Re: [opensource-dev] Third party viewer policy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2010-02-24 15:28, Scott McCulley wrote: > In the case of known griefers, LL could simply disable access from > that mac address that is reported by the viewer, and the person > cannot get back in to the grid, regardless of IP or SL account. > The only way is to use a completely new computer with a different > mac address. Or, edit the ethernets card mac address, as this is changeably in software. In windows it's in the device manager. Using that for security sounds kinda stupid. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkuFOK8ACgkQtbR3SXmySrce6QCfduEy3PLGx477dk3FKHy50qtY FX0An2oM1kFoGIzc1MbaQHo9mqVuiufk =dv6e -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
Kevin Woolley wrote: > I own three Sims in SL, that's ~$600 a month or so to the Lindens, and > that's supported off DRM'ed content creation that I sell. If my income was > to vanish because of widespread content theft then I'd be out of SL. > > I find Hax's attitude extremely concerning. > > In fact I think we should now recognise that Open Sourcing the viewer has > been a mistake, and the Lindens should close it off again, possibly > replacing it with controlled licensed development. As a professional > developer who regularly makes use of Open Source, and has contributed on > occasion I am philosophically completely in favour of Open Source wherever > appropriate. Indeed that's why I subscribed to this list in the first place. > > I find this idea of putting once head into the sand as worrying. The copybotting started long before the viewer got open sourced. As long the content are being rendered on the client side there will be possibilities and these will be exploited. Several mistakes in the design of stuff making think easier that it need to be have been exposed and fixed in then open source viewers. The only solutions are om the social level, to make copying content not worth the effort, this involve work on all side. Making it easy to know how made the items, making the originals "affordable". Yes to high prices does make people make copies. People also make copies becasue no-copy items, no-mod items. To lower the rate of copied content we have to work on why people copy. With out that it wil never have any success. There been a nice illustration floating arounf the internet, showing the problems with DRM protections today, mostly on video media. http://www.techxav.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/piratelegal.jpg > choice needs to be made between protecting in-world content and the desire > to open source the viewer then there really is no choice - Open Source must > be sacrificed. > > The removing on the open source viewer will not do anything to help stoping the content copying. Sorry, to tell you this but it will not help. Look at all the other examples around, do they have comtent theft? Yes, Do they have open source viewers? No. Why do you think this would do anything on second life. As long anyone can sell content, it will gets copies in Second life. And if one can't sell it there it will be sold to other places. We have already seen that SL content have been ilicaly moved to different worlds Include the old google one, IMVU or whats it called. I'm sure that blue panet stuff have loots of copied sl content. The fight is against peoples moral and will, this has to change, trying to kill once favorite viewer. Does make the customers your enemy, if the customer turns enemis they are more likely to copy your content. > I see no reason why the Lindens could not adopt some for iPhone like model > for development of the viewer. Certainly from what I read here the Lindens > need to stop apologising and impose some sort of controlled gateway model > urgently. > The iPhone model is all about content creators, It would turn Second life into Entropia Universe. For me a step towards thats is a step in the wrong direction. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
Kevin Woolley wrote: > c. Create an 'iPhone' like walled garden. There are numerous ways you could > do this, for example required all connection to the grid to operate via a > licensed closed-source version of libsl which uses some form of > public/private key to identify itself. Or why not strip back the viewer so > it's analogous to the iPhone hardware and licence 'applet' development for > it? > > For sure iPhone aint jail-breaked and there are no iPhone apps on the piratebay some think the rates of copied content in iPhone is higher that any other phone. Sure looks like a bright future. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
Tigro Spottystripes wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Are the people selling illegal copies making that much money that fast? > > If they do, the content makers are sure bad in marketing -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
Maya Remblai wrote: > New Hax wrote: > >> but on the internet as a content maker you can make INFINITE products >> so you arent losing anything if i copy it and make no money off of it. >> >> > Not true. See the following example that actually happened to me: > > Person A rips a large number of products, including mine. He boxes them > and gives them away, for free, claiming he has my permission (which he > doesn't). Now, the total value of my products involved was $150 USD. If > he only gave the box to 10 people (it was actually more than that) I'm > now out $1500 USD. Person A has done a huge amount of monetary damage to > me by taking away sales. > Digital economy don't work that way, you may actually have gained if the people getting the box likes your products and tel about them. The loss is hard to evaluate, and your count is only sure to high, it's the theoretical max value in lost sales. Thats is giver all then copies have gone to someone even considering your products. and in my experience that likelihood is about 0%. Studies in the effects vary in there results, it seam clear the people using pirated stuff are the once most likely to spend money on products. Var the results are is hard to tell, but is sure that the content industry is one of the few getting bigger and earing more money through out the current downfall in the economy. Most other industries backed very much, entertainment have not been as hard effected. The online content industries have a all time high. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
Gareth Nelson wrote: > 736 iPhone apps on TPB to be precise - actually much lower than I > would have thought, although some of the torrents are hack tools and > packs of apps (one such torrent is 3.6GB and includes a few 100 > separate apps). > I think the number is very low on tpb because the iphone hack connects to an other source where you nsal hacked software from. I have not jailbreaked my iPhone so i don't have full knowledge in the details. Reports in swedish media talked about over 50% of the apps installed on iphones was pirate copies. I think the source thou was a few online highscore lists and may not be quite statistical off. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
Kevin Woolley wrote: > Oh sure, *obviously* you'll never prevent copying completely. But that's a > straw man - the difference here is between making life difficult for the > thieves (as Apple does - sufficiently so that the jailbreak/piratebay applet > market is no threat to iPhone developers) and leaving the doors and windows > open and unlocked as the Lindens are at the moment with their current Open > Source model. > What you fail to see it that the copy rate on iPhones is as high or even higher that on Second Life. This despite that apple makes it "hard" The threats is there, how ever the turnaround it still big enough to get people living off it. Then they los MORE in % that you. Why do you think that solutions would help you? Your contents is not open sourced, open source AHVE nothing and will never have anything to do with copying content form second life. What you fail to see is that the making stuff difficult most makes it difficult for the paying customes and much less so for the non paying customers. As Tomas showed you there are many reasons to copy, many that are driver by content creators willing making there product much harder to use. In attemps to make copying less, efforts that make the copies tsuff much better that the originals. We programmers of the client have made some workarounds for these problems, to make life easier again and make some of these ideas don't hinder customers as much as intended. > OK, we can argue about this philosophically backwards and forwards all you > want. The big difference is that whilst you may contribute the odd patch, > I, and other content creators like me pay the Lindens salary. As I say I > Do you know what content I sell? So you know how much I support the lindens with? If not, please take your argument someware else please. And by the way you have any idea how much one of these odd patches costs a software company to develop? You have any idea how much money a bug fix costs to find in development time? US$600 an month, Aint much payment for the work of one developer. I say thats maybe is enought fo fix one trivial know problem for the one that made it. You have any idea how many work hours that is? And if we remove the actually cost for the hosts, running the computers and so on you have any idea how much your money gives to developing the system making sure you get new versions and bugs fixed? We in additions to paying rent as you, also make bugfixes making it possibly for you to get as many prims for that price. > I'm aware this could sound a bit like "It's my ball and I'll take it home if > you don't play the game I want". It's not intended to - philosophically I'm > I suggest you try iPhone development instead, but don't come back here complain when your applications are pirated. Can we get back to finding solutions on how to lower the illegal copying? Your suggestions have been proven not to work. The fist copybot attacks on SL was before the open source viewer, they was bigger and the lossed in % of income looks as they been much bigger. This make all talk for your suggestions wil not work. BTW there are world out there that have close source viewers and Apple like developer licenses. They just lack a working economy, not that they don't try, not that they don't market. The users are missing, the creators are missing. Maybe there is a connection. When you can't make your own stuff, and give that away, why not use WoW? EVE Online? Entropia Universe? Maybe you are not interested in the philosophical sides, but making money form digital copies are all a game of physiology. It's about making people wanting to pay. You can't fore people to pay, not unless you are a government at least. There have been put so much money into this because people LIKE it to be true. They LIKE it to work, and every time it have failed. And yes it's possible to make money, it works all the time to make money, you say you make money. You think less happy people in the grid will give you more money? I'm sure the Lindens are turning to much towards protection and making life hard on users, I have seen this effect sales, Hardening the copy protections have med much more support and less profit, have made more unhappy customers. And it is effecting my possibilities to run my land form my sales. And yes i like the scrips to be no-mod, no-transfer and copy for my customers, and the items as such no-transfer, but copy and mod. Since i started some changed in the handling made this combinations harder for the customers to use. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Moving Content to Non-Prim worlds
Argent Stonecutter wrote: > On 2010-03-16, at 12:13, Daniel wrote: > >> - using encrypted 7zip archives to deliver content to end users >> > > This will end up having little effect, since the textures and geometry > can be pulled from the graphics card. > > There already exists programs to make this easy. Getting it to work for Blue Mars can't be a major work. >> - only allow registered developers to upload content and cash out >> - require renting a shop to sell items >> - do not have user-to-user item transfer >> > > This are more likely to be effective, but if SL had restrictions like > this in place it would be a very different (and far less rich and > vibrant and _profitable_) environment. Those three points may be more efficiant that any of the rest, it's also imho is going to make the world increative and dead... -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Moving Content to Non-Prim worlds
Daniel wrote: > Kevin wrote: > > We have already seen that SL content have been > ilicaly moved to different worlds Include the old google one, IMVU or > whats it called. I'm sure that blue panet stuff have loots of copied sl > content. > > - > > If you are referring to "Blue Mars", they do not have lots of anything yet, > since it is still early beta, but I tested moving objects from SL to Blue > Mars early on. It is possible, but not easy, since you have to convert prims > to editable polygons in some 3D program, and textures from .tga to .dds > format. > The tga to dds is quite simple, Textues are not tga in the pipe either, convertions could easy be done by any extractions tool. I have seen work to take xml lists form sl into 3d programs. > The texture settings beyond the filename (repeats, glow, etc) are entirely > different, and scripts are in LUA language rather than LSL, so are not > compatible. > Noone yet talked about copying scripts, it the langugaes are repotlu similat there wil be convertions thou. Why becase good content creators wil work on many markets and wil need the tools for this. > So the work involved is a significant fraction of what it takes to create an > item from scratch, and to do it you need the kind of knowledge a content > creator > needs to have. > > To limit (but not 100% prevent) illicit content from flooding their world, > they are: > > - using encrypted 7zip archives to deliver content to end users > But the encryption key is stored at the computer reciving the data, so this only protects the transfer, it's the same as using https in terms of security. But apperently they have been folling someone that it will protect content for the end user. > - only allow registered developers to upload content and cash out > - require renting a shop to sell items > - do not have user-to-user item transfer > > How successful these limits are remains to be seen. > The three last can have an impact, impact like on the other closed world, EvE Online etc. Sure they get users but possibilities get limited very much as well. I hope we don't get any limitaitons like that on second life. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
Gareth Nelson wrote: > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 10:03 PM, Glen Canaday wrote: > > But back on topic - regardless of all our unique individual political > views on copyright, it's definitely a bad bad idea for LL to encourage > copyright infringement on their platform - or anything illegal for > that matter - this is something we can agree on, yes? > > Definitely, copyright crimes hurt the small players most. > I'd hope another thing to be agreed on is that it's not good to > implement strong DRM measures and cripple legit users while at most > slowing down temporarily those who want to break the rules - yay or > nay? > I argue hard against DRM as it only hurts legitimate users and not the once breaking rules. They already breaks rules, so why not this as well.. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
Tigro Spottystripes wrote: > isn't that actually fair use? > > Yes most copyright laws allow you to make a personel riped copy of a movie. In the Us maybe the DMCA makes the tools for this illegal to make and sell. I'm not 100% about all details of US copyright law. I know the Swedish copyright laws much bettter. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Fixing the 2.0 chat bar focus problem?
Glen Canaday wrote: > Maybe it's *my* bias. I personally know of no gamers who'd use wasd who > have stayed in SL longer than a couple of months at best. > > Most of the people I have known in SL shop, go to clubs, create, RP, and > hang out, most of which requires chatting without an extra step to > switch focus. Leaving the chat bar with focus kills wasd movement, but I > can name no one who doesn't use the arrow keys for that. > > Roleplayers rage form the combate users, thert need wasd, DCS/CCS enviroemnt, to many others. WASD is the only you can use if you have the mouse to the right, as most righthanded people have. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Third party viewer policy: commencement date
Darmath wrote:
On 21/03/2010 9:01 PM, Boy Lane wrote:
Just a couple of paragraphs that are in direct conflict with each other:
"You [the developer] are in full compliance with the terms of the GNU
General Public License ("GPL"), if your application uses the source
code of the official Second Life viewer, which we have made available
under the GPL."
I'm trying to understand what is the problem with LL's requiring the
developer to make *a representation or warrant* to LL's that they
comply with the GPL if their TPV uses code released by LL's under the
GPL.
Thats the following lines done add limitations on the developer, that
aint in the GPL and the GPL clearly stated no further limitations can be
added. This part of the police i think all ir very happy with, at least
all developers, evem is not really needed. The GPL already states it.
According to Cl 8 of the GPL:
"You may not propagate or modify a covered work except as expressly
provided under this License"
To me it makes sense that LL's would require the developer to*
/represent/ *to them or/ *warrant */to them that they are in
compliance with the GPL. After all the developer has to comply with it
anyway. If a developer has doubts about providing a representation or
warranty about their compliance with the GPL shouldn't they be
thinking about whether or not they should be releasing the TPV at all?
Yes, but that you have to promise stuff hat maybe isn't compatible with
the GPL. And i think it's just a matter of bad wording from the LL legal
department...
"You [the developer] assume all risks, expenses, and defects of any
Third-Party Viewers that you use, develop, or distribute"
Are you trying to suggest that these are inconsistent with clauses 15
and 16 of the GPL? If so i don't think so. This clause isn't impacting
upon the liability of a developer of a TPV in relation to the users of
the TPV that they develop. Although I
Then is should be rewriten to state that... Policies should be made
understandbadle for anyone that should follow them. But if I agree on
this, in this context don't tat make me responsible for the damages
towars LL frm a user of my software? Could you expect anyone to really
take that on there shulders? Don't the faq try to say this is not what's
intended? And it the words is not the intentions should they not be changed?
"You [the developer] acknowledge and agree that we may require you to
stop using or distributing a Third-Party Viewer"
I don't really see any problems with this.
Thats it's against the GPL, words and spirit. It clearly adds a
limitation to the developer. The first part of 8c, would have covered,
the needs to protect the SL grid. With out breaking the GPL part, and
would have been whats trying to be defined in the FAQ and answers here.
"If a Third-Party Viewer or your use or distribution of it violates this
Policy or any Linden Lab policy, your permission to access Second Life
using the Third-Party Viewer shall terminate automatically. /You
acknowledge and agree that we may require you to stop using or
distributing a Third-Party Viewer for accessing Second Life if we
determine that there is a violation./"
Personally I think the OpenBSD license is much better, it's written i so
much clear language taht this kinds of hard to follow legal stuff don't
happen. But now we have GPL and GPL only to follow.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Third party viewer policy: commencement date
Tayra Dagostino wrote: > maybe we cannot sync this isn't a restriction against development > based on GPL, is a restriction against ability to connect LL grid with > a 3rd party viewer... > > Then why ain't it written like that? And i i like to use my viewer to connect to LL world DO i have to follow this rules, taking more responsibility for LL's code that LL ever done? > opposite, you are free to not acknoledge TPV, you continue to write > your GPL viewer and connect it to another grid... what changed if TPV > will merged in TOS? > > imho here there are too much noise against something not so big... > It's about following licences, and upholding the GPL, if you not belive in he GPL and software licenes, it's nothing if you belive in these. This is a big blow. The people writing this rules obviusly dont belive in GPL. Or understand it. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Wiki posting: Open Source Repository Strategy
For a first shot it looks fine. I hope thou in the furture snow-glow will hang in hg directly from the viewer-public the. Svn branches between will only make extra work not really needed. But no need to stress that extra work. A project like snowglow is the most gaining on a distributed cm system. Skickat från min iPhone 22 mar 2010 kl. 04.38 skrev "Kent Quirk (Q Linden)" : > Hi, all. I've created a draft of our repository strategy for how we > will be handling open development branches at LL, and posted an > annotated diagram on the wiki. > >https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Repository_Strategy > > Questions and constructive commentary are encouraged. Since it's > policy we intend to follow, please edit only for clarity. If it > needs substantive tweaking, please let us do it. > > Thanks, > >Q > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Open Development project: extendingavatarwearables
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 07:56:00PM -0400, Nyx Linden wrote: > further that such a system would only be effective for wearables you > have copy + mod permissions for. No worries for your own creation, but > few sold clothing pieces are so liberal to my understanding. Imho, the usable part be a "wear as..." for no mod items. They are the once really needing it. Leaving the need for copies just to get the different layers an almost obsolote need. -- o_ Anders Arnholm, o/ /\and...@arnholm.se /|_, \\http://anders.arnholm.se/ / ` -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Can you legally agree to incomprehensible conditions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Boy Lane skrev 2010-04-01 17.06: > And now Viewer 2.0 is the new holy grail. I really thought the 1.23 release > was bad. But now 2.0 even goes > against a major part of the resident population, handicapped people; > particular people with epilepsy/seizure disorders > (VWR-17249 - Viewer 2.0 is a violation of the Americans with Disabilities > Act). > http://jira.secondli If TPV banned from using as examples in the pJIRA now? http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-17249?focusedCommentId=178880&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#action_178880 Alexa Linden added a comment - 30/Mar/10 11:44 AM - edited Please be aware, Linking to 3rd party viewers is not appropriate for Pjira. Comments doing so will be deleted. Thank you Some time the dooomsday telling this is all to kille the open source tpv feels like more and more true. / Balp -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.12 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAku00qsACgkQtbR3SXmySrfb9wCfaleiUGKn6BoHnOY4AdXRB04L w1cAn074k6mPAN99UXzomxjeX4V9RvTS =cJ/E -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Can you legally agree to incomprehensible conditions
Glen Canaday wrote: > anyone who is known to have seen the LL server code. They can't be sure > there's no LL-proprietary licensing stuff going on. See this: > http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Contributions_Policy > > ... all of which I can completely understand. > No, the not reading viewer code in 6 mouths makes no sence at all. Makes the bug solutions a pain in the ass really. Any sencidle developer with two programs talking to each other, trying to solve a problem look at both codes. It does not break copyright laws. > related. I'm actually rather surprised no one's said anything about the > merges of GPL code into viewer-internal. That bugged me more than the > TPV stuff. > Sending in that fax and giveing the LL copyright for tha patches. We all knew that LL had an internal code base mixed with the server code containing non-gpl:ed code. / Balp -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Viewers in the directory are being impersonated already
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 02:30:24PM -0400, Robert Martin wrote: > Dusting off an old statement > > The 3PVp will be a semi joke until LL decides to put up a compile farm > and begin creating "signed builds". Even not using proxies and other > cloaking all somebody has to do is get the source for a listed viewer > and then hack and recompile. There is still no way a server on the internet can know what is running on the other end. The only into a build farm can add is the same as someone sign the build to tell the user it's matching a source code version. It's can however never protect the servers from any kind ofg hacked viewers with extra functions as save all to disk, overlaod others viewers. etc. -- o_ Anders Arnholm, o/ /\and...@arnholm.se /|_, \\http://anders.arnholm.se/ / ` -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVPTopics to a different mailing list
VR Hacks wrote: > Then the TPV policy does not apply to them. Though, again, and imo, it would > still be prudent for them to include a EULA with their binary distribution. > The EULA however in most of the world have no legal meaning, except it can give the user rights against the developer. For a license to be valid i have to be agreed by both parts before getting the product. Shrink wrap licenses and deals are frowed upon by most legal systems. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVPTopics to a different mailing list
Joel Foner wrote: > I wonder if anyone has an easy way to calculate the actual signal > (os-dev posts) to noise (legal posts) ratio on this list over, let's > say the last 30 days. It's getting hard to recall when the last actual > os-dev discussion happened. Maybe I'm just missing it. The legal issues, what you are allowed to write is IMHO as impoartant as the how to write stuff. Escially if the you are allowed to write stuff is in question. The TPV police is imho defiltly signal on the deveopler list. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the TPV directory ?
Nicky Perian wrote: > +1 > A blacklist would just give potential bad actors a menu and template > to use for more bad viewers that could be modified and get past the > login screens. Isn't just sending the login info form the laters offical viewer the bewst way to get passed techical blacklisting anyhow. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the TPV directory ?
Jonathan Irvin wrote: > Just an idea I think would be cool is if LL made a tool (perhaps a > script) that users could click on if they suspected their viewer to be > bad or something and it would cause the viewer to send the info to LL > for investigation. > > Perhaps also LL can have hashes of the viewer source code. Should it > not match or something, it won't allow them to connect or it would be > reported, etc. And what hash would you think a bad viewer would sent, it's own ot the offical LL viewers? -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?
2010-08-18 00:54, Brian McGroarty skrev: > This is correct. Andromeda Quonset will be Andromeda Quonset forever. > At some point, new residents won't be able to choose a last name - > only these will be "Resident" > > No existing script function will return different results than it does > today. New script functions are added for fetching/referencing Display > Names. > It will, the existsing functuons will give a name that users of the new viewers have no possibility to see, unless they use a script. Thats something totally different that the username today is. The name will have changed it definition. As by that the think the functions return have changed. It's no longer a unique name you can use to tell users around you who a person is. It's a hell of a change in use case. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?
2010-08-18 01:42, Aimee Linden skrev: > No, that's not the case, display names are not returned to the existing LSL > functions. Your existing account will always be seen as Andromeda Quonset to > existing scripts no matter what you change your display name to. > > New LSL calls used to return display names to new scripts equally will not be > a problem for older viewers either, what viewer you are running makes no > difference to a script which is running on the server. > > Aimee. > It will be, depenign on the use of the name returned. If you used the old LSL functions, users of the old viewers will understand the output of the scripts. But new users only having DispalyName-UserName will not have the connections and see chat as the old usernames, Using that for llSay() would be very confusing for the user. Script using the new interfaces will on the other hand be writing out DisplayNames, These displaynames will be impossible for users of the old viewers to connect to any person around. This makes the scripts not work for users of the old viewers. As scripter you Can't write a product that uses the name of the people around and get any good result. Any of the three names you choose will not work for one of the user groups. You are borked. Having unique names to be used for residents solved all the probems we have in like email systems with joe.a@example.com ... joe.z@example.com where no one knew who was a, b, z etc. The change will not only make working products fail for users of the new viewer, it will make it impossible to make a product that works for all users in the sim. / Balp -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement
2010-08-18 15:11, Timothy Horrigan skrev: Scripters have already had to deal with the case where an avi's name changes. The Lindens have always had the option to rename avis (e.g., if an offensive name falls through the filters during registration, if an innoucuous name becomes offensive due to news events, if a Linden loses his or her job, etc.) That's why most scripts specify the identity of a user through his or her UUID rather than his or her name. In fact the only way to use the avi name in a script is to have it first look up the UUID. With the new change the crips can't male a simple llSay() with the name the users around expect to see, one of the usergroups will see a name they have no idea what it is or is super ugly. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?
2010-08-18 20:19, Michael Schlenker skrev: > Am 18.08.2010 um 15:05 schrieb Argent: > > >> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Michael Schlenker >> wrote: >> Am 18.08.2010 um 01:16 schrieb Bryon Ruxton: >> >>> And 2. you should also prevent anyone to use a display name baring the name >>> of an existing username in my opinion. >>> >> >> NO. That would limit the usefulness for some kind of RP for sure. >> >> Can you elaborate on what kind of RP would require you to be able to set >> your display name to "Argent Stonecutter"? >> >> > Sure. Anywhere you wanna have uniform appearance, like having a bunch of > 'Agent Smith' AVs in black suits to give the > impression of identical twins or clones. > On the other hand in RL yuou can usally hear fomr where the voice comes, in text chat you can't. FOr the people, not LL, handling the most of the abuse greifing an other stuff, and the most common problem in any roleplay group Drama, text logs where names aint unique will be a terrible mess to sort out. They wil case new drama's as well. All sl roleplayers I know think this is about the worst they heard off EVER. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Blocking viewers.
On Thu, Sep 09, 2010 at 12:02:46AM +0200, Altair Sythos Memo wrote: > imho *ALL* non TPV listed viewers should be blacklisted > is safer, for both resident and developers It's also safer to put all humans in a straight jacket, that would also probaly solve most current enviroment problems. The downside does however still make most realise the down sides of this is way bigger that the gains. Most TPV's contains fixes that make them safer that the LL viewer, Linden have so far had a to slow acceptance of user fixes.Or for some reason not let them in. The new Snowstorm hopefulle helps this. There are still however much smell in the code, not more and in someplaces less that most big projects. But it's there all projects get them. And why the heck did i get my self involved again... I need my non coding time... / Balp -- o_ Anders Arnholm, o/ /\and...@arnholm.se /|_, \\http://anders.arnholm.se/ / ` -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:17:40AM +0200, Marine Kelley wrote: > - Don't breach the user's privacy (it doesn't disclose IMs or passwords or > anything personal, including what you are wearing) Ohh, thats why, now i finally undersnd why it's so hard to know how to use the detach commands. Using RLv and HUD's solva many problems in combat roleplay sims, like making gestures to change weapons. You can't make any short cut keys to attach a new weapons combinations today with out using RLv. Thanks for a great set of functions. -- o_ Anders Arnholm, o/ /\and...@arnholm.se /|_, \\http://anders.arnholm.se/ / ` -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Lindens way ahead of us
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 05:29:15AM -0300, Tigro Spottystripes wrote: > If we indeed are getting individual breast jiggle settings, that is a > great move by LL, i had already proposed a way for Emerald users to have > individual settings some time ago (embedding the parameters in the baked I'm not sure what expensive renderings i should be able to have enables should be on the other side. The breasts moment are about adding realism, it takes rendering cost and kills tons of attachments. The probels added with other parts moving ARE much bigger. How attachment work win the moving part is really hard to get right. The emerals solotions really should need a right/left nipple attackmant point. We should also need the possibility for obejste to flex between two, or more attackmants points. To make a realistic teeshirt needs, three reference points, the spine/cheat and the two nipples. I would love to see a tee that dorks and don't look like a bodypainting. -- o_ Anders Arnholm, o/ /\and...@arnholm.se /|_, \\http://anders.arnholm.se/ / ` -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
