[opensource-dev] Question regarding llSetLinkPimitiveParamsFast() function in 1.38.0

[Obsidian Kindragon]

Hi all,

I've a quick question regarding the new llSetLinkPimitiveParamsFast() 
function in 1.38.0. Why did LL opt for a new function instead of just 
removing the delay from the current llSetLinkPrimitiveParams() function? 
I can't conceive any case where removing the delay from the current 
function would break any existing content.

- Obsidian Kindragon (AKA Obsidian Stormwind)
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Re: [opensource-dev] Userstory

[Obsidian Kindragon]

 Having a better way to identify in a profile whether it is age 
verified or not is a good idea, but I don't think the "default" and 
"automatic" actions requested should be in a viewer. Not all unverified 
users are kids, and treating them automatically as minors and muting or 
blocking them is not something I would want in a viewer. Identification 
tends to work the opposite of what you assume: one tends to use ID to 
prove you are not a minor, not to prove you are a minor.


The ability to ban based on age verified status is already available: 
set your land to allow access to Age Verified accounts only. You won't 
need eject if you don't allow such users on the land in the first place.


As for setting the ability to automatically ban based on verified status 
as the default, that's not what I want as a user. Users may get land 
before they are verified and get automatically banned from their own 
parcel, or find their friends not able to access the land and need 
additional assistance to see why their land is automatically set to ban 
unverified users. I feel that banning settings should always be chosen 
by the user and the default to not be blocking people from the land, 
except in the case of Adult regions where it is assumed that only age 
verified or payment on file status is allowed.


Having some Linden Homes available in Adult regions is an idea, and I 
think Linden Lab may wish to look into that market of users.


- Obsidian Stormwind (AKA Obsidian Kindragon)

On 9/19/2010 2:35 PM, Erin Mallory wrote:
As a User, , I want to be able to easily identify kids, and better 
land and viewer controls to automatically mute (both text and voice), 
eject, ban, and send home anyone not age and id verified by DEFAULT.  
(I'd also like to be able to have my Linden homes be on adult parcels 
as well!)



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Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[Obsidian Kindragon]

  On 9/29/2010 7:34 AM, Opensource Obscure wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 22:55:57 -0700, Kelly Linden
> wrote:
>> There are multiple issues at play here:
>> What I understand is that the viewer is flogging our servers to brute force
>> build the data being requested
> And doesn't this violate the TPV policy, 1.a ?
>
> Opensource Obscure
>
I think because it's not an intentional "attack" on LL's servers they're 
willing to let it slide for the time being until a better method on the 
server side can be developed.

Personally, I think something better than script "count" should be used 
to determine whether you let an avatar wear it. Script "time" (total for 
an av is available to Estate Managers), script "memory" (parsed per 
attachment is available to individuals), and certain functions (certain 
functions may put a larger strain on the region than others) are all 
more important to know about than simply how many scripts are in the 
attachments, in my opinion.

- Obsidian Stormwind
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Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[Obsidian Kindragon]

 The problem with using script count, is that one script can be as 
laggy as 10 or even 100 scripts. It may be more likely that 100 scripts 
in an object is laggier, but one script could potentially be as laggy or 
more so.


I think this would be my user story:

As a user and a region owner / estate manager I would like the ability 
throttle residents' scripted attachments and unattached scripted objects 
when they are within my region. Currently we only have the ability to 
turn off scripts, but throttle scripted objects so as to limit the 
amount of "time" a scripted object can act within a given cycle.


One potential issue I see to being allowed to set a script limit to 
unattached objects is that some designers may then try to build multiple 
objects that communicate together in order to try and work around the 
region's set script limits.


- Obsidian Stormwind

On 9/29/2010 6:27 PM, miss c wrote:
We all know about the amount of lag on avatars, some are from resizing 
scripts some are from excessive calls, sensors, some are from chat 
listeners that have to filter out ever single bit of chat in a 
region.  Most avatars do not even realize they have purchased 
something causing issues.


I think "scanning" an avatar before it goes to a teleport destination 
to see if that amount of script usage is allowed on that region isn't 
fixing a problem, and leaves someone that doesnt know any better at a 
loss.  I also believe that limiting the amount of scripts in one 
object is a little more doable, but some functions are at idle in 
scripts.


I think the best method that goes with Linden Labs philosophy of be 
and do what you want to do, would just be to give better monitoring 
tools to Estate owners, they pay those server bills they should have 
some better tools.  Whether its a script count, usage, calls to the 
server, or just be able to open up a server window to see what is 
going WITH a must have uuid and location its coming from.  I would be 
happy with a debug server window that does this.  This isn't an 
unreasonable request to give me more tools, I am not hard to please, 
what is unreasonable is that I pay out the wazoo and anyone can come 
crash my region if they wanted to.  They can lag it up galore just for 
giggles and I cant do anything about it, they can do this daily , 
everyday several times a day, and I have to be the victim of it.


As I said before, most don't even know they are doing this because 
it's in an item they purchased, so this is where the ***SCRIPT 
COUNTER*** comes in handy.  We make the announcement for everyone to 
script count yourself and your neighbors , everyone does using the 
forks off of Emerald, and the region gets better.  It isn't the 
solution for everything, but it helps when excessive scripts is the 
cause.  I am not going to give you a full on user story because I feel 
like that gives you reason to place this in a faraway request.  This 
works now in other viewers, it can work in yours too :-)




*From:* Joshua Bell 
*To:* miss c 
*Cc:* opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
*Sent:* Wed, September 29, 2010 6:45:50 PM
*Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script 
count feature request


Taking a stab at a user story:

As a land owner, I want to ensure that sim performance is not 
negatively impacted by particular avatars with lots of scripts, so 
that all users of the sim have a good experience.


That abstracts away the mechanism... which suggests to me that 
approaches like dynamic per-avatar caps on script cycles might be a 
better approach to pursue than specific functions that enable 
monitoring. But I'm probably over-abstracting the desire and it would 
encode the policy in the sim, rather than letting land owners 
self-manage. Can we craft a better user story to capture the true need?


On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 4:09 PM, miss c > wrote:


Let me reword that last part.  I should be able to locate a person
using excessive amounts of resources on my sim.  I also should be
able to stop random people on alts setting out to grief secretly
with the overuse of scripts.


*From:* miss c mailto:miss_c...@yahoo.com>>
*To:* Zi Ree mailto:tinacl...@gmx.de>>;
opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com

*Sent:* Wed, September 29, 2010 5:45:25 PM

*Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script
count feature request

This is a tough one because it does leave a lot of guess work, but
still could be added to my list of tools I use to guess with.  I
will totally take it if it's being offered, I just pray this inst
the foundation the future tools will be built off of.  And about
the whole banning, my regions private, just open to the public, if
I want to ban 

Re: [opensource-dev] CAN WE PLEASE STOP VIEWER DEVELOPMENT FOR 5 MINUTES

[Obsidian Kindragon]

  On 10/3/2010 8:38 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
>On 2010-10-03 10:27, malachi wrote:
>> could we please take 5 minutes away from the client that we all obviously
>> have our second thoughts about to begin with. and focus on grid
>> infrastructure.
>>
>> i honestly dont care if i am forced to use the dreaded 2.x client. if the
>> grid actually responded to something you did. things like just loading my
>> clothing. or if i save a script it should still exist after i close the
>> edit box. but the fact that any script added to a prim inworld gets eaten
>> and destroyed server side is a huge issue. could LL drop the client work
>> for 5 minutes and see what is going on on the server? or is that too much
>> to ask? because as it seems over the last few weeks its been new client
>> code new client code new client code while the server just gradually falls
>> off a cliff. what good is a client that runs like fiber when the server it
>> connects to only speaks in dialup?
> The subject of this list is the open source, which does not include the
> server side.  Discussions of interactions with the server are of course
> in scope.
>
> There is little conflict in the people involved with server side and
> viewer side development, so stopping viewer development would do little
> to change server problem resolution even if that is where the problem is.
>
> It sounds as though you are experiencing some serious problems, but the
> descriptions above are not nearly complete enough for anyone to
> determine what the real problems are, much less determine who could best
> solve them.
>
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I agree with OZ here. The issue could be client side or server side, but 
as Oz stated we don't have enough information.

I think Malachi needs to describe the steps he's using to reproduce the 
issue (even if it's not consistently occurring) for each of the problems 
he's seeing so people can reproduce and add it to an existing JIRA or 
open a new one if one doesn't already exist for the specific problem.

- Obsidian Stormwind
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