Re: [opensource-dev] Third party viewer policy

[Brent Tubbs]

For a while I've been batting around the idea of creating an SVN-bot to
enable much-improved version control for inworld scripts; a must-have when
you're developing as part of a team.  The same-creator policy on content
export would seem to prohibit that though.

I realize that you probably don't want to have different rules for each
different content type, but the one-size-fits-all rule in the current policy
doesn't fit scripts well at all.

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Robin Cornelius  wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Soft Linden  wrote:
> > Mike's correct.
> >
> > If you see any wording that's ambiguous about that, let us know.
> > ___
>
>
> Well you seem to have spelled the end of my debian/ubuntu project, I
> can not meet the tems of the third party viewer policy:-
>
> "On your software download page or in another location that a user
> must visit before installing the Third-Party Viewer, you must disclose
> the following:"
>
> I cannot do this with an apt-repository, the user can bypass every
> possible webpage or description field. and the fact the policy says
> this is a MUST. The only possible way to do this is to create a custom
> program that displays a screen during the install hook of the package
> and aborts the package install. This can no longer be accepted in to
> the main debian or ubuntu repositories.
>
> Also it appears that i cannot use the snowglobe logo or name, even
> though i'm basicly building from almost prestine source. I though this
> was the entire point of the snowglobe rebranding, but now we are
> exactly where we were with secondlife 12 months ago.
>
> Robin
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Re: [opensource-dev] TPV Policy makes Secondlife *content* incompatible with CC-SA licenses

[Brent Tubbs]

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Jason Giglio  wrote:

> Darmath wrote:
> > Having read the TOS i'm comfortable in saying that it is reasonably
> > clear that two exchanges don't take place, but that the agency
> > situation, with LL existing as a mutual agent, would apply to SL.
> >> Darmath wrote:
>
> The CC-SA-By is not a contract, it's a copyright license.  Contract law
> concepts are mostly irrelevant.
>
> If you fail to comply with the license, then your right to distribute
> the work terminates, and you are committing copyright infringement if
> you continue to distribute.  You aren't in breach of contract.
>
> Your remedies would be limited to those under copyright law, not
> contract law.  This is a common confusion, mostly because companies like
> Microsoft have conflated copyright licenses with copyright law with
> their contract-like EULAs.
>

You sound a lot more sure of this than I think is warranted.  There's
nothing stopping licenses from being contracts and vice versa.  If there's
an offer, an acceptance, and an exchange of value (even just promises to do
or not do something), then there's a contract, even if the word "contract"
never appears in the text.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe 2.0^H^H^H1.3 way forward?

[Brent Tubbs]

>
>
> Ha - I'm not the only one who does this? I'm forever leaving profiles
> open and minimized when checking out places in resis' picks. Half the
> time I find an interesting object during a visit, want to check out
> the creator's picks, and end up adding another window or two before
> I've exhausted the picks in the first.
>
> I do this *all the time* too, but half the time once I get around to
checking out the profiles I've minimized, I realized that I closed them all
in a frenzy of cleaning up my screen.  It makes me want to try to implement
some kind of "save for later" bucket into which I could drag profiles and
picks, then return to them during the same session.
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Re: [opensource-dev] "Bookmark" other residents

[Brent Tubbs]

>  This sounds suspiciously like calling cards. Maybe we should allow to
> create them by 
> other
> ways  than only by giving your
> own to someone?
>
>
While I agree that this would look a lot like calling cards under the hood,
I'm not too keen on the UI implementation of having yet another inventory
folder full of old junk I never get around to looking at.  I'm thinking of
more like an ordered, drag/drop to-do list, into which you could drop LMs,
picks, profiles, notecards, or even offline IMs.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Client-side scripting REST/HTTP doc sample

[Brent Tubbs]

That looks very neat!

SNOW-375 talks a lot about the MonoVida viewer, but I don't see any mention
of that in your email below.  Is MonoVida needed to try this out?  I'm
interested in just poking at the REST interface a bit with some raw http.

I'll see if Opensource Obscure's build instructions on that page still work.
 If I can get the latest SG + this patch working, I'd be interested in
helping to develop this further.

Brent

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Dzonatas Sol  wrote:

> Here is a sample of the REST/HTTP doc for SNOW-375.
>
> SNOW-375 adds a HTTP server in the viewer to be easily accessible by any
> process or client-side script in a language agnostic manner.
>
> I posted this here to hopefully encourage forward movement in
> client-side scripting and to avoid the backpedal and reinventions.
>
> Note: This is tried, tested, and works. This is not just "talk" or
> made-up documentation.
>
> +
>
> SNOW-375: REST/HTTP URI patterns and response summary as of March 2010
>
> All names that appears in angle brackets, <>, are variable.
>
> Note full URI paths used, yet these don't include the
> "http://host:port/"; designation.
>
> Example URI: http://localhost:50140/ControlGroup/SavedSettings
>
> All responses are wrapped in LLSD (examples not included in this doc).
>
> Most of these use the GET method, and combined/burst throughput via the
> POST method.
>
> 
> /ControlGroup
>
> Response is a list of control groups.
>
>
> 
> /ControlGroup/
>
> Response is a list of valid variables in a controlgroup with default
> settings
>
>  is currently either "SavedSettings" or "SavedPerAccountSettings"
>
>
> 
> /ControlGroup//
>
> Response is a detailed and update of current settings for the specific
> variable identified.
>
>  is currently either "SavedSettings" or "SavedPerAccountSettings"
>  is a valid variable name from one of the variable control
> groups.
>
>
> 
> /Agent/Groups
>
> Response is a list with details of groups joined by the connected agent.
>
>
> 
> /AvatarTracker/Friends
>
> Response is the UUID list of the agent's friends and basic status of each.
>
>
> 
> /AvatarTracker/Friend/
>
> Response is a detailed relationship information for a specified friend
> UUID.
>
>
> 
> /GestureManager/Items
>
> Response is a list of UUID of active gestures.
>
>
> 
> /GestureManager/Item/
>
> Response is the details of a MultiGesture structure for the UUID specified.
>
>
> 
> /Inventory/Item/
>
> Response is the details of an inventory item specified by the UUID.
>
>
> 
> /Inventory/Root
>
> Response is the UUID of the root inventory folder.
>
>
> 
> /Inventory/Category/
>
> Response is the UUIDs of the descendant categories and items of the
> specified UUID.
>
>
> 
> /Asset/Notecard/
>
> Response is the notecard item specified by UUID converted to XML format
> (rather than 'linden notecard format').
>
> 
> /Interface/Connect
>
> POST: Attempt to negotiate a connection to enable the above resources.
> * Details of connection steps not included in this doc.
>
> 
> /AvatarTracker/Friend/s
> /GestureManager/Item/s
> /Inventory/Item/s
> /Inventory/Category/s
>
> POST: List of UUIDs for combined query, as above where  is replace
> with just an "s".
> Response: List of combined queries as if each item is an individual
> responses to each UUID.
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe Mecurial Repository

[Brent Tubbs]

Yes hg (mercurial) is distributed.  It also thinks in terms of "changesets"
rather than "versions".

Joel Spolsky of the Joel on Software blog just did a very nice intro and
tutorial on Mercurial that you can read at http:///hginit.com .  The first
section in particular highlights the differences between Mercurial and
Subversion.

Brent

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Jonathan Irvin wrote:

> If I'm not mistaken, Hg is distributed like Git.
>
> Jonathan Irvin
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 05:12, Carlo Wood  wrote:
>
>> What is the advantage again of hg (over svn)? (why the move)
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 05:18:54PM -0700, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
>> >It would
>> > be the wrong impression, further, to assume the same committers will
>> > take on the extra load to help move to hg.
>>
>> --
>> Carlo Wood 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Development project: extending avatar wearables

[Brent Tubbs]

I like this idea a lot.  While we're talking about about increasing
flexibility though, why have a low hardcoded limit to the number of layers?
 The new tattoo and alpha layers are great, but what comes next, and how
long do we keep hardcoding more specific layers?  If someone wants to layer
on ten tattoos at once, let's let them!  At some point it makes sense to
throw away the pre-defined layers and just call them 1 through n.

On the other hand, some content creators sell items in separate under-layer
and tattoo friendly over-layer packs.  I imagine some of them would be
pretty upset if the layer restrictions on all the products they've sold were
suddenly removed.

Brent

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Glen Canaday  wrote:

>  Nyx,
>
> Oh, I actually do have one functionality idea / request: rather than
> allowing the creator to dictate the clothing layer of a wearable, can we
> allow the wearer themselves choose where it goes? I can't tell you how many
> times I've had to not wear something because the original creator did not
> have the foresight to put it on a layer that makes sense for that wearable,
> nor include a copy that goes onto the desired layer.
>
> We might have a tattoo layer now, but most places are not offering that,
> nor are very many people using 2.0. It would be nice to be able to choose
> that a tattoo goes *under* the underpants since most people sell tats on the
> unders layer and will until 2.1 or 2.2 is widely used. If we get to choose
> which of which multiple-wearable goes on top at *wear* time and not *
> creation* time, it allows for far more flexibility in customizing an
> avatar's look.
>
> Just my $0.02, but it's hard to justify having multiple layers in my mind
> without doing it this way.
>
>
> --GC
>
> On 03/23/2010 12:58 PM, Nyx Linden wrote:
>
>   The current iteration of the appearance floater needs to go away. The
> current implementation has been held together with chicken wire, bubble
> gum, and duct tape. It works for now, but it won't hold up to the
> addition of multiple wearables of a given type. The currently designed
> plan is to extend the appearance sidebar to pick up the extra
> functionality of editing a saved outfit and editing of individual
> wearables. I think the flow between the different stages (selecting your
> outfit, editing your outfit, editing a wearable item) should be pretty
> useful and intuitive. I'll be posting our initial design thoughts once
> we get the appropriate channels set up (forums most likely).
>
> I will remind you, however, that this project is specifically about
> extending the avatar functionality. Yes there is a UI element here, and
> I'm open to discussion of various ways of presenting the UI for these
> specific features, given that the ideas are 1) easy to use and intuitive
> and 2) still able to be done within the given timeframe.
>
> It sounds, however that you're asking for the ability to "tear off" any
> of the sidepanels into independent floaters. This is good feedback, and
> a perspective that a number of residents share, but this project is not
> the one that is capable of doing that. We have a design team and a
> "Viewer interactive" team that is in charge of the overall design and
> GUI implementation of the major elements of the viewer. I'm pretty sure
> that they're already aware of this feedback, but I'll send it their way
> again.
>
> Let's keep discussion of the multi-wearables functionality on-target,
> please :)
>
> -Nyx
>
> Bryon Ruxton wrote:
>
>
>  Could you please stop putting everything into that sidebar as the only
> way to access stuff. You’ve kept wanting to make this “communicator
> window “ before into a single un-detachable block. And despite many of
> use hating it and asking for you to make separate floaters, (or at
> least give us that option), you keep attaching everything all together
> again in that sidebar. This is an ill conceived approach for many of
> us, who are used to identify specific panels at a specific position of
> our choice on the screen just like . Blending it all together makes it
> harder in that sense.
>
> I recall LL hiring a guy who worked on the Tivo interface which is a
> great one for its purpose. But the viewer is a much more complex
> interface. I see too much of the Tivo formula into this “drawer”. The
> worse part is that the sidebar buttons are stuck on the left side and
> actual move with the sidebar panel itself. That seems wrong. Button
> should stay at the same place on the right in an Adobe fashion for
> distinction purpose.
>
> I wish you had studied and adopted the approach of the Adobe UIs with
> stackable and detachable panels and buttons on the right side (which
> always stay there). Their approach is a much better solution in my
> view that this drawer type, which is a huge waste of space right now
> and adding to the required amount of clicks to get somewhere.
>
> In short, please reserve an option for detachable floaters as much as
> possible, 

Re: [opensource-dev] question on settings for the 2.0 built-in browser

[Brent Tubbs]

1 - I'm not 100% sure but I believe that the built in browser in 2.0 uses
QtWebKit.
2 - Plugins would be handled at a higher level than just the webkit engine
and there isn't currently a way to create or install them.  I've never heard
of a generic "webkit" plugin.  They're specific to your browser, such as
Chrome or Safari.
3 - No idea.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Robert Martin  wrote:

> Some of the noise surrounding 2.0 concerns the lack of adblocking and
> other privacy enhancing things that can be used with the browser.
> so if somebody could point me to the answers for the following
> questions that would be "spiffy"
>
> 1 the BiB is htmlkit/safari correct?
> 2 how could a person install plugins to the BiB?
> 3 is there a way to use a proxy with the BiB
>
> --
> Robert L Martin
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Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVPTopics to a different mailing list

[Brent Tubbs]

Good idea!  We could even have a directory of people qualified to talk about
it who give their RL info so that people show up front which commenters are
trustworthy.  Any votes for writing this up as the Commenting on the Third
Party Viewer Policy Policy, or COTTPVPP?

/snark :)

Brent

On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Dahlia Trimble wrote:

> I also would be interested in seeing those freely offering their legal
> advice on this list also describing their qualifications to do so and in
> which jurisdictions they are licensed to practice law. If not, then please
> add a "IANAL" or other suitable disclaimer, or mention to what level you
> would be willing to be responsible for the misfortunes that may happen from
> others who may take your advice.
>
> On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Joel Foner  wrote:
>
>> I wonder if anyone has an easy way to calculate the actual signal (os-dev
>> posts) to noise (legal posts) ratio on this list over, let's say the last 30
>> days. It's getting hard to recall when the last actual os-dev discussion
>> happened. Maybe I'm just missing it.
>>
>> Back to my regularly scheduled programming, as it were.
>>
>> Joel
>>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Transcript for today's brown-bag, 4/20 noon PDT

[Brent Tubbs]

Thank you Latha!  Your work is much appreciated.

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Latha Serevi  wrote:

> Transcript of today's chat, including my text-chat paraphrasing of most
> voice comments:
>
> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AW_Groupies/Chat_Logs/JoeLindenTPVBrownbag-2010-04-20
>
> Latha
>
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