[opensource-dev] Draft update to the Contribution Agreement

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

As most of you probably know, Linden Lab acquired Desura^(TM), a digital 
distribution service for PC gamers.


The code for the Desura client is open source, managed as the Desurium 
project on github .  The Desurium 
project used a different open source licenses (GPLv3) than we use for 
the Second Life Viewer project, and had its own Contribution Agreement.


After some discussion with both Second Life and Desurium contributors, 
Linden Lab has produced a draft of a new Contributor License Agreement 
 
that we would like to use for both projects in the future.  This email 
is an invitation to contributors and potential contributors to discuss 
that draft here.


--
*Scott Lawrence* | /Director of Open Development/
Skype ozlinden  | Second Life Oz Linden 



Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces 
Check out what we're working on! 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Draft update to the Contribution Agreement

[Darien Caldwell]

Well, It certainly is interesting. The gist seems to be, LL becomes a full
co-owner of the contribution, including owning half of any copyright or
patent claims to any submitted contribution. This is sensible, as any
contribution becomes a core part of LL's business. I do like that LL now
takes up the mantle of defending against any infringement themselves,
rather than leaving that seemingly in the contributor's hands. I think it
also does a better job of making clear that the contribution still belongs
(in part) to the contributor, and that they can still do anything, and
everything they want to do with it, as long as that doesn't involve
removing that same right from LL, their 'partner'.

But of course the core objection most have is still there, that the
'partnership' is a bit lopsided. But If you were already comfortable with
contributing code with no expectation of financial gain, I don't see
anything that would change that feeling of comfort.

- Dari

On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)  wrote:

>  As most of you probably know, Linden Lab acquired Desura™, a digital
> distribution service for PC gamers.
>
> The code for the Desura client is open source, managed as the Desurium
> project on github .  The Desurium
> project used a different open source licenses (GPLv3) than we use for the
> Second Life Viewer project, and had its own Contribution Agreement.
>
> After some discussion with both Second Life and Desurium contributors,
> Linden Lab has produced a draft of a new Contributor License 
> Agreementthat
>  we would like to use for both projects in the future.  This email is
> an invitation to contributors and potential contributors to discuss that
> draft here.
>
> --
>  *Scott Lawrence* | *Director of Open Development*
> Skype ozlinden | Second Life Oz Linden
>
> Linden Lab | Makers of Shared Creative Spaces 
> Check out what we're working on! 
>
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Draft update to the Contribution Agreement

[Henri Beauchamp]

On Mon, 07 Oct 2013 12:34:45 -0400, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:

> As most of you probably know, Linden Lab acquired Desura^(TM), a digital 
> distribution service for PC gamers.
> 
> The code for the Desura client is open source, managed as the Desurium 
> project on github .  The Desurium 
> project used a different open source licenses (GPLv3) than we use for 
> the Second Life Viewer project, and had its own Contribution Agreement.
> 
> After some discussion with both Second Life and Desurium contributors, 
> Linden Lab has produced a draft of a new Contributor License Agreement 
> 
>  
> that we would like to use for both projects in the future.  This email 
> is an invitation to contributors and potential contributors to discuss 
> that draft here.

This CA, just like the previous one, violates the contributors' right
to privacy by requesting the contributor's snail mail address and phone
number (!?!?!) and as such, is illegal in France (law "Informatique et
Liberté": http://www.cnil.fr/fileadmin/documents/en/Act78-17VA.pdf - See
chapter II, article 6, paragraph 3).
Note that such info is not only excessive for the purpose (in case of a
legal dispute, an US judge can get my private address from the French
justice, based on my IP address which my ISP will be legally tied to
disclose on a judge's demand), but it is also unreliable and thus,
perfectly useless (what about persons who move or simply change their
ISP and thus their phone number ?).

I will not sign such a CA... unless Linden Lab's employees all provide
me with their own snail mail address and private phone numbers, LOL !!!

Henri.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Draft update to the Contribution Agreement

[Nicky Perian]

The original CLA may have same items and I just did not catch that casual 
verbal / oral conversations unless prefaced with "this is not a contribution"  
would be considered a contribution. For me, that puts a chill on discussing 
with any LL employee the technical feasibility of an idea that may or may not 
become a contribution.





>
> From: Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) 
>To: opensource-dev  
>Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 11:34 AM
>Subject: [opensource-dev] Draft update to the Contribution Agreement
> 
>
>
>As most of you probably know, Linden Lab acquired Desura™, a digital 
>distribution service for PC gamers.
>
>The code for the Desura client is open source, managed as the Desurium project 
>on github.  The Desurium project used a different open source licenses (GPLv3) 
>than we use for the Second Life Viewer project, and had its own Contribution 
>Agreement. 
>
>After some discussion with both Second Life and Desurium
contributors, Linden Lab has produced a draft of a new Contributor License 
Agreement that we would like to use for both projects in the future.  This 
email is an invitation to contributors and potential contributors to discuss 
that draft here.
>
>
>-- 
>
>Scott Lawrence | Director of Open Development
>Skype ozlinden | Second Life Oz Linden
>
>Linden Lab| Makers of Shared Creative Spaces
>Check out what we're working on! 
>___
>Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Draft update to the Contribution Agreement

[Darien Caldwell]

Or to put in simpler terms, If you don't want to give LL an idea, then
absolutely, do not talk to them about it.  Which you would think would be
common sense. :)
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Re: [opensource-dev] Draft update to the Contribution Agreement

[Darien Caldwell]

I would say that's probably the Intent. If you're trying to pry details out
of LL employees, with full knowledge you never intend to actually
contribute the result, why should LL assist you in that?

However, if you do intend to contribute, discussing the contribution with
the understanding the discussion is contributory, would have no net effect
on outcome. You'd already be contributing what you intend to contribute
later.

LL is simply protecting themselves from the scenario where someone mentions
some idea, and Later LL does something similar, and then said person starts
screaming "LL stole my idea".  Because this happens a lot, in all creative
fields (TV, Movies, Music, Games, and software).  This just lays it out
clearly: "If you discuss something with us, don't expect us to magically
forget it."

 - Dari
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Nicky Perian  wrote:

> The original CLA may have same items and I just did not catch that casual
> verbal / oral conversations unless prefaced with "this is not a
> contribution"  would be considered a contribution. For me, that puts a
> chill on discussing with any LL employee the technical feasibility of an
> idea that may or may not become a contribution.
>
>
>
>   --
>  *From:* Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) 
> *To:* opensource-dev 
> *Sent:* Monday, October 7, 2013 11:34 AM
> *Subject:* [opensource-dev] Draft update to the Contribution Agreement
>
>  As most of you probably know, Linden Lab acquired Desura™, a digital
> distribution service for PC gamers.
>
> The code for the Desura client is open source, managed as the Desurium
> project on github .  The Desurium
> project used a different open source licenses (GPLv3) than we use for the
> Second Life Viewer project, and had its own Contribution Agreement.
>
> After some discussion with both Second Life and Desurium contributors,
> Linden Lab has produced a draft of a new Contributor License 
> Agreementthat
>  we would like to use for both projects in the future.  This email is
> an invitation to contributors and potential contributors to discuss that
> draft here.
>
> --
>  *Scott Lawrence* | *Director of Open Development*
> Skype ozlinden | Second Life Oz Linden
>
> Linden Lab | Makers of Shared Creative Spaces 
> Check out what we're working on! 
>
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
>
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Draft update to the Contribution Agreement

[Andromeda Quonset]

At 10:50 AM 10/7/2013, you wrote:

>This CA, just like the previous one, violates the contributors' right
>to privacy by requesting the contributor's snail mail address and phone
>number (!?!?!) and as such, is illegal in France (law "Informatique et
>Liberté": http://www.cnil.fr/fileadmin/documents/en/Act78-17VA.pdf - See
>chapter II, article 6, paragraph 3).
>Note that such info is not only excessive for the purpose (in case of a
>legal dispute, an US judge can get my private address from the French
>justice, based on my IP address which my ISP will be legally tied to
>disclose on a judge's demand), but it is also unreliable and thus,
>perfectly useless (what about persons who move or simply change their
>ISP and thus their phone number ?).
>
>I will not sign such a CA... unless Linden Lab's employees all provide
>me with their own snail mail address and private phone numbers, LOL !!!
>
>Henri.

Henri:

I am simply curious and don't want to cause any 
argument or additional arguments about the 
matter, and I support everyone's rights to privacy.

I just looked at 
http://www.cnil.fr/fileadmin/documents/en/Act78-17VA.pdf 
- See chapter II, article 6, paragraph 3

That reads as follows:

3° they shall be adequate, relevant and not 
excessive in relation to the purposes for which they are
obtained and their further processing;

I don't understand how that applies.

The other question I would ask you:  when you 
register any original written work for a 
copyright in France, don't you have to put in 
some kind of identifying information?

Regards,
Andromeda Quonset 

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Re: [opensource-dev] Draft update to the Contribution Agreement

[Henri Beauchamp]

On Mon, 07 Oct 2013 15:29:56 -0700, Andromeda Quonset wrote:

> Henri:
> 
> I am simply curious and don't want to cause any 
> argument or additional arguments about the 
> matter, and I support everyone's rights to privacy.
> 
> I just looked at 
> http://www.cnil.fr/fileadmin/documents/en/Act78-17VA.pdf 
> - See chapter II, article 6, paragraph 3
> 
> That reads as follows:
> 
> 3° they shall be adequate, relevant and not 
> excessive in relation to the purposes for which they are
> obtained and their further processing;
> 
> I don't understand how that applies.

The requested info (snail mail address and private phone number)
are simply "excessive in relation for the purpose" (identifying
an author: see below).
Beside, that info is irrelevant to LL since it can change without
them being notified (the author in question may move and/or change
their phone number: mine changed 5 times in the last 10 years, due
to lines being opened, then closed depending on my needs and moves,
and to 2 ISP changes; I also already moved 3 times in 20 years).
All what it results into is putting the author's RL data at risk
of being "outed" on Internet and stalked in RL.

> The other question I would ask you:  when you register any
> original written work for a copyright in France, don't you
> have to put in some kind of identifying information?

The forename, family name and your signature are enough
(normally complemented with your birthdate). Again, your
address and phone number may change anytime and are perfectly
*irrelevant*.

I will also remind you how, back in 2007, LL got its customers'
payment data stolen by pirates... The stolen file was allegedly
crypted, but it doesn't change a fact: databases are vulnerable,
and I'm not going to endanger my privacy on Internet, in any way.
Call me paranoid if you wish, but my point is valid nonetheless.

Henri.
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