Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer
2018-06-14 0:26 GMT+02:00 Berker Peksağ :
> I don't care about total number of commits to be honest. It's not so
> hard to get 50 PRs merged into master in a month or so.
Wait, what? No developer got more than 50 commits merged into master
in less than one month.
Stats between May, 1st and today (one month and a half, longer than
one month), top 5
---
39 Serhiy Storchaka
31 Victor Stinner
24 Yury Selivanov
18 Andrés Delfino
16 Ned Deily
---
Statistics on the master branch between September 1st, 2017 and today,
developers with at least 20 commits:
---
221 Serhiy Storchaka
221 Victor Stinner
89 Yury Selivanov
67 Ned Deily
60 Benjamin Peterson
56 Terry Jan Reedy
51 Christian Heimes
41 Eric V. Smith
41 INADA Naoki
37 Antoine Pitrou
36 Raymond Hettinger
35 Steve Dower
34 Cheryl Sabella
34 Andrew Svetlov
31 Oren Milman
29 Barry Warsaw
26 xdegaye
24 Andrés Delfino
22 Eric Snow
21 Pablo Galindo
20 Berker Peksag
---
But if you ignore core developers, here is the top 6 most active contributors:
---
34 Cheryl Sabella
31 Oren Milman
24 Andrés Delfino
21 Pablo Galindo
18 Zackery Spytz
9 Paul Ganssle
---
I let you look at each commit to estimate how much time each
contributor has spent on Python.
Note: Oh, it seems like Pablo got one commit as a different name but
with same email ("Author: Dargor "). The correct
number for Pablo is 22.
Note2: Pablo got 2 more commits merged into master (22) than Berker (20) ;-)
> [1] According to bpo, Pablo has been active in 38 issues:
It seems that he is active, if not very active, on the bug tracker,
no? But how can I compare this number to other core developers or
other contributors?
> Writing high quality code is not the only requirement to become a core
> developer.
> IMO, being active on bugs.p.o [1] and reviewing pull requests on
> GitHub [2] are more important than writing code or documentation.
I'm not sure that it works in this direction. I expect that once a
developer is promoted as a core dev, they become more active on
reviews and bug triage. It's my (personal) definition of the
additional responsibilities of a core developer. I don't see why a
contributor will spend time on reviews and bug triage before becoming
a core. Writing pull requests is a good way to learn how to produce
good reviews.
There are 90 core developers in the GitHub team: how many of them are
regularly doing reviews and bug triage? Don't expect that a new core
developer will be at least as active, if not more, than existing core
developers. I'm happy if I review 5 pull requests per week. It takes a
lot of time to review properly a PR.
As I wrote to Serhiy, IMHO you are putting the bar too high.
Our role is to mentor and guide contributors to make them feel part of
a team and feel useful by recognizing the value of their work.
Please remind that they are very few contributors with available free
time and ready to be invested in the long term.
In my experience, naturally, when a contributor is promoted, they
become more active in different areas of Python: bug tracker, mailing
list, devguide, etc.
My script to compute stats:
---
import collections
import subprocess
proc = subprocess.run(['git', 'log', '--after=2017-09-01', 'master'],
stdout=subprocess.PIPE,
universal_newlines=True)
authors = collections.Counter()
for line in proc.stdout.splitlines():
if line.startswith('Author: '):
line = line[8:]
name = line.split(' <')[0]
authors[name] += 1
for name, commits in authors.most_common():
if commits < 5:
break
print(commits, name)
---
Victor
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Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer
On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: > 2018-06-14 0:26 GMT+02:00 Berker Peksağ : >> I don't care about total number of commits to be honest. It's not so >> hard to get 50 PRs merged into master in a month or so. > > Wait, what? No developer got more than 50 commits merged into master > in less than one month. That was just a hypothetical number to explain that only looking at some numbers can be misleading... But if you really need "real" numbers, here's a recent example: 16 commits in less than a month: https://github.com/python/cpython/commits?author=andresdelfino > Note2: Pablo got 2 more commits merged into master (22) than Berker (20) ;-) I don't like what you're hinting, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I will just point out that I've reviewed 89 pull requests since last September. It seems like we have very different understanding of the differences between contributors and core developers/maintainers. >> [1] According to bpo, Pablo has been active in 38 issues: > > It seems that he is active, if not very active, on the bug tracker, > no? But how can I compare this number to other core developers or > other contributors? Since their name already mentioned in the thread, you can take a look at Cherly Sabella's activity on the tracker. > As I wrote to Serhiy, IMHO you are putting the bar too high. This isn't about my or someone else's high standards. We keep saying we need more triagers and reviewers, and we keep promoting people who didn't do any issue triaging and code review. It's not fair to contributors who have spent so much time working on these areas. > Please remind that they are very few contributors with available free > time and ready to be invested in the long term. Correct, that's basically the difference between a contributor and a core developer/maintainer. If they don't have time or motivation to invest in a project long term, it's perfectly fine. They don't have to be a core developer to be a valuable member of the community. ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer
Oh, I forgot to mention that Pablo is already helping me on triagging buildbot failures since 1 month.See my email to python-dev for the context: "[Python-Dev] How to watch buildbots?" https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-May/153754.html You can see his emails on the buildbot-status mailing list: https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/buildbot-status.python.org/ Victor 2018-06-13 18:16 GMT+02:00 Victor Stinner : > Hi, > > I propose to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as a core developer and so > open a vote during one week. If there is no strong opposition, I will > promote him but also continue to mentor him for a least one month. > > Pablo is contributing frequently to Python since almost one year. He > added os.preadv()/pwritev() to Python 3.7 and os.posix_spawn() to > Python 3.8. I am now waiting for his os.copy_file_range() function! > (Others are working on it.) > https://bugs.python.org/issue26826 > > I am mentoring Pablo Salingo Salgado since January. I am watching his > hard work since last September. He made many non trivial and useful > contributions to Python. > > I think that he understands well how Python is developed, is > respectful, try to find answers alone before asking, and is eager to > learn. In case of doubt, he ask others before doing something, like > closing an issue. I trust that Pablo will respect opinions of others, > like not merging a PR if someone disagree. > > Pablo's merged PR: > https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aclosed+is%3Apr+author%3Apablogsal+ > > He got 22 commits merged into master between September 2017 and June 2018. > > If Pablo is promoted as a core developer, I propose to continue to be > his mentor for at least one month, and ask him before merging any PR. > > Note: Pablo already has the bug triage permission for 5 months: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-January/005133.html > > Victor ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer
Quick response: +0.5 My first reaction was "really?" given the amount of iteration required due to lack of CPython extension module API experience demonstrated in the os.posix_spawn PRs. (I am not surprised to see Serhiy's negative reaction) But Pablo shows drive and desire to do good things and an ability to eventually do it even if there are learning bumps along the way. With mentoring and PR reviews (which I'm assuming Victor is signing up for) I believe Pablo would make a fine core developer. So +0.5 from me. I wouldn't give Pablo free reign to make changes yet - mentoring required - but that is exactly how most of us start off while we learn. I know I started that way. -gps On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 5:06 AM Victor Stinner wrote: > Oh, I forgot to mention that Pablo is already helping me on triagging > buildbot failures since 1 month.See my email to python-dev for the > context: > > "[Python-Dev] How to watch buildbots?" > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2018-May/153754.html > > You can see his emails on the buildbot-status mailing list: > https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/buildbot-status.python.org/ > > Victor > > 2018-06-13 18:16 GMT+02:00 Victor Stinner : > > Hi, > > > > I propose to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as a core developer and so > > open a vote during one week. If there is no strong opposition, I will > > promote him but also continue to mentor him for a least one month. > > > > Pablo is contributing frequently to Python since almost one year. He > > added os.preadv()/pwritev() to Python 3.7 and os.posix_spawn() to > > Python 3.8. I am now waiting for his os.copy_file_range() function! > > (Others are working on it.) > > https://bugs.python.org/issue26826 > > > > I am mentoring Pablo Salingo Salgado since January. I am watching his > > hard work since last September. He made many non trivial and useful > > contributions to Python. > > > > I think that he understands well how Python is developed, is > > respectful, try to find answers alone before asking, and is eager to > > learn. In case of doubt, he ask others before doing something, like > > closing an issue. I trust that Pablo will respect opinions of others, > > like not merging a PR if someone disagree. > > > > Pablo's merged PR: > > > https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aclosed+is%3Apr+author%3Apablogsal+ > > > > He got 22 commits merged into master between September 2017 and June > 2018. > > > > If Pablo is promoted as a core developer, I propose to continue to be > > his mentor for at least one month, and ask him before merging any PR. > > > > Note: Pablo already has the bug triage permission for 5 months: > > > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-January/005133.html > > > > Victor > ___ > python-committers mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 16:11 Carol Willing wrote: > +1 With Victor's mentoring (1 or 2 months), I believe that it is > reasonable to promote Pablo to a core developer either now or after 3 > months of coaching. > > I would also like to see Cheryl Sabella who has been very active on the > bug tracker to also be promoted to a core developer as well as Emily > Morehouse who has been at the Language Summit for several years. > In both cases I think we just need someone to start a separate thread asking to have them be promoted along with the usual promise to mentor them for a month or so. -Brett > > I'm happy to trust Victor's perspective as well as Pablo being respectful > of the merge process. > > FWIW, I also believe that triaging issues, writing documentation, and > contributing code are all valuable to the success of CPython. Without issue > triage and quality documentation being valued, the users and contributors > suffer a lack of information and efficiency as well as demotivating > potential developers. > > > On Jun 13, 2018, at 1:46 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: > > Pablo proved its steady involvment in Python for almost one year with > multiple significant contributions (new os functions). IMHO you are > pushing the bar too high. > > > > I think Pablo will be good core developer and agree with the > description given by Victor.But it seems that he still needs to learn > something about what changes are good for Python > ___ > python-committers mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 10:16 AM Victor Stinner wrote: > I propose to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as a core developer and so > open a vote during one week. If there is no strong opposition, I will > promote him but also continue to mentor him for a least one month. > > [snip] > > I am mentoring Pablo Salingo Salgado since January. I am watching his > hard work since last September. He made many non trivial and useful > contributions to Python. > > I think that he understands well how Python is developed, is > respectful, try to find answers alone before asking, and is eager to > learn. In case of doubt, he ask others before doing something, like > closing an issue. I trust that Pablo will respect opinions of others, > like not merging a PR if someone disagree. > > [snip] > > If Pablo is promoted as a core developer, I propose to continue to be > his mentor for at least one month, and ask him before merging any PR. +1 I have had no negative (or any) experiences with Pablo and otherwise trust Victor's judgement and mentoring. Regarding if Pablo has done "enough", ultimately folks get commit privileges at the point that they show they will be a benefit to Python development and we trust them enough to merge PRs. Any other criteria feels rather secondary, considering the variety of ways a core developer can contribute. We don't need to aim for exclusivity. (It's not like we have a limit on the number of people that can have commit privileges.) In this case we have a respected core developer (Victor) expressing his trust, suggesting that Python will benefit via Pablo, and offering to mentor him. Unless someone says they do not trust Pablo, I don't see any reason here to object. That said, I agree that core developers in particular should be active on the issue tracker and reviewing PRs, and it makes sense to reward folks you show a commitment to helping there. I just don't think that is necessarily a major criteria for becoming a core developer, especially when someone like Victor vouches for the candidate. Sometimes I wonder if we scare off otherwise amazing folks because they think we expect a significant sacrifice of time or we inadvertently make them feel like they aren't good enough. It's easy for us to mess this up! :/ -eric ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Mentoring Office Hours - the idea, and a question
Thanks for starting this, Brian. As such, it needs a person/persons/list to contact should something arise > in this context that needs to be handled. What/who should that be? * Suggestion 2: Create some new list with a few key people on it. > * Suggestion 3: List some direct names. Who? I personally prefer knowing names. If it will be a mailing list, I'd like to know who are in the mailing list. Related, I believe there is a new Code of Conduct working group within the PSF, but I don't know what is the scope of that working group. https://mail.python.org/pipermail/psf-community/2018-April/000488.html Perhaps to start it could just be some of us who wants to volunteer and do it? I can set aside 1 hr each week Thursday as my office hours, between 7 PM - 8 PM Pacific. Mariatta On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 3:08 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: > 2018-05-16 11:31 GMT-04:00 Victor Stinner : > > I'm usually available between 10:00 and 16:00 in the French timezone > > (currently, it's CEST = UTC+2). > > Oh, let me be more specific: > > 10:00-12:00 and 14:00-16:00, Monday to Friday > > Yeah, in France we take our time to eat ;-) > > Victor > ___ > python-committers mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > ᐧ ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer
On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 4:40 AM, Berker Peksağ wrote: > This isn't about my or someone else's high standards. We keep saying > we need more triagers and reviewers, and we keep promoting people who > didn't do any issue triaging and code review. It's not fair to > contributors who have spent so much time working on these areas. Surely the solution is to promote more people who do those things, not to turn away people making other contributions? We need more contributors of all kinds. +1 from me. -n -- Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as core developer
I just wanted to say I agree with everything Eric said, for +1 from me. On Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 14:34 Eric Snow, wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 10:16 AM Victor Stinner > wrote: > > I propose to promote Pablo Salingo Salgado as a core developer and so > > open a vote during one week. If there is no strong opposition, I will > > promote him but also continue to mentor him for a least one month. > > > > [snip] > > > > I am mentoring Pablo Salingo Salgado since January. I am watching his > > hard work since last September. He made many non trivial and useful > > contributions to Python. > > > > I think that he understands well how Python is developed, is > > respectful, try to find answers alone before asking, and is eager to > > learn. In case of doubt, he ask others before doing something, like > > closing an issue. I trust that Pablo will respect opinions of others, > > like not merging a PR if someone disagree. > > > > [snip] > > > > If Pablo is promoted as a core developer, I propose to continue to be > > his mentor for at least one month, and ask him before merging any PR. > > +1 > > I have had no negative (or any) experiences with Pablo and otherwise > trust Victor's judgement and mentoring. > > Regarding if Pablo has done "enough", ultimately folks get commit > privileges at the point that they show they will be a benefit to > Python development and we trust them enough to merge PRs. Any other > criteria feels rather secondary, considering the variety of ways a > core developer can contribute. We don't need to aim for exclusivity. > (It's not like we have a limit on the number of people that can have > commit privileges.) In this case we have a respected core developer > (Victor) expressing his trust, suggesting that Python will benefit via > Pablo, and offering to mentor him. Unless someone says they do not > trust Pablo, I don't see any reason here to object. > > That said, I agree that core developers in particular should be active > on the issue tracker and reviewing PRs, and it makes sense to reward > folks you show a commitment to helping there. I just don't think that > is necessarily a major criteria for becoming a core developer, > especially when someone like Victor vouches for the candidate. > Sometimes I wonder if we scare off otherwise amazing folks because > they think we expect a significant sacrifice of time or we > inadvertently make them feel like they aren't good enough. It's easy > for us to mess this up! :/ > > -eric > ___ > python-committers mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
