Re: [opensource-dev] Destination Guide Categories not working...

[Yoz Grahame]

Coincidentally, this particular issue has just started being investigated
from an internal report. However it seems to be really weird; so far, the
team has only been able to repro it reliably on two of the many PCs in the
office, despite all using the same (or close enough) viewer versions.
The internal issue has been cloned & linked to WEB-3396. If you can throw
any extra light on it, we'd appreciate it!

On 10 December 2010 05:44, Sarah (Esbee) Kuehnle wrote:

> Hi Ponzu,
>
> That's all web content the Viewer team doesn't control. Could you file a
> WEB ticket in Jira?
>
> Thanks!
> Esbee
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Ponzu  wrote:
>
>> Open Sidebar, and hand of SL icon
>> Click Open Destination Guide.
>> Click on the Category: All pop down.
>> Select one of the items.
>>
>> So far as I can tell, clicking on a category doesn't do anything.  No
>> highlighting, no list refresh, no click...nada.
>>
>> I don't see a relevant Jira.
>>
>> This happens with SL beta and SL V2.
>>
>> If someone can point me at the relevant source files, I can take a look at
>> it.
>>
>> regards,
>> lee
>>
>> ___
>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
>> privileges
>>
>
>
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Destination Guide Categories not working...

[Yoz Grahame]

Oops - after further investigation (and actually paying attention to the
finer details of what Ponzu had written) it turns out that this *is* a
viewer issue after all. VWR-24164<https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24164>

On 10 December 2010 14:28, Yoz Grahame  wrote:

> Coincidentally, this particular issue has just started being investigated
> from an internal report. However it seems to be really weird; so far, the
> team has only been able to repro it reliably on two of the many PCs in the
> office, despite all using the same (or close enough) viewer versions.
> The internal issue has been cloned & linked to WEB-3396. If you can throw
> any extra light on it, we'd appreciate it!
>
>
> On 10 December 2010 05:44, Sarah (Esbee) Kuehnle wrote:
>
>> Hi Ponzu,
>>
>> That's all web content the Viewer team doesn't control. Could you file a
>> WEB ticket in Jira?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Esbee
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Ponzu  wrote:
>>
>>> Open Sidebar, and hand of SL icon
>>> Click Open Destination Guide.
>>> Click on the Category: All pop down.
>>> Select one of the items.
>>>
>>> So far as I can tell, clicking on a category doesn't do anything.  No
>>> highlighting, no list refresh, no click...nada.
>>>
>>> I don't see a relevant Jira.
>>>
>>> This happens with SL beta and SL V2.
>>>
>>> If someone can point me at the relevant source files, I can take a look
>>> at it.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> lee
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
>>> privileges
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
>> privileges
>>
>
>
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] opensource-dev Digest, Vol 11, Issue 36

[Yoz Grahame]

> >Jonathan Yap wrote:
> >
> >I wrote two programs that use settings.xml to produce this massive table:
> >http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Debug_Settings
> >
> >While doing this I found 4 places with duplicate entries and 1 entry that
> is repeated 4 times.  There is also a pair of unnecessary tags.
>

*WILD APPLAUSE*

Thank you, Jonathan! That's fantastic!

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] [WEB] Some Wiki pages unreadable when not logged in

[Yoz Grahame]

Could you go into more detail about the "SSL" thing? I'm still seeing this
problem.

As of Wednesday morning (Pacific), the wiki has been thoroughly rebuilt,
upgraded and moved to new hosting. (It's *much* faster now, and should be
more stable.) However, clearly we have some teething issues. This is one the
team may already be aware of, but I'll send it their way anyway.

If you find any more problems, please file a WEB issue with "
wiki.secondlife.com" component. The new infrastructure should allow us to
iterate faster on bugfixes and upgrades, so I'm hoping we can get this one
nailed quickly (as soon as we diagnose it).

Thanks for raising it!

On 15 December 2010 20:16, David Simmons  wrote:

> Seem that the string "SSL" caused the problem.
>
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Ricky  wrote:
> > I was just looking up a reference in the wiki (
> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlKey2Name ) and found it to be
> > largely empty!  I then check history and source, all looked good. So I
> > browsed other functions, some were visible, some not.  Then I logged
> > in, and viola all were visible. Logged back out, empty again.  Maybe
> > some common template was messed up for anon users?
> >
> > Ricky
> > Crons Stardust
> >
> > PS: Yes, this isn't a viewer issue, but that's why I marked it [WEB].
> > However, I figure someone with more knowledge of the LL wiki template
> > architecture might be able to shed some light/fix it.
> > ___
> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
> >
>
>
>
> --
> “The greatest danger in modern technology isn't that machines will
> begin to think like people, but that people will begin to think like
> machines” Unknown
>
> http://www.google.com/profiles/techiedavid
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

[opensource-dev] LSL function wiki update (was Re: Daily Scrum Summary - Monday, December 20)

[Yoz Grahame]

> *FUTURE*
>
>- [long range]
>
> Update lsl wiki - Change Unsupported icon next to llTextBox to New Feature.
> As this is a locked page a Linden will have to do this.
>

Done - sorry about the delay here.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] web profiles.

[Yoz Grahame]

Erin, you and I have discussed aspects of this several times in the past,
and I'm sure we will again in the future. (I'll comment on the JIRA issue -
thank you for filing it.) However, irrespective of my opinions on the
matter, these issues are related to neither the viewer nor any other open
source projects, so not suited to this mailing list. The Profiles team is
keeping a close eye on the my.secondlife.com component of the WEB project
and has been rapidly turning around fixes in response to filed issues. As
such, JIRA is definitely the best place for these issues to be discussed
(ideally as individual issues, rather than all lumped into one).

-- Yoz

On 11 January 2011 20:48, Erin Mallory  wrote:

>  some of us were using html to cover up the darn twitter and facebook
> widgets
>
> security issues: the twitter widget and facebook like button you cant get
> rid of.
> security issue: if you want your profile visible in SL or at least
> searchable it HAS to be open to the entire world... (only gets protected by
> passord if you remove it from search
> security issue: RL tab is displayed ON THE WEB ...  that alone is
> frightening
> security issue: people are already linking in other peoples profiles into
> webpages, facebook, even other applications now.
> Security issue: with html scrubbed from the text you cant hide profiles,
> even locked ones from bots, or cover up the facebook and twitter widgets.
> Seucrity issue: many groups that should be hidden in the profile by group
> preferences are still being show.
>
> preference issue: many users do NOT want their profiles shown ANYWHERE but
> in the game.
> preference issue: many users do not like the facebook feel
> preference issue: many users like having the partner, payment info, etc
> displayed.
> preference issue: most users would have preferred seeing web bugs fixed
> then resources wasted on facebook style profiles because a few web monkeys
> think that they will attract a few teenagers into SL.
>
> within moments of creation https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3494 has
> already gotten votes as have many other issues related to getting rid of
> these new profiles.
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:54:00 -0800
> > From: kadah.c...@gmail.com
> > To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> > Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] web profiles.
>
> >
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > If its about the possible XSS and html injection, that was fixed today.
> > All profile text info gets escaped now.
> >
> > On 1/11/2011 7:47 PM, Simon Quinnell wrote:
> > > How about you specify the security and privacy issues? No-one here is a
> > > mind reader.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Erin Mallory
> > > mailto:angel_of_crim...@hotmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > because of security and privacy issues with the new profiles can we
> > > please have option to keep the older ones until someone with the
> > > profile team gets their act together?
> > >
> > > seriously, these new profiles are creepy.
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> > > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> > > privileges
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> > > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32)
> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
> >
> > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNLSXYAAoJEIdLfPRu7qE2c1UIALye/0KE3XRvTxSS7ZhBW0i/
> > kE857hMOK8B9sbvbN08m8af8oas30cfIl/a/XvY8Fhf49tMrMlPC28X0OID1DtOs
> > Dt50xkHTp56YqsmMHzcCRHgJN8lb6IonbX44U1VHah8/NEYQ7EejMuyBpnD9Wjvg
> > KPUDsQOBl4vVhaJQ6GHbRQe54PpUzBnWpyecdZ8AvCldLk8L0KJAKVGMVXAKQSpe
> > cFAZUo343UAA6Q15Ymoug4MTN4Z8s3snsL0llIF/XGD71H90KYL9cnxtbj7BmZus
> > G8E3xpdUgPQGXkIwqKQUrZMQlOcINIUo4YuKyE+mK+Sdy6z9B9yOp1kecI70MFE=
> > =djz5
> > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> > ___
> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] web profiles.

[Yoz Grahame]

On 12 January 2011 09:54, Erin Mallory  wrote:

>  there are now separate child issues or linked issues to most of the
> relevant points raised, linked to
> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/web-3494 so if people don't agree with
> parts, they can now vote for the parts they do agree with.  I've also toned
> down some of the language.
>

Many thanks, Erin.

Argent: If you could file a WEB + my.secondlife.com issue, we'll discuss it
there. Thanks!

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] (no subject)

[Yoz Grahame]

Which viewer was this in? As far as I know, there's no such limit in viewer
2 search.

On 25 January 2011 06:47, Malachi  wrote:

>
> Curious as to why when looking in the land section of search, if you
> reorder the list of areas too quickly it says you are blocked from
> searching because you have done too many searches. Please try again in a
> few minutes. I only ran one search. all i did was sort by name or by size.
> Shouldn't this be pulling the list and storing it. instead of researching
> each time the list is sorted?
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] (no subject)

[Yoz Grahame]

I've just heard from another resident who experienced this with Viewer 2. If
you can file a JIRA with a repro and a screenshot (or as much useful
information as you have, anyway) I'll pass it on to the Search team.

On 25 January 2011 15:29, Yoz Grahame  wrote:

> Which viewer was this in? As far as I know, there's no such limit in viewer
> 2 search.
>
>
> On 25 January 2011 06:47, Malachi  wrote:
>
>>
>> Curious as to why when looking in the land section of search, if you
>> reorder the list of areas too quickly it says you are blocked from
>> searching because you have done too many searches. Please try again in a
>> few minutes. I only ran one search. all i did was sort by name or by size.
>> Shouldn't this be pulling the list and storing it. instead of researching
>> each time the list is sorted?
>> --
>> Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>> ___
>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
>> privileges
>>
>
>
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] draft wiki Visual Studio 10 Information

[Yoz Grahame]

That looks fantastic. Thanks so much for your work on this!
(I can't comment on the content of the page as I've not been involved in any
of the autobuild work, I'm just very appreciative)

On 24 February 2011 13:47, Nicky Perian  wrote:

> Edited per input from Twisted Laws.
>
> Thank You, Twisted.
>
> --
> *From:* Nicky Perian 
> *To:* opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> *Sent:* Thu, February 24, 2011 11:52:01 AM
> *Subject:* [opensource-dev] draft wiki Visual Studio 10 Information
>
>
> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Nicky_Perian/Visual_Studio_10_Autobuild
>
>
>
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Please Resolve These Jiras as Fixed

[Yoz Grahame]

All resolved. Thanks for the heads-up!

On 11 March 2011 01:40, Stickman  wrote:

> Not totally relevant as they're web issues, but the new community site
> fixed a couple issues I'd written Jiras about.
>
> If someone who is able could resolve them as fixed, since that's the
> resolution, I'd appreciate it. I'd just close them myself but I can't
> resolve them as fixed. I think there's some sort of Jira achievement I
> can unlock for having issues resolved as fixed, too.
>
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-1395
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-1598
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-2905
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stickman
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm 2.6.1 with Advanced and Basic mode

[Yoz Grahame]

On 16 March 2011 17:45, Patnad Babii  wrote:

>   A viewer like this is good, but seriously should be part of the SAME
> viewer as the other use. Simply have it with a button to switch between the
> Easy, Fast and Fun mode or Advanced mode. The viewer is already like 30 meg
> to download so, 10 megs more should’nt be a big challenge for most of the
> users.
>

Good news! It *is* part of the same viewer! (At least, that's the plan.)
You can switch between Basic and Advanced mode on the login screen.
Switching currently requires a viewer restart; we're looking into ways to
make that easier, though that may not be achievable for the 2.6 release.


> With that said, its is nice to see an improvement on the UI for new users,
> but that viewer is VERY limited, with no inventory, no notecard and no
> landmark, its so limited, user will only be able to visit your spotlight
> places. There is not even group in that viewer.
>

Yep - we're deliberately keeping it very simple so that newcomers aren't
overwhelmed with controls, and have less to learn before being rewarded with
a positive initial experience. The emphases are on basic movement, chatting,
making friends and seeing the sights. Once they're comfortable and willing
to explore further or get more involved, switching to Advanced mode only
requires a restart.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm 2.6.1 with Advanced and Basic mode

[Yoz Grahame]

On 16 March 2011 20:25, Yoz Grahame  wrote:

>
> You can switch between Basic and Advanced mode on the login screen.
> Switching currently requires a viewer restart; we're looking into ways to
> make that easier, though that may not be achievable for the 2.6 release.
>

Sorry, I should make sure to not get people's hopes up unduly: Switching
between modes without restart would require extensive additional work. We
all want it, but as yet we don't know if or when it'll happen.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] [JIRA] Projects and Components, my.secondlife.com

[Yoz Grahame]

On 26 March 2011 07:28, Opensource Obscure wrote:

>
> Should something be done about this?
> Should those issues be moved to WEB? to SOCIAL?
> if moved, would be Watchers "migrated" or not?
>

Good question. We're discussing this internally at the moment. In the
meantime, if an issue is definitely with the web interface, please
*Move*the issue to WEB under the
my.secondlife.com component.


> Meta issue https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3535
> currently seems to be the best umbrella for issues related
> to the new Web Profiles & my.secondlife.com.
>
> I'm particularly concerned by the current lack of functionality
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24557
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3511
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25283
> and by disappearing profiles
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3750
>

Thanks for that list - I've taken a spin through them. (Intriguingly, the
last of those may actually be a pre-web-profiles viewer bug, but we haven't
yet got a solid enough repro to be sure. We're investigating what we can in
the meantime.)

The profiles UI is continually (and rapidly) evolving. Please bear with us,
and keep the feedback coming, because we're reading, triaging and acting on
it. Thank you!

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] [JIRA] Projects and Components, my.secondlife.com

[Yoz Grahame]

On 26 March 2011 08:15, Boroondas Gupte  wrote:

>  On 03/26/2011 03:28 PM, Opensource Obscure wrote:
>
> Many issues about Profiles, Picks, Privacy Notes and related
> features are currently filed in JIRA under the VWR Project.
> This prevents them to add "my.secondlife.com" as Component;
> the whole situation seems a bit confused to me.
>
>  If such issues apply to viewer versions that have web profiles, they
> should be filed under WEB, not VWR, I think, unless they are caused by
> functionality that has remained client-side. It's unclear though what the
> right project is when the issue's cause lies in how the web content and the
> viewer interact, or has both client- and server-side causes or if the user
> just cannot tell where the problem is located.
>

Very true. I answered this particular case in my previous mail but this
problem is likely to recur with other bits of web-based UI (e.g. Search).
However, the issue's initial project matters far less than the triage
process that sends it to the right team.

>  Should something be done about this?
> Should those issues be moved to WEB?
>
>  Yes and yes.
>
>   to SOCIAL?
>
>  SOCIAL is not a "Public Portal" project (see the list of 
> projects),
> so I guess issues should only be moved there when the team behind the SOCIAL
> project picks them up (or if another LL team decides to assign the issue to
> them, if they are allowed to do so).
>

Yep.

>  if moved, would be Watchers "migrated" or not?
>
>  Watchers and voters will be preserved. So will comments, attachments,
> environment etc.
>
Everything that is project-specific (e.g. components) will not be preserved,
> even if both the source and destination project feature e.g. components of
> the same name. The mover might be prompted to set some of these freshly as
> part of the moving. (I think for components, that's the case.)
>

Yep yep yep.


>  I tried to use the "Clone" JIRA feature but apparently it doesn't help,
> as I couldn't file the new issue under a different Project.
>
>  Cloning wouldn't be a good idea anyway, as it'd lead to duplicate issues
> and would not take watches, voters and comments with it. (I'm not sure about
> attachments.) Cloning mainly means that the description, environment and
> summary are copied over.
>

We use cloning to take an internal copy of the issue to non-public JIRA
Projects, but keep their statuses in sync.

>  Meta issue https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3535
> currently seems to be the best umbrella for issues related
> to the new Web Profiles & my.secondlife.com.
>
> I'm particularly concerned by the current lack of 
> functionalityhttps://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24557https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3511https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25283
> and by disappearing profileshttps://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3750
>
>  I believe I have the ability to move to WEB. Should I move any of the
> above?
>

It's OK, I've taken care of it. Thanks for the offer. :)


>  More generally, it seems that the jira permission system, while probably
> necessary to avoid honest mistakes by inexperienced users, vandalism and
> edit wars, often is a major obstacle to do useful work, sometimes even to
> Lindens. I think a first step in alleviating that would be to bring some
> more transparency into it:
>
>1. Allow everyone to see what groups exist on jira.
>2. Allow everyone, whether member of a group or not, see what
>permissions each group comes with on what projects.
>3. Document for each group what conditions group members must meet and
>how to apply for membership (if applicable. Obviously, if a group has the
>condition "You have to be a Linden.", no application option for non-Lindens
>is necessary.)
>
> It's true that the way we work with JIRA's structure, while considerably
better than it used to be, is still over-complex and daunting. It's still
our aim to work *with* those filing JIRA issues so that even if they get
some labelling wrong, the issues still end up funnelled to the right place;
we still need to improve our triage processes, and we owe much to the
volunteers who help keep JIRA tidy. The details of the bug itself matter
much more to us than the labelling.

With that in mind, I don't see how your suggested fixes to the permissions
system help these particular cases. Transparency is generally a good thing
(if we're not talking about my bathroom door) but, as said above, maybe the
solutions here are more about improved UI and triage processes.

-- Yoz, battling his US-English spellchecker every step of the way
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] request for double-check about "Releases / Fixed" status

[Yoz Grahame]

On 7 April 2011 04:52, Opensource Obscure wrote:

> I see a couple of issues where the issue status may
> have improperly been set to "Releases / Fixed":
>
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3795
>  


Fixed by Brooke


> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-1295
>

The fix is done but not in a release viewer yet, so I've moved this back to
In Progress (since SH doesn't have "Fix Pending" in its workflow.)

Thanks for highlighting these, OO!

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] OpenID based logins?

[Yoz Grahame]

We've long thought about something like this, but it's currently low on the
priority list.

For it to be really useful, it needs to work for viewer login; however,
*that* needs web-triggered viewer login (as in, your authentication happens
in an external browser window first, and then the viewer logs you straight
in) otherwise you're forced to auth with your OpenID OP in the viewer
window, and that's the classic Password Anti-Pattern*.

Also, *if* we ever do this, we'd probably target Google and Facebook login
first, though I *think* that Google Auth uses OpenID so we might get
everything in one shot. (There's a multiple-orders-of-magnitude difference
between those who'd use Google/Facebook auth and those who even know what
OpenID is)

In principle, I know of no reason why we wouldn't want this. We use OpenID
and OAuth in various places already, and anything that makes it easier for
people to authenticate securely is a Good Thing. However, we need to be
convinced that there are major wins here before it can pushed up in the
priorities.

*
http://www.designingsocialinterfaces.com/patterns/The_Password_Anti-Pattern

On 21 April 2011 22:52, Brandon Husbands  wrote:

> Any thoughts to being able to link your SL account to an open id identity
> server?
>
> --
>
> ---
> This email is a private and confidential communication. Any use of email
> may be subject to the laws and regulations of the United States. You may not
> Repost, Distribute nor reproduce any content of this message.
>
> ---
>
> ---
>
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Higher contrast for build result pages.

[Yoz Grahame]

On 24 April 2011 18:48, CG Linden  wrote:

>
> If anyone offers me an alternate design that looks good, I'll be more
> than happy to incorporate it


I can't pretend to know a lot about this stuff, but I came across this the
other day...
http://ethanschoonover.com/solarized
... which includes (lower down the page) some explanations regarding
contrast & hue combinations for readability. Plus, there's CSS.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] OpenID based logins?

[Yoz Grahame]

On 28 April 2011 01:34, Kadah  wrote:

> How about fixing the openID issues with jira before that? I would like
> to be able to keep issues open within my browser without openID reseting
> every tab the dashboard and forcing their history's to the openID
> process page.
> Monty and Oz said this was a known issue.
>

I don't know which issue you're talking about from your description - is
there an existing issue you can point me to?
The main JIRA-related OpenID issue I'd love to fix is related to timeouts
and sign-out. There is currently no "single-sign-out" in the OpenID spec,
which means that until we can implement a uniform method of doing this
across RPs (which we have a plan for) we need to keep sessions fairly short,
and this is a right pain.


> And I'm also against linking SL accounts with any other service. I feel
> that should be opt-in only and done in a manner that will not risk
> inadvertent disclosures of SL idents (like usernames) to these 3rd parties.
>

I don't see how we could do it *without* it being opt-in. I mean, I'm sure
there are incredibly cunning ways that we could root those details out if we
were really determined, but not only do we not have the time, we're not
actually inclined that way to begin with.

Also, bear in mind that what we're talking about here is use of an OpenID
for private authentication, not for public display. This is not about doing
any kind of public association.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] OS X Lion

[Yoz Grahame]

 Not speaking for the team here (especially because I'm not in viewer 
development), just myself as a Lion user (Mid-2009 MBP, NVidia):  

There are only two major Lion-specific bugs that have bitten my own use so far. 
 

One is Freaky Polygons, which was quickly eased by turning off OpenGL vertex 
buffer objects (VBOs) in the Graphics->Hardware settings. There's a fix of some 
kind in the pipeline.
The other is a weird problem with certain web views (such as Profiles) showing 
up with no CSS or JS; this turned out to be SSL cert related, and there's a fix 
for this one in the pipeline too.

Apart from those two bugs, the viewer Works On My Machine™. I hope it also 
answers the overall question: yes, attention is being paid.

-- Yoz


On Monday, August 15, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Lee ponzu wrote:

> How much attention is being paid to Lion?  I think the natives are starting 
> to get restless.
>  
> ponzu  
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] OS X Lion

[Yoz Grahame]

 I've never seen that *myself*, and I've run a number of different viewer 
builds since installing Lion dev preview 4.

-- Yoz


On Tuesday, August 16, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Lee ponzu wrote:

> i have heard two people report that they cannot *initiate* an IM. They can 
> receive them, but not *start* a session.  
>  
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 7:13 PM, Yoz Grahame  (mailto:y...@lindenlab.com)> wrote:
> >  Not speaking for the team here (especially because I'm not in viewer 
> > development), just myself as a Lion user (Mid-2009 MBP, NVidia):  
> >  
> > There are only two major Lion-specific bugs that have bitten my own use so 
> > far.  
> >  
> > One is Freaky Polygons, which was quickly eased by turning off OpenGL 
> > vertex buffer objects (VBOs) in the Graphics->Hardware settings. There's a 
> > fix of some kind in the pipeline.  
> > The other is a weird problem with certain web views (such as Profiles) 
> > showing up with no CSS or JS; this turned out to be SSL cert related, and 
> > there's a fix for this one in the pipeline too.
> >  
> > Apart from those two bugs, the viewer Works On My Machine™. I hope it also 
> > answers the overall question: yes, attention is being paid.
> >  
> > -- Yoz
> >  
> >  
> > On Monday, August 15, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Lee ponzu wrote:
> >  
> >  
> > > How much attention is being paid to Lion?  I think the natives are 
> > > starting to get restless.
> > >  
> > > ponzu  
> > > ___
> > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> > >  Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting 
> > > privileges
> >  
>  

___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] [JIRA] Proposal - Default Search settings on jira.secondlife.com

[Yoz Grahame]

While I like most of the ideas presented here, this is unlikely to happen in 
the near future as JIRA Quick Search just plain isn't configurable. We'd have 
to augment or replace it somehow, which would require development work, so any 
requests to that effect are highly unlikely to make it anywhere visible on our 
priority list.

That said, I personally (please note the stress there) don't have much of a 
problem with the current Quick Search defaults; yes, they do return tons of 
false positives, but this tends not to matter as much because they're usually 
well ranked. If I'm looking through the results in relevance order then it's 
usually pretty obvious whether what I'm looking for is in there or not. As 
such, I find the "be inclusive, then rank" (i.e. OR with wider fields) approach 
better than "be exclusive and limited" (i.e. AND) when checking whether a given 
issue has been reported. In other words, I'm agreeing with Dave Booth's point 
2, but saying that this rationale applies to the other two points as well. From 
what I've seen, JIRA's default search ranking algorithm takes it all into 
account. My recommendation is to search and use results with that in mind.

-- Yoz 

On Friday, August 26, 2011 at 10:34 AM, opensourceobscure wrote:

> Currently, if you search multiple keywords on jira.secondlife.com 
> (http://jira.secondlife.com)
> you get result that include at least one of the keywords
> in Summary OR Description OR Comments fields.
> 
> Unsurprisingly you often get thousands of results for every search,
> which is pointless. This requires users to tweak the search
> parameters, which is not trivial for common people.
> 
> Instead, common people may know (by using Google) that
> the more keywords you use, the best results you get.
> On SL JIRA, it's the opposite.
> 
> 
> PROPOSAL:
> 
> 1) exclude "Comments" from fields where keywords are searched for
> 2) exclude "Description" too (this may be excessive but usually works for me)
> 3) replace the "OR" logic operator (which is implicit in searches)
> with the "AND" logic operator
> 
> I think that this would lead to a better use of JIRA for
> SL users willing to give feedback. More specifically,
> the number of duplicate issues may be reduced because
> the search for existing issues would be more efficient.
> 
> -- 
> Opensource Obscure
> https://twitter.com/oobscure
> https://my.secondlife.com/opensource.obscure
> Join this group to discuss Second Life Viewer: https://j.mp/slv2group
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] [JIRA] 'Affects viewer' use

[Yoz Grahame]

Fixed. Thanks for the suggestion!

On 2 May 2010 06:59, Kent Quirk  wrote:

> I don't see why we have that instruction. If you've tested on multiple
> versions, we'd love to know that. So yes, affects version can be
> multi-selected. You should only check items that you actually have tested.
>
> I'll ask someone to modify the text there.
>
>Q
>
> On May 1, 2010, at 8:43 AM, Opensource Obscure wrote:
>
> >
> > What I'm supposed to do when I verify that a bug filed
> > against Viewer 2.0 also affects Viewer 2.0.1 ?
> >
> > Should I really file a new, almost identical new ticket
> > for Viewer 2.0.1?
> >
> > This seems to be the meaning of the "Please ONLY select
> > a single version" phrase that appears near the
> > "Affect Version" field (or not - see below)
> >
> > However, this doesn't look feasible and sustainable to me:
> > it's time-consuming and -worst- all feedback, comments
> > and votes get lost.
> >
> > Admittely, I never acted this way, and I always checked
> > more than a version when appropriate; also, my feeling
> > is that is the common behaviour on JIRA.
> >
> > Maybe I'm just wrong about Releases and Versions? :)
> > maybe what the phrase actually means is that using
> > the same ticket for Viewer 2.0 and Viewer 2.0.1 is OK;
> > but if the same behaviour affects Snowglobe or other
> > branches, a new  different ticket should be filed?
> >
> > thanks in advance for clearing my mind..
> >
> > opensource obscure
> > ___
> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] WebOS curiosity

[Yoz Grahame]

On 31 May 2010 16:45, Meadhbh Hamrick  wrote:

> so the palm pre's web browser is not all that primitive. but still, i
> don't think it supports WebGL (yet), but it does support flash.


There's now a native SDK for webOS - several 3D games are using it, and it
supports OpenGL 2.0 ES and SDL.
http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1989&Itemid=331
So, in theory, you could take chunks of the existing viewer code and move
them over, though the renderer would need to be made OpenGL ES compliant
(which would be useful for several other platforms).

The Pre has a PowerVR SGX530, same as the Droid and the N900; it's a
less-capable version of the 535 in the iPhone 3GS.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

[Yoz Grahame]

On 16 August 2010 17:58, Andromeda Quonset wrote:

>
> At the risk of upsetting the decorum here, I just can't let this go by.
> Mr. Oz Linden, perhaps YOU should depart from ALL viewer development.
> Statements  of "It is absolutely not going to happen, and any suggestion to
> that effect will be ignored." are not going to endear yourself with the
> community.  Not that I can speak for anyone but myself, but your statement
> is extremely Draconian in nature and is only going to stir up trouble in the
> long run.  You should recognize that it is occasionally helpful to simply
> throw out the baby with the bath water, and start fresh.
>

The Snowstorm project is aimed at dramatically increasing community
involvement in Viewer development and improving communications around it.
Part of that improvement involves increasing the depth and clarity of those
communications; being definitive about our future plans and managing
expectations so that everyone knows what's coming to the platform. When we
can be definitive about what's open for consideration in a particular area,
we can save a lot of fruitless arguing.

We are open to being guided by constructive arguments, requests and code
contributions; that's what Snowstorm is all about. Contributors may guide us
in directions we'd never expected, which would be fantastic, or just help us
prioritise and fix existing problems. "Make the sidebar undockable" or
"Reduce the vertical area taken by chat messages" are requests that can go
onto the backlog for discussion, triage and implementation. "Ditch
everything new and go back to what it was before" is neither a constructive
argument nor a well-specified request. It tells us nothing about what you
believe to be wrong with the new UI, why you believe it, and what we can do
to fix it. Once we are able to discuss specifics, then we can start working
on them.

Linden Lab has the final say in what goes into the Linden Lab viewer. A
third-party viewer team has the final say in what goes into their viewer.
Linus Torvalds has the final say in what goes into the Linux kernel.  If you
want something in the kernel that Linus doesn't, you can just clone the main
source tree and pull in updates while you make your own changes, then
distribute your own kernel. Distributed version control's great like that,
and it's why we moved to Mercurial. It makes it much easier for third-party
viewers to maintain their own UI features, or contribute them back to us,
while regularly pulling in the improvements we make to the underlying
platform so as to make Second Life better for everyone.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

[Yoz Grahame]

On 17 August 2010 02:44, Henri Beauchamp  wrote:

> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 19:27:34 -0700, Yoz Grahame wrote:
>
> > Linden Lab has the final say in what goes into the Linden Lab viewer. A
> > third-party viewer team has the final say in what goes into their viewer.
>
> Indeed, but if LL is so close-minded as to reject any change to the UI
> that would allow v1 lovers to adopt v2, then there is no chance that
> any v1 developer will migrate to the v2 code base...
>

That's not what I meant, and if I gave that impression, I apologise.

Requests for well-specified elements of the v1.x UI, backed up by reasoned
arguments, are something we can put in the backlog for discussion. Requests
for either reverting the entire v2.x UI to that of v1.x, or keeping both
running in parallel, will not make it into the backlog; firstly because
neither is feasible for us, and secondly because such a request in no way
helps us to focus on what the specific UI problems are.

There have been several hundred UI changes between 1.23 and 2.1.1, ranging
from the creation of the sidebar to individual checkbox relocation. Many of
those came from resident feedback, or from many hours of user experience
testing. If you want any of them reversed or changed, it's not unreasonable
that we require specifics and reasoning before we commit to the work. Once
you supply that, we can weigh up the pros and cons, maybe open the question
up to more feedback, and then make a decision.

We may, after consideration, ultimately decide against your suggestion. It's
our right as the project owners. Some seem to interpret disagreement as
ignoring feedback. This is not the case, and our push for a more open
development process relies on participants being open to occasionally losing
arguments. We have far better things to do than spend weeks on a project
that's all about opening ourselves to more feedback purely so we can ignore
it. (Some might see it as a demented kind of fun for the first few hours
until the beer runs out, but we're not into those kinds of parties.)

Certainly, we've already had a large amount of feedback about what users
like and dislike. Much of the negative feedback, when reduced to actionable
specifics, focuses on a small number of high-profile changes; for example,
the sidebar. When examined further, many of the problems are around certain
aspects of those changes rather than the changes themselves; for example,
the sidebar's modality and non-detachability rather than its entire
existence.

When focused in this way, the work required to give our mainline viewer far
wider approval becomes much more manageable than reverting the entire UI.
Some of it may involve bringing back aspects of v1, or coming up with
something new, or making certain elements more configurable, or simply
choosing better defaults. There's no single answer, but there is a single
goal: we want to make something that's better for everyone than anything
we've made before.

On a related note, Esbee's put up the backlog:
https://spreadsheets2.google.com/ccc?key=tCVGlO5ndR_oyrfKEC9CxKA&hl=en#gid=5
If you think we've been ignoring negative feedback, please take a look. And
gosh, what's that at the very top?

-- Yoz Linden
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Yoz Grahame]

Folks, neither the Scripters list nor opensource-dev are suitable places for
discussing aspects of Display Names that don't directly relate to the lists'
purposes. Not only is it off-topic, but there are far better venues for
providing feedback to the project owners, such as in the blog post comments.
Trust me, taking this discussion elsewhere will have a better result for all
concerned.

On 17 August 2010 20:20, Daniel Smith  wrote:

>  [ high-level stuff about Display Names ]
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] the snowstorm backlog

[Yoz Grahame]

On 17 August 2010 23:34, Lance Corrimal  wrote:

> ...what's with that google spreadsheet, I thought there's the jira?
>

Good point! But the JIRA interface isn't great at backlog organisation with
Scrum. Now if only there was some kind of Scrum-focused add-on that we could
use for managing scrums and the backlog in a nice JIRA-integrated and
publicly-visible way...

http://www.atlassian.com/software/greenhopper/

I guess we'd better do that, then.

(I was actually in the middle of drafting the blog post about it when I saw
this. I should probably stop reading mail and get back to it.)

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

[Yoz Grahame]

On 18 August 2010 09:53, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:

>
> I think that if someone were to step up and do the work to create a
> better pie menu implementation that we could do good comparisons with
> (and especially if it allowed menu style to be a preference setting),
> then it would be a much more interesting discussion.
>

Existing JIRA here, for further discussion and patch submission:
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-17388

If someone wants to argue for changing the sub-menu placement behaviour,
that should probably go in a sub-task. Might be interesting to prototype
both, though what those requesting this are primarily arguing for is
"exactly how it used to be".  There may be potential problems if new menu
items have been added for particular contexts, requiring rearrangement. I
have no idea how real this problem currently is, but it would need
investigation before we can assume that pie menus are easily added back.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm, JIRA and versions

[Yoz Grahame]

On 19 August 2010 13:04, Carlo Wood  wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 09:45:14PM -0400, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> > > for clarification...). If correct, I'll start moving JIRAs from SNOW
> > > to VWR when I see fit.
> >
> > That's correct.
>
> I can see some inconvenience arising from renaming SNOW's to VWR's.
> We use 'SNOW-xyz' a lot in (text) files to refer to the archive about
> it in the jira. I don't think that this link should be lost.
>
> In other words, a rename should not make it impossible to find it
> back under the original SNOW-xyz number.
>

Movement of a JIRA issue between projects *usually* leaves the old one
automatically redirecting to the new one. In other words, all the old links
and references should still take you to the right issue. If this isn't
happening, let me know.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] separation between login id and publicly visible id(s) (was: display names = the end of 1.x viewers?)

[Yoz Grahame]

On 23 August 2010 02:32, Boroondas Gupte  wrote:

> You'd win :-)
> SVC-6212  (which also includes
> the 1:many relationship between (1) and (2) Argent suggests below)
>
>
As I commented in that issue, this is something we at the Lab would dearly
love to have. In fact, we did some technical design on a master account
system as part of a project which unfortunately had to be significantly
scaled back. The idea definitely isn't dead, though.

As Josh and others have said, one of the things we'd need is a unique secret
account identifier. Unfortunately the only existing account datum which
might work here is email address, and that's not unique, though we're
starting to think that it really should be. Using the email address as a
unique master account ID (and then choosing avatar on login) would probably
be the way to go - once we've managed to move email address out of the
avatar record, which is significant work in itself and not currently on the
roadmap. (However, there are also advantages to making email
unique-per-avatar; the horrible hackiness of the IM<->Email system is a
demonstration of that)


> Which would allow for interesting permission schemes, like allowing
> transfer of products only between avatars of the same account. (This would
> probably have to be a new permission. Allowing transfer of all "no-transfer"
> items between Alts, as 
> SVC-4319suggests, would probably 
> upset quite some people.)
>
> But even without that, a 'master account' would make a lot of things
> easier, like one could account verify all Alts at once, see billings for all
> linked agents centrally etc.
>

Yep. But obviously, as well as looking at this as a whole pile of useful
functionality, one has to look at this as a possibly-bigger pile of work.
Especially since most of the value comes from a load of new or overhauled
interfaces and logic rather than merely creating the underlying structure.
(Also, we consider any proposed changes to the permissions system with all
due reluctance, not to mention outright terror.)

In short: it's not a question of if but when and how, especially in relation
to all our other priorities.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] separation between login id and publicly visible id(s) (was: display names = the end of 1.x viewers?)

[Yoz Grahame]

On 23 August 2010 11:51, Joel Foner  wrote:

>  As Josh and others have said, one of the things we'd need is a unique
>> secret account identifier. Unfortunately the only existing account datum
>> which might work here is email address, and that's not unique, though we're
>> starting to think that it really should be
>>
>
> Just a quick note... email addresses change fairly regularly. Basing the
> permanent unique account identifier on a transient token seems bound to
> create problems in the longer term due to user movements from one email
> address to another, and old addresses become invalid and even forgotten by
> users.
>

Many other services seem to manage it just fine. But this is the kind of
devil in the details that makes it require some more thought. I'm sure we'd
have some kind of internal account ID (in a similar vein to agent ID) to
which everything's tied, so that email changes would have minimal
administrative update cost, and we'd keep a history of all such changes.
That's *if* this is the route we take, if and when we do this work.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...

[Yoz Grahame]

This *was* a serious bug, but fixed over a year ago. Now a premium account
in default is merely suspended with the ability to fully restore on payment.

On 28 August 2010 10:19, Gareth Nelson  wrote:

> That's a serious bug in LL's business model - your account is safer as
> a basic, since a premium account that quits paying means the account
> is deleted (rather than merely downgraded).
>
> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 5:35 PM, Tigro Spottystripes
>  wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA512
> >
> > btw, if you're considering changing your account from premium to basic,
> > be sure to pay any money you own to LL and then downgrade your account
> > thru the site, do not just stop paying, if you stop paying them while
> > still being a premium they will wipe out all your account's data,
> > inventory L$ balance etc (i've seen some people that had the
> > misconception that to downgrade all you had to do was stop sending money
> > to LL, the ones that didn't got set straight in time lost everything)
> >
> > On 28/8/2010 13:01, mysticaldem...@xrgrid.com wrote:
> >> I don’t think anyone disagrees with.  The problem is you can’t get a
> >> homestead unless you have a full sim already and so you need to rent
> >> from someone and this puts you dependent on someone else which is
> >> frustrating for people.  So to log in one day and see all your hard work
> >> returned to your lost and found isn’t a pleasant experience and seems SL
> >> if they are serious about the user experience would have some better
> >> ways to handle this.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I don’t know if you rent from someone else if you can do a restore of
> >> your region to the new location.  But seems like there are ways to make
> >> this better if not just let people rent homesteads which to me I believe
> >> would be a huge market.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Anyway this whole subject is off topic for this mailing list and
> >> probably should be on the SL forums.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> M.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >> *From:* opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
> >> [mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Joel
> >> Foner
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, August 28, 2010 11:49 AM
> >> *To:* Aleric Inglewood
> >> *Cc:* opensource-dev
> >> *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's
> >> customers...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> After being a paying customer for more than a year, renting a
> homestead,
> >> and thus paying Linden Lab ~ USD$ 1000 or so ... they just take the
> sim
> >> offline, with no opening to even discuss the matter.
> >>
> >> Why? Because of something I did? No. The reason is that Linden
> >> Lab isn't interested in the "little people". Unless you have a FULL
> >> sim of USD$ 300 per month, you don't count.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There is a simple answer for this. You are the customer of your landlord
> >> in this case, not Linden Lab. Yes, you have a Second Life account, but
> >> you are not renting your land from Linden Lab. You are renting your land
> >> from another avatar in Second Life. Linden Lab is not a party to your
> >> decision to rent... so why are they accountable if some other avatar
> >> bails out and decides to "level their city block"? If the landlord
> >> decided to stop renting, boot everyone off and re-terraform the region
> >> for some completely different use, would you think Linden Lab would have
> >> any responsibility for stopping that or somehow compensating you? It's
> >> the landlord's land, and they can do anything with it they choose to,
> >> including shut it down, leave, take it over from the renters, or shut it
> >> down and let no one else in at all.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Joel
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> > Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (MingW32)
> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
> >
> > iEYEAREKAAYFAkx5Os0ACgkQ8ZFfSrFHsmWNbQCeL35cNo4MkluDPXFx2+ZGb3z3
> > G/UAn31zdQ2HEKMoRzbp+3CYV/C+O5CM
> > =pGVm
> > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> > ___
> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
> >
>
>
>
> --
> “Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for
> everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” -
> Printcrime by Cory Doctrow
>
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe

Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...

[Yoz Grahame]

On 28 August 2010 21:25, Tigro Spottystripes
wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Please read http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-2647
>

Thanks! Resolved.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Severe water flicker in recent development build

[Yoz Grahame]

Might be worth running this past Team Shining, especially since they've
worked on some major speed improvements to water recently. No idea how close
they are to merging.

On 12 September 2010 06:22, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) 
wrote:

>  I'm seeing what I believe is the same problem described in SNOW-745 in
> our current development viewer.
> Second Life 2.1.2 (209297)
>
> I added some detail to the issue description.
>
> It's very irritating.   I think we need to do something about it (might
> we be able to force Atmospheric Shaders to 'on'?  That appears to
> suppress the problem).
>
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] where is the source

[Yoz Grahame]

On 13 September 2010 16:48, Joshua Bell  wrote:

>
> The server side changes to deliver a static URL to an LLSD resource from
> login are minimal; if someone wants to take a stab at the client side
> changes and defining a forward-looking LLSD format, I'm sure you'll find a
> server-side champion.
>

Hello!
(Ghengis and I recently made a long-overdue login.cgi fix that makes this
kind of change only require login.xml changes, though we still need to merge
it.)

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Yoz Grahame]

On 16 September 2010 13:04, Ann Otoole  wrote:

> What is this "Product Engine" I see references to (made apparently by team
> shining) in the Scrum summaries?
>

They're an external contract team doing engineering and QA work for us.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Possibility to revert UI changes on snowstorm?

[Yoz Grahame]

On 20 September 2010 16:28, malachi  wrote:

> Is it possible to revert the 2.x UI changes? I mean is it possible to keep
> the functionality of 2.x yet use the visual style of 1.x?
>

If you're asking about doing this in your own viewer project based on 2.x,
go for it. There are plenty of people who say they want it, and you'd
probably get some help. There should be no technical blockers.

If you're asking about reverting the design of individual UI elements to the
1.x design in the official Linden Lab viewer, then - as we've discussed
several times on this list - we're open to considering and implementing
well-argued proposals. We've already done this kind of reversion for several
UI elements and there will likely be others. However, we ask that UI change
proposals take the time to explore whether there is a third design option
better than either existing one.

If you're asking about reverting the entire viewer UI to 1.x: in short, no.
In less short, we'd need an objective, well-reasoned argument against each
and every one of the several hundred UI changes between 1.x and 2.x. See
above.

We know that the current Viewer 2 UI is not popular amongst a large
percentage of residents. It'd be hard to miss that. That's why we're working
on fixing it. When people are asked to explain why they don't like it, they
focus on a small but high-profile set of these changes, such as the sidebar,
and those are the changes we're already planning to work on (if not working
already). If you have ideas for how those specific changes should work, we
welcome them. If there are other areas you want to fix or revert, and have a
good objective argument for them, we welcome those too.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Openjpeg/KDU the cold hard metrics

[Yoz Grahame]

On 21 September 2010 20:01, Sheet Spotter  wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone have a sense of how actively the OpenJPEG source code is
> maintained?
>

Looking at
http://code.google.com/p/openjpeg/updates/list
(which has had a number of VS-related changes in the past month - see also
http://groups.google.com/group/openjpeg/browse_thread/thread/cbb01b2c14b43415)
and
http://groups.google.com/group/openjpeg
... I'd call it very active.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Question about 2.2 beta

[Yoz Grahame]

On 26 September 2010 15:31, Boroondas Gupte wrote:

>
> Maybe the release changelog should have links to mentioned issues?
>

This one does:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Viewer/2.2.0

There's a page like that for every beta and final release.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[Yoz Grahame]

On 27 September 2010 23:22, Brandon Husbands  wrote:

>
> I think the major issue boils down to the feature is a major thing for sim
> owners. I think the disconnection between the populace and LL is apparent in
> this request as the residents see it as a critical feature and ll sees it in
> a different view. But this list is not one to argue philosophy nor
> semantics.
>

This thread is all of 17 hours old. It's premature to say that somehow we're
already going against the wishes of our resident base when we haven't even
had time to explore the many options here, let alone prioritise them.


> The code in question on the approach to how its done is not a bad one IMHO.
> Yes server side could probably implement it better but none of the non LL on
> this list have access to such things and must make do with what we are
> given. From continued use its not apparent to be laggy actually but I could
> be mistaken.
>

In which case, we should consider that before we rush to an implementation
which may end up worsening the problem that land owners need fixed.

It's in everyone's interest to provide something like this. Reducing lag is
a key part of the "Fast, Easy, Fun" initiative. Giving land owners better
tools to deal with sim load is a great way to divide-and-conquer on the many
causes of lag, not to mention making our highest-paying customers happier.
But if it's worth doing then it's worth doing right, and the Land team needs
time to design and prioritise it properly.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Overview of JPEG 2000 codec

[Yoz Grahame]

On 30 September 2010 22:05, Patrick N.  wrote:

>   How about this, it should greatly accelerate graphic loading in the
> virtual worlds.
>
> http://code.google.com/intl/en/speed/webp/
>

We were discussing that in the office today. It's got promise (for us,
anyway - I'd be surprised if it got much traction on the web any time soon)
but needs the alpha channel work completed at the very least. Progressive
rendering would be nice but it's not vital - we can provide the benefits in
other ways. Having another channel we can use for bump maps would also be
very helpful.

Another format referenced in the discussion is JPEG-XR (originally released
as "HD Photo" by Microsoft, now an ISO standard), which has all of the above
features. It might be worth doing a comparison, bearing in mind that
compression/quality ratio is not the only thing we care about.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Overview of JPEG 2000 codec

[Yoz Grahame]

On 1 October 2010 01:54, Lance Corrimal  wrote:

>
> or in other words, minimizing traffic through higher compression of
> textures
> could be a nice thing.
>

Absolutely, and it's a major factor, it's just not the only one. All the
recent discussion about OpenJPEG vs KDU is because of decode performance,
which is also vital. Plus, the other features I mentioned earlier.

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] O.O Display name code DROP!

[Yoz Grahame]

On 15 October 2010 15:44, Dave Booth  wrote:

>  On 10/15/2010 17:38, Marc Adored wrote:
>
> 
>
> Bollocks.
>

Thanks for providing a succinct example of what really isn't OK around here.

Disagreement: Fine.
Passionate argument: Fine, as long as it's civil and reasoned.
Confrontational rudeness with no redeeming value: Out Of Order.

If it's possible to provide actual reasoned argument in a civil tone, we
would welcome it.
If not, we would welcome (and assist) your departure.

-- Yoz Linden
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Is the viewer going to start using the Jive SBS system for profiles and such?

[Yoz Grahame]

No.

On 7 November 2010 13:13, SuezanneC Baskerville  wrote:

>
>
> --
> v i r t u a l   w o r l d   e n t h u s i a s t
> -- http://www.google.com/profiles/s u e z a n n e --
>
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges

Re: [opensource-dev] Request for feedback - Preferences Cleanup

[Yoz Grahame]

... or Esbee's original suggestion, "Block", which is easily the most common
term for this across social software UIs. I just checked as many IM apps as
I could find: Skype, AIM, iChat, ICQ, MSN, Adium and Twitter all use
"Block", Y!M seems to alternate between "Block" and "Ignore".

On 8 November 2010 12:02, Andromeda Quonset wrote:

>  I hadn't thought of "mute"  that way.  Perhaps "ignore" would be better.
> Or NULL.
>
>
> At 11:22 AM 11/8/2010, you wrote:
>
> That mute button sometimes does the opposite of what "mute" means in SL.
> On the telephones in my house and on my Android, mute turns off the
> *microphone*, not the incoming sound.  (Ditto for some other apps I've seen,
> such as GoToMeeting.  "Hold" is the closest analogue, which turns off both
> directions.)  I'm guessing this is probably the source of some of the
> confusion.
>
> Celi
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Andromeda Quonset 
> wrote:
>  FWIW,
>
> I would also like to see the return to "Mute" instead of "Block".  With all
> due respect to your user testing, the telephone on my desk has a "Mute"
> button, not a "Block" button, and I consider it a very heavily used
> communications tool.  Perhaps there should be an option in preferences for
> setting the label for this function to either "Mute" or "Block",  as that
> would keep all of your users happy.
>
> Thank you
>
>
> At 09:10 AM 11/5/2010, Sarah (Esbee) Kuehnle wrote:
>
> Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm working on some updates to the pdf
> right now and will send that out for further review later today!
>
> I can't promise all the suggested additions will go into the prefs, but
> I'll definitely look at each one as I'm making updates.
>
> A few responses to those who's provided feedback so far:
>
> @Marine - 1) The text chat logs have been fixed in 2.3 beta. 2) We changed
> the label from "Mute" to "Block" early on in V2 because our user testing
> indicated new users were confused about what "Mute" means and understood
> "Block" because it's used commonly in other communication tools.
>
> @GeneJ - That for the reminder on that typo. It was pointed out in my OH
> the other week and I needed a good kick to remember to fix it! :)
>
> @Wolfpup - We're just talking about skinning for now. In the meantime, I'm
> just gathering color options in one place. But you're right - future
> skinning preferences will likely require a restart before changes would take
> effect.
>
> @Erin - I've taken note of your request for the numerical debug settings
> for sculpties. I'm not sure they make sense in this preference cleanup I'm
> doing now, but will be useful when I can focus my team on a sprint focused
> on content creation as some point in the near future. As far as local lights
> go, they've actually been added back in on the Mesh Project Viewer 
> (SH-157)
> (which will eventually be added into the main Second Life Viewer). I'll take
> a look at the other tickets you referenced today.
>
> @Hitomi - Thanks for the additional settings. I'll review these this
> morning and see what makes sense to incorporate. That's a great list!
>
> More updates from me soon!
>
> --Esbee
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:50 PM, WolfPup Lowenhar  
> wrote: I
> keep seeing people talking about user readable chat logs and from what I’m
> seeing in the current dev builds the logs are already back to plain text.
> I’m currently working on a feature that is dealing with chat and
> group/personal IM logs.
>
> From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com [
> 
> mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com]
> On Behalf Of Hitomi Tiponi Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 4:37 PM To:
> Opensource_dev
> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Request for feedback - Preferences Cleanup
>
> Thanks for the Preferences mock-up (must say that I rather like the anime
> look of them :)) - some really sensible stuff there.
> Suggestions (all currently in Debug Settings): Chat - adjustable life and
> fade times for Startup, IM and Group popups - I find they are too short for
> me to spot sometimes Chat - Add in spinners to alter the number of times
> that IM tabs flash and the rate at which they flash at Advanced - Move 'UI
> Size' slider to Graphics as KL and myself have done - it fits more naturally
> there Graphics->Hardware - allow forcing on of Antialiasing (as the Viewer
> GPU presets often gets this wrong) or better still fix the presets :) Move
> & View - put in spinners for amount of head movement Move & View -
> Checkbox to allow double-click point-move in-world as an alternative to
> double-click teleport (which is welcome) Move & View - Checkbox for
> 'Number keys move avatar' Privacy - Check-box to select option to also
> create user-readable chat logs (as others have suggested) <- this is what
> I’m referring to. Advanced - Checkbox for 'Show Grid Selection at login' 
> Advanced
> - Checkbox for 'Disable Camera Constraints' Advanced - Checkbox for 'Limit
> the distan

Re: [opensource-dev] Touch Broken, Stuttering Issues

[Yoz Grahame]

On 10 November 2010 13:10, Trilo Byte  wrote:

> On Nov 10, 2010, at 7:33 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
>
> > On 2010-11-10 6:13, Trilo Byte wrote:
> >> I was busy checking out some other items/banging on different parts of
> the viewer, and didn't realize until just now that "Touch" appears to not be
> working properly in the latest builds.  Clicking left/right on a panel
> vendor seems to work, but touching a notecard giver, landmark giver, dance
> ball, and vendors for purchase appears to be broken in the Mac client (I
> checked multiple regions/builds/shops).  Build 214319 appears to work.
> >
> > It looks like this was probably a problem with a change that was made
> > yesterday.
> >
> > I've filed https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23782 to track the
> fix.
>
> Is this an internal-only issue?  I'm getting a permissions violation when I
> attempt to bring it up.


Ah, looks like this one was moved internally rather than cloned & moved.
Fortunately, it's been fixed already:
http://hg.secondlife.com/viewer-development/changeset/00572a272c9e

-- Yoz
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges