Re: [opensource-dev] SNOW-375 Binary Package Available

[Dzonatas Sol]

Has client-side scripting and an HTTP/REST server been offered in 
Snowglobe before patch SNOW-375? I'm not sure how you are able to 
determine such features as "derived" from Snowglobe.


The SNOW-375 patch
Morgaine wrote:
> That sounds pretty interesting, Dzonatas.
>
> What is your viewer called, this TPV derived from Snowglobe with an 
> extra patch?
>
>
> Morgaine.
>
>
>
>
>
> =
>
> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Dzonatas Sol  > wrote:
>
> This is a build of Snowglobe with SNOW-375 patch applied. This patch
> provides a HTTP/REST interface to control and automate the Snowglobe
> viewer. Client-side scripts and programs can then add features like
> accessibility functions, automated regression tests, detached editors,
> separate chat windows, inventory organizers, and more.
>
> Linux:
> http://mono.dzonux.net/file/Snowglobe375/Snowglobe-i686-1.4-375.tar.bz2
> 
> 
>
> Source: http://gitweb.dzonux.net/?p=snowglobe-1.4-375.git
> 
> 
>
> See Also: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-375
>
> 
>
> You can experience how such an HTTP/REST interface performs with
> Icesphere, which was the project formerly known as MonoVida Studio and
> MonoVida Communicator.Icesphere interfaces with Snowglobe-375 to
> present
> detached communications and client-side scripting via C#/Mono/.NET.
>
> http://mono.dzonux.net/file/Snowglobe375/communicator.zip
>
> Note: name change not due to pun on grid monkeys =)
>
>
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated
> posting privileges
>
>

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Re: [opensource-dev] SNOW-375 Binary Package Available

[Morgaine]

Nope, client-side scripting and an HTTP/REST server are not in Snowglobe.
Your patch SNOW-375 when applied to Snowglobe sources created a derived work
from Snowglobe.  The derived viewer is clearly a TPV.

This is why I am asking you what this new TPV is called, since it is not
Snowglobe but only based on it.


Morgaine.





===

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Dzonatas Sol  wrote:

> Has client-side scripting and an HTTP/REST server been offered in Snowglobe
> before patch SNOW-375? I'm not sure how you are able to determine such
> features as "derived" from Snowglobe.
>
>
> The SNOW-375 patch
> Morgaine wrote:
>
>> That sounds pretty interesting, Dzonatas.
>>
>> What is your viewer called, this TPV derived from Snowglobe with an extra
>> patch?
>>
>>
>> Morgaine.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Dzonatas Sol > dzona...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>This is a build of Snowglobe with SNOW-375 patch applied. This patch
>>provides a HTTP/REST interface to control and automate the Snowglobe
>>viewer. Client-side scripts and programs can then add features like
>>accessibility functions, automated regression tests, detached editors,
>>separate chat windows, inventory organizers, and more.
>>
>>Linux:
>>
>> http://mono.dzonux.net/file/Snowglobe375/Snowglobe-i686-1.4-375.tar.bz2
>><
>> http://viewerdirectory.secondlife.com/listing/download/137/3/binary/aHR0cDovL21vbm8uZHpvbnV4Lm5ldC9maWxlL1Nub3dnbG9iZTM3NS9Tbm93Z2xvYmUtaTY4Ni0xLjQtMzc1LnRhci5iejI%3D
>> >
>>
>>Source: http://gitweb.dzonux.net/?p=snowglobe-1.4-375.git
>><
>> http://viewerdirectory.secondlife.com/listing/download/137/3/source/aHR0cDovL2dpdHdlYi5kem9udXgubmV0Lz9wPXNub3dnbG9iZS0xLjQtMzc1LmdpdA%3D%3D
>> >
>>
>>See Also: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-375
>>
>>
>>
>>You can experience how such an HTTP/REST interface performs with
>>Icesphere, which was the project formerly known as MonoVida Studio and
>>MonoVida Communicator.Icesphere interfaces with Snowglobe-375 to
>>present
>>detached communications and client-side scripting via C#/Mono/.NET.
>>
>>http://mono.dzonux.net/file/Snowglobe375/communicator.zip
>>
>>Note: name change not due to pun on grid monkeys =)
>>
>>
>>___
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>>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>>Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated
>>posting privileges
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] SNOW-375 Binary Package Available

[Michael Dickson]

Actually his intention could be to contribute the patches *to* snowglobe
in which case it's not a new TPV and a very reasonable example of
cooperation with a company sponsored open source project.

That's actually very likely his intention since the patches *ARE*
SNOW-375 and not MY_TPV-375 or somesuch.

Mike

On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 17:41 +, Morgaine wrote:
> Nope, client-side scripting and an HTTP/REST server are not in
> Snowglobe.  Your patch SNOW-375 when applied to Snowglobe sources
> created a derived work from Snowglobe.  The derived viewer is clearly
> a TPV.
> 
> This is why I am asking you what this new TPV is called, since it is
> not Snowglobe but only based on it.
> 
> 
> Morgaine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ===
> 
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Dzonatas Sol 
> wrote:
> Has client-side scripting and an HTTP/REST server been offered
> in Snowglobe before patch SNOW-375? I'm not sure how you are
> able to determine such features as "derived" from Snowglobe.
> 
> 
> The SNOW-375 patch
> Morgaine wrote:
> That sounds pretty interesting, Dzonatas.
> 
> What is your viewer called, this TPV derived from
> Snowglobe with an extra patch?
> 
> 
> Morgaine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> =
> 
> 
> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Dzonatas Sol
> mailto:dzona...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> 
>This is a build of Snowglobe with SNOW-375 patch
> applied. This patch
>provides a HTTP/REST interface to control and
> automate the Snowglobe
>viewer. Client-side scripts and programs can then
> add features like
>accessibility functions, automated regression
> tests, detached editors,
>separate chat windows, inventory organizers, and
> more.
> 
>Linux:
> 
>  
> http://mono.dzonux.net/file/Snowglobe375/Snowglobe-i686-1.4-375.tar.bz2
> 
>  
> 
> 
>Source:
> http://gitweb.dzonux.net/?p=snowglobe-1.4-375.git
> 
>  
> 
> 
>See Also:
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-375
> 
>
> 
>You can experience how such an HTTP/REST interface
> performs with
>Icesphere, which was the project formerly known as
> MonoVida Studio and
>MonoVida Communicator.Icesphere interfaces with
> Snowglobe-375 to
>present
>detached communications and client-side scripting
> via C#/Mono/.NET.
> 
> 
>  http://mono.dzonux.net/file/Snowglobe375/communicator.zip
> 
>Note: name change not due to pun on grid monkeys =)
> 
> 
>___
>Policies and (un)subscribe information available
> here:
>http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>Please read the policies before posting to keep
> unmoderated
>posting privileges
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [opensource-dev] SNOW-375 Binary Package Available

[Dzonatas Sol]

That's correct.

Michael Dickson wrote:
> Actually his intention could be to contribute the patches *to* snowglobe
> in which case it's not a new TPV and a very reasonable example of
> cooperation with a company sponsored open source project.
>
> That's actually very likely his intention since the patches *ARE*
> SNOW-375 and not MY_TPV-375 or somesuch.
>
> Mike
>
> On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 17:41 +, Morgaine wrote:
>   
>> 
>
>
>
>   

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Re: [opensource-dev] SNOW-375 Binary Package Available

[Morgaine]

While that may be his intention, you can't make a new Snowglobe by placing a
patch in Jira, applying the patch to Snowglobe sources, and then
distributing the resulting viewer as if it were a new version of Snowglobe,
exempt from being a TPV.

If that were possible then everyone would do likewise with their own patches
in order not to be caught by the TPV policy.

So until SNOW-375 is committed into Snowglobe, Dzon is releasing a new
viewer that is not Snowglobe, and it's clearly a TPV so it needs a name,
which is why I asked what that name was.

I expect that Linden Lab would not take kindly to such TPV clients derived
from Snowglobe being called "Snowglobe-XXX" as a way of bypassing the TPV
policy.  Perhaps Merov could comment.


Morgaine.





=

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Michael Dickson  wrote:

> Actually his intention could be to contribute the patches *to* snowglobe
> in which case it's not a new TPV and a very reasonable example of
> cooperation with a company sponsored open source project.
>
> That's actually very likely his intention since the patches *ARE*
> SNOW-375 and not MY_TPV-375 or somesuch.
>
> Mike
>
> On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 17:41 +, Morgaine wrote:
> > Nope, client-side scripting and an HTTP/REST server are not in
> > Snowglobe.  Your patch SNOW-375 when applied to Snowglobe sources
> > created a derived work from Snowglobe.  The derived viewer is clearly
> > a TPV.
> >
> > This is why I am asking you what this new TPV is called, since it is
> > not Snowglobe but only based on it.
> >
> >
> > Morgaine.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ===
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Dzonatas Sol 
> > wrote:
> > Has client-side scripting and an HTTP/REST server been offered
> > in Snowglobe before patch SNOW-375? I'm not sure how you are
> > able to determine such features as "derived" from Snowglobe.
> >
> >
> > The SNOW-375 patch
> > Morgaine wrote:
> > That sounds pretty interesting, Dzonatas.
> >
> > What is your viewer called, this TPV derived from
> > Snowglobe with an extra patch?
> >
> >
> > Morgaine.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Dzonatas Sol
> > mailto:dzona...@gmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >This is a build of Snowglobe with SNOW-375 patch
> > applied. This patch
> >provides a HTTP/REST interface to control and
> > automate the Snowglobe
> >viewer. Client-side scripts and programs can then
> > add features like
> >accessibility functions, automated regression
> > tests, detached editors,
> >separate chat windows, inventory organizers, and
> > more.
> >
> >Linux:
> >
> >
> http://mono.dzonux.net/file/Snowglobe375/Snowglobe-i686-1.4-375.tar.bz2
> >
> >  <
> http://viewerdirectory.secondlife.com/listing/download/137/3/binary/aHR0cDovL21vbm8uZHpvbnV4Lm5ldC9maWxlL1Nub3dnbG9iZTM3NS9Tbm93Z2xvYmUtaTY4Ni0xLjQtMzc1LnRhci5iejI%3D
> >
> >
> >Source:
> > http://gitweb.dzonux.net/?p=snowglobe-1.4-375.git
> >
> >  <
> http://viewerdirectory.secondlife.com/listing/download/137/3/source/aHR0cDovL2dpdHdlYi5kem9udXgubmV0Lz9wPXNub3dnbG9iZS0xLjQtMzc1LmdpdA%3D%3D
> >
> >
> >See Also:
> > https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-375
> >
> >
> >
> >You can experience how such an HTTP/REST interface
> > performs with
> >Icesphere, which was the project formerly known as
> > MonoVida Studio and
> >MonoVida Communicator.Icesphere interfaces with
> > Snowglobe-375 to
> >present
> >detached communications and client-side scripting
> > via C#/Mono/.NET.
> >
> >
> >
> http://mono.dzonux.net/file/Snowglobe375/communicator.zip
> >
> >Note: name change not due to pun on grid monkeys =)
> >
> >
> >___
> >Policies and (un)subscribe information available
> > here:
> >http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> >Please read the policies before posting to keep
> > unmoderated
> >posting privileges
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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[opensource-dev] SNOW-375 Binary Package Available

[Nicholaz Beresford]

+1

You made my day 


> That sounds pretty interesting, Dzonatas.
>
> What is your viewer called, this TPV derived from Snowglobe
> with an extra patch?
>
> Morgaine.






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Re: [opensource-dev] SNOW-375 Binary Package Available

[Dzonatas Sol]

Please note from the jira: "The purpose of this jira is to help further 
the process to bring the patch to release quality." At that time, it may 
be desirable to commit it to Snowglobe. Until then, the patch is offered 
for community development (not as some conspiracy theory to bypass TPV).

If you would like to vote or comment on the patch, please do so here: 
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-375

Morgaine, can you keep this thread to discussion about "SNOW-375". Joe 
Linden already made a specific request (in AWG chat) in response to TPV 
clarification, so if you have issues with the TPV then this thread is 
not the place to fulfill his request.

Morgaine wrote:
> While that may be his intention, you can't make a new Snowglobe by 
> placing a patch in Jira, applying the patch to Snowglobe sources, and 
> then distributing the resulting viewer as if it were a new version of 
> Snowglobe, exempt from being a TPV.
>
> If that were possible then everyone would do likewise with their own 
> patches in order not to be caught by the TPV policy.
>
> So until SNOW-375 is committed into Snowglobe, Dzon is releasing a new 
> viewer that is not Snowglobe, and it's clearly a TPV so it needs a 
> name, which is why I asked what that name was.
>
> I expect that Linden Lab would not take kindly to such TPV clients 
> derived from Snowglobe being called "Snowglobe-XXX" as a way of 
> bypassing the TPV policy.� Perhaps Merov could comment.
>
>
> Morgaine.
>
>
>
>
>
> =
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Michael Dickson  > wrote:
>
> Actually his intention could be to contribute the patches *to*
> snowglobe
> in which case it's not a new TPV and a very reasonable example of
> cooperation with a company sponsored open source project.
>
> That's actually very likely his intention since the patches *ARE*
> SNOW-375 and not MY_TPV-375 or somesuch.
>
> Mike
>
> On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 17:41 +, Morgaine wrote:
> > Nope, client-side scripting and an HTTP/REST server are not in
> > Snowglobe. �Your patch SNOW-375 when applied to Snowglobe sources
> > created a derived work from Snowglobe. �The derived viewer is
> clearly
> > a TPV.
> >
> > This is why I am asking you what this new TPV is called, since it is
> > not Snowglobe but only based on it.
> >
> >
> > Morgaine.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ===
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Dzonatas Sol  >
> > wrote:
> > � � � � Has client-side scripting and an HTTP/REST server been
> offered
> > � � � � in Snowglobe before patch SNOW-375? I'm not sure how you are
> > � � � � able to determine such features as "derived" from Snowglobe.
> >
> >
> > � � � � The SNOW-375 patch
> > � � � � Morgaine wrote:
> > � � � � � � � � That sounds pretty interesting, Dzonatas.
> >
> > � � � � � � � � What is your viewer called, this TPV derived from
> > � � � � � � � � Snowglobe with an extra patch?
> >
> >
> > � � � � � � � � Morgaine.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > � � � � � � � � =
> >
> >
> > � � � � � � � � On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Dzonatas Sol
> > � � � � � � � � mailto:dzona...@gmail.com>
> >>
> > � � � � � � � � wrote:
> >
> > � � � � � � � � � �This is a build of Snowglobe with SNOW-375 patch
> > � � � � � � � � applied. This patch
> > � � � � � � � � � �provides a HTTP/REST interface to control and
> > � � � � � � � � automate the Snowglobe
> > � � � � � � � � � �viewer. Client-side scripts and programs can then
> > � � � � � � � � add features like
> > � � � � � � � � � �accessibility functions, automated regression
> > � � � � � � � � tests, detached editors,
> > � � � � � � � � � �separate chat windows, inventory organizers, and
> > � � � � � � � � more.
> >
> > � � � � � � � � � �Linux:
> >
> > � � � � � � � �
> �http://mono.dzonux.net/file/Snowglobe375/Snowglobe-i686-1.4-375.tar.bz2
> >
> > � � � � � � � �
> 
> �
> >
> > � � � � � � � � � �Source:
> > � � � � � � � � http://gitweb.dzonux.net/?p=snowglobe-1.4-375.git
> >
> > � � � � � � � �
> 
> �
> >
> > � � � � � � � � � �See Also:
> > � � � � � � � � https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-375
> >
> > � � � � � � � � � �
> >
> > � � � � � � � � � �You can experienc

[opensource-dev] question on settings for the 2.0 built-in browser

[Robert Martin]

Some of the noise surrounding 2.0 concerns the lack of adblocking and
other privacy enhancing things that can be used with the browser.
so if somebody could point me to the answers for the following
questions that would be "spiffy"

1 the BiB is htmlkit/safari correct?
2 how could a person install plugins to the BiB?
3 is there a way to use a proxy with the BiB

-- 
Robert L Martin
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Re: [opensource-dev] question on settings for the 2.0 built-in browser

[Brent Tubbs]

1 - I'm not 100% sure but I believe that the built in browser in 2.0 uses
QtWebKit.
2 - Plugins would be handled at a higher level than just the webkit engine
and there isn't currently a way to create or install them.  I've never heard
of a generic "webkit" plugin.  They're specific to your browser, such as
Chrome or Safari.
3 - No idea.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Robert Martin  wrote:

> Some of the noise surrounding 2.0 concerns the lack of adblocking and
> other privacy enhancing things that can be used with the browser.
> so if somebody could point me to the answers for the following
> questions that would be "spiffy"
>
> 1 the BiB is htmlkit/safari correct?
> 2 how could a person install plugins to the BiB?
> 3 is there a way to use a proxy with the BiB
>
> --
> Robert L Martin
> ___
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Re: [opensource-dev] question on settings for the 2.0 built-in browser

[Tayra Dagostino]

On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 15:52:21 -0400
Robert Martin  wrote:

> 1 the BiB is htmlkit/safari correct?

webkit

> 2 how could a person install plugins to the BiB?

not so sure... but try to create a php file ad hoc and see it inside
viewer browser, so u can see where is default plugin directory (never
tried)

> 3 is there a way to use a proxy with the BiB

should inherit from viewer setting... (*should*)
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[opensource-dev] Login response request/processing in 1.23 vs Snowglobe / 2.0

[Kitty]

*waves*

What changed in the login response request/processing code from 1.23 ->
Snowglobe -> 2.0?

I've been trying to figure out why I can connect to the beta grid, but not
the main grid half the time with Snowglobe / 2.0, but can effortlessly with
1.23.

Alt logs on fine to both grids under any combination of viewer.

As best I can determine it's the time between authentication and finish
receiving the folder structure etc login response dump that's causing the
issues (alt has a much smaller inventory and beta grid has a much higher
transfer rate than the main grid)...

Main avie, main grid, v2.0:
2010-04-05T20:19:56Z INFO: Poller::Poller: login_to_simulator request sent
to https://login.agni.lindenlab.com/cgi-bin/login.cgi
2010-04-05T20:22:17Z INFO: LLXMLRPCTransaction::transferRate: Buffer size:
2235778 B
2010-04-05T20:22:17Z INFO: LLXMLRPCTransaction::transferRate: Transfer rate:
127.272 Kb/s
2010-04-05T20:22:17Z INFO: Poller::poll: login_to_simulator result from
https://login.agni.lindenlab.com/cgi-bin/login.cgi: status Complete,
errorcode OK ((done))

About 137 seconds, login halts on "Connecting to region" (sim has given up
waiting I'd guess)

Main avie, main grid, v1.23:
2010-04-05T20:31:33Z INFO: LLUserAuth::authenticate:
LLUserAuth::authenticate:
uri=https://login.agni.lindenlab.com/cgi-bin/login.cgi
2010-04-05T20:31:33Z INFO: LLStartUp::setStartupState: Startup state
changing from STATE_LOGIN_AUTHENTICATE to STATE_LOGIN_NO_DATA_YET
2010-04-05T20:31:41Z INFO: LLStartUp::setStartupState: Startup state
changing from STATE_LOGIN_NO_DATA_YET to STATE_LOGIN_DOWNLOADING
2010-04-05T20:31:56Z INFO: LLXMLRPCTransaction::transferRate: Buffer size:
2235778 B
2010-04-05T20:31:56Z INFO: LLXMLRPCTransaction::transferRate: Transfer rate:
106.384 Kb/s
2010-04-05T20:31:56Z INFO: LLUserAuth::authResponse: Processed response: 0

About 23 seconds, normal login.

So I'm wondering what changed to that bit of code to cause such a wide
difference in download speed? *confuzzled*

(Actually on a hunch I peeked at the forums and the above problem would seem
to fit quite a few of the stalls at "Connecting to region" that some people
are experiencing/reporting. In the cases where there are no logs posted
there's a report that logging on with 1.23 will always succeed and when
there is a log posted there's the same exceptionally long time for
downloading the login response dump)

Kitty

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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe 2.0 sync with Viewer 2.0

[Philippe (Merov) Bossut]

Hi all,

Yes, there were a bunch of missed added files and other issues that actually
made the repository not complete, and therefore, not buildable. I did a
serie of commits today to fix that. I've been able to build on Mac and
Windows at least.

Now, I'm still working on fixing the opensrc-build.sh script which is used
to produced the binaries. I hope to get build to pass on Parabuild for Mac
and Windows shortly.

Thanks for your patience.

Cheers,
- Merov
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Re: [opensource-dev] PulseAudio requirement in windows question; Technical issue squeezed between legal noise.

[Philippe (Merov) Bossut]

Hi,

On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Tayra Dagostino
wrote:

> On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 06:49:56 -0700 (PDT)
> Nicky Perian  wrote:
>
> > Same issue as Latif.
> >
> > On windows it fails with:
> >
> > CMake Error at media_plugins/webkit/CMakeLists.txt:17 (include):
> >   include could not find load file:
> >
> > PulseAudio
>
> This is fixed with svn rev 3304. PulseAudio.cmake was missing from the
indra/cmake folder.

- Merov
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Re: [opensource-dev] SNOW-375 Binary Package Available

[Morgaine]

Dzonatas, I still want to know what your TPV is called, to assist our
discussion.

You are distributing a TPV made by patching Snowglobe sources with the
SNOW-375 patch.  The archive you are distributing unpacks as
"Snowglobe-i686-1.4.0.0", but I rather doubt that you have permission to be
distributing a viewer by that name.

Seeing as Lindens have stopped even the word "Life" being used in viewer
names, it seems probable that they will stop the word "Snowglobe" being used
by others as well.  We need to know.

But we won't know until Merov or some other Linden tells us.


Morgaine.





==

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Dzonatas Sol  wrote:

> Please note from the jira: "The purpose of this jira is to help further the
> process to bring the patch to release quality." At that time, it may be
> desirable to commit it to Snowglobe. Until then, the patch is offered for
> community development (not as some conspiracy theory to bypass TPV).
>
> If you would like to vote or comment on the patch, please do so here:
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-375
>
> Morgaine, can you keep this thread to discussion about "SNOW-375". Joe
> Linden already made a specific request (in AWG chat) in response to TPV
> clarification, so if you have issues with the TPV then this thread is not
> the place to fulfill his request.
>
> Morgaine wrote:
>
>> While that may be his intention, you can't make a new Snowglobe by placing
>> a patch in Jira, applying the patch to Snowglobe sources, and then
>> distributing the resulting viewer as if it were a new version of Snowglobe,
>> exempt from being a TPV.
>>
>> If that were possible then everyone would do likewise with their own
>> patches in order not to be caught by the TPV policy.
>>
>> So until SNOW-375 is committed into Snowglobe, Dzon is releasing a new
>> viewer that is not Snowglobe, and it's clearly a TPV so it needs a name,
>> which is why I asked what that name was.
>>
>> I expect that Linden Lab would not take kindly to such TPV clients derived
>> from Snowglobe being called "Snowglobe-XXX" as a way of bypassing the TPV
>> policy.� Perhaps Merov could comment.
>>
>>
>> Morgaine.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Michael Dickson > mike.dick...@hp.com>> wrote:
>>
>>Actually his intention could be to contribute the patches *to*
>>snowglobe
>>in which case it's not a new TPV and a very reasonable example of
>>cooperation with a company sponsored open source project.
>>
>>That's actually very likely his intention since the patches *ARE*
>>SNOW-375 and not MY_TPV-375 or somesuch.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 17:41 +, Morgaine wrote:
>>> Nope, client-side scripting and an HTTP/REST server are not in
>>> Snowglobe. �Your patch SNOW-375 when applied to Snowglobe sources
>>> created a derived work from Snowglobe. �The derived viewer is
>>clearly
>>> a TPV.
>>>
>>> This is why I am asking you what this new TPV is called, since it is
>>> not Snowglobe but only based on it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Morgaine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ===
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Dzonatas Sol >>
>>> wrote:
>>> � � � � Has client-side scripting and an HTTP/REST server been
>>
>>offered
>>> � � � � in Snowglobe before patch SNOW-375? I'm not sure how you are
>>> � � � � able to determine such features as "derived" from Snowglobe.
>>>
>>>
>>> � � � � The SNOW-375 patch
>>> � � � � Morgaine wrote:
>>> � � � � � � � � That sounds pretty interesting, Dzonatas.
>>>
>>> � � � � � � � � What is your viewer called, this TPV derived from
>>> � � � � � � � � Snowglobe with an extra patch?
>>>
>>>
>>> � � � � � � � � Morgaine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> � � � � � � � � =
>>>
>>>
>>> � � � � � � � � On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Dzonatas Sol
>>> � � � � � � � � mailto:dzona...@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>
>>> � � � � � � � � wrote:
>>>
>>> � � � � � � � � � �This is a build of Snowglobe with SNOW-375 patch
>>> � � � � � � � � applied. This patch
>>> � � � � � � � � � �provides a HTTP/REST interface to control and
>>> � � � � � � � � automate the Snowglobe
>>> � � � � � � � � � �viewer. Client-side scripts and programs can then
>>> � � � � � � � � add features like
>>> � � � � � � � � � �accessibility functions, automated regression
>>> � � � � � � � � tests, detached editors,
>>> � � � � � � � � � �separate chat windows, inventory organizers, and
>>> � � � � � � � � more.
>>>
>>> � � � � � � � � � �Linux:
>>>
>>> � � � � � � � �
>>�
>> http://mono.dzonux.net/file/Snowglobe375/Snowglobe-i686-1.4-3

Re: [opensource-dev] SNOW-375 Binary Package Available

[Philippe (Merov) Bossut]

Hi,

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Morgaine wrote:

> While that may be his intention, you can't make a new Snowglobe by placing
> a patch in Jira, applying the patch to Snowglobe sources, and then
> distributing the resulting viewer as if it were a new version of Snowglobe,
> exempt from being a TPV.
>
> If that were possible then everyone would do likewise with their own
> patches in order not to be caught by the TPV policy.
>
> So until SNOW-375 is committed into Snowglobe, Dzon is releasing a new
> viewer that is not Snowglobe, and it's clearly a TPV so it needs a name,
> which is why I asked what that name was.
>
> I expect that Linden Lab would not take kindly to such TPV clients derived
> from Snowglobe being called "Snowglobe-XXX" as a way of bypassing the TPV
> policy.  Perhaps Merov could comment.
>
>
I'll try to answer that case to the best of my understanding:

- Commit of SNOW-375 in Snowglobe: This is a big patch and, since we don't
have a CLA for Dzonatas on file, it can't be integrated as long as that's
not cleared. Note that, to the best of my knowledge, such CLA are asked for
contributions to most FLOSS projects. In the meantime, anyone can certainly
apply Dzon's patch and build a viewer. As long as you do it for yourself,
there's no problem with this.

- Distributing Binaries: That indeed creates a TPV and TPV Policy will apply
if the viewer plans to connect to the SL grid and be listed in the viewer
directory.

- Snowglobe Trademark: This is still an on going issue. In
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-153, Robla added the following
comment:
"""
We still plan to protect this logo under trademark law. We haven't announced
a specific policy around this, but we're looking at the Fedora and Firefox
logos for examples of the tradeoffs. We don't want to have is someone
offering a trojan-horse laden viewer under the Snowglobe name bearing this
logo, and we want to make sure we've got the legal right to stop that
activity.
"""
I don't have details on where we stand legally on the trademark application
right now. In the meantime, using "Snowglobe-XXX" is unlikely to raise
issues. Using something really different though is likely safer. Which
brings us to...

- Easy Packaging of TPV : This is actually the objective of the proposed
"BINDIST --- easy way to produce legally distributable binary packages"
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-495 : I've been working on this in
the background and plan to get something together shortly. I already
identified all applicable patches so I'm not too far off producing a script
doing this.

Cheers,
- Merov
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Re: [opensource-dev] SNOW-375 Binary Package Available

[Dzonatas Sol]

Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote:
>
> - Commit of SNOW-375 in Snowglobe: This is a big patch and, since we 
> don't have a CLA for Dzonatas on file, it can't be integrated as long 
> as that's not cleared. Note that, to the best of my knowledge, such 
> CLA are asked for contributions to most FLOSS projects. In the 
> meantime,�anyone can certainly apply Dzon's patch and build a viewer. 
> As long as you do it for yourself, there's no problem with this.


When SNOW-375 reaches more of a 1.0 version of the patch (and probably 
updated for SG2.0), then we'll work on the C.A. Until then, I would like 
to see the patch standardized more before others start to rely on such 
REST resources -- less hassle. I've collected wide-range various input, 
so far.
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Re: [opensource-dev] SNOW-375 Binary Package Available

[Morgaine]

Thanks Merov!  That cleared up a lot of confusion.

Could you please check the word "*and*" in your following paragraph?

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 5:56 AM, Philippe (Merov) Bossut  wrote:

>
> - Distributing Binaries: That indeed creates a TPV and TPV Policy will
> apply if the viewer plans to connect to the SL grid *and* be listed in the
> viewer directory.
>
>
The TPV doc says that it applies to all third party clients that connect to
SL, whether or not they are listed in the TPV directory.  Your word "*and*"
(if used as programmers use it) would mean that both conditions need to be
true, which is probably not what you meant.

If both conditions need to be true then any viewer not listed in the
directory would be exempt from the TPV, which I believe was not your
intention.  (The word "plan" is also not used in the TPV.)

A small clarification of that would be very useful, since it would have a
major impact.


Morgaine.







=

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 5:56 AM, Philippe (Merov) Bossut  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Morgaine 
> wrote:
>
>> While that may be his intention, you can't make a new Snowglobe by placing
>> a patch in Jira, applying the patch to Snowglobe sources, and then
>> distributing the resulting viewer as if it were a new version of Snowglobe,
>> exempt from being a TPV.
>>
>> If that were possible then everyone would do likewise with their own
>> patches in order not to be caught by the TPV policy.
>>
>> So until SNOW-375 is committed into Snowglobe, Dzon is releasing a new
>> viewer that is not Snowglobe, and it's clearly a TPV so it needs a name,
>> which is why I asked what that name was.
>>
>> I expect that Linden Lab would not take kindly to such TPV clients derived
>> from Snowglobe being called "Snowglobe-XXX" as a way of bypassing the TPV
>> policy.  Perhaps Merov could comment.
>>
>>
> I'll try to answer that case to the best of my understanding:
>
> - Commit of SNOW-375 in Snowglobe: This is a big patch and, since we don't
> have a CLA for Dzonatas on file, it can't be integrated as long as that's
> not cleared. Note that, to the best of my knowledge, such CLA are asked for
> contributions to most FLOSS projects. In the meantime, anyone can certainly
> apply Dzon's patch and build a viewer. As long as you do it for yourself,
> there's no problem with this.
>
> - Distributing Binaries: That indeed creates a TPV and TPV Policy will
> apply if the viewer plans to connect to the SL grid and be listed in the
> viewer directory.
>
> - Snowglobe Trademark: This is still an on going issue. In
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-153, Robla added the following
> comment:
> """
> We still plan to protect this logo under trademark law. We haven't
> announced a specific policy around this, but we're looking at the Fedora and
> Firefox logos for examples of the tradeoffs. We don't want to have is
> someone offering a trojan-horse laden viewer under the Snowglobe name
> bearing this logo, and we want to make sure we've got the legal right to
> stop that activity.
> """
> I don't have details on where we stand legally on the trademark application
> right now. In the meantime, using "Snowglobe-XXX" is unlikely to raise
> issues. Using something really different though is likely safer. Which
> brings us to...
>
> - Easy Packaging of TPV : This is actually the objective of the proposed
> "BINDIST --- easy way to produce legally distributable binary packages"
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-495 : I've been working on this in
> the background and plan to get something together shortly. I already
> identified all applicable patches so I'm not too far off producing a script
> doing this.
>
> Cheers,
> - Merov
>
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