[opensource-dev] Support for external editors in viewer2 beta?

[Moriz Gupte]

Hello,
I tried to find some documentation on 'support for external editors SL
viewer beta' but could not find any.
How do you use this feature? Any ideas?
Thanks
Ramesh
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm 2.6.1 with Advanced and Basic mode

[Moriz Gupte]

This is a great move, we've been looking forward to this for years. Am
thinking hot swap between modes without a restart could be a plus, a
separate smaller basic client could also be desirable ...I think.
one thing though, when I launched 2.6.1 in the basic mode, clicking on
myavatar just produces a frame which does not contain anything ... is this
normal? How can I populate it with options ...
R
On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Yoz Grahame  wrote:

>
> On 16 March 2011 17:45, Patnad Babii  wrote:
>
>>   A viewer like this is good, but seriously should be part of the SAME
>> viewer as the other use. Simply have it with a button to switch between the
>> Easy, Fast and Fun mode or Advanced mode. The viewer is already like 30 meg
>> to download so, 10 megs more should’nt be a big challenge for most of the
>> users.
>>
>
> Good news! It *is* part of the same viewer! (At least, that's the plan.)
> You can switch between Basic and Advanced mode on the login screen.
> Switching currently requires a viewer restart; we're looking into ways to
> make that easier, though that may not be achievable for the 2.6 release.
>
>
>> With that said, its is nice to see an improvement on the UI for new users,
>> but that viewer is VERY limited, with no inventory, no notecard and no
>> landmark, its so limited, user will only be able to visit your spotlight
>> places. There is not even group in that viewer.
>>
>
> Yep - we're deliberately keeping it very simple so that newcomers aren't
> overwhelmed with controls, and have less to learn before being rewarded with
> a positive initial experience. The emphases are on basic movement, chatting,
> making friends and seeing the sights. Once they're comfortable and willing
> to explore further or get more involved, switching to Advanced mode only
> requires a restart.
>
> -- Yoz
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm 2.6.1 with Advanced and Basic mode

[Moriz Gupte]

Wondering if the ability to create a user's own spotlights is desirable?
That would add an extra control point to the UI which we do not want ... may
be. I think we will find that some UI features in the basic mode will
migrate to the advanced mode as they are found to be useful not only for
newcomers but also for advanced users. Let the migration dance between the
advanced and basic modes begin.

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Daniel  wrote:

> Does the "Advanced" menu in the "Advanced" mode get renamed to "Expert"
> or something to avoid confusion?
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[opensource-dev] llGetGeometricCenter

[Moriz Gupte]

Hello there,
I have a question that I am putting here out of desperation because nobody
seem to know, even the very best experienced folks I could tap into.
What exactly does llGetGeometricCenter do?
'http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetGeometricCenter'
The entry on the wiki is depressing as this sentence does not mean much to
me
'This is currently (as of 2 December 2010) different from "center" in
viewer's build tools and what
llRezObject considers
as "center" of linkset.'

Usually an entry is meant to help out ... here we have a statement saying
what some is NOT.

And btw, what does llRezObject consider as 'center' of linkset?
Is there any difference between llRezAtRoot and llRezObject? I cannot find
one during tests.
Thanks
Ramesh
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Re: [opensource-dev] Mesh viewers and tcmalloc issues

[Moriz Gupte]

Thank you Henri.
On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Henri Beauchamp  wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I noticed that all the viewers using tcmalloc (mesh viewers under Linux
> and Windows, since those use SSE2 and must gain memory-aligned malloc()
> and new() calls that their standard library does not provide) suffer
> from a serious problem: they never release memory back to the system,
> meaning that after visiting a crowded place and caming around a lot,
> the viewer can occupy 2.5Gb of memory, and even after you TP out to a
> skybox with almost no objects/textures and no avatar around, the viewer
> retains the full amount of alloctaed memory for itself.
>
> Worst, should you manage to keep the viewer from crashing during a full
> hour or so, its allocated memory will get so badly fragmented that it
> starts crawling down and finally crashes, even in quiet sims.
>
> Bao Linden recently worked on private memory pools to work around these
> issues, but so far and despite his hard work, the result is less than
> satisfactory: the memory is still never released to the system, and the
> viewers using private memory pools crash every few minutes after issuing
> a warning:
> "LLPluginProcessParent::poll: apr_pollset_poll failed with status 4
>
> Well, be happy since I found an easy work around for these problems
> while working on the Cool VL Viewer v1.26.1 (the mesh branch).
>
> tcmalloc is actually supposed to release back to the system the memory
> freed by the application using it, but it does so only after a certain
> number of memory blocks have been freed. There is an environment
> variable that you can set (TCMALLOC_RELEASE_RATE) to adjust the "rate"
> at which tcmalloc will release the freed blocks back to the system.
> In fact, this is not really a rate, but a divisor (the number of freed
> blocks is divided by the rate number (when != 0: a 0 rate means "never
> release memory"), and compared to a threshold. If the number is below
> the threshold, the freed blocks are released.
> The documentation for tcmalloc says that "Reasonable rates are in the
> range [0,10]", but even with a rate of 10, you never get the viewer to
> release more than a couple hundreds megabytes for 2+Gb of allocated
> memory. It occurred to me that the algorithm tcmalloc uses is simply
> crippled !
>
> The good news, is that if you pass an "unreasonnable" rate, tcmalloc
> will finally release memory (the more "unreasonnable" and the more
> memory is released). With a rate of 1 (yes, ten thousands), you
> get the viewer to release everything when it doesn't need it any more,
> which matches the behaviour of tcmalloc-less viewers.
>
> Since the Windows builds don't use a wrapper script to launch the
> viewer, it is however best to hardcode this new rate as the default
> one in tcmalloc istelf. This is what I did for the Cool VL Viewer
> and it works like a charm. There is only one line to change in
> tcmalloc source, in src/page_heap.cc:
> DEFINE_double(tcmalloc_release_rate,
>EnvToDouble("TCMALLOC_RELEASE_RATE", 1.0),<--- HERE
>"Rate at which we release unused memory to the system.  "
>"Zero means we never release memory back to the system.  "
>"Increase this flag to return memory faster; decrease it "
>"to return memory slower.  Reasonable rates are in the "
>"range [0,10]");
>
> Now, the viewer runs rock stable (just like the non-mesh, tcmalloc-less
> version) and uses very reasonnable amounts of memory. It also doesn't
> suffer from memory fragmentation any more since it is transparently
> taken care of by the OS (via the page table and the PMMU of the CPU,
> something neither tcmalloc nor Bao's private memory pool can do since
> these are userspace code).
>
> For what it is worth...
>
> Henri.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Mesh viewers and tcmalloc issues

[Moriz Gupte]

Am wondering if anyone from Linden Lab can comment on this thread. This is
such an important issue regarding mesh viewers and mesh based economy. Many
mesh builders are reverting products back to sculpty versions because the
majority of clients refuse to use the latest viewers that support mesh
because of the significant fps drops.

On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Twisted Laws wrote:

>  Only thing I don't understand about all this, is if you clone and build
> viewer-development and 3p-google-perftools, then LL_USE_TCMALLOC is
> undefined in both.
>
> in GooglePerfTools.cmake:
> set(TCMALLOC_FLAG -ULL_USE_TCMALLOC=1)
>  and in llcommon property pages
> Undefine Preprocessor Definitions: LL_USE_TCMALLOC=1
> So it would appear, at least by default, that tcmalloc is not enabled.   Am
> I understanding this wrong?  Or does LL build their viewer with it defined
> and sending the viewer out the opensource world with it disabled?
>
> I did follow Henri's msg and built a viewer with
> EnvToDouble("TCMALLOC_RELEASE_RATE", 1.0) (in 3p-google-perftools) and
> it seems to do exactly the same as without it.
>
> Twisted
>
> > Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 22:24:56 +0200
> > From: sl...@free.fr
> > To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> > Subject: [opensource-dev] Mesh viewers and tcmalloc issues
>
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > I noticed that all the viewers using tcmalloc (mesh viewers under Linux
> > and Windows, since those use SSE2 and must gain memory-aligned malloc()
> > and new() calls that their standard library does not provide) suffer
> > from a serious problem: they never release memory back to the system,
> > meaning that after visiting a crowded place and caming around a lot,
> > the viewer can occupy 2.5Gb of memory, and even after you TP out to a
> > skybox with almost no objects/textures and no avatar around, the viewer
> > retains the full amount of alloctaed memory for itself.
> >
> > Worst, should you manage to keep the viewer from crashing during a full
> > hour or so, its allocated memory will get so badly fragmented that it
> > starts crawling down and finally crashes, even in quiet sims.
> >
> > Bao Linden recently worked on private memory pools to work around these
> > issues, but so far and despite his hard work, the result is less than
> satisfactory: the memory is still never released to the system, and the
> > viewers using private memory pools crash every few minutes after issuing
> > a warning:
> > "LLPluginProcessParent::poll: apr_pollset_poll failed with status 4
> >
> > Well, be happy since I found an easy work around for these problems
> > while working on the Cool VL Viewer v1.26.1 (the mesh branch).
> >
> > tcmalloc is actually supposed to release back to the system the memory
> > freed by the application using it, but it does so only after a certain
> > number of memory blocks have been freed. There is an environment
> > variable that you can set (TCMALLOC_RELEASE_RATE) to adjust the "rate"
> > at which tcmalloc will release the freed blocks back to the system.
> > In fact, this is not really a rate, but a divisor (the number of freed
> > blocks is divided by the rate number (when != 0: a 0 rate means "never
> > release memory"), and compared to a threshold. If the number is below
> > the threshold, the freed blocks are released.
> > The documentation for tcmalloc says that "Reasonable rates are in the
> > range [0,10]", but even with a rate of 10, you never get the viewer to
> > release more than a couple hundreds megabytes for 2+Gb of allocated
> > memory. It occurred to me that the algorithm tcmalloc uses is simply
> > crippled !
> >
> > The good news, is that if you pass an "unreasonnable" rate, tcmalloc
> > will finally release memory (the more "unreasonnable" and the more
> > memory is released). With a rate of 1 (yes, ten thousands), you
> > get the viewer to release everything when it doesn't need it any more,
> > which matches the behaviour of tcmalloc-less viewers.
> >
> > Since the Windows builds don't use a wrapper script to launch the
> > viewer, it is however best to hardcode this new rate as the default
> > one in tcmalloc istelf. This is what I did for the Cool VL Viewer
> > and it works like a charm. There is only one line to change in
> > tcmalloc source, in src/page_heap.cc:
> > DEFINE_double(tcmalloc_release_rate,
> > EnvToDouble("TCMALLOC_RELEASE_RATE", 1.0), <--- HERE
> > "Rate at which we release unused memory to the system. "
> > "Zero means we never release memory back to the system. "
> > "Increase this flag to return memory faster; decrease it "
> > "to return memory slower. Reasonable rates are in the "
> > "range [0,10]");
> >
> > Now, the viewer runs rock stable (just like the non-mesh, tcmalloc-less
> > version) and uses very reasonnable amounts of memory. It also doesn't
> > suffer from memory fragmentation any more since it is transparently
> > taken care of by the OS (via the page table and the PMMU of the CPU,
> > something neither tcmalloc nor B

Re: [opensource-dev] Review Request: Allow scripts to be saved/loaded to/from files.

[Moriz Gupte]

found another glitch:
I'm developing scripts in eclipse with lslforge. When I "compile" a
script in eclipse and then load it using this patch, tabstops are
converted into IDunnoWhat (it shows as little squares in the script
editor).


This behavior is familiar to me as well. I use LSL Editor, the script
displays fine when read in the LSL Editor but within SL, I find that
the script file shows little squares. I imagine it must be an issue
related to incompatible fonts used, may be?


On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Kadah Coba  wrote:

>This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
> http://codereview.secondlife.com/r/516/
>
> On November 20th, 2011, 6:53 a.m., *Lance Corrimal* wrote:
>
> found another glitch:
> I'm developing scripts in eclipse with lslforge. When I "compile" a script in 
> eclipse and then load it using this patch, tabstops are converted into 
> IDunnoWhat (it shows as little squares in the script editor).
>
>  On November 20th, 2011, 10:29 a.m., *Ima Mechanique* wrote:
>
> I'm not familiar with lslforge, but I'll look into it. Are you sure they're 
> valid tabs? I ask because it handles tabs from LSL Editor without a problem.
>
>  On November 20th, 2011, 11:50 a.m., *Ima Mechanique* wrote:
>
> Looks like this is a bug I've introduced recently, as it is also affecting my 
> LSL Editor created files now. :-(
> Trying to track it down, as soon as I can work out how to go back to a 
> specific revision in Hg.
>
>  On November 20th, 2011, 1:48 p.m., *Ima Mechanique* wrote:
>
> Damn.  SL's text editing windows do not like tabs. When copy/pasting the tabs 
> are converted to spaces, but not when inserting text. I'll look at finding a 
> way around this.
>
>  I don't remember any in-viewer text input ever liking \t particulary. It 
> might be best, or at least easier or safer, to just convert them to spaces on 
> import.
>
>
> - Kadah
>
> On November 22nd, 2011, 5:17 p.m., Ima Mechanique wrote:
>   Review request for Viewer.
> By Ima Mechanique.
>
> *Updated Nov. 22, 2011, 5:17 p.m.*
> Description
>
> Changes to allow opened script window to save/load to/from files on the users 
> computer.
>
>   Testing
>
> Successfully opened and saved scripts from/to local files.
>
>   *Bugs: * 
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/storm-1708
> Diffs
>
>- doc/contributions.txt (a1319d553db9)
>- indra/llui/lltexteditor.h (a1319d553db9)
>- indra/llui/lltexteditor.cpp (a1319d553db9)
>- indra/newview/llfilepicker.h (a1319d553db9)
>- indra/newview/llfilepicker.cpp (a1319d553db9)
>- indra/newview/llfloaternamedesc.h (a1319d553db9)
>- indra/newview/llfloaternamedesc.cpp (a1319d553db9)
>- indra/newview/llpreviewscript.h (a1319d553db9)
>- indra/newview/llpreviewscript.cpp (a1319d553db9)
>- indra/newview/llviewerfloaterreg.cpp (a1319d553db9)
>- indra/newview/skins/default/xui/en/panel_script_ed.xml (a1319d553db9)
>
> View Diff 
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Review Request: Allow scripts to be saved/loaded to/from files.

[Moriz Gupte]

@Kadah, you are right. This is what is going to happen. I would not
knowingly let an 'annoyance' go out with a release. Not worth the
community backlash ...

I was only making the point cause the tab issue and the fact that most
external editors use \t for tabs, is likely going to lead to "I
uploaded a script and now I can't edit it properly in-viewer, thus the
uploader is broken".


On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Kadah Coba  wrote:

> I was only making the point cause the tab issue and the fact that most
> external editors use \t for tabs, is likely going to lead to "I uploaded a
> script and now I can't edit it properly in-viewer, thus the uploader is
> broken".




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Re: [opensource-dev] "Standard Human Mesh Avatar"???

[Moriz Gupte]

Hey there may be something here
http://blog.machinimatrix.org/avatar-workbench/

On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Robert Martin wrote:

> Does anybody have (and would like to share) a Normal Human Mesh Avatar??
>
> As part of playing with MakeHuman i would like to be able to use it to
> make Mesh Avatars but i need to sort out the right workflow.
>
> things that are currently NOT DOCUMENTED
> 1 what should be the maximum number of vertexes in the model for it to work
> 2 how do i go about rigging the avatar??
> 3 will the normal 1024X textures work or can they be bigger??
>
> Bu naq v unir gevrq gb Tbbtyr Vg fb WSTV vf abg na nafjre gur jvxv vf
> svpgvbany (be qbrf abg nafjre gur dhrfgvba) fb EGSZ vf nyfb n
> abanafjre (fvapr gur xnzn fhgen qbrf abg pbire guvf) {rot13}
>
> --
> Robert L Martin
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Re: [opensource-dev] "Standard Human Mesh Avatar"???

[Moriz Gupte]

Or to save some time, get the blender files from the link I provided
earlier ... and examine the mesh files in blender
R


On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Mike Chase <
mike.ch...@alternatemetaverse.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 2011-12-12 at 09:40 -0500, Robert Martin wrote:
> > On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Dahlia Trimble 
> wrote:
> > > The MakeHuman mesh is probably far too complex (vertex count) to allow
> > > reasonable real-time  performance for many users with less than the
> best
> > > graphics cards. There's probably other meshes available on other 3d
> content
> > > sites which are better designed for real-time animation.
> >
> > the trick with MakeHuman is it can be used to generate multiple meshes
> > it would be understood that it would need to be downsampled (to below
> > XK vertexes) before it could be used on the grid. The big question
> > would be What is the recommended Maximum Vertex count?? (define X
> > please)
> >
>
> You could always dump the avatar mesh from the viewer (in the develop
> menu I believe) and pull it into blender to get an idea of what your
> dealing with.
>
> Mike
>
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Real Time Animation with Kinect

[Moriz Gupte]

Thanks for sharing. Hopes Linden Lab looks at your work seriously. I am
quite impressed by the responsiveness suggested in your demo clip.

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Fumi.Iseki
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We are now developing SLKinect2(beta) that sends Animation Data to
> SecondLife/OpenSim
> Viewer on network in real-time.
> It is possible that synchronization of Animation on the network using
> Animation Relay Server
>
> If you interest it, please see http://youtu.be/KhqbGAWqvLI
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> >> Hi responders,
> >>
> >> Thank you for the attention.
> >>
> >> We released the system as open source.
> >> Please see our wiki, if you are interested.
> >> http://www.nsl.tuis.ac.jp/xoops/modules/xpwiki/?SLKinect
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
>
> --
> Fumikazu Iseki
> Tokyo Univ. of Info. Sci.
> mailto:is...@solar-system.tuis.ac.jp
> http://www.nsl.tuis.ac.jp/
>
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[opensource-dev] hover tooltips and camera control speed

[Moriz Gupte]

Hello,
Before going into the code to try to make changes myself wanted to find out
if
1. there is a debug setting in the dev viewer that allows the speed of the
camera control via keybard (I guess I could adjust keyboard repeat rate)...
but wondering
2. I see a lot tool tip debug settings but they seem to have no effect on
tool tip behavior when running under Windows 7 (of course, I set them and
then restarted ... no effect).
Thanks
Ramesh
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[opensource-dev] avatar NPCs

[Moriz Gupte]

Apologies in advance for my stupid question. Say I want to create a human
NPC, the way am understanding the new pathfinding functions is that the we
cannot create an NPC bot as easily as in opensim.
Are we supposed to create a mesh avatar and then animate the mesh (am not
sure this is even doable giving the current status of mesh)
then use the pathfinding functions to move that mesh ...?
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Re: [opensource-dev] Pathfinding alpha announced

[Moriz Gupte]

I totally agree with you Garmin,
it should have been named NPO ... I felt a little disappointed because I
was really expecting NPC, actually waiting for that ... I understand
pathfinding is part of the deal, but just had to adjust my lowered
expectations ...
R

On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 6:24 AM, Garmin Kawaguichi <
garmin.kawagui...@magalaxie.com> wrote:

> In the blog post we find the acronym NPC
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-player_character
>
> I'd prefer here NPO, non playable object 8); in the video I expected to see
> clones of Lorca Linden !!
>
> Is there going to be future developments?
>
> GCI
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jonathan Welch" 
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 6:23 PM
> Subject: [opensource-dev] Pathfinding alpha announced
>  In case you did not see the announcement yesterday here it is:
>
> http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Take-a-Sneak-Peek-at-the-Pathfinding-Experiments-Being-Conducted/ba-p/1386511
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[opensource-dev] 'Frame load interrupted by policy change' error for youtube video playback on a prim

[Moriz Gupte]

Hello,
I just bought a new laptop and found that I could no longer playback
video a prim. Everything works fine on my older laptops. I tried to
search the community forums and so on ... and found that some people
are experiencing similar issues which appear to be unresolved.
Tried turning off firewalls etc..., clearning cache, reinstalling
Flash player plugin and still no luck. I now also recall that a few of
my colleagues had similar issues but they too could  not fix the
problem, but they lost interest interest in Second Life so not a big
issue for them anyway.
Please help with pointers to solutions if you can.
R

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Re: [opensource-dev] 'Frame load interrupted by policy change' error for youtube video playback on a prim

[Moriz Gupte]

Hey there,
I appreciate your fast response. Yes, my relevant specs are: Windows Pro 64 bit,
I tried the official SL Viewer and the latest Firestorm,
tried running them as administrator (to bypass perms issues if any)
and also ran the clients in Windows XP Pack2 compatibility mode. Same
problem ... while the webpages display, the videos on webpages cannot
play back.
Ramesh

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Skye Menjou  wrote:
> What client are you on? SL default or another viewer like Firestorm?
> I recall some V1(ie Singularity) based viewers have issues or don't support
> it at all(even after the mesh merge), but I haven't used one in ages.
> http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_media
> http://www.damanicorp.com/products/mediaviewer_faq.php
> These might be able to help, sadly I can't find official SL Wiki page.
>
> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Moriz Gupte  wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> I just bought a new laptop and found that I could no longer playback
>> video a prim. Everything works fine on my older laptops. I tried to
>> search the community forums and so on ... and found that some people
>> are experiencing similar issues which appear to be unresolved.
>> Tried turning off firewalls etc..., clearning cache, reinstalling
>> Flash player plugin and still no luck. I now also recall that a few of
>> my colleagues had similar issues but they too could  not fix the
>> problem, but they lost interest interest in Second Life so not a big
>> issue for them anyway.
>> Please help with pointers to solutions if you can.
>> R
>>
>> --
>> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
>> ___
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>
>
>
>
> --
> Have a nice day,
> Skye Menjou
>
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] 'Frame load interrupted by policy change' error for youtube video playback on a prim

[Moriz Gupte]

Found a solution. It appears that the Flash Player that Adobe installs
is a 32 bit player ... that can run well in Chrome, IE etc... even if
they are on a 64 bit OS. But if you manually install the 64 bit
version I obtained here ...
http://download.cnet.com/Adobe-Flash-Player-11-Beta-64-bit/3000-2378_4-75454063.html
streaming work

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Moriz Gupte  wrote:
> Hey there,
> I appreciate your fast response. Yes, my relevant specs are: Windows Pro 64 
> bit,
> I tried the official SL Viewer and the latest Firestorm,
> tried running them as administrator (to bypass perms issues if any)
> and also ran the clients in Windows XP Pack2 compatibility mode. Same
> problem ... while the webpages display, the videos on webpages cannot
> play back.
> Ramesh
>
> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Skye Menjou  wrote:
>> What client are you on? SL default or another viewer like Firestorm?
>> I recall some V1(ie Singularity) based viewers have issues or don't support
>> it at all(even after the mesh merge), but I haven't used one in ages.
>> http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_media
>> http://www.damanicorp.com/products/mediaviewer_faq.php
>> These might be able to help, sadly I can't find official SL Wiki page.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Moriz Gupte  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I just bought a new laptop and found that I could no longer playback
>>> video a prim. Everything works fine on my older laptops. I tried to
>>> search the community forums and so on ... and found that some people
>>> are experiencing similar issues which appear to be unresolved.
>>> Tried turning off firewalls etc..., clearning cache, reinstalling
>>> Flash player plugin and still no luck. I now also recall that a few of
>>> my colleagues had similar issues but they too could  not fix the
>>> problem, but they lost interest interest in Second Life so not a big
>>> issue for them anyway.
>>> Please help with pointers to solutions if you can.
>>> R
>>>
>>> --
>>> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
>>> ___
>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
>>> privileges
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Have a nice day,
>> Skye Menjou
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>
>
> --
> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, Research Associate Professor, Idaho State
> University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-282-5333
> Blog, LinkedIn, Play2Train



-- 
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Re: [opensource-dev] ok this may sound dumb but what is the llphysicsextention package

[Moriz Gupte]

Fourthed !
But am 100% Oz will receive a message from the top regarding this! Bah ..
moving on. When fear drives things instead of true openness, opensource
efforts get hurt.

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Robert Martin  wrote:

> Could somebody hit the Jira with this so it can be hopefully properly
> handled by The Lindens???
>
> (in lue of the normal Voting as required by "my" Rules of Order [wolf
> grin])
>
>
> --
> Robert L Martin
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe as an mixed reality platform

[Moriz Gupte]

This is very neat. Still a bit bulky for immediate use but a great
foundation for future.
R

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 3:31 AM, Kantonen Tuomas wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I've been working on a project using Second Life as a platform to
> develop mixed reality teleconferencing/-collaboration system. A brief
> intro about the project can be found at
> http://www.vtt.fi/multimedia/projects/mrconference.html
> and a video demo of our work so far is at
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNB0_c-5TSk .
>
> The project, continuing also in 2010, is split into two parts:
> overlaying a video image with avatars and virtual objects (augmented
> reality; AR) and using hand and head gestures to control avatars and
> interact with virtual objects (augmented virtuality; AV).
>
> We have agreed to release our work as open source. However, lack of
> continuous "forward porting" would soon render the released code
> unusable. It would therefore be better to have some parts of our
> work incorporated into the Snowglobe sources.
>
> I've tried to keep all our modifications as small as possible. The
> project is separated to our own ACME (Augmented Collaboration in Mixed
> Environments) module, vanilla Snowglobe code and an interface between
> the two.
>
> I'd be ready to invest some time to implement a generic AR/AV support
> for Snowglobe if we could come up with a design that could be accepted
> by the Snowglobe developers. This would allow anyone to use Snowglobe
> as AR/AV research platform, with or without our software.
>
> --
> - Tuomas Kantonen, VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe 2.0^H^H^H1.3 way forward?

[Moriz Gupte]

just a simple thing, I guess, I now find transferring content to another
avatar in the friends list not so intuitive, involves extra steps and my
discoverability sense did not work in this case. Also something on the side
because this made me lose hours coding yesterday, changing the UI size
impacts visibility of LSL code. So spent some time trying to figure out why
brackets etc..from my LSL code was missing (actually they were there, but
not visible he he) anyway sorry for not posting on the jira apologize
for laziness and lack of time.

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Soft Linden  wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Matt White  wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Argent Stonecutter
> >  wrote:
> >
> >> * chat bar focus
> >> * chat bar size
> >> * simple chat overlay (single background element, no badges, etc)
> >> * Location *on title bar* so you can get rid of the browser-style bars
> >> * IMs in a window. REALY in a window.
> >> * chat bar on chat floater
> >> * No sidebar
> >>
> >> What have I missed?
> >
> > Bring back the old profile window. When I have a few "interesting"
> > people in the sim I'll open up their profile and leave it minimized.
> > If/when I need to start filing ARs / estate banning / etc, the correct
> > spelling of their name is a simple copy/paste away.
>
> Ha - I'm not the only one who does this? I'm forever leaving profiles
> open and minimized when checking out places in resis' picks. Half the
> time I find an interesting object during a visit, want to check out
> the creator's picks, and end up adding another window or two before
> I've exhausted the picks in the first.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe 2.0^H^H^H1.3 way forward?

[Moriz Gupte]

' I'm not quite sure why there's been such a focus on united
RL and SL identities...' could if be that business applications require real
names as identities? I agree people should have the choice to call
themselves whatever they choose. And the interface should not be cluttered
with both pseudonyms and real names. An either or situation is better.
That way business application users are happy and role playing users are
happy. Simple.
R

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Matt White  wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Soft Linden  wrote:
>
> > Ha - I'm not the only one who does this? I'm forever leaving profiles
> > open and minimized when checking out places in resis' picks. Half the
> > time I find an interesting object during a visit, want to check out
> > the creator's picks, and end up adding another window or two before
> > I've exhausted the picks in the first.
>
> Oh heck no. I've been doing that for years. Same days I'll have a
> bunch of minimized profiles along the bottom of my screen to keep
> track of where I am and what's going on.
>
> The little button to bring up a resident's partner was a great
> addition too - if someone is a create creator, there's a good chance
> their partner is too.
>
>
> While we're discussing the profile window - as someone that roleplays
> extensively in SL, having my real life window right next to my SL
> profile is a total buzzkill. I *WANT* my SL and RL life to be
> separate. I'm not quite sure why there's been such a focus on united
> RL and SL identities... it's so backwards from the sprit of SL. Even
> most of the employees of Linden Lab are known by pseudonyms!
>
> --
> Matt White
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Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break

[Moriz Gupte]

Thank God for those who have the luxury of a steady paycheck and the ability
to pontificate.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Moving Content to Non-Prim worlds

[Moriz Gupte]

'> - only allow registered developers to upload content and cash out
> - require renting a shop to sell items
> - do not have user-to-user item transfer'
Am sure some business people at LL (without the experience of delivering
virtual goods for specific audiences) might find the above attractive, but
this will severely squash the diversity and increase the price of content on
the SL platform. Usually such a frameworks arise  not by choice but because
of the lack of advanced inworld building tools or other high barriers for
content creation. And for somebody who is involved in content creation
purely driven by clients who want to see every step of the creation process,
so that they can in the end get what they really want..the above will just
not allow such tightly coupled non-builder(user)/ builder design iteration
loops to happen.

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Argent Stonecutter  wrote:

> On 2010-03-16, at 12:13, Daniel wrote:
> > - using encrypted 7zip archives to deliver content to end users
>
> This will end up having little effect, since the textures and geometry
> can be pulled from the graphics card.
>
> > - only allow registered developers to upload content and cash out
> > - require renting a shop to sell items
> > - do not have user-to-user item transfer
>
> This are more likely to be effective, but if SL had restrictions like
> this in place it would be a very different (and far less rich and
> vibrant and _profitable_) environment.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Moving Content to Non-Prim worlds

[Moriz Gupte]

also,
funny how
> - do not have user-to-user item transfer'

gets turned into a business decision or even a requirement. :) why does
Bluemars not say, we havent implemented this functionality... and if they
don't have this, I wonder where they would stand on the 'hypergrid'
functionality that I believe will be a requirement for future worlds...

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Moriz Gupte  wrote:

> '> - only allow registered developers to upload content and cash out
>
> > - require renting a shop to sell items
> > - do not have user-to-user item transfer'
> Am sure some business people at LL (without the experience of delivering
> virtual goods for specific audiences) might find the above attractive, but
> this will severely squash the diversity and increase the price of content on
> the SL platform. Usually such a frameworks arise  not by choice but because
> of the lack of advanced inworld building tools or other high barriers for
> content creation. And for somebody who is involved in content creation
> purely driven by clients who want to see every step of the creation process,
> so that they can in the end get what they really want..the above will just
> not allow such tightly coupled non-builder(user)/ builder design iteration
> loops to happen.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Argent Stonecutter <
> secret.arg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2010-03-16, at 12:13, Daniel wrote:
>> > - using encrypted 7zip archives to deliver content to end users
>>
>> This will end up having little effect, since the textures and geometry
>> can be pulled from the graphics card.
>>
>> > - only allow registered developers to upload content and cash out
>> > - require renting a shop to sell items
>> > - do not have user-to-user item transfer
>>
>> This are more likely to be effective, but if SL had restrictions like
>> this in place it would be a very different (and far less rich and
>> vibrant and _profitable_) environment.
>> ___
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD Research Assistant Professor Idaho State
> University, PocatelloTel: 208-282-5333
> More info at http://tr.im/RRamloll
>
>


-- 
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Re: [opensource-dev] TPV - Nope

[Moriz Gupte]

Thanks Nicholaz for your hardwork. I used your viewer a lot to bypass issues
I had then with the standard viewer. I think Linden Lab was s lucky to
have had such a vibrant community in place. From my point of view, I see a
slow erosion of veteran well known content creators and client developers. I
think LL probably has a better view of things...may be there see things that
we can't. The media is still interested in LL as an article to be published
in the Wallstreet journal (in a couple of weeks or so) soon will prove. But
I have concerns about the future. LL will survive not because of excellence
but because of poor and fragmented competition. Btw I went into lurking mode
because it was clear to me that only folks that submit patches were
encouraged to speak. Many like myself have enough background to contribute
patches...but I chose to focus on content creation (and my contribution so
far has only been through virtual learning environment design). So back to
lurking.
R

On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Marine Kelley wrote:

> This is a sad day. I remember the times when you were indeed the most
> prolific contributor, when your own third-party viewer was the toast of SL,
> and the SL viewer has benefited greatly from your work. I think everyone can
> thank you for that (and everyone has !).
>
> And I'd like to thank you for helping me get started on my project back in
> the days.
>
> Best of luck for whatever next project you will work on,
> Marine
>
>
>
> On 3 April 2010 15:51, Nicholaz Beresford  wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi All!
>>
>> Since the TPV and new TOS seems to be in effect now, I'd like to finally
>> comment on it too.
>>
>> For those of you who don't know me, I'm the person who started the first
>> thrird party viewer (in fact I made the original Wiki page
>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Alternate_viewers&redirect=no
>> )
>> and as it appears I'm still the person with the most accepted patches to
>> the viewer (except maybe SnowGlobe commits, I'm not sure if or how they
>> are counted) and the winner of the year 2007 Linden OpenSource Award.
>>
>> I have not made viewers in quite some time and have basically resigned
>> over gripes about how the Lindens handle open source and the OS
>> community in general, so I'm not sure if my words still have any weight
>> (not that any resident's words have any weight with the Lindens, except
>> Stroker Serpentine's maybe, when they are voiced through a lawyer or
>> court).  So just take my words as coming from the elder statesman
>> armchair.
>>
>> However, I still had my account and a couple of alts, but this new
>> TOS/TPV, now that's it's out of the box about to be in effect soon, puts
>> the final nail into the coffin.
>>
>> I'm not going to try to dissect what's written there or what the
>> practical legal impact is.  Living in Germany with strong customer
>> protection laws, legal impact in fact is most likely zilch, but what the
>> TOS and the TPV does, is to show the Linden's view of their relationship
>> beween themselves and their residents and OS developers.
>>
>> While it's not a secret that I have been less than thrilled by their
>> views and actions in the past, I find the TPV taking it to a new level.
>>
>> It is their servers, their assets, their business.  But trying to use
>> their power in a way like this, dictating the terms, making far reaching
>> demands and lightly brushing off concerns is unacceptable.
>>
>> Of course a viewer maker needs comply with the law, no TOS is needed for
>> that.  But making demands like the branding (as if the word "Life" was
>> their invention) or demanding disclosure like section 8d which goes far
>> beyond any legal obligations is just way over the top for me.
>>
>> I took their sources based on GPL once and at that time alternate
>> viewers seemed to be welcome and later I even jumped through a few hoops
>> to meet their new whims (e.g. complying with their trademark policies).
>>  In the recent past, I have still used SL on occasion as a regular user
>> and now, trying to use SL as a user, I'm finding myself being presented
>> with new demands because my past viewers are still out there for download.
>>
>> Am I going to agree to that?  No frigging way.  I certainly do not want
>> to have any relationship with a company who is trying to use their
>> position of power in a way like that, no matter if it's legally valid or
>> not.  The new TOS/TPV defines who LL thinks they are and who they think
>> their users are and what kinds of demands and claims LL thinks they can
>> make or what they think is acceptable and fair.
>>
>> I can only recommend to every viewer maker and contributor to have a
>> look at this broader picture and evaluate if their contributions in time
>> and efforts are worthwhile.   Mine where fun when LL was a different
>> company, but there I no way I would have made contributions under the
>> current terms.  In fact I won't even log in again under the new terms
>> and hav

Re: [opensource-dev] Soft body physics

[Moriz Gupte]

I feel you are right. Makes more sense to have it implemented client side
for many soft body dynamic behaviors... eg cloth, hair etc...
but I think in areas where rigid body behaviors impact local soft body
dynamics, there will be lots of timing and synch problems to deal with.
So there's where I think that perhaps all physics need to be done at the
same site.
R

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Glen Canaday  wrote:

>
>
> Soft body physics are best implemented in a local viewer, leaving the
> rigid-body collision detection to the server, am I right in this?
>
> --GC
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Re: [opensource-dev] Brown-bag meeting to continue dialog on TVPV

[Moriz Gupte]

 i do

On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Robert Martin  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Argent Stonecutter
>  wrote:
> > Holding the meeting in voice already excludes people. The last time I
> > tried to enable voice for a meeting with a Linden I couldn't actually
> > get it to work. The dot came up, and my computer was receiving data
> > because his dot was showing activity, but I couldn't hear anything.
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>
> this may sound a bit crazy but how many stakeholders have Google Wave
> accounts??
>
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'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD Research Assistant Professor Idaho State
University, PocatelloTel: 208-282-5333
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Re: [opensource-dev] Questions about SOCKS5 support in SnowGlobe

[Moriz Gupte]

Thanks Robin, you are a very kind soul. Socksifying SL Voice is much needed
for behind the firewall access.
R
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Robin Cornelius
wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Neil Canham 
> wrote:
> > I hope that this is the right place to ask - I'm very interested in
> trying
> > the SOCKS5 support in SnowGlobe to connect to both SL and also my own
> > OpenSim instances from inside corporate firewalls, and to allow
> prospective
> > clients to do the same. I have two questions:
> > Does SLVoice traffic get 'socksified'?
> > If the organisation doesn't have a Socks server, can I run a Socks server
> > such as antinat outside the firewall (eg - on the OpenSim server box
> itself)
> > and tell SnowGlobe to route traffic through an acceptable firewall
> opening
> > port such as 80 or 443?
>
> Not currently no, the SLVoice is a seperate process and is not subject
> to the socks wrappers within the viewer. Although i see no reason why
> you could not" socksified" that executable with a socks wrapper
> program for the time being. I think this deservesis worth a jira
> feature request, as SG 1.4 supports socks and SG2.0 will once i pull
> my finger out, SLVoice also supporting it is a valid requirment
>
> Give me the SLVoice code and i will do it.
>
> Robin
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-- 
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD Research Associate Professor Idaho State
University, PocatelloTel: 208-282-5333
More info at http://tr.im/RRamloll
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[opensource-dev] SCRUM question: negative daily velocity

[Moriz Gupte]

May I venture to share these questions:
Regarding the snowstorm sprint2 backlog: I have always tried to observe
other teams using scrum and I have a question regarding negative daily
velocity values. I am not familiar with this and am thinking if this is the
case, then it could mean that burndown graph Y axis would need negative
values as well?? What does negative daily velocity actually mean? just a
reflection of a task having been underestimated?
R

'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
*Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State
University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-282-5333
Blog ,
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, Play2Train 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Moriz Gupte]

Thanks David, share your sentiments and logic. Would not have overloaded the
list, but guess this is one of the venues that is heard most.
Totally agree with
"Lame Internet lawyers are lame.  How many lawsuits have their been over the
fact that it's easy to have a name that's very similar to someone else's?
 How many times has Plurk been sued because you can make your display name
be anything you like?  How many times has *any* online service been sued
because it made it too easy for one person to masquerade as someone else?
 What makes you think you have a better notion of the legal danger than the
Lab's legal staff does? "
Even my homeland prime minister (Mauritius) had his FB created by some geek,
he sued and lost... he just got the page removed. In Idaho, where I
currently stay, many republicans started using Twitter only because folks
created accounts in their name, and they joined the bandwagon later..., even
the Dalai Lama's FB and twitter accounts got created... yes there are
problems, but they got fixed once the genuine people raised the alarm. From
where I stand, this functionality will go a long way to improve the first
hour experience, because new so called 'serious/fed agency/corporate' users
getting pushed into SL, come with the expectation that its registration
process will be like any web 2.0 application they are already familiar with.
Then beyond this issue, once they are logged in, comes the problem of
identifying each other...real names is the only cue that will allow them to
connect (in that first hour). And I have used pretty much all the tricks of
the trade to make their rl names appear above their avatar but the process
is crazy at best. They can learn about whether to trust or not these names
etc... later on and learn how to use exercise caution and address the name
spoofing issues pretty much like what happens in rl and at similar
frequencies. There are no perfect systems,I recognize that display names
feels like a band aid solution, so be it. SL is a mega bandaid...no turning
back. Some decisions were made in the past which lead to the naming problems
we see today, every bad initial decision which has been integrated into
useful functionalities will take a very long time to die (fact of life).
@Oz Linden, I feel your pain of being submerged with noise, but
unfortunately this is the price you have to pay for listening. And you
cannot afford not to listen because there are gems in that noise that will
help your own work and LL in general. So take the noise as part of business,
that would be my advice to you. And I stop my noise here.
R

On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 9:24 AM, David M Chess  wrote:

>
> This post could be a classroom lesson in "how to alienate people and not be
> taken seriously".
>
> Daniel Smith :
>
> >>> 1. Will there be procedures in place to prevent someone else to use my
> >>> true avatar name as their display name?
> >>
> >>No.
> >
>
> > Wrong answer.
>
> Actually it's the right answer!  The question was "will there be procedures
> in place", and since the current Lab plan is that there won't be procedures
> in place, "No" is the right answer.
>
> You can argue that the current plan should be changed, but "wrong answer"
> just makes you sound faux-macho and confrontational.
>
> > I think the Lindens are underestimating the legal fallout that will ensue
> when names are abused.
>
> Lame Internet lawyers are lame.  How many lawsuits have their been over the
> fact that it's easy to have a name that's very similar to someone else's?
>  How many times has Plurk been sued because you can make your display name
> be anything you like?  How many times has *any* online service been sued
> because it made it too easy for one person to masquerade as someone else?
>  What makes you think you have a better notion of the legal danger than the
> Lab's legal staff does?
>
> > People are stating loud and clear what they want.
>
> Careful inspection will reveal that not everyone is saying the same thing.
>
> > Are you guys deaf?
>
> No, they aren't.  And this kind of insulting tagline just makes you look
> like a posturing child.
>
> fwiw...
>
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*Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State
University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-282-5333
Blog ,
LinkedIn
, Play2Train 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes

[Moriz Gupte]

What surprises me is that 'people who made much of the success possible' are
'leaving'? Is this a pattern? I really cannot imagine the kind of pressure
you LLs are working under, I mean what kind of workplace is LL??
R

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Ponzu  wrote:

> Best wishes to Tofu and Aimee for the future.
>
>
>
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-- 
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
*Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State
University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-282-5333
Blog ,
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, Play2Train 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Down tools and play the "game" -- was Re: What was the point of display names?

[Moriz Gupte]

Thank you LL for at least considering to implement display names. This has
been a much needed functionality especially if Second Life is to deployed as
an instructional technology at par with any educational technology out
there. This matter has been debated for years. Yes there are problems with
Display Names as it stands but moving forward does not mean it should be
scrapped.
R

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Scruffy  wrote:

> Can we not have the whining about Display Names on here please?  It's
> happening so get over it.
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-- 
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
*Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State
University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-282-5333
Blog ,
LinkedIn
, Play2Train 
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