Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

[Dahlia Trimble]

One thing I liked about the pie menu is the area where the mouse click needs
to take place increases in width as you move away from the center, making it
easy to make the desired pick. I often find when navigating nested
rectangular menus that it's difficult to keep the mouse hovered in the
desired area and it tends to open the wrong one unless the cursor is very
precisely placed. This is especially troublesome when navigating
thru several menu levels.


On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Kadah  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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>
>
> On 8/18/2010 12:04 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> > If I understood him correctly, what Q seemed to think was the right
> > behavior is:
> >
> > * The first mouse-down opens the pie centered on the mouse location,
> >   so no choice is under the mouse
> > * If the choice is a submenu, each new menu is also centered on the
> >   mouse
> >
> > that way, you are never making a choice within the submenu if you
> > accidentally double click, because the center is never a choice.  this
> > does mean that the nested menus 'creep', but that has the effect that
> > each nested choice is a 'gesture-like' unique series of clicks.
>
> I think he thinks that the proper behavior should have been that the
> cursor recenters on the new sub pie menu.
>
> I liked how for something like inspect was down, click, right, and
> delete was down, up-right. As long as the item in the submenu in that
> spot was either blank or nonharmfull, which it mostly was, I'd have
> nearly no problems. Unlike with the context menus used now, I'm always
> hunting for the option and frequently hit the wrong one.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Please - enough about the CA

[Gareth Nelson]

None of those projects have an agreement that allows proprietary versions

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:12 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)
 wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Henri Beauchamp  wrote:
>
> SL is the ONLY so-called (but actually still not, obviously: a Canada-Dry
> LGPL, perhaps ?) LGPL Open Source project requiring a License agreement
> from its contributors !!!  This makes strictly no sense and is a clear
> impairement.
>
> Axiom, OpenOffice, NetBeans, Joomla!, Alfresco, ...
>
>
> and all projects under the Apache Foundation.
>
> http://www.apache.org/licenses/#clas
>
> and the Perl Foundation
>
> http://www.perlfoundation.org/contributor_license_agreement
>
> and the Python Foundation
>
> http://www.python.org/psf/contrib/contrib-form-python/
>
> none of which are in any way commercial, and all of whom embody the ideals
> to which other open source projects aspire.
>
> I know that some of you won't sign an agreement, and that you have reasons
> you think are good.  I accept that whether I agree with those reasons or
> not, while deeply regreting not being able to share in your work.
>
> If any of you are unsure what the implications of the agreement are, I am
> happy to provide what assistance I can if you contact me _off_ of the list
> (but I am not a lawyer, and crucially I am not _your_ lawyer).
>
> There may come a time when Linden Lab will revisit the requirement for or
> the terms of the CA.  If I'm still here, I'll let the community know when
> that is happening.
>
> For the time being, changing the CA is not on the table - we've got other
> things to spend our time and energy on at the moment - like making Second
> Life Fast, Easy, and Fun.
>
> If you feel the need to continue to rail against the CA, please take it
> somewhere else and leave this list to people who are trying to do the things
> that are possible now.
>
>
>
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-- 
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everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” -
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Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Argent Stonecutter]

On 2010-08-18, at 13:19, Michael Schlenker wrote:
>> Can you elaborate on what kind of RP would require you to be able to set 
>> your display name to "Argent Stonecutter"

> Sure. Anywhere you wanna have uniform appearance, like having a bunch of 
> 'Agent Smith' AVs in black suits to give the 
> impression of identical twins or clones.

That wouldn't be "having the same display name as a user name".

That would be "having the same display name as another display name". I'm not 
talking about that. Is anyone talking about that?

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Re: [opensource-dev] To Pie or To List

[Argent Stonecutter]

On 2010-08-18, at 19:23, Ricky wrote:
> Furthermore, if I don't have the
> privileges to return an item the return option should be either
> removed or grayed out.

This is actually a problem in 1.x as well.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Please - enough about the CA

[Argent Stonecutter]

On 2010-08-19, at 04:09, Gareth Nelson wrote:
> None of those projects have an agreement that allows proprietary versions

I think Qt has LGPL and proprietary licensing now.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Update Linux Build Documentation, pl ease?

[Opensource Obscure]

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:36:32 -0400, Tapple Gao  wrote:

> Also, the build instructions have a lot of caveats for
> standalone builders, which, as someone who has never even been
> able to complete a non-standalone build, I am rather confused
> by.
> 
> So, I'd like it if someone could update the linux build
> documentation, and make it really easy for first-time
> (non-standalone) builders to follow:
[..]
> - seperate out standalone and non-standalone into seperate
>   documents

I have been almost ignoring the Linux-compiling docs for a while
but I'd tend to agree with this specific request.

Opensource Obscure
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[opensource-dev] Workaround for build issues on Gentoo Linux; Using CMake directly instead of develop.py (was: Update Linux Build Documentation, please?)

[Boroondas Gupte]

 Hi Tapple

Welcome to the opensource-dev and to Snowglobe and snowstorm
development/testing!

On 08/19/2010 04:36 AM, Tapple Gao wrote:
> I'm on Gentoo Linux, and the build instructions for Linux [1] have
> never worked for me (./develop.py cmake; ./develop.py build).
For default (i.e. non-standalone) building on Gentoo, you might require
the workaround at User:Michelle2 Zenovka/cmake#Gentoo
.
(Yes, it were the imprudence folks who documented it. Big thanks to them!)

> I've talked with some people on IRC, and I'm now under the
> impression that develop.py is rather obsolete, which may be part
> of my problem.
As far as I know, develop.py isn't required anymore on Linux (I'm not
sure about other platforms), but it is still the default way of
building, so I wouldn't call it obsolete just yet. (IMHO we should work
towards making it obsolete, though.)



> However, that doesn't really help me, as I have
> no idea how to use cmake.
I prefer to use CMake directly. If you want to try that, too, you can
find some comprehensive (but maybe partially outdated) documentation at
User:Michelle2 Zenovka/cmake
 and a
quick step-by-step reference at Compiling and Patching Snowglobe (Linux)
.

> Also, the build instructions have a lot of caveats for
> standalone builders, which, as someone who has never even been
> able to complete a non-standalone build, I am rather confused
> by.
>
> So, I'd like it if someone could update the linux build
> documentation, and make it really easy for first-time
> (non-standalone) builders to follow:
>
> - Show how to use cmake rather than develop.py
Question to everyone: Are there cases (on Linux) where develop.py is
still required? Otherwise I think we can deprecate it (on Linux) easily,
by replacing it in the build documentation with the appropriate CMake
commands.

What about other platforms? Is it always needed, there?

> - seperate out standalone and non-standalone into seperate
>   documents
I think when Aleric and others recently revised Compiling the viewer
(Linux)
,
there was a conscious decision to keep both, standalone and
non-standalone in a single wiki article, but I'm not sure I remember
that correctly. The main problem when separating them will be to keep
them in sync when common requirements or common steps change. This could
be solved by common transclusions, but those seem to confuse unaware
editors.

For the moment, the sections that are only relevant for standalone
should be clearly marked as such in the section title, so it shouldn't
be too difficult to skip over them when they do not apply to you.

> As an aside, the Imprudence viewer team has really overhauled
> the build process, and as a result, Imprudence is the only
> viewer that is actually able to find all my libraries and
> complete a build from an svn checkout. I would strongly suggest
> you integrate their build changes into the main viewer.
Are these changes documented somewhere? Which commits are part of this
overhaul? If it isn't too difficult, I'd be willing to apply and test
them on my hg repo
. (I can only test
standalone myself, though, due to 64bit OS.) Pulling them into
lindenlab/viewer-development
 might not be
possible due to CA requirements, though.

> If there is really going to be more focus on open source, it is
> really important to make sure new people like me are able to
> compile the viewer from source.
ACK

cheers
Boroondas
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Re: [opensource-dev] Pie menu ideas (was: Re: Open Viewer Development Announcement)

[Opensource Obscure]

I got used to the pie menu and got comfortable with it, 
but I still think the pie menu is a bit weird for new 
unexperienced users. The current menu resembles the menu 
you may find across many applications with large userbases.

Overall, I think the current menu is a better solution.

A rework of the current menu may improve it further but this 
should have low priority in relation to other UI issues.

As always, providing users with the ability to choose a different
system (that is, pie menu) may be ideal - but again, this shouldn't
have an high priority.

Opensource Obscure
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Baloo Uriza]

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:04:19 -0700, Kelly Linden wrote:

> 'Resident' is just the final last name, and is treated specially on new 
> viewers to be hidden from view when displayed.

So new users won't have the choice of picking a last name anymore?  Isn't 
that going to severely limit the number of names possible now?

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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Jesse Barnett]

baloo198731.residentPlenty of names available.

This has absolutely nothing to do with "We listened to our users" as this is
not what we asked for. Pyske figured it out in the SLU thread. This is a
move to the openID format and this is confirmed when you look at the Display
Name wiki page:

"This feature is an important step on our social media strategy that will
ultimately allow you to connect your inworld identity to other social
networks, on an opt-in basis. Again, Display Names and eventually, the
connection to social networks, is all about choice."

Jesse Barnett

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Baloo Uriza  wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:04:19 -0700, Kelly Linden wrote:
>
> > 'Resident' is just the final last name, and is treated specially on new
> > viewers to be hidden from view when displayed.
>
> So new users won't have the choice of picking a last name anymore?  Isn't
> that going to severely limit the number of names possible now?
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Gareth Nelson]

Is RegAPI still going to be available with last names or is that being
updated too?

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Baloo Uriza  wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:04:19 -0700, Kelly Linden wrote:
>
>> 'Resident' is just the final last name, and is treated specially on new
>> viewers to be hidden from view when displayed.
>
> So new users won't have the choice of picking a last name anymore?  Isn't
> that going to severely limit the number of names possible now?
>
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-- 
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everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” -
Printcrime by Cory Doctrow

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
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Re: [opensource-dev] vehicles got some problem ?

[Baloo Uriza]

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:39:36 +0900, Rustam Rakhimov wrote:

> Hi VW developers [developers are future]
> 
> 
> I want to ask you question about vehicles
> 
> As I know vehicles got some problem in OpenSim isn't it ?
> 
> so is there any news about Vehicles in Opensim. I want it to run some
> car script on OpenSim

You're probably better off asking this question over on the the mailing 
list or forums that are OpenSimulator related.  I believe Nebadon Izumi 
on OSgrid might have some helpful input on the subject over on the OSgrid 
forums.



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Re: [opensource-dev] Please - enough about the CA

[Laurent Bechir]

Argent Stonecutter a écrit :

On 2010-08-19, at 04:09, Gareth Nelson wrote:
   

>  None of those projects have an agreement that allows proprietary versions
 


I think Qt has LGPL and proprietary licensing now.
   


You're right :

http://qt.nokia.com/downloads
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[opensource-dev] SSH authentication (was: Snowstorm Daily Scrum Summary - 08/18/2010)

[Boroondas Gupte]

 [Oz, sorry for the duplicate. I've sent this from a wrong address
originally, so the list rejected it.]

Hi Oz

On 08/19/2010 04:57 AM, Esbee Linden (Sarah Hutchinson) wrote:
> Date: Wed Aug 18
> Also available
> here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Snowstorm_Daily_Scrum_Archive
>
> [...]
> *
> 
>
> *
> *=== Oz ===*
> *
> [...]
> *
> IMPEDIMENTS
>
> * *
>   
>   *
>   (minor) Can't get ssh authentication to
>   hg.secondlife.com/bitbucket.org
>    working
>   *
>   
>   *
>
> *
> 
> *
What exactly isn't working there? Have you followed the steps at
http://bitbucket.org/help/UsingSSH ? I think it works fine for me (and
others), so let us know if we can help in any way.

cheers
Boroondas

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[opensource-dev] Windows Build of Snowstorm (Viewer 2.1.1)

[Zak Escher]

I have tried every build of Viewer 2.1.1 since Sunday (8/19/2010) and all
have crashed on launch. Is there a proper place to report these issues?
-- 
-
Zak Escher
email: zak.esc...@gmail.com
Join me in Second Life
http://secondlife.com/ss/?u=f76730f9dee0d54e3cc51e29da87373a
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Re: [opensource-dev] Windows Build of Snowstorm (Viewer 2.1.1) (LLKDU)

[Aimee Linden]

That's because of the LLKDU issue that Merov is currently working to fix. You 
can work around if for now by replacing the llkdu.dll that comes with the 
development viewer with one from the release viewer.

Aimee.

On 19 Aug 2010, at 14:23, Zak Escher wrote:

> I have tried every build of Viewer 2.1.1 since Sunday (8/19/2010) and all 
> have crashed on launch. Is there a proper place to report these issues?
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Re: [opensource-dev] Windows Build of Snowstorm (Viewer 2.1.1)

[Nicky Perian]

I had a successful windows, C++ Express 2005, build and the patches are 
included 
here. https://nic...@bitbucket.org/NickyP/viewer-development




From: Zak Escher 
To: opensource-dev Mailing List 
Sent: Thu, August 19, 2010 8:23:58 AM
Subject: [opensource-dev] Windows Build of Snowstorm (Viewer 2.1.1)

I have tried every build of Viewer 2.1.1 since Sunday (8/19/2010) and all have 
crashed on launch. Is there a proper place to report these issues?
-- 
-
Zak Escher
email: zak.esc...@gmail.com
Join me in Second Life
http://secondlife.com/ss/?u=f76730f9dee0d54e3cc51e29da87373a



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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Erik Anderson]

Lol, another peanut thrown from the back rows, but doesn't "Compatibility
with openID" that mean that we may start seeing
"christa...@facebook.comresident" in a few years?

(Note: I am not saying that this has been stated or is acceptable to anyone
any visible timeframe and am not trying to start another flamewar on
something no one said is going to happen)

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:18 AM, Jesse Barnett  wrote:

> baloo198731.residentPlenty of names available.
>
> This has absolutely nothing to do with "We listened to our users" as this
> is not what we asked for. Pyske figured it out in the SLU thread. This is a
> move to the openID format and this is confirmed when you look at the Display
> Name wiki page:
>
> "This feature is an important step on our social media strategy that will
> ultimately allow you to connect your inworld identity to other social
> networks, on an opt-in basis. Again, Display Names and eventually, the
> connection to social networks, is all about choice."
>
> Jesse Barnett
>
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Baloo Uriza  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:04:19 -0700, Kelly Linden wrote:
>>
>> > 'Resident' is just the final last name, and is treated specially on new
>> > viewers to be hidden from view when displayed.
>>
>> So new users won't have the choice of picking a last name anymore?  Isn't
>> that going to severely limit the number of names possible now?
>>
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Kelly Linden]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:18 AM, Jesse Barnett  wrote:

> baloo198731.residentPlenty of names available.
>

I just wanted to point out that this theoretical new user's username would
be baloo198731, it would not be baloo198731.resident. The 'Resident' isn't
really a part of a new user's identity. It is only shown to viewers that do
not support display names and legacy LSL script calls - in other words that
last name is only there when required for backwards compatibility.
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[opensource-dev] Version numbering

[Trilo Byte]

Now that 2.1.1 has been released, shouldn't nightly builds be labeled 2.1.2?

TriloByte Zanzibar
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Ann Otoole]

Do I understand you correctly that new accounts can make their name anything 
including existing account names? 





From: Kelly Linden 
To: Jesse Barnett 
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com; Baloo Uriza 
Sent: Thu, August 19, 2010 11:27:21 AM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?


On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:18 AM, Jesse Barnett  wrote:

baloo198731.residentPlenty of names available.
>

I just wanted to point out that this theoretical new user's username would be 
baloo198731, it would not be baloo198731.resident. The 'Resident' isn't really 
a 
part of a new user's identity. It is only shown to viewers that do not support 
display names and legacy LSL script calls - in other words that last name is 
only there when required for backwards compatibility.



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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Aidan Thornton]

On 8/19/10, Kelly Linden  wrote:
> I just wanted to point out that this theoretical new user's username would
> be baloo198731, it would not be baloo198731.resident. The 'Resident' isn't
> really a part of a new user's identity. It is only shown to viewers that do
> not support display names and legacy LSL script calls - in other words that
> last name is only there when required for backwards compatibility.
>

Which has the interesting side-effect that you can't trivially convert
from a username to a legacy full name since there are two different
possible conversions and no way of telling which is correct without
accessing the login database, right?
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Kelly Linden]

No. Account names must be unique. No new user can create ann.otoole OR
annotoole as a username, that name is taken by you.

 - Kelly

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Ann Otoole  wrote:

> Do I understand you correctly that new accounts can make their name
> anything including existing account names?
>
> --
> *From:* Kelly Linden 
> *To:* Jesse Barnett 
> *Cc:* opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com; Baloo Uriza <
> ba...@ursamundi.org>
> *Sent:* Thu, August 19, 2010 11:27:21 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?
>
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:18 AM, Jesse Barnett  wrote:
>
>> baloo198731.residentPlenty of names available.
>>
>
> I just wanted to point out that this theoretical new user's username would
> be baloo198731, it would not be baloo198731.resident. The 'Resident' isn't
> really a part of a new user's identity. It is only shown to viewers that do
> not support display names and legacy LSL script calls - in other words that
> last name is only there when required for backwards compatibility.
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Kelly Linden]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:43 AM, Aidan Thornton  wrote:

> On 8/19/10, Kelly Linden  wrote:
> > I just wanted to point out that this theoretical new user's username
> would
> > be baloo198731, it would not be baloo198731.resident. The 'Resident'
> isn't
> > really a part of a new user's identity. It is only shown to viewers that
> do
> > not support display names and legacy LSL script calls - in other words
> that
> > last name is only there when required for backwards compatibility.
> >
>
> Which has the interesting side-effect that you can't trivially convert
> from a username to a legacy full name since there are two different
> possible conversions and no way of telling which is correct without
> accessing the login database, right?
>
>
There is no such thing as a legacy full name for non-legacy accounts.  We
tack on a 'Resident' last name when required for compatibility with viewers
that do not understand display names and legacy LSL calls, but it is not a
part of their name. But in essence you are correct. You can go from a 'full
name' to a 'username' but not as easily the other way - though parsing for a
'.' is likely to get you pretty good results. If you have the UUID (which
you should in both viewer code and LSL) you can get whichever name you want
- username, full name or display name.

 - Kelly
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Daniel Smith]

I'll ask the Lindens a direct question:

What will you do to prevent others from using my username as their
displayname?

I dont care what people do in group tags - that is different.

I dont want to see my name (in any form, uppercase, lowercase, with or
without
dots or spaces, etc.) used as a displayname by anyone.

And it's not just a display issue.  What happens with chat and im logs?  Are
they going to only show the displayname?

Daniel
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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

[Henri Beauchamp]

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:04:21 -0400, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:

>   On 2010-08-18 14:14, Aidan Thornton wrote:
> > On 8/18/10, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)  wrote:
> >> While there were some good things about the v1 implementation of pie
> >> menus, they also had some flaws - such as not opening a submenu centered
> >> on the mouse click.
> > I actually puzzled over this a bit when I first realised that Second
> > Life's pie menus worked this way. Originally, the pie menus worked
> > well when you didn't click too close to the edge of the screen but
> > didn't actually open under the mouse cursor if you did. Since the
> > "More..." item is sensibly always the southmost one, opening new
> > submenus centered on the mouse would cause the pie menu to drift down
> > the screen until it hit the bottom and caused problems.
> >
> > Also, opening the submenu at the same location has the nice
> > side-effect that the mouse remains over the "More..." option for the
> > pie menus that are nested 3 or more levels deep.
> >
> > What I have been contemplating is how to make it possible to open the
> > next layer of a pie menu without moving the mouse at all. Sadly, it'd
> > probably break too much from normal UI conventions to be worth doing.
> 
> If I understood him correctly, what Q seemed to think was the right 
> behavior is:
> 
> * The first mouse-down opens the pie centered on the mouse location,
>   so no choice is under the mouse
> * If the choice is a submenu, each new menu is also centered on the
>   mouse
> 
> that way, you are never making a choice within the submenu if you 
> accidentally double click, because the center is never a choice.  this 
> does mean that the nested menus 'creep', but that has the effect that 
> each nested choice is a 'gesture-like' unique series of clicks.

A smarter approach would be to automatically move the cursor itself to
the center of the pie menu (without moving the latter to avoid an
annoying "drifting" effect) when you click on a sub-menu.

However, I never found the fact that the pie menu was not centered on
the cursor after a click on a sub-menu item to be an hinderance, since
the whole idea about pie menus is that you quickly get your "muscle
memory" trained and don't even have to look at the menu any more after
you are trained. For example, my "muscles know" that to delete an
in-world object I must right click on it, then move south, left click
(for "More >"), and move north east and left click again (for Delete).
With the new method, I'd simply have to replace "north east" with
"east" in my muscle memory (which would make me miss quite a number
of clicks at first, since this memory has been trained and used for
almost 4 years now, so if you reimplement pie-menus in this new way,
I'd appreciate a debug option to prevent the auto-recentering of the
cursor)...

Regards,

Henri.
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Kelly Linden]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Kelly Linden  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:43 AM, Aidan Thornton wrote:
>
>> On 8/19/10, Kelly Linden  wrote:
>> > I just wanted to point out that this theoretical new user's username
>> would
>> > be baloo198731, it would not be baloo198731.resident. The 'Resident'
>> isn't
>> > really a part of a new user's identity. It is only shown to viewers that
>> do
>> > not support display names and legacy LSL script calls - in other words
>> that
>> > last name is only there when required for backwards compatibility.
>> >
>>
>> Which has the interesting side-effect that you can't trivially convert
>> from a username to a legacy full name since there are two different
>> possible conversions and no way of telling which is correct without
>> accessing the login database, right?
>>
>>
> There is no such thing as a legacy full name for non-legacy accounts.  We
> tack on a 'Resident' last name when required for compatibility with viewers
> that do not understand display names and legacy LSL calls, but it is not a
> part of their name. But in essence you are correct. You can go from a 'full
> name' to a 'username' but not as easily the other way - though parsing for a
> '.' is likely to get you pretty good results. If you have the UUID (which
> you should in both viewer code and LSL) you can get whichever name you want
> - username, full name or display name.
>
>  - Kelly
>
>
I have been corrected. Only 'legacy' names will have a '.'. I was not aware
when I responded above that the period is not valid in new user names. So
yes, you can parse for a '.' to know if it is a 'legacy' name or a new name.
Sorry for the confusion.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

[Kadah]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1



On 8/19/2010 10:16 AM, Henri Beauchamp wrote:
> A smarter approach would be to automatically move the cursor itself to
> the center of the pie menu (without moving the latter to avoid an
> annoying "drifting" effect) when you click on a sub-menu.
> 
> However, I never found the fact that the pie menu was not centered on
> the cursor after a click on a sub-menu item to be an hinderance, since
> the whole idea about pie menus is that you quickly get your "muscle
> memory" trained and don't even have to look at the menu any more after
> you are trained. For example, my "muscles know" that to delete an
> in-world object I must right click on it, then move south, left click
> (for "More >"), and move north east and left click again (for Delete).
> With the new method, I'd simply have to replace "north east" with
> "east" in my muscle memory (which would make me miss quite a number
> of clicks at first, since this memory has been trained and used for
> almost 4 years now, so if you reimplement pie-menus in this new way,
> I'd appreciate a debug option to prevent the auto-recentering of the
> cursor)...

Same here. I would impliment pie menus as 2 debug settings,
UseLegacyPieMenus and LegacyPieMenusDisableAutoCenter.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

[Marine Kelley]

That would be awesome. I know there are reasons behind the removal of the
pie menu and its replacement by a well known list menu, but PLEASE I am so
much more productive and less frustrated with the old pie menu ! Muscle
memory and size of the clickable areas and all that. Simply put with the
list menu I have to look where I'm clicking, with the pie menu I don't. It
is a huge gain of time.


On 19 August 2010 19:24, Kadah  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>
> On 8/19/2010 10:16 AM, Henri Beauchamp wrote:
> > A smarter approach would be to automatically move the cursor itself to
> > the center of the pie menu (without moving the latter to avoid an
> > annoying "drifting" effect) when you click on a sub-menu.
> >
> > However, I never found the fact that the pie menu was not centered on
> > the cursor after a click on a sub-menu item to be an hinderance, since
> > the whole idea about pie menus is that you quickly get your "muscle
> > memory" trained and don't even have to look at the menu any more after
> > you are trained. For example, my "muscles know" that to delete an
> > in-world object I must right click on it, then move south, left click
> > (for "More >"), and move north east and left click again (for Delete).
> > With the new method, I'd simply have to replace "north east" with
> > "east" in my muscle memory (which would make me miss quite a number
> > of clicks at first, since this memory has been trained and used for
> > almost 4 years now, so if you reimplement pie-menus in this new way,
> > I'd appreciate a debug option to prevent the auto-recentering of the
> > cursor)...
>
> Same here. I would impliment pie menus as 2 debug settings,
> UseLegacyPieMenus and LegacyPieMenusDisableAutoCenter.
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Lance Corrimal]

Am Thursday 19 August 2010 schrieb Kelly Linden:
> No. Account names must be unique. No new user can create ann.otoole
> OR annotoole as a username, that name is taken by you.


Can someone else set the DISPLAY NAME to "Lance Corrimal" ???


bye,
LC
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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

[Tateru Nino]

On 20/08/2010 3:16 AM, Henri Beauchamp wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:04:21 -0400, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
>
>>On 2010-08-18 14:14, Aidan Thornton wrote:
>>> On 8/18/10, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)   wrote:
 While there were some good things about the v1 implementation of pie
 menus, they also had some flaws - such as not opening a submenu centered
 on the mouse click.
>>> I actually puzzled over this a bit when I first realised that Second
>>> Life's pie menus worked this way. Originally, the pie menus worked
>>> well when you didn't click too close to the edge of the screen but
>>> didn't actually open under the mouse cursor if you did. Since the
>>> "More..." item is sensibly always the southmost one, opening new
>>> submenus centered on the mouse would cause the pie menu to drift down
>>> the screen until it hit the bottom and caused problems.
>>>
>>> Also, opening the submenu at the same location has the nice
>>> side-effect that the mouse remains over the "More..." option for the
>>> pie menus that are nested 3 or more levels deep.
>>>
>>> What I have been contemplating is how to make it possible to open the
>>> next layer of a pie menu without moving the mouse at all. Sadly, it'd
>>> probably break too much from normal UI conventions to be worth doing.
>> If I understood him correctly, what Q seemed to think was the right
>> behavior is:
>>
>>  * The first mouse-down opens the pie centered on the mouse location,
>>so no choice is under the mouse
>>  * If the choice is a submenu, each new menu is also centered on the
>>mouse
>>
>> that way, you are never making a choice within the submenu if you
>> accidentally double click, because the center is never a choice.  this
>> does mean that the nested menus 'creep', but that has the effect that
>> each nested choice is a 'gesture-like' unique series of clicks.
> A smarter approach would be to automatically move the cursor itself to
> the center of the pie menu (without moving the latter to avoid an
> annoying "drifting" effect) when you click on a sub-menu.
>
> However, I never found the fact that the pie menu was not centered on
> the cursor after a click on a sub-menu item to be an hinderance, since
> the whole idea about pie menus is that you quickly get your "muscle
> memory" trained and don't even have to look at the menu any more after
> you are trained. For example, my "muscles know" that to delete an
> in-world object I must right click on it, then move south, left click
> (for "More>"), and move north east and left click again (for Delete).
> With the new method, I'd simply have to replace "north east" with
> "east" in my muscle memory (which would make me miss quite a number
> of clicks at first, since this memory has been trained and used for
> almost 4 years now, so if you reimplement pie-menus in this new way,
> I'd appreciate a debug option to prevent the auto-recentering of the
> cursor)...
For a while, I was somewhat spoiled by colour-coded, multi-layered 
concentric radial menus. A chance to preview the whole menu tree with a 
little mouse-wiggling before selecting an option.

A bit like this: 
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6C7jhrvrP14/SCIXQ0vvNFI/AJM/cCtvGNWR0co/s400/menu.png

-- 
Tateru Nino
http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/

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[opensource-dev] no "allow create landmark" in 2.1?

[Lance Corrimal]

is it just my failing eyesight, or is there no "allow create landmark" 
checkbox in "about land" in 2.1 (snowglobe 2.1.0 r3622) ???


bye,
LC
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Kadah]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


On 8/19/2010 10:15 AM, Daniel Smith wrote:
> And it's not just a display issue.  What happens with chat and im logs?  Are
> they going to only show the displayname?

I have no idea what it will be, but I'm hoping for IMs it will continue
to use the username as the filename for the log, and put both names in
to the local and group chat logs.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

[David M Chess]

Marine Kelley : 

> That would be awesome. I know there are reasons behind the removal of 
the pie menu and its replacement by a well known list menu, but PLEASE I 
am so 
> much more productive and less frustrated with the old pie menu ! Muscle 
memory and size of the clickable areas and all that. Simply put with the 
list menu I 
> have to look where I'm clicking, with the pie menu I don't. It is a huge 
gain of time.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement

[Carlo Wood]

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 11:41:38AM -0400, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> We still do require a Contribution Agreement, for good and valid reasons I've
> explained many times - most notably that it allows us to improve our license 
> in
> the future.  Had we not required the CA in the past, we would not have been
> able to change from GPL to LGPL.

A major disadvantage of the CA, however, is that you cannot use ANY of the
improvements written by TPV developers.

If it were possible to cherry pick the improvements of -say- emerald,
then that would boost the usability of the viewer imho.

In other cases you can almost speak of obstruction of progress: For example,
I'd really like to see support of shared windlight settings. This has already
been written and is in operation on certain opensim grids. However, we CANNOT
use it! If we want this too (and we do) then we'll have to re-invent the wheel
JUST because of this license problem. It's not just the extra time that that
will cost, it's also necessarily going to using a different, incompatible 
format,
which is going to be highly annoying for the currently existing implementors
and their users.

Without the CA, the source code would be TRUELY open in the sense that
everyone would be able to use the code from everyone and improve on that.

As it is, the Third Party Viewers will base their code on viewer-development
and then add extensions that only they can exchange among themselves. Extensions
that the users will need at some point, so that they HAVE to use a third party
viewer. 'Viewer-development' in itself will no longer be used, except by
total noobs who just learned about Second Life and were fooled into thinking
that that viewer is usable by reading the "official" Linden Lab webpages (that
no doubt will continue to advertise the "official viewer" and the Greatest)
until a few weeks later one of their friends convinces them otherwise.

-- 
Carlo Wood 
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[opensource-dev] Viewer-external vs viewer-development

[Kitty]

Sorry if this has already come up, but is there any ETA on when all of
viewer-external (*not* Snowglobe) will make it into viewer-development?

I.e. the last SVN code drop from 2 days ago changes
LLViewerObject::getItemID() to "getAttachedItemID()", and all "childXXX"
calls on LLView are replaced with viewp->getChildView("...")->XXX (among
other things, but those were easiest to try and look for).

Those changes don't seem to exist in viewer-development yet so now we have
two disjointed source trees for the main viewer with bits and pieces in one
but not the other? *confuzzled*

Kitty

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Re: [opensource-dev] no "allow create landmark" in 2.1?

[Kadah]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 8/19/2010 10:37 AM, Lance Corrimal wrote:
> is it just my failing eyesight, or is there no "allow create landmark" 
> checkbox in "about land" in 2.1 (snowglobe 2.1.0 r3622) ???

It's not there in 2.1.1.208114 either >_>;
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Michael Schlenker]

Am 19.08.2010 um 11:51 schrieb Argent Stonecutter:

> 
> On 2010-08-18, at 13:19, Michael Schlenker wrote:
>>> Can you elaborate on what kind of RP would require you to be able to set 
>>> your display name to "Argent Stonecutter"
> 
>> Sure. Anywhere you wanna have uniform appearance, like having a bunch of 
>> 'Agent Smith' AVs in black suits to give the 
>> impression of identical twins or clones.
> 
> That wouldn't be "having the same display name as a user name".
> 
> That would be "having the same display name as another display name". I'm not 
> talking about that. Is anyone talking about that?
> 
Its a special case of the general case, i didn't check but I'm pretty sure 
'Agent Smith' is taken by someone. If it is and you
had your way it would not be possible to use that name.

But lets have another take at this, you want to ban people from using 'Argent 
Stonecutter' as a display name, fine.
How about any homographs of your current SL name, should they also be banned?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack

It opens a can of worms.

How about a display option in the viewer that can 'highlight' the fact that 
your display name is the same as your username
(different colour, font or an other UI hint). 
That would prevent many of the imposter issues, as it would be pretty obvious.

Maybe an opt-out to deny the use of current usernames as display names would be 
appropriate, but a general ban to reuse a current username 
as a display name sounds a bit excessive.

Michael



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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Daniel Smith]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Michael Schlenker
 wrote:
>
>
> How about a display option in the viewer that can 'highlight' the fact that 
> your display name is the same as your username
> (different colour, font or an other UI hint).
> That would prevent many of the imposter issues, as it would be pretty obvious.
>
> Maybe an opt-out to deny the use of current usernames as display names would 
> be appropriate, but a general ban to reuse a current username
> as a display name sounds a bit excessive.
>

I had written earlier about the reverse, make it an opt-in to allow
the use of a username as
a displayname by others.  Consider another opt-in feature that gets at
privacy: ability
to map someone.  I have to grant that to individuals.   That's the way
it should be.

The default situation should be "I have taken a moment to think about
the implications
of others using my username, and I trust them, and I am fine with
that, so I will
make the decision to turn it on".

I still have not heard a definitive answer as to what gets logged in
IM and Chat.
Forget the "display" for a moment.  What do you want to have logged as
"Michael Schlenker"
that you did not write?

--
Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[David M Chess]

Daniel Smith :

>I still have not heard a definitive answer as to what gets logged in
>IM and Chat.
>Forget the "display" for a moment.  What do you want to have logged as
>"Michael Schlenker"
>that you did not write?

Not to be a wet blanket, but anyone can sign their email "David Chess" 
right now, or create "david_ch...@foo.nom", or even (if their last name is 
"Chess" anyway) *name their children* "David Chess", and there's not a 
thing I can do about it. 

So the possibility of text with my name on it, that I did not in fact 
write, is already something that I live with constantly, that we all live 
with constantly, and that we seem to be able to cope with pretty well.

I am also curious about what will get logged in IM and chatlogs, though. 
Maybe there will be an "include user name in chatlogs" option in 
Preferences, or something?  (Just like there's a switch that includes 
timestamps now, for instance.)  I can see that being useful (maybe as the 
default, even).

Dave Chess / Dale Innis (but not the only person bearing either of those 
names!)

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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Daniel Smith]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 12:37 PM, David M Chess  wrote:
>
> Daniel Smith :
>
>>I still have not heard a definitive answer as to what gets logged in
>>IM and Chat.
>>Forget the "display" for a moment.  What do you want to have logged as
>>"Michael Schlenker"
>>that you did not write?
>
> Not to be a wet blanket, but anyone can sign their email "David Chess" right
> now, or create "david_ch...@foo.nom", or even (if their last name is "Chess"
> anyway) *name their children* "David Chess", and there's not a thing I can
> do about it.
>

Yep, I think we all know this.  I sent my first email in 1981...

The focus here is identity within SL.  We work hard to craft our AVs
and our reputations.  If you want to use your analogy, you would be
the only david_ch...@somesluser.com.  Now, do you want someone
impersonating that?  Because that's the sort of thing I am getting at
with the displaynames functionality.

cheers,

Daniel


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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Michael Schlenker]

Am 19.08.2010 um 21:30 schrieb Daniel Smith:

> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Michael Schlenker
>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> How about a display option in the viewer that can 'highlight' the fact that 
>> your display name is the same as your username
>> (different colour, font or an other UI hint).
>> That would prevent many of the imposter issues, as it would be pretty 
>> obvious.
>> 
>> Maybe an opt-out to deny the use of current usernames as display names would 
>> be appropriate, but a general ban to reuse a current username
>> as a display name sounds a bit excessive.
>> 
> 

> The default situation should be "I have taken a moment to think about
> the implications
> of others using my username, and I trust them, and I am fine with
> that, so I will
> make the decision to turn it on".
> 
> I still have not heard a definitive answer as to what gets logged in
> IM and Chat.
> Forget the "display" for a moment.  What do you want to have logged as
> "Michael Schlenker"
> that you did not write?

Well 'Michael Schlenker' is common enough that i regularly have issues with the 
name (and even more so initials) being taken
already and even getting emails and stuff because of that. So i do not worry 
about things getting logged with my name,
as i know it happens, and does not create huge troubles, unless some malicious 
person actively exploits it (or some agency
is incompetent like the social registry in germany which messed up my records 
with the ones of my twin for years).

But you look from the wrong direction and construct unrealistic scenarios.
1. If you log things, use the UUID internally, store the display name with it 
(as it can change) and make it just a display option what is shown, ever other 
way to implement
   logging is simply wrong
2. For the UI either make an option so display names that match the legacy 
username of the AV are highlighted or the opposite,
   to provide an easy non script based option to verify a legacy username users 
identity via name alone.
3. Provide an explicit opt-out for those that are seriously worried (typically 
shop owners, or other 'public figures').

That would pretty much match the typical regulations in RL, at least in germany 
(don't know enough about US or other law).

The fact that your current username is unique is just a coincidence of the LL 
decision to use that username as a key in their database. Its not a natural law 
to have a unique name.

Michael




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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Marine Kelley]

Well it must be obvious for any user that anyone they see or hear or receive
an IM from is using either a user name or a display name. And by obvious I
mean "validated by the server during the transaction", not "forged by
another viewer which can pretend to use any user name". In other words, any
token of information (visual or textual) is signed with the user name of the
agent, and that signature is generated server side. Security must always be
server side anyway. The way the receiving viewer interprets those signatures
is not important. It could simply enclose a display name into brackets, for
instance, or display it in green, or add "this is a display name" after it,
or whatever. But the viewer must have a way to clearly distinguish the two
names, and to clearly relay the information to the user.


On 19 August 2010 21:55, Michael Schlenker  wrote:

>
> Am 19.08.2010 um 21:30 schrieb Daniel Smith:
>
> > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Michael Schlenker
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> How about a display option in the viewer that can 'highlight' the fact
> that your display name is the same as your username
> >> (different colour, font or an other UI hint).
> >> That would prevent many of the imposter issues, as it would be pretty
> obvious.
> >>
> >> Maybe an opt-out to deny the use of current usernames as display names
> would be appropriate, but a general ban to reuse a current username
> >> as a display name sounds a bit excessive.
> >>
> >
>
> > The default situation should be "I have taken a moment to think about
> > the implications
> > of others using my username, and I trust them, and I am fine with
> > that, so I will
> > make the decision to turn it on".
> >
> > I still have not heard a definitive answer as to what gets logged in
> > IM and Chat.
> > Forget the "display" for a moment.  What do you want to have logged as
> > "Michael Schlenker"
> > that you did not write?
>
> Well 'Michael Schlenker' is common enough that i regularly have issues with
> the name (and even more so initials) being taken
> already and even getting emails and stuff because of that. So i do not
> worry about things getting logged with my name,
> as i know it happens, and does not create huge troubles, unless some
> malicious person actively exploits it (or some agency
> is incompetent like the social registry in germany which messed up my
> records with the ones of my twin for years).
>
> But you look from the wrong direction and construct unrealistic scenarios.
> 1. If you log things, use the UUID internally, store the display name with
> it (as it can change) and make it just a display option what is shown, ever
> other way to implement
>   logging is simply wrong
> 2. For the UI either make an option so display names that match the legacy
> username of the AV are highlighted or the opposite,
>   to provide an easy non script based option to verify a legacy username
> users identity via name alone.
> 3. Provide an explicit opt-out for those that are seriously worried
> (typically shop owners, or other 'public figures').
>
> That would pretty much match the typical regulations in RL, at least in
> germany (don't know enough about US or other law).
>
> The fact that your current username is unique is just a coincidence of the
> LL decision to use that username as a key in their database. Its not a
> natural law to have a unique name.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm, JIRA and versions

[Carlo Wood]

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 09:45:14PM -0400, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> > for clarification...). If correct, I'll start moving JIRAs from SNOW 
> > to VWR when I see fit.
> 
> That's correct.

I can see some inconvenience arising from renaming SNOW's to VWR's.
We use 'SNOW-xyz' a lot in (text) files to refer to the archive about
it in the jira. I don't think that this link should be lost.

In other words, a rename should not make it impossible to find it
back under the original SNOW-xyz number.

-- 
Carlo Wood 
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[David M Chess]

Daniel Smith :

>The focus here is identity within SL.  We work hard to craft our AVs
>and our reputations.  If you want to use your analogy, you would be
>the only david_ch...@somesluser.com.  Now, do you want someone
>impersonating that?  Because that's the sort of thing I am getting at
>with the displaynames functionality.

Well put!  I think the shift that is happening here is that we're used to 
all names in SL being like "u...@host.com", which we assume to be 
relatively reliable.

The additon of display names means that there will also be names in SL 
that are more like what someone puts in their email sig, which we know to 
be completely unreliable.

While it does require a shift of thinking for us oldbies, I don't think 
that it's all that difficult a shift of thinking, and the advantages in 
flexibility are significant.

Where we do want reliable identities, usernames (the equivalent of 
"u...@host.com") will still be easily accessible.  As I see Torley has 
been busily updating the Wiki page to assure us...  :)

DC/DI
Emperor of Earth

(See what I did there? :) )

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Re: [opensource-dev] To Pie or To List

[Carlo Wood]

I think that "Report Abuse" should always be the top-most menu
entry in every menu, so that it's easy to find and quick to access.

Report first, ask questions later.

Why mute or TP away, or HAHAHA just be mature about something,
when you can Run to Daddy Linden Lab and Report the suckers!!!

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 05:23:37PM -0700, Ricky wrote:
> With the new menu, I've almost reported abuse/returned/etc my own
> items. -1.  It seems to me a little weird that those options show up
> when clicking on something you are both the creator and owner of.
> It's still a little weird even if not the creator, but still the

-- 
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Daniel Smith]

Following up on myself..

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Daniel Smith  wrote:

> What will you do to prevent others from using my username as their
> displayname?
>
> And it's not just a display issue.  What happens with chat and im logs?
Are
> they going to only show the displayname?

>From the FAQ:

* Which name will be used in local, private, and group chats?

You will mostly see Display Names but where it makes sense we will also
provide the username as well. For example, profiles will show both. Local
chat will show the Display Name and you can view a username when clicking on
the Display Name. Instant messages will show Display Name and the username
in the window title bar. For group chat, Display Name will be seen with the
username in the participants list. *

Yikes... That is BAD.  To me, this means that open chat and IMs are being
logged as the DisplayName...  It is not clear where UserName is being
Logged  (I am not talking about Window Titles, I am talking about a
Documentation Trail)

This has way too much potential for abuse.  It means that straight text logs
being saved from viewer are representing users via their DisplayName...
that, in turn, is often copied/pasted elsewhere.   Sure, someone can edit
any log after the fact, but to have the Viewer write the file in the first
place as DisplayName is a bad move.

Please Lindens, tell me I am wrong on this?

Daniel





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Re: [opensource-dev] Update Linux Build Documentation, please?

[Aleric Inglewood]

That document has been recently (pre-viewer-development and hg) updated by
me,
including adding all the caveats that exist for building standalone.

Which part does give you problems? Building on standalone never was
easy-- in fact, before my update it was impossible without being guided
personally by some guru on IRC. I think it was improved GREATLY though
and if you are still not able to compile it then that is certainly not
caused
by the document being out of date as you seem to suggest (and which
you could have seen in the history of it).

Aleric

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:36 AM, Tapple Gao  wrote:

> I'm on Gentoo Linux, and the build instructions for Linux [1] have
> never worked for me (./develop.py cmake; ./develop.py build).
> I've talked with some people on IRC, and I'm now under the
> impression that develop.py is rather obsolete, which may be part
> of my problem. However, that doesn't really help me, as I have
> no idea how to use cmake.
>
> Also, the build instructions have a lot of caveats for
> standalone builders, which, as someone who has never even been
> able to complete a non-standalone build, I am rather confused
> by.
>
> So, I'd like it if someone could update the linux build
> documentation, and make it really easy for first-time
> (non-standalone) builders to follow:
>
> - Show how to use cmake rather than develop.py
> - seperate out standalone and non-standalone into seperate
>  documents
>
> As an aside, the Imprudence viewer team has really overhauled
> the build process, and as a result, Imprudence is the only
> viewer that is actually able to find all my libraries and
> complete a build from an svn checkout. I would strongly suggest
> you integrate their build changes into the main viewer.
>
> If there is really going to be more focus on open source, it is
> really important to make sure new people like me are able to
> compile the viewer from source.
>
> [1] Linux build instructions:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_the_viewer_(Linux)
>
> --
> Matthew Fulmer (a.k.a. Tapple)
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Bryon Ruxton]

On 8/19/10 12:09 PM, "Michael Schlenker"  wrote:

> Am 19.08.2010 um 11:51 schrieb Argent Stonecutter:
> 
>> 
>> On 2010-08-18, at 13:19, Michael Schlenker wrote:
 Can you elaborate on what kind of RP would require you to be able to set
 your display name to "Argent Stonecutter"
>> 
>>> Sure. Anywhere you wanna have uniform appearance, like having a bunch of
>>> 'Agent Smith' AVs in black suits to give the
>>> impression of identical twins or clones.
>> 
>> That wouldn't be "having the same display name as a user name".
>> 
>> That would be "having the same display name as another display name". I'm not
>> talking about that. Is anyone talking about that?
No one should be talking about that. Display Names checked against other
Display Names would be compromising the reasons behind the feature itself.
It should of course be allowed to choose existing Display Names.

> Its a special case of the general case, i didn't check but I'm pretty sure
> 'Agent Smith' is taken by someone. If it is and you
> had your way it would not be possible to use that name.
You have a point, although I would assume all current Last names were
carefully chosen not to imitate that of a superhero, a brand or a famous
movie character like "Agent Smith". In the context of CURRENT usernames that
is, it shouldn't be an issue or only have a very few exceptions. Futures
usernames being more open for such conflicts, with future usernames that
would want to be chosen for Role Playing as Display Names.

But not doing anything about it other that rely on Abuse Report remedies is
not ideal either. The RESI Team is there to handle such issues
appropriately. But that does not minimize the occurrence of such issue
happening in the first place, making it unpleasant for everyone and possibly
causing fraud etc.. and require additional work on our part to file the
report... which is not really fast easy and fun. ;P

As I conveyed in the blog, it could be just a warning rather than a complete
restriction. Such as: "Please be aware that this is a resident's username.
Any deceptive attempt using this resident's name is prohibited..." etc in
the case of a match. Or simply a text warning always displayed below the
Display Name box.
While it maybe only an ounce of prevention, it's worth considering as a
method of reminding people what the rules are, and that they should think
twice about abusing someone's name for deceptive tricks, as well as ease
that concern for everyone and minimize incidents (throw-away alt accounts
excluded of course, not much to do about those).
e.g. We have similar preemptive messages for detected weapon usage in PSG
sandboxes which helps educate naïve newbies about the rules before they get
ejected and/or banned, and it is helpful in minimizing griefing cases...

Or maybe just start with a log count as to how many times someone tried or
used someone else's name, against the number of abuse reports to evaluate
whether such concern is validated and supported by data or not.
And then assess the need for such warning or restriction using meaningful
data, instead of flat out accepting our early assumptions made that it will
plague us with issues...

CUSTOMER SERVICE TIPS to Lindens when you communicate:
It would have been as simple as responding in the blog, that LL will take
such concerns into consideration for further reassessment and study possible
solutions for it welcoming ideas (as I am giving here), rather than saying
that it's already been thought of with the arguments, yet giving the
sentiment that it's a final decision, which is what has been perceived.
Not by me necessarily, but by many others, which doesn't surprise me.
Carefully customer service oriented responses can save you a lot of flaming
posts... Just my 2 cents.

Cheers
Bryon

> But lets have another take at this, you want to ban people from using 'Argent
> Stonecutter' as a display name, fine.
> How about any homographs of your current SL name, should they also be banned?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack
> 
> It opens a can of worms.
> 
> How about a display option in the viewer that can 'highlight' the fact that
> your display name is the same as your username
> (different colour, font or an other UI hint).
> That would prevent many of the imposter issues, as it would be pretty obvious.
> 
> Maybe an opt-out to deny the use of current usernames as display names would
> be appropriate, but a general ban to reuse a current username
> as a display name sounds a bit excessive.
> 
> Michael


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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm, JIRA and versions

[Yoz Grahame]

On 19 August 2010 13:04, Carlo Wood  wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 09:45:14PM -0400, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
> > > for clarification...). If correct, I'll start moving JIRAs from SNOW
> > > to VWR when I see fit.
> >
> > That's correct.
>
> I can see some inconvenience arising from renaming SNOW's to VWR's.
> We use 'SNOW-xyz' a lot in (text) files to refer to the archive about
> it in the jira. I don't think that this link should be lost.
>
> In other words, a rename should not make it impossible to find it
> back under the original SNOW-xyz number.
>

Movement of a JIRA issue between projects *usually* leaves the old one
automatically redirecting to the new one. In other words, all the old links
and references should still take you to the right issue. If this isn't
happening, let me know.

-- Yoz
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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Inventory Transfer

[Baloo Uriza]

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:25:05 -0700, Ricky wrote:

> Well, she was recently instructed by my dad (an advanced user like
> myself) to send him a notecard she was editing.  She asked how.  My dad
> instructed her to "drag it to the IM window."  This she knew how to
> find.  She then complained that it didn't work.  This brought me to look
> at what she was doing.  She was trying to drag the notecard edit window
> onto the chat popup to send him the notecard.

Sounds like your mom might also be relatively inexperienced with working 
with subwindows as well.  However, the instructions given to her could 
have been slightly more clear as well; "drag it to the IM window from 
your inventory" might have worked better.

> Because of this, I would like to put forth the suggestion for further
> study of allowing the user to drag asset windows (notecards, textures,
> etc.) onto the varied existing ways of sending content. (IMs, Profile
> pages, etc)

How would you differentiate someone trying to reorganize subwindows 
within a viewer with inventory transfer events, then?  I think that 
problem makes this suggestion entirely unworkable in practice.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm Backlog Request: SNOW-766

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

Aleric - this seems like a perfectly reasonable improvement to include 
in our general build improvements task for this sprint.


If you would please prepare a public clone of viewer-development in 
which this patch is successfully applied, I'll get it reviewed from 
there and pulled into viewer-development.


Thanks for a very well formulated request.


Status: reviewed by Merov, committed to snowglobe 1.4, 1.5 and 2.1.

Background:

When developing many viewers in parallel (and snowstorm with it's many 
clones that need to be checked out
won't change that), it becomes necessary to automate certain things 
with scripts. One of the things those

scripts need to know is the current build directory.

However, the build directory is a function of the configuration of the 
viewer. In order to remove human
maintenance (and possible errors therein) it is desirable to have an 
automated way to convert configuration

to build directory name.

I wrote such scripts and they "break down" with the current 
viewer-development:


hikaru:/usr/src/secondlife/viewers/snowstorm/test-20100818>source  
env.source

Error: unknown subcommand 'printbuilddirs'
(run 'develop.py --help' for help)
CONFIGURE_OPTS = "--type=Release -m64 --standalone"
CMAKE_DEFS = "-DLL_TESTS:BOOL=ON -DPACKAGE:BOOL=ON 
-DCMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE:BOOL=ON"

CMAKE_PREFIX_PATH = "/sl:/sl/usr"
CMAKE_INCLUDE_PATH = 
"/usr/src/secondlife/llqtwebkit/install2/include:/usr/src/secondlife/viewers/snowstorm/test-20100818/include:/sl/usr/include"

CMAKE_LIBRARY_PATH = "/usr/src/secondlife/llqtwebkit/install2/lib:"

Sprint plan:

Port this patch to viewer-development for the next sprint and test it.

Before patch:

hikaru:/usr/src/secondlife/viewers/snowstorm/test-20100818/linden/indra>./develop.py 
--type=Release -m64 --standalone printbuilddirs
setting DISTCC_DIR to 
/usr/src/secondlife/viewers/snowstorm/test-20100818/linden/indra/.distcc

Error: unknown subcommand 'printbuilddirs'
(run 'develop.py --help' for help)

After patch:

This should print (on this box): viewer-linux-x86_64-release



Please let me know if anything is wrong or missing in this post,
Aleric



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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Lance Corrimal]

Am Thursday 19 August 2010 schrieb Bryon Ruxton:

> As I conveyed in the blog, it could be just a warning rather than a
> complete restriction. Such as: "Please be aware that this is a
> resident's username. Any deceptive attempt using this resident's
> name is prohibited..." etc in the case of a match. Or simply a
> text warning always displayed below the Display Name box.


And of course anyone who would otherwise set the display name to the 
name of a well known creator for fraudulent reasons would be 
absolutely deterred by that.

Besides, there's no point to checking against other people's display 
names, or even real login names, as long as unicode is allowed. Are 
you aware of the fact that there are unicode characters that look 
exactly the same but have different "numbers" and therefor are 
different as far as software comparison algorythms are concerned?


> > Maybe an opt-out to deny the use of current usernames as display
> > names would be appropriate, but a general ban to reuse a current
> > username as a display name sounds a bit excessive.

Totally not. It should even trigger an automated AR for impersonating, 
together with a warning message sent to the current holder of the 
login name... "johndoe1234567890 tried to set his display name to your 
login name. the resi team has been notified."

I have a shop where I sell design sails for sailboats.
What would keep someone from setting his display name to my name, and 
hang out there offering "custom, one of a kind design sails for your 
boat, for 2500L cash in advance" to people, and then run with the 
money?
And I would be the one on the receiving end of the abuse reports.

There would be a market for a totally new kind of security devices... 
"kick anyone out who has a display name that matches the following 
pattern(s) and NOT has a login name that matches one out of this list"

like i said. worms. in cans. by the dozen.


bye,
LC
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Re: [opensource-dev] SSH authentication

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

 On 2010-08-19 8:55, Boroondas Gupte wrote:

*

*
IMPEDIMENTS

* *
  
  *
  (minor) Can't get ssh authentication to
  hg.secondlife.com/bitbucket.org
   working
  *
  
  *

*

*
What exactly isn't working there? Have you followed the steps at 
http://bitbucket.org/help/UsingSSH ? I think it works fine for me (and 
others), so let us know if we can help in any way.


I think it was actually some error in how I'd constructed the key I was 
using.  Aimee walked me through what she was doing, and now I've got it 
working.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Version numbering

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

  On 2010-08-19 12:08, Trilo Byte wrote:
> Now that 2.1.1 has been released, shouldn't nightly builds be labeled 2.1.2?

Yes, probably... still getting that sorted out.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer-external vs viewer-development

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

  On 2010-08-19 14:15, Kitty wrote:
> Sorry if this has already come up, but is there any ETA on when all of
> viewer-external (*not* Snowglobe) will make it into viewer-development?
>
> I.e. the last SVN code drop from 2 days ago changes
> LLViewerObject::getItemID() to "getAttachedItemID()", and all "childXXX"
> calls on LLView are replaced with viewp->getChildView("...")->XXX (among
> other things, but those were easiest to try and look for).
>
> Those changes don't seem to exist in viewer-development yet so now we have
> two disjointed source trees for the main viewer with bits and pieces in one
> but not the other? *confuzzled*

I don't have any more specific timetable than "by the end of this sprint"

We're working to get all internal Linden repositories converted to the 
new structure, and as a side effect will pick up these discrepencies.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Pie menu ideas (was: Re: Open Viewer Development Announcement)

[Marc Adored]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 6:40 AM, Opensource Obscure  wrote:
--snip--
>
> As always, providing users with the ability to choose a different
> system (that is, pie menu) may be ideal - but again, this shouldn't
> have an high priority.

I agree with that. Maybe a simple debug setting or a checkbox or
dropdown box to choose Pie Menu or Standard Menu
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Re: [opensource-dev] Update Linux Build Documentation, pl ease?

[Opensource Obscure]

Aleric, you made a great job with your documention effort!
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_the_viewer_(Linux)
now this page is surely more useful than in the past. However, 
it's still a very long document (not your fault, there's very old
stuff there) and I think we can make it even easier 
to read, to use, and to mantain as well.

So I propose to split the docs: "building for standalone" vs.
"building non-standalone". Just because otherwise it's too long.

As a first step toward this I created this version of the page:
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Opensource_Obscure/Compiling_the_viewer_(Linux)

There I removed anything related to Standalone, plus 
paragraph #10 and following, as there is a note that says
"Everything below is probably outdated" (we can add that
stuff later if/when verified). Feel free to edit.

If we think this is a good idea we can complete the work,
then split the docs and create a separate page, for example
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_a_standalone_viewer_(Linux)

Opensource Obscure
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Baloo Uriza]

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:15:14 -0700, Daniel Smith wrote:

> I'll ask the Lindens a direct question:
> 
> What will you do to prevent others from using my username as their
> displayname?

I'm going to hazard to guess the answer is "nothing."  If anything, this 
brings SL into better parity with the real world, where many people might 
have the same name.

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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Daniel Smith]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Baloo Uriza  wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:15:14 -0700, Daniel Smith wrote:
>
> > I'll ask the Lindens a direct question:
> >
> > What will you do to prevent others from using my username as their
> > displayname?
>
> I'm going to hazard to guess the answer is "nothing."  If anything, this
> brings SL into better parity with the real world, where many people might
> have the same name.
>
>
Thanks for playing.  Just sign up last week?  Based on the feedback here and
on the blog, so many people are upset about this very question that the
Lindens will pretty much have to address the issue.  The documentation trail
on this is a mile long.  If they do nothing, situations will occur that will
end up in court.  Bet on it.

4 year SL'er, Daniel

-- 
Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California
http://daniel.org/resume
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Re: [opensource-dev] Update Linux Build Documentation, please?

[CG Linden]

There is method to our madness...
I put up a wiki page explaining our automated build process at:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Automated_Build_System

Now I wouldn't mind ripping develop.py apart and spreading the guts into the
top level build.sh script, but don't have time to do that right now...
Instead, I'd rather publish a usable version of the shared build scripts so
that everyone can repro our internal builds.
--
cg


On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Opensource Obscure wrote:

>
> Aleric, you made a great job with your documention effort!
> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_the_viewer_(Linux)
> now this page is surely more useful than in the past. However,
> it's still a very long document (not your fault, there's very old
> stuff there) and I think we can make it even easier
> to read, to use, and to mantain as well.
>
> So I propose to split the docs: "building for standalone" vs.
> "building non-standalone". Just because otherwise it's too long.
>
> As a first step toward this I created this version of the page:
>
> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Opensource_Obscure/Compiling_the_viewer_(Linux)
>
> There I removed anything related to Standalone, plus
> paragraph #10 and following, as there is a note that says
> "Everything below is probably outdated" (we can add that
> stuff later if/when verified). Feel free to edit.
>
> If we think this is a good idea we can complete the work,
> then split the docs and create a separate page, for example
> https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_a_standalone_viewer_(Linux)
>
> Opensource Obscure
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[mysticaldemina]

Seems like twitter has a pretty good solution.  Display names are unique.
And your login account isn't public so you have better security.  Default
your display name to your current SL name.  After that people can request
the name they want.  As far as scripts, chat, everything else, that use your
text version of your name, they all change on other systems and we get by.

 

Mystical

 

  _  

From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
[mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Daniel
Smith
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:53 PM
To: Baloo Uriza; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

 

 

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Baloo Uriza  wrote:

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:15:14 -0700, Daniel Smith wrote:

> I'll ask the Lindens a direct question:
>
> What will you do to prevent others from using my username as their
> displayname?

I'm going to hazard to guess the answer is "nothing."  If anything, this
brings SL into better parity with the real world, where many people might
have the same name.





Thanks for playing.  Just sign up last week?  Based on the feedback here and
on the blog, so many people are upset about this very question that the
Lindens will pretty much have to address the issue.  The documentation trail
on this is a mile long.  If they do nothing, situations will occur that will
end up in court.  Bet on it.

4 year SL'er, Daniel

-- 
Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California
http://daniel.org/resume

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Re: [opensource-dev] Update Linux Build Documentation, please?

[Dickson, Mike (ISS Software)]

CG, I get not found errors when trying to access the hg repository for the 
build system.  Is this repository not operational yet or is the link incorrect 
in the doc.  Thx!

Mike

From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com 
[mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of CG Linden
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 8:01 PM
To: Opensource Obscure
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Update Linux Build Documentation, please?

There is method to our madness...
I put up a wiki page explaining our automated build process at:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Automated_Build_System

Now I wouldn't mind ripping develop.py apart and spreading the guts into the 
top level build.sh script, but don't have time to do that right now... Instead, 
I'd rather publish a usable version of the shared build scripts so that 
everyone can repro our internal builds.
--
cg

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Opensource Obscure 
mailto:o...@autistici.org>> wrote:

Aleric, you made a great job with your documention effort!
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_the_viewer_(Linux)
now this page is surely more useful than in the past. However,
it's still a very long document (not your fault, there's very old
stuff there) and I think we can make it even easier
to read, to use, and to mantain as well.

So I propose to split the docs: "building for standalone" vs.
"building non-standalone". Just because otherwise it's too long.

As a first step toward this I created this version of the page:
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Opensource_Obscure/Compiling_the_viewer_(Linux)

There I removed anything related to Standalone, plus
paragraph #10 and following, as there is a note that says
"Everything below is probably outdated" (we can add that
stuff later if/when verified). Feel free to edit.

If we think this is a good idea we can complete the work,
then split the docs and create a separate page, for example
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_a_standalone_viewer_(Linux)

Opensource Obscure
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[David M Chess]

Daniel Smith :

> Thanks for playing.  Just sign up last week?  

That's rude, unnecessary, and arrogant.  I joined in 2006, and I think 
Baloo is quite likely correct.  There's no call to insult someone just 
because they dare to disagree with you.

Let's try to keep it civil.

DC/DL

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Re: [opensource-dev] To Pie or To List

[Ricky]

Either way, I still see it as of little use with objects I own or am
the creator of!

As regards the order for objects for which I am neither creator nor
owner I have no suggestion.  The current order might make sense.  Then
again, Do I ever have permission to /Delete/ someone else's objects?
Not so far as I know.  /Return/ would be the only available option,
and then only if I have edit privs on the owner's goods, am in a group
that allows me to return other's goods on the given parcel, or am the
landowner.

This is starting to sound like it's time for a list:
* I am Owner
** "Report Abuse" is deactivated (Doesn't make sense!)
** "Block" is active (I may want to mute my own objects after all!)
** "Return" is deactivated
** "Delete" is active
* I am Creator but not Owner and I have no privileges granted
** "Report Abuse" is deactivated (NOTE)
** "Block" is active
** "Return" is deactivated
** "Delete" is deactivated
* I have been either granted Edit on the Owner's goods, am a member of
a group that the land is deeded to, the group I'm a part of has return
privs, or I am the land owner:
** "Report Abuse" is active
** "Block" is active
** "Return" is active
** "Delete" is deactivated (Unless for some reason land owners can
delete objects This I am unsure of.  Typically I've seen them
return items.)
* Otherwise (Not Creator, Not Owner, No Privs)
** "Report Abuse" is active
** "Block" is active
** "Return" is deactivated
** "Delete" is deactivated

(NOTE) There may be a use case here for "Report Abuse" to be active on
an object I am the creator of, but not the owner: If the object is
modifiable, it's parts may have been used to make something offensive.
 I'd rather keep the option open in this case.

Order may be largely a preference, but I think that "Delete" should be
topmost, if available as an option.  However this may create another
usability issue if the order of items in the menu follows a logical,
but seemingly random to beginners, order depending on context: A first
timer would have difficulty knowing beforehand which item will be in
what position in the menu.  So the order may need to be fixed, just
having unusable elements grayed out and deactivated in certain
contexts.

Ricky
Cron Stardust

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Carlo Wood  wrote:
> I think that "Report Abuse" should always be the top-most menu
> entry in every menu, so that it's easy to find and quick to access.
>
> Report first, ask questions later.
>
> Why mute or TP away, or HAHAHA just be mature about something,
> when you can Run to Daddy Linden Lab and Report the suckers!!!
>
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 05:23:37PM -0700, Ricky wrote:
>> With the new menu, I've almost reported abuse/returned/etc my own
>> items. -1.  It seems to me a little weird that those options show up
>> when clicking on something you are both the creator and owner of.
>> It's still a little weird even if not the creator, but still the
>
> --
> Carlo Wood 
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Inventory Transfer

[Ricky]

Very good question, and was the reason for my note bout accidental
inventory transfers.

The solution I alluded to was to pop up an "are you sure" style dialog
box.  However, I hate those with a passion.  So I'm fishing for more
optimal solutions.  It is possible there may be no good solution to
this difficulty, but at least it will have been discussed, and may
spawn other improvements or be revisited later.

Ricky
Cron Stardust

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Baloo Uriza  wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:25:05 -0700, Ricky wrote:
>
>> Well, she was recently instructed by my dad (an advanced user like
>> myself) to send him a notecard she was editing.  She asked how.  My dad
>> instructed her to "drag it to the IM window."  This she knew how to
>> find.  She then complained that it didn't work.  This brought me to look
>> at what she was doing.  She was trying to drag the notecard edit window
>> onto the chat popup to send him the notecard.
>
> Sounds like your mom might also be relatively inexperienced with working
> with subwindows as well.  However, the instructions given to her could
> have been slightly more clear as well; "drag it to the IM window from
> your inventory" might have worked better.
>
>> Because of this, I would like to put forth the suggestion for further
>> study of allowing the user to drag asset windows (notecards, textures,
>> etc.) onto the varied existing ways of sending content. (IMs, Profile
>> pages, etc)
>
> How would you differentiate someone trying to reorganize subwindows
> within a viewer with inventory transfer events, then?  I think that
> problem makes this suggestion entirely unworkable in practice.
>
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[opensource-dev] Snowstorm Daily Scrum Summary - 08/19/2010

[Esbee Linden (Sarah Hutchinson)]

Date: Thu Aug 19

Daily Scrum Summary also available online: 
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Snowstorm_Daily_Scrum_Archive

== GENERAL NOTES ==
Q is OOO for the next few days
Remember to update the Sprint Backlog!


== DAILY SCRUM ==

=== Aimee ===
PAST
Staged some more build fixes from Snowglobe into 
aimee_linden/viewer-development-import
Merged into to viewer-development
Talked to open sourcers on #opensl some about working with Mercurial and 
bitbucket

FUTURE
Pull in some more Snowglobe fixes
Merge from aimee_linden/viewer-development-import to viewer-development
Rinse and repeat
Get weird sense of deja-vu that I wrote this same update yesterday.

IMPEDIMENTS
None.


=== Tofu ===
OOO


=== Oz ===
PAST
New wiki page on 'Developing Viewer Code' 
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Develop_Viewer_Code
Build notices from canonical build of viewer-development to list
Office Hours

FUTURE
Process discussions with Esbee
More wiki improvements
Set up experimental repository
Post archive of yesterdays OH
Add transcriber to this scrum meeting space

IMPEDIMENTS
(minor) Can't get ssh authentication to hg.secondlife.com/bitbucket.org workin


=== Merov ===
PAST
Snowstorm sync: done the Windows part (task completed)
LLKDU in viewer-development: investigated the new build.sh and differences with 
opensrc-build.sh previously used in Snowglobe.
Snowglobe 1.4 release: fixed llkdu issue with svn rev 3623

FUTURE
LLKDU in viewer-development: current use of -DINSTALL_PROPRIETARY:BOOL=ON is a 
hack that needs to go as it's not available for non Lindens. Will work on 
modifying build.sh to use the kdu-binaries packages.

IMPEDIMENTS
None


=== Q ===
OOO


=== Esbee ===
PAST
Didn't get to any bug triage today, will reserve afternoon for this today
Sent out reminder to team about using the sprint backlog
Responded to more SLCC and Snowstorm blog feedback
Chatted with Oz and Dessie about versioning and development/project viewer bug 
reporting
Talked to Howard and Q about ways to gather Resident feedback and ideas

FUTURE
Jira bug triage for Sprint 2
Assist team with Scrum tasks
Continue to follow up on SLCC and Snowstorm blog feedback
Continue Jira EXT cleanup
Start adding Resident feedback/ideas/user stories to the Snowstorm Backlog on a 
new tab
Document idea submission process and worm with those ideas
Sketch undockable/dockable sidebar design and send to XD team for a quick review

IMPEDIMENTS
None


=== Paul ===
PAST
BUG EXT-8405 (Clicking an attachment switches the Add More inventory to Flat 
view)
In  progress 95%. 

FUTURE
BUG EXT-8405 (Clicking an attachment switches the Add More inventory to Flat 
view)

IMPEDIMENTS
none
note: vacation request 09.13-09.24


=== Andrew ===
PAST
Pushed tickets that passed review
Task VWR-20703(Research bottom bar code)
Investigation more or less complete
Started writing test code for moving buttons
Cloned and built viewer-development

FUTURE
Task VWR-20702(Snowstorm Sprint 2: As a User who's customized the bottom bar of 
the Viewer UI, I also want to be able to control the order of the buttons as 
they appear in the UI.)

IMPEDIMENTS
none


=== Vadim ===
PAST
Task VWR-20724 (Missing underlined shortcuts in some top-level menus):

Implemented, committed.
Task VWR-20734 (Changed parcel properties to default to "on" in the location 
bar):

Implemented, committed.
Helping web site developers to investigate a problem with viewer requiring user 
to upgrade to Premium account before buying a parcel on the mainland.

FUTURE
Discuss proposed commit process 
Proceed with Sprint #2 tasks.

IMPEDIMENTS
What to do with tickets we no longer work on? How to pass them to QA ?


=== Sergey ===
PAST
Bug (EXT-7325) My Landmarks: "Show on Map" context menu item is enabled while 
"Map" button is disabled for selected landmark.
Pushed fix.
Bug (EXT-8697) My Landmarks: 'Cut' item should be greyed out in folder's 
context menu
Pushed fix.
Bug (VWR-20694) Snowstorm Sprint 2: As a User, I want to undock tabs  from the 
Viewer sidebar so that I can control what tabs are displayed  and organize them 
on my screen in any way I want like I could do in  1.23.
WIP. Researching Side Bar, Dockable Floater code.

FUTURE
Bug (VWR-20694) Snowstorm Sprint 2: As a User, I want to undock tabs  from the 
Viewer sidebar so that I can control what tabs are displayed  and organize them 
on my screen in any way I want like I could do in  1.23.

IMPEDIMENTS
none
Vacation Sept 6-9


=== Anya ===
PAST
QA coordination
GH investigation
review of sprint tasks

FUTURE
figure out new process for jira
figure out process for Hg
get answers to questions listed as impediments

IMPEDIMENTS
(actually, just questions)
In Sprint 2 backlog, PE currently has:
Undocking sidebar tabs (VWR-20694).
Reordering bottom bar buttons via D&D (VWR-20702).
Navigating menus with underlined shortcuts (VWR-20722).
1) was Vadim's understanding correct that these tasks are for PE?
yes, that looks reasonable, however tasks should not be assigned until someone 
is 

Re: [opensource-dev] Open Inventory Transfer

[Teravus Ovares]

One way to eliminate the possibility of accidental transfers is a
mandatory confirmation window on the transfer when it's done via
dragging an edit window.   When the item is dragged, a confirmation
box wouldn't be necessary..just when dragging the window.On
the other hand, I don't know of any other interface that creates
actions upon dragging a window.

Regards

Teravus


On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:56 PM, Ricky  wrote:
> Very good question, and was the reason for my note bout accidental
> inventory transfers.
>
> The solution I alluded to was to pop up an "are you sure" style dialog
> box.  However, I hate those with a passion.  So I'm fishing for more
> optimal solutions.  It is possible there may be no good solution to
> this difficulty, but at least it will have been discussed, and may
> spawn other improvements or be revisited later.
>
> Ricky
> Cron Stardust
>
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Baloo Uriza  wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:25:05 -0700, Ricky wrote:
>>
>>> Well, she was recently instructed by my dad (an advanced user like
>>> myself) to send him a notecard she was editing.  She asked how.  My dad
>>> instructed her to "drag it to the IM window."  This she knew how to
>>> find.  She then complained that it didn't work.  This brought me to look
>>> at what she was doing.  She was trying to drag the notecard edit window
>>> onto the chat popup to send him the notecard.
>>
>> Sounds like your mom might also be relatively inexperienced with working
>> with subwindows as well.  However, the instructions given to her could
>> have been slightly more clear as well; "drag it to the IM window from
>> your inventory" might have worked better.
>>
>>> Because of this, I would like to put forth the suggestion for further
>>> study of allowing the user to drag asset windows (notecards, textures,
>>> etc.) onto the varied existing ways of sending content. (IMs, Profile
>>> pages, etc)
>>
>> How would you differentiate someone trying to reorganize subwindows
>> within a viewer with inventory transfer events, then?  I think that
>> problem makes this suggestion entirely unworkable in practice.
>>
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[opensource-dev] Mac Build Failing

[Ricky]

I've pulled rev 11450 (tip at the moment), then cd'd into indra ran
develop.py and the compile failed. More info on procedures I used
after the system specs.

Hardware Overview:
  Model Name:   Mac mini aluminum
  Model Identifier: Macmini4,1
  Processor Name:   Intel Core 2 Duo
  Processor Speed:  2.66 GHz
  Number Of Processors: 1
  Total Number Of Cores:2
  L2 Cache: 3 MB
  Memory:   8 GB
  Bus Speed:1.07 GHz

System Software Overview:
  System Version:   Mac OS X 10.6.4 (10F2025)
  Kernel Version:   Darwin 10.4.1
  Boot Volume:  System Drive
  Boot Mode:Normal
  Secure Virtual Memory:Not Enabled
  64-bit Kernel and Extensions: No

Procedure 1: (It defaulted to RelWithDebInfo)
hg pull
hg up
cd indra
./develop.py configure
./develop.py build

Error:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
** BUILD FAILED **

The following build commands failed:
package:
PhaseScriptExecution "CMake PostBuild Rules"
/Users/ricky/Development/linden/indra/build-darwin-i386/newview/SecondLife.build/RelWithDebInfo/package.build/Script-1C6E7B01C6E7B01C6E7B.sh
(1 failure)

Error: the command 'xcodebuild' exited with status 1
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Procedure 2: (Switching to Release.  Took longer, failed anyway.)
hg pull
hg up
cd indra
./develop.py -t Release configure
./develop.py -t Release build

Error:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
** BUILD FAILED **

The following build commands failed:
INTEGRATION_TEST_llsecapi:
Ld 
/Users/ricky/Development/linden/indra/build-darwin-i386/sharedlibs/Release/Release/INTEGRATION_TEST_llsecapi
normal i386
PhaseScriptExecution "CMake PostBuild Rules"
/Users/ricky/Development/linden/indra/build-darwin-i386/newview/SecondLife.build/Release/INTEGRATION_TEST_llsecapi.build/Script-1BC14D01BC14D01BC14D.sh
package:
PhaseScriptExecution "CMake PostBuild Rules"
/Users/ricky/Development/linden/indra/build-darwin-i386/newview/SecondLife.build/Release/package.build/Script-1C6E9E01C6E9E01C6E9E.sh
(3 failures)

Error: the command 'xcodebuild' exited with status 1
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


What should I do? Is this a known issue?

Ricky
Cron Stardust
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Argent Stonecutter]

On 2010-08-19, at 14:09, Michael Schlenker wrote:
> Its a special case of the general case, i didn't check but I'm pretty sure 
> 'Agent Smith' is taken by someone. If it is and you
> had your way it would not be possible to use that name.

Yes. So?

The homograph issue needs to be addressed in any case, so I'm not going to try 
and solve it here.
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Bryon Ruxton]

On 8/19/10 7:20 PM, "Argent Stonecutter"  wrote:

> On 2010-08-19, at 14:09, Michael Schlenker wrote:
>> Its a special case of the general case, i didn't check but I'm pretty sure
>> 'Agent Smith' is taken by someone. If it is and you
>> had your way it would not be possible to use that name.
> 
> Yes. So?
Argent, Keep in mind once the feature is implemented:
One will be able to choose "Captain America"
with captain.america becoming his unique username.
And it wouldn't be fair to prevent anyone else to RP "Captain America" as
his display name. So if there is a restriction it can only be on current/old
"First.Last" usernames, which are unlikely to create such conflicts.



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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers? Correction

[Bryon Ruxton]

On 8/19/10 7:20 PM, "Argent Stonecutter"  wrote:

> On 2010-08-19, at 14:09, Michael Schlenker wrote:
>> Its a special case of the general case, i didn't check but I'm pretty sure
>> 'Agent Smith' is taken by someone. If it is and you
>> had your way it would not be possible to use that name.
> 
> Yes. So?
Argent, Keep in mind once the feature is implemented:
One will be able to choose "Captain America"
with captain.america becoming his unique username.
And it wouldn't be fair to prevent anyone else to RP "Captain America" as
his display name. So if there is a restriction it can only be on current/old
"First.Last" usernames, which are unlikely to create such conflicts.

CORRECTION:
Actually the username will be "captainamerica" not captain.america, my bad.
Which makes it impossible to even know where the space was past the first
Display Name change, since it won't be saved. You can't choose to restrict
"Capt Ainamerica" or "Captaina Merica" on the basis of that username.
It becomes completely impractical at that stage...
That said it'd be nice if earlier residents get the benefit of having their
"nromal" legacy name protected as a plus for the inconvenience caused...


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[opensource-dev] newview should be a diff lisc

[Brandon Husbands]

if you really wanna help out the community and have advancement tale newview
seperate it and allow it to contain changes that can be closed source.
the rest of the projects/libs should be lgpl. just my two cents.

Anyone wanting to have a closed source viewer has to basically rewrite
newview at this time.

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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Baloo Uriza]

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:53:18 -0700, Daniel Smith wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Baloo Uriza
>  wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:15:14 -0700, Daniel Smith wrote:
>>
>> > I'll ask the Lindens a direct question:
>> >
>> > What will you do to prevent others from using my username as their
>> > displayname?
>>
>> I'm going to hazard to guess the answer is "nothing."  If anything,
>> this brings SL into better parity with the real world, where many
>> people might have the same name.
>>
>>
> Thanks for playing.  Just sign up last week?

Given that my last name is Uriza and Display Names aren't rolled out yet 
to my knowledge, I believe it's clear I did not.

> If they do nothing, situations will occur that will end up in court.
> Bet on it.

Sure, but even if that's the case, I can't fathom a single situation 
(other than a Linden employee abusing Display Names) that would cause the 
Lindens to be named as a defendant (and not get laughed out of court by 
the judge).

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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Baloo Uriza]

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:42:37 -0700, Bryon Ruxton wrote:

> On 8/19/10 7:20 PM, "Argent Stonecutter"
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 2010-08-19, at 14:09, Michael Schlenker wrote:
>>> Its a special case of the general case, i didn't check but I'm pretty
>>> sure 'Agent Smith' is taken by someone. If it is and you had your way
>>> it would not be possible to use that name.
>> 
>> Yes. So?
> Argent, Keep in mind once the feature is implemented: One will be able
> to choose "Captain America" with captain.america becoming his unique
> username.

Actually, not quite, based on what I saw in Torley's video.  I could 
change my display name to "Captain America," but my unique username would 
still be baloo.uriza.


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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Tateru Nino]

On 20/08/2010 2:51 PM, Baloo Uriza wrote:

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:53:18 -0700, Daniel Smith wrote:


On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Baloo Uriza
  wrote:


On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:15:14 -0700, Daniel Smith wrote:


I'll ask the Lindens a direct question:

What will you do to prevent others from using my username as their
displayname?

I'm going to hazard to guess the answer is "nothing."  If anything,
this brings SL into better parity with the real world, where many
people might have the same name.



Thanks for playing.  Just sign up last week?

Given that my last name is Uriza and Display Names aren't rolled out yet
to my knowledge, I believe it's clear I did not.


If they do nothing, situations will occur that will end up in court.
Bet on it.

Sure, but even if that's the case, I can't fathom a single situation
(other than a Linden employee abusing Display Names) that would cause the
Lindens to be named as a defendant (and not get laughed out of court by
the judge).
Ah, perhaps I can help there. /Marvel vs NCsoft/ (docket: CV 
04-9253RGKPLAX, 9 March, 2005, California district court).


Marvel (back before they had Disney's legion of undead lawyers) sued 
NCsoft over City of Heroes, because the character creator allowed users 
to create avatars that had similar likenesses to or similar names to 
Marvel trademarks. NCsoft eventually capitulated and settled.


--
Tateru Nino
http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/

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Re: [opensource-dev] Open Inventory Transfer

[Baloo Uriza]

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:56:29 -0700, Ricky wrote:

> Very good question, and was the reason for my note bout accidental
> inventory transfers.
> 
> The solution I alluded to was to pop up an "are you sure" style dialog
> box.  However, I hate those with a passion.  So I'm fishing for more
> optimal solutions.  It is possible there may be no good solution to this
> difficulty, but at least it will have been discussed, and may spawn
> other improvements or be revisited later.

Yeah, molly guards tend to be a stopgap for a bad design decision firmly 
engrained in the interface.  A good example of too many molly guards 
would be Outlook, where people ignore them to the point of just clicking 
yes to a dialogue effectively asking them "Are you sure you want to send 
that obscene joke to all 2500 employees in the company?"  (I have seen 
this happen, it caused Exchange to just about die under the pressure, and 
the resulting drama eventually became known long after the source was 
terminated for epic fail of schadenfreude proportions at that company.)

If it /has/ to work in a way that could become a gun, then it's better to 
let the user shoot themselves in the foot than it is to become annoying 
("rm" comes to mind as as a gun, and one that grows in size depending on 
the target and flags used; the GUI equivalent uses a trash folder as a 
safety in most environments).

But, given that there's already several workable way to transfer items 
between avatars, I'm not sure we need to be turning subwindows into 
guns. ;o)

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Re: [opensource-dev] Update Linux Build Documentation, please?

[Lance Corrimal]

Am Friday 20 August 2010 schrieb CG Linden:
> There is method to our madness...
> I put up a wiki page explaining our automated build process at:
> 
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Automated_Build_System
> 
> Now I wouldn't mind ripping develop.py apart and spreading the guts
> into the top level build.sh script, 

NOo


develop.py is a way to actually build...

if i try the toplevel build.sh from the hg repo, all it does is 
complain about not having the top level build scripts which are in a 
hg repo that is not accessible from the outside world... 0.o



bye,
LC
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Re: [opensource-dev] Update Linux Build Documentation, please?

[CG Linden]

Of course I'd only do that -after- providing the shared build scripts.
--
cg

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Lance Corrimal
wrote:

> Am Friday 20 August 2010 schrieb CG Linden:
> > There is method to our madness...
> > I put up a wiki page explaining our automated build process at:
> >
> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Automated_Build_System
> >
> > Now I wouldn't mind ripping develop.py apart and spreading the guts
> > into the top level build.sh script,
>
> NOo
>
>
> develop.py is a way to actually build...
>
> if i try the toplevel build.sh from the hg repo, all it does is
> complain about not having the top level build scripts which are in a
> hg repo that is not accessible from the outside world... 0.o
>
>
>
> bye,
> LC
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[opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Lance Corrimal]

Is it just me or did the lindens stop replying to this topic?


ok, lets try this again.

Here are some distict questions, and I would like to see distinct 
"yes" or "no" answers from linden labs employees, and I would like it 
a lot if, in case no one of the lindens on the list can answer my 
questions in such a disticnt manner, the questions be forwarded to 
someone who can.


1. Will there be procedures in place to prevent someone else to use my 
true avatar name as their display name?

2. Will there be procedures in place to prevent someone from using a 
display name that might be different from my true avatar name but for 
all visual verification looks like it, given how there are unicode 
characters that have a different code but look like regular 
characters?

3. Will there be procedures in place to prevent the case where someone 
uses a copyrighted name of a fictional character (like, for example, 
"Mickey Mouse" or "Clark Kent") as their display name?

4. If the answer to any of the above is not a clear and loud yes: Will 
there be procedures in place to protect the original holder of any 
true avatar name from legal damages after someone used their name as 
their display name for fraudulent uses?

bye,
LC
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Tateru Nino]

  Forwarding your questions through the PR channels, Lance. Although, 
from the documentation provided by the Lab so far, the answer to 
question one is 'no'.

On 20/08/2010 4:38 PM, Lance Corrimal wrote:
> Is it just me or did the lindens stop replying to this topic?
>
>
> ok, lets try this again.
>
> Here are some distict questions, and I would like to see distinct
> "yes" or "no" answers from linden labs employees, and I would like it
> a lot if, in case no one of the lindens on the list can answer my
> questions in such a disticnt manner, the questions be forwarded to
> someone who can.
>
>
> 1. Will there be procedures in place to prevent someone else to use my
> true avatar name as their display name?
>
> 2. Will there be procedures in place to prevent someone from using a
> display name that might be different from my true avatar name but for
> all visual verification looks like it, given how there are unicode
> characters that have a different code but look like regular
> characters?
>
> 3. Will there be procedures in place to prevent the case where someone
> uses a copyrighted name of a fictional character (like, for example,
> "Mickey Mouse" or "Clark Kent") as their display name?
>
> 4. If the answer to any of the above is not a clear and loud yes: Will
> there be procedures in place to protect the original holder of any
> true avatar name from legal damages after someone used their name as
> their display name for fraudulent uses?
>
> bye,
> LC
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-- 
Tateru Nino
Contributing Editor http://massively.com/

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