. 2) Adding a new core dev increases the chance of dissent between people who can click merge buttons and revert commits. Managing groups of people is difficult, at least if there is more than one person involved. 3) Revoking the rights of a former contributor is a major social problem, thus leading to stale entries in the list of core-devs. (*) Thus, IMHO, the main questions to answer when deciding whether to add a new core dev are: 1) Is that person knowledgeable enough for the job and capable/expected to take over tasks from others? 2) Can that person be expected to participate in decision processes in a constructive way, and without starting merge wars? 3) Has that person been around for long enough to safely assume that it's not just a flash in the pan? Apart from that, given the social bar that someone has to promote a person (and probably wouldn't do that if that person is unlikely to pass the acceptance test), I think it's an acceptable process. It's a bet on the future, after all. Life and conditions change, and you can never be sure how a person will behave in a year's time, if that person will still be willing and capable of contributing then, or if that person will even be alive at all. Predictions are hard, especially about the future. We have to live with that, and adjust the tradeoffs accordingly. Stefan (*) The German language has the beautiful word "Karteileiche" for this, literally a dead body in a register. ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
If Stefan is willing to become a XML maintainer, it sounds like a good reason to make him core developer. Regards Antoine. Le 27/03/2019 à 10:03, Serhiy Storchaka a écrit : > I asked Stefan some questions and here is he answer. > > > 27.03.19 10:25, Stefan Behnel пише: >> Hi Serhiy! >> >> It's actually good that you asked. Please forward this to the committers >> list for me. >> >> Serhiy Storchaka schrieb am 27.03.19 um 07:40: >>> Maybe it's my fault that I did not introduce you well enough, but there >>> were some questions. >> No problem. They are good questions, and the discussion around them was >> probably also necessary at some point. >> >> >>> Why do you want to be the core developer? Why do you >>> need these rights? Do you fully understand that this is not just rights, >>> but above all certain responsibilities. >>> Do you want to be a maintainer of the xml.etree package (and maybe other >>> XML modules)? >> I understand that it's a responsibility. I accept that responsibility, and >> yes, I think the XML packages would benefit from a couple more hands and >> heads, as would other parts of CPython. I also understand the difference >> between writing a PR and being able to merge it. :) >> >> Besides that, I think the position also gives a different standing, both in >> the circle of core devs and in the community, even though some core-devs >> are arguing against codifying that. I find it perfectly ok to strive for >> recognition in an unpaid job. The PSF is one way of giving out recognition, >> but it's not the only way. Being equal can sometimes be more valuable than >> being special. >> >> Regarding the process, I think it's good to have a grey zone in the ways >> how to become a core developer. It should be easy enough to not scare away >> candidates (because we need them!), but still have a bar that keeps people >> out who just want a nice title for their resume and then drop away after a >> couple of months. >> >> Why is that? Because there are costs associated with new core devs: >> >> 1) They need initial support and training, thus eating up the contributed >> time of other core developers. Adding new core devs should have the >> ultimate goal of *reducing* the time that others need to put into the >> project to get work done, not increase it. >> >> 2) Adding a new core dev increases the chance of dissent between people who >> can click merge buttons and revert commits. Managing groups of people is >> difficult, at least if there is more than one person involved. >> >> 3) Revoking the rights of a former contributor is a major social problem, >> thus leading to stale entries in the list of core-devs. (*) >> >> Thus, IMHO, the main questions to answer when deciding whether to add a new >> core dev are: 1) Is that person knowledgeable enough for the job and >> capable/expected to take over tasks from others? 2) Can that person be >> expected to participate in decision processes in a constructive way, and >> without starting merge wars? 3) Has that person been around for long enough >> to safely assume that it's not just a flash in the pan? >> >> Apart from that, given the social bar that someone has to promote a person >> (and probably wouldn't do that if that person is unlikely to pass the >> acceptance test), I think it's an acceptable process. >> >> It's a bet on the future, after all. Life and conditions change, and you >> can never be sure how a person will behave in a year's time, if that person >> will still be willing and capable of contributing then, or if that person >> will even be alive at all. Predictions are hard, especially about the >> future. We have to live with that, and adjust the tradeoffs accordingly. >> >> Stefan >> >> >> >> (*) The German language has the beautiful word "Karteileiche" for this, >> literally a dead body in a register. > ___ > python-committers mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer
> On Mar 24, 2019, at 9:14 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > > I propose to promote Stefan Behnel (aka scoder on the tracker and GitHub) as > a core developer. Strong +1 from me. Stefan has demonstrated deep knowledge, good judgment, and will be around for the long-term. IMO, he is a first rate developer. Raymond ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
