[opensource-dev] a Thought on fixing mega prims

[Robert Martin]

Im just dartboarding this but would it be possible to have some sort
of secondary center marker on the ends of prims to enable showing that
a prim encroaches on a neighboring parcel??
(primary center would be the geometric center of the object and the
secondary centers would be the ends of the X Y and Z axis or the
centers of each face of the bounding box)

i would think that raising the limit to 63|4 meters would be good enough.

-- 
Robert L Martin
and yes this still does not cover a large prim covering 3 or more small parcels
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Re: [opensource-dev] a Thought on fixing mega prims

[Dale Mahalko]

If you want to see where any type of prim (not just mega) encroaches
on neighboring parcels, it could be done by having a 2D "virtual
shadow" under the prim while the object is being moved/rotated, as if
cast by a light source infinitely high above the object.

Where the virtual shadow crosses into neighboring / nongroup parcels,
that portion of the shadow could be highlighted to let the person see
where they are encroaching, and they can interactively move/rotate the
object to minimize the highlighted overlap.

For objects in the sky, the virtual shadow could be cast onto a
translucent 2D representation of the parcel borders below, and which
disappears when moving/rotating stops.

- Dale Mahalko / Scalar Tardis



On 9/17/10, Robert Martin  wrote:
> Im just dartboarding this but would it be possible to have some sort
> of secondary center marker on the ends of prims to enable showing that
> a prim encroaches on a neighboring parcel??
> (primary center would be the geometric center of the object and the
> secondary centers would be the ends of the X Y and Z axis or the
> centers of each face of the bounding box)
>
> i would think that raising the limit to 63|4 meters would be good enough.
>
> --
> Robert L Martin
> and yes this still does not cover a large prim covering 3 or more small
> parcels
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Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Monty Brandenberg]

On 9/16/2010 7:36 PM, Dale Mahalko wrote:

> This cache would much simpler than the layered mess of caches
> currently used, and it would give a speed boost over the constant JP2
> to RGB mipmap decoding and discarding that is in place now. Decode
> once and don't ever do it again.

Speaking for myself, I'm all for fewer and simpler caches
along with instrumentation to back up the performance story.
(We got into this situation by having too much of the former
and not enough of the latter.)

> But I know it is just a dream. LL will never let it happen since it
> will lay bare the data contents of every prim, texture, and object in
> the virtual world, rather than obfuscating asset storage within the
> current VFS / JP2 method.

I don't think we have any illusions about content exposure but
whether there would be an issue with any particular approach is
beyond my pay scale.  Worth asking the leads *before* spending
time on development.

-- 
Monty Brandenberg 617.401.2384
mo...@lindenlab.com
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Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Ponzu]

General concensus and *working code*.

Go for it.

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Brandon Husbands  wrote:
> You could technically watermark the images and have the display code just
> remove that mark.
> If it cant find the mark its considered corrupt.
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 6:45 PM, JB Hancroft  wrote:
>>
>> >  This viewer would get blacklisted before it ever got out the door.
>>
>> Because... it would be non-compliant in some way?
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Dale Mahalko  wrote:
>>>
>>> I just don't have the motivation for it myself, but I would really
>>> like it if a 3rd party developer would gut out LL's texture cache and
>>> eliminate the VFS, and replace them with a simple disk cache that
>>> writes all assets in raw format, with files named by UUID on disk.
>>>
>>> * Decode all JPEG2000's once, to all levels of mipmap scale, and write
>>> the raw RGB mipmaps to disk as individual files (UUID+mipscale.bmp),
>>> discarding the source JP2's.
>>>
>>> * Decode all OGGs to WAV once, and write the raw WAV to disk,
>>> discarding the OGGs.
>>>
>>> * Oh, and don't ever delete any assets until your dedicated 2 terabyte
>>> cache drive is 99.99% full.
>>>
>>> * Let the local operating system deal with the file caching. If you
>>> have 4+ gig of system memory, let the OS manage it for caching
>>> frequently accessed world data.
>>>
>>> This cache would much simpler than the layered mess of caches
>>> currently used, and it would give a speed boost over the constant JP2
>>> to RGB mipmap decoding and discarding that is in place now. Decode
>>> once and don't ever do it again.
>>>
>>> ,
>>>
>>> But I know it is just a dream. LL will never let it happen since it
>>> will lay bare the data contents of every prim, texture, and object in
>>> the virtual world, rather than obfuscating asset storage within the
>>> current VFS / JP2 method.
>>>
>>> This viewer would get blacklisted before it ever got out the door.
>>>
>>> - Dale Mahalko / Scalar Tardis
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Ponzu]

Brandon.  Thank you for the pointless insult.

regards,
lee

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Brandon Husbands  wrote:
> Who made the choice on the side bar lol, You do know mozilla has a
> sidebar and book mark  side bars etc... None uses that also.
>
>>
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Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Lillian Yiyuan]

Yes gutting the cache helps a lot. So does dumping a copy of the cache
into a folder with the name of a sim, and on change to a
non-contingous sim swapping where the cache points to so that suddenly
the cache from the last visit to that sim is used.

No, it's not compliant, because the most efficient case exposes all content.

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Ponzu  wrote:
> General concensus and *working code*.
>
> Go for it.
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Brandon Husbands  wrote:
>> You could technically watermark the images and have the display code just
>> remove that mark.
>> If it cant find the mark its considered corrupt.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 6:45 PM, JB Hancroft  wrote:
>>>
>>> >  This viewer would get blacklisted before it ever got out the door.
>>>
>>> Because... it would be non-compliant in some way?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Dale Mahalko  wrote:

 I just don't have the motivation for it myself, but I would really
 like it if a 3rd party developer would gut out LL's texture cache and
 eliminate the VFS, and replace them with a simple disk cache that
 writes all assets in raw format, with files named by UUID on disk.

 * Decode all JPEG2000's once, to all levels of mipmap scale, and write
 the raw RGB mipmaps to disk as individual files (UUID+mipscale.bmp),
 discarding the source JP2's.

 * Decode all OGGs to WAV once, and write the raw WAV to disk,
 discarding the OGGs.

 * Oh, and don't ever delete any assets until your dedicated 2 terabyte
 cache drive is 99.99% full.

 * Let the local operating system deal with the file caching. If you
 have 4+ gig of system memory, let the OS manage it for caching
 frequently accessed world data.

 This cache would much simpler than the layered mess of caches
 currently used, and it would give a speed boost over the constant JP2
 to RGB mipmap decoding and discarding that is in place now. Decode
 once and don't ever do it again.

 ,

 But I know it is just a dream. LL will never let it happen since it
 will lay bare the data contents of every prim, texture, and object in
 the virtual world, rather than obfuscating asset storage within the
 current VFS / JP2 method.

 This viewer would get blacklisted before it ever got out the door.

 - Dale Mahalko / Scalar Tardis
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 Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
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Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Marc Adored]

I think that maybe "places" should have scores of how often they are
visted to determine how long the cache of that place is stored. So
since every login you start at home it would have a high score
therefore the cache would be stored for a longer period of time. Same
goes for places you visit often. This would remove any interaction
needed by the user because the system would pretty much auto detect
what places you would have as a favorite...

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Kelly Linden  wrote:
> Strictly speaking I think you have the stories and tasks reversed here.
>
> As a user I'd like to be able to use a greater portion of my available disk
> to improve the SL experience.
> * Task: Improve the cache system to allow larger caches
>
> As a user I'd like the places I visit most often, like my 'home' and
> favorites, to load more quickly
> * Task: Improve the cache system to not discard data for my home (at least
> not for a while)
> * Task: Improve the cache system to not discard data for my 'favorites'
> places (at least not for a while)
>
> As a user I'd like to never have to clear the cache to fix a bug
> * Task: Implement a quick and efficient inventory verification to find
> inventory cache discrepancies.
> * Task: (Are there other common bugs that require a cache clear to fix?)
>
> Improving the cache system is a task (actually multiple tasks) used to
> accomplish the three experience stories you have. Stories should generally
> be about the end experience, not the underlying system or how the
> experiences will be fixed. Yes, that is a rough guide, especially for many
> stories where the actor is 'a developer', but it helps still. :)
>
> That said these are great ideas, and should definitely be on a backlog
> somewhere if they aren't. I know we have discussed all of them at one point
> or another.
>
>  - Kelly
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Daniel  wrote:
>>
>>  As a user I would like to see an improved cache in order to have a
>> better Second Life experience.  The types
>> of improvements that would lead to a better experience include:
>>
>> * A higher cache size limit.  This would let me save more data and speed
>> up rez times, and also put less
>> load on the server side, since it would not have to refresh discarded
>> data as often.  Modern hard drives
>> are much much larger than the current 1 GB limit, and I should be able
>> to allocate more storage to
>> my Second Life data if it improves performance.
>>
>> * Ability to set certain locations as "home" or "favorites", and to
>> never discard or preferentially keep those
>> locations in cache.  Places I know I will visit often should not be
>> discarded just because I happen to visit
>> several other locations in the course of a session.
>>
>> * More reliability in cache storage, leading to less often need to
>> delete cache to fix a problem caused by
>> cache corruption.  A low level inventory verification (meaning it does
>> not take a large percentage of viewer
>> resources) to ensure it matches the asset database is an example, but
>> technical implementation I will leave
>> to programmers.  The desired result is less frequent issues like
>> apparent inventory loss, which upsets users
>> and leads to support tickets.
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[opensource-dev] Where to put & look for test viewers

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

 We have lots of community members who are ready and willing to try out 
the latest and greatest experiments and fixes from developers, and 
plenty of developers who have things that need testing (especially in 
circumstances and on platforms that the develop might not have).


The trick is getting the viewers from the latter to the former...

I've added a section at the top of the Downloading test builds wiki page 
 to help with 
this, and created a wiki template to simplify adding entries there.


Please take advantage of this for publishing viewers you'd like someone 
to test, and for finding the latest and greatest toys to play with.


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Re: [opensource-dev] a Thought on fixing mega prims

[Ricky]

Or the vertex glow color changes for that part of the prim/object that
is over the other parcel...

Just throwing out another idea.

Ricky
Cron Stardust

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 6:53 AM, Dale Mahalko  wrote:
> If you want to see where any type of prim (not just mega) encroaches
> on neighboring parcels, it could be done by having a 2D "virtual
> shadow" under the prim while the object is being moved/rotated, as if
> cast by a light source infinitely high above the object.
>
> Where the virtual shadow crosses into neighboring / nongroup parcels,
> that portion of the shadow could be highlighted to let the person see
> where they are encroaching, and they can interactively move/rotate the
> object to minimize the highlighted overlap.
>
> For objects in the sky, the virtual shadow could be cast onto a
> translucent 2D representation of the parcel borders below, and which
> disappears when moving/rotating stops.
>
> - Dale Mahalko / Scalar Tardis
>
>
>
> On 9/17/10, Robert Martin  wrote:
>> Im just dartboarding this but would it be possible to have some sort
>> of secondary center marker on the ends of prims to enable showing that
>> a prim encroaches on a neighboring parcel??
>> (primary center would be the geometric center of the object and the
>> secondary centers would be the ends of the X Y and Z axis or the
>> centers of each face of the bounding box)
>>
>> i would think that raising the limit to 63|4 meters would be good enough.
>>
>> --
>> Robert L Martin
>> and yes this still does not cover a large prim covering 3 or more small
>> parcels
>> ___
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Re: [opensource-dev] Where to put & look for test viewers

[Tom Grimshaw]

 On 17/09/2010 17:16, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
We have lots of community members who are ready and willing to try out 
the latest and greatest experiments and fixes from developers,

Are viewers with experimental OpenSim-targeted features welcome there?

~T
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Re: [opensource-dev] Where to put & look for test viewers

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

 On 2010-09-17 12:20, Tom Grimshaw wrote:

On 17/09/2010 17:16, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
We have lots of community members who are ready and willing to try 
out the latest and greatest experiments and fixes from developers,

Are viewers with experimental OpenSim-targeted features welcome there?


I don't mind, as long as they are Second Life compatible, and TPV 
compliant when connected to Second Life.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Where to put & look for test viewers

[Zha Ewry]

Good answer, Oz ;-)

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) <
o...@lindenlab.com> wrote:

>  On 2010-09-17 12:20, Tom Grimshaw wrote:
>
> On 17/09/2010 17:16, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
>
> We have lots of community members who are ready and willing to try out the
> latest and greatest experiments and fixes from developers,
>
> Are viewers with experimental OpenSim-targeted features welcome there?
>
>
> I don't mind, as long as they are Second Life compatible, and TPV compliant
> when connected to Second Life.
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Ponzu]

But some users want to be able to override this.  I want a certain
location to always load fast, even if I rarely visit it.

User story:  I want to mark certain locations as "Fast Loading" even
if I do not visit them very often.  This should override the automatic
behavior of the system.



On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Marc Adored  wrote:
> I think that maybe "places" should have scores of how often they are
> visted to determine how long the cache of that place is stored. So
> since every login you start at home it would have a high score
> therefore the cache would be stored for a longer period of time. Same
> goes for places you visit often. This would remove any interaction
> needed by the user because the system would pretty much auto detect
> what places you would have as a favorite...
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Kelly Linden  wrote:
>> Strictly speaking I think you have the stories and tasks reversed here.
>>
>> As a user I'd like to be able to use a greater portion of my available disk
>> to improve the SL experience.
>> * Task: Improve the cache system to allow larger caches
>>
>> As a user I'd like the places I visit most often, like my 'home' and
>> favorites, to load more quickly
>> * Task: Improve the cache system to not discard data for my home (at least
>> not for a while)
>> * Task: Improve the cache system to not discard data for my 'favorites'
>> places (at least not for a while)
>>
>> As a user I'd like to never have to clear the cache to fix a bug
>> * Task: Implement a quick and efficient inventory verification to find
>> inventory cache discrepancies.
>> * Task: (Are there other common bugs that require a cache clear to fix?)
>>
>> Improving the cache system is a task (actually multiple tasks) used to
>> accomplish the three experience stories you have. Stories should generally
>> be about the end experience, not the underlying system or how the
>> experiences will be fixed. Yes, that is a rough guide, especially for many
>> stories where the actor is 'a developer', but it helps still. :)
>>
>> That said these are great ideas, and should definitely be on a backlog
>> somewhere if they aren't. I know we have discussed all of them at one point
>> or another.
>>
>>  - Kelly
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Daniel  wrote:
>>>
>>>  As a user I would like to see an improved cache in order to have a
>>> better Second Life experience.  The types
>>> of improvements that would lead to a better experience include:
>>>
>>> * A higher cache size limit.  This would let me save more data and speed
>>> up rez times, and also put less
>>> load on the server side, since it would not have to refresh discarded
>>> data as often.  Modern hard drives
>>> are much much larger than the current 1 GB limit, and I should be able
>>> to allocate more storage to
>>> my Second Life data if it improves performance.
>>>
>>> * Ability to set certain locations as "home" or "favorites", and to
>>> never discard or preferentially keep those
>>> locations in cache.  Places I know I will visit often should not be
>>> discarded just because I happen to visit
>>> several other locations in the course of a session.
>>>
>>> * More reliability in cache storage, leading to less often need to
>>> delete cache to fix a problem caused by
>>> cache corruption.  A low level inventory verification (meaning it does
>>> not take a large percentage of viewer
>>> resources) to ensure it matches the asset database is an example, but
>>> technical implementation I will leave
>>> to programmers.  The desired result is less frequent issues like
>>> apparent inventory loss, which upsets users
>>> and leads to support tickets.
>>> ___
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>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
>>> privileges
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Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

  On 2010-09-17 12:56, Ponzu wrote:
> But some users want to be able to override this.  I want a certain
> location to always load fast, even if I rarely visit it.
>
> User story:  I want to mark certain locations as "Fast Loading" even
> if I do not visit them very often.  This should override the automatic
> behavior of the system.

Even if the cache had such controls, note that if anything changes at 
the location while you're away (and the longer you have between visits, 
the more likely that is), then it won't load from cache anyway.

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Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Daniel Smith]

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Ponzu  wrote:

> But some users want to be able to override this.  I want a certain
> location to always load fast, even if I rarely visit it.
>
> User story:  I want to mark certain locations as "Fast Loading" even
> if I do not visit them very often.  This should override the automatic
> behavior of the system.
>
>
A passive means of ranking a cache would be:

1) did the user already have an LM here?
2) did an object just give a user an LM to this place?
3) did the user just proactively create an LM?

These are 3 distinct cases.  #1 and #3 imply that the user has an interest
in coming back, and is likely to want an ongoing cache.  #2 implies that a
store / venue etc may have given the user an LM they didn't want.

Another case is:  if a user deletes an LM, it implies they may want to free
up the cache for that location as well.

Daniel



> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Marc Adored 
> wrote:
> > I think that maybe "places" should have scores of how often they are
> > visted to determine how long the cache of that place is stored. So
> > since every login you start at home it would have a high score
> > therefore the cache would be stored for a longer period of time. Same
> > goes for places you visit often. This would remove any interaction
> > needed by the user because the system would pretty much auto detect
> > what places you would have as a favorite...
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Kelly Linden 
> wrote:
> >> Strictly speaking I think you have the stories and tasks reversed here.
> >>
> >> As a user I'd like to be able to use a greater portion of my available
> disk
> >> to improve the SL experience.
> >> * Task: Improve the cache system to allow larger caches
> >>
> >> As a user I'd like the places I visit most often, like my 'home' and
> >> favorites, to load more quickly
> >> * Task: Improve the cache system to not discard data for my home (at
> least
> >> not for a while)
> >> * Task: Improve the cache system to not discard data for my 'favorites'
> >> places (at least not for a while)
> >>
> >> As a user I'd like to never have to clear the cache to fix a bug
> >> * Task: Implement a quick and efficient inventory verification to find
> >> inventory cache discrepancies.
> >> * Task: (Are there other common bugs that require a cache clear to fix?)
> >>
> >> Improving the cache system is a task (actually multiple tasks) used to
> >> accomplish the three experience stories you have. Stories should
> generally
> >> be about the end experience, not the underlying system or how the
> >> experiences will be fixed. Yes, that is a rough guide, especially for
> many
> >> stories where the actor is 'a developer', but it helps still. :)
> >>
> >> That said these are great ideas, and should definitely be on a backlog
> >> somewhere if they aren't. I know we have discussed all of them at one
> point
> >> or another.
> >>
> >>  - Kelly
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Daniel 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  As a user I would like to see an improved cache in order to have a
> >>> better Second Life experience.  The types
> >>> of improvements that would lead to a better experience include:
> >>>
> >>> * A higher cache size limit.  This would let me save more data and
> speed
> >>> up rez times, and also put less
> >>> load on the server side, since it would not have to refresh discarded
> >>> data as often.  Modern hard drives
> >>> are much much larger than the current 1 GB limit, and I should be able
> >>> to allocate more storage to
> >>> my Second Life data if it improves performance.
> >>>
> >>> * Ability to set certain locations as "home" or "favorites", and to
> >>> never discard or preferentially keep those
> >>> locations in cache.  Places I know I will visit often should not be
> >>> discarded just because I happen to visit
> >>> several other locations in the course of a session.
> >>>
> >>> * More reliability in cache storage, leading to less often need to
> >>> delete cache to fix a problem caused by
> >>> cache corruption.  A low level inventory verification (meaning it does
> >>> not take a large percentage of viewer
> >>> resources) to ensure it matches the asset database is an example, but
> >>> technical implementation I will leave
> >>> to programmers.  The desired result is less frequent issues like
> >>> apparent inventory loss, which upsets users
> >>> and leads to support tickets.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Where to put & look for test viewers

[Ponzu]

When will Snowstorm post a Development Viewer Snapshot - TBD

8-)

lee

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)
 wrote:

>
> I've added a section at the top of the Downloading test builds wiki page to
> help with this, and created a wiki template to simplify adding entries
> there.
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Brandon Husbands]

It was a serious question. I wanted to know if LL did it or a 3rd party
contractor. not a insult.

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Ponzu  wrote:

> Brandon.  Thank you for the pointless insult.
>
> regards,
> lee
>
> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Brandon Husbands 
> wrote:
> > Who made the choice on the side bar lol, You do know mozilla has a
> > sidebar and book mark  side bars etc... None uses that also.
> >
> >>
>



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Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Sythos]

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 10:17:27 -0700
Daniel Smith  wrote:


> A passive means of ranking a cache would be:
> 
> 1) did the user already have an LM here?
> 2) did an object just give a user an LM to this place?
> 3) did the user just proactively create an LM?
> 
> These are 3 distinct cases.  #1 and #3 imply that the user has an
> interest in coming back, and is likely to want an ongoing cache.  #2
> implies that a store / venue etc may have given the user an LM they
> didn't want.

Ram is a lot faster than cache-on-disk, caching on disk may cause more
lag while you force a re-check everytime you see it, and each file
should be CRCsummed and matched with one on asset (sims aren't static,
textures from avatar too).
There aren't tools to assure to an agent him cached texture is still
one cached the teleport before...
I think ins't so easy

> Another case is:  if a user deletes an LM, it implies they may want
> to free up the cache for that location as well.

don't understand, cache should store all textures for a whole sims just
why i've bookmarkd a LM? O_o
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[opensource-dev] Looking for a PJIRA entry about build grid UI bug with deferred rendering enabled

[Opensource Obscure]

When Deferred Rendering is enabled and you're in 
building mode, the RGB arrows that you use to move 
prims don't "stop" at the prim surface anymore.

Deferred Rendering OFF:
http://m.friendfeed-media.com/948b6fc14d7ec63ec01a1f8f253a48869c6cbcd0

Deferred Rendering ON:
http://m.friendfeed-media.com/206e6a7e4a14518e27f084d30c9cec0d58873520

If I recall correctly, a PJIRA entry already exists 
for this bug - but unfortunately I can't find it. 

Can you help me to find it please? I'd like to update it.

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Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Sythos]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 18:36:50 -0500
Dale Mahalko  wrote:

> * Decode all JPEG2000's once, to all levels of mipmap scale, and write
> the raw RGB mipmaps to disk as individual files (UUID+mipscale.bmp),
> discarding the source JP2's.

high load, and next time u see same object the viewer should download
again the texture, re-decode it, match checksums, store decoded data if
checksum don't match or skip if match (job of cache is store the know
data), you don't save a bit, waste more bandwith.
It may work with non-decoded data, but if not decoded is *actual* cache
system...

> * Decode all OGGs to WAV once, and write the raw WAV to disk,
> discarding the OGGs.

nice way to store music on stream

> * Oh, and don't ever delete any assets until your dedicated 2 terabyte
> cache drive is 99.99% full.

every cached file can be touched everytime used, and only oldest file
deleted if cache close to be full

> * Let the local operating system deal with the file caching. If you
> have 4+ gig of system memory, let the OS manage it for caching
> frequently accessed world data.

if i have 4+GB i use a ramdisk as cache... XD

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Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Domino Marama]

On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 13:08 -0400, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> On 2010-09-17 12:56, Ponzu wrote:
> > But some users want to be able to override this.  I want a certain
> > location to always load fast, even if I rarely visit it.
> >
> > User story:  I want to mark certain locations as "Fast Loading" even
> > if I do not visit them very often.  This should override the automatic
> > behavior of the system.
> 
> Even if the cache had such controls, note that if anything changes at 
> the location while you're away (and the longer you have between visits, 
> the more likely that is), then it won't load from cache anyway.

A prime example for this type of use are the various vehicle racers. I'm
certain they would want to mark all the track sims as fast loading even
if they only race on a particular track once a month. I suspect it's
kinder to people who are practicing when you teleport in as well helping
own performance on first couple of laps..

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Re: [opensource-dev] Where to put & look for test viewers

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

  On 2010-09-17 13:36, Ponzu wrote:
> When will Snowstorm post a Development Viewer Snapshot - TBD
>
> 8-)

already on the main secondlife.com downloads page (though we need a 
newer one)
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

  On 2010-09-17 13:49, Brandon Husbands wrote:
> It was a serious question. I wanted to know if LL did it or a 3rd 
> party contractor. not a insult.

It doesn't matter... it's there, and we're going to have to deal with it 
(as in the recent changes to make panels detachable).

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Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Daniel Smith]

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Altair Sythos  wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 10:17:27 -0700
> Daniel Smith  wrote:
>
>
> > A passive means of ranking a cache would be:
> >
> > 1) did the user already have an LM here?
> > 2) did an object just give a user an LM to this place?
> > 3) did the user just proactively create an LM?
> >
> > These are 3 distinct cases.  #1 and #3 imply that the user has an
> > interest in coming back, and is likely to want an ongoing cache.  #2
> > implies that a store / venue etc may have given the user an LM they
> > didn't want.
>
> Ram is a lot faster than cache-on-disk, caching on disk may cause more
> lag while you force a re-check everytime you see it,
>

It's all a balance.  You dont want to use so much ram that you start
swapping to disk and thrashing with other processes.  And... you dont want a
disk cache so big that it becomes noticeably slow to do lookups.


> > Another case is:  if a user deletes an LM, it implies they may want
> > to free up the cache for that location as well.
>
> don't understand, cache should store all textures for a whole sims just
> why i've bookmarkd a LM? O_o
>

You cache what is in your draw distance, right?  The discussion here, as I
understand it, is about a level of preferential or "sticky" cache, based on
some explicit or inferred direction from the user.  A passive means of
inferring what the user wants to preferentially cache is somewhat easy:  if
they LM it, that means they may be coming back soon, so they would prefer to
have the cache of that place stick around.   (and, as Oz points out, UUID's
that are newer than the previous visit are going to get loaded from the
server)

And like I said, if you remove an LM, you most likely want to free up cache
associated with it... (this is more granular than doing things on a per-sim
level).

A lot of this can be thought of in terms of the last 15 years of web
browsers:  if you bookmark a site, chances are you would prefer the cache
for that to persist, as opposed to following a link and just quickly
skimming a place you wont come back to.

Daniel


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Re: [opensource-dev] Stability in Recent Dev Builds (and crash dumps?)

[Anya Kanevsky]

Hey all, just wanted to let you know that crashhunters looked at the crashes
in Development builds today and the top ones (including Bunny's) are being
investigated.

Cheers,

anya (grumpity)

2010/9/16 Tillie Ariantho 

> On 16.09.2010 20:22, Bunny Halberd wrote:
>
> > So, I have two questions - 1.) are crash dumps working correctly on
> > the dev builds,
>
> I crash 2 or 3 times a day too with the dev builds and only on rare
> occasions a .dmp file with >0 bytes is written.
> The crashes seem to be somewhat random, apparently more often when people
> are around or arrive.
>
> I got one crash though that produced a dump file.
>
> Log looks like this:
>
> 2010-09-02T21:46:50Z INFO: LLVOAvatar::processAvatarAppearance:
> AvatarAppearance msg received without any parameters, object:
> fd56cc9b-0dcd-4fdb-8ca7-0e186524d064
> 2010-09-02T21:46:50Z INFO: LLVOAvatar::processAvatarAppearance: That's
> okay, we already have a non-default shape for object:
> fd56cc9b-0dcd-4fdb-8ca7-0e186524d064
> 2010-09-02T21:46:52Z WARNING: LLSysWellWindow::removeItemByID: Unable to
> remove notification from the list, ID: 5e2c7343-57ce-b9e8-8699-d7cc9b1b10ad
> 2010-09-02T21:46:52Z INFO: LLFloater::closeFloater: Closing floater toast
> 2010-09-02T21:46:53Z INFO: LLAppViewer::idle: Kills on unknown objects: 3
> 2010-09-02T21:46:55Z INFO: LLAssetStorage::getAssetData: ASSET_TRACE
> requesting 276e8dce-3a46-edc5-fe2e-e62b96197131 type animatn
> 2010-09-02T21:46:55Z INFO: LLAssetStorage::getAssetData: ASSET_TRACE asset
> 276e8dce-3a46-edc5-fe2e-e62b96197131 found in VFS
> 2010-09-02T21:46:58Z INFO: display_stats: FPS: 49.90
> 2010-09-02T21:47:01Z INFO: LLAssetStorage::getAssetData: ASSET_TRACE
> requesting 1d1bbc86-4c42-9fcb-5514-0c55da61fcc4 type animatn
> 2010-09-02T21:47:01Z INFO: LLAssetStorage::getAssetData: ASSET_TRACE asset
> 1d1bbc86-4c42-9fcb-5514-0c55da61fcc4 found in VFS
> 2010-09-02T21:47:07Z INFO: display_stats: FPS: 49.10
> 2010-09-02T21:47:12Z INFO: display_stats: MEMORY: 1192 MB
> 2010-09-02T21:47:14Z INFO: windows_post_minidump_callback: generated
> minidump: ba07ec5c-aebc-433a-a507-716f8c0faa21.dmp
> 2010-09-02T21:47:14Z INFO: windows_post_minidump_callback: Entering Windows
> Exception Handler...
> 2010-09-02T21:47:14Z INFO: LLAppViewer::handleViewerCrash: Handle viewer
> crash entry.
> 2010-09-02T21:47:14Z INFO: LLAppViewer::handleViewerCrash: Last render pool
> type: 14
> 2010-09-02T21:47:14Z INFO: LLError::LLCallStacks::print:  *
> PRINT OUT LL CALL STACKS *
> 2010-09-02T21:47:14Z INFO: LLError::LLCallStacks::print:
> LLPipeline::postSort line: 2774
> 2010-09-02T21:47:14Z INFO: LLError::LLCallStacks::print:
> LLPipeline::postSort line: 2744
> 2010-09-02T21:47:14Z INFO: LLError::LLCallStacks::print:
> LLPipeline::postSort line: 2696
> 2010-09-02T21:47:14Z INFO: LLError::LLCallStacks::print:
> LLPipeline::postSort line: 2594
> 2010-09-02T21:47:14Z INFO: LLError::LLCallStacks::print:
> LLPipeline::postSort line: 2574
> 2010-09-02T21:47:14Z INFO: LLError::LLCallStacks::print:
> LLPipeline::postSort line: 2563
> 2010-09-02T21:47:14Z INFO: LLError::LLCallStacks::print:  ***
> END OF LL CALL STACKS ***
>
> If someone wants the dump file (Snowstorm build #208921 for that crash)...
>
> I think it didnt send out the crash data. The crashes with 0 byte dumps
> dont do send anything ever.
>
> Tillie
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Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Mike Dickson]

  On 09/17/2010 01:08 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
>On 2010-09-17 12:56, Ponzu wrote:
>> But some users want to be able to override this.  I want a certain
>> location to always load fast, even if I rarely visit it.
>>
>> User story:  I want to mark certain locations as "Fast Loading" even
>> if I do not visit them very often.  This should override the automatic
>> behavior of the system.
Right, I could just as easily have written a user story as: "I want all 
locations to load fast".  IMO a single well implemented cache module 
should optimize for the access by a user over time against changing 
data.  That's the function of a cache in the first place.  It's possible 
that the seperate caches in the client are limiting the usefulness of a 
cache at all and a single well implemented cache would do the trick.

Mike
>> Even if the cache had such controls, note that if anything changes at
>> the location while you're away (and the longer you have between visits,
>> the more likely that is), then it won't load from cache anyway.
>>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Brandon Husbands]

I am actually about finished with my mod for v2.

It takes the sidebar.cpp file and only that file leaves all public method
calls in.
But its rewritten to be a floater manager where if you want to call say
profile it launches it as a floater.

Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the buttons
back for them and menu choices.

And there was much rejoicing.. Ill be submitting a patch soon. If its not
wanted thats fine but it allows me to use viewer 2.
and is easy to merge as the file is really the only file changed.


On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) <
o...@lindenlab.com> wrote:

>  On 2010-09-17 13:49, Brandon Husbands wrote:
> > It was a serious question. I wanted to know if LL did it or a 3rd
> > party contractor. not a insult.
>
> It doesn't matter... it's there, and we're going to have to deal with it
> (as in the recent changes to make panels detachable).
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Vex Streeter]

I think this is actually a crucial first step to cache improvement.  The 
performance of this system would be an extremely useful baseline. For 
instance I'd love to be able to toggle between saving jp2 and raw w and 
w/out mipmap.  There can be performance benefits to storing content 
compressed on disk, though it isn't clear to me that any of the SL 
assets would win here.

I don't think it needs to be a real viewer at that level - It is pretty 
trivial to obfuscate assets at a similar level of protection as that 
currently used at a CPU cost that'll get lost in the noise (example: XOR 
asset UUID and post-header content with install-determined hash).  Once 
the infrastructure is in place, a trivial obfuscater would make it TPV 
compliant, I'd think.

On 09/16/2010 07:36 PM, Dale Mahalko wrote:
> I just don't have the motivation for it myself, but I would really
> like it if a 3rd party developer would gut out LL's texture cache and
> eliminate the VFS, and replace them with a simple disk cache that
> writes all assets in raw format, with files named by UUID on disk.
>
> * Decode all JPEG2000's once, to all levels of mipmap scale, and write
> the raw RGB mipmaps to disk as individual files (UUID+mipscale.bmp),
> discarding the source JP2's.
>
> * Decode all OGGs to WAV once, and write the raw WAV to disk,
> discarding the OGGs.
>
> * Oh, and don't ever delete any assets until your dedicated 2 terabyte
> cache drive is 99.99% full.
>
> * Let the local operating system deal with the file caching. If you
> have 4+ gig of system memory, let the OS manage it for caching
> frequently accessed world data.
>
> This cache would much simpler than the layered mess of caches
> currently used, and it would give a speed boost over the constant JP2
> to RGB mipmap decoding and discarding that is in place now. Decode
> once and don't ever do it again.
>
> ,
>
> But I know it is just a dream. LL will never let it happen since it
> will lay bare the data contents of every prim, texture, and object in
> the virtual world, rather than obfuscating asset storage within the
> current VFS / JP2 method.
>
> This viewer would get blacklisted before it ever got out the door.
>
> - Dale Mahalko / Scalar Tardis
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[opensource-dev] Freeze on new inventory window.

[Erin Mallory]

I've noticed the last several development viewers I have tried have started 
freezing my system between 5-10 seconds for each time I attempt to open a new 
inventory window, and that the freezes last longer for each additional 
inventory window I open.  I didn't have this in earlier versions of the viewer. 
 Any idea what's causing it?  Is this expected?  I'm currently on Second Life 
2.1.2 (209950).
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Marine Kelley]

Brandon I am sooo waiting for your patch impatiently !


On 17 September 2010 21:38, Brandon Husbands  wrote:

> I am actually about finished with my mod for v2.
>
> It takes the sidebar.cpp file and only that file leaves all public method
> calls in.
> But its rewritten to be a floater manager where if you want to call say
> profile it launches it as a floater.
>
> Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the buttons
> back for them and menu choices.
>
> And there was much rejoicing.. Ill be submitting a patch soon. If its not
> wanted thats fine but it allows me to use viewer 2.
> and is easy to merge as the file is really the only file changed.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) <
> o...@lindenlab.com> wrote:
>
>>  On 2010-09-17 13:49, Brandon Husbands wrote:
>> > It was a serious question. I wanted to know if LL did it or a 3rd
>> > party contractor. not a insult.
>>
>> It doesn't matter... it's there, and we're going to have to deal with it
>> (as in the recent changes to make panels detachable).
>>
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>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

  On 2010-09-17 15:38, Brandon Husbands wrote:
> I am actually about finished with my mod for v2.
>
> It takes the sidebar.cpp file and only that file leaves all public 
> method calls in.
> But its rewritten to be a floater manager where if you want to call 
> say profile it launches it as a floater.
>
> Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the 
> buttons back for them and menu choices.

 From an end user point of view, how does that differ from the current 
Development viewer functionality if the user has torn all the panels off 
as separate windows?

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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Daniel Smith]

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) <
o...@lindenlab.com> wrote:

>  On 2010-09-17 15:38, Brandon Husbands wrote:
> > I am actually about finished with my mod for v2.
> >
> > It takes the sidebar.cpp file and only that file leaves all public
> > method calls in.
> > But its rewritten to be a floater manager where if you want to call
> > say profile it launches it as a floater.
> >
> > Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the
> > buttons back for them and menu choices.
>
>  From an end user point of view, how does that differ from the current
> Development viewer functionality if the user has torn all the panels off
> as separate windows?
>
>
> The key word is: "launches"  -- i.e. fewer steps to get to the desired
display.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Zi Ree]

Am Freitag 17 September 2010 22:51:38 schrieb Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence):

> > Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the
> > buttons back for them and menu choices.
> 
>  From an end user point of view, how does that differ from the current
> Development viewer functionality if the user has torn all the panels off
> as separate windows?

I really really hope the difference is the ability to open as many profile and 
property floaters as we want, and not being limited to a single instance. Does 
the current Development viewer do that?

Zi
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Marine Kelley]

On 17 September 2010 23:02, Zi Ree  wrote:

> Am Freitag 17 September 2010 22:51:38 schrieb Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence):
>
> > > Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the
> > > buttons back for them and menu choices.
> >
> >  From an end user point of view, how does that differ from the current
> > Development viewer functionality if the user has torn all the panels off
> > as separate windows?
>
> I really really hope the difference is the ability to open as many profile
> and
> property floaters as we want, and not being limited to a single instance.
> Does
> the current Development viewer do that?
>
> Yes the very point of being able to tear off some tabs is to be able to
actually copy them, and to switch to another tab in order to do some
drag-and-drop like in 1.x. Tearing one tab just to tear it and not have it
in the sidebar is rather pointless, if you ask me.
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[opensource-dev] Side topic related to cache (was Re: User Story: Improved Cache

[Ponzu]

I have also thought a bit about the situation where two or more users
are on the same subnet.  Think of a dozens of people in the same LAN
in a meeting, for example.

Current system has each user building an almost identical cache locally.

Instead, what if all the users went through a proxy, and the proxy did
the caching?  Wouldn't that be a big win?
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Re: [opensource-dev] Side topic related to cache (was Re: User Story: Improved Cache

[Sythos]

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 17:14:01 -0400
Ponzu  wrote:

> I have also thought a bit about the situation where two or more users
> are on the same subnet.  Think of a dozens of people in the same LAN
> in a meeting, for example.
> 
> Current system has each user building an almost identical cache
> locally.
> 
> Instead, what if all the users went through a proxy, and the proxy did
> the caching?  Wouldn't that be a big win?

by the way viewer support proxy you can use a local caching proxy
(oops, squid, sort off) and already extend *ALL* you want (HTTP get
textures cached in a standard HTTP cached server)
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Trilo Byte]

Now if only we could resize the width of the sidebar, we'd be getting 
somewhere.  ;-) Seems like extra clicks and screen clutter to be able to see a 
little bit wider for inventory windows and group notices.  Pop open sidebar, 
detach or bounce to right side, and THEN finally be able to resize.  But then 
juggle the other windows if you need to actually interact with anything 
in-world.

I do like where it's headed though, great progress is being made.  Cheers to 
those working on it

Trilo

On Sep 17, 2010, at 7:13 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:

>  On 2010-09-17 13:49, Brandon Husbands wrote:
>> It was a serious question. I wanted to know if LL did it or a 3rd 
>> party contractor. not a insult.
> 
> It doesn't matter... it's there, and we're going to have to deal with it 
> (as in the recent changes to make panels detachable).
> 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Where to put & look for test viewers

[Trilo Byte]

I agree, a newer one's needed (Phillip pledged to residents there would be 
updates every 2 weeks, that doesn't seem to be happening). However, until 
anti-aliasing gets fixed 2.1.2 isn't ready for prime time.

Trilo

On Sep 17, 2010, at 7:11 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:

>  On 2010-09-17 13:36, Ponzu wrote:
>> When will Snowstorm post a Development Viewer Snapshot - TBD
>> 
>> 8-)
> 
> already on the main secondlife.com downloads page (though we need a 
> newer one)
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Brandon Husbands]

Your able to open as many of each as you want
And resize And actually close so it does not sit there minimised...
Thats how it works with my patch...


On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Trilo Byte  wrote:

> Now if only we could resize the width of the sidebar, we'd be getting
> somewhere.  ;-) Seems like extra clicks and screen clutter to be able to see
> a little bit wider for inventory windows and group notices.  Pop open
> sidebar, detach or bounce to right side, and THEN finally be able to resize.
>  But then juggle the other windows if you need to actually interact with
> anything in-world.
>
> I do like where it's headed though, great progress is being made.  Cheers
> to those working on it
>
> Trilo
>
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 7:13 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
>
> >  On 2010-09-17 13:49, Brandon Husbands wrote:
> >> It was a serious question. I wanted to know if LL did it or a 3rd
> >> party contractor. not a insult.
> >
> > It doesn't matter... it's there, and we're going to have to deal with it
> > (as in the recent changes to make panels detachable).
> >
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?

[Brandon Husbands]

The current functionality you cant really close resizing is a pain and the
floater on minimize has a header that stays in place.

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) <
o...@lindenlab.com> wrote:

>  On 2010-09-17 15:38, Brandon Husbands wrote:
>
>> I am actually about finished with my mod for v2.
>>
>> It takes the sidebar.cpp file and only that file leaves all public method
>> calls in.
>> But its rewritten to be a floater manager where if you want to call say
>> profile it launches it as a floater.
>>
>> Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the buttons
>> back for them and menu choices.
>>
>
> From an end user point of view, how does that differ from the current
> Development viewer functionality if the user has torn all the panels off as
> separate windows?
>
>


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Re: [opensource-dev] Freeze on new inventory window.

[Anya Kanevsky]

Erin, is there a jira?
thanks!

anya

2010/9/17 Erin Mallory 

>  I've noticed the last several development viewers I have tried have
> started freezing my system between 5-10 seconds for each time I attempt to
> open a new inventory window, and that the freezes last longer for each
> additional inventory window I open.  I didn't have this in earlier versions
> of the viewer.  Any idea what's causing it?  Is this expected?  I'm
> currently on Second Life 2.1.2 (209950).
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] opensource-dev Digest, Vol 8, Issue 75

[SuezanneC Baskerville]

I hope that some TPV developers provide us with alternatives to kludgily
modified, poorly designed panels for groups, profiles, inventory, etc.


On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 7:02 PM, <
opensource-dev-requ...@lists.secondlife.com> wrote:

> Send opensource-dev mailing list submissions to
>opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensource-dev
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>opensource-dev-requ...@lists.secondlife.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>opensource-dev-ow...@lists.secondlife.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of opensource-dev digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Zi Ree)
>   2. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Marine Kelley)
>   3. Side topic related to cache (was Re: User Story: Improved
>  Cache (Ponzu)
>   4. Re: Side topic related to cache (was Re: User Story: Improved
>  Cache (Altair Sythos Memo)
>   5. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Trilo Byte)
>   6. Re: Where to put & look for test viewers (Trilo Byte)
>   7. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Brandon Husbands)
>   8. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Brandon Husbands)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 23:02:05 +0200
> From: Zi Ree 
> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?
> To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> Message-ID: <201009172302.05193.tinacl...@gmx.de>
> Content-Type: Text/Plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Am Freitag 17 September 2010 22:51:38 schrieb Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence):
>
> > > Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the
> > > buttons back for them and menu choices.
> >
> >  From an end user point of view, how does that differ from the current
> > Development viewer functionality if the user has torn all the panels off
> > as separate windows?
>
> I really really hope the difference is the ability to open as many profile
> and
> property floaters as we want, and not being limited to a single instance.
> Does
> the current Development viewer do that?
>
> Zi
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 23:12:05 +0200
> From: Marine Kelley 
> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?
> To: Zi Ree 
> Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On 17 September 2010 23:02, Zi Ree  wrote:
>
> > Am Freitag 17 September 2010 22:51:38 schrieb Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence):
> >
> > > > Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the
> > > > buttons back for them and menu choices.
> > >
> > >  From an end user point of view, how does that differ from the current
> > > Development viewer functionality if the user has torn all the panels
> off
> > > as separate windows?
> >
> > I really really hope the difference is the ability to open as many
> profile
> > and
> > property floaters as we want, and not being limited to a single instance.
> > Does
> > the current Development viewer do that?
> >
> > Yes the very point of being able to tear off some tabs is to be able to
> actually copy them, and to switch to another tab in order to do some
> drag-and-drop like in 1.x. Tearing one tab just to tear it and not have it
> in the sidebar is rather pointless, if you ask me.
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20100917/48d8a711/attachment-0001.htm
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 17:14:01 -0400
> From: Ponzu 
> Subject: [opensource-dev] Side topic related to cache (was Re: User
>Story: Improved Cache
> To: Vex Streeter 
> Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I have also thought a bit about the situation where two or more users
> are on the same subnet.  Think of a dozens of people in the same LAN
> in a meeting, for example.
>
> Current system has each user building an almost identical cache locally.
>
> Instead, what if all the users went through a proxy, and the proxy did
> the caching?  Wouldn't that be a big win?
>
>
> ---

Re: [opensource-dev] opensource-dev Digest, Vol 8, Issue 75

[Brandon Husbands]

Unfortunately I no longer work on a TPV team so Ill just have to submit
patches and hope they get used.
Dim.

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:03 PM, SuezanneC Baskerville
wrote:

> I hope that some TPV developers provide us with alternatives to kludgily
> modified, poorly designed panels for groups, profiles, inventory, etc.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 7:02 PM, <
> opensource-dev-requ...@lists.secondlife.com> wrote:
>
>> Send opensource-dev mailing list submissions to
>>opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>
>> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensource-dev
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>opensource-dev-requ...@lists.secondlife.com
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>opensource-dev-ow...@lists.secondlife.com
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of opensource-dev digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Zi Ree)
>>   2. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Marine Kelley)
>>   3. Side topic related to cache (was Re: User Story: Improved
>>  Cache (Ponzu)
>>   4. Re: Side topic related to cache (was Re: User Story: Improved
>>  Cache (Altair Sythos Memo)
>>   5. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Trilo Byte)
>>   6. Re: Where to put & look for test viewers (Trilo Byte)
>>   7. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Brandon Husbands)
>>   8. Re: Snowstorm - Product Engine? (Brandon Husbands)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 23:02:05 +0200
>> From: Zi Ree 
>> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?
>> To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>> Message-ID: <201009172302.05193.tinacl...@gmx.de>
>> Content-Type: Text/Plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Am Freitag 17 September 2010 22:51:38 schrieb Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence):
>>
>> > > Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the
>> > > buttons back for them and menu choices.
>> >
>> >  From an end user point of view, how does that differ from the current
>> > Development viewer functionality if the user has torn all the panels off
>> > as separate windows?
>>
>> I really really hope the difference is the ability to open as many profile
>> and
>> property floaters as we want, and not being limited to a single instance.
>> Does
>> the current Development viewer do that?
>>
>> Zi
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 23:12:05 +0200
>> From: Marine Kelley 
>> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?
>> To: Zi Ree 
>> Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> On 17 September 2010 23:02, Zi Ree  wrote:
>>
>> > Am Freitag 17 September 2010 22:51:38 schrieb Oz Linden (Scott
>> Lawrence):
>> >
>> > > > Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the
>> > > > buttons back for them and menu choices.
>> > >
>> > >  From an end user point of view, how does that differ from the current
>> > > Development viewer functionality if the user has torn all the panels
>> off
>> > > as separate windows?
>> >
>> > I really really hope the difference is the ability to open as many
>> profile
>> > and
>> > property floaters as we want, and not being limited to a single
>> instance.
>> > Does
>> > the current Development viewer do that?
>> >
>> > Yes the very point of being able to tear off some tabs is to be able to
>> actually copy them, and to switch to another tab in order to do some
>> drag-and-drop like in 1.x. Tearing one tab just to tear it and not have it
>> in the sidebar is rather pointless, if you ask me.
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> http://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/attachments/20100917/48d8a711/attachment-0001.htm
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 17:14:01 -0400
>> From: Ponzu 
>> Subject: [opensource-dev] Side topic related

Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache

[Glen Canaday]

> > * Let the local operating system deal with the file caching. If you
> > have 4+ gig of system memory, let the OS manage it for caching
> > frequently accessed world data.
> 
> if i have 4+GB i use a ramdisk as cache... XD
> 

Wow. I am getting VERY old and senile. WHY oh why I didn't think of
this, I don't know - I used to use them all the time for other things
that needed fast file access.

--GC


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[opensource-dev] Option to send notices to email even when online

[Marc Adored]

I wasn't sure if this is the right place to post this but on the
https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo page it says
sldev has been moved here so i suppose this is the only place to post
this.

I posted a jira for this option because I couldn't find an existing
jira and just wanted to get the word out about it and see others
opinions on it. I know there are other people who at one point and
time needed a past notice to review past events to make better
decisions on current events and didn't have in in their email because
they where online when the notice was sent out. Specially in large
groups with lots of RP action and disciplinary notices.

The jira is at:
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6330
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