Re: [opensource-dev] New topic: Snowglobe 2.0 way forward?
Am 10.03.2010 um 22:35 schrieb Tigro Spottystripes: > IMO, windows that are on top of the view like a Heads Up Display feel > more like they're part of the world, like they are in the same place > as > i am, while a bar that makes the world view smaller makes it feel like > the world view is just a screen showing images on a panel with a bunch > of controls in it. It's interesting then that many of the alternate metaverse viewers try to fully decouple the UI (chat boxes, imventory etc) completly from the world view window to the point where they are separate windows (while the Sl viewer still has it 'all in one wndow'). Seen with this view of 'immersion' that seem like not so good an idea... Thanks for bringing this up, it got me thinking about a few concepts I had. -Martin ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] New topic: Snowglobe 2.0 way forward?
Ok, this is my very personal impression from my use: * anything that requires me to switch focus will break my immersion That is true for having to switch from keyboard to moise (like if I need to CLICK to focus on the IM text entry, instead of being able to use a keyboard shortcut) In that thought... I'd think that having to switch windows - or even monitors to read the chat/IM or select things in the inv... would break my immersion. Note that this does not apply lilewise for activities like scripting or building. These are not so much about immersion, but more about effcient workflow and 'having it all organized' - sp here being able to put the script editor etc on a window outside the world view seems very much a want-to-have My current concept was this: * I was thinking of reducing the clutter of UI widget on the world view by taking the sidebar conceot to it's max... putting all UI (or most) panels into this sidebar. Important here would be a good set of keyboard shortcuts to quickly switch between tabs etc That might slo have the added benefir of being able to quickly blend out all UI or bring it back - sliding the sidebar as it does. (ok, you can do that with mouselook) Anyway, my feeling is that immersion is less a matter of where things are on screen... but how naturally I can access them. -Martin Am 10.03.2010 um 23:13 schrieb Tigro Spottystripes: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > having GUI elements as completly separated windows from the world > rendering is much different form squeezing the world view in order to > show more GUI elements, it's actually kinda like having windows on top > of the world view, except that you can also move them from out of it. > > That approach actually may allow for both styles (over the world view > and fighting for space with it), while also allowing the third style > for > people with multiple monitors, where the world view uses the whole > screen space, while communications and other elements are still > displayed without reducing the visibility of the world at all. > > > I'm not completly sure about how i feel in relation to the immersion > of > the third style, i think i would interpret the external windows as > additional senses to vision, i think it's a nice mix of all sorts of > possibilities, it's flexible enough to satisfy all tastes, or at least > the most common ones. > > > > > On 10/3/2010 18:47, Martin Spernau wrote: >> Am 10.03.2010 um 22:35 schrieb Tigro Spottystripes: >>> IMO, windows that are on top of the view like a Heads Up Display >>> feel >>> more like they're part of the world, like they are in the same place >>> as >>> i am, while a bar that makes the world view smaller makes it feel >>> like >>> the world view is just a screen showing images on a panel with a >>> bunch >>> of controls in it. >> >> It's interesting then that many of the alternate metaverse viewers >> try >> to fully decouple the UI (chat boxes, imventory etc) completly from >> the world view window to the point where they are separate windows >> (while the Sl viewer still has it 'all in one wndow'). >> Seen with this view of 'immersion' that seem like not so good an >> idea... >> Thanks for bringing this up, it got me thinking about a few >> concepts I >> had. >> >> -Martin >> ___ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iEYEARECAAYFAkuYGYQACgkQ8ZFfSrFHsmUKwACdHmg1bPhwKONBOOc9o8atFCuD > 6oYAn0aNvVIJCUJdDvdAXlAJ9Qkk/3cP > =rmm3 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Request for comments about llSetAgentEnvironment / SVC-5520
> On 2010-03-12, at 08:56, Maggie Leber (sl: Maggie Darwin) wrote: >> Actually *loading* the music URL *IS* an opt in, thank goodness, in >> the current production viewer (and the current beta viewer behavior >> of >> automatically willy-nilly loading of URLs is a *huge* security issue) It's an option in Preferences>Sound & Media to enable/disable sreaming musc and or media (also Voice) They can be muted, and they can be disbaled. Possibly it *defaults* to enabled though -Martin ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Request for comments about llSetAgentEnvironment / SVC-5520
I guess it would make sense to handle this similar to the daytime overrides in the World>Environbment menu. I can set the time to say 'Midnight' and I can also 'Revert to Region Default' -Martin Am 12.03.2010 um 16:33 schrieb Lear Cale: > I think we're arguing over something that's a side effect of an > implementation decision, not a fundamental issue of personal liberty. > Windlight happens to be client side rather than server-side, even > though it's more about the environment -- the created world -- than it > is about personal control of the GUI's look and feel. > > In any case, a lot of people will want to retain control and should > be able to. > > I suggest that, for parcel or region control, the first time an > automatically-grantable request to change WL happens, the user should > see a popup which asks whether to allow it, along with a "don't ask > again" checkbox. This popup would be in the form of a GUI popup > rather than the permission popup. The permission popup would only be > for cases where permission isn't automatically grantable. (The script > would think it got permission, and this should be DOCUMENTED so it > doesn't get reported as a bug.) > > This should satisfy most people on both sides of this fence. Most > people would grant it and never worry again. Those who don't want to > yield control would only have to click "no" once. And it would be a > checkbox in the "View" menu somewhere, to change on a whim. > > Lear > > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Maggie Leber (sl: Maggie Darwin) > wrote: >> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:27 AM, Carlo Wood wrote: >> >>> I suppose that some people do NOT want a shared experience >>> and to live in their own little isolated world. Well, can't >>> deny them power over their own viewer, >> >> Good, thank you. Because there are people who don't seem to believe >> in >> that; that owning some parcel should give them huge rights to control >> other people's viewers. >> >>> But may I remind you that there is ALSO no opt-in to >>> ignore the music url of a parcel, and keep the one you have >>> set? >> >> Actually *loading* the music URL *IS* an opt in, thank goodness, in >> the current production viewer (and the current beta viewer behavior >> of >> automatically willy-nilly loading of URLs is a *huge* security issue) >> ___ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Request for comments about llSetAgentEnvironment / SVC-5520
Am 12.03.2010 um 16:58 schrieb Dickson, Mike (ISS Software): > the old viewer where it was off and needed to be explicitly enabled. Well if you are a new user (first login etc) you get the "This oarcel can.. Do you want to auto play media by default' Dialog. At leastit ask you once ^^ - if you at that point understand what it's asking, you do have the choice to disable it. I'll assume that most new users may simply click yes If the viewer 2 would disable media on a prim by default... ut's highly likely that a ton of users would never learn about it. As such I guess 'default on' is the way to go - if you want the feature to be known that is ^^ For those who do NOT want the feature, it can be disabled by a preference setting. I'm not saying anything about the security aspect etc. What I am saying is that if LL wants this new feature to be known, they'd use 'on by default' - Or at least ask the user the first time they encounter it (like for streaming media) -Martin ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Request for comments about llSetAgentEnvironment / SVC-5520
Am 12.03.2010 um 17:30 schrieb Argent Stonecutter: >> If the viewer 2 would disable media on a prim by default... ut's >> highly likely that a ton of users would never learn about it. As >> such I guess 'default on' is the way to go - if you want the feature >> to be known that is ^^ > > It could use the same dialog that is uses for auto-play media. Yes, I agree ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe 2.0^H^H^H1.3 way forward?
My feeling is that it would make the most sense to add a 'old style UI' as option to Snowglobe 2, along with the ability to turn off all unwanted new features (media on prim etc) -Martin Am 12.03.2010 um 15:23 schrieb Argent Stonecutter: > On 2010-03-12, at 07:45, Aleric Inglewood wrote: >> I'm even disappointed by the sheep that instantly started to reappy >> all ignored 1.x patches and are working their ass off to get 2.0 to >> compile and run... What is the use? Are you going to use it yourself? > > So you think the way forward to Snowglobe should be to ignore 2.x and > see about backporting the 2.x functional improvements to 1.3.x? > > What would Linden Lab do if people actually started doing that? > > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe 2.0^H^H^H1.3 way forward?
Am 12.03.2010 um 17:47 schrieb Soft Linden: > With larger features like mesh coming along, know that you'll be > signing up for an awfully large chunk of porting work though. Which is why my feeling is that it makes more sense to add tjhe old UI to the new viewer. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Building Snowglobe 2.0
Jeff, I've more or less sucessfully built snowglobe 2 on Leopard 10.5 recently, but haven't tried the current latest SVN One thing I always need to set right after develop.py in XCode is the 'Active SDK' from 10.4 to the only one I have installed, which is 10.5 Also, it seems that it only realy builds for me in Release configuartion Another possible issue might be the version of gcc that your XCode uses. My XCode is 3.1.4, which uses gcc 4 ... I thinkl that later version of SCode come with higher gcc version - and those cause issues with the SLViewer code Hope that helps. -Martin Am 12.03.2010 um 18:13 schrieb Jeff Eastman: > I'm new to this project and have been trying to build Snowglobe 2.0 on > my Snow Leopard Mac. The download process went fairly smoothly until I > got to actually running the XCode build. At that point I found many, > many incorrect OS version dependencies (to OSX 10.4) that I had to fix > one artifact at a time. As I believe the project structure was built > by > running develop.py I wonder if there is a global way to fix the OS > dependency so that, the next time I update my source, I won't have > to do > the tedious editing by hand. > > Now I have a hard build failure attempting to open > /linden/indra/build-darwin-i386/llplugin/slplugin/RelWithDebInfo/ > SLPlugin, > which does not exist. Any ideas on what I've done wrong? > > Jeff > > > > > > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe 2.0^H^H^H1.3 way forward?
Am 12.03.2010 um 18:48 schrieb Matt White: > While we're discussing the profile window - as someone that roleplays > extensively in SL, having my real life window right next to my SL > profile is a total buzzkill. I *WANT* my SL and RL life to be > separate. I'm not quite sure why there's been such a focus on united > RL and SL identities... it's so backwards from the sprit of SL. Very agreed. If someone wants or needs to see my RL info, they can spare the extra click ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe 2.0^H^H^H1.3 way forward?
Am 12.03.2010 um 18:48 schrieb Brent Tubbs: > Ha - I'm not the only one who does this? I'm forever leaving profiles > open and minimized when checking out places in resis' picks. Half the > time I find an interesting object during a visit, want to check out > the creator's picks, and end up adding another window or two before > I've exhausted the picks in the first. > > I do this *all the time* too, but half the time once I get around to > checking out the profiles I've minimized, I realized that I closed > them all in a frenzy of cleaning up my screen. It makes me want to > try to implement some kind of "save for later" bucket into which I > could drag profiles and picks, then return to them during the same > session. This is one place where the browser anaolgy works: Profiles are URLs so we could have 'bookmarks' A bit like a LM really, only for a profile - and while we are at it, for group profiles too ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] llDialog and Viewer 2
In Viewer 2, llDialog and permission alerts etc are 'hidden' behind the Notifications... you don't instantly see them, only if you check your Notifications. In some case that might be 'nice' (Dialog Spam etc) But when the user clicks on an Object that responds with a Menu of choices... they won't see it, and might simply miss it - if they don't know or remember to check the little Notifications icon ^^ ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Building Snowglobe 2.0
>> I had to reinstall XCode to get the 10.4 OS files but that and >> changing the >> gcc to use 4.0 has solved my problem. Snowglobe built fine and is >> running. >> Now I have a mountain of code to discover. YAY Jeff Actually I can very well build without the 10.4 SDK, I just need to make sure I set the Active SDK' to 10.5 (it defaults to 10.4) I'm assuming that my build might not run on a Tiger 10.4 OS X install, haven't tested that -Martin ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Third party viewer policy: commencement date
Just as a note here: In Germany for example even if you 'just' publish a simple webpage/blog, you are required (by law) to state your real life name and address (Impressum) This may not be a requirement when you publish content outside of Germany (it is in many other countries too as I think) -Martin Am 20.03.2010 um 19:14 schrieb Jesse Barnett: On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Timothy Horrigan > wrote: Jesse: How does it endanger your daughter's life to have your business address listed? You can always rent a PO Box for a few bucks a month if you feel sensitive about divulging your street address, which many businesspeople choose to do. I do have a business associate whose real anme & address I do not know, but I pay him a nominal amount. I pay him about $100/year to rent space and to have him serve as a DJ. But I would never enter into a real business arrangement without knowing the names and addresses of a responsible party. Uner US tax law it is in fact ILLEGAL to exchange major amounts of money without knowing the other party's identity. --Tammy Nowotny 9and no I will not reveal my RL identity on this list.) Straw argument, as your last sentence clearly demonstrates. But for an update, I accidentally responded directly to Joe at first and then he responded directly to me. The 3rd party viewer directory application was reverted by mistake somehow and still shows that LL may publish your contact info.. The Third Party Viewer Policy IS correct and is what will go into effect. You will still have to share real life contact info with Linden Labs but you can opt out of sharing that information with the entire world. (thanks for clearing that up Joe!) Jesse Barnett ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] A note on preserving "NO WARRANTY" for SL TPV developers
Am 30.03.2010 um 14:52 schrieb Simon Disk: > I think I have read a different TPV policy than most people here. I > do not see how clauses 11 and 12 are being overridden. Both clauses > stipulate that the GPL cannot be used to violate the law. So when > you use a TPV and connect to the SL grid and then steal content that > you did not create or disrupt Linden Lab's service, those clauses no > longer apply to you. > The question is not if they apply to the hypothetical 'you' who broke the law, but if they apply to the TPV *developer* who happened to be somehow involved in getting you the viewer that made it possible to break the law... even if said dev is only one inncocent link in a chain ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Accepting the INTENT but not accepting the TPV
As much as I dislike(d) the ongoing discussion about the TPVP, I DO love this suggestion Laughter (and sillyness) is alwa the best answer to any problem - thanks for suggesting this Am 12.04.2010 um 21:41 schrieb Morgaine: A few people have made the rather extraordinary suggestion that the TPV is "OK" because the intent is good, no matter how dreadful its wording. They ignore the fact that what matters in court is the actual wording. It is the words that a user must agree to, not the intent. Faced with the silliness of "intent" as a mitigating factor, perhaps what is needed is an equally silly response: Let's write a new document that expresses the intent of LL's TPV, but written cleanly and without any overreaching clauses. Let's call that new document the TPV Intended Policy Document, or IPD for short. Modify the GPL viewer (which you have a license to do without further restrictions, a freedom that was granted to you by LL) in such a way that, on detecting the incoming Linden TPV Policy document, it presents you with the IPD instead. Click on the Agree button if you agree with the intent of the TPV, and TAKE A SCREEN SHOT OF IT, just in case. Go back to doing something useful with your time. I hope we don't need to descend to this level of comedy. The TPV should state what is intended, not something totally different. I recommend that we use tomorrow's meeting with Joe to affirm this. Morgaine. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] inventory trash icon missing
This seems like a good moment to mention that Kirstens S20 has had skinning support in a viewer 2.0 based viewer for some time now :) The key change is trivial - there is a line in the LL v 2.0 code that forces any skin choice back to 'defaul' commiting that out and skinning works as before add a skin selector and you are go http://www.kirstensviewer.com/ Am 07.05.2010 um 23:29 schrieb Philippe (Merov) Bossut: Hi, On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Robert Martin wrote: 2 semi related questions 1 any hope of getting the skin switcher re-enabled?? I'm not aware of an effort in that direction internally but there sure is an opportunity for the Snowglobe community to work on this. 2 could somebody write a guide as to what file (and xml bits) do what in a skin?? since i think there are a couple bits that changing %example file% not only changes the function you think it does but these 4 other unrelated functions/floaters There's an internal doc that in the process of being edited before being pushed to the public wiki so, yes, such a doc should be coming soon. Cheers, - Merov ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Draw Distance
> I like a lot leliel's suggestion about Windlight control > via commandline, especially because I guess that would > evolve into gestures = tradeable assets (correct?) Assuming that everyone using that gesture has the same windlight prefs installed, probably yes. That's also assuming that the currently used windlight pref can be se via debug settimngs -Martin ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Draw Distance
Am 23.08.2010 um 21:39 schrieb Arrehn Oberlander: > This is just off the top of my head. Many of these depend on user's > preference for framerate vs scene details at a moment in time, and > can't be reliably guessed purely from inworld behavior (although there > are hints, I will grant). Isn't that much like in photography, where you have different kinds of 'automatic' (shutter speed vc aperture auto) ... and depending on your creatice needs the one is betzer than the other and vice versa Maybe the 'optimize for high fps' and 'optimize for view distance' would be the viewer equivalöents -Martin ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
