[python-committers] Please stop fixing easy issues right now! Leave them as exercices to newcomes

2017-06-02 Thread Victor Stinner 
Hi,

I discussed with Mariatta and Carol at Pycon US about new contributors
and the difficulty to find "easy issues" to start contributing to
CPython. The thing is that easy issues usually are fixed in less than
24 hours which doesn't give the opportunity to newcomers to fix them.

*Many* people ask me regulary "how to find easy Python issues", and
the last 3 years, I always failed to find such issues... Many "easy
issues" are older than 3 years old, have more than 20 comments and no
compromise has been found how to fix the "easy" issue...

I propose a new policy for core developers: stop fixing really easy
issues! I suggest to follow Brett Cannon's example. Instead of fixing
importlib bugs, Brett told me that he started to describe the bug and
explain how to fix it. According to his own experience, it works well
and is very valuable!

The plan is to recruit new contributors and mentor them to grow our
team. More contributors = more people to review changes = more
diversity = less bugs = etc. (long win-win list ;-))

I started with 4 issues on reference leaks found by new Zachary's
"Refleak" Gentoo and Windows buildbots. I used a script that I wrote
to identify one test leaking references, but I didn't write the fix.
Usually, writing the fix is the simplest task: the boring and complex
task is more to isolate the leaking test method. Hum, the next step is
to explain how to fix such issue, I may do that on the core
menthorship mailing list.

http://bugs.python.org/issue30547
http://bugs.python.org/issue30546
http://bugs.python.org/issue30542
http://bugs.python.org/issue30536

I added [EASY] in the issue title to advertise these issues and used
the "easy (C)" keyword. Since the proposal rule asking core dev is
new, I also write a comment to explain my plan ;-)

More generally, I now suggest to spend more time on mentoring
newcomers and review changes instead of writing new changes. This idea
is not mine, it's just a very good advice that Mariatta gave me ;-)

Since I know that it's a very different job and can be seen as less
interesting, it's not mandatory at all! It's just an advice if you
want to try "something new" ;-)

I will also try to spend more time next weeks on our core menthorship
mailing list.

What do you think?

Victor
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Re: [python-committers] Please stop fixing easy issues right now! Leave them as exercices to newcomes

2017-06-02 Thread Antoine Pitrou 

Hi,

Le 02/06/2017 à 11:23, Victor Stinner a écrit :
> 
> *Many* people ask me regulary "how to find easy Python issues", and
> the last 3 years, I always failed to find such issues... Many "easy
> issues" are older than 3 years old, have more than 20 comments and no
> compromise has been found how to fix the "easy" issue...

In that case, it's probably reasonable to remove the "easy" tag ;-)

> I propose a new policy for core developers: stop fixing really easy
> issues!

That's a good policy.  I remember doing so some years ago.  Of course,
if some "easy" issue you care about hasn't been fixed for 6 months,
perhaps you can fix it yourself after all.

Also, if some such issues are still unfixed at the eve of a release,
better fix them yourself too.

Regards

Antoine.
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Re: [python-committers] Please stop fixing easy issues right now! Leave them as exercices to newcomes

2017-06-02 Thread Victor Stinner 
2017-06-02 11:28 GMT+02:00 Antoine Pitrou :
> In that case, it's probably reasonable to remove the "easy" tag ;-)

Right, we need to cleanup this old list to "easy" issues.


> That's a good policy.  I remember doing so some years ago.  Of course,
> if some "easy" issue you care about hasn't been fixed for 6 months,
> perhaps you can fix it yourself after all.
>
> Also, if some such issues are still unfixed at the eve of a release,
> better fix them yourself too.

Sure. But we are closer to the beginning of the 3.7 cycle than the
end, so it should be ok. Moreover, I noticed more active contributors
since we migrated to GitHub. So I don't worry at all :-)

Victor
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Re: [python-committers] Please stop fixing easy issues right now! Leave them as exercices to newcomes

2017-06-02 Thread Berker Peksağ 
On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Victor Stinner
 wrote:
> *Many* people ask me regulary "how to find easy Python issues", and
> the last 3 years, I always failed to find such issues... Many "easy
> issues" are older than 3 years old, have more than 20 comments and no
> compromise has been found how to fix the "easy" issue...

See http://psf.upfronthosting.co.za/roundup/meta/issue605 for the
previous discussion on easy issues. I re-triaged some of them (the
initial list is at
http://psf.upfronthosting.co.za/roundup/meta/msg3169) in the past
year, but that's not something I want to do in my free time anymore
(and unsurprisingly, companies aren't interested to fund issue
triaging work)

> I added [EASY] in the issue title to advertise these issues and used
> the "easy (C)" keyword.

Please consider not using prefixes in issue titles. Setting
appropriate fields in the issue detail page should be enough. There is
no need to duplicate the information in the title.

--Berker
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Re: [python-committers] I have blocked Wes Turner from the Python org on GitHub

2017-06-02 Thread Brett Cannon 
I just wanted to quickly let people know I lifted Wes' two-month ban and
emailed him to notify him of the lifting.

On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 at 14:40 Brett Cannon  wrote:

> In the (long) discussion of
> https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/6, Wes Turner began to do
> his usual posting of lists. People pointed out he was stepping out of line
> by being somewhat off-topic and seemingly lecturing folks. He posted some
> of his lists again and then I warned him that if he did it again I would
> block him for a CoC violation since he did not want to respect anyone's
> time by taking the time to edit what amount to dumping his personal notes
> on GitHub. (This is a long-standing issue, BTW, with Wes where he has been
> warned in other settings like distutils-sig about his posting behaviour.)
>
> Unfortunately he did it again for
> https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/66. Since GitHub only has
> organization-level blocks I have blocked him at that level (I've also
> already received some +1s from core devs while writing this email for my
> move, so I know others who have interacted with him also support this
> decision).
>
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Re: [python-committers] I have blocked Wes Turner from the Python org on GitHub

2017-06-02 Thread Antoine Pitrou 

How did he react to the whole thing?  Did he give signs of wanting to
improve his behaviour?

Regards

Antoine.


Le 02/06/2017 à 18:47, Brett Cannon a écrit :
> I just wanted to quickly let people know I lifted Wes' two-month ban and
> emailed him to notify him of the lifting.
> 
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 at 14:40 Brett Cannon  > wrote:
> 
> In the (long) discussion
> of https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/6, Wes Turner
> began to do his usual posting of lists. People pointed out he was
> stepping out of line by being somewhat off-topic and seemingly
> lecturing folks. He posted some of his lists again and then I warned
> him that if he did it again I would block him for a CoC violation
> since he did not want to respect anyone's time by taking the time to
> edit what amount to dumping his personal notes on GitHub. (This is a
> long-standing issue, BTW, with Wes where he has been warned in other
> settings like distutils-sig about his posting behaviour.)
> 
> Unfortunately he did it again
> for https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/66. Since GitHub
> only has organization-level blocks I have blocked him at that level
> (I've also already received some +1s from core devs while writing
> this email for my move, so I know others who have interacted with
> him also support this decision).
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [python-committers] I have blocked Wes Turner from the Python org on GitHub

2017-06-02 Thread Brett Cannon 
I just sent the email an hour ago and have not heard anything from him as
of yet.

On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 at 09:55 Antoine Pitrou  wrote:

>
> How did he react to the whole thing?  Did he give signs of wanting to
> improve his behaviour?
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
>
>
> Le 02/06/2017 à 18:47, Brett Cannon a écrit :
> > I just wanted to quickly let people know I lifted Wes' two-month ban and
> > emailed him to notify him of the lifting.
> >
> > On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 at 14:40 Brett Cannon  > > wrote:
> >
> > In the (long) discussion
> > of https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/6, Wes Turner
> > began to do his usual posting of lists. People pointed out he was
> > stepping out of line by being somewhat off-topic and seemingly
> > lecturing folks. He posted some of his lists again and then I warned
> > him that if he did it again I would block him for a CoC violation
> > since he did not want to respect anyone's time by taking the time to
> > edit what amount to dumping his personal notes on GitHub. (This is a
> > long-standing issue, BTW, with Wes where he has been warned in other
> > settings like distutils-sig about his posting behaviour.)
> >
> > Unfortunately he did it again
> > for https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/66. Since GitHub
> > only has organization-level blocks I have blocked him at that level
> > (I've also already received some +1s from core devs while writing
> > this email for my move, so I know others who have interacted with
> > him also support this decision).
> >
> >
> >
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