[opensource-dev] What client for Havok 2k10 / mesh testing?
Someone mentioned to me that there is a physics engine upgrade test over on the beta grid. I haven't used SL in a while (waiting for mesh to be done) so on startup I am notified of the 2.4 beta client at the login screen, yeah might as well install that. Hmm, odd, I don't think this beta client works with the mesh / physics beta grid. Everything just looks like paper-thin 2D rhombuses at odd angles all over the place. So what client am I supposed to be using? Probably should mention that detail on the wiki pages for the Havok 2k10 beta test grid. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Can you legally agree to incomprehensible conditions?
I am not a lawyer. I don't know how the whole business model of lawyers and fees work. This whole "talk to a lawyer" boilerplate response raises questions related to lawyer fees, that do not appear to be well known.. Can individuals actually talk directly to Linden's TOS lawyers without paying a fee of some sort? Probably the huge corporate lawyer being asked the question wants a fairly sizable fee to provide that answer, possibly $100 to $1000 per hour. It is not clear to me what happens when an outside person wants to talk to a lawyer employed by some company. The lawyer might bill the questioner for asking the question and bill the company for clarifying the answer. What does it cost per minute to call LL's TOS lawyers on the phone and discuss the issues? Will they even do such an informal form of communication with a potentially hostile questioner? I suspect a lawyer would never willingly submit to having such a phone call recorded, for later transcribing and publishing by the questioner on a mailing list like this. I don't know if an individual can even directly talk to a company's lawyer and get an answer they understand. If lawyers wrote the TOS in "legalese" then their response to people not employed by the company might also be in written legalese. It may be necessary for the questioner to hire their own lawyer ($$) to write a proper legalese question to be submitted for answering by the company lawyer (who likely wants to get paid from someone for answering... the individual, again? The company?) And then your individual lawyer interprets the corporate legalese response back in to normal human format, for yet another fee. This is all conjecture. But it seems possible that if people on this mailing list want to ask direct questions of LL's TOS lawyers and get direct answers for this free open source project, the questioners may need to have some deep pockets and be willing to blow a few thousand to get those answers. On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) wrote: > 1) The first line of my comment is that I don't speak for Linden legal. > 2) What I said was that if you want to understand legalese, you should talk > to a lawyer. That's it. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] So you don't like the new TOS and wanna move to the OS grid?
I just tried using the SL 1.x client with OS grid for the first time this weekend. Overall the experience was plain awful, on a 10 megabit internet connection and GTX 285 1024meg Oddly, when giving the SL client the OSgrid URL from the command line, the client login page tells me that the Second Life grid is up, and the number of concurrent users in SL, etc. Why is the client not telling me the status of the OSgrid instead? On first login, the sim textures took forever to load. Like, after 5 minutes I'm still standing in a sea of gray boxes. Simple physics only with the ground. All objects are phantom. I'd think the OSGrid default login would want to showcase the collision-resolving capabilities of the more advanced open physics engines, but oh well. When I search for sandboxes to try building stuff... odd, the search window shows me stuff from Second Life, not the OSGrid. Most teleports fail because it appears I'm getting links to SL sims that don't accept connections from OSGrid. Yep, I can find the Cordova Sandbox from the search page within OSGrid. (I don't think search should list sims that don't accept connections.) Searching for "osgrid" in the search window oddly turns up nothing. How am I to find sandbox sims in OSGrid? "Oh, just open the map and pick that way" someone tells me. Yeah that works well. the map shows about a 10x10 grid of sims nearby, but the rest of the map doesn't want to load. Timeout. I did actually manage to find another OSgrid sim to connect to, but on join it turned out to have a ping of 6000. (It would be useful for the search page to show a graph of the sim load for the last five minutes so we know if a sim is lagged out BEFORE we try teleporting.) And oh joy, I can't now "teleport home" to where I started. The OSgrid did something I've not seen happen on SL in a long time, where I seem to still be connected but all the traffic meters in the client debug (Ctrl-Shift-1) drop to 0 kbps. The inventory never loaded completely, even though as a new user it's empty. Relogin attempts attempting to login at the home location were just as slow and unresponsive. Yep, if you don't like the new SL client developer TOS, there is sure a great future to look forward to with the open source grid project. :-P ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Soft body physics
Can you point to anything in 3D animation that already does this sort of thing? I don't think it exists. The idea sounds reminiscent of an idea I posted on this list a few years ago, wrapping a sculptie mesh around a collection of prims and "deflating" the mesh until its vertices form-fit the prims within, sort of like vacuum-forming with plastic, to quickly make a multiprim object into a single sculptie. , Sending raw soft-mesh vertex points to the client to accurately show the soft mesh shape would likely be far too slow. A simple mesh can contain a few hundred points, each with X/Y/Z coordinates, and these must all be adjusted for each new "frame" of the 3D renderer. You would probably have to simplify and generalize the soft body modeling to make it fast enough for a slow network connection, and leave the actual modeling up to the local computer. Define general static forces that pin the mesh around its edge and on its surface, such as the flattening buttons like on chair cushions. To "inflate" the mesh into a bun or balloon, assign a general direction of billow. And if desired, also adjust the elasticity of the rays linking vertices together to tighten up or loosen the overall shape, such as along seams on pillows.. To deform the mesh the server only sends a force and a 3D impression shape to the client, such as a sphere X meters in diameter pressing into the mesh surface with Y newtons of force. The client then uses that simple data in combination with the defined static forces to dynamically deform the soft mesh vertices, such as representing your avatar's feet pushing down on surface of a trampoline. Just don't ask me to program that. :-) - Dale Mahalko / Scalar Tardis On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Glen Canaday wrote: > I can imagine fields of waving grass, rubber couches and trampolines ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache
I just don't have the motivation for it myself, but I would really like it if a 3rd party developer would gut out LL's texture cache and eliminate the VFS, and replace them with a simple disk cache that writes all assets in raw format, with files named by UUID on disk. * Decode all JPEG2000's once, to all levels of mipmap scale, and write the raw RGB mipmaps to disk as individual files (UUID+mipscale.bmp), discarding the source JP2's. * Decode all OGGs to WAV once, and write the raw WAV to disk, discarding the OGGs. * Oh, and don't ever delete any assets until your dedicated 2 terabyte cache drive is 99.99% full. * Let the local operating system deal with the file caching. If you have 4+ gig of system memory, let the OS manage it for caching frequently accessed world data. This cache would much simpler than the layered mess of caches currently used, and it would give a speed boost over the constant JP2 to RGB mipmap decoding and discarding that is in place now. Decode once and don't ever do it again. , But I know it is just a dream. LL will never let it happen since it will lay bare the data contents of every prim, texture, and object in the virtual world, rather than obfuscating asset storage within the current VFS / JP2 method. This viewer would get blacklisted before it ever got out the door. - Dale Mahalko / Scalar Tardis ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] a Thought on fixing mega prims
If you want to see where any type of prim (not just mega) encroaches on neighboring parcels, it could be done by having a 2D "virtual shadow" under the prim while the object is being moved/rotated, as if cast by a light source infinitely high above the object. Where the virtual shadow crosses into neighboring / nongroup parcels, that portion of the shadow could be highlighted to let the person see where they are encroaching, and they can interactively move/rotate the object to minimize the highlighted overlap. For objects in the sky, the virtual shadow could be cast onto a translucent 2D representation of the parcel borders below, and which disappears when moving/rotating stops. - Dale Mahalko / Scalar Tardis On 9/17/10, Robert Martin wrote: > Im just dartboarding this but would it be possible to have some sort > of secondary center marker on the ends of prims to enable showing that > a prim encroaches on a neighboring parcel?? > (primary center would be the geometric center of the object and the > secondary centers would be the ends of the X Y and Z axis or the > centers of each face of the bounding box) > > i would think that raising the limit to 63|4 meters would be good enough. > > -- > Robert L Martin > and yes this still does not cover a large prim covering 3 or more small > parcels > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Unity 3D as possible base / 2.x Codebase plugin capable?
An in-world prim-to-mesh converter would both be incredibly powerful and yet also easy to use. Heck, it could be practically transparent to the end-user. Make prims, arrange, and link them * Prims are merged automagically into a mesh * Embedded and overlapping internal surfaces are removed * The original prims disappear from world * The mesh is now the stand-in for the prims Unlink the mesh * The mesh disappears and is discarded. * Prims are reloaded back into the world for editing as individual objects This could shed massive amounts of hidden vertexes from linked prim sculptures, prim vehicles, houses, roads, etc, and significantly improve frame-rates, all while being mostly transparent to the end user... perhaps little more than a checkbox option in the editor : "Make linked prims into a mesh?" Though I would hope for a way to separately link together prims to make the physics collision surface for a high-prim object. That way a beautiful vase with curved handles can have a simple cylinder collision surface to go with it, and take load off the physics engine. This could be anti-griefed by making sure that the collision surface always has fewer vertexes than the visible mesh it is joined to. - Dale Mahalko / Scalar Tardis On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 2:08 AM, Celierra Darling wrote: > I don't see why mesh editing needs to be considered "basic"? I would > consider building through prims to be the most basic, to learn how > objects/prims/links work and what features are available and what texturing > is and the such. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Remote convex decomposition?
Regarding this chunk of Havok software that LL cannot release in the open-source viewer... just an idea... Is it really necessary for this to be a part of the client? Since the process is only done when uploading a mesh, and so would be done infrequently, it appears that this could be handled server-side by LL. Send the raw mesh to the sim (or to a dedicated Havok decomposition server), adjust the detail sliders for the process in the client, send those parameters to the decomposition server, and then it sends back the Havok-decomposed results to the client for the user to review, before the user does the final commit of the object to the grid. This would result in no need to be concerned about exposing the commercial Havok code, and no need to replace it with something else, on the open source side. , Though, I am unfamiliar with the technicalities of this decomposition process. I do not know how big the source meshes can be or how much of a bandwidth or CPU load it would be to centralize the process on Linden servers. - Dale Mahalko / Scalar Tardis ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
