Re: [opensource-dev] Test Viewer

[Brandon Husbands]

Any update on when mesh will be released?

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 8:44 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) <
o...@lindenlab.com> wrote:

>  The following viewer builds are available for testing:
>
>
> http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/oz_project-2/rev/219680/index.html
>
> These builds have changes intended to address all of the following issues:
>
> STORM-236  Allow the "Speak"
> button to be removed, like other buttons
> STORM-348  "Edit this shape
> button" button and "lock" icon are shown after each body part name after
> resizing the floater
> STORM-373  'Rename' option is
> disabled if the inventory context menu was opened by right mouse click
> without preliminary selection
> STORM-465  Missing Strings
> from strings.xml
> STORM-547  Name of blocked
> person is not presented in list if person was blocked from Inspector
> STORM-643  Embed Minimap into
> the Nearby list of the People Sidebar
> STORM-843  Inventory
> incremental string search not working (search starts over)
> STORM-845  Up arrow icon on
> nearby chat for "Shows/hides nearby chat log" always shows as an up arrow.
> Should, show change to down arrow to indicate close when log is open.
>
> These are _not_ yet accepted for integration into viewer-development, they
> are proposed changes under review.  Your feedback (here on the list is best)
> is solicited...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [opensource-dev] Hacking up to Visual Studio 2010 ...

[Brandon Husbands]

An integrated interface to current and future infrastructural services
offered by Amazon Web Services. Currently, this includes:

   - Simple Storage Service (S3)
   - SimpleQueue Service (SQS)
   - Elastic Compute Cloud (EC2)
   - Mechanical Turk
   - SimpleDB
   - CloudFront
   - CloudWatch
   - AutoScale
   - Elastic Load Balancer (ELB)
   - Virtual Private Cloud (VPC)
   - Elastic Map Reduce (EMR)
   - Relational Data Service (RDS)
   - Simple Notification Server (SNS)
   - Google Storage
   - Identity and Access Management (IAM)
   - Route53 DNS Service (route53)

I dont think its really needed.


For pythons uninstall with easy_install

Uninstalling Packages

If you have replaced a package with another version, then you can just
delete the package(s) you don't need by deleting the
PackageName-versioninfo.egg file or directory (found in the installation
directory).

If you want to delete the currently installed version of a package (or all
versions of a package), you should first run:

easy_install -mxN PackageName

This will ensure that Python doesn't continue to search for a package you're
planning to remove. After you've done this, you can safely delete the .egg
files or directories, along with any scripts you wish to remove.



On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Twisted Laws wrote:

>  hmmm...  ok, so i removed them...   './setup.py build' works ok and i
> added autobuild/bin to path and I still get the same error from running
>
> $ autobuild configure -c OpenSourceRelWithDebInfo
>
> autobuild.common.AutobuildError: invalid 'pathcheck' setting for 'boto'
>
> looking at it, the file still contains 'pathcheck' : "lib/python2.5/boto"
>
> what is "boto" btw?  did i miss installing something?   there are no boto
> packages that i can find
>
>
>
> > From: thickbrick.sleaf...@gmail.com
> > To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> > Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Hacking up to Visual Studio 2010 ...
> > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 17:03:05 +0200
>
> > CC: twisted_l...@hotmail.com
> >
> > That's what I did (together with /usr/local/bin/autobuild). Maybe there's
> a
> > proper way of removing packages installed with easy_install, but I
> couldn't
> > figure it out...
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thickbrick
>
> ___
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Re: [opensource-dev] Hacking up to Visual Studio 2010 ...

[Brandon Husbands]

Trying to build with vs2k10 pro


D:\Other\vd\viewer-autobuild>autobuild configure -c OpenSourceRelWithDebInfo
--d
ebug
Configuration file 'D:\Other\vd\viewer-autobuild\autobuild.xml'
configuring in D:\Other\vd\viewer-autobuild\build-vc80
configuring for configuration(s) [{'default': False, 'configure':
{'command': No
ne, 'options': ['-G', '"Visual Studio 8 2005"', '-DSTANDALONE:BOOL=FALSE',
'-DIN
STALL_PROPRIETARY=FALSE', '-DFMOD=FALSE'], 'arguments': None}, 'name':
'OpenSour
ceRelWithDebInfo', 'build': {'command': 'devenv.com', 'options': ['/build',
'Rel
WithDebInfo'], 'arguments': ['SecondLife.sln']}}]
executing configure command cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:STRING=RelWithDebInfo
-DUNA
TTENDED:BOOL=OFF -DWORD_SIZE:STRING=32 -DROOT_PROJECT_NAME:STRING=SecondLife
-G
"Visual Studio 8 2005" -DSTANDALONE:BOOL=FALSE -DINSTALL_PROPRIETARY=FALSE
-DFMO
D=FALSE ../indra
CMake Error: CMake was unable to find a build program corresponding to
"Visual S
tudio 8 2005".  CMAKE_MAKE_PROGRAM is not set.  You probably need to select
a di
fferent build tool.
CMake Error: Could not find cmake module
file:D:/Other/vd/viewer-autobuild/build
-vc80/CMakeFiles/CMakeCCompiler.cmake
CMake Error: Could not find cmake module
file:D:/Other/vd/viewer-autobuild/build
-vc80/CMakeFiles/CMakeCXXCompiler.cmake
-- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!
default configuration returned 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\Python26\Scripts\autobuild", line 47, in 
sys.exit( Autobuild().main(sys.argv[1:]) )
  File "D:\Python26\lib\site-packages\autobuild\autobuild_main.py", line
188, in
 main
tool_to_run.run(args)
  File
"D:\Python26\lib\site-packages\autobuild\autobuild_tool_configure.py", li
ne 88, in run
raise ConfigurationError("default configuration returned %d" % (result))
ConfigurationError: default configuration returned 1
ERROR: default configuration returned 1
For more information: try re-running your command with --verbose or --debug

D:\Other\vd\viewer-autobuild>

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) <
o...@lindenlab.com> wrote:

>
> Tomorrow and Friday (Feb 17 & 18), Linden Lab is going to be holding an
> in-house Hackathon (stopping work on many other things, getting many
> developers together all at once, and focusing on getting a lot done in short
> time) to upgrade our builds of all our libraries and the viewer to a new
> toolchain, including our new package management tool 
> (autobuild)
> and Visual Studio 2010 for Windows (yes... about time... whatever... we're
> doing it).
>
> Our goals are simply stated:
>
>1. Get all open source components into repositories under
>hg.secondlife.com (eg bitbucket.org/lindenlab/).  All the third party
>components (things not created by LL) that we incorporate will be in
>repositories named with the prefix "3p-".  Most of these repositories exist
>now, but not all have sources in them yet.
>2. Get each component packaged with an autobuild configuration for
>whatever platforms it is needed on.
>3. Get each component needed on Windows building under autobuild with
>VS 2010.
>4. Get a TeamCity-automated build configured for each component
>repository with the resulting prebuilds of open components uploaded to
>public directories.
> 5. Get the viewer built using the resulting prebuilt libraries, also
>under autobuild with VS 2010.
>
> We also expect to integrate some automated viewer testing into our
> automated viewer builds, but none of that will be externally visible.
>
> If you make a chart with a row for each component, and a column for each of
> 1 through 4 above, it's a lot of boxes to fill in... many have already been
> done: there are some complete rows, but it's still a big job.
>
> I will be providing public updates on the wiki (form and location TBD...
> watch this thread) and on the #opensl IRC channel of how we're doing and the
> status of each public repository.
>
> A non-goal for the Lindens is building the components with Visual Studio
> Express.  There is currently a limitation (see OPEN-1 in jira) that makes
> using Express cumbersome (it requires separate configuration). We do
> recognize that Express is important to open developers, and want it to be
> supported, but there's only so much we can do ourselves in two days.  There
> is an autobuild configuration checked in for building the viewer under
> autobuild including VS Express:
> http://bitbucket.org/oz_linden/viewer-autobuild
>
>
> I'm going to try to get some supporting documentation up on the wiki today
> or early tomorrow.  It should be possible for open developers to help us
> test whether or not the component builds can be used in Express as we go
> along.  If people want to do that and feed me changes, I'll try to get them
> incorporated in real time as much as possible.
>
> Once all this is done (and it probably will not b

Re: [opensource-dev] Hacking up to Visual Studio 2010 ...

[Brandon Husbands]

Heheh ty for the tip..

Though as this is testing for it.. i figured they aughta know that its not
selecting whats installed. =)


On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Twisted Laws wrote:

>  in my case, i copied autobuild.xml to altered.xml and changed all
> occurrances of '"Visual Studio 8 2005" to "Visual Studio 10" and then
> specified it on the autobuild command line with --config_file altered.xml
>
> then it works but I have problems getting googlebreakpad, but thats a
> different issue
>
> --
> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 10:51:24 -0600
> From: xot...@gmail.com
> To: o...@lindenlab.com
> CC: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>
> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Hacking up to Visual Studio 2010 ...
>
> Trying to build with vs2k10 pro
>
>
> D:\Other\vd\viewer-autobuild>autobuild configure -c
> OpenSourceRelWithDebInfo --d
> ebug
> Configuration file 'D:\Other\vd\viewer-autobuild\autobuild.xml'
> configuring in D:\Other\vd\viewer-autobuild\build-vc80
> configuring for configuration(s) [{'default': False, 'configure':
> {'command': No
> ne, 'options': ['-G', '"Visual Studio 8 2005"', '-DSTANDALONE:BOOL=FALSE',
> '-DIN
> STALL_PROPRIETARY=FALSE', '-DFMOD=FALSE'], 'arguments': None}, 'name':
> 'OpenSour
> ceRelWithDebInfo', 'build': {'command': 'devenv.com', 'options':
> ['/build', 'Rel
> WithDebInfo'], 'arguments': ['SecondLife.sln']}}]
> executing configure command cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:STRING=RelWithDebInfo
> -DUNA
> TTENDED:BOOL=OFF -DWORD_SIZE:STRING=32
> -DROOT_PROJECT_NAME:STRING=SecondLife -G
> "Visual Studio 8 2005" -DSTANDALONE:BOOL=FALSE -DINSTALL_PROPRIETARY=FALSE
> -DFMO
> D=FALSE ../indra
> CMake Error: CMake was unable to find a build program corresponding to
> "Visual S
> tudio 8 2005".  CMAKE_MAKE_PROGRAM is not set.  You probably need to select
> a di
> fferent build tool.
> CMake Error: Could not find cmake module
> file:D:/Other/vd/viewer-autobuild/build
> -vc80/CMakeFiles/CMakeCCompiler.cmake
> CMake Error: Could not find cmake module
> file:D:/Other/vd/viewer-autobuild/build
> -vc80/CMakeFiles/CMakeCXXCompiler.cmake
> -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!
> default configuration returned 1
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "D:\Python26\Scripts\autobuild", line 47, in 
> sys.exit( Autobuild().main(sys.argv[1:]) )
>   File "D:\Python26\lib\site-packages\autobuild\autobuild_main.py", line
> 188, in
>  main
> tool_to_run.run(args)
>   File
> "D:\Python26\lib\site-packages\autobuild\autobuild_tool_configure.py", li
> ne 88, in run
> raise ConfigurationError("default configuration returned %d" %
> (result))
> ConfigurationError: default configuration returned 1
> ERROR: default configuration returned 1
> For more information: try re-running your command with --verbose or --debug
>
> D:\Other\vd\viewer-autobuild>
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) <
> o...@lindenlab.com> wrote:
>
>
> Tomorrow and Friday (Feb 17 & 18), Linden Lab is going to be holding an
> in-house Hackathon (stopping work on many other things, getting many
> developers together all at once, and focusing on getting a lot done in short
> time) to upgrade our builds of all our libraries and the viewer to a new
> toolchain, including our new package management tool 
> (autobuild)
> and Visual Studio 2010 for Windows (yes... about time... whatever... we're
> doing it).
>
> Our goals are simply stated:
>
>1. Get all open source components into repositories under
>hg.secondlife.com (eg bitbucket.org/lindenlab/).  All the third party
>components (things not created by LL) that we incorporate will be in
>repositories named with the prefix "3p-".  Most of these repositories exist
>now, but not all have sources in them yet.
>2. Get each component packaged with an autobuild configuration for
>whatever platforms it is needed on.
>3. Get each component needed on Windows building under autobuild with
>VS 2010.
>4. Get a TeamCity-automated build configured for each component
>repository with the resulting prebuilds of open components uploaded to
>public directories.
>5. Get the viewer built using the resulting prebuilt libraries, also
>under autobuild with VS 2010.
>
> We also expect to integrate some automated viewer testing into our
> automated viewer builds, but none of that will be externally visible.
>
> If you make a chart with a row for each component, and a column for each of
> 1 through 4 above, it's a lot of boxes to fill in... many have already been
> done: there are some complete rows, but it's still a big job.
>
> I will be providing public updates on the wiki (form and location TBD...
> watch this thread) and on the #opensl IRC channel of how we're doing and the
> status of each public repository.
>
> A non-goal for the Lindens is building the components with Visual Studio
> Express.  There is currently a limitation (see OPEN-1 in jira) that makes

[opensource-dev] Autobuild still requires cmake?

[Brandon Husbands]

If the goal is to have a building tool why does it still require cmake?

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Re: [opensource-dev] A fond farewell

[Brandon Husbands]

Are you leaving by choice?

On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) wrote:

> In case you hadn't already heard, this is one of my last emails as Q
> Linden. Today's my last day.
>
> It's been fun working with you all. You may see me again as a contributor.
> We'll see how it goes.
>
> Thanks for all of your passion.
>
>Q
>
> ___
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Re: [opensource-dev] A fond farewell

[Brandon Husbands]

Ty for the replies. It was a shocker for me so i was in the WTF state

On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 11:38 PM, Brian McGroarty  wrote:

> It's not likely he'll see this question - it's way past the end of the work
> day at the Boston lab, and possibly even past drunk o'clock at his going
> away party. I doubt there's a one of us who won't miss him, and who wouldn't
> welcome him back.
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Brandon Husbands  wrote:
>
>> Are you leaving by choice?
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In case you hadn't already heard, this is one of my last emails as Q
>>> Linden. Today's my last day.
>>>
>>> It's been fun working with you all. You may see me again as a
>>> contributor. We'll see how it goes.
>>>
>>> Thanks for all of your passion.
>>>
>>
> --
> Brian McGroarty | Linden Lab
> Sent from my Newton MP2100 via acoustic coupler
>



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[opensource-dev] Good Job: Autobuild

[Brandon Husbands]

Compiled flawlessly. Now i can get back to helping =)
Dim.

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[opensource-dev] UserStory (with patch attached): HUD hover text/tooltips.

[Brandon Husbands]

STORY:
As a user when i attach a hud i should be able to hover over a button on the
object and see the description of what it is. Also the tool tip time should
be longer as to not interfere with the ui.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25282?
Patch is attached.

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[opensource-dev] Doxygen Updated / Fixed on dimentox.com

[Brandon Husbands]

LOL no one told me it was down.
I am regenerating the doxygen now.

I have set it to pull nightly form viewer-development and regenerate the
documentation.
This way we have updated Documentation YAY!

If you have other formats you want built let me know.

http://developer.dimentox.com is the new address for the doxygen.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Doxygen Updated / Fixed on dimentox.com

[Brandon Husbands]

Its still generating.
Takes some time as it does the UML diagrams also.

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Boroondas Gupte  wrote:

>  On 03/26/2011 12:26 PM, WolfPup Lowenhar wrote:
>
>  I just tried going to the site and it is only partially there. I only get
> the different selections at the top and when I try to go to any page besides
> the main I get a 404 error.
>
> Indeed, Namespaces , 
> Filesand
> Directories  seem to throw 404s.
> And a lot of classes are missing, too. (Didn't try all link, but I think
> it's all after 
> LLFloaterPropertieson
>  the list of
> Classes .)
>
> ___
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Re: [opensource-dev] Doxygen Updated / Fixed on dimentox.com

[Brandon Husbands]

Its actually on llView now.
should be done soon.


On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Boroondas Gupte  wrote:

>  On 03/26/2011 12:26 PM, WolfPup Lowenhar wrote:
>
>  I just tried going to the site and it is only partially there. I only get
> the different selections at the top and when I try to go to any page besides
> the main I get a 404 error.
>
> Indeed, Namespaces , 
> Filesand
> Directories  seem to throw 404s.
> And a lot of classes are missing, too. (Didn't try all link, but I think
> it's all after 
> LLFloaterPropertieson
>  the list of
> Classes .)
>
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
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Re: [opensource-dev] VWR-25321 - "CTRL + Up/Down Arrow"

[Brandon Husbands]

Dont use it at all

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Opensource Obscure <
opensourceobsc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> How many users know they can use CTRL + Up/Down Arrow to
> scroll back through the history of previously sent chat messages?
> Some users can find this feature useful.
>
> However, I think this feature is a bit hidden, that is it's not
> visible/exposed enough in the viewer - so I created
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25321
>
> "Make user aware of the CTRL + Up/Down Arrow feature
> (which scrolls back message history)"
>
> Please feel free to edit Summary and Description if I didn't
> word them in a clear way.
>
> --
> Opensource Obscure
> http://twitter.com/oobscure - http://opensourceobscure.com/lol
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[opensource-dev] Doxygen questions

[Brandon Husbands]

Alright Caller and call graph are making this take days. I threw 8 cpus at
it with 4 gigs of ram. and it still is taking over 2 days.
Are caller graphs and call graphs needed?


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[opensource-dev] Press release that affects us all!

[Brandon Husbands]

DCS has just finished Acquiring Linden labs.
The Linden Lab staff will be laid off and replaced with my own Staff from
Xotmid Solutions.

We will also be making some major changes to Second Life to improve the
MMORPG aspects of it.

For more information please visit http://dcsengine.com

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Re: [opensource-dev] Press release that affects us all!

[Brandon Husbands]

Its my april fools joke... =)
as it says in a nice big h1 tag on the site april fools.

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 1:13 AM,  wrote:

> Like, i thought we'd know if LL was being bought or for sale or anything,
> but still - Not Funny.  i mean, maybe i just don't have a sense of humor
> or something.  But y'know, Not Funny.
>
> - AK
>
> -
> DCS has just finished Acquiring Linden labs.
> The Linden Lab staff will be laid off and replaced with my own Staff from
> Xotmid Solutions.
>
> We will also be making some major changes to Second Life to improve the
> MMORPG aspects of it.
>
> For more information please visit http://dcsengine.com
>
> --
>
> ---
> This email is a private and confidential communication. Any use of email
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[opensource-dev] Doxygen finally completed.

[Brandon Husbands]

http://developer.dimentox.com/de/db5/classLLViewerCamera_a38fbfdd64a1e1d277aa218103331acfc.html#a38fbfdd64a1e1d277aa218103331acfc
Shows the call graph.

http://developer.dimentox.com/de/db5/classLLViewerCamera.html
Shows the other graphs.

Make sure you press the down arrows to see the images.

The graphs are in UML format.


Unfortunately this takes like 3 days to complete due to all the calls and
such.

Hope this helps.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Mesh support current status???

[Brandon Husbands]

as soon as blue mars decided to go mac only the mesh project went into
hibernation..
No more competition... so no need for it to progress..

Thus is the way these things seem to go. sighs.

On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Daniel  wrote:

> The official answer continues to be mesh will go live "when it's
> ready".  As far as official links, there is latest mesh viewer
> build at:
>
> http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/mesh-development/latest.html
> It can only be tested on mesh enabled regions of the beta grid (aditi),
> most of which are named Mesh Sandbox nn, where nn = 1 to about 36.  You
> can also look at the JIRA Mesh Beta project:
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS for status.
>
>  From personal experience importing models, the state is "basic mesh
> import works in most cases given a "clean" model to upload".  What is
> left to do is reduce the frequency of bad uploads, some of which is not
> LL's fault, it's due to bad source models.  Also things like the upload
> cost and prim equivalence need to be determined.  I have made a full
> body mesh avatar:
>
> https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Experimental-Mesh-Avatar-Female-Boxed/2059187
> with custom skin weights and UV maps.  Some of the joints could move
> better, but that's more due to my limited experience than anything
> else.  On the whole it moves and looks pretty well, showing that nice
> replacement avatars are quite possible in the hands of experienced
> creators.
>
> I have no better idea than anyone else on when beta will be complete,
> but my best guess is a couple of months.  It's basically working right
> now, but I think they want the UI and costs done, and an acceptably low
> level of failures before going to Agni with it.  There are other nice
> features tied to the Mesh project besides mesh objects: shadows and
> projected lights, and 64 meter prims.  I think they very much want the
> package to get out, but not in a buggy form.  There are future
> improvements to mesh that are not part of the first release, too.
> Server side support for mesh has to be done also, but I have less
> visibility on that than the client software.
>
> > From: Robert Martin
> > Subject: [opensource-dev] Mesh support current status???
> >
> > Does anybody have a WORKING link to what the current state of mesh is?
> > Im particularly interested in what work has been done on Mesh based
> > avatars. Bonus if somebody has an idea as to if we will have mesh on
> > the main grid before say third quarter this year.
> >
>
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[opensource-dev] Any possibility of playing animation b y uuid?

[Brandon Husbands]

We cal already play sounds, do textures why cant we play a animation by uuid
via lsl / viewer.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Mesh support current status???

[Brandon Husbands]

There was an announcement t hey wold only be supporting mac a few months
ago.

On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Laurent Bechir  wrote:

>
> Le 17 avr. 2011 à 17:05, Brandon Husbands a écrit :
>
> > as soon as blue mars decided to go mac only the mesh project went into
> hibernation..
> > No more competition... so no need for it to progress..
>
> Where have you eard that Blue Mars would work on Mac ? I see nothing on
> their website.
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Any possibility of playing animation b y uuid?

[Brandon Husbands]

exactly. Now if you have a hud or something everytime  you wanna dynamically
update animations you have to push out a new version. But with textures and
sounds you can have the data there by uuid. Its a pain to have to produce
every animation in every object. This way even more secures the animation
where the customer does not even have the ani and it can be in the sim. or
what ever.
Giving them a copy only ani poses more risk than having it just coded by
asset id.

On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Thomas Shikami wrote:

> Am 17.04.2011 21:02, schrieb Brian McGroarty:
> > If reference by asset ID is important enough that you'd want to work
> > on it, lay out a proposal detailing what permissions could be baked
> > into an asset at upload time, and how the permissions could be honored
> > by all viewers. This would need to be done without the simulator
> > process having to parse the asset. Eventually we'll want static assets
> > served up on a CDN independently of the sim hosts, so it would be a
> > liability if the simulator process needed to download animation
> > assets.
> I'd like to have this neat feature implemented, which would ease
> programming of multipose furniture and group animation tools.
> If a script is in a task accompanied by animations, it should be able to
> call an LSL function like this:
> key local_anim_key = llGetLocalAnimationKey(string inventory);
>
> Once it has that key, it can pass it around to other scripts in the same
> simulator, either to poseballs or group animation client HUDs, which
> could then use the local_animation_keys like this:
> llStartAnimationByKey(key local_anim_key);
> llStopAnimation(string local_anim_key);
>
> those local_anim_keys would be only valid as long as the task in the
> simulator exists. All local_anim_keys would be invalidated, when the sim
> is rebooted.
>
> The permissions to animations would be the same like this, instead of
> requesting permissions from the agent to animate the avatar, the
> semantics would be permissions by proxy then, allowing an object, which
> can request permissions instead which would be automatically granted,
> either sitting or wearing.
>
> A way to keep the local_anim_key consistent for the same asset would be
> preferable if possible. That way animations could be banned reliably.
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[opensource-dev] Deploying External Editor with Windows build?

[Brandon Husbands]

Hey all i own the rights to the source for the LSLEditor.
It is publicly GPL but i can license it to ll under any terms they want.

Since the external editor feature is ebing added it would be a good idea to
deploy that with it.
whatcha think?
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Re: [opensource-dev] Deploying External Editor with Windows build?

[Brandon Husbands]

The editor does run under mono just fine.
This would be the windows option for the others just select a few.
Maybe have a list of a few that are in the installer as optional.

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Mike Chase <
mike.ch...@alternatemetaverse.com> wrote:

> Unless it can be made available cross platform I don't see a reason to
> favor one over another.  Personally I use Eclipse and LSLPlus and the
> internal editor for debug tweaks or quick hacks.
>
> Maybe an alongside download or a link on the dev page.  But I wouldn't
> think bundling it with the viewer makes sense unless the code is donated
> to the project and made to work cross platform. That is, it becomes the
> standard LSL editor for everyone.
>
> Mike
>
> On Thu, 2011-04-21 at 15:23 -0400, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> > On 2011-04-21 14:08, Brandon Husbands wrote:
> > > Hey all i own the rights to the source for the LSLEditor.
> > > It is publicly GPL but i can license it to ll under any terms they
> want.
> > >
> > > Since the external editor feature is ebing added it would be a good
> > > idea to deploy that with it.
> > > whatcha think?
> >
> > Your timing is amazing... I'd been meaning to talk to you about that...
> >
> > I confess to not having tried it yet - what say you, Community ?
> >
> > Without making any commitments about what will happen - should we make
> > it available as an optional component?
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[opensource-dev] OpenID based logins?

[Brandon Husbands]

Any thoughts to being able to link your SL account to an open id identity
server?

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Re: [opensource-dev] OpenID based logins?

[Brandon Husbands]

/// 
/// Returns the first day of the month of a given datetime.
/// 
/// The given datetime.
/// The first day of the month.
public static DateTime FirstDayOfMonth(DateTime dateTime)
{
return new DateTime(dateTime.Year, dateTime.Month, 1);
}

/// 
/// Returns the last day of the month for a given datetme.
/// 
/// The given datetime.
/// The last day of the month.
public static DateTime LastDayOfMonth(DateTime dateTime)
{
return new DateTime(dateTime.Year, dateTime.Month,
DateTime.DaysInMonth(dateTime.Year, dateTime.Month));
}
}


On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Yoz Grahame  wrote:

> We've long thought about something like this, but it's currently low on the
> priority list.
>
> For it to be really useful, it needs to work for viewer login; however,
> *that* needs web-triggered viewer login (as in, your authentication happens
> in an external browser window first, and then the viewer logs you straight
> in) otherwise you're forced to auth with your OpenID OP in the viewer
> window, and that's the classic Password Anti-Pattern*.
>
> Also, *if* we ever do this, we'd probably target Google and Facebook login
> first, though I *think* that Google Auth uses OpenID so we might get
> everything in one shot. (There's a multiple-orders-of-magnitude difference
> between those who'd use Google/Facebook auth and those who even know what
> OpenID is)
>
> In principle, I know of no reason why we wouldn't want this. We use OpenID
> and OAuth in various places already, and anything that makes it easier for
> people to authenticate securely is a Good Thing. However, we need to be
> convinced that there are major wins here before it can pushed up in the
> priorities.
>
> *
> http://www.designingsocialinterfaces.com/patterns/The_Password_Anti-Pattern
>
> On 21 April 2011 22:52, Brandon Husbands  wrote:
>
>> Any thoughts to being able to link your SL account to an open id identity
>> server?
>>
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Re: [opensource-dev] OpenID based logins?

[Brandon Husbands]

LOL its my catchall disclaimer

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Nicky Perian  wrote:

> This email is a private and confidential communication. Any use of email
> may be subject to the laws and regulations of the United States. You may not
> Repost, Distribute nor reproduce any content of this message.
>
> Shouldn't this trailer be dropped from your emails. Looks like you are
> posting stuff to be shared and all traffic here is publicly archived.
>
>
> ------
> *From:* Brandon Husbands 
> *To:* Yoz Grahame 
> *Cc:* opensource-dev 
> *Sent:* Thu, April 21, 2011 7:34:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] OpenID based logins?
>
> The reason i ask is i recently setup a oauth / openid server that uses  the
> hmacone time pass alg. basically allows for you to use the google
> authenticator app for 2 part authentication .
> aka oath (not oauth);
>
> basically i was thinking being able to use a authenticator for sl to
> further protect the account.
>
> http://code.google.com/p/google-authenticator/ has the phone apps.
>
>
> heres the c# code;
>
>
>
>
> public class HmacOneTimePassword
> {
> public const string DefaultAlgorithmName = "HMACSHA1";
>
> public const int DefaultNumberOfDigits = 6;
>
> private readonly HMAC hmac;
>
> private readonly int numberOfDigits;
>
> public HmacOneTimePassword(string secret)
>
> : this(DefaultAlgorithmName, secret, DefaultNumberOfDigits)
> {
> }
>
> public HmacOneTimePassword(string hmacAlgorithmName, string secret, 
> int numberOfDigits)
>
> {
> this.hmac = HMAC.Create(hmacAlgorithmName);
> this.hmac.Key = Encoding.ASCII.GetBytes(secret);
>
> this.numberOfDigits = numberOfDigits;
> }
>
> public virtual byte[] GetHash(long iterationNumber)
>
> {
> byte[] text = new byte[8];
> for (int i = text.Length - 1; i >= 0; i--)
>
> {
> text[i] = (byte)(iterationNumber & 0xff);
> iterationNumber >>= 8;
> }
>
> return this.hmac.ComputeHash(text);
>
> }
>
> public virtual string GetPassword(long iterationNumber)
>
> {
> byte[] hash = this.GetHash(iterationNumber);
>
> int offset = hash[hash.Length - 1] & 0xf;
>
>
> int binary = ((hash[offset] & 0x7f) << 24) | ((hash[offset + 1] & 
> 0xff) << 16) | ((hash[offset + 2] & 0xff) << 8) | (hash[offset + 3] & 0xff);
>
>
> int otp = binary % (int)Math.Pow(10, this.numberOfDigits);
>
> return otp.ToString(new string('0', this.numberOfDigits));
>
> }
> }
>
>
> public class TimeOneTimePassword : HmacOneTimePassword
>
> {
> public const int DefaultTimeStepSeconds = 30;
> public static readonly DateTime DefaultEpoch = 
> DateTimeHelper.UnixEpoch;
>
>
> private readonly DateTime epoch;
> private readonly int timeStep;
>
>
> public TimeOneTimePassword(string secret)
> : this(DefaultAlgorithmName, secret, DefaultNumberOfDigits, 
> DefaultEpoch, DefaultTimeStepSeconds)
>
> {
> }
>
> public TimeOneTimePassword(string hmacAlgorithmName, string secret, 
> int numberOfDigits, DateTime epoch, int timeStep)
>
> : base(hmacAlgorithmName, secret, numberOfDigits)
> {
> this.epoch = epoch;
> this.timeStep = timeStep;
>
> }
>
> public virtual string GetPassword()
> {
> return this.GetPassword(DateTime.UtcNow);
>
> }
>
> public virtual string GetPassword(DateTime iterationTime)
>
> {
> return base.GetPassword(this.GetIterationNumber(iterationTime));
> }
>
> public virtual long GetIterationNumber(DateTime iterationTime)
>
> {
> return (long)((iterationTime - this.epoch).TotalSeconds / 
> this.timeStep);
>
> }
> }
>
>
> public static class DateTimeHelper
>
> {
> /// 
> /// The base DateTime.
>
> /// 
> public static readonly DateTime UnixEpoch = new DateTime(1970, 1, 1);
>
>
> /// 
> /// Converts a unixtime into a DateTime.
>
> /// 
> /// The unixtime to convert.
>
> /// An equivalent datetime for the given unixtime.
>
> public static DateTi

Re: [opensource-dev] 3.0.0 Beta Candidate available

[Brandon Husbands]

I how does this constitute a major revision number?
On Aug 10, 2011 6:17 PM, "Lee ponzu"  wrote:
> The funny thing is that over in some forums there is the usual thread
about
> what comes after 2.9.x, which the knowing have explained *can* be 2.10,
> 2.11, and so on because the version does not comprise the parts of a
single
> decimal number.
>
> Then you guys screw us up by going to 3.x sheesh.
>
> ponzu
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) <
> o...@lindenlab.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> We have completed our latest build for 3.0.0 (238157) and it's available
>> for download here:
>>
>> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Downloading_test_builds#Beta_Candidates
>>
>> We'd love to have you try it out - doing the things you normally do in
>> Second Life and provide us with feedback. Once you've had a chance to try
>> this out, this build will become the next release into our beta channel.
We
>> have created a meta issue in jira for you to attach any bug you find
>> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-26648. In addition, if you should
>> discover a mesh issue, VWR bug creation now has a Mesh component
available.
>> Some important facts about this viewer:
>>
>>
>> - Mesh support. This build will allow you to upload and see meshes on
>> supported regions of aditi and agni (previous viewers will show meshes as
>> prims).
>> - Currently regions in the magnum and "Secondlife RC Mesh" channels
>> have mesh support.
>> - On supported regions where you have build permissions, mesh upload
>> can be accessed via the Build->Upload->Model... option. A L$ fee will be
>> charged for uploads, with the size of the fee determined by the
complexity
>> of the model.
>> - Your account must be mesh enabled before uploading; the requirements
>> for this are that your account has payment info on file, and that you
have
>> completed a questionnaire related to intellectual property issues as they
>> apply to mesh. If you are not yet mesh enabled, the model upload dialog
will
>> provide a link to the questionnaire.
>> - See http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh for more information about
>> mesh.
>>
>>
>> Thank you for your interest in making our viewer experience better. If
you
>> have any questions, please feel free to either post them in our Mesh
Forums
>> http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/bd-p/Mesh or join us at our
>> office hours
>>
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation,_Mesh_Import,_Scripting_User_Group
.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Policy Changes

[Brandon Husbands]

Holy...
That's a huge policy change.

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Nalates Urriah  wrote:

> Does this new policy essentially eliminate the reason for the existence of
> 3rd party viewers:
>
> 2.k : You must not provide any feature that alters the shared experience
> of the virtual world in any way not provided by or accessible to users of
> the latest released Linden Lab viewer.
>
>
> http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Viewer/Third-Party-Viewer-Policy-Changes/m-p/1399141
>
> This seems to say all changes can be submitted to LL but not implemented
> until and unless LL approves them and adds them to the SL viewer. Am I
> mistaken?
>
> --
> Nalates Urriah (SL AV)
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer Policy Changes

[Brandon Husbands]

Guess its how you interpreted it wheww.

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Cinder Roxley wrote:

>  Yes, you're mistaken. The key phrase there is "alters the shared
> experience of the virtual world".  A tpv can alter individual user's
> experiences, (UI, build tools, controls, graphics enhancements) but not the
> shared experience of the world.  IE, exposing information such as the
> friend online visibility of *other users*.
>
> Kind regards,
> -Cinder
>
>
> On 2/24/2012 4:44 PM, Nalates Urriah wrote:
>
> Does this new policy essentially eliminate the reason for the existence of
> 3rd party viewers:
>
> 2.k : You must not provide any feature that alters the shared experience
> of the virtual world in any way not provided by or accessible to users of
> the latest released Linden Lab viewer.
>
>
> http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Viewer/Third-Party-Viewer-Policy-Changes/m-p/1399141
>
> This seems to say all changes can be submitted to LL but not implemented
> until and unless LL approves them and adds them to the SL viewer. Am I
> mistaken?
>
> --
> Nalates Urriah (SL AV)
>
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] SL Wiki locked down ?

[Brandon Husbands]

Or get the community to help police it Locking down should be a last
resort.

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 3:28 AM, Henri Beauchamp  wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 17:08:12 -0700, Brian McGroarty wrote:
>
> > Please create a support ticket or ping Oz after one of the TPV meetings
> if
> > you would like to request edit access on the wiki. There is a
> ridiculously
> > persistent party who uses numerous wikis to promote fake Microsoft
> support
> > phone numbers. Given the fraud or malware potential, we couldn't let that
> > keep returning.
>
> Thank you. I created a ticket in the "web login issue" category, pointing
> at this thread in the web archive of this list.
>
> I totally understand and support your concerns however, may I suggest
> that your webmaster creates an SQL ASCII export of the (clean) Wiki
> database and 'grep' it for all contributor names, then whitelist them ?
> This should not require more than one (at worst two) man.hours of work.
>
> TPV developers are not the only contributors to the Wiki, and you are
> loosing valuable contributions by keeping the Wiki locked down in read-
> only mode for everyone, including legit/old/well known contributors...
>
> Alternatively, you might ask your webmaster to add a banner to all Wiki
> pages for logged-in Wiki users, explaining that the Wiki is locked down
> and that they should open a support ticket to get it enabled in write
> mode for their account (of course, the support team might get swamped
> with requests, thus why I think the contributors grepping+whitelisting
> is a better solution).
>
> Best regards,
>
> Henri.
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[opensource-dev] Doxygen For SnowGlobe 2.0

[Brandon Husbands]

 http://dimentox.com/sg2dox/  snowglobe2 doxygen
 full zip http://www.dimentox.com/html.zip
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Re: [opensource-dev] Eclipse Guru's

[Brandon Husbands]

LSL plus has one fatal flaw...
No brace completion matching.

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Neil Canham  wrote:

> I'd second the need for LSL editing and scripting improvements in the
> client:
>
> 1. Autocomplete in existing LSL editor
> 2. Expand/collapse fuctions/events
> 3. Integrated debugger!
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> On Wed 03/03/10 3:03 PM , Jonathan Irvin djfoxys...@gmail.com sent:
>
> I do often hear complaints and wishes for new build tools, what about us
> LSL devs?  Some things I would like are:
>
>1. Better IDE in SL Viewer
>2. API for compiling in LSL using various IDEs already available
>3. Going along with #1, as suggested, integrating Eclipse or equivalent
>in SL.
>4. LSL Wiki built into the editor
>5. Detachable script editing window (To develop on one monitor & test
>in the other)
>6. Entity relationship diagram system in SL viewer for visual coding.
>
>
>
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[opensource-dev] Standalone indra.y and indra.l

[Brandon Husbands]

Does anyone have a standalone version of the lexer and parser?
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Re: [opensource-dev] New topic: Snowglobe 2.0 way forward?

[Brandon Husbands]

I have been polishing it up quite a bit with the toxicviewer...
Reverting things like the camera floater etc... Next is making the things in
the side bat detachable.

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Tori C.  wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 1:26 PM, lufpleh  wrote:
> > Would like to know what's the status of the translation feature in
> > Snowglobe.
> > Was that project completed, is it going to be imported to the main
> viewer?
> > Would it be possible to extend it to translate IM or was that idea
> rejected?
>
> It could use a little more polish. Translations need a different color
> or something to distinguish them from the original chat, parens aren't
> doing the job. That one just caused some confusion on the scripters
> list. Error reporting could possibly be a little clearer, the "(?)"
> dummy translation in there now is a little mysterious for the end
> user. It wouldn't hurt to have a small cache, even a few lines, to
> avoid repetitive lookups in spammy situations. One last thing I
> noticed is that chat often gets "JRandom Avatar: lol (lol)" - maybe
> the translation could be dropped if the same text comes out the other
> end?
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[opensource-dev] LSL editor Open Sourced

[Brandon Husbands]

FYI

https://sourceforge.net/projects/lsleditor/

It was released to the FOSS community yesterday!

YAY!
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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the TPV

[Brandon Husbands]

I do not add much to the list.. But I will say... Mr lane, what ever your
problem is with Emerald... You should probably let it go.  This blatant
flaming and trolling does not help the open source community. Your actions
and flames are actually a hindrance to the community as a whole. You see i
say community as we typically work together to make things better etc.

It Seems you mostly wish to sabotage and wreck havoc. It is counter
productive and plain rude.
SO i must request... Either take this offline directloy with the people you
have a problem with or quit posting this crap as I do not want to have to
read it. So as they say either *** or get off the pot So either become a
active positive contributing member of this community or go away. I am quite
fed up with the Trolls and will no longer personally tolerate it. So please
go stroke your ego else where and lets get back to discussing code and
things that actually matter to us besides your grievance against emerald.

Dim.


On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 1:00 AM, Discrete Dreamscape <
discrete.dreamsc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'd like to remark that the information you found is just the data of the
> ModularSystems website, and all of the other viewer directory listings look
> about the same as Emerald's. The actual real-life name(s) of people involved
> aren't required to be publicly viewable, but Linden Lab does have them.
> Also, consider the possibility that .sl was chosen as a domain because it
> could be an abbreviation for SecondLife. Cute, eh?
>
> I seriously doubt anyone with malicious intent is going to bother trying to
> register their viewer in the directory.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Boy Lane  wrote:
>
>> We certainly should follow the bright example of Emerald / Modularsystems,
>> where you Discrete are a member of. A pseudo company set up and owned
>> by known banned griefer JCool aka who revived his banned account(s) under
>> the names of Fractured Crystal/Fractured Modularsystems.
>>
>> Back to their registration. JCool set up Modularsystems. A mailbox company
>> with the following contact details:
>>
>> http://modularsystems.sl/
>> P.O. Box 5702
>> West Columbia, South Carolina 29171-5702
>> United States
>> administra...@modularsystems.sl
>>
>> That is an untraceable anonymized entity without any name attached to it
>> and
>> unknown legal status, registered with a domain name in Sierra Leone, a
>> country
>> that does not even have a WHOIS.
>>
>> This information was used to register and self-certify Emerald in the
>> Viewer
>> Directory.
>>
>> As I as a legally uniformed hobby programmer without commercial interest
>> can
>> evaluate this situation and validity of the Emerald listing, it is meant
>> to
>> circumvent
>> any means of the viewer directory to hold a developer accountable for
>> their
>> viewers. It is also meant to avoid any possible litigation from LL in case
>> indeed
>> some malicious code may be found in their viewer(s). Besides Emerald,
>> Modularsystems
>> also develops and uses a malicious viewer named "Onyx" that is in clear
>> violation of
>> ToS/TPV.
>>
>> So no, Discrete, all these things completely contradict your argument. As
>> shown a
>> listing in Lindens viewer directory doesn't add a single piece of safety
>> or
>> security. To
>> look for a legitimate viewer the Alternate Viewer list in the community
>> edited SL Wiki
>> is a better place to, for the simple reason malicious clients may not
>> easily
>> slip in as
>> this is possible with self-certification. A blacklist is a good thing and
>> could at least
>> complement Viewer Directory and Alternate Viewers list. But of course it
>> would
>> include most of the malicious viewer from the key developers behind
>> Modularsystems
>> which obviously you try to avoid.
>>
>> Additional question to Linden Lab: How can for repeated ToS violations
>> permanently
>> banned people just circumvent that ban by creating new accounts as many of
>> the
>> Emerald developers did? Is it money spent for SL that counts rather than
>> ToS?
>>
>> Boy
>>
>> - Original Message - > Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 16:39:16 -0400
>> > From: Discrete Dreamscape 
>> > Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the TPV
>> > directory ?
>> > To: Tigro Spottystripes 
>> > Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>> > Message-ID:
>> > 
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >
>> > This discussion seems to have been created with misleading intentions.
>> >
>> > Because some TPV creators don't want to reveal any personal information
>> > about themselves, they can't be posted on the TPV directory, and because
>> > of
>> > this, it's understandable they might view the directory as unfair. But,
>> > this
>> > doesn't strike me as a valid reason to criticize the list.
>> >
>> > It's certainly valid to say that the viewers on the list are not
>> > absolutely
>> > trustworthy unless a full code audit is done, but even then, do you
>> really
>> > know that wh

Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the TPV

[Brandon Husbands]

My credentials are not up for discussion. Most in Second Life are well aware
of who I am and what I stand for. Additionally most creditable and active
community members know my contributions and projects. Though i could be
mistaken in the extent to which this information travels. If I am wrong in
my assumption then perhaps we can use a different forum or venue to discuss
these things.

Now on to your questions let us take a look at what you are saying and
implying.

1 The company.
Please show me what Government databases you looked in that also covers DBAs
and assumed operating names, You place accusations here without proper proof
nor justification.

2. The bans you mention.
As far as I know, Linden Labs does not discuss with anyone outside of its
company and the people which they take action upon the conditions relevant
information regarding disciplinary actions and bans. So unless you are a
Linden or have been one in the past i Highly doubt that the information is
truly factual.

3. Are you accusing Linden Labs of pandering to the almighty dollar instead
of standing up for the company integrity on their own list? Sir, that is a
huge accusation. I ask again where is your factual information that has
brought you to this conclusion? I would honestly say that this is indeed not
a true thing you state and is borderline slander against the very company
which you supposedly are a third party contribute for.

4. The toxic viewer source is posted. If you care to look at it here is the
link.
https://dcs.sourcerepo.com/dcs/tox_view/ feel free to look at it and take
what ever changes you see that you like. Be warry as its just a general repo
for my dir i work in.  The Voice component is not included in the installer
btw. Furthermore the Toxic Viewer is no longer in active development as it
was something that was asked of me to do by my wife. And trust me you do not
wanna go there. Youll just have to trust me on that. So in all honesty its a
null point.

Now on to my own conclusions regarding your communications.
I really do not have much more to say to you in this subject. But I will
offer some advice in regards to point 3. As I tell my kids. "You do not ***
where you eat and you do not bite the hand which feeds you. Now its not my
place to parent you nor is it my place to tell you what to do.. I only offer
this advice as a human being that is concerned with the direction this
discussion is going.

So in a nutshell I do not believe and will safely assume that no one on this
list thinks that this is a proper forum for this type of
accusation/discussion. May i give you one more piece of advise. Have you
tried the proper channels for this type of inquisition? If I am not mistaken
the url is support.secondlife.com. Once your on that page you can select new
ticket/issue. That would probably be the best avanue to question these
things. On a side note if you need assistance filing a ticket I would be
more than happy to assist.

Dim.

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:12 AM, Boy Lane  wrote:

>  Sorry, seems I have to correct myself. Mr. Brandon Husbands seems to be
> Dimentox Travanti. Creator of the "Toxic Viewer". A project that violates
> GPL by not providing sources as well as distributing non-redistributable
> components such as the Vivox voice packages.
>
> This adds very well to your credibility Mr. Brandon Husbands :).
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Boy Lane 
> *To:* Brandon Husbands  ; Discrete 
> Dreamscape
> *Cc:* opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> *Sent:* Friday, April 30, 2010 3:57 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the TPV
>
> I don't know who you are Mr. Brandon Husbands, you are certainly not a
> viewer developer but a fly-by-night who want's to add some oil to the drama
> fire. It does not really matter.
>
> I stated facts here, not flames.
>
> Modularsytems is a "company" with a legal status we dont't know, created
> and owned by a person with permanently banned accounts due to ToS
> violations.
>
> Modularsystems is registered as this entity in the viewer directory.
>
> Modularsystems develops and uses malicious viewers, namely "Onyx", with
> several other malicious projects done by key developers such as Fractured,
> Phox, Skills or Cryo. All who had their accounts permanently banned for ToS
> violations.
>
> I asked a legitimate question to LL, to repeat it once again: How can for
> repeated ToS violations permanently banned people just circumvent that ban
> by creating new accounts as many of the Emerald developers did? Is it money
> spent for SL that counts rather than ToS?
>
> As you haven't read my posting, rather add irrelevant accusations in your
> own posting, Mr. Brandon Husband, that are supposedly to confuse the reader
> and discredit legitimate questions, lI can

Re: [opensource-dev] Oh, the drama. (was: Viewer blacklist...)

[Brandon Husbands]

I agree. Thats what i have been trying to say... sighs... Can we get back to
discussing code now?

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:46 AM, Lance Corrimal
wrote:

> for crying out loud, could you guys PLEASE move the remainder of that
> "discussion" to a more suited medium, the "Under the bridge" forum on
> second
> citizen comes to mind.
> ... where the trolls are.
> http://www.secondcitizen.net/Forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18
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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the TPV

[Brandon Husbands]

Sighs.

Last post I am going to word this very simple like.
GPL.  the actual locations are different. There no page nor www site for the
viewer itself. Nor is it a active thing. You have issues with this... Please
contact:   by all
means.

Since your insisting on the credentials. I can hand you my resume if you
like.  You said do not have any idea who I am nor what I do. Lets see i have
contributed to many FOSS projects and have plenty of my own. Recently the
LSL editor which was closed source was given to me by the copyright holder.
I have open sourced it. There are plenty of other projects which are open
source which I contribute. I also created DCS and have a active user base of
over 150k in SL and since your so fond of if a company is real i assure you
my company is.  If you like I can put you in contact with my lawyers to
discuss your accusations and slander which you have recently brought up
about myself and my works and such.   So please don't go barking at me about
this or that as i do not have time for your petty games and epeen stroking.

Plainly what it boils down to is you have a beef with emerald. Sorry I can
not help you with this. But this is no place for your attacks on it.

To put it in terms which i believe you might understand. drop it dude. No
one wants to hear your crying on this list. I only chimed in cause to be
honest your whines annoyed me.

You are barking up the wrong tree here sir. So please cease and desist so we
can get back to productive discussions.

I will not reply anymore as I have contributed to this chaos way to much
now. You can feel free to contact me in world or via email for further
discussion or if you choose to continue with false accusations we can handle
this in a lawful way but by any means his list is not the place so I will
ask you one more time.. Please stop.

To the rest of you I am personally sorry that you have to go through this.
But I can not allow these type of accusations to go unanswered. I really am
sorry that you have to go through this garbage.

Dim.




On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:49 AM, Boy Lane  wrote:

>  Your credentials are very much up for discussion if you engage in here. 
> Firstly,
> you do not link to your sources where you post your binary, that is in the
> alternate viewer directory. A posting here in the mailing list is not
> sufficient. As such you are violating GPL. You are also violating
> redistribution licenses by distributing the vivox voice components in the
> same place. But that's not what this whole thing is about.
>
> As for the points you brought up, I'm not the one supposed to answer
> anything in regards of legal status, registration, permanent bans, newly
> created accounts etc. of Modularsystems and their key developers. I wrote
> what is publically available information. As this is limited I asked the
> question here about this because I do not know the details and I'd like to
> get an answer how this is possible and why permanently banned accounts can
> circumvent that ban by just creating new avatars.
>
> The ToS violations and bans are verifyable by the very own statement of
> JCool/Fractured, also the acknowledgment of the malicious Onyx viewer:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRbV9SIbdCA
>
> Again, these are facts people should be aware of. Henri raised a legitimate
> qestion about creation of a blacklist of known malicious viewers, instead of
> relying on FUD spread by LL about the validity of listings in the viewer
> directory. Everyone can list a viewer here, self certify, and residents
> believe this viewer is legitimate. Which is nothing but wrong. LL has
> neither the resources nor capacity to verify every single viewer entry.
>
> In addition they also stated clearly that the Viewer Directory is meant as
> a marketing tool for those who need the publicity it may create. What I
> think it only creates is a false sense of security, and it will be only a
> question of time until a malicious project will be listed, and be it for the
> LULZ of some script kiddie.
>
> I have nothing against you personally, but I have serious concerns that
> made me stopping developing viewers. Even though they never had any
> malicious features at all.
>
> Boy
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Brandon Husbands 
> *To:* Boy Lane 
> *Cc:* Discrete Dreamscape  ;
> opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> *Sent:* Friday, April 30, 2010 4:29 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the TPV
>
> My credentials are not up for discussion. Most in Second Life are well
> aware of who I am and what I stand for. Additionally most creditable and
> active community members know my contributions and projects. Though i could
> be mistaken in the extent to which this information travels. If I am wrong
> in my assumption then perhaps 

Re: [opensource-dev] Oh, the drama. (was: Viewer blacklist...)

[Brandon Husbands]

Perhaps patching open sim to use the new way? probably the best route to go
as it needs to keep up with com changes in the main viewer.

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 4:04 AM, Lance Corrimal
wrote:

> Am Freitag, 30. April 2010 10:47:27 schrieb Brandon Husbands:
> > I agree. Thats what i have been trying to say... sighs... Can we get back
> > to discussing code now?
>
> with pleasure.
>
>
> any ideas about making SG 1.4 fully opensim-compatible by adding the "old"
> way
> to fetch map tiles?
>
>
> bye,
> LC
>
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:46 AM, Lance Corrimal
> >
> > wrote:
> > > for crying out loud, could you guys PLEASE move the remainder of that
> > > "discussion" to a more suited medium, the "Under the bridge" forum on
> > > second
> > > citizen comes to mind.
> > > ... where the trolls are.
> > > http://www.secondcitizen.net/Forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18
> > > ___
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Re: [opensource-dev] icesphere

[Brandon Husbands]

Interesting,
I am actually decoupling the UI using qt and viewer2 to accomplish the same
thing.
Dimentox

On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Dzonatas Sol  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Here is the new site:
>
> http://icyspherical.blogspot.com
>
> And, you can follow me on twitter:
>
> http://twitter.com/Dzonatas_Sol
>
> Slowly have gotten this organized more over last few months. If things
> continue as they are now I should be able to be more active again.
>
>
>
> Robert Martin wrote:
> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Dzonatas_Sol/Icesphere
> > seems to be what website is availible
> >
> > hint for the developer
> > 1 could you please get a website for this and not have your stuff
> > scattered across 5 different sites
> >
> > 2 a patched build would be a good thing
> >
> >
> >
>
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[opensource-dev] newview should be a diff lisc

[Brandon Husbands]

if you really wanna help out the community and have advancement tale newview
seperate it and allow it to contain changes that can be closed source.
the rest of the projects/libs should be lgpl. just my two cents.

Anyone wanting to have a closed source viewer has to basically rewrite
newview at this time.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Malicious payloads in third-party viewers: is the policy worth anything?

[Brandon Husbands]

As a X-emerald Dev (I am Dimentox) Most of the stuff people are saying that
is going on or has gone on.. Most of the other devs had no idea. We just did
our parts to make the viewer better. I left due to the fact that i did not
have time to continue to work on the project.  Unfortunately a few bad seeds
ruin the apple.

On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Will  wrote:

> Then this is confusing, to be listed you have to within the policy
> "approved" for lack of a better word:
> Someone please clarify-
>
> "If a Third-Party Viewer or your use or distribution of it violates
> this Policy or any Linden Lab policy, your permission to access
> Second Life using the Third-Party Viewer shall terminate
>  automatically."
>
> To me it sounds like any viewer not on the list is not approved and that
> means by their own statement it will not be allowed to connect.
>
> --
> From: "Gareth Nelson" 
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 4:10 PM
> To: "Will" 
> Cc: "Lance Corrimal" ;
> 
> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Malicious payloads in third-party viewers: is
> the policy worth anything?
>
> > There isn't anything in the policy itself which says you must be
> > listed, there is however a note on the directory page warning users to
> > be wary of unlisted viewers.
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 8:54 PM, Will  wrote:
> >> hmm ok I may be wrong but remember a rush to update viewers from the
> >> approved list, didn't look over my shoulder and just for good
> >> housekeeping I
> >> don't venture from approved viewers.  Seriously hope you are wrong or
> >> there
> >> will be little to no control over who gets to connect.
> >>
> >> --
> >> From: "Gareth Nelson" 
> >> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 3:25 PM
> >> To: "Will" 
> >> Cc: "Lance Corrimal" ;
> >> 
> >> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Malicious payloads in third-party viewers:
> >> is
> >> the policy worth anything?
> >>
> >>> As I understand it, you don't need to be in the list, just comply with
> >>> the policy.
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Will  wrote:
> 
>  They may be waiting to make a formal announcement before they pull the
>  plug
>  on the viewer- didn't they make a policy of not allowing any viewer to
>  connect that wasn't on the list?  I think so-
> 
>  --
>  From: "Gareth Nelson" 
>  Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 2:50 PM
>  To: "Lance Corrimal" 
>  Cc: 
>  Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Malicious payloads in third-party
>  viewers:
>  is
>  the policy worth anything?
> 
> > As they shouldn't be!
> > Although one does wonder whether users are now at risk of being
> banned
> > if they keep using it
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 7:01 PM, Lance Corrimal
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Am Sunday 22 August 2010 schrieb L. Christopher Bird:
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Jesse Barnett  >
> >>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > Ignoring this and giving the all clear with no other action taken
> >>> > on the part of Linden Lab will instead demonstrate that the TPV
> >>> > is a worthless scrap of paper.
> >>>
> >>> Correction, it only exist on paper if printed. The proper phrase is
> >>> "a worthless configuration of pixels"
> >>>
> >>> The TPVP makes it clear what the consequences are for breaking the
> >>> policy. 8c says:
> >>>
> >>> "If a Third-Party Viewer or your use or distribution of it violates
> >>> this Policy or any Linden Lab policy, your permission to access
> >>> Second Life using the Third-Party Viewer shall terminate
> >>> automatically. You acknowledge and agree that we may require you
> >>> to stop using or distributing a Third-Party Viewer for accessing
> >>> Second Life if we determine that there is a violation."
> >>>
> >>> So either the lab will enforce this, or they will say "Well you are
> >>> so popular you can screw around all you want".  Is Emerald the
> >>> viewer "too big to fail"?
> >>>
> >>> -- ZenMondo
> >>
> >> I just looked and emerald's not in the tpv directory anymore.
> >> ___
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> > Printcrime by Cory Doctrow
> >
> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
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Re: [opensource-dev] Plugins/Modular architecture

[Brandon Husbands]

What id like to see is the viewer be distributed as a library. And we can
init our own project with can create the window etc and setup the ui..
Since you went lgpl you should have a compile option for a lib with a
established interface. Otherwise lgpl is kinda blargh.

On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Ann Otoole  wrote:

> Has this project code been brought forward to Visual Studio 2010?
>
> --
> *From:* Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) 
> *To:* opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> *Sent:* Fri, September 3, 2010 9:32:54 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] Plugins/Modular architecture
>
>   On 2010-09-03 9:14, Lawson English wrote:
> >On 9/2/10 8:13 AM, Talia Tokugawa wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> I know this has been suggested before as friends have suggested it.
> >> Why not make the viewer more Modular? Introduce a plugin architecture.
> >> Allow any user to "build" their own client that fits their needs and
> >> requirements.
> >>
> > Its a HUGE undertaking to do that. LL wasn't willing to tackle the issue
> > directly years ago and they probably don't have the resources to do it
> > now. It would have to be a community-lead effort and I'm not sure that
> > developers are willing to invest the time to refactor the viewer at that
> > level unless LL will be willing to seriously consider using the
> > resulting re-architectured viewer.
>
> Try us...
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display Names open source

[Brandon Husbands]

That would be nice.

On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 2:54 AM, Henri Beauchamp  wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Sep 2010 12:15:08 -0700, CG Linden wrote:
>
> > And the latest builds are available via this permalink:
> >
> >
> http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/viewer-identity/latest.html
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) <
> o...@lindenlab.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >  We had some technical difficulties with getting it properly prepared
> > > for publication (resolved with the able help of Aimee), but the source
> > > for the Display Names branch is now available at:
> > >
> > > http://hg.secondlife.com/viewer-identity
> > >
> > > It is worthy of notice that this is the first Project release under our
> > > new development methodology - source code and a running viewer
> available
> > > from an internal Linden Lab team other than Snowstorm.
>
> Any chance to get a single diff between the base sources of the viewer
> version that was used to implement display names, and the fully
> display-names
> implemented viewer sources ?... Or to get a hold on the sources for the
> viewer
> on which the display-name viewer was based ?... That would be a great help
> for porting this feature to TPVs...
>
> Henri.
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[opensource-dev] Snowglobe 1.5 + Phoenix Doxygen + full Graphs

[Brandon Husbands]

http://dimentox.com/phoenixdox/

Snowglobe 1.5 + Phoenix Doxygen + full Graphs

YAY!

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[opensource-dev] Client side scripting.

[Brandon Husbands]

Was looking at this it would be really simple and really powerful including
new ui's and stuff.
You could expose what llclass methods you want and create new ones.

Wrap that up into a mono dll that they just use the name space of so they
dont have to bother with any extern code syntax.

http://www.mono-project.com/Embedding_Mono

Would bring a whole new slew of people to the tables with c# skills.

Also allowing for features and ui stuff kinda like LUA and World of Warcraft
where they expose the functions they wish to provide to the user.

You would run in the lowest priv level. And do like a andorid app does when
they install it it says what they are requesting access to do and the user
has to grant that.


Maybe a day or two worths of work to get something going with basic interop.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Client side scripting.

[Brandon Husbands]

I Am going to put together a test build this week with it and see what it
can do and how well it works.

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Ricky  wrote:

> Hehe, client-side scripting has been in the works for a while now.  At
> least one dev has a working model, (Dzonatas Sol in SNOW-375 I
> believe,) and there has been loads of discussion on the idea on this
> very forum.  Just got interrupted by one of the many "big" events
> that's happened since mid-March... (Good reading there!  Plenty of
> arguments for various methods of implementation.)
>
> From what I remember, LL had been working on a system as well, but I
> don't remember any confirmation..  Oz, is/was such a project in place?
>  If so, any idea what it's progress is and what team is working on it?
>  According to my mail history, it may have been called "Firefly".
>
> Ricky
> Cron Stardust
>
> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Brandon Husbands 
> wrote:
> > Was looking at this it would be really simple and really powerful
> including
> > new ui's and stuff.
> > You could expose what llclass methods you want and create new ones.
> >
> > Wrap that up into a mono dll that they just use the name space of so they
> > dont have to bother with any extern code syntax.
> >
> > http://www.mono-project.com/Embedding_Mono
> >
> > Would bring a whole new slew of people to the tables with c# skills.
> >
> > Also allowing for features and ui stuff kinda like LUA and World of
> Warcraft
> > where they expose the functions they wish to provide to the user.
> >
> > You would run in the lowest priv level. And do like a andorid app does
> when
> > they install it it says what they are requesting access to do and the
> user
> > has to grant that.
> >
> >
> > Maybe a day or two worths of work to get something going with basic
> interop.
> >
> >
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Re: [opensource-dev] J2C fast decoder

[Brandon Husbands]

Phoenix uses a newer openjpeg and its static compiled might want to
check.its source

On Sep 12, 2010 10:58 PM, "Sheet Spotter"  wrote:

 Some comments on SNOW-361 (Upgrade to OpenJPEG v2) suggested that changing
to version 2 of OpenJPEG might improve performance, while other comments
suggested it might not support progressive decoding.

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-361



Is an upgrade to OpenJPEG v2 under active development?





Sheet Spotter


 --

*From:* opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com [mailto:
opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] *On Behalf Of *Philippe (Merov)
Bossut
*Sent:* September 9, 2010 10:35 PM
*To:* Nicky Fullton
*Cc:* opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
*Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] J2C fast decoder





Hi Nicky,

As it happens, I've been working on instrumenting the code to add metric
gathering f...

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Re: [opensource-dev] Compiling Snowglobe

[Brandon Husbands]

Vs 2008 is actuality broke for the viewer due to cmake errors a bunch of if
calls look only for vs 2005 use 2005.

On Sep 14, 2010 8:32 AM, "malachi"  wrote:

i am a windows 7 user using visual studio 2005 and i installed my own
boost library from that site. snowglobe compiles with 0 errors. though i
did copy and paste every single lib and dll file from boost to the library
folder of the client folder lol. but still no errors mate.


On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 07:54:30 -0400, Robin Cornelius
 wrote:

> On Tue,...

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[opensource-dev] Landmarks on login?

[Brandon Husbands]

viewer 2, Why ohh why on log in is it grabbing all landmarks then getting
region handles for them?

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Re: [opensource-dev] Landmarks on login?

[Brandon Husbands]

Requesting region handles etc...

llLandmark.cpp
line 164

void LLLandmark::registerCallbacks(LLMessageSystem* msg)
{
msg->setHandlerFunc("RegionIDAndHandleReply",
&processRegionIDAndHandle);
}

called from
llstartup.cpp
line 1649
LLLandmark::registerCallbacks(msg);


Call Stack When it starts fetching

 secondlife-bin.exe!LLAssetStorage::getAssetData(LLUUID uuid={...},
LLAssetType::EType type=AT_LANDMARK, void (LLVFS *, const LLUUID &,
LLAssetType::EType, void *, int, int)* callback=0x004341ee, void *
user_data=0x, int is_priority=0x)  Line 472 + 0xb2 bytes
C++
 secondlife-bin.exe!LLLandmarkList::getAsset(const LLUUID &
asset_uuid={...}, boost::function cb={...})
Line 92C++

secondlife-bin.exe!LLFirstAgentParcelLandmark::operator()(LLInventoryCategory
* cat=0x, LLInventoryItem * item=0x134fc288)  Line 148 + 0x3e
bytesC++
 secondlife-bin.exe!LLInventoryModel::collectDescendentsIf(const LLUUID
& id={...}, LLDynamicArray,32> &
cats={...}, LLDynamicArray,32> &
items={...}, int include_trash=0x, LLInventoryCollectFunctor &
add={...}, int follow_folder_links=0x)  Line 532 + 0x13 bytesC++

secondlife-bin.exe!fetch_landmarks(LLDynamicArray,32>
& cats={...}, LLDynamicArray,32> &
items={...}, LLInventoryCollectFunctor & add={...})  Line 179C++
 secondlife-bin.exe!LLLandmarkActions::hasParcelLandmark()  Line 203 +
0x11 bytesC++
 secondlife-bin.exe!LLLocationInputCtrl::updateAddLandmarkButton()  Line
989 + 0x5 bytesC++
 secondlife-bin.exe!LLRemoveLandmarkObserver::changed(unsigned int
mask=0x)  Line 145C++

secondlife-bin.exe!LLInventoryModel::notifyObservers(std::basic_string,std::allocator
> service_name="")  Line 1088C++
 secondlife-bin.exe!LLInventoryModel::buildParentChildMap()  Line
1969C++
 secondlife-bin.exe!idle_startup()  Line 1639C++
 secondlife-bin.exe!LLAppViewer::idle()  Line 3549 + 0x5 bytesC++
 secondlife-bin.exe!LLAppViewer::mainLoop()  Line 1067C++
 secondlife-bin.exe!WinMain(HINSTANCE__ * hInstance=0x0040,
HINSTANCE__ * hPrevInstance=0x, char * lpCmdLine=0x001d7734, int
nCmdShow=0x0001)  Line 178C++
 secondlife-bin.exe!__tmainCRTStartup()  Line 589 + 0x1d bytesC


On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) 
wrote:

> Have you got a JIRA, or better yet, a pointer to the code in question?
> Sounds like it's worth investigating.
>
>Q
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 5:51 PM, Brandon Husbands wrote:
>
> >
> > viewer 2, Why ohh why on log in is it grabbing all landmarks then getting
> region handles for them?
> >
> > --
> >
> ---
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Re: [opensource-dev] Landmarks on login?

[Brandon Husbands]

heres the magic

landmark.cpp
line 170 starts

void LLLandmark::requestRegionHandle(
LLMessageSystem* msg,
const LLHost& upstream_host,
const LLUUID& region_id,
region_handle_callback_t callback)
{
if(region_id.isNull())
{
// don't bother with checking - it's 0.
lldebugs << "requestRegionHandle: null" << llendl;
if(callback)
{
const U64 U64_ZERO = 0;
callback(region_id, U64_ZERO);
}
}
else
{
if(region_id == mLocalRegion.first)
{
lldebugs << "requestRegionHandle: local" << llendl;
if(callback)
{
callback(region_id, mLocalRegion.second);
}
}
else
{
region_map_t::iterator it = mRegions.find(region_id);
if(it == mRegions.end())
{
lldebugs << "requestRegionHandle: upstream" << llendl;
if(callback)
{
region_callback_map_t::value_type vt(region_id,
callback);
sRegionCallbackMap.insert(vt);
}
lldebugs << "Landmark requesting information about: "
 << region_id << llendl;
msg->newMessage("RegionHandleRequest");
msg->nextBlock("RequestBlock");
msg->addUUID("RegionID", region_id);
msg->sendReliable(upstream_host);
}
else if(callback)
{
// we have the answer locally - just call the callack.
lldebugs << "requestRegionHandle: ready" << llendl;
callback(region_id, (*it).second.mRegionHandle);
}
}
}

// As good a place as any to expire old entries.
expireOldEntries();
}

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) 
wrote:

> Have you got a JIRA, or better yet, a pointer to the code in question?
> Sounds like it's worth investigating.
>
>Q
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 5:51 PM, Brandon Husbands wrote:
>
> >
> > viewer 2, Why ohh why on log in is it grabbing all landmarks then getting
> region handles for them?
> >
> > --
> >
> ---
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[opensource-dev] Possible Voice morphing Caused random Crash. VWR-23066

[Brandon Husbands]

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23066

Was odd just sitting here reading mail in debug and boom crash!

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Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Brandon Husbands]

You could technically watermark the images and have the display code just
remove that mark.
If it cant find the mark its considered corrupt.

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 6:45 PM, JB Hancroft  wrote:

> >  This viewer would get blacklisted before it ever got out the door.
>
> Because... it would be non-compliant in some way?
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Dale Mahalko  wrote:
>
>> I just don't have the motivation for it myself, but I would really
>> like it if a 3rd party developer would gut out LL's texture cache and
>> eliminate the VFS, and replace them with a simple disk cache that
>> writes all assets in raw format, with files named by UUID on disk.
>>
>> * Decode all JPEG2000's once, to all levels of mipmap scale, and write
>> the raw RGB mipmaps to disk as individual files (UUID+mipscale.bmp),
>> discarding the source JP2's.
>>
>> * Decode all OGGs to WAV once, and write the raw WAV to disk,
>> discarding the OGGs.
>>
>> * Oh, and don't ever delete any assets until your dedicated 2 terabyte
>> cache drive is 99.99% full.
>>
>> * Let the local operating system deal with the file caching. If you
>> have 4+ gig of system memory, let the OS manage it for caching
>> frequently accessed world data.
>>
>> This cache would much simpler than the layered mess of caches
>> currently used, and it would give a speed boost over the constant JP2
>> to RGB mipmap decoding and discarding that is in place now. Decode
>> once and don't ever do it again.
>>
>> ,
>>
>> But I know it is just a dream. LL will never let it happen since it
>> will lay bare the data contents of every prim, texture, and object in
>> the virtual world, rather than obfuscating asset storage within the
>> current VFS / JP2 method.
>>
>> This viewer would get blacklisted before it ever got out the door.
>>
>> - Dale Mahalko / Scalar Tardis
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Brandon Husbands]

Who made the choice on the side bar lol, You do know mozilla has a
sidebar and book mark  side bars etc... None uses that also.

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:32 AM, Anya Kanevsky  wrote:

> Ann,
> I'm the SF-based Project Manager for Product Engine.  We're a contractor
> working with LL for almost 2 years now, mostly doing Viewer and QA work.
> Currently, our development team is a part of Snowstorm. I'll be happy to
> answer (almost) any questions you might have about us...
>
> Best,
>
> Anya
>
> P.S. Not sure about which pictures of what kids you're referring to ...
>
> 2010/9/16 Ann Otoole 
>
>> But the question is what is the "Product Engine"? (I've seen the pics of
>> those kids over there doing the work. They look like they like to have fun.)
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Yoz Grahame 
>> *To:* Ann Otoole 
>> *Cc:* opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>> *Sent:* Thu, September 16, 2010 4:07:14 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?
>>
>>
>> On 16 September 2010 13:04, Ann Otoole  wrote:
>>
>>> What is this "Product Engine" I see references to (made apparently by
>>> team shining) in the Scrum summaries?
>>>
>>
>> They're an external contract team doing engineering and QA work for us.
>>
>> -- Yoz
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Brandon Husbands]

It was a serious question. I wanted to know if LL did it or a 3rd party
contractor. not a insult.

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Ponzu  wrote:

> Brandon.  Thank you for the pointless insult.
>
> regards,
> lee
>
> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Brandon Husbands 
> wrote:
> > Who made the choice on the side bar lol, You do know mozilla has a
> > sidebar and book mark  side bars etc... None uses that also.
> >
> >>
>



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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Brandon Husbands]

I am actually about finished with my mod for v2.

It takes the sidebar.cpp file and only that file leaves all public method
calls in.
But its rewritten to be a floater manager where if you want to call say
profile it launches it as a floater.

Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the buttons
back for them and menu choices.

And there was much rejoicing.. Ill be submitting a patch soon. If its not
wanted thats fine but it allows me to use viewer 2.
and is easy to merge as the file is really the only file changed.


On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) <
o...@lindenlab.com> wrote:

>  On 2010-09-17 13:49, Brandon Husbands wrote:
> > It was a serious question. I wanted to know if LL did it or a 3rd
> > party contractor. not a insult.
>
> It doesn't matter... it's there, and we're going to have to deal with it
> (as in the recent changes to make panels detachable).
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Brandon Husbands]

Your able to open as many of each as you want
And resize And actually close so it does not sit there minimised...
Thats how it works with my patch...


On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Trilo Byte  wrote:

> Now if only we could resize the width of the sidebar, we'd be getting
> somewhere.  ;-) Seems like extra clicks and screen clutter to be able to see
> a little bit wider for inventory windows and group notices.  Pop open
> sidebar, detach or bounce to right side, and THEN finally be able to resize.
>  But then juggle the other windows if you need to actually interact with
> anything in-world.
>
> I do like where it's headed though, great progress is being made.  Cheers
> to those working on it
>
> Trilo
>
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 7:13 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
>
> >  On 2010-09-17 13:49, Brandon Husbands wrote:
> >> It was a serious question. I wanted to know if LL did it or a 3rd
> >> party contractor. not a insult.
> >
> > It doesn't matter... it's there, and we're going to have to deal with it
> > (as in the recent changes to make panels detachable).
> >
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Brandon Husbands]

The current functionality you cant really close resizing is a pain and the
floater on minimize has a header that stays in place.

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) <
o...@lindenlab.com> wrote:

>  On 2010-09-17 15:38, Brandon Husbands wrote:
>
>> I am actually about finished with my mod for v2.
>>
>> It takes the sidebar.cpp file and only that file leaves all public method
>> calls in.
>> But its rewritten to be a floater manager where if you want to call say
>> profile it launches it as a floater.
>>
>> Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the buttons
>> back for them and menu choices.
>>
>
> From an end user point of view, how does that differ from the current
> Development viewer functionality if the user has torn all the panels off as
> separate windows?
>
>


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Re: [opensource-dev] opensource-dev Digest, Vol 8, Issue 75

[Brandon Husbands]

Unfortunately I no longer work on a TPV team so Ill just have to submit
patches and hope they get used.
Dim.

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:03 PM, SuezanneC Baskerville
wrote:

> I hope that some TPV developers provide us with alternatives to kludgily
> modified, poorly designed panels for groups, profiles, inventory, etc.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 7:02 PM, <
> opensource-dev-requ...@lists.secondlife.com> wrote:
>
>> Send opensource-dev mailing list submissions to
>>opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>
>> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensource-dev
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>opensource-dev-requ...@lists.secondlife.com
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>opensource-dev-ow...@lists.secondlife.com
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of opensource-dev digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Zi Ree)
>>   2. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Marine Kelley)
>>   3. Side topic related to cache (was Re: User Story: Improved
>>  Cache (Ponzu)
>>   4. Re: Side topic related to cache (was Re: User Story: Improved
>>  Cache (Altair Sythos Memo)
>>   5. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Trilo Byte)
>>   6. Re: Where to put & look for test viewers (Trilo Byte)
>>   7. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Brandon Husbands)
>>   8. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Brandon Husbands)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 23:02:05 +0200
>> From: Zi Ree 
>> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?
>> To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>> Message-ID: <201009172302.05193.tinacl...@gmx.de>
>> Content-Type: Text/Plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Am Freitag 17 September 2010 22:51:38 schrieb Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence):
>>
>> > > Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the
>> > > buttons back for them and menu choices.
>> >
>> >  From an end user point of view, how does that differ from the current
>> > Development viewer functionality if the user has torn all the panels off
>> > as separate windows?
>>
>> I really really hope the difference is the ability to open as many profile
>> and
>> property floaters as we want, and not being limited to a single instance.
>> Does
>> the current Development viewer do that?
>>
>> Zi
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 23:12:05 +0200
>> From: Marine Kelley 
>> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?
>> To: Zi Ree 
>> Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> On 17 September 2010 23:02, Zi Ree  wrote:
>>
>> > Am Freitag 17 September 2010 22:51:38 schrieb Oz Linden (Scott
>> Lawrence):
>> >
>> > > > Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the
>> > > > buttons back for them and menu choices.
>> > >
>> > >  From an end user point of view, how does that differ from the current
>> > > Development viewer functionality if the user has torn all the panels
>> off
>> > > as separate windows?
>> >
>> > I really really hope the difference is the ability to open as many
>> profile
>> > and
>> > property floaters as we want, and not being limited to a single
>> instance.
>> > Does
>> > the current Development viewer do that?
>> >
>> > Yes the very point of being able to tear off some tabs is to be able to
>> actually copy them, and to switch to another tab in order to do some
>> drag-and-drop like in 1.x. Tearing one tab just to tear it and not have it
>> in the sidebar is rather pointless, if you ask me.
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20100917/48d8a711/attachment-0001.htm
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 17:14:01 -0400
>> From: Ponzu 
>> Subject: [opensource-dev] Side topic related

Re: [opensource-dev] Question about the Too Many Open Files problem

[Brandon Husbands]

I think the issue may be with slplugin, though i am not sure yet..  As its
starting to be used quite a bit.  And every media / external webbased thing
loads up a plugin. My Wifes machine at one time had like 23 slplugins
running.  Who knows how many threads.

Ill have to peek atthe code to proove this theory.

On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Vex Streeter  wrote:

>  HTTP textures seems to make an already bad situation worse.  A very
> large number of the open files I see on Linux are fonts:  I've seen up
> to 20 FDs pointing to the same font file - I typically run under linux
> with a ulimit of 2048 to avoid the issue.  I see similar things on
> Windows (7) but it is neither quite as bad (fewer fonts maybe?) nor
> happens to hit whatever fd limit windows has.  One of the problems with
> running out of FDs is that the viewer can fail in all sorts of bizarre
> ways and will often not be able to dump a useful log.
>
> On 9/19/2010 11:33 AM, leliel wrote:
> > I have exactly the same problem, except I'm using linux and my ulimit
> > is 1024. When I have http-textures enabled and I teleport the open
> > files hover around 850-950 with the viewer intermittently running out
> > of file descriptors. This causes about 1/3 of the http connections to
> > time out, presumably waiting for a free file descriptor, after this
> > happens for 30 seconds or so the cache system will get confused and
> > clear the whole cache, often 2 or 3 times per teleport. Eventually the
> > viewer will give up on the textures leaving 1/3 of the world gray. As
> > you might imagine, this makes http-textures completely unusable for
> > me.
> >
> > Occasionally the viewer will run out of file descriptors for too long
> > and crash, I had this happen to me once when some one IM'd me and the
> > viewer couldn't open the log file.
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Re: [opensource-dev] A comment on work in progress with 2.1.2

[Brandon Husbands]

The issue is that the floaters never close it is a.design flaw with the
sidebar

On Sep 21, 2010 11:11 AM, "Zha Ewry"  wrote:

The ability to tear off tabs into windows in the newest drops is a major bit
of progress. The lack of a simple "x" to close open floaters is huge
problem. Forcing people to close things by dock, minimize, means adding a
very disruptive click, move mouse, click again work flow to the
simple task of making something go away. The inverse is also true. It really
ought to be possible to get a floater up without having to take it off
the sidebar again and again. Roughly speaking, if you're doing a system with
window floaters, you ought to match the last 20 years of learned practice.
People expect familiar user interface elements to behave in familiar ways.
When you give them odd variants on expected patterns which don't stem from a
very clear and obviously better user workflow, you create a dissonant
experience. Lastly, any user workflow which requires mouse clocks and mouse
motions, prevents accessibility and requires people to switch input modes.
Again, 20 years of user interface evolution should be paid some heed.

~ Zha


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Re: [opensource-dev] Question about error message

[Brandon Husbands]

IIRC
This is a heads-up message about the use of the FrontWindow API and
compatibility with the next major release of Mac OS X.

In the current version of Mac OS X, the menubar is drawn into a window that
does not have a corresponding WindowRef. The window is actually created with
CoreGraphics window server calls and not by the Carbon Window Manager. The
FrontWindow API never returns a WindowRef for the menubar.

In the next major release of Mac OS X, the Menu Manager will be creating the
menubar window using the Window Manager. The menubar will have a WindowRef.
Since the menubar is almost always the topmost visible window, this means
that the FrontWindow API will almost always return the menubar window, as
will the GetFrontWindowOfClass API when passed the kAllWindowClasses
constant.

FrontWindow has been a deprecated API for most usages since Mac OS 8.5, when
the FrontNonFloatingWindow API and built-in support for floating windows
were introduced. However, a lot of apps are still using it, and get away
with this in most cases because the app doesn't use floating windows itself.
This is no longer going to work.

It's very important to review your source code for uses of the FrontWindow
and GetFrontWindowOfClass APIs. It's perfectly OK to use these APIs if you
really do want the topmost visible window, of whatever kind, perhaps because
you're interating over the window list to examine each window. But if your
code is calling FrontWindow or GetFrontWindowOfClass(kAllWindowClasses) with
the assumption that this will return the active document or dialog window,
then you will have a compatibility problem on the next major release of X.
You will get back the menubar instead. You should replace such usages with
calls to FrontNonFloatingWindow or (preferred) ActiveNonFloatingWindow.



On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Ponzu  wrote:

> I get 12 of these messages when I build the latest ...
>
> /Users/elee/Documents/hg/viewer-development/indra/llplugin/slplugin/slplugin.cpp:331:0
> /Users/elee/Documents/hg/viewer-development/indra/llplugin/slplugin/slplugin.cpp:331:
> warning: 'FrontWindow' is deprecated (declared at
> /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Headers/MacWindows.h:11398)
>
> I don't think I am using the SLPlugin, so I am not concerned at the moment,
> but if someone knows the quick fix, please let me know.
>
>
> regards
>
> lee
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Question about error message

[Brandon Husbands]

Should probably be committed to the hg. Maybe a jira on it with your patch?

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Katharine Berry <
kathar...@katharineberry.co.uk> wrote:

> That message is both inaccurate and very old (the decision was reversed);
> however, the function is still deprecated.
>
> Simply replacing all instances of FrontWindow with FrontNonFloatingWindow
> worked for me but I don't know if this is actually correct. Something like
> this:
> http://github.com/Katharine/kittyviewer/commit/64bf6f58f8d0dd4fab49c19571790e4247214c9a#diff-6
>
> – Katharine Berry
>
>
> On Sep 21, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Brandon Husbands wrote:
>
> IIRC
> This is a heads-up message about the use of the FrontWindow API and
> compatibility with the next major release of Mac OS X.
>
> In the current version of Mac OS X, the menubar is drawn into a window that
> does not have a corresponding WindowRef. The window is actually created with
> CoreGraphics window server calls and not by the Carbon Window Manager. The
> FrontWindow API never returns a WindowRef for the menubar.
>
> In the next major release of Mac OS X, the Menu Manager will be creating
> the menubar window using the Window Manager. The menubar will have a
> WindowRef. Since the menubar is almost always the topmost visible window,
> this means that the FrontWindow API will almost always return the menubar
> window, as will the GetFrontWindowOfClass API when passed the
> kAllWindowClasses constant.
>
> FrontWindow has been a deprecated API for most usages since Mac OS 8.5,
> when the FrontNonFloatingWindow API and built-in support for floating
> windows were introduced. However, a lot of apps are still using it, and get
> away with this in most cases because the app doesn't use floating windows
> itself. This is no longer going to work.
>
> It's very important to review your source code for uses of the FrontWindow
> and GetFrontWindowOfClass APIs. It's perfectly OK to use these APIs if you
> really do want the topmost visible window, of whatever kind, perhaps because
> you're interating over the window list to examine each window. But if your
> code is calling FrontWindow or GetFrontWindowOfClass(kAllWindowClasses) with
> the assumption that this will return the active document or dialog window,
> then you will have a compatibility problem on the next major release of X.
> You will get back the menubar instead. You should replace such usages with
> calls to FrontNonFloatingWindow or (preferred) ActiveNonFloatingWindow.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Ponzu  wrote:
>
>> I get 12 of these messages when I build the latest ...
>>
>> /Users/elee/Documents/hg/viewer-development/indra/llplugin/slplugin/slplugin.cpp:331:0
>> /Users/elee/Documents/hg/viewer-development/indra/llplugin/slplugin/slplugin.cpp:331:
>> warning: 'FrontWindow' is deprecated (declared at
>> /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Headers/MacWindows.h:11398)
>>
>> I don't think I am using the SLPlugin, so I am not concerned at the
>> moment, but if someone knows the quick fix, please let me know.
>>
>>
>> regards
>>
>> lee
>>
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[opensource-dev] Request For Input: Menu Shortcut keys overriding Floaters handlekeyhere events. STORM-203

[Brandon Husbands]

While taking peek at STORM-203
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-203?

It seems that shortcuts in the viewer menu are not allowing the floaters to
get input like ctrl F

My thoughts are to do one of the following

1. Add to the floater/focusmanager base class the ability to set priority
keys so floaters can set a handle first.
2. Add exceptions before the faulty code for the script editor. / modify the
faulty code to exclude ctrl f
3. Lock the script editors? (would that not make them modal? Yuck!)
4. Remove the priority code / faulty code. (possible adverse affects?)
5. *LAST DITCH* Change the shortcut to the search panel.

What do you think?

CODE causing the issue.

llViewerwindow.cpp

lines 2137 - 2146

// give menus a chance to handle modified (Ctrl, Alt) shortcut keys
before current focus
// as long as focus isn't locked
if (mask & (MASK_CONTROL | MASK_ALT) && !gFocusMgr.focusLocked())
{
if ((gMenuBarView && gMenuBarView->handleAcceleratorKey(key, mask))
||(gLoginMenuBarView &&
gLoginMenuBarView->handleAcceleratorKey(key, mask)))
{
return TRUE;
}
}

It appears that this is making shortcut keys grab the input before any
floaters are.
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[opensource-dev] New Doxygen based on latest HG repo for snowstorm

[Brandon Husbands]

http://dimentox.com/snowstorm/

Updated, complete with UML graphs.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Third Party Plug-ins?

[Brandon Husbands]

I have already started work on a plugin system with embeded mono. Which you
expose methods to the api.. This allows anyone to use any CLI language to
create plugins.

I can post more info on this later. A tad bit busy at the moment.

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 4:20 PM, malachi  wrote:

> i for one particularly love this idea. i think there should be a way for
> the default LL issued viewer to be a plain jane for every user client. but
> allow third party devs to create plugins that do whatever they want. the
> idea of the radar and ao are amazing. but dont stop there. there are tons
> of things that average users DO NOT use in the client already. LL could
> simply remove those items and offer them as plugins. i am for this idea of
> modularity 100%. my only question is where do we start?
>
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:57:16 -0400, miss c  wrote:
>
> > Would it be a plausible feature in the future to have the code accept
> > third
> > party plug-ins instead of creating whole new viewers?  Then have a Third
> > party
> > directory approved plug-in list.  As I mentioned before, my husband is
> > making an
> > external installer for people that may have difficulty installing skins
> > into the
> > new viewer, this will be a directory that all skin designers can add
> > their skins
> > to.  Wouldn't it be better to have a RLV plug in or an AO plug in, or a
> > radar
> > plugin that displays distance, then have to add all that to each
> > viewer?  I do
> > realize that there may be some things that Linden Lab might not want to
> > add to
> > their code but if its switched to a plug in system, people can pick and
> > choose
> > which additional features they prefer without having whats considered
> > competing
> > iewers.
> >
> > TY
> >
> > Miss
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Third Party Plug-ins?

[Brandon Husbands]

Any discussion is ok about any feature thats wanted. Just cause there were
previous discussions does not mean you are to attempt to close this thread.
Do not hinder development by attempting to moderate a thread ricky.

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Ricky  wrote:

> Missed one:
> "Client-side scripting REST/HTTP doc sample" -
>
> https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-March/001050.html
>
> This was the basis for https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-375
>
> Ricky
> Cron Stardust
>
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 3:54 PM, Ricky  wrote:
> > Please read these threads for the discussions we had on the types and
> > limits of various plugin schemes:
> > * "Client-side scripting in Snowglobe" -
> >
> https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-February/88.html
> > * "Consensus? was: Client-side scripting in Snowglobe" -
> >
> https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-February/000167.html
> > * "Client Plugin System Design" -
> >
> https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-March/000624.html
> >
> > There are many useful ideas and documented pitfalls to avoid.  With
> > due consideration of these conversations many of the expected
> > issues/fears can be "headed off at the pass" you might say.
> >
> > Ricky
> > Cron Stardust
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Brandon Husbands 
> wrote:
> >> I have already started work on a plugin system with embeded mono. Which
> you
> >> expose methods to the api.. This allows anyone to use any CLI language
> to
> >> create plugins.
> >>
> >> I can post more info on this later. A tad bit busy at the moment.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 4:20 PM, malachi  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> i for one particularly love this idea. i think there should be a way
> for
> >>> the default LL issued viewer to be a plain jane for every user client.
> but
> >>> allow third party devs to create plugins that do whatever they want.
> the
> >>> idea of the radar and ao are amazing. but dont stop there. there are
> tons
> >>> of things that average users DO NOT use in the client already. LL could
> >>> simply remove those items and offer them as plugins. i am for this idea
> of
> >>> modularity 100%. my only question is where do we start?
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:57:16 -0400, miss c 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > Would it be a plausible feature in the future to have the code accept
> >>> > third
> >>> > party plug-ins instead of creating whole new viewers?  Then have a
> Third
> >>> > party
> >>> > directory approved plug-in list.  As I mentioned before, my husband
> is
> >>> > making an
> >>> > external installer for people that may have difficulty installing
> skins
> >>> > into the
> >>> > new viewer, this will be a directory that all skin designers can add
> >>> > their skins
> >>> > to.  Wouldn't it be better to have a RLV plug in or an AO plug in, or
> a
> >>> > radar
> >>> > plugin that displays distance, then have to add all that to each
> >>> > viewer?  I do
> >>> > realize that there may be some things that Linden Lab might not want
> to
> >>> > add to
> >>> > their code but if its switched to a plug in system, people can pick
> and
> >>> > choose
> >>> > which additional features they prefer without having whats considered
> >>> > competing
> >>> > iewers.
> >>> >
> >>> > TY
> >>> >
> >>> > Miss
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> >>> ___
> >>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> >>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> >>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> >>> privileges
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> ---
> >> This email is a private and confidential communication. Any use of email
> ma

Re: [opensource-dev] Third Party Plug-ins?

[Brandon Husbands]

Yikes... I misread your post. LOL There are plenty on this list that try to
close threads with links to past discussions. LOL my bad.. Ty for the links.

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Ricky  wrote:

> Please read these threads for the discussions we had on the types and
> limits of various plugin schemes:
> * "Client-side scripting in Snowglobe" -
>
> https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-February/88.html
> * "Consensus? was: Client-side scripting in Snowglobe" -
>
> https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-February/000167.html
> * "Client Plugin System Design" -
>
> https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-March/000624.html
>
> There are many useful ideas and documented pitfalls to avoid.  With
> due consideration of these conversations many of the expected
> issues/fears can be "headed off at the pass" you might say.
>
> Ricky
> Cron Stardust
>
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Brandon Husbands 
> wrote:
> > I have already started work on a plugin system with embeded mono. Which
> you
> > expose methods to the api.. This allows anyone to use any CLI language to
> > create plugins.
> >
> > I can post more info on this later. A tad bit busy at the moment.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 4:20 PM, malachi  wrote:
> >>
> >> i for one particularly love this idea. i think there should be a way for
> >> the default LL issued viewer to be a plain jane for every user client.
> but
> >> allow third party devs to create plugins that do whatever they want. the
> >> idea of the radar and ao are amazing. but dont stop there. there are
> tons
> >> of things that average users DO NOT use in the client already. LL could
> >> simply remove those items and offer them as plugins. i am for this idea
> of
> >> modularity 100%. my only question is where do we start?
> >>
> >> On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:57:16 -0400, miss c  wrote:
> >>
> >> > Would it be a plausible feature in the future to have the code accept
> >> > third
> >> > party plug-ins instead of creating whole new viewers?  Then have a
> Third
> >> > party
> >> > directory approved plug-in list.  As I mentioned before, my husband is
> >> > making an
> >> > external installer for people that may have difficulty installing
> skins
> >> > into the
> >> > new viewer, this will be a directory that all skin designers can add
> >> > their skins
> >> > to.  Wouldn't it be better to have a RLV plug in or an AO plug in, or
> a
> >> > radar
> >> > plugin that displays distance, then have to add all that to each
> >> > viewer?  I do
> >> > realize that there may be some things that Linden Lab might not want
> to
> >> > add to
> >> > their code but if its switched to a plug in system, people can pick
> and
> >> > choose
> >> > which additional features they prefer without having whats considered
> >> > competing
> >> > iewers.
> >> >
> >> > TY
> >> >
> >> > Miss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> >> ___
> >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> >> privileges
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> ---
> > This email is a private and confidential communication. Any use of email
> may
> > be subject to the laws and regulations of the United States. You may not
> > Repost, Distribute nor reproduce any content of this message.
> >
> ---
> >
> ---
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> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> > privileges
> >
>



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Re: [opensource-dev] Third Party Plug-ins?

[Brandon Husbands]

My idea would be like installing a android app it says what it wants access
to and asks user permission.
Using embeded mono also the dlls have to be compiled.  Threading will be
fine you just have to know where to abstract it. Unlike lua mono handles its
own threading. LUA is too much a scripting lang IMHO.

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Rob Nelson wrote:

>  Lua's been implemented in a TPV successfully, meaning client-side
> scripting is definitely possible.  The only problem is that the viewer was
> never intended to have a scripting engine built-in, so lots of hacking on
> the backend to expose useful methods to the scripting engine is required.
> The threading is also a mess right now.
>
> Another consideration is what restrictions LL will want on these plugins.
> I've already gone ahead and assumed that LL doesn't want scripts to have raw
> access to the messaging system, to avoid having malicious plugins sending
> disruptive or dangerous packets to the network.  I've also placed a policy
> on viewer development where access to economic functions must be approved by
> the user (via a warning dialog or a settings checkbox), and TPV policies
> (such as checking for creator permissions before accessing an object) have
> also been implemented.
>
> Rob Nelson
> Luna Viewer
>
>
> On 9/24/2010 5:43 PM, Brandon Husbands wrote:
>
> Yikes... I misread your post. LOL There are plenty on this list that try to
> close threads with links to past discussions. LOL my bad.. Ty for the links.
>
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Ricky  wrote:
>
>> Please read these threads for the discussions we had on the types and
>> limits of various plugin schemes:
>> * "Client-side scripting in Snowglobe" -
>>
>> https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-February/88.html
>> * "Consensus? was: Client-side scripting in Snowglobe" -
>>
>> https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-February/000167.html
>> * "Client Plugin System Design" -
>>
>> https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-March/000624.html
>>
>> There are many useful ideas and documented pitfalls to avoid.  With
>> due consideration of these conversations many of the expected
>> issues/fears can be "headed off at the pass" you might say.
>>
>> Ricky
>> Cron Stardust
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Brandon Husbands 
>> wrote:
>> > I have already started work on a plugin system with embeded mono. Which
>> you
>> > expose methods to the api.. This allows anyone to use any CLI language
>> to
>> > create plugins.
>> >
>> > I can post more info on this later. A tad bit busy at the moment.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 4:20 PM, malachi  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> i for one particularly love this idea. i think there should be a way
>> for
>> >> the default LL issued viewer to be a plain jane for every user client.
>> but
>> >> allow third party devs to create plugins that do whatever they want.
>> the
>> >> idea of the radar and ao are amazing. but dont stop there. there are
>> tons
>> >> of things that average users DO NOT use in the client already. LL could
>> >> simply remove those items and offer them as plugins. i am for this idea
>> of
>> >> modularity 100%. my only question is where do we start?
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:57:16 -0400, miss c 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Would it be a plausible feature in the future to have the code accept
>> >> > third
>> >> > party plug-ins instead of creating whole new viewers?  Then have a
>> Third
>> >> > party
>> >> > directory approved plug-in list.  As I mentioned before, my husband
>> is
>> >> > making an
>> >> > external installer for people that may have difficulty installing
>> skins
>> >> > into the
>> >> > new viewer, this will be a directory that all skin designers can add
>> >> > their skins
>> >> > to.  Wouldn't it be better to have a RLV plug in or an AO plug in, or
>> a
>> >> > radar
>> >> > plugin that displays distance, then have to add all that to each
>> >> > viewer?  I do
>> >> > realize that there may be some things that Linden Lab might not want
>> to
>> >> > add to
>> >> > their code but if its switched to a plug in system, people can pick
>> and
>> >&g

[opensource-dev] Mesh?

[Brandon Husbands]

I understand the want to be all private and stuff with this but uhh it hurts
the open source initiative if you hide this code from us.  Are we really 2nd
rate developers where our skills are not trusted enough to help with actual
development and nut just hit or miss bugfixers?


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Re: [opensource-dev] Mesh?

[Brandon Husbands]

What are the chances your new feature will be integrated. This is why TPV's
exist cause the integration processess is like trying to get the mayor of a
city to accept a meting with a plumber

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Ponzu  wrote:

> I think this is unfair.  If *I* want to develop some cool new feature,
> I don't have to submit it to everyone else *until* I think the time is
> right.  In that sense, the Lindens working on mesh have the same
> rights that I do.
>
> On the other hand, I wish there were some non-Lindens on the
> "committee" that accept fixes and merge them intothe main line.
> Clearly, Lindens have an important say in that, but other people might
> have a good voice too.
>
> Faster, Easier, Funner..
>
> On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Brandon Husbands 
> wrote:
> > I understand the want to be all private and stuff with this but uhh it
> hurts
> > the open source initiative if you hide this code from us.  Are we really
> 2nd
> > rate developers where our skills are not trusted enough to help with
> actual
> > development and nut just hit or miss bugfixers?
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> ---
> > This email is a private and confidential communication. Any use of email
> may
> > be subject to the laws and regulations of the United States. You may not
> > Repost, Distribute nor reproduce any content of this message.
> >
> ---
> >
> ---
> >
> > ___
> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> > privileges
> >
>



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Re: [opensource-dev] Mesh?

[Brandon Husbands]

I have actually thought Windlight should be set server side.
I wanted to add that to emerald and store the sim settings on the server and
push down. But there are some windlight settings that can be used
maliciously and crash viewers.

So it was nixed.

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Marine Kelley wrote:

>
>
> On 25 September 2010 19:05, Ponzu  wrote:
>
>>
>> I haven't always monitored closely, but I think I can agree with this.
>>  However, it seems to me that there will and should always be TPVs, even if
>> it becomes easier for non-Linden changes to get in.  For one example, the
>> Restrained Life stuff might never be acceptable to Lindens for Public
>> Relations or Legal issues.
>>
>>
> That's why I never bothered asking. However I do think that if the name
> were different, the regular viewer would really benefit from some of the
> features of the RLV, such as sharing Windlight settings, setting the avatar
> rotation, changing the clothes remotely etc.
>
> Or even all of the restrictions like no-detach, no-IMs etc which are, after
> all, only "hooks" that are in the viewer to make scripts decide whether or
> not an ability can be used according to the circumstances. It really
> enhances the experience and allows for products that would never have been
> made otherwise. And since all the RLV features can be turned off by changing
> one debug setting and relogging, there is no real additional threat from
> griefers.
>



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Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[Brandon Husbands]

Actually no its a viewer feature...

http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-sg/file/cc7894faa410/indra/newview/scriptcounter.h
and
http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-sg/file/cc7894faa410/indra/newview/scriptcounter.cpp

Just plugin and create a menu etc...

If you want a non phoenix one re written for viewer 2.x i can easily do that
and comply with lgpl as it wont be a port but a re implementation.

Dim.


On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson <
es...@lindenlab.com> wrote:

> Hi Miss C,
>
> The script count feature you requested is something that the Snowstorm Team
> wouldn't work on as its not really a Viewer feature - requiring mostly work
> on the server-side.
>
> I've moved the issue to our Land team so they can evaluate and prioritize
> the request. Unfortunately, the Land Team's tasks are not publicly visible
> in the new Jira set up. The ticket was moved intact with all the supporting
> data and will be given proper consideration.
>
> Best,
> Esbee
>
>
>
> This is really a request for a new script function to report # of scripts
> on an avatar; it's not a viewer feature (or even possible to do
> correctly/reliably with current grid protocols). Kicking to the Land team
> for evaluation/prioritization.
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 6:19 PM, miss c  wrote:
>
>> Apparently it was moved, leaped the the land group, but I cant access
>> where it went either.  Below are the details I added, worked real hard on
>> getting all information needed, all the referencing files uploaded, had 50
>> something votes, now gone, I hope it is taken seriously.
>>
>> Miss
>>
>>   [
>> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel]
>>
>> Esbee Linden updated VWR-23200:
>> ---
>>
>> Summary: Script count feature request  (was: Script Count - 2.0
>> Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request)
>>
>> This is really a request for a new script function to report # of scripts
>> on an avatar; it's not a viewer feature (or even possible to do
>> correctly/reliably with current grid protocols). Kicking to the Land team
>> for evaluation/prioritization.
>>
>> > Script count feature request
>> > -
>> >
>> >Key: VWR-23200
>> >URL: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200
>> >Project: 1. Second Life Viewer - VWR
>> >  Issue Type: New Feature
>> >  Components: Avatar/Character, Building (in-world), Performance,
>> Scripting, Source Code, User Interface
>> >Environment: Second Life 2.2.1 (210525) Sep 25 2010 08:22:37
>> (Second Life Development)
>> > Release Notes
>> > CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPUQ8300  @ 2.50GHz (2493.73 MHz)
>> > Memory: 6078 MB
>> > OS Version: Microsoft Windows Vista 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 6001)
>> > Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
>> > Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series
>> > Windows Graphics Driver Version: 8.17.0010.1041
>> > OpenGL Version: 3.3.10151 Compatibility Profile Context
>> > libcurl Version: libcurl/7.20.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3
>> > J2C Decoder Version: KDU
>> > Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.74
>> > Qt Webkit Version: 4.6 (version number hard-coded)
>> > Voice Server Version: Not Connected
>> > Built with MSVC version 1400
>> >Reporter: Miss Wright
>> >Priority: Severe
>> >Attachments: CMakeLists.txt, floateravatarlist.cpp,
>> llstartup.cpp, llviewermenu.cpp, menu_pie_attachment.xml,
>> menu_pie_avatar.xml, menu_pie_object.xml, menu_pie_self.xml, message.xml,
>> scriptcounter.cpp, scriptcounter.h, scriptcountsample.jpg
>> >
>> >
>> > As a sim owner I MUST have a script counter so we can keep our scripts
>> low in the sim because of the excessive use of resizing scripts.  Several
>> times a day we have an exercise in our sim where we make an estate
>> announcement to count your scripts and your neighbors to reduce the load on
>> the servers.  Even though we do this several times a day there is always
>> someone who forgot their scripts in something, you can easily find a good
>> 5-10 people with 400+ scripts on them.  I am completely sold on the 2.0 code
>> and can live without some of the other features in Phoenix/Emerald, but this
>> one is an absolute deal breaker for me.  I combed through the code to try
>> and see if this was something handled in xml commands and its not, its in
>> the Phoenix/Emerald code.  Can we please get this option.
>> > Also the option of avatar announcement and script fluctuation upon
>> entering the sim helps combat scripts, this would be helpful in 2.0 but I
>> wouldn't call it a deal breaker.  I have it announcing when an avatar enters
>> and announcing region script count change so i know as soon as they enter
>> and their script count if I am paying attention.
>> > TY
>> > Miss
>> > UPDATE: MORE INFO: If you are using a viewer based on the Emerald code
>> base such as Emergan

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[Brandon Husbands]

Just to iterate that it does work.

[22:22]  Counting scripts. Please wait.
[22:22]  Counted scripts on object SL Exchange Magic Box white: 5

Works for any object.
The code even allows you if you have permissions to remove all scripts which
is a desperately needed function with all the poorly scripted re-sizer
scripts in object.

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:18 AM, miss c  wrote:

> It isn't a server feature, this works right now in all the OTHER viewers.
> I attached like 10 files from the source code of all those viewers, the same
> exact files in each viewer that does this NOW.  Did you even read my Jira??
> I worked so hard to supply every bit of information.  Unless you have
> allowed all these other viewers access to the server code, I think there has
> been a mistake, could you please reread my Jira.
>
> TY
>
> Miss
>
> ------
> *From:* Brandon Husbands 
> *To:* Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson 
> *Cc:* miss c ; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> *Sent:* Tue, September 28, 2010 12:12:33 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count
> feature request
>
> Actually no its a viewer feature...
>
>
> http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-sg/file/cc7894faa410/indra/newview/scriptcounter.h
> and
>
> http://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-sg/file/cc7894faa410/indra/newview/scriptcounter.cpp
>
> Just plugin and create a menu etc...
>
> If you want a non phoenix one re written for viewer 2.x i can easily do
> that and comply with lgpl as it wont be a port but a re implementation.
>
> Dim.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson <
> es...@lindenlab.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Miss C,
>>
>> The script count feature you requested is something that the Snowstorm
>> Team wouldn't work on as its not really a Viewer feature - requiring mostly
>> work on the server-side.
>>
>> I've moved the issue to our Land team so they can evaluate and prioritize
>> the request. Unfortunately, the Land Team's tasks are not publicly visible
>> in the new Jira set up. The ticket was moved intact with all the supporting
>> data and will be given proper consideration.
>>
>> Best,
>> Esbee
>>
>>
>>
>> This is really a request for a new script function to report # of scripts
>> on an avatar; it's not a viewer feature (or even possible to do
>> correctly/reliably with current grid protocols). Kicking to the Land team
>> for evaluation/prioritization.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 6:19 PM, miss c  wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently it was moved, leaped the the land group, but I cant access
>>> where it went either.  Below are the details I added, worked real hard on
>>> getting all information needed, all the referencing files uploaded, had 50
>>> something votes, now gone, I hope it is taken seriously.
>>>
>>> Miss
>>>
>>>   [
>>> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel]
>>>
>>> Esbee Linden updated VWR-23200:
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Summary: Script count feature request  (was: Script Count - 2.0
>>> Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request)
>>>
>>> This is really a request for a new script function to report # of scripts
>>> on an avatar; it's not a viewer feature (or even possible to do
>>> correctly/reliably with current grid protocols). Kicking to the Land team
>>> for evaluation/prioritization.
>>>
>>> > Script count feature request
>>> > -
>>> >
>>> >Key: VWR-23200
>>> >URL: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23200
>>> >Project: 1. Second Life Viewer - VWR
>>> >  Issue Type: New Feature
>>> >  Components: Avatar/Character, Building (in-world),
>>> Performance, Scripting, Source Code, User Interface
>>> >Environment: Second Life 2.2.1 (210525) Sep 25 2010 08:22:37
>>> (Second Life Development)
>>> > Release Notes
>>> > CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPUQ8300  @ 2.50GHz (2493.73 MHz)
>>> > Memory: 6078 MB
>>> > OS Version: Microsoft Windows Vista 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 6001)
>>> > Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
>>> > Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 4600 Series
>>> > Windows Graphics Driver Version: 8.17.0010.1041
>>> > OpenGL Version: 3.3.10151 Compatibility Profile Conte

Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request

[Brandon Husbands]

To your p.s i think the code she submitted was more of a example of how its
done not a patch as she is not a coder nor submitted the code as a official
patch. Also you should note that most people are ignorant of LLs need to be
able to push code back into a closed source and assume that GPL / opensource
means LL can use it. Which actually would be a valid thought if ll's source
was gpl on its own versions. I on the other have have a CLA signed. Hence
why i said i would willingly re implement not port or copy. A version of my
own doing and optimization.

I think the major issue boils down to the feature is a major thing for sim
owners. I think the disconnection between the populace and LL is apparent in
this request as the residents see it as a critical feature and ll sees it in
a different view. But this list is not one to argue philosophy nor
semantics.

The code in question on the approach to how its done is not a bad one IMHO.
Yes server side could probably implement it better but none of the non LL on
this list have access to such things and must make do with what we are
given. From continued use its not apparent to be laggy actually but I could
be mistaken.

I strongly suggest this data (the end result) be includes as its value to
your residents is quite critical.

Dim.

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:55 AM, Kelly Linden  wrote:

> There are multiple issues at play here:
> What I understand is that the viewer is flogging our servers to brute force
> build the data being requested.  Yes, you get the results, yes it can take a
> bit of time for complex avatars or objects - and a lot more work is being
> done than is necessary both by the viewer and the server. When we look at
> implementing a feature request it is not in our best interest to just look
> at the quickest, dirtiest way to get the job done. We want to implement a
> feature that will work smoothly and be something we can support into the
> future. Our access to and responsibility for the server side as well as the
> viewer gives us both a better opportunity as well as increased
> responsibility.
>
> Just to be clear, the work done by other viewer teams is very good work and
> they have done a great job with the tools they have. I only wish we could
> have been quicker to expose better tools to them.
>
> Secondly, while some of our teams may have a primary focus on either the
> viewer or the server, other teams - such as the Land team - are built to
> focus on products as a whole. Estate, region and parcel tools are features
> we feel deserve to be looked at and evaluated as a product from end to end.
> These features almost always benefit from both viewer and server
> development. It is also beneficial to keep the backlogs of related
> functionality together so we can better prioritize the features and bugs
> that effect the Land product against each other.
>
> So, *yes* it is quite possible to implement this check in the viewer alone,
> and kudos to the team(s) that have done it. However, we feel obligated to do
> a more thorough solution by fixing the server and viewer together, and to
> prioritize this feature request against the many other feature requests for
> the Land product.
>
>  - Kelly
>
> P.S. I am also not sure on the legal issues involved around the software
> licenses here. As far as I'm aware we still require a contributors agreement
> and it is not clear that the code added to the jira was actually written by
> the person who attached it to jira, whether that person has a contributors
> agreement or what license was attached to that code. At the very least I am
> guessing it is extremely bad form to submit code you don't own and didn't
> create into the jira.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Brandon Husbands wrote:
>
>> Just to iterate that it does work.
>>
>> [22:22]  Counting scripts. Please wait.
>> [22:22]  Counted scripts on object SL Exchange Magic Box white: 5
>>
>> Works for any object.
>> The code even allows you if you have permissions to remove all scripts
>> which is a desperately needed function with all the poorly scripted re-sizer
>> scripts in object.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:18 AM, miss c  wrote:
>>
>>> It isn't a server feature, this works right now in all the OTHER
>>> viewers.  I attached like 10 files from the source code of all those
>>> viewers, the same exact files in each viewer that does this NOW.  Did you
>>> even read my Jira??  I worked so hard to supply every bit of information.
>>> Unless you have allowed all these other viewers access to the server code, I
>>> think there has been a mistake, could you please reread my Jira.
>>>
>>> TY
>>>
>>> Miss
>>

Re: [opensource-dev] Unity 3D as possible base for future (maybe even official) SL Viewers

[Brandon Husbands]

Unity is the biggest POS i have ever used
Not well designed. IMHO. Its like trying to do SL in javascript.
Not literally but you know what i mean.

It was never designed for a heavy network transport now multi player / mmo
style.

A FPS maybe but nothing on a grand scale.


On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Robert "Exile In Paradise" Murphey <
ex...@weylan-yutani.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 2010-10-03 at 18:15 -0400, Glen Canaday wrote:
> > That's why I suggested Ogre instead. I personally think it would be a
> > better fit and more productive to look at. Others may have different
> > opinions.
>
> Well, I run Linux and agree that being shut out after
> years of being supported would be suboptimal for me.
>
> Running in a VM is an exercise that only a masochist can love
> compared to an application natively supported.
>
> Plus, a VM position forces people to purchase additional OSes
> just to support one (or a handful) of apps, which add massive
> overheard in additional administration. At-home-VM is a
> temporary workaround, not a "platform strategy".
> Remember - SL is supposed to be Fast, Easy, Fun... not an
> enterprise-level support nightmare just to boot and run in
> the first place.
>
> Unity3D seems like a lot of "lose" to me: for the same amount
> of effort to switch to that, re-base on something else that keeps
> the same supported set of platforms or extends it without dropping
> already supported platforms.
>
> OGRE may be a great suggestion, especially in light of the RealXtend
> folks having already broken a LOT of the ground of an "SL client
> that uses OGRE rendering." Why re-reinvent their wheel?
> Maybe talk to them about Naali and see what goes from there?
>
> --
> Robert "Exile In Paradise" Murphey
> Promise her anything, but give her Exxon unleaded.
>
>
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>



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Re: [opensource-dev] Unity 3D as possible base for future (maybe even official) SL Viewers

[Brandon Husbands]

Actually its not inaccurate. The tools themselves are clunky.. And i am not
taking this as a lsl vs their language. I am talking about the engine
itself.  From a lower level perspective.  Unity is really more of a
middleware when it comes to graphics engines. sure you can use any network
you want but in a whole as what it offers as a base is not what would be
able to be used for something on the scale of sl.

Also as a user you would not have those midddle ware tools that you see
unless you want the whole thing to be clunky.

Its rigging and control system is designed for rapid prototyping and higher
level designig.

I would put unity as an equivilant to making a mod for a fps with "good"
tools unlike most mod systems.

But as a complete engine from a graphics and other standpoints The hero
engine blows that away. Actually there are quite a few game engines that
surpass unity. And if we take thoes its like compairing writing with QT vs
flash. (not quick time... but QT).

Flash is great as a packaged thing but its limited. Now unity can me
modified and such to some extent but no where whats needed for a SL type of
thing.

And for the record I am not a fan boi of any engine or system. But i have
developed a mmo from the ground up in 2001 to playable alpha 2 on the cusp
of beta before the project was shelved due to funding.
Having written a majority of the Engine and most of the server code. I would
thing these are subjects i am quite capable of assessing.



On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 7:41 PM,  wrote:

>  Alright, this is the most incorrect post I have ever seen so I would
> guess you have used Unity for maybe a total of an one hour.
>
>
>
> First of all you can use any network technology you like.  It does come
> with a very basic P2P network, but you can use many game server that you
> like included some that support fail over and fault tolerance
> configurations.  In fact there are those using SL’s server and rendering
> prims and sculpties in Unity.
>
>
>
> The scripting language can also use C# and supports a way more complete set
> of functions then is available in SL.  This list is so long I don’t know
> where to start on functionality it supports that LSL doesn’t support.
>
>
>
> Not sure your point about FPS, it has Ambers Occlusion culling, beast
> lighting and deferred lighting which lets it create FPS you can’t do in SL
> for the same amount of content.
>
>
>
> So if you are going to comment on Unity please do your homework and don’t
> mislead people.
>
>
>
> M.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com [mailto:
> opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] *On Behalf Of *Brandon
> Husbands
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 03, 2010 8:20 PM
> *To:* Robert Exile In Paradise Murphey
> *Cc:* opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] Unity 3D as possible base for future
> (maybe even official) SL Viewers
>
>
>
> Unity is the biggest POS i have ever used
> Not well designed. IMHO. Its like trying to do SL in javascript.
> Not literally but you know what i mean.
>
> It was never designed for a heavy network transport now multi player / mmo
> style.
>
> A FPS maybe but nothing on a grand scale.
>
>  On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Robert "Exile In Paradise" Murphey <
> ex...@weylan-yutani.com> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 2010-10-03 at 18:15 -0400, Glen Canaday wrote:
> > That's why I suggested Ogre instead. I personally think it would be a
> > better fit and more productive to look at. Others may have different
> > opinions.
>
> Well, I run Linux and agree that being shut out after
> years of being supported would be suboptimal for me.
>
> Running in a VM is an exercise that only a masochist can love
> compared to an application natively supported.
>
> Plus, a VM position forces people to purchase additional OSes
> just to support one (or a handful) of apps, which add massive
> overheard in additional administration. At-home-VM is a
> temporary workaround, not a "platform strategy".
> Remember - SL is supposed to be Fast, Easy, Fun... not an
> enterprise-level support nightmare just to boot and run in
> the first place.
>
> Unity3D seems like a lot of "lose" to me: for the same amount
> of effort to switch to that, re-base on something else that keeps
> the same supported set of platforms or extends it without dropping
> already supported platforms.
>
> OGRE may be a great suggestion, especially in light of the RealXtend
> folks having already broken a LOT of the ground of an "SL client
> that uses OGRE rendering." Why re-reinvent their wheel?
> Maybe talk to them about Naali and see what goes 

Re: [opensource-dev] Unity 3D as possible base for future (maybe even official) SL Viewers

[Brandon Husbands]

Ive used it, and fount it blehh.  I think we are failing to communicate
about our conception of what is possible and what is used.

Are you saying that the normal user would have full access to what you use
to develop the "client"?
As its a middle ware really i fail to see how your going to implement that.
I could be wrong. There are so many propitiatory things that you'd have to
code in and handle rendering for with sl. Also remember you can not change
the server backend. I just do not see it possible or powerful enough to
handle what sl uses and does. I guess its the same concept between higher
level langs and lower level ones. I could be wrong about this and just be
old school in my thoughts.

If your so sure that it can do what needs to be done why have you not
already done a prototype.
>From what your saying should be easy to get connected and render the scene.

I would love to be wrong in that regard but then again i just don't see how
your going to handle such things in a closed source engine.



On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:36 PM,  wrote:

>  Obviously these are subjective statements but I think your statements are
> based on an incomplete understanding of the tool and probably limited
> experience using it.
>
>
>
> Not sure how you can say it is clunky.  I have a scene hierarchy where I
> can list and see every object in my seen. It’s like seeing every prim in my
> region.  I can select any object and view it in the inspector.
>
>
>
> Scripts are assigned to objects and not copied and duplicated into each
> prim.  I can edit a script once and every object that uses it gets that
> update.
>
>
>
> In the inspector I can see every public value of the script and change its
> value without having to actually edit the script.
>
>
>
> I can use assets directly from my disk without having to upload them when
> creating.  That is much faster than waiting for SL to do things.
>
>
>
> Scripts can access to every bone in the skeleton system and I can override
> animations to adjust the bones to a given scene’s needs, for instance if two
> avatars are a different height and I can adjust the bones to make their
> hands connect so they can really walk hand in hand.
>
>
>
> I can create keyed animations in Unity or use animations from other
> programs.  Animates can throw events which can trigger code to do things.
>  From scripts you can create and edit the animations and their key data.
>  You can layer animations, set their weights.  You can sync the length of
> layers.  Cross fade animations.
>
>
>
> You have materials like you do in Maya.
>
>
>
> I can create custom shaders.
>
>
>
> You can have spot lights, point lights and directional lights.
>
>
>
> You can create your own skyboxes.
>
>
>
> You can use water any where, not limited to just one plane with the water
> shader.
>
>
>
> I can use meshes.  Any object in the scene can have a skeleton.
>
>
>
> I can edit meshes and vertices in real-time allowing me to create
> parameterized content in real-time.
>
>
>
> I can load assets from a URL or through websockets.
>
>
>
> I can load textures from a URL or through websockets.
>
>
>
> There is a profiler that lets me see in great detail what the engine is
> doing.
>
>
>
> I can use Visual Studio to develop my scripts with all the features of
> Visual Studio.
>
>
>
> I can run a debugger and debug the scripts and libraries I am using in the
> scene.
>
>
>
> I can do baked lighting including ambient occlusion inside the tool
>
>
>
> I can do occlusion culling so I can have very large scenes.
>
>
>
> I can control what assets are loading and stream the rest in the
> background.
>
>
>
> I can use libraries of code.
>
>
>
> From one code base I can be published to many platforms including web and
> mobile phone.  Linux is the big one they are missing a native support for.
>
>
>
> Should I go on?
>
>
>
>
>
> This is a group that is focused on Second Life client so not trying to
> convince anyone to switch.  But I do think it is fair that people give
> accurate information based on real experience and not guessing.  I think if
> you understood the tool more you will see your statements are based on
> inaccurate understanding of the tool.
>
>
>
> I personally do believe that the game development platforms will outpace
> anyone doing proprietary client development and as such the days are quickly
> approaching where you won’t be able to justify the cost of developing your
> own client rendering engines when you can get the features off the shelf for
> $1200 that would cost you way more to 

[opensource-dev] Tools of the trade.

[Brandon Husbands]

I understand that Licensing costs money but I do have a question. It is
almost 2011 That's 6 years after Visual Studio was released.
I also know there are patches floating around for cmake and various other
things that make VS2k8 compile properly. So I ask this, when is LL going to
drop vs2k5 as the "Supported" MS compiler? With c++0x Standard actually
being implimented with some methods in vs2k8 and mostly in 2k10. Is it not
time to really update our default toolset?

At least lets get the patches in to fix 2k8, and get it officially
supported. I despise 2k5, 28k is pretty solid now. 2k10 seems to be the
vista of IDE's maybe 2k11 will be the win 7 =) Mostly due to the project
based settings instead of global IDE includes which is a PITA even with
Cmake.

Id like to get LL's response on how long are we going to be stuck with 2k5
as the "official" compiler/ide.



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Re: [opensource-dev] Enhanced Script Editor Request

[Brandon Husbands]

I will submit my external editor patch to snow storm

On Oct 20, 2010 5:39 PM, "Ponzu"  wrote:

Make the script editor use vi.




On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Ricky  wrote:
>
> It used to stay up until cli...

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Re: [opensource-dev] Tools of the trade.

[Brandon Husbands]

You ditching Cmake?


On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) 
wrote:

> We've been having this discussion internally for some time. There's a lot
> of friction because a) we have to update lots of developers, and b) we have
> to rebuild all the libraries and distribute them internally.
>
> We've been working on a tool called autobuild which will automate this
> process; it's almost ready. It should make it lots easier for us as well as
> opensource developers to get a build up and running, and will centralize the
> tool decisions so that we can finally upgrade fairly easily.
>
>Q
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2010, at 12:21 AM, Brandon Husbands wrote:
>
> > I understand that Licensing costs money but I do have a question. It is
> almost 2011 That's 6 years after Visual Studio was released.
> > I also know there are patches floating around for cmake and various other
> things that make VS2k8 compile properly. So I ask this, when is LL going to
> drop vs2k5 as the "Supported" MS compiler? With c++0x Standard actually
> being implimented with some methods in vs2k8 and mostly in 2k10. Is it not
> time to really update our default toolset?
> >
> > At least lets get the patches in to fix 2k8, and get it officially
> supported. I despise 2k5, 28k is pretty solid now. 2k10 seems to be the
> vista of IDE's maybe 2k11 will be the win 7 =) Mostly due to the project
> based settings instead of global IDE includes which is a PITA even with
> Cmake.
> >
> > Id like to get LL's response on how long are we going to be stuck with
> 2k5 as the "official" compiler/ide.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> ---
> > This email is a private and confidential communication. Any use of email
> may be subject to the laws and regulations of the United States. You may not
> Repost, Distribute nor reproduce any content of this message.
> >
> ---
> >
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> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
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Re: [opensource-dev] Tools of the trade.

[Brandon Husbands]

Soon TM!

lol

SO i dont have to worry about installing 2k5 yet then.


On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:54 PM, Brad Kittenbrink (Brad Linden) <
b...@lindenlab.com> wrote:

> Funny, but no. It has been said that cmake is the worst IDE build system
> generator except all those others that have been tried.
>
> We are gonna try to ditch develop.py though.  And we're gonna start
> publishing the way we build all third party libs for the viewer.  We should
> be ready to show it off and talk about it in detail RealSoonNow.
>
> -Brad
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Brandon Husbands wrote:
>
>> You ditching Cmake?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We've been having this discussion internally for some time. There's a lot
>>> of friction because a) we have to update lots of developers, and b) we have
>>> to rebuild all the libraries and distribute them internally.
>>>
>>> We've been working on a tool called autobuild which will automate this
>>> process; it's almost ready. It should make it lots easier for us as well as
>>> opensource developers to get a build up and running, and will centralize the
>>> tool decisions so that we can finally upgrade fairly easily.
>>>
>>>Q
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 12:21 AM, Brandon Husbands wrote:
>>>
>>> > I understand that Licensing costs money but I do have a question. It is
>>> almost 2011 That's 6 years after Visual Studio was released.
>>> > I also know there are patches floating around for cmake and various
>>> other things that make VS2k8 compile properly. So I ask this, when is LL
>>> going to drop vs2k5 as the "Supported" MS compiler? With c++0x Standard
>>> actually being implimented with some methods in vs2k8 and mostly in 2k10. Is
>>> it not time to really update our default toolset?
>>> >
>>> > At least lets get the patches in to fix 2k8, and get it officially
>>> supported. I despise 2k5, 28k is pretty solid now. 2k10 seems to be the
>>> vista of IDE's maybe 2k11 will be the win 7 =) Mostly due to the project
>>> based settings instead of global IDE includes which is a PITA even with
>>> Cmake.
>>> >
>>> > Id like to get LL's response on how long are we going to be stuck with
>>> 2k5 as the "official" compiler/ide.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> ---
>>> > This email is a private and confidential communication. Any use of
>>> email may be subject to the laws and regulations of the United States. You
>>> may not Repost, Distribute nor reproduce any content of this message.
>>> >
>>> ---
>>> >
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>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Building Alignment Tool by Qarl Fizz

[Brandon Husbands]

Just write our implementation, not using any of his code.

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Argent Stonecutter  wrote:

>
> On 2010-10-22, at 14:00, Nalates Urriah wrote:
> >
> > Since the code is already written and working by a former Linden, will it
> be added to the SL Viewer?
>
> Qarl's comment that TPVs are free to use it and that his rates for Linden
> Lab are reasonable imply... not yet. :)
>
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