[Mailman-Users] Most "secure" settings

[Steven Clift]

Assuming that encrypted e-mail is a red "watch me" flag in countries which
limit political freedoms, what would be the best settings for an e-mail list
to protect the participants from retribution?

My initial thoughts:

1. Private list, invite-only.
2. No archive.
3. Replace From: Name/e-mail with group address - can you do that?
4. Add some disclaimers about best use of the forum, like use of names,
speaking in code for censored words, etc.

What would you add? 

Can the list act as an anonymizer of sorts so that only the message body of
posts are sent out and all the header stuff stripped out?

Is there a good way to tell if the list is being blocked or filtered by a
countries firewalls?

I am most worried about someone's computer or webmail account being
compromised with the e-mail in-box leading back to people.

Thanks,
S Clift
Web:  http://publicus.net


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[Mailman-Users] Feature comparison chart?

[Steven Clift]

Does anyone know of a feature comparison chart that compares Mailman to
tools like:

Sympa (open source)
GroupServer (open source, zope-based)
Listserv (commercial)
YahooGroups (ad supported)
GoogleGroups (ad supported)


Thanks,
Steven Clift

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Steven Clift - [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

   Web:  http://publicus.net
  Blog:  http://dowire.org/notes
   NGO:  http://e-democracy.org 

Replies to slc@ may be missed.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


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[Mailman-Users] Reducing false positives with spam markings with Gmail, etc.

[Steven Clift]

Has this been a growing issue with Mailman served lists?

Articles like this sort of explain to rougher territory for legit
email generators:
http://bit.ly/1hhDQo6

We actually use the open source GroupServer.org package (a cousin to
Mailman) and if this is a growing problem, we need some sort of
defense network. If it is not a growing problem with Mailman lists,
then what are you doing right!?

(One factor for us is that we do have a lot of users who post via the
web interface, which Gmail doesn't seem to like.)

Thanks,
Steven Clift
E-Democracy.org
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Reducing false positives with spam markings with Gmail, etc.

[Steven Clift]

Thanks Stephen.

Are most mailman hosts finding their mail in Gmail heading to the
"Promotions" tab or "Forums" optional tab?

Steven Clift

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 1:04 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull  wrote:
> Steven Clift writes:
>
>  > Has this been a growing issue with Mailman served lists?
>
> I wouldn't say it's growing.  For quite a while (a decade or so) we
> have been getting the occasional request for help in getting mail
> delivered to the major freemail services and portals, including Gmail,
> Yahoo!, Hotmail, and AOL.  I haven't noticed them getting more
> frequent over time, nor have I had problems delivering to them with my
> own lists (but I have a really easy set of users to service, most are
> admins or oldtimers themselves and tend to blame their freemail
> provider, not my lists).
>
>  > If it is not a growing problem with Mailman lists, then what are
>  > you doing right!?
>
> Hard to say.  For one thing, Mailman tries very hard to conform to the
> relevant RFCs (specifically 5322, 2369, and 2919).
>
> Second, most Mailman lists are set up by professionals, either people
> who are quite familiar with mail service including the kinds of things
> that keep you from getting labeled as spam, or hosting services.  Not
> all of them are completely competent, but most do a pretty good job.
> Most implement DKIM and/or SPF, for example.  So there may be a
> growing problem, and we just don't hear about it -- the host managers
> are dealing with it themselves.
>
> Third, we do have a pretty good FAQ on how to communicate with the big
> services to get on their good side.  It's tedious to follow their
> rules, but it does work most of the time.
>
>  > (One factor for us is that we do have a lot of users who post via
>  > the web interface, which Gmail doesn't seem to like.)
>
> That doesn't surprise me.  I assume that the from address is
> "web.u...@home.org" as they are registered with your service.  If your
> software is not emitting a correct Sender header, it will look like
> the From address is spoofed.  Gmail won't like that.  Make sure that
> in this case the Sender header is set appropriately.  (Mailman doesn't
> have a web interface, so doesn't have experience with this itself.
> The most common third-party interface is Gmane, which does get the
> headers right.  Not everybody appreciates Gmane -- they have a habit
> of mirroring lists whose owners don't want them mirrored -- but they
> do conform to the mail standards.)
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Steve
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Re: [Mailman-Users] What would your dream Mailman web interface look like?

[Steven Clift]

As someone who raised this issue 15 years ago and was seriously
rebuffed with lots of notes that said essentially "this is a mailing
list and not a web forum" I then started looking elsewhere.

Anyway, my NGO has put a lot into our web interface for our primarily
email based set of neighborhood forums built on GPL GroupServer:

   http://forums.e-democracy.org

Kick the tires and "steal" as much as you can for Mailman.

I'd check out what other mail-centric platforms have also developed like:
http://wordsandwriting.github.io/lumen/
http://DGroups.org
https://www.sympa.org/


Personally, it would be great to see all these "open source" mailing
list projects work together ... despite the different code bases. Our
members increasingly expect Facebook Groups like experiences and
discovery of new groups to join, etc. ... and I don't see how we
attract the next generation of users without upgrading our web-based
design and engagement (why still preserving full email participation).

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Dave Stevens  wrote:
> Quoting Bill Cole :
>
>> On 6 Apr 2015, at 20:02, Andrew Stuart wrote:
>>
>>> Sounds like not working with JavaScript is something important to you.
>>> What’s the thinking behind wanting to work without JavaScript?  Isn’t it
>>> kinda hard to navigate the modern web without JavaScript?
>>
>>
>> I don't know the original poster's motivations, but for me it is entirely
>> practical. I work in a diverse variety of environments administering a
>> complex menagerie of systems and Mailman is just one small piece of that. I
>> frequently don't have a convenient modern GUI browser configured to my
>> tastes/paranoias running on a network I trust, and it is actually more
>> convenient for me to use a text browser with weak or no JS support (yes,
>> really.) It is also an issue for user support, since users do work with the
>> MM web interface from time to time. JS is an area where interop between
>> browsers and the diverse ways users tweak them is at its worst. Supporting
>> users who have found new ways for the MM web interface to not work because
>> of JS subtleties sounds like at least the 6th ring of Hell. Also, sticking
>> with a pure HTML client interface makes it easier to validate its security,
>> e.g. a site with no scripts has no XSS vulnerabilities. MM isn't the sort of
>> web application that one spends hours at a time using, so the slicker
>> operation you can get from a JS-heavy system isn't really very valuable.
>>
>> Short version: a tool like the MM web interface should minimize the
>> possible failure modes even if that means sacrificing some fluidity of use.
>
>
> +1
>
> D
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
> "As long as politics is the shadow cast on society by big business,
> the attenuation of the shadow will not change the substance."
>
> -- John Dewey
>
>
>
>
>
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[Mailman-Users] Is Yahoo.com bouncing your lists?

[Steven Clift]

While we use GroupServer.org, I've found that when you had DMARC, etc.
issues with AOL, we did too.

Yahoo is bouncing hundreds of our members. How about you?

Steve
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[Mailman-Users] Examples of custom themes for HyperKitty?

[Steven Clift]

Hey all, I am looking for examples where folks have further adapted their
HyperKitty archives to engage users looking for more of a social
network/blog like experience.

Suggestions?

I am looking for examples that essentially feature the original post in
full and then present expandable replies below like comments.

Thanks,
Steve
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[Mailman-Users] API/App based access to Mailman/Archives

[Steven Clift]

Is it technically possible to interact via an API from a simple mobile app
with different Mailman servers?

My thought is something simple that could in theory be expanded into an app
that interfaces with your groups and public groups on Mailman, BuddyPress,
Discourse and other open source hosted online groups. You'd paste in the
URLs of your online groups/list sites in some way.

Like the olden days of news groups and the experience of an RSS reader, you
could quickly scan the number of new posts over X time or since you last
opened the app and then dip into the groups of interest and if you can
authenticate yourself, post on lists/groups where you are a member.

Thoughts?

I am evaluating whether in the age of Facebook Groups, NextDoor, and mobile
apps if an open source/non-commercial path to viable online neighborhood
groups with mass participation is possible. We have a bunch of online
groups to move from GroupServer for E-Democracy.org.

Thanks,
Steven Clift

P.S. I see that this is out there for Discourse:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.discourse
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[Mailman-Users] Re: API/App based access to Mailman/Archives

[Steven Clift]

Thanks Stephen. Thanks Mark.

Where is the best place to see the HyperKitty development priorities list?

Per my other note, I am definitely interested in how we can tap experience
with presenting the UI/UX to people under 40 who have never been on a
mailing list.

In our use case with city politics and neighborhood online groups, the
online groups/lists will all die out leaving older email-centric residents
isolated if we don't engage younger residents to feel a bit more
comfortable with the web or app based group experience.

Thanks,
Steven Clift


On Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:21 AM Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 2/17/21 12:54 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> >
> > However, there is no API for getting message data from HyperKitty.
>
>
> Not true. See, e.g., <https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/api/>.
>
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> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] Re: API/App based access to Mailman/Archives

[Steven Clift]

Thank Steve, what is the best link for 2021 GSoC?

I can't quite find it.
https://wiki.list.org/DEV/Home?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=summer+of+code&titlesearch=Titles

My NGO, E-Democracy.org has lots of experience with crossing that web
forum/email divide. Now that Zope-based GroupServer.org is coming to end of
it's useful life (we don't own it but did fund features), we'd love an
opportunity to share what we've learned and some ideas.

(We used Mailman in the Pipermail-only era, and before that
YahooGroups/eGroups and ListProc and even Majordomo when we launched in
1994. We also have experience with Google Groups and Listserv.)

To be honest, with competitive online groups seeking to reach everyday mass
online users, the divide now is more a social media look and feel versus
email divide with web forum expectations. My view is that email
discussions, web forum topics, blog posts, social media posts are all
essentially the same structure - an original topic post that generates
replies/comments ... and that there is nothing wrong with presenting that
information based on user expectations with options to change the view
style to their comfort.

I've stuck with email centric options at the core because they grab
attention and create group bonds that destination social media groups/web
forums don't when the frame is geographic common interest instead of
pre-existing special/niche interest. But we've experienced a huge
generational decline in under 40 members with app expectations (NextDoor)
and Facebook Groups post look and feel expectations.

We care about independent local community spaces online and it's worth
having an alternative!

Please guide us on how to be most useful in sharing some specific ideas
into the Summer of Code.

Thanks,
Steve





On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 12:31 AM Stephen J. Turnbull <
turnbull.stephen...@u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:

> Mark Sapiro writes:
>
>  > The list is at , but it
>  > isn't prioritized. If what you want isn't there, you can file additional
>  > issues.
>
> After 2/19 19:00 UTC you can also look at the Mailman Wiki for the
> Google Summer of Code (GSoC) 2021 ideas list.  This is biased in two
> ways, first, not all good ideas are of the right scope and content for
> GSoC, and second it will be based on what I personally think is
> appropriate.
>
> You (and enybody else) are welcome to suggest new ideas based on your
> needs.  The bar is low in the sense that our priorities are actually
> are not very well defined.  We generally throw a bunch of spaghetti at
> the applicants and see what sticks to the ones we judge competent. :-)
>
> Steve
>
>
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