[Mailman-Users] Start mailman on bootup?

[Richard]

Ok, this seems like a really simple one :) How do I get mailman to
start at boot time?

/home/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start

in rc.local ? Don't see it as a service anywhere and the documentation
doesn't seem to address this issue. 


Cheers 
Richard 





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[Mailman-Users] No domain

[Richard]

Hi to all,

I just installed Mailman, but I get a very strange error. Any time I add 
a new list, Mailman connects with my MTA, but, let's say the list is 
named test, the connecting user is "test-admin@", without any domain. Is 
there any configuration file where the mailing list domain should be 
specified?

Thanks in advance,

Richard.



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[Mailman-Users] Web Site requests

[Richard]

PLEASE!! list the current version number on the main page somewhere.
Also, please post the change log somewhere obvious on the web site.

These two quite small things would save many of us hours of work and
many megabytes of downloads.




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[Mailman-Users] List-Admin

[richard]

Hi All!

I'm new to this list. I have created a couple test lists and find the 
list-admin address seems to be a black hole. In other words, if my list 
is called 'testlist', mail sent to the address testlist-admin does not 
seem to go anywhere. The address testlist-owner works fine, but the 
admin address mail seems to be lost. I guess it should be delivered to 
myself just as the testlist-owner does.

Could someone clarify this for me?

Thanks,

Richard


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Re: [Mailman-Users] List-Admin

[richard]

Hi Lloyd,

Thanks for your reply. I have one more question regarding your answer. 
I see the second item in the General Options, is, as you said, list 
administrators. Also the link for that section says 'Details of owner'. 
I take it that list admin and list owner are actually the same 
address(es). Is this correct?

Thanks very much for your help.

Richard

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:37:48 -0700, you wrote:
>
> The list admin is the email address that is entered under General Options, the 
> second selection:
>
> "The list administrator email addresses. Multiple administrator addresses, each on 
> separate line is okay."
>
> - Original Message ---
> >Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Received: from spf8.us4.outblaze.com (205.158.62.35) by mta2.wss.scd.yahoo.com 
> >(7.0.016)
> >id 40723FCD005456B9 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:21:34 -0700
> >Received: from mail.python.org (mail.python.org [12.155.117.29])
> > by spf8.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95EE07C71E
> > for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:21:34 + (GMT)
> >Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=mail.python.org)
> > by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22)
> > id 1BECN6-00045P-Md; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:18:00 -0400
> >Received: from adsl-64-91-63-105.rb3.ka.centurytel.net ([64.91.63.105]
> > helo=quicksilvermail.net) by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22)
> > id 1BECN2-00044g-7d
> > for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:17:56 -0400
> >Received: from quicksilverstore.com (quicksilvermail.net [64.91.63.105])
> > by quicksilvermail.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id i3FJHqiW001288
> > for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:17:53 -0700
> >Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:17:52 -0700
> >Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >X-Spam-Status: OK (lists-mailman 0.000)
> >Subject: [Mailman-Users] List-Admin
> >X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5b1
> >Precedence: list
> >List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users 
> >List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users>
> >List-Post: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >List-Help: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >List-Subscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >Hi All!
> >
> >I'm new to this list. I have created a couple test lists and find the
> >list-admin address seems to be a black hole. In other words, if my list
> >is called 'testlist', mail sent to the address testlist-admin does not
> >seem to go anywhere. The address testlist-owner works fine, but the
> >admin address mail seems to be lost. I guess it should be delivered to
> >myself just as the testlist-owner does.
> >
> >Could someone clarify this for me?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Richard
> >
> >
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> >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
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Richard


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[Mailman-Users] Re: List-Admin

[richard]

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:50:04 -0500, you wrote:
>
> On 05:30 PM 4/15/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >I'm new to this list. I have created a couple test lists and find the
> >list-admin address seems to be a black hole. In other words, if my list
> >is called 'testlist', mail sent to the address testlist-admin does not
> >seem to go anywhere. The address testlist-owner works fine, but the
> >admin address mail seems to be lost.
>
>   listname-admin is not defined.  If you have reason to use it you
> could add it to the aliases.  If you are looking for the admin(s) of the
> list, they are listed on the general page of the admin section.
>
> <>< Paul

Ok thanks. I wasn't sure since both listname-admin and listname-owner 
are among the aliases mailman generates when creating a new list--
except, you must be right, mail to listname-admin just disappears. I 
think I'll just alias it to listname-owner. It appears that will do no 
harm.

Thanks to you Paul and Lloyd who replied to my first question. I like 
mailman a lot! It's great having this very active list.

Regards,

Richard


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[Mailman-Users] inserting comments into list of banned members

[Richard]

 
Hi Folks - 
 
I want to create lists of accepted non-
members, rejected nonmembers, etc.  Can 
comments be inserted be or below the list?

Something like: 
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
### ceo is spam - 2004.

Show us what that might look like? 
 
Thanks,
Richard 
 
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[Mailman-Users] Re: inserting comments into list of banned members

[Richard]

 
Try this again. 
 
Mailman provides mechanisms for creating
lists of rejected nonmembers, accepted
nonmembers, etc.  Also, regular expressions
can be included within these lists.  My 
question is, can comments be included, 
either between listings, or at the bottom?
Something like: 

rejected_nonmembers
___ 
 
   ceo @ spamstersinternational.com
   ### ceo is a spammer - 2004.
   jdoe @ xxx.net 
   ### jdoe is permanently banned from the list.
   sales @ bigco.com 
   ### bigco is now owned by gigantico - 2004.
___ 

Is there a way to do this?  What would
the syntax be inside the nonmembers list? 
 
Thanks for any help.
Richard 
 
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[Mailman-Users] max_message_size

[richard]

Can anyone suggest anything? 
We are running mailman with exim and cygwin on windows sever 2003.
Problem: all messages are truncated to about 45 Kb, be it body or attachment.
In the administrative interface / general options for the list I have changed 
the field:

Maximum length in kilobytes (KB) of a message body. Use 0 for no limit.

from 0 to 5.
Problem persists. Have triple checked all I can. I cannot see the field  
max_message_size  anywhere in the mm_cfg if that's where it should be.
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[Mailman-Users] Disaster recovery: fastest / best route advice sought

[Richard]

Hello All,

It's been a long time since I've been subscribed - haven't need any help; 
things just work. But now I'm in need.


Last Saturday, nearly a week ago, we lost a disk drive on a critical 
system - runs our email lists, among other vital services - and the road 
to recovery has been a rough road. I never thought it could take so long 
to get things back online... Big Picture; tomorrow our group has a big 
gathering and we haven't been able to email our community... We need to be 
emailing each other TODAY if we can!


On the one hand we desperately need our list for group communications, but 
on the other, I'm hoping not to have to backtrack too much later for a 
better configuration. I'm looking for best options - a balance between 
wall-clock-time to configure vs the quality of the solution - please don't 
be afraid to chime in now; later won't do any good!


If I could figure out how, "the best" would be if we could put the web 
services for our email list on a new "external" Fedora Core 19 system 
already up and providing web services and put mailman on an older FC 16 
"internal-only" email system that has already taken over the email load - 
that system may be "old" but it's got a lot of horsepower. The external 
"web" system could not easily take over the email because it presently 
forwards port 25, and there aren't any ready prospects that could do it.


The only other prospect is a vastly older "backup" web server (fc14) that 
I've thought for over two years could die at any moment. There are upgrade 
plans, but they won't happen soon enough for helping here. If forced to, I 
could maybe get it to serve in this duty - the heat load might kill it. 
Or, maybe I could add a network card and get it to serve as an additional 
gateway / firewall, and thus relieve the new FC 19 system of it's 
port-forwarding duties, and thereby let it handle both the email, list and 
web duties...


Another area I could use assistance with is versions! I have no idea what 
I'm in for! I DO have good backups of the dead system; how can I tell what 
version of mailman was even running? (I captured both /var/lib/mailman and 
/usr/lib/mailman before it was completely dead - it's unreadable now.) 
Aside from these two trees, what might I have NOT captured that I might 
want to find from backup? What issues might I have in "upgrading"? What's 
my fastest / best procedure? For example, do I just create new lists and 
populate them with the list members? And what about all those archives? 
Can I just plunk them into the tree and expec them to work? (I really 
don't look forward to merging archive trees!)


Any and all advice GREATFULLY RECEIVED! And, please be gentle if I've made 
some major gaff - at least I have good backups! -smile-


With kind regards,
Richard


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Disaster recovery: fastest / best route advice sought

[Richard]

Well Gang,

I never did get mail working properly until this morning, and I'm just now 
focusing my attention back on mailman - can't worry about a mailing list 
manager when there's no competent mail services! (Note: FC19 is a bad 
choice for a server - I'll say no more about it.)


...This means we had our event and of course never had any email 
communications before it and, unfortunately, it was the worse for it...


On Fri, 20 Sep 2013, Mark Sapiro wrote:


cat /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Version.py and look at

MAJOR_REV = 2
MINOR_REV = 1
MICRO_REV = 16
REL_LEVEL = GAMMA



Thanks, Mark, I'v apparently been using 2.1.13.

I presume that, with the goal of restoring between versions, there 
aren't any significant issues with either loading into mailman.x86_64 
3:2.1.15-12.fc19, or possibly mailman-2.1.14-12.fc16.x86_64... I'm still 
reading up on the articles you pointed me at.


Nobody responded regarding splitting web and email activities - is this 
even possible? Right now is the time for me to decide which route to take. 
Whichever route, it won't be fun!


Right now the email services are being performed by an older internal 
server which has some good advantages for users, but it doesn't at present 
expose web services, and I haven't got a gateway / firewall that can 
forward port 80 because they're already in service serving httpd... ...I'm 
concerned that running on other than port 80 will cause other kinds of 
problems. I'm also not anxious to the risk of opening up an nfs disk to 
such a system, but could that even work?


Any thoughts, please? If you think splitting things up is unrealistic, 
please say so! Otherwise, I might be dumb (desperate) enough to try it and 
I've lost a lot of time as it is!


Thanks much,
Richard

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Disaster recovery: fastest / best route advice sought

[Richard]

On Wed, 25 Sep 2013, Fil wrote:


I would suggest that, on the Web server, you just proxy /mailman/ to your
Mailman's web service.
If you're using apache, something like this on the Web front-end will do:


ProxyPass /mailman http://ml.example.com/mailman
ProxyPassReverse /mailman http://ml.example.com/mailman


If you're using varnish, all the better, just define the mailman URL as a
backend.

-- Fil


Hi Fil, thanks for the reply...

...I dont' know what 'varnish' is (in this context), but I do have Apache 
running services on two web server systems...


I've never heard of this ProxyPass, or ProxyPassReverse (no surprise 
there!) so please help confirm my new understanding of them: I take it 
that in the example you gave, the URL (http://ml.example.com/mailman) 
pertains to the internal system, and ProxyPass and ProxyPassReverse are 
the two directions of a bidirectional feed that, in effect, makes the 
internal web server's targeted URL (namely, access to mailman) presented 
as "mailman" in whatever Apache container (like a virtual host) these 
parameters are included under?


So, that's making not the whole internal web server but JUST whereever 
that URL points to now be served by the external lable that's the first 
argument to ProxyPass and ProxyPassReverse?


If I understand correctly, GEEZ THAT'S COOL, and _completely_ solves my 
dilema! Please Confirm I got it!


THANK YOU,
Richard



On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Richard  wrote:

  Well Gang,

  I never did get mail working properly until this morning, and
  I'm just now focusing my attention back on mailman - can't worry
  about a mailing list manager when there's no competent mail
  services! (Note: FC19 is a bad choice for a server - I'll say no
  more about it.)

  ...This means we had our event and of course never had any email
  communications before it and, unfortunately, it was the worse
  for it...

  On Fri, 20 Sep 2013, Mark Sapiro wrote:

cat /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Version.py and look at

MAJOR_REV = 2
MINOR_REV = 1
MICRO_REV = 16
REL_LEVEL = GAMMA


Thanks, Mark, I'v apparently been using 2.1.13.

I presume that, with the goal of restoring between versions, there
aren't any significant issues with either loading into mailman.x86_64
3:2.1.15-12.fc19, or possibly mailman-2.1.14-12.fc16.x86_64... I'm
still reading up on the articles you pointed me at.

Nobody responded regarding splitting web and email activities - is
this even possible? Right now is the time for me to decide which route
to take. Whichever route, it won't be fun!

Right now the email services are being performed by an older internal
server which has some good advantages for users, but it doesn't at
present expose web services, and I haven't got a gateway / firewall
that can forward port 80 because they're already in service serving
httpd... ...I'm concerned that running on other than port 80 will
cause other kinds of problems. I'm also not anxious to the risk of
opening up an nfs disk to such a system, but could that even work?

Any thoughts, please? If you think splitting things up is unrealistic,
please say so! Otherwise, I might be dumb (desperate) enough to try it
and I've lost a lot of time as it is!

Thanks much,
Richard

--
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The Karmann Ghia Club of North America
4200 Park Blvd, #151, Oakland CA 94602, USA

rich...@karmannghia.org, http://KarmannGhia.org/Richard/
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[Mailman-Users] That pid file problem again - Hmmm...

[Richard]

Hello All,

I was having trouble setting up my new Apache installation to provide 
mailman it's public user interface and I got this (relatively common known 
problem) in /var/log/messages:


systemd[1]: PID file /var/run/httpd/httpd.pid not readable (yet?) after start.

In investigting, I found our own list's archives have this note:

https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2013-July/033900.html

...Relatively recent, too. However, my system (Fedora Core 16) doesn't 
(didn't) have any /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/apache.conf file. The directory 
exists, however, so I created the file as suggested, using the group and 
user ids of apache and apache, respectively, as that's what my default 
/etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf file calls for. Creating this file didn't help. 
Neither did just changing the pidfile - it apparently gets overwritten 
each time.


HOWEVER, I _can_ access the server.

Can I just ignore this, or... ...is it actually important for some reason?

Thanks,
Richard
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Disaster recovery: fastest / best route advice sought

[Richard]

On Wed, 25 Sep 2013, Richard wrote:

On Wed, 25 Sep 2013, Fil wrote:


I would suggest that, on the Web server, you just proxy /mailman/ to your
Mailman's web service.
If you're using apache, something like this on the Web front-end will do:


ProxyPass /mailman http://ml.example.com/mailman
ProxyPassReverse /mailman http://ml.example.com/mailman


If you're using varnish, all the better, just define the mailman URL as a
backend.

-- Fil


Hi Fil, thanks for the reply...



...snip...

If I understand correctly, GEEZ THAT'S COOL, and _completely_ solves my 
dilema! Please Confirm I got it!


THANK YOU,
Richard



OH MY! IT WORKS! _All_of_it._ Right Where We Left Off!

Of course the ProxyPass / ProxyPassReverse configuration is working 
perfectly - even adds some capability to the site we didn't have before...


THANK YOU FIL - AND MARK!   ...And, actually, EVERYONE who has had a hand 
in making this great product a reality...


I got it all working, and while the disaster I and my group have just been 
through was painful, working with mailman was the LEAST painful part of 
it! If you ever feel the need for a testimonial, I'm your guy!


With kindest regards, and great appreciation,
Richard

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[Mailman-Users] Admin vs moderator...

[Richard]

Hi Folks,

I have a moderator who's a bit hard to communicate with. She's new to the 
moderation game. I can't make her an administrator because it would be too 
risky - she'd likely screw it up because she has no idea what she's doing 
yet. And, I'm behind a firewall and she's on the outside, and I haven't 
time to figure out how to get mailman to present all the external names, 
though she CAN get where she needs to go. Adding to the difficulty is that 
the list is fully private...


I'm writing because she is so confused over the distinction between admin 
and moderator. The presumption in mailman seems to be to use administrator 
everywhere and only references moderator in a few places. ...I looked and 
didnt' find (maybe I'm blind!) a page that could help a moderator know 
how to do what they can do. She got logged in once but then was having 
trouble finding where she gets to subscription rules so she can ban 
people...


Is there any place I can point her that will help clarify this - I don't 
have time to babysit her, and I can't see exactly what she's doing nor 
give it to her because all the system names are different - so I 
constantly have to translate for her! Help!


Thanks guys n gals,

RT
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Admin vs moderator...

[Richard]

...I should have clarified: Her key problem seems to be moving from a 
screen where she used her Moderator password to successfully log in, to 
the "administrator interface". It asks her for the administrator password.


How is she supposed to manage subscriptions if she can't log in to the 
administrator interface?


Thanks...

RT

On Tue, 14 Jan 2014, Richard wrote:


Hi Folks,

I have a moderator who's a bit hard to communicate with. She's new to the 
moderation game. I can't make her an administrator because it would be too 
risky - she'd likely screw it up because she has no idea what she's doing 
yet. And, I'm behind a firewall and she's on the outside, and I haven't time 
to figure out how to get mailman to present all the external names, though 
she CAN get where she needs to go. Adding to the difficulty is that the list 
is fully private...


I'm writing because she is so confused over the distinction between admin and 
moderator. The presumption in mailman seems to be to use administrator 
everywhere and only references moderator in a few places. ...I looked and 
didnt' find (maybe I'm blind!) a page that could help a moderator know how to 
do what they can do. She got logged in once but then was having trouble 
finding where she gets to subscription rules so she can ban people...


Is there any place I can point her that will help clarify this - I don't have 
time to babysit her, and I can't see exactly what she's doing nor give it to 
her because all the system names are different - so I constantly have to 
translate for her! Help!


Thanks guys n gals,

RT
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[Mailman-Users] Command-line to the rescue?

[Richard]

Hi All,

For those who don't care about background, skip ahead to "DISCARD" below!

This past fall / winter, a series of old-hardware-finally-died events 
cascaded into a bloody mess with our network and - never mind the 
underlying details - I ended up with one remaining network problem I have 
yet to solve, and in the mean time, it's making my administration of 
Mailman lists a royal pain in the butt.


In short, there's a bug in the firewall / routing software on my firewall 
gateway box which is preventing me from getting to my own internal 
systems' external IP addresses via a web browser. Other people can get to 
those systems using their normal IP addresses (from the outside), but I 
can't (from the inside). However, the external systems don't administer 
Mailman anyway - two servers do pass-through to an internal server that 
does it on the same system that does email processing. SO, I _can_ get to 
that system via internal IP, and if I set up my /etc/hosts file correctly, 
the virtual domain hosting part works fine, too, so I have access to 
mailman administration from the inside, sort of!


HOWEVER, that system paints an external domain name, so all the pass 
through works through the external servers. This means the URLs are wrong 
for internal access and therefore if you try it SOME administration tasks 
fail because it tries to hit features using the external naming - which 
presently isn't working from the inside due to the routing problem! Doah! 
...ONE of those key administration tasks that doesn't work is the 
management of "pending moderator requests."


And, using the mail reply option isn't sufficient because we no longer 
have all the original administrator emails to reply to!


DISCARD

So... /usr/lib/mailman/bin/discard to the rescue?

All 'discard -h' says is:

Discard held messages.

Usage:
discard [options] file ...

Options:
--help / -h
Print this help message and exit.

--quiet / -q
Don't print status messages.

Um... Obvious question: What goes in the file?

I'd also have expected it to present me with an option to specify which 
list? A "from" email address? And what if I want to accept or reject 
instead of discard?


Is there a different utility I should be looking at?

BTW, it's mailman 2.1.14-12, and I'm pretty sure it's the youngest version 
that will run on that particular box.


Thanks,
Richard
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Command-line to the rescue?

[Richard]

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Mark Sapiro wrote:


So... /usr/lib/mailman/bin/discard to the rescue?

All 'discard -h' says is:

Discard held messages.

Usage:
 discard [options] file ...

Options:
 --help / -h
 Print this help message and exit.

 --quiet / -q
 Don't print status messages.

Um... Obvious question: What goes in the file?



The held message file(s) which are in Mailman's data/directory with names 
like heldmsg-LISTNAME-.*




I'd also have expected it to present me with an option to specify which
list? A "from" email address? And what if I want to accept or reject
instead of discard?

Is there a different utility I should be looking at?



See <http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/list_requests>.


PERFECT! THANK YOU SO MUCH!

In fact this is a MUCH better way to manage pending moderator requests 
than the web interface! YAY!


Just curious: This seems an obvious "enhancement" to younger versions - is 
it safe to assume this script is now a part of the standard distribution? 
(Or should I be mindful to save this script whenever I finally upgrade?)


Regards,
Richard
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[Mailman-Users] Trouble changing web_page_url

[Richard]

Hello All,

My system that serves both email and mailman sits behind a firewall. Email 
gets forwarded on by a gateway / firewall, and web access comes from a 
different server machine that sits on the boundary - has access to both 
networks, internal and external - and users get to mailman's web features 
through use of an Apache mechanism I can't quite recite to you now. If the 
user has the correct URL, everything works fine, but the automatically 
generated web pages and text at header / footer of emails is wrong, and, 
in particular that of welcome messages for new people.


I have a list I'd like to update and fix this (more than one, possibly, if 
I get this figured out!) but recreating it with proper attributes won't be 
easy as it has a bit of archive to it already. So, I thought I'd simply 
dump the config, edit the output file and re-import the change, but it 
won't take. On reloading, it always says, "Non-standard property restored: 
web_page_url". And, indeed, the parameter is NOT changed. Damn.


So, I know about the wonderful tools available here: 
http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/ I looked and found "set_attributes". 
Great! But while it spits out a few happy looking lines of text and 
appears to work at first, it returns the same error:


$ ./set_attributes "web_page_url = 'http://MyDomain.com/mailman/'" myList
attribute "web_page_url" changed
Non-standard property restored: web_page_url
$

-frown-

How am I supposed to do this?

Again, to be most precise, mailman is using the system's own internal 
network name (which I don't want to / can't change) instead of the 
external domain name I want it to use. I have not found a standard 
administrator way of setting this value. Note that it's NOT a virtual 
name! BOTH email and web server are accessable using the same domain name.


Thanks for any help.

Richard
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[Mailman-Users] Sending "password reminder" emails.

[Richard]

Hello Everyone,

I have more than once wished I could send out password reminder emails to 
either individuals or an entire list. However, I haven't found a way to do 
that yet. How can I do this, please?


Thanks,
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Trouble changing web_page_url

[Richard]

Earlier, I wrote:


Hello All,

My system that serves both email and mailman sits behind a firewall. Email 
gets forwarded on by a gateway / firewall, and web access comes from a 
different server machine that sits on the boundary - has access to both 
networks, internal and external - and users get to mailman's web features 
through use of an Apache mechanism I can't quite recite to you now. If the 
user has the correct URL, everything works fine, but the automatically 
generated web pages and text at header / footer of emails is wrong, and, in 
particular that of welcome messages for new people.


Please note that this is a particular problem for accessing attachments 
from the archive - the URL is just plain wrong. This is a big deal...




I have a list I'd like to update and fix this (more than one, possibly, if I 
get this figured out!) but recreating it with proper attributes won't be easy 
as it has a bit of archive to it already. So, I thought I'd simply dump the 
config, edit the output file and re-import the change, but it won't take. On 
reloading, it always says, "Non-standard property restored: web_page_url". 
And, indeed, the parameter is NOT changed. Damn.


So, I know about the wonderful tools available here: 
http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/ I looked and found "set_attributes". Great! 
But while it spits out a few happy looking lines of text and appears to work 
at first, it returns the same error:


$ ./set_attributes "web_page_url = 'http://MyDomain.com/mailman/'" myList
attribute "web_page_url" changed
Non-standard property restored: web_page_url
$


For what it's worth, I also tried about every version of what a URL might 
look like - removing 'http://";, including on the domain name, etc - 
nothing sticks.Frustrating!




-frown-

How am I supposed to do this?

Again, to be most precise, mailman is using the system's own internal network 
name (which I don't want to / can't change) instead of the external domain 
name I want it to use. I have not found a standard administrator way of 
setting this value. Note that it's NOT a virtual name! BOTH email and web 
server are accessable using the same domain name.


Thanks for any help.

Richard


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[Mailman-Users] Spam problems with mailman

[Richard]

It seems mailmain is victim of its own popularity!
I have subscribed recently to a mailman mailing list 
(http://stp.ling.uu.se/mailman/listinfo/dcml), posted a few messages there 
with a totally new email address, and quickly started receiveing spam. I have 
two friends with the same experience.
It seems spamers can easily collect email addresses from the "user at 
domain.com" text on archive web pages. It seems this is what happens even 
with the latest version available. (Please correct me if I am wrong). 

This protection is not enough! I suggest to totally remove emails from web 
pages, and let users add their email if they want - possibly in a "secret" 
form, like "NoSpamuser @ domain.com.invalid (remove invalid and nospam)". 

(It may be a bit more difficult maybe to remove emails from email, not web 
pages, but I do think it will be a bit make spamer's life more difficult).

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[Mailman-Users] Mailman's solution to DMARC makes List-Id useless

[Richard]

Hi,

I'm on a mailing list that recently switched the mailman DMARC setting
to "Munge from".  IMO, the munging of the From: line is fine as far as
I'm concerned and I see how that fixes the DMARC problem.

However, what is really annoying is that it takes the original From:
line and puts it on the Reply-To: line and there's no way to turn this
off.

I can't seem to find any explanation of why anyone thinks this is a
good idea.  Maybe someone here can explain it to me.

Below is why I think it's a bad idea.  Why can't we encode the original
email address in a comment or quoted token on the From: line instead of
jamming it onto Reply-To?

This is how I'm seeing mailing list messages now:

  To: Hal Finkel 
  cc: cfe-...@lists.llvm.org,
  Commit Messages and Patches for LLVM 
From: Lang Hames via cfe-dev 
Reply-To: Lang Hames 

The reply-to is going to the sender instead of the list, which is
making people cc the mailing list in order to get things to go back to
the list.  From what I read of DMARC, it's the munging of the From:
line that is needed in order to have messages pass the DMARC checks.
To me this makes sense -- the mailing list domain is sending the message
to the list and the appropriate domain checks need to be made against
the mailing list's domain, not the original author of the mailing list
message.

What I'm not understanding is how DMARC is mandating that Reply-To: go
back to the original author, and not the mailing list, as is the
usualy convention: public conversations from a mailing list cycle back
to the mailing list by default and only fork into a private
conversation when specifically requested.

What's happening now is that people are doing "reply to all" in order
to get the mailing list included, which makes *me* the recipient of
their reply and the mailing list cc'ed.  Then the mailing list
software notices that the message was sent *to* an address already on
the mailing list, so it doesn't send me a second copy of the message.

This means that every time someone replies to my messages on the
mailing list, and all subsequent replies in the thread because
everyone else will do reply-to-all as well, I'll be getting all these
private messages that are actually copies of the public messages but
I won't be getting the public messages.

This makes the entire List-Id field useless because none of these
replies to threads in which I participate will come back to me through
the mailing list, but instead as private copies of public messages
sent to the mailing list.  As a result, it basically screws up all
mailing list filtering -- which was the whole point of the list-id
field.
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[Mailman-Users] Correcting the URLs in mailman's automated emails

[Richard]

Hello All,

this has been a problem since forever, but for the, oh, 12 to 15 years 
I've been using mailman, heretofore I've had list members who were 
competent enough to tell them, "where you see this system name, replace it 
with this other one and it works fine." Now, that's not the case with a 
new group of list users. (And yes, I've tried in the past to fix this, but 
never found a solution and it wasn't all that vital.)


My scenario is simple enough; the mail server that runs mailman is on an 
internal, private network behind a firewall and has no direct external 
access. Mail gets through via a firewall / gateway machine, and web access 
to the web interface is done via "pipermail" interface through the web 
server. It all works except that the automated emails sent for things like 
bounces, initial welcome, password reminders and things like that ALWAYS 
have the internal system name for the URLs instead of the external one.


I've tried to figure out how to modify the templates to get it to work 
correctly, all to many wasted hours of frustration, and of course I've 
tried to look it up online. I can't find any information about what 
substutitions are available within the various templates, though I found a 
conversation where someone some 12 to 15 years ago said it was on their 
to-do list. I've been tempted to just hard-code, but there are several 
problems with that, such as that there are different list names that have 
to get inserted, or different usernames. And even if I could hard-code the 
system name / domain name part, I'd prefer to have the URL be unique for 
the particular community the list is serving - simply because having to 
explain a different domain name is just more wasted time. Plus, it would 
be easier to remember for people - what's that link for? OH, I remember!


Any help GRATEFULLY appreciated.

FWIW, I'm running mailman-2.1.18.1-3.fc21.x86_64 which I think is the 
youngest version available for FC21.



Thanks,
R

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Correcting the URLs in mailman's automated emails

[Richard]

Some clarification below:

On Wed, 12 Jul 2017, Richard wrote:


Hello All,

this has been a problem since forever, but for the, oh, 12 to 15 years I've 
been using mailman, heretofore I've had list members who were competent 
enough to tell them, "where you see this system name, replace it with this 
other one and it works fine." Now, that's not the case with a new group of 
list users. (And yes, I've tried in the past to fix this, but never found a 
solution and it wasn't all that vital.)


My scenario is simple enough; the mail server that runs mailman is on an 
internal, private network behind a firewall and has no direct external 
access. Mail gets through via a firewall / gateway machine, and web access to 
the web interface is done via "pipermail" interface through the web server. 
It all works except that the automated emails sent for things like bounces, 
initial welcome, password reminders and things like that ALWAYS have the 
internal system name for the URLs instead of the external one.


I've tried to figure out how to modify the templates to get it to work 
correctly, all to many wasted hours of frustration, and of course I've tried 
to look it up online. I can't find any information about what substutitions 
are available within the various templates, though I found a conversation 
where someone some 12 to 15 years ago said it was on their to-do list. I've 
been tempted to just hard-code, but there are several problems with that, 
such as that there are different list names that have to get inserted, or 
different usernames. And even if I could hard-code the system name / domain 
name part, I'd prefer to have the URL be unique for the particular community 
the list is serving - simply because having to explain a different domain 
name is just more wasted time. Plus, it would be easier to remember for 
people - what's that link for? OH, I remember!


Any help GRATEFULLY appreciated.

FWIW, I'm running mailman-2.1.18.1-3.fc21.x86_64 which I think is the 
youngest version available for FC21.



Thanks,
R


OF COURSE, I've found section 4.29 of the FAQ (which can be found here:
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.29%20Where%20can%20I%20change%20a%20list%20or%20the%20default%20URL%20used%20for%20the%20web%20interface%3F
)
...The problem is I don't understand it. In particular:

"and some more add_virtualhost(URL_FQDN, EMAIL_FQDN) if you are using 
virtual hosts."


Am I supposed to just add in all my virtual hosts here like this, and, if 
so, how on earth is the correct one distinguished per list?


Thanks,
R
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Size limit leads to rejection instead of moderation

[Richard]

On Sun, 4 Jun 2023, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:


Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 02:01:35 +0900
From: Stephen J. Turnbull 



If that doesn't reveal the reason, also check your MTA logs and
configuration.  MTAs are usually configured to reject or discard huge
messages (I think Postfix defaults to 50MB), and that would happen
before getting to Mailman.


Postfix has TWO such limits: message_size_limit and mailbox_size_limit.

They're both set in main.cf, which is usually found in /etc/postfix.

HTH,
RT
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[Mailman-Users] Where's the installation directions / source, etc, please?

[Richard]

Hi All,

I used to use plain-ole mailman, WAY back in the '90s, BEFORE mailman2 and 
LONG before mailman3... And I sure wish mailman2 had been done by people 
who had a sense for the challenges for normal non-developer system 
managers to deal with the software they actually developed. I'm sure it's 
fine if you're already a Django programmer and use "containers" all the 
time, but I'm not a Django fanboy, don't ever care to be, and think the 
idea of containers is inappropriate technology for a hell of a lot of 
use-cases, especially a small, self-run, no-budget installation.


But maybe the worst is that the developers of that stuff can't be bothered 
to create a wrapper so you've got ONE consistent way to do things from the 
command line?! WTF?! What the he... OK, no reason to get into a rant. Ya 
know, I tried it, gave it a fair attempt, and given my experience, if I 
wrote what I think of it here, I might get banned!


So, I'm done with it and want to go back to the old stuff. I'll happily 
build from source, etc. But my simplistic web searches haven't returned 
results and I'm afraid I didn't keep great records about it back when 
since it was just a part of my Fedora package system!


So, any pointers for this long-in-the-tooth Fedora Sys Admin?

Thanks folks,
Richard

(from somewhere in San Franciso's east bay area...)
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[Mailman-Users] Oops, key typo! ... Re: Where's the installation directions / source, etc, please?

[Richard]

Hi,

sorry for this typo I made...

I implied my complaints are with MailMan 2, and I wasn't thrilled with some 
changes but it's MM3 that's the headache.


I'd be happy to go back to say, how it was in 2019 or something like that. 
What, v 2.1.28 or some such.


I just want to be able to have something I can actuall MANAGE from the command 
line without having to learn a friggen programming language. All I have to do 
is SIMPLE BASIC STUFF, like, you know, create lists, add people to them and so 
forth! And I'd like to avoid use of containers and other noise that I have 
absolutely NO use for (other than mailman).


Thanks,
Richard


On Mon, 17 Jul 2023, rich...@karmannghia.org wrote:


 Hi All,

 I used to use plain-ole mailman, WAY back in the '90s, BEFORE mailman2 and
 LONG before mailman3... And I sure wish mailman2 had been done by people who
 had a sense for the challenges for normal non-developer system managers to
 deal with the software they actually developed. I'm sure it's fine if you're
 already a Django programmer and use "containers" all the time, but I'm not a
 Django fanboy, don't ever care to be, and think the idea of containers is
 inappropriate technology for a hell of a lot of use-cases, especially a
 small, self-run, no-budget installation.

 But maybe the worst is that the developers of that stuff can't be bothered
 to create a wrapper so you've got ONE consistent way to do things from the
 command line?! WTF?! What the he... OK, no reason to get into a rant. Ya
 know, I tried it, gave it a fair attempt, and given my experience, if I
 wrote what I think of it here, I might get banned!

 So, I'm done with it and want to go back to the old stuff. I'll happily
 build from source, etc. But my simplistic web searches haven't returned
 results and I'm afraid I didn't keep great records about it back when since
 it was just a part of my Fedora package system!

 So, any pointers for this long-in-the-tooth Fedora Sys Admin?

 Thanks folks,
 Richard

 (from somewhere in San Franciso's east bay area...)

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Oops, key typo! ... Re: Where's the installation directions / source, etc, please?

[Richard]

On Mon, 17 Jul 2023, Mark Sapiro wrote:


And see my reply to your post at 
<https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/message/ZA6J7DCYBOTVWYHFH3B2NFFWFQG5AKLS/>


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Thank you, Sir. I hope you are well paid! It's easy to tell you are a 
godsend for those of us with mailman issues and who are less well informed 
on the matter! (I've been on this list for a LONG time! Seldom post, 
though I learn just from reading and sometimes searching through the old 
mail.)


Richard
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[Mailman-Users] Signature issue - was Re: Re: Where's the installation directions / source, etc, please?

[Richard]

I'm trying to install 2.1.39 now, but am having an issue with verifying 
the tarball.


I downloaded from: https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/

...these files:

mailman-2.1.39.tgz
mailman-2.1.39.tgz.sig

When I execute the appropriate command:

$ gpg --verify mailman-2.1.39.tgz.sig mailman-2.1.39.tgz
gpg: Signature made Mon 13 Dec 2021 12:38:07 PM PST
gpg:using DSA key C638CAEF0AC21563736B5A22555B975E953B8693
gpg: Can't check signature: No public key


Advice?
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[Mailman-Users] Signature issue - was Re: Re: Where's the installation directions / source, etc, please? (fwd)

[richard]

NEVERMIND! I figured it out:

In this instance, it's:

gpg --recv-keys C638CAEF0AC21563736B5A22555B975E953B8693

Sorry to bother anybody! ;-)

Richard

---

I'm trying to install 2.1.39 now, but am having an issue with verifying the 
tarball.


I downloaded from: https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/

...these files:

mailman-2.1.39.tgz
mailman-2.1.39.tgz.sig

When I execute the appropriate command:

$ gpg --verify mailman-2.1.39.tgz.sig mailman-2.1.39.tgz
gpg:  Signature made Mon 13 Dec 2021 12:38:07 PM PST
gpg: using DSA key C638CAEF0AC21563736B5A22555B975E953B8693
gpg:  Can't check signature: No public key


Advice?
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[Mailman-Users] Python 2.7.15, etc, vs Python3...

[Richard]

Inching forward here folks, trying to get Mailman 2.1.39 going.

I get to the point it calls Python and it dies with:

checking for python... /usr/local/bin/python
checking Python interpreter... configure: error:

* No Python interpreter found!
* Try including the configure option
* --with-python=/path/to/python/interpreter

I checked; there are only 245 different Python packages installed! 
-slap-forehead- What was I thinking! OF COURSE it requires more of 'em!


If I type python and then double-hit tab, I get:

python3
python3.11
python3.11-config
python3.11-x86_64-config
python3-config
python-argcomplete-check-easy-install-script
python-argcomplete-tcsh
python-config

...I tryed to install the corresponding package, which appears to be 
Python 2.7.15, it as a package but it couldn't be found by the 
usual package manager


OTOH, can Python3 (what's there now) be THAT backwards incompatible?!

SURELY I can make it happy somehow, right?

How about an ln -s of /usr/local/bin/python to the one in my path?

Do I have to install the old Python from source, TOO?!

Anybody know?

Thanks,
R

P.S. It seems BIZARRE to me that we have the good ole cc and gcc that just 
work after however many decades, yet the modern developers seem just not 
have a clue how - or just don't care - to code for longevity - what, the 
code to get python has to enter python3 now or just die? Really?


I'm sure you can easily tell I strongly disagree with modern practices 
about dependencies; "computer science" has gone backwards, at least in 
strategy! ... But I digress...


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[Mailman-Users] Re: Python 2.7.15, etc, vs Python3...

[Richard]

On Mon, 17 Jul 2023, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:



Python 2 and Python 3 are enough different to effectively be
different languages.


BTW, there is a python2 to 3 converter, 


There's also this project:

https://github.com/jaredmauch/mailman2-python3/


-Jim P.



Now that Jared Mauch (I presume), is a man with a good plan! ;-)


(Maybe! How do we know they won't abandon Python3 like they did Python2? I 
mean, whatever happened to Python1?! Why isn't it just "Python"?)


Thanks, Jim, for pointing this out!

R
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[Mailman-Users] Re: List Won't Send Mail

[Richard]

I have a list that won't send out mail. I believe that all the settings are 
correct, but I could have missed something.


I am running Mailman 2.1.39 cPanel, and I have access to the command line.

I have a list that I needed to modify settings. It was established by a prior 
administrator, to whom I have no contact.


I can access admin UI, and modified everything. However, at the bottom of the 
Administrative page, where it says "list run by" the domain it shows is 
incorrect. It is a domain used for mail only on my installation.


The list comes up on my list of lists pages, but when I mail to it, it get 
permanent error list not found.


I hope this makes sense!


Dave

p.s. I don't know why or how, but I think the list isn't completely 
registered with the system. Also, I was able to establish a similar list, 
with different capitalization of name, the both show up on admin page, but 
not sure how to get rid of the bad one because it doesn't show up in the 
cPanel UI.


Dave



Dave, start with the DNS: Where do / does the DNS record(s) point?

There could be some issue with that.

If it HAD worked the obvious question is: "What changed?"

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Questions About "An embedded message was scrubbed..."

[Richard]

...snip...

So is it the case that the message you received contained the actual messages 
and they were only scrubbed in the archive and not in the message delivered 
to List #2 members?


If so, that is a limitation of the archiver.



Um...

OK, it's not a confirmed archiver issue but... I seem to recall that just 
within the last day we read that Mailman 2 stores the archives "as was" in 
a simple mbox, but Mailman 3 does not: Is this a potential Mailman 3 
issue?


As a potential Mailman 3 user someday (vs v2 holdout)... did I miss 
something?


Tnx,
R
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[Mailman-Users] Re: spamming

[richard]

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023, dde...@cyberthugs.com wrote:

..

Implementing the google captcha solution to Mailman a week or so ago 
stopped it dead. For now...


Hi Jim,

Interesting, and thanks for posting.

Can you please describe, briefly, as an overview only, what that interface 
is like?


I'm sure I can look up details, but, well, "details matter!" (And I don't 
mean the nitty gritty of installation or whatever.) I'm interested in 
implementation overview in how that relates to the user's experience - I 
already know what 'captcha' is like! We're talking web interface details, 
right?


Thanks,
Richard
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Security features of Mailman

[richard]

Steve, Sron, et al:

Regarding:

"ensur[ing] a safe environment for email discussions"

...I would hope that all netizens are fully aware (and obviously not all 
are) that there is not and cannot be such a thing as "safe environment for 
email discussions" with email as now practiced and to create it requires a 
serious overhaul of the way email is conducted.


It doesn't have to be this way: email bodies and even the destination 
username and other parts of email headers COULD be encrypted when enroute 
via the same mechanisms as we have long used for secured web sites, and 
even end-to-end encryption isn't too difficult to implement, and I'd lay a 
substantial bet that an open-sourced effort harnessing the ideas of DKIM / 
SPF / DMARC could easily and simply accomplish this.


However, the simple (and for me painful) truth is that The Powers That Be 
_obviously_ do not want us to have secure communications. Their excuse is 
fear ("terrorism!") and their more dominant motive is profit. It's truly 
as simple is that.


Anyone who thinks their unencrypted emails are in any way secure on the 
open internet is, unfortunately SADLY mistaken.


And therefore any discussion of "ensur[ing] a safe environment for email 
discussions" is a real head-scratcher for me!


Chalk this one up as yet another entry in the long list of our collective 
needs shot down by the "this is why we can't have nice things" excuse.


Regards,
Richard

P.S. PERHAPS someone reading this has the energy and gumption to change 
this?! I sure hope so! ...I've been using email for 47 years now, I did my 
part, I tried hard, it's up to younger generations to carry it forward 
now. But I'll be happy to assist anyone else's efforts on this!


RT
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Security features of Mailman

[Richard]

On Mon, 29 Jan 2024, Dmitri Maziuk wrote:


Given what a sentence like "ensur[ing] a safe environment for email 
discussions" means in the current US political climate, when I see something 
like that, I killfile the sender.


IJS,
Dima



Oh Gawd, Dima, sensorship vs spying?! I missed that entirely! -eye-roll-

Richard
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Security features of Mailman

[Richard]

On Tue, 30 Jan 2024, Dmitri Maziuk wrote:


On 1/30/24 07:47, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

 rich...@karmannghia.org writes:

...

  >  Anyone who thinks their unencrypted emails are in any way secure on
  >  the open internet is, unfortunately SADLY mistaken.

 This is true.  Security by obscurity works up to a point, but if you
 ever get targeted by the FBI you're toast.


Whereas anyone who thinks their encrypted-in-transit e-mails are in any way 
secure on gmail servers, is delusional. Google gives FBI access to mailboxes, 
and they won't ever tell you because gag orders (google it).


Dima


You're obviously correct, Dima; who your mail host is matters, and who 
your recipent(s) mail hosts are also matter and if either is like Google, 
Hotmail, Yahoo, etc, well... it's pretty pointless.


People need to remember: If it's free, YOU are the product!

But more than that, I try and get people to understand that due to their 
ignorant choice of gmail, for example, I won't send them all kinds of 
emails I might otherwise send, even though it's not encrypted end-to-end 
because (as someone pointed out) obscurity works to a point, so SOME 
things I might not mind sending in that way.


I have a good handful of friends who I have managed to convince to move to 
Proton Mail because I just won't deal with them via email if they remain 
on gmail, etc.


Richard
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Security features of Mailman

[richard]

 YOU 
having none. The back-dooring they've compelled is nothing short of 
appalling.


My offer to help still stands; I can be an awesome ally but I shouldn't be 
the one trying to drive this as I'm spread too thin already!


Either way, this has taken up enough of the mailman list's time! So, if 
anyone cares to be engaged in this, email me privately and maybe we can 
work something out? SOMEBODY's got to do this!


Regards,
Richard
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Security features of Mailman

[richard]

is abjectly false, Juergen proved it, and not only was it NOT 
difficult 20 years ago, in the 20 years since then what's fairly easily 
possible has expanded considerably.


BTW, that one of us doesn't know how such things are done, by the way, 
doesn't mean it's difficult. I love Will Roger's comment about such 
things: "Everybody's ignorant, just about different things is all!"


It's no strike against anyone they don't know how things might be 
accomplished, but something we all need to watch out for is our own false 
presumption that if we don't see how something can be done it must be 
hard.


The BIG question here is surely beyond this list's purview: Can we manage 
to get an easy-to-use mechanism where any given user's public key can be 
found? We now have at least The Electronic Frontier Foundation, 
LetsEncrypt, and Proton AG who might well lend some muscle in this 
venture: Think of a DNS-like system, perhaps even an actual evolution of 
DNS itself, that permits users to declare their public keys in a publicly 
findable way. For sites that want to keep user lists private but still do 
this, perhaps a validation server could be devized with site-specific 
policies on who gets to know what about a given username@domain entry - 
think "I want to send encrypted email to user@your.system," and the mail 
server or some similar server looks at the request and honors it by 
sending the public key or not.


I posit that such a change would cause an explosion of use of encryption 
for the simple reason that it's use can then be largely automated and thus 
remove a huge fraction of the burden from the individual. It would 
enable FAR more security, writ-large, than is under discussion here. I 
won't bother you with all of it but just point your brain in pondering the 
power of a very simple back-and-forth, "I use your key to send you 
something encrypted, you send it back encrypted with my key telling me 
what it is and we just validated each other."


IF a list manger like mailman wanted to handle this it surely could! In 
that instance the broader key management via DNS or DNS-like system is not 
necessary.


As for users wanting to grep emails, that's a lame excuse: Just leave the 
email unencrypted in your local folder! That one's born of lazyness not 
capability. However, using encryption today CAN BE an annoying thing. My 
goal is to remove the time consuming hassle.


Richard / Steve dialogue:


> [M]y only real interest here is on the accessibility (privacy)
> aspect, and list-management software like mailman DOES have
> something to say about architectural details of implementation for
> an encrypted email world.
[...]
> A straight-forward approach might be, for example, that the entire set of
> data transferred between two MTAs is encrypted save the destination
> system's network address and the destination port.

I believe we already have that in some profiles of IPSec.


I've never seen / noticed that. A pointer would be nice!


> The MTA decrypts

Then the MTA is an agent-in-the-middle, and an obvious point of attack.


Yawn. Let people decide what their comfort level of risk is. The idea is 
to ENABLE.



> All of this and much more is not particularly difficult to
> accomplish from a technical point of view - it's only a "Small
> Matter Of Code" as Michael Stonebraker (Turing Award Winner)
> famously says.

As I pointed out above, a lot of it is already implemented -- but not
in MTAs/MDAs, MUAs, or mailing lists.  All of which have multiple
implementations and those implementations must agree exactly, or
somebody is going to get hacked.


I never said this was only a mailing list issue. We, collectively, need a 
better infrastructure.



As I've said several times before in this kind of conversation, what
we need to do is identify specific privacy threats (mechanisms for
infringement) and user populations who need protection from them, and
then see if we can design a list (and probably MTA) architecture that
provides that protection.


The privacy threat: Unencrypted email in transit on the internet.

Affected user population: All email users.

And yes, MTA is the correct level, though as noted above, an email list 
CAN help a lot WITHOUT an MTA level "fix".


Regards,
Richard
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Attach footer only once?

[Richard]

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

...snip...


 Otherwise, not generically, short of plugging in a well-trained LLM.
 The problem is that quoting conventions etc differ across mail
 clients, as do signature blocks.  If the signature appears below the
 quoted footer, it will become quite complex to decide how much to
 remove, especially since some "modern" (aka nonconformant) clients
 don't conform to the traditional signature inclusion conventions.


That's just silly: We've had "diff" for over THREE full decades now, to 
say nothing of the variants.


A VERY straight-forward strategy would be to diff the current inbound against 
the previous one it was in reply to - using threading as already cited. No LLM 
is needed, well trained or otherwise, and neither is it "quite complex." 
It's surely far easier than spam detection!


Richard
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Attach footer only once?

[Richard]

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024, Mark Sapiro wrote:


The larger problem notwithstanding, the OP's situation is much simpler. He 
doesn't want to remove irrelevant quotes from incoming mail. He only wants to 
remove the specific list footer.


This could probably be done in Mailman's incoming runner, but finding and 
removing the offending text from all incoming message parts including 
text/html and other text/* parts in addition to text/plain is still 
non-trivial.




I can appreciate how it appears that way and I myself "cut my teeth" on 
this very issue when writing a mail-related app myself. However, I 
found a way that made it easy.


What I did was use ripmime to parse the email and have it spit out the 
email into its constituent parts while also still leaving the original 
email whole, and then it was pretty straight-forward, though, of course, 
HTML markup is a whole 'nother issue!


Perhaps that helps someone attack this problem?

Rgds,
Richard
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Attach footer only once?

[Richard]

On Wed, 14 Feb 2024, Tim Houseman wrote:


Thanks for the response. I thought this was the answer but it is nice to
have confirmation. I'd love to tell my client that they need better trained
subscribers but the only answer I ever get is "Training our membership is
not an option" when there are easy fixes to member complaints. Such is life.

I was kind of hoping that like Richard implied there would be some
straightforward milter I could attach and run string matching against.
Since that isn't an option though I'll let my client know and we'll move on
to things that can be resolved.


Another idea just popped into my head:

IF you could find a basic milter template that has some pass-through 
capability, you could potentially filter ALL occurrances of the footer and 
then re-attach ONE when done with it by using the "replace" utility.


Replace is a part of the MySQL package and is available currently on 
Fedora, and likely other Linux distributions. Here's an example usage:


$ echo "fubar" | replace "b" "f"
fufar

(You can also use it on the content of files, but a pipe is likely more 
applicable to you.)


With a little testing you can probably get something like that working, 
I'd imagine, first by replacing with nothing, then appending at the end 
when done? Sure, a bit of work, but logically straight-forward.


Good luck,
Richard
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Separate Sender and Receiver?

[Richard Barrett]

At 19:08 19/12/2002, Nick Seidenman wrote:


Has anyone tried a configuration that uses a different host for sending 
outgoing posts than the one receiving the incoming posts?

Nick

Don't know if this will help but I reckon the incoming MTA has to be run on 
the same host as Mailman but given the use of SMTP the MTA handling the 
outgoing traffic can be any machine that will accept and relay the traffic. 
I certainly ran our mailing list setup that way for a while.


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[Mailman-Users] MM 2.1 compatible MM-htdig integration patchesavailable

[Richard Barrett]

I have posted on sourceforge MM 2.1 compatible versions of my patches to 
support integration of MM with htdig.

There is now a third precursor patch that needs to be applied to correct 
some defects in some HTML templates in the MM 2.1 distribution.

The order in which the patches should be applied is as follows:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=661138&group_id=103&atid=300103

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444879&group_id=103&atid=300103

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444884&group_id=103&atid=300103

Let me know if you have any problems with these.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: upgrading plaintext patched 2.0.13 to 2.1

[Richard Barrett]

At 16:03 03/01/2003, David Gibbs wrote:

"Dan Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I located "if self.data_version >= mm_cfg.DATA_FILE_VERSION:" at line
> 611 of the /Mailman/MailList.py file. Is this what needs to be altered?
> Do I just make the change to that file then run ./configure?

Dan:

I ran into this exact problem in an early beta of MM 2.1 ... you are
correct, basically change the DATA_FILE_VERSION statement back to
"DATA_FILE_VERSION = 21", configure, and reinstall, and it should be
corrected.

david


And if you look in the UPGRADING file in the MM 2.1 distribution you'll 
find Barry has referenced a patch which you can apply to MM 2.1 source to 
deal with the problem:


- If you've applied patch #413752 (coerce to plaintext), then your
  upgraded will not go smoothly.  Take a look at patch #651406 for
  an unofficial solution.

  http://sf.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103&func=detail&aid=413752
  http://sf.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103&func=detail&aid=651406



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Htdig patch not available

[Richard Barrett]

At 16:49 03/01/2003, Listmom wrote:

Has anyone been able to access the htdig patch (444884) for Mailman 2.1?
When I follow the link on source forge, I get an empty page.
--
Never raise your fist in anger.  It leaves your groin unprotected.
--
Tod L Glenn
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


This is a result of some problem with sourceforge and all depends on what 
version of what browser on what OS. Results have ranged from blank page 
through a partial page to a full page with links to the files.

I reported it to the sourceforge people this morning and they have emailed 
me this afternoon to say the problem has been fixed. Since then I have been 
able to access the full page with both IE and Netscape and access the 
posted patch file.

If  anyone is still having problems I can email the patch file as an 
attachment but please ask only if it is strictly necessary.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] upgrade: 2.0.13 to 2.1, searchable archives?

[Richard Barrett]

At 21:03 03/01/2003, Jeff A. Earickson wrote:

Howdy,

I successfully upgraded from 2.0.13 to 2.1 today, with minimal fuss
and pain.  Some comments:

a) I can no longer get sync_members to work.  It always gives the
following error:

   Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "/opt/mailman/bin/sync_members", line 286, in ?
   main()
 File "/opt/mailman/bin/sync_members", line 258, in main
   s = email.Utils.formataddr((name, addr)).encode(enc, 'replace')
   UnboundLocalError: local variable 'enc' referenced before assignment

I really miss sync_members...

b) The ability to turn off RFC2369 mail headers on a per-list basis
is a huge win for me, for a few cranky list-owners that hated seeing
the list management stuff in Eudora.  Thank you, thank you.

c) The ability to turn off subscribe/unsubscribe passwords and/or
list-owner confirmation on a per-list basis would also be a help.
After converting from majordomo to Mailman, some of my old list-owners
hate the password thing, and so are less than happy with Mailman
(I am however).

Question:  How to I get searchable archives?  Like

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

for my own mailing-list archives?  How come this doesn't come as
a part of Mailman?


The  www.mail-archive.com  site use the htdig search engine which is 
available from http://htdig.org and is also included in several Linux 
distributions. However, that site uses the MHonArc archiving software 
rather than MM's builtin Pipermail archiver.

One approach to integrating builtin-Pipermail-archiver constructed MM 
archives with htdig is to apply the following patches in the order given to 
a MM 2.1 build directory:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=661138&group_id=103&atid=300103
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444879&group_id=103&atid=300103
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444884&group_id=103&atid=300103

You will find a  comprehensive INSTALL.htdig-mm document is available in 
the MM build directory after applying patch #444884

You might also like to check out other options with the MM FAQ:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.011.htp

Note that the extra #661138 patch needed with MM 2.1 hasn't made it into 
the FAQ yet.

--- Jeff Earickson

 


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[Mailman-Users] Htdig integration patch availability

[Richard Barrett]

I have had several reports of people having trouble accessing patch #444884 
on sourceforge.

If anyone is still having that problem then, as a temporary measure, I have 
made all my MM-htdig integration patches (#661138, #444879 and #444884) 
available via http://www.openinfo.demon.co.uk/mailman/index.html

Any problems, then let me know


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[Mailman-Users] htdig integration patch access problem

[Richard Barrett]

In the light of the attached I'm starting to wonder if sourceforge is 
really up to the task. The support response would probably be more familiar 
to users of the commercial operating systems so many of us love to hate.

Of course, if any of you have experienced the problem in downloading the 
htdig integration patch #444884 would like to add your comments to the 
support request, I'm sure that the sourceforge support people will 
appreciate the input confirming their complacency over the issue.

I think that in future I will post any patches I develop on my own web site 
(http://www.openinfo.demon.co.uk/mailman/index.html
) in parallel to posting to sourceforge, given the  potential unreliability 
of their delivery.



To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: "SourceForge.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [ alexandria-Support Requests-661494 ] Tracker usage issue
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 11:03:15 -0800

Support Requests item #661494, was opened at 2003-01-03 03:46
You can respond by visiting:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=21&aid=661494&group_id=1

Category: SF.net Tracker System
Group: Second Level Support
Status: Open
Priority: 5
Submitted By: Richard Barrett (ppsys)
>Assigned to: Ari Gordon-Schlosberg (regs)
Summary: Tracker usage issue

Initial Comment:
The following problem occurs when using different
browsers (IE 5.5, Netscape 7.0, Mozilla) on different
platforms (Win2k Linux) and have been reported to me by
other users.

The following URL returns a blank page and should not:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444884&group_id=103&atid=300103

Using an https version of the URL returns the top half
of the page but not the list of existing files that
have been uploaded:

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444884&group_id=103&atid=300103

These failures are preventing users gaining access to
the latest version of the patch that has been posted.
The updated patch file was uploaded yesterday since
when this problem has existed. Can you help identify
what the problem is??

--

>Comment By: David Burley (burley)
Date: 2003-01-06 14:03

Message:
Logged In: YES
user_id=597273

Project: mailman
URL:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444884&group_id=103&atid=300103
reproduceablility: intermittant (reload page)

------

Comment By: Richard Barrett (ppsys)
Date: 2003-01-06 13:34

Message:
Logged In: YES
user_id=75166

The same URLs as I cited in the orginal fault report. See
above and below.

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?
func=detail&aid=444884&group_id=103&atid=300103

and

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?
func=detail&aid=444884&group_id=103&atid=3001

As I write both the http and the https version of the URL are
returning the results I have been complaining about to IE 5.5
and Netscape 7 running on Win 2k, Mozilla 0.9.4 and
Netscape 4.78 on Suse Linux 7.3.

These results are not totally consistent and on odd occasions
the full page may be returned but retrying shortly afterwards
give the blank or truncated page.

I hav no idea what the cause iibut it is being experienced by
multiple users using various browsers on different operating
systems.The only common element is the target URL.

Over the weekend I was seeing the problem going via two
different ISP ADSL accounts and over our corporate 2Mbit
link.

Over the weekend three other users of Mailman have emailed
me saying they are getting a blank page from these URLs
and asking me to email copies of the patch #444884 that
should be available through the subject URLs.

I am now posting patches on my own web site to
compensate for the problems other users are having it getting
them via sourceforge.

Please remember that just because you cannot observe the
problem from a machine on the same network as the server
which is getting the HTTP request for the page does not
mean it is not a real problem and not being a royal pain in the
backside to your user community.

What follows is the text of an email I received over the
weekend. When I checked what the guy had said I found the
problem was back and has stayed.

Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Htdig patch not available
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



>
> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:39:21 +
> From: Richard Barrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Listmom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Htdig patch not available
> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030103203553.03d1edd0@ext-
proxy.ftel.co.uk>
> In-Reply-To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 10
>
> At 16:49 03/01/2003, Listmom wrote:
>> Has 

[Mailman-Users] htdig integration patch access problem now fixed

[Richard Barrett]

A short saga. The guys at sourceforge have come up with the goods, 
identified what was causing the problem in accessing patch #444884 and 
fixed it. Good job by them. Their support response reads as follows; it was 
a generic problem that this patch just happened to trip over:


Date: 2003-01-06 16:59
Sender: regs
Logged In: YES
user_id=9074

Found it, fixed it.  It was a PHP memory exhaustion issue
caused by the number of attached files, it would seem.  I've
bumped the memory limits by 2 MB for php and all seems to be
happy now.

--
Ari Gordon-Schlosberg, SourceForge.net Engineering





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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/htdig Success and a question or 3..

[Richard Barrett]

At 05:18 08/01/2003, Glenn Sieb wrote:

First I just want to say:

MAILMAN ROCKS! :)

I managed to get 2.1 and htdig all running together and working 
peachykeen... :) it's a beautiful thing! My monthly mailers all work now, 
creating lists from the webinterface works, etc!

However--a suggestion? In Defaults.py, once all the patches are added, we 
now see:

ARCHIVE_INDEXING_ENABLE = ''
ARCHIVE_INDEXING_DISABLE = ''
# htdig integration parameters
# if you set USE_HTDIG then you must also set HTDIG_MAILMAN_LINK
# and HTDIG_RUNDIG_PATH to suit your htdig installation, for instance:
# HTDIG_MAILMAN_LINK = 'htdig-mailman'
# HTDIG_RUNDIG_PATH = '/usr/bin/rundig'
USE_HTDIG = 0# 0 - don't use integrated htdig, 1 - use it
HTDIG_ARCHIVE_URL = '/mailman/htdig/' # must end in a slash
HTDIG_SEARCH_URL = '/cgi-bin/htsearch'
HTDIG_FILES_URL = '/htdig/'
HTDIG_CONF_LINK_DIR = os.path.join(VAR_PREFIX, 'archives', 'htdig')
HTDIG_MAILMAN_LINK = 'htdig-mailman'
HTDIG_RUNDIG_PATH = '/usr/local/bin/rundig'

Now.. as far as I can tell, HTDIG_ARCHIVE_URL is just wrong. 
/mailman/htdig/ isn't the location of archives using Pipermail.. it's 
/mailman/pipermail ... So I'm wondering:

1) Am I just reading this wrong? Is my setup somehow b0rken? I had to set 
HTDIG_ARCHIVE_URL = '/mailman/pipermail/' in mm_cfg.py

/mailman/htdig/ is correct. This is explained in the file 
$build/INSTALL.htdig-mm installed by the #444884 patch. In part it says:


$prefix/cgi-bin/htdig
$prefix/Mailman/Cgi/htdig.py

these are a CGI script and its wrapper, which is always on the path
of URLs returned from searches of htdig indices. The script provides
secure access to such URLs in the same way that the
$prefix/cgi-bin/private and $prefix/Mailman/Cgi/private.py. htdig.py
ensures private archives are kept private, applying the same
criteria for permitting access as private.py, and delivering
material from public archives without demanding any authentication.



2) What about private archives? Can there be (maybe in a future version) 
HTDIG_PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL ? As it stands, I have to manually edit the 
.conf to fix it for private archives... hardly a big deal, but 
I'm just the curious type...

3) I'm using the postfix-to-mailman.py (modified to work with 2.1--easy 
enough, if anyone would like a copy, I'll happily post it), and do not use 
mailman's aliases file--is there a way to stop mailman from writing to 
this data/aliases file? Not a biggie, I'm still just a curious guy :)

Again... you guys rock!!! :)

Thanks,
Glenn
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Re: [Mailman-Users] What's wrong with the mailman-users archive?

[Richard Barrett]

At 00:16 10/01/2003, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:

Hi,

As of 0900 JST (+0900),
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-January/date.html
shows 12 messages archived but it also says there are 311 messages.

Looks like all the messages before Wed Jan 8 13:55:56 EST 2003 (in
January 2003) are gone !


I think the HTML messages are there but the archive index page generation 
is going wrong, although new messages are being added to the truncated list 
on the index page. That said the gzipped text file of the archive is 
consistent with the index page.

What happened ?

Tokio


Maybe related to the problem I've been seeing but maybe not; according to 
message headers on some mail coming from the list the time from the mailman 
server receiving posts to sending them out has been very lengthy (see 
headers below from one message). Before the list's index page was screwed 
up messages were appearing in the archives long before they were passed to 
the mail.python.org MTA for distribution to the list members.

Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore
  for [EMAIL PROTECTED] id 1042145505:20:23692:131;
  Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:51:45 GMT
Received: from mail.python.org ([12.155.117.29]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net
   id ab2024967; 9 Jan 2003 20:51 GMT
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=mail.python.org)
by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05)
id 18WjeO-EU-00
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:51:40 -0500
Received: from mail1.nucleus.com ([207.34.101.2] helo=MAIL.nucleus.com)
by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05)
id 18W7K0-0008Ny-00
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tue, 07 Jan 2003 22:56:04 -0500
Received: from www.kumacommunications.net (unverified [207.229.8.78]) by
MAIL.nucleus.comfor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:56:03 -0700
Received: from grizzly (dsl-psoun-207-229-8-79-edm.nucleus.com 
[207.229.8.79])
h083tsf27303
for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tue, 7 Jan 2003 20:55:54 -0700


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Error after install with "newlist"

[Richard Barrett]

At 20:18 10/01/2003, e. wu wrote:

Sorry for the newbie question...can anyone help me interpret this? I just 
installed Mailman 2.1 on OS X with postfix using a combination of 
directions off the web.

Everything seems to install fine, but when I create a new list I get this:


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/newlist", line 219, in ?
main()
  File "bin/newlist", line 160, in main
mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 437, in Create
self._full_path = Site.get_listpath(name, create=1)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Site.py", line 59, in get_listpath
_makedir(path)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Site.py", line 34, in _makedir
os.makedirs(path, 02775)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/os.py", line 203, in makedirs
mkdir(name, mode)
OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/test'

It seems to be some sort of permissions problem but as far as I can tell I 
have proper permissions on everything, and check_perms reveals no problems.

Best regards,
Ed

I would first check the id you are using when you run newlist from the 
command line and if it isn't mailman is that id a member of the mailman 
group. check_perms will normally have given mailman:mailman write 
permissions over the list directory.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Ok.. got everything working..

[Richard Barrett]

Glenn

At 23:01 11/01/2003, Glenn Sieb wrote:

Just a minor question:

On my listinfo page it says:

Send questions or comments to 
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]

How do I change that? I can't find anything in Defaults.py (and list.org 
seems to be down)... I don't remember if it was like this with the prior 
install or not. I've searched the web, to no avail.. the only thing I 
found was to put

MAILMAN_OWNER = 'whatever'

in mm_cfg.py .. however, even after a full stop & restart of Apache, this 
hasn't worked.

So just curious.. how do I change this is 2.1 final?

Thanks!
Glenn

Depends on how you want to change it. Assuming you've checked out the final 
setup notes in INSTALL file, the notes in Defaults.py and made your changes 
in mm_cfg.py

You will probably want to use the $prefix/bin/fix_url.py bin/withlist 
script to get the changes in mm_cfg.py to propagate to an existing list.

Richard


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Ok.. got everything working..

[Richard Barrett]

At 18:23 12/01/2003, Glenn Sieb wrote:

At 01:12 PM 1/12/2003 +, Richard Barrett posted the following...

Depends on how you want to change it. Assuming you've checked out the 
final setup notes in INSTALL file, the notes in Defaults.py and made your 
changes in mm_cfg.py

I've read INSTALL, there seems to be nothing there showing me how to 
change that "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" to something useful. Neither was 
there anything in Defaults.py that I could find.. I searched archives and 
found "MAILMAN_OWNER", but that also does not appear in the Defaults.py 
file. I have placed that entry into my mm_cfg.py, to no avail.


The function listinfo_overview in $prefix/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py says:

siteowner = Utils.get_site_email()

Function get_site_email in $prefix/Mailman/Utils.py is defined as:

def get_site_email(hostname=None, extra=None):
if hostname is None:
hostname = mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOSTS.get(get_domain(), get_domain())
if extra is None:
return '%s@%s' % (mm_cfg.MAILMAN_SITE_LIST, hostname)
return '%s-%s@%s' % (mm_cfg.MAILMAN_SITE_LIST, extra, hostname)

From which we can conclude that the value of hostname

hostname = mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOSTS.get(get_domain(), get_domain())

and the mailto is to the values of:

'%s@%s' % (mm_cfg.MAILMAN_SITE_LIST, hostname)

Function get_domain in $prefix/Mailman/Utils.py is defined as:

def get_domain():
host = os.environ.get('HTTP_HOST', os.environ.get('SERVER_NAME'))
port = os.environ.get('SERVER_PORT')
# Strip off the port if there is one
if port and host.endswith(':' + port):
host = host[:-len(port)-1]
if mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW and host:
return host.lower()
else:
# See the note in Defaults.py concerning DEFAULT_HOST_NAME
# vs. DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.
hostname = mm_cfg.DEFAULT_HOST_NAME or mm_cfg.DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
return hostname.lower()

So I would guess that hostname is is defined by some combination of the 
following variables in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py depending on which are defined 
and how:

VIRTUAL_HOSTS
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST
DEFAULT_HOST_NAME
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST

There is some information about these variable in $prefix/Mailman/Defaults.py.

Hope this helps


You will probably want to use the $prefix/bin/fix_url.py bin/withlist 
script to get the changes in mm_cfg.py to propagate to an existing list.

Well this is on the "list of lists" page 
(https://www.wingfoot.org/mailman/listinfo) ...

Again, thank you for all your help :) Of all that was going on, this is 
pretty minor, and certainly liveable for now. I just figured this 
would/should be an easily changed setting...

Thanks!
Glenn


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[Mailman-Users] DEFAULT_URL_HOST problem

[Richard Pyne]

I am tyring to install and configure mailman 2.1 on a machine and am 
running into a problem. It appears that the only value it will accept 
for the DEFAULT_URL_HOST is the generic one listed the ISPs reverse 
DNS.

If I try to configure the DEFAULT_URL_HOST as one of the virtual names 
for the machine, I get an error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/newlist", line 74, in ?
from Mailman import mm_cfg
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 45, in ?
DEFAULT_URL_HOST=lists.kinfolk.org
NameError: name 'lists' is not defined

I have these three lines added to my mm_cfg.py file:

DEFAULT_URL_HOST=lists.kinfolk.org
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST=mail2.kinfolk.org
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)


I have been running Mailman-2.0 on another machine with a similar 
configuration for some time without any problems.

Did I miss something in the documentaion??

--Richard

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[Mailman-Users] htdig integration patches bug fixed (I hope)

[Richard Barrett]

If you use my Mailman/htdig integration patches and are using MM 2.1 final 
you will definitely find the new version of the #444884 patch I have just 
uploaded useful.

This revised patch incorporates a fix for a fairly gross bug in 
$prefix/Mailman/Cgi/htdig.py; don't ask: the embarrassment is too great, My 
test schedule for 2.1 betas and final was badly lacking for this to have 
got through. Apologies to anyone bitten by the problem.

Unhappily the problem was noticed just as the HDD on my test system died 
and it has taken ages to get a replacement drive, install it and get 
everything back to working condition.

While investigating the problem and generating the revised htdig patch for 
2.1 I also found an interaction with a bug in $prefix/scripts/driver for 
which I have posted patch #668685.

For using the MM/htdig integration the patch sequence is now:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=668685&group_id=103&atid=300103

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=661138&group_id=103&atid=300103

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444879&group_id=103&atid=300103

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444884&group_id=103&atid=300103

Again, let me know if you have any problems with these.







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Re: [Mailman-Users] need help with mm-handler contrib

[Richard Barrett]

At 01:01 17/01/2003, Jeff  Schoby wrote:

Hi all, newly converted majordomo heathen here

I -think- I followed the instructions right.however, for some
reason when I create the list in the web interface, the aliases don't
get added to the virtual user table and emails to the new list I create
bounce back as 'user unknown'


The point of mm-handler is that aliases for lists do not have to be added 
to any file. The mm-handler script that is called by sendmail to deliver 
essentially all the mail it receives looks in Mailman's runtime directory 
structure for certain files associated with valid lists to determine 
whether the target mail alias is valid. If it is the mm-handler calls the 
Mailman delivery script.

let me know what info you guys need.  using slackware 8.x with sendmail
and the latest stable mailman, python, and apache


Although I used mm-handler I'm no sendmail expert and expertise with 
sendmail is what I found to be at a premium in getting it working. A couple 
of questions you could look at:

1. Does the mail log being generated by sendmail show that the mm-handler 
mailer is actually being used by sendmail in an attempt to deliver. If not 
then that is your first problem. I found I had to do a bit a lot of 
fiddling to get sendmail set up on my system, including having to hack the 
m4 code that generates the sendmail.cf, before sendmail started calling 
mm-handler.

2. Did you set the $MMWRAPPER and $MMLISTDIR variables in the mm-handler 
perl script that tell it where to find the Mailman's runtime directory 
structure.

You should be aware that the way mm-handler interacts with the mailman 
delivery scripts is inadequate in its error handling and there is a clear 
and present danger of mail being silently dropped on the floor if the 
mailman delivery script fails. This is not good; been their and still got 
the scars from the beating I took as a consequence. The author of the 
mm-handler contrib knows of this and may have developed an enhanced script.

I do not want to bias you but there is an alternative version of this which 
implements the sendmail mailer in Python and is more robust in its error 
handling. This is posted as Mailman patch #644810 (and a precursor patch 
#644797). Patch #644810 includes a file README.SENDMAIL.mailer which may 
help you. It includes information about steps I had to take when getting 
mm-handler working before I decided to do it in Python,


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Help with a regular expression

[Richard Barrett]

At 14:46 18/01/2003, Greg Westin wrote:

I think what you want to do to fix this is add a carat ("^") before the
first slash:
RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo

That way, it only catches it if "/mailman" occurs at the beginning of
the string.

Personally, I use a little more inclusive regular expression, because I
want it to also redirect any requests for the top level
(http://lists.example.com) to the listinfo page:
RewriteRule ^[/]{0,1}(mailman[/]{0,1}){0,1}$/mailman/listinfo
[L,R]


What's wrong with:

RedirectMatch permanent ^/mailman(|/)$ /mailman/listinfo

or, if you have mod_rewrite and the rewrite engine on:

RewriteRule ^/mailman(|/)$ /mailman/listinfo [R,L]

or even better:

RewriteRule ^/mailman(|/)$ /mailman/listinfo [PT]

The latter has the advantage, courtesy of the PT flag, of delivering the 
/mailman/listinfo page immediately instead of making the browser do a 
second request (each time it visits) to follow the redirection response 
produced by the initial request, if that request's URI path was /mailman or 
/mailman/

I claim to be no master of regular expressions, though... because wow
that looks ugly.  That notwithstanding, I think my advice on your
situation is correct.

Greg

On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 02:09  AM, Paul Kleeberg wrote:


I know this is a simple question but I don't have the knowledge to
figure it out.

I am running RedHat 8.0 and which came with Mailman 2.0.13.  It
suggests adding the following to the httpd.conf file:

# Uncomment the following line, replacing www.example.com with your
server's
# name, to redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo page
(recommended).
# RedirectMatch /mailman[/]*$ http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo

That used to work fine.  I just upgraded to Mailman 2.1.  I created
the list "mailman" as instructed at the end of section 4 of the
INSTALL document but cannot get to the administrative page
http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/mailman or the list overview page
http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo/mailman because
"RedirectMatch" thinks it is http://www.example.com/mailman and just
redirects it the top level listinfo page.

I am aware that I have two options:
  1. Rename the "mailman" list
  2. Remove the "RedirectMatch" statement from the httpd.conf file.

Is there a third?  I tried fiddling with the regular expression, but I
just do not know what I am doing.  Any help would be appreciated.

Paul
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Trouble installing Mailman 2.0.13 - List works, Web doesn't. Alittle assist, please?

[Richard Barrett]

At 06:51 21/01/2003, Ghoti wrote:

As the subject indicates, I'm having something of an issue getting the web 
interface to mailman working.

This is my second try with this, and I'm certain this is something quite 
simple, but I'm stymied.

I've followed the instructions to the letter, and even have several 
mailing lists working (I made two test lists, just to repeat the problem).

For the longest time, I was getting 403 errors at all the web links in the 
welcome mailing.

I think I finally got that fixed with the following instructions in 
httpd.conf:

Alias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/arhcives/public/
ScriptAlias /mailman/  /home/mailman/cgi-bin/

  Options ExecCGI
  AllowOverride None
  Allow from from all
  Order allow,deny


Now, however, all web links yeild:

Mailman CGI error!!!
This entry is being stored in your syslog:

Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 65533, GOT gid 72.  (Reconfigure to 
take 72?)

The odd thing is, that's not Mailman's gid:
[root@mydomain root]# cat /etc/group | grep mailman
mailman:x:512:

Group 72 seems to be Apache:
[root@mydonain root]# cat /etc/group | grep 72
apache:x:72:

That makes sense as the Mailman cgi scripts will be run with the group id 
under which your server executes. What value is set by the Group parameter 
in the web server's httpd.conf file; this sets the effective group id which 
the server child processes and its cgi scripts run as.

What am I doing wrong?  I've tried to peruse the archives (that, in fact, 
helped my 403 problem), but neuther Google nor the archives seem to be 
enlightening me that much.

Can anyone lend a hand?  Thanks in advance!

re-run Mailman's ./configure as before and with the --with-cgi-bin 
parameter set to the appropriate value and then re-run make install etc

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Re: [Mailman-Users] htdig integration patches

[Richard Barrett]

Steve

In response to your input I have posted a revised version of patch #444884 
for MM 2.1 on sourceforge as file htdig-2.1-0.3.patch

Thanks for your heads up on the problem and your observation. Sorry for the 
errors. Your suggested change was not quite right; good try but no cigar.:)

I've commented below on the points you raised.

Any further problems or comments with the patch then let me know.

Richard

At 23:41 21/01/2003, Steve Huston wrote:
I've applied the patches, but have had a few problems.  I emailed Richard
Barrett through sourceforge, and don't know if you got it, so I'll start with
what I've figured out since then.

Should line 1485 of htdig-2.1-0.2.patch read "if (not ctype) or cencode:"
instead of reading "if not (ctype and cencode):"?  Because with the way it
was, when I clicked on a found item from a search, it tried to download the
file as type application/octet-stream, but changing it to (not ctype) or
cencode lets it come properly as text/html.  That one took a bit to figure :>


The code is wrong but your solution is not correct. It should read "if not 
(ctype or cencode):" so that application/octet-stream is used when neither 
of the two (1)mime type (2)encoding can be guessed.

There is also another error 3 lines down:

 ctype = "application/x-%s" % ctype

should read:

 ctype = "application/x-%s" % cencode

Sorry about that, I have posted a revised version of the patch 
(htdig-2.1-0.3.patch) with these errors corrected.

Another thing I noticed is that it seems there are quite a few references in
the code to "DEFAULT_URL", but I believe that changed to "DEFAULT_URL_HOST";
setting DEFAULT_URL to the same thing made some of the error messages I'd
received actually work instead of dumping Python (somewhere in make_inserts).


You are correct on this. htdig-2.1-0.3.patch corrects this.


Lastly, I'm a little confused by one way things fit together.  Granted, it
works, but... Why does the htdig script make its results point to itself?  For
example, if I search for 'foo', and find an instance, the URL that the result
points to is "http://host/mailman/htdig/listname/2003-January/06.html";.  I
tried setting HTDIG_ARCHIVE_URL to "/pipermail/" instead to get it to output
the links as "http://host/pipermail/listname/2003-January/06.html";, but
this seemed to have no effect.  Perhaps this works differently than I'm
thinking, but it seems more resource-effective to have the link point right to
the file instead of going through another cgi, when we know the location of
the file we're trying to get.


One of the objectives of this patch was to preserve private archive privacy 
and make changing an archive from private to public or vice-versa a 
non-event from the archive search standpoint. Normally, private archive 
access is mediated by the $prefix/Mailman/Cgi/private.py which is what 
htdig.py was originally derived from. htdig.py does the same for document 
references returned by htsearch. I'm sure there are other ways of handling 
this issue and I might change it if and when I've got the time and energy. 
But as its working after a fashion ...

I attempted to explain this in the INSTALL.htdig-mm file installed by the 
patch:


Introduction


...

3. a common base URL for both public and private archive access via
htsearch results. This means that htdig indices are unaffected by
changing an archive from private to public and vice versa. All
access to archives via htdig is controlled by a wrapped CGI script
called htdig.py.

...

The patch adds:
--

$build/INSTALL.htdig-mm

This file.

$prefix/cgi-bin/htdig
$prefix/Mailman/Cgi/htdig.py

these are a CGI script and its wrapper, which is always on the path
of URLs returned from searches of htdig indices. The script provides
secure access to such URLs in the same way that the
$prefix/cgi-bin/private and $prefix/Mailman/Cgi/private.py. htdig.py
ensures private archives are kept private, applying the same
criteria for permitting access as private.py, and delivering
material from public archives without demanding any authentication.





Please, call me an idiot, and explain why :>

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Re: [Mailman-Users] htdig integration patches

[Richard Barrett]

Todd

It would help to know which version of the patch file you are using and 
where you got it from.

I have grep'ed my copies of the various versions of my htdig patch file and 
cannot find a line that reads as you assert yours does; see the grep 
results below.

There are three lines containing the string "(os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff" 
in the various 2.1 patch files: one each for the scripts nightly_htdig, 
remote_nightly_htdig and remote_nightly_htdig_noshare.

But I cannot see the assignment your copy of nightly_htdig is said to contain.

It would appear to be that the file added by the patch has been "corrupted" 
somehow.

I'd suggest download a new copy of the latest version of the patch.

If I can be of further assistance then let me know.

Richard

mailman@mailman2:/mailman/build/patches> find . -name "htdig*.patch" | 
xargs grep "(os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff"
./current/htdig-2.1-0.3.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./current/htdig-2.1-0.3.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./current/htdig-2.1-0.3.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b3-0.2.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b3-0.2.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b3-0.2.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b3-0.3.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b3-0.3.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b3-0.3.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b3-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b3-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b3-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b4-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b4-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b4-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b5-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b5-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b5-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b6-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b6-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1b6-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1rc1-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1rc1-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1rc1-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1-0.1.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1-0.2.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1-0.2.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
./old/htdig-2.1-0.2.patch:+status = (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
mailman@mailman2:/mailman/build/patches>


At 15:21 22/01/2003, Todd C. Miller wrote:
I also get the following error from nightly_htdig:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/cron/nightly_htdig", line 153, in ?
main()
  File "/var/mailman/cron/nightly_htdig", line 138, in main
if status:
NameError: global name 'status' is not defined

Which corresponds to the code:

dUmMy= (os.system(cmd) >> 8) & 0xff
if status:
print _('rundig failed for list %(name)s, exit code: %(status)s')

It seems like "dUmMy" should be replaced by "status".

 - todd



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Re: [Mailman-Users] htdig integration patches

[Richard Barrett]

At 16:21 22/01/2003, Todd C. Miller wrote:

After a bit of head scratching I have tracked the problem down to
privoxy (a filtering, ad-blocking proxy).  It has the following
rule in its default config:

# The status bar is for displaying link targets, not pointless blahblah
#
s/([\n =;{}]|window\.)(default)?status\s*=/$1dUmMy=/ig

which is where the dUmMy bits were coming from.

 - todd


I assume this proxy sites between your web browser and the world.

Looks like an accident waiting to happen if that regex and similar is run 
without any further qualification against the content of every response 
received to an HTTP reqeust on your machine.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] New installation, sol 7: ImportError: No module named _socket

[Richard Barrett]

At 15:18 24/01/2003, Stoyan Angelov wrote:

hello all,

i am trying to do a new install of Mailman 2.1 on a Solaris 7 x86 box,
gcc 2.95.2, Python 2.2.2, sendmail. I get the following error while
runnig the ./configure script:


hecking for mail wrapper group; i.e. --with-mail-gid... mail
checking for CGI wrapper group; i.e. --with-cgi-gid... httpd
checking for CGI extensions... no
checking for --with-mailhost... no
checking for --with-urlhost... no
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "conftest.py", line 2, in ?
from socket import *
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/socket.py", line 41, in ?
from _socket import *
ImportError: No module named _socket
checking for default mail host name... Can't open conftest.out


Look like a python installation problem rather than a Mailman specific 
problem. The python interpreter is saying it cannot correctly load the 
standard python socket module.

You can confirm this hypothesis by running python from the command line as 
follows:

mailman@mailman:/> python
Python 2.2.2 (#2, Jan 13 2003, 17:17:19)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (SuSE)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import socket
>>>

If instead of the prompt you get an error message in response to import 
socket input, then it is definitely a python installation problem. Try 
again with Mailman after you have fixed the python problem.

checking for default URL host component... Can't open conftest.out

checking for strerror... yes
checking for setregid... yes
checking for syslog... yes


trying to do a make install gives me the following error:


Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py ...
Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/update", line 47, in ?
from Mailman import Utils
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 35, in ?
import cgi
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/cgi.py", line 39, in ?
import urllib
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/urllib.py", line 26, in ?
import socket
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/socket.py", line 41, in ?
from _socket import *
ImportError: No module named _socket
make: *** [update] Error 1


does anyone have an idea of what could that be ?

thank you for your time!

Stoyan Angelov



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[Mailman-Users] Another feature request

[Richard Pyne]

It might be there, but I haven't found it. It would be VERY useful to 
have "per domain" list creation passwords. I want to be able to have 
a virtual domain owner be able to create lists within their domain 
but not any others.

--Richard

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Re: [Mailman-Users] domain restriction or wish list

[Richard Barrett]

At 16:22 24/01/2003, Dave  Stern - Former Rocket Scientist wrote:

Is it possible to have a list that's only partially restricted?
Specifically, I'd like a list that only people within our domain
could post to.

If this is not possible, then consider this for the next iteration
of the mailman v2.x wishlist



 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  generated by /dev/dave 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 David SternUniversity of 
Maryland
Institute for Advanced Computer Studies


Setting about this rather depends on whether acceptable and unacceptable 
posters are going to be members or non-members of the list.

I would think that a judicious regex in one of the 
hold/discard/reject_these_nonmembers field on the web
Privacy Options->[Sender filters] page could partially solve the problem:

For instance, I think this regex will only match, and hence cause to 
discard, mail from non-members whose addresses in domains other than 
'your.domain.com':

^.*?@(?!your\.domain\.com$)'

But this would still allow posting by members of the list who are from 
outside 'your.domain.com', which might also want to achieve.

Setting moderation for those not-in-your-domain-but-members-of-the-list to 
On and setting member_moderation_action to hold/discard/reject should allow 
a list which can have a mixed population but can only be posted to by 
people in your domain, whether they are members or not.




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[Mailman-Users] interface outside of the mailman directory

[Richard Plotkin]

Hi list,

I was wondering if you could help me solve a development problem.  I'm 
trying to incorporate my Mailman lists into a dynamic website, and so I 
want to be able to lay out the interface in my own special way, but 
still have the pages call the info from Mailman.  I know I could 
normally adjust the Mailman templates to get them to look the way I 
want, but in this case that will not work.  Is there a way to interface 
with mailman, cutting and pasting the source of its forms to other 
directories on my web server?

Thanks,
Richard


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Multiple messages

[Richard Barrett]

At 14:12 29/01/2003, Tom wrote:

Simon White wrote:

>29-Jan-03 at 12:26, Tom ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote :
>
>
>>Hi All,
>>
>>I've had a quick search thru the list archives and can't find any
>>problems that exactly match mine.
>>
>>Basically, any emails from a company 'N' to one of our lists cause
>>duplicate messages.  It always seems to be 11 copies for some reason.
>>All the message ids are the same, only one message appears in the
>>archives, and the other members at 'N' only receive one copy.
>>
>>I'm using sendmail 8.11.6 and Mailman 2.0.11, but this problem has been
>>ocurring since 'N' was given a list they could send to, and that was
>>quite a few versions ago.
>>
>>There isn't anything particularly odd about the messages (they are also
>>CCd directly to myself so I know it isn't chopping anything off)
>>
>>Any ideas on how I can troubleshoot this?
>>
>>
>
>What happens in the sendmail logs when the mail is injected? e.g. is it
>sendmail that is creating dupes or mailman?
>
>
I may have been misleading - I'm not sure that sendmail has anything to
do with it really.  The mail gets to sendmail on the list server, there
are two entries there, one saying from xxx@N and one showing it being
piped to mailman/mail/wrapper post list

A few seconds later this shows up in the mailman smtp log
Jan 29 10:13:01 2003 (4859) smtp for 112 recips, completed in 0.315 seconds

After that point I have no knowledge as mailman is using an SMTPHOST (at
our internet provider) which I believe is exim but I don't know the version.


Just a suggestion but I'd be inclined to have Mailman handoff outgoing mail 
to your local sendmail instance using SMTP, with your local sendmail 
instance set up to relay mail outgoing mail from your domain to your ISP's 
MTA.

This has a couple of advantages. You can see the handoff to the external 
MTA in your sendmail logs and be much clearer about where problems are 
likely to be occurring. You've also got better "evidence" of what is 
happening if you need to discuss a problem with your ISP's support staff.

It also means that your local sendmail instance can look after the handoff 
from inside to outside your domain; sendmail is better suited to this task 
(IMHO) than Mailman. Certainly, I've found Mailman can be a bit too 
aggressive in retrying the handoff to a non-local MTA if that MTA is having 
any difficulties in accepting mail. This might, or might not, be the cause 
of these duplications occurring.

Once the mail comes back to our main mail server (Groupwise), the logs
show one incoming message from the list admin to each local member of
the list, which I guess is what you would expect.

>Are you on the list, and do you receive the 11 copies? Or is it really a
>screwed MTA somewhere else that is perhaps being strange?
>
>
>
I'm on the list and I get 11 copies (not including the one CCd directly
to me).  The strange thing is that messages sent directly from people at
"N" work fine.  Messages sent to the list from anyone else work fine.
 And after a bit of digging it seems that not all the recipients do get
11 copies, although I haven't been able to find a correlation between
those that do and those that don't - though it does seem to be a per
site rather than per person basis.

Hope that makes sense,

Thanks!
Tom





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Re: [Mailman-Users] archive and .htaccess

[Richard Barrett]

At 18:21 29/01/2003, Simon White wrote:

29-Jan-03 at 12:11, Justin Georgeson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote :
> Aha! I just noticed that the archive link from
>
> https:///mailman/listinfo//
>
> is
>
> http:///pipermail//
>
> This may seem odd, and I'd rather not go into detail, but
> http:// and https:// are different VirtualHost
> configurations in my Apache installation. If I type in the same archive
> URL with a https it works. I saw a post in the archives of this list
> (mailman-users) earlier this month which seemed to be a similar
> situation: the URL's are not consistent. Any idea how I correct this?
> The DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN variable in /var/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py is
> set correctly (https://%s/mailman/).


The link to a list on the page generated by £prefix/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py 
is determined by each list's web_page_url attribute. The value of this 
attribute is normally set when the list is created and is based to 
DEFAULT_URL or DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN combined with DEFAULT_URL_HOST or 
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN values at that time. Another list attribute set at the 
same time is it's host_name attribute which  is set to DEFAULT_HOST_NAME 
(or DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST if DEFAULT_HOST_NAME  is not defined). This is used 
in setting the link to the archives on the page returned by the 
/listinfo/ URI.

If you want to change these list attributes for a given list then 
£prefix/bin/withlist is your friend. The standard MM 2.1 distribution has 
the $prefix/bin/fix_url.py script wto be used in conjunction with 
£prefix/bin/withlist to reset a list's web_page_url and host_name. The 
values to which web_page_url and host_name are set by fix_url.py depend on 
the then current default MM parameters set in $prefix/Mailman/Defaults.py 
and $prefix/Mailman/mm_cfg.py and the options you put on the command line 
when running fix_url. See the code in fix_url.py for deatils; python is 
quite easy to read.

Interesting... I just made a similar change and I'm hoping it's going to
work. Maybe it won't *shrug*

My next thought is to use Apache to rewrite the urls. It can be done,
but it should be consistent in Mailman in the first place. Anyone?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Pending messages waiting for approval - where?

[Richard Barrett]

At 20:19 29/01/2003, Marc Perkel wrote:

Where are the pending messages stored?



For MM 2.1, try looking in £prefix/data



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't admin pending messages

[Richard Barrett]

At 19:44 29/01/2003, Marc Perkel wrote:

I think it was working and quit. I upgraded to Mailman 2.1 and I can't 
admin pending messages. It shows the pending messages with the choices - 
but if I select to approve, reject, or discard - nothing happens after I 
click submit. The same messages are still there and still pending.

What am I doing wrong?

Anything showing in Mailman error (or other) logs?

Are your ermissions OK. Did you run $bin/check_perms -f after upgrading?


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Tru64 and mailman

[Richard Barrett]

At 21:07 29/01/2003, jsingh wrote:

Hey guys
   I wanted to know if any has been successfully running mailman on a
Compaq Tru64 machine. My boss just asked me to move over the entire
project on a tru64 machine?
Thanks
jack



If its runningTru64 UNIX and has/you-can-install Python the answer is 
almost certainly yes.

http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/affinity/affinitywp.pdf lists python in 
Appendix: Software Lists -> Internet Express V5.6 Open Source Software

http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/demos/ossc-v51a/html/README.htm contains a 
ref to "python-2.0 an interpreted object-oriented programming language"


Looks good




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Re: [Mailman-Users] archive and .htaccess

[Richard Barrett]

At 00:30 30/01/2003, Justin Georgeson wrote:



Richard Barrett wrote:

At 18:21 29/01/2003, Simon White wrote:


29-Jan-03 at 12:11, Justin Georgeson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote :
> Aha! I just noticed that the archive link from
>
> https:///mailman/listinfo//
>
> is
>
> http:///pipermail//
>
> This may seem odd, and I'd rather not go into detail, but
> http:// and https:// are different VirtualHost
> configurations in my Apache installation. If I type in the same archive
> URL with a https it works. I saw a post in the archives of this list
> (mailman-users) earlier this month which seemed to be a similar
> situation: the URL's are not consistent. Any idea how I correct this?
> The DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN variable in /var/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py is
> set correctly (https://%s/mailman/).


The link to a list on the page generated by 
prefix/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py is determined by each list's web_page_url 
attribute. The value of this attribute is normally set when the list is 
created and is based to DEFAULT_URL or DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN combined with 
DEFAULT_URL_HOST or DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN values at that time. Another list 
attribute set at the same time is it's host_name attribute which  is set 
to DEFAULT_HOST_NAME (or DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST if DEFAULT_HOST_NAME  is not 
defined). This is used in setting the link to the archives on the page 
returned by the /listinfo/ URI.

Every other link works so far. Only the archive link is wrong.

I just set DEFAULT_URL and DEFAULT_HOST_NAME in 
$prefix/Mailman/Defaults.py. DEFAULT_HOST_NAME has the same value as 
DEFAULT_URL_HOST. DEFAULT_URL has the value of DEFAULT_HOST_NAME with 
https:// in front of it (can I use %s there instead, like 
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN?). That didn't help.

If you want to change these list attributes for a given list then 
prefix/bin/withlist is your friend. The standard MM 2.1 distribution

I want to have the defaults set such that I don't have to run 
withlist/fix_url every time I create a list. I have one host that the 
lists are serverd off of, and I want all the links to be https instead of 
http. (Everything in the MailMan web interface should be viewed from 
https://myserver.unboundtech.com/...)

has the $prefix/bin/fix_url.py script wto be used in conjunction with 
prefix/bin/withlist to reset a list's web_page_url and host_name. The 
values to which web_page_url and host_name are set by fix_url.py depend 
on the then current default MM parameters set in 
$prefix/Mailman/Defaults.py and $prefix/Mailman/mm_cfg.py and the options 
you put on the command line when running fix_url. See the code

Given that setting those two didn't fix my existing test list, I tried 
creating a second test list. I still have the same problem. Every link 
except the Archive link works.

Should I interpret this as a bug, or am I still doing something wrong. I 
don't think I should have to manually patch every list I create just 
because I'm using an https server for the web interface.

Looks like the URL is generated by the GetBaseArchiveURL function in 
$prefix/Mailman/Archive/Archiver.py which bases it on the config variable 
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL. Learn something new every day.


in fix_url.py for deatils; python is quite easy to read.


Indeed it is, once you get past the lack of statement delimiters and the 
fact that indentation level determintes scope. :)

Interesting... I just made a similar change and I'm hoping it's going to
work. Maybe it won't *shrug*

My next thought is to use Apache to rewrite the urls. It can be done,
but it should be consistent in Mailman in the first place. Anyone?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1 list creation

[Richard Barrett]

At 21:51 29/01/2003, Jon Carnes wrote:

If you can get shell access to the server you can use the
~mailman/bin/genaliases command to generate the aliases for your created
lists.  You could simply redirect the output of that command into a
local aliases file and then include that aliases file in your MTA's list
of aliases that it checks.

Jon Carnes



If the MTA is sendmail then there is an option of using a sendmail mailer 
to deliver to Mailman, if the only mail aliases on the server are the small 
number of standard local aliases, e.g. postmaster, and those for Mailman 
lists. If the machine is also hosting aliases for individual users then 
forget I posted this.

MM 2.1 has the mm-handler contrib which is a sendmail mailer implemented in 
Perl. There is also a Python implementation available which I have posted 
as MM patch #644810 on sourceforge. Note that the Perl contrib isn't 
entirely bullet-proof, unless the author has recently fixed an issue I 
raised a while back.

Using these sendmail mailers can completely eliminate maintenance of mail 
aliases on a list server. Create the list with MM through the web GUI and 
its ready to go. The downside is some hassle getting sendmail setup right 
and I wouldn't rate this as a job for a sendmail novice unless he is a 
persistent one like me. But once that is done, no alias maintenance hassle.

I started out using the Perl contrib (originally with my own modifications 
to work with MM 2.0.13 rather than 2.1) but now use the Python version on a 
dedicated list server machine and its backup, which are currently hosting 
over 450 fairly lightly loaded lists. The list population is fairly dynamic 
and the use of the sendmail mailer works well for me.

On Wed, 2003-01-29 at 06:24, Will Nordmeyer wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm using mailman 2.1 on a Cobalt RAQ3 and trying to use the web
> interface to create a list.
>
> It creates the list, but doesn't add any entries to either the aliases
> file or the virtusertable.  It also doesn't provide a list of what
> entries need to be added.
>
> It doesn't seem that I have everything configured right but don't see
> anything in the INSTALL doc about the settings.
>
> Can someone help please?




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Re: [Mailman-Users] Disabling VERP

[Richard Barrett]

At 00:08 04/02/2003, Tom Maddox wrote:

So, is it possible to disable the VERP functionality in some fashion?  My
users would prefer to have regular From: and Reply-to: headers, not the
irritating VERP ones.  I'm hesitant to make changes to the VERP_FORMAT and
VERP_REGEXP lines in mm_cfg.py without knowing precisely what effect doing
so will have, plus I'm not entirely sure that those are the lines I should
be changing.

TIA,

Tom

Tom Maddox, BOFH, SCSA, MCSE (it hurts!)
There, Inc. 




You shouldn't need to change VERP_FORMAT and VERP_REGEXP to disable VERP'ing

The following variables should disable VERP'ed return addresses:

VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = 0
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = 0
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = 0

If these are set so (installation default ??) then your users shouldn't be 
seeing VERP'ed return addresses


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RE: [Mailman-Users] Disabling VERP

[Richard Barrett]

At 18:13 04/02/2003, Tom Maddox wrote:

> At 00:08 04/02/2003, Tom Maddox wrote:
> >So, is it possible to disable the VERP functionality in some fashion?  My
> >users would prefer to have regular From: and Reply-to: headers, not the
> >irritating VERP ones.  I'm hesitant to make changes to the
> VERP_FORMAT and
> >VERP_REGEXP lines in mm_cfg.py without knowing precisely what
> effect doing
> >so will have, plus I'm not entirely sure that those are the
> lines I should
> >be changing.
> >
> >TIA,
> >
> >Tom

> You shouldn't need to change VERP_FORMAT and VERP_REGEXP to
> disable VERP'ing
>
> The following variables should disable VERP'ed return addresses:
>
> VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = 0
> VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = 0
> VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0
> VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = 0
>
> If these are set so (installation default ??) then your users
> shouldn't be
> seeing VERP'ed return addresses

Good theory, but sadly false.  I didn't configure anything special when I
upgraded to 2.1, and I'm getting the VERP headers.




Odd because this is exactly the setup I have with MM 2.1 and Mailman does 
not send out VERP'ed return address. But it did for a period when I set 
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 to evaluate the performance impact of VERP'ing 
(and flush out a few irritating untraceable bouncing mail addresses). When 
I changed back to VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0, return addresses stopped 
being VERP'ed and the outgoing mail started being chunked again.


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RE: [Mailman-Users] Disabling VERP

[Richard Barrett]

At 22:42 04/02/2003, Tom Maddox wrote:

> > I tried twiddling the VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL setting, but it made no
> > difference.
>
> Hey Tom... a couple of questions (forgive me if they sound silly, or if
> they've already been asked):
>
> 1) Are you changing ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py--not
> ~mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py? (and if you're changing Defaults.py, you may
> want to check mm_cfg.py... however, in practice you really don't want to
> muck with Defaults.py...)

Yep, I'm changing mm_cfg.py.

> 1) Have you stopped & restarted Apache? (apachectl stop && apachectl
> start(ssl))
>
> 2) Have you stopped & restarted mailman? (mailmanctl restart)

No and no.  I thought that the Python code got run each time a new message
was received.  If that's not the case, that may explain part of my problem.


A Mailman delivery script is run by the MTA to deliver each post to 
Mailman. This just sticks the message in queue for further processing.

In MM 2.1 the $prefix/bin/mailmanctl script starts a daemon which takes 
incoming posts from the queue and eventually sends out the copies of the 
posted message to the subscribers.

With MM 2.1, if you change $prefix/Mailman/mm_cfg.py, you need to run the 
command '$prefix/bin/mailmanctl restart' to get the daemon to take notice 
of the changes in mm_cfg.

This is in contrast to MM 2.0 .x where it wasn't a daemon that did the real 
stuff but a script that was run regularly by cron. With that arrangement, 
the next invocation of the script picked up any changes in mm_cfg without 
you having to do anything.


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RE: [Mailman-Users] Disabling VERP

[Richard Barrett]

At 22:02 04/02/2003, Tom Maddox wrote:

> > > >So, is it possible to disable the VERP functionality in some
> fashion?  My
> > > >users would prefer to have regular From: and Reply-to:
> headers, not the
> > > >irritating VERP ones.  I'm hesitant to make changes to the
> > > VERP_FORMAT and
> > > >VERP_REGEXP lines in mm_cfg.py without knowing precisely what
> > > effect doing
> > > >so will have, plus I'm not entirely sure that those are the
> > > lines I should
> > > >be changing.
> > > >
> > > >TIA,
> > > >
> > > >Tom
> >
> > > You shouldn't need to change VERP_FORMAT and VERP_REGEXP to
> > > disable VERP'ing
> > >
> > > The following variables should disable VERP'ed return addresses:
> > >
> > > VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = 0
> > > VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = 0
> > > VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0
> > > VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = 0
> > >
> > > If these are set so (installation default ??) then your users
> > > shouldn't be
> > > seeing VERP'ed return addresses
> >
> >Good theory, but sadly false.  I didn't configure anything special when I
> >upgraded to 2.1, and I'm getting the VERP headers.
> >
>
>
> Odd because this is exactly the setup I have with MM 2.1 and Mailman does
> not send out VERP'ed return address. But it did for a period when I set
> VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 to evaluate the performance impact of VERP'ing
> (and flush out a few irritating untraceable bouncing mail
> addresses). When
> I changed back to VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0, return addresses stopped
> being VERP'ed and the outgoing mail started being chunked again.

I tried twiddling the VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL setting, but it made no
difference.


It looks like the code that initiates VERP'ed return addresses is in 
$prefix/Mailman/Handlers/ToOutgoing.py and is enacted in 
$prefix/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py.

I cannot see anything in those modules that would lead to VERP'ing without 
one of the appropriate variable being true.

What exactly is being logged by your SMTP host for the messages which your 
users complain of?


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RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Security.

[Richard Barrett]

At 11:44 05/02/2003, dino wrote:

Actually he did it this way:

Noticed that mydomain/mailman was browsable.


What additions did you make to your server's httpd.conf to support running 
mailman

Telneted to port 80 and sent a get request from there...ouch.


In effect like every other request to your server.


Sorting that now


Re the telnet thing, there is nothing to sort as regards using a telnet 
client to connect to a HTTP server.

But, if you are saying you run a telnet server exposed to the internet on 
you server, you really should consider switching to running SSH and cease 
and desist the telnet server.

This problem is likely to be due to poor setup of your httpd.conf.

Dino

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
John Buttery
Sent: 05 February 2003 11:27
To: 'Mailman users Mailing list'
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Security.


* dino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-02-05 10:32:16 -]:
> I was just wondering what kind of security mailman offers, as far as
> protecting user passwords goes?

  Pretty much none.  It emails them cleartext once a month, for
starters.  The list signup page explicitly instructs subscribers not to
use important passwords (even in bold!).  The intent of the password
system in Mailman (this is my interpretation, not backed up with any
actual information) is to protect against malicious [un]subscriptions of
others by casual idiots on the Net, not against determined attackers.
> A techy friend of mine has just kindly emailed me a list of all users
> and their passwords! Looking at my server logs it would appear that he

> snuck in somehow via anonymous ftp.


If your httpd server and httpd.conf setup is sound then it should not be 
possible to access the files storing MM's user passwords via the HTTP server.

If you've got a insecure ftp setup on your server then anything is possible 
and God or the devil will surely punish you.

  Then you have an incorrectly installed/configured/patched ftp server
problem, not a mailman problem.  :)

> Would closing the anon. ftp service stop mailman working in anyway, or

> dya reckon he got in some place else?

  I don't see why stopping an ftpd would affect mailman...

--

 John Buttery
 (Web page temporarily unavailable)




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RE: [Mailman-Users] Disabling VERP

[Richard Barrett]

Tom

I think there is some confusion here about what is meant by VERP'ed address.

In MM 2.0.x outgoing mail from lists came from the 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] alias.

With MM 2.1 outgoing mail from lists normally comes from the 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] alias.

This isn't VERP'ed mail. It is just a change in originator alias which goes 
along with some other changes aimed at improving the subsequent handling of 
any outbound email from Mailman that bounces.

From your mail log it doesn't appear that the outgoing mail from your 
system is being VERP'ed.

With VERP'ing each outgoing mail is specific to the destination email 
address and encodes that destination in the originator email alias. So, for 
instance, mail to me from a list would be from 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Note 
how my email address of [EMAIL PROTECTED] is encoded in that 
originator email alias.

The purpose of Verp'ing is to deal with the situation where mail to someone 
passes through a MTA that rewrites the destination and that subsequently 
bounces. Without VERP'ing the message sent back to mailman has lost the 
original destination. Mailman only sees the rewritten destination in the 
returned mail and cannot correlate that with any known subscriber of the 
list and hence handle the bounce appropriately. With a VERP'ed sender the 
original destination is embedded in the address to which the bounced email 
is returned. Thus regardless of re-writing of the destination of mail going 
out, if it is returned Mailman can reliably identify the subscriber whose 
mail is being bounced.

Does that resolve the problem for you?

Regards

Richard

btw: There would normally be a minimum of four entries in a sendmail log 
associated with a message posted to a list if the Mailman local sendmail 
instance is alos the SMTP server being used to handle the outgoing mail (I 
cannot speak to other MTAs as I do not use them):

1. a 'from' entry for the message being received by the Mailman-local 
sendmail instance from some other, relaying, MTA

2. a 'to' entry for sendmail delivering the message to Mailman. This will 
have the same message identifier string as 'from' entry (1)

3, a 'from' entry for sendmail sending the posting out to one or more 
subscribers. There may be several of these depending on the number of 
different domains the outgoing mail is being sent to, the number of list 
subscribers and othe factors. If VERP'ing is being applied there will be 
one of these entries for each list subscriber.

4. 'to' entries having the same message identifier string(s) as the 'from' 
entries (3) for each transfer of the outgoing mail to some other, relaying, MTA

If you have the patience and access you can track mail from source to 
destination by matching the seemingly random identifier strings. Its pretty 
much a 100% audit trail for all mail that flows. Take a look at the full 
headers of this eamil when you get it and you can see how it got from me to 
you.

The Mailman post and smtp logs will have entires that tie in with those in 
the sendmail logs.

At 19:08 05/02/2003, Tom Maddox wrote:


> It looks like the code that initiates VERP'ed return addresses is in
> $prefix/Mailman/Handlers/ToOutgoing.py and is enacted in
> $prefix/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py.
>
> I cannot see anything in those modules that would lead to
> VERP'ing without
> one of the appropriate variable being true.
>
> What exactly is being logged by your SMTP host for the messages
> which your
> users complain of?

It looks like two messages get logged by sendmail for a given email:

Feb  5 10:55:46 mail2 sm-mta[49256]: h15Itjct049253:
to="|/local/mailman/mail/ma
ilman post listname", ctladdr=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (26/0), delay=00:00:01,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30914, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

Followed by:

Feb  5 10:55:47 mail2 sm-mta[49261]: h15Itlct049261:
from=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, size=1694, class=-30, nrcpts=10,
msgid=, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]

In that same time-frame, the following message appears in Mailman's "post"
log:

Feb 05 10:55:48 2003 (41415) post to listname from [EMAIL PROTECTED]
om, size=1694, success

So, before Mailman posts the message to the list, it's already rewritten the
header of the message to appear to be from the "-bounces" address.

Does that shed any light on the issue?

Thanks,

Tom



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RE: [Mailman-Users] Disabling VERP

[Richard Barrett]

At 23:18 05/02/2003, Tom Maddox wrote:

> Tom
>
> I think there is some confusion here about what is meant by
> VERP'ed address.

Evidently, you are correct. :-/

So, that's not my problem, then, but my problem remains unresolved.  In a
nutshell, here's what I'm observing:

Prior to my "upgrade" (oh, bitter irony!) to Mailman 2.1, mail sent via a
list had the following characteristics:

From: User Name [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:   depending on list setting

Now, the mail looks like:

From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of User Name [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:  


Tom

I'm not that familiar with Outlook but it seems to me that is where the 
problem lies.

Mail I receive from Mailman lists such is the email I am responding to is 
displayed by Eudora (which I am running on Win 2k in Sponsored mode at zero 
cost) with your email address as From because your email address is the 
value of the From header, If I expand the headers, I can see that the 
Return-Path header's value is 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> because 
this (mailman-users) list is using personalized delivery with VERP'ing.

It seems from what you describe that Outlook is determined to display as 
From some cack-handed combination of the From and the Reply-Path headers. 
The Reply-To:   bit is pure fiction; no Reply-To header in the 
message so Outlook makes one up!!  Is this behaviour by Outlook some sort 
of configurable option?? Or is it just the trolls at Microsoft 
demonstrating their idosyncratic capacity to f*** up anything they turn 
their hand to in an effort to prove that Bill-dom is the future??,

I do not mean to be rude to you but maybe some other subscriber has the 
knowledge to better advise you with this matter. I'm afraid my appetite for 
dealing with Microsoft idosyncracies/arrogance is pretty limited and I get 
enough of it doing user support in my paid job. Hope you find a good solution.

Regards

Richard

Additionally, sometimes Outlook will insert the "short description" of the
list into the To: field when replying, but I'm willing to believe that's a
bug in Outlook.

My users don't like the new From: format, and I am trying to get it back to
the way it was, which seems like such a small and simple thing to do but
evidently is not.  Also, getting rid of the text attachments in Outlook when
the footer has a different character set than the message body (also due to
a new "feature" introduced in 2.1) would be delightful.

Thanks for your time and patience,

Tom



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[Mailman-Users] Outlook issue? (was Disabling VERP)

[Richard Barrett]

This looks as though there may be a compatibility problem between mail 
coming from Mailman and way the Outlook MUA displays it that is worse with 
MM 2.1 than with MM 2.0.x.

Anyone out there with experience of Microsoft products that can explain 
what's described below and how to correct it?


> Tom
>
> I think there is some confusion here about what is meant by
> VERP'ed address.

Evidently, you are correct. :-/

So, that's not my problem, then, but my problem remains unresolved.  In a
nutshell, here's what I'm observing:

Prior to my "upgrade" (oh, bitter irony!) to Mailman 2.1, mail sent via a
list had the following characteristics:

From: User Name [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:   depending on list setting

Now, the mail looks like:

From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of User Name [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:  

Additionally, sometimes Outlook will insert the "short description" of the
list into the To: field when replying, but I'm willing to believe that's a
bug in Outlook.

My users don't like the new From: format, and I am trying to get it back to
the way it was, which seems like such a small and simple thing to do but
evidently is not.  Also, getting rid of the text attachments in Outlook when
the footer has a different character set than the message body (also due to
a new "feature" introduced in 2.1) would be delightful.

Thanks for your time and patience,

Tom



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Disabling VERP

[Richard Barrett]

At 09:25 07/02/2003, Simon White wrote:

07-Feb-03 at 01:58, Barry A. Warsaw ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote :
> TM> My users don't like the new From: format, and I am trying to
> TM> get it back to the way it was, which seems like such a small
> TM> and simple thing to do but evidently is not.  Also, getting


Against my better judgement, I had a look at the issue of what some FUMUA's 
from MS display on their GUI as the "From" field.

One of my users has Outlook 2002 on his machine and I looked at some 
messages he has that have passed through our list management system under 
MM 2.0.x, MM 2.1 no-VERP and MM 2.1 with-VERP.

It appears that Outlook 2002 conflates either of the values of the Sender 
or Return-path headers (both being the same, I couldn't determine which is 
was taking) with the value of the From header and displays that in the From 
field of its GUI for the user's benefit.

Nowhere on Outlook 2002's GUI interface, could I find a way of changing its 
behaviour in regards to what it displays in the From field of its GUI. 
Maybe it can be done by hacking the registry or some other means but I'm 
not that keen to solve the problem that I'll step into that tar pit.

The only difference I could see between messages distributed by MM 2.0.x 
versus MM 2.1 are the changes from the -admin to -bounces suffix in the 
Sender/Return-path header value that Outlook 2002 conflates into what it 
displays in its GUI From field. If MM 2.1 was set to VERP outgoing messages 
then what is conflated from Sender/Return-path into the From display field 
is just that much more verbose. But the display field From was always of 
the form:

From  on behalf of 

for any mail where the Sender and From headers were not the same; which 
just happens to be the case for all mail sent out by both 2.0.x and 2.1 
versions of Mailman.

Note that Outlook 2002 will present a dialogue window that shows the 
_actual_ mail headers for an email but it is manipulating what it normally 
shows the user in its GUI From field.

Looking at another user's system, where he is using Outlook Express 6, 
rather than Outlook 2002 (only the names are nearly the same to protect the 
guilty), I found that Outlook was unaffected by the MM 2.0.x to MM 2.1 list 
suffix changes and use/non-use of VERP'ing, because it just displays the 
value of the From header in its GUI From field.

The post to this list at 23:18 05/02/2003, by Tom Maddox that set this hare 
running said:

Prior to my "upgrade" (oh, bitter irony!) to Mailman 2.1, mail sent via a
list had the following characteristics:

From: User Name [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:   depending on list setting

Now, the mail looks like:

From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of User Name [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:  

Additionally, sometimes Outlook will insert the "short description" of the
list into the To: field when replying, but I'm willing to believe that's a
bug in Outlook.


This implied a change caused solely by the change from -admin to -bounces 
alias suffix in the Sender/Return-path headers on e-mail from Mailman. But 
I could not reproduce that with either Outlook 2002 or Outlook Express 6.

Go figure.

btw: I found some references to this problem being raised previously when I 
did a google search. For instance :

http://www.kanga.nu/archives/Meta-L/2001Q3/msg00025.php

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2001-April/008503.html

From the post at kanga.nu it looks as though this Outlook behaviour was 
introduced by the release of a new and exciting version of Outlook loaded 
with interesting new features.

Always remember, if it ain't broke it ain't Microsoft.


> TM> rid of the text attachments in Outlook when the footer has a
> TM> different character set than the message body (also due to a
> TM> new "feature" introduced in 2.1) would be delightful.
>
> ...this is an Outlook problem.  I tested this with my colleague Tim
> Peters, Window user extraordinare and even with Content-Disposition:
> inline clues, Outlook[*] still insists on displaying them as
> attachments.  Standards are for other people, I guess.
>
> Next time I see him, I'll try to convince Tim to subscribe to a
> personalized list and look over his shoulder while he views the
> messages.

I have seen too much software with specific Outlook / OE requirements
and workarounds. It is sickening.

Outlook / Outlook Express are *not* mail user agents (MUAs) they are
pseudo-mail unaware-user agents (PMUUA, kinda like the noise horrid
tasting food makes when I spit it back out).

Sadly changing MUAs is not a possibility for a lot of people, and some
people thing Outlook Expressly-made-to-annoy *is* email.

I will never lose the energy to keep telling people to run PC-PINE,
Eudora, Mulberry, Pegasus, or something else (even a webmail app). The
best argument is simple - you will get 95% less viruses JUST by changing
your mail application.

Regards,

--

Re: [Mailman-Users] List variables

[Richard Barrett]

Try something like the following on the command line might get you started:

mailman@mailman2:/mailman/run> bin/config_list -o /tmp/mmconf.txt rbtest
mailman@mailman2:/mailman/run> python
Python 2.2.2 (#2, Jan 13 2003, 17:17:19)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (SuSE)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> st = {}
>>> execfile('/tmp/mmconf.txt', st)
>>> st.keys() # generate a list of list attribs + a little junk

When I've got a few minutes I'll tidy the idea up and put it in the FAQ.

At 00:20 08/02/2003, Jon Carnes wrote:

This isn't in the FAQ, so if you stumle across it, it would be great if
you would add an entry to the FAQ or to this list.

This is someone's chance at fame and fortune in the world of Open
Source!

Cheers - Jon Carnes

On Fri, 2003-02-07 at 11:11, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> Is there a simple list somewhere of all the MM list variables (e.g.
> real_name) that can be used when editing the HTLM for public list pages?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Jim P.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Trouble getting htdig to work

[Richard Barrett]

At 16:53 08/02/2003, Paul Kleeberg wrote:

I am attempting to get htdig to work on a RedHat 8.0 system with Apache 
2.0, htdig 3.2.0 and Mailman 2.1

I installed the 4 patches (668685, 661138, 444879 & 444884) to Mailman 2.1 
to create the searchable archives for Mailman with htdig, and then 
reinstalled mailman.  Created the link:

  ln -s /var/mailman/archives/htdig /etc/htdig-mailman

As long as htidg was configured with /etc as the default directory to 
contain htdig configuration files this should be OK.


and in mm_cfg.py, to make this compatible with RH8 I added:

 HTDIG_RUNDIG_PATH  = '/usr/bin/rundig'


If that's where the Redhat RPM installed rundig, that's OK



Then added:

 USE_HTDIG = 1

to mm_cfg.py

and then ran the indexing engine:

  /var/mailman/cron/nightly_htdig -v

and I get:

  /usr/bin/rundig: line 48:  1104 Aborted   $BINDIR/htnotify $opts
  htfuzzy: Unable to open word database /var/lib/htdig/db.words.db

but I would think htfuzzy should look in:

  /var/mailman/archives/private//htdig/db.words.db


Have you checked out the section under heading "htdig Permissions 
Considerations" in the file INSTALL.htdig-mm which patch 444884 installs in 
$build? Some of the htdig 'databases' generated by the components called by 
rundig can be safely shared between lists while others need to be list 
specific to avoid information leakage from one list's indexes into another's.


htdig Permissions Considerations


Python scripts added by this patch (nightly_htdig and its relatives) run
the htdig rundig script identified by HTDIG_RUNDIG_PATH to build search
indices for Mailman archives. Code added by this patch generates per
list htdig configuration files which are passed as a parameter to the
rundig script. These configuration files identify a list specific
directory ($prefix/archives/private//htdig) in which list
specific data files generated by and used by htdig are to be placed.

However, the rundig script identified by HTDIG_RUNDIG_PATH may attempt
to generate some files in htdig's COMMON_DIR when it is first run by
nightly_htdig; the files concerned are likely to be root2word.db,
word2root.db, synonyms.db and possibly some others generated by htidg's
htfuzzy program. The standard rundig script generates these files
selectively if they do not already exist. Depending on how you have
installed htdig and how the rundig script is first run, there may be a
permissions problem when nightly_hdig executes rundig under the mailman
UID if it tries to generate these files.


Basically you may have to change permssions over the htdig common directory 
. For instance on my internal test system I have the following setup:

mailman@mailman2:/opt/www/htdig> ls -l
total 16
drwxr-xr-x2 root root 4096 Jan 13 16:28 bin
drwxrwxr-x2 root mailman  4096 Jan 14 17:19 common
drwxr-xr-x2 root root 4096 Jan 14 17:22 conf
drwxrwxr-x2 root mailman  4096 Jan 14 17:19 db
mailman@mailman2:/opt/www/htdig> ls -l db
total 0
mailman@mailman2:/opt/www/htdig> ls -l common/
total 6248
-rw-rw-r--1 root mailman84 Jan 13 16:28 bad_words
-rw-rw-r--1 root mailman923308 Jan 13 16:28 english.0
-rw-rw-r--1 root mailman  5756 Jan 13 16:28 english.aff
-rw-rw-r--1 root mailman   190 Jan 13 16:28 footer.html
-rw-rw-r--1 root mailman   877 Jan 13 16:28 header.html
-rw-rw-r--1 root mailman   194 Jan 13 16:28 long.html
-rw-rw-r--1 root mailman  1390 Jan 13 16:28 nomatch.html
-rw-rw-r--1 mailman  mailman   2285568 Jan 14 17:19 root2word.db
-rw-rw-r--1 root mailman67 Jan 13 16:28 short.html
-rw-rw-r--1 root mailman 14481 Jan 13 16:28 synonyms
-rw-rw-r--1 mailman  mailman 90112 Jan 14 17:19 synonyms.db
-rw-rw-r--1 root mailman  1261 Jan 13 16:28 syntax.html
-rw-rw-r--1 mailman  mailman   3022848 Jan 14 17:19 word2root.db
-rw-rw-r--1 root mailman  1087 Jan 13 16:28 wrapper.html
mailman@mailman2:/opt/www/htdig>

As you can see 3 of the files in common were written by the mailman userid 
when nightly_htdig first ran rundig. You will have to tweak things to suit 
your htdig installation setup.


In addition, when I look at the source for the search form on an archive 
page I see . But on my 
system, htsearch exists in /usr/bin.

The htsearch program has to be available to the web server in a directory 
from which the server is prepared to run cgi programs.

Remember that execution of htdig's components is in two parts. The indexing 
of the material is typically done by a cron script running htidg components 
as one some user id from whatever was set up as htdig's bin directory, for 
example /opt/www/htdig/bin.

The 'search' operation, i.e. looking up stuff in the search indexes, using 
htsearch is run as a cgi-bin script under the auspices of the User/Group 
your web server is configured to run as.

I th

Re: [Mailman-Users] Trouble getting htdig to work

[Richard Barrett]

At 22:57 08/02/2003, Paul Kleeberg wrote:

Hooray!  (And thank you)  It works!  ...but there is still a troubling 
message...

At 6:23 PM + 2/8/03, Richard Barrett wrote:
At 16:53 08/02/2003, Paul Kleeberg wrote:

I am attempting to get htdig to work on a RedHat 8.0 system with Apache 
2.0, htdig 3.2.0 and Mailman 2.1

[install steps deleted.  PK]

and then ran the indexing engine:

  /var/mailman/cron/nightly_htdig -v

and I get:

  /usr/bin/rundig: line 48:  1104 Aborted   $BINDIR/htnotify $opts
  htfuzzy: Unable to open word database /var/lib/htdig/db.words.db

but I would think htfuzzy should look in:

  /var/mailman/archives/private//htdig/db.words.db

Have you checked out the section under heading "htdig Permissions 
Considerations"[...]

Guilty as charged.  I confess my eyes glazed over and assumed that these 
would be correct given they were part of the RedHat RPMs. Permissions 
corrected and the installation showed me a warning I had not seen before 
in between the two lines that appeared once again:

  htdig'ing archive of list: 
  /usr/bin/rundig: line 48:  1425 Aborted $BINDIR/htnotify $opts
   Warning:
 The following is a lengthly process, but it is run only
 the first time you start ht://Dig. Initializing database...
   Warning:
 The following is a lengthly process, but it is run only
 the first time you start ht://Dig. Initializing database...
  htfuzzy: Unable to open word database /var/lib/htdig/db.words.db

Still that odd error.  Searching for the db.words.db file, I find:

  /var/mailman/archives/private//htdig/db.words.db
  /var/mailman/archives/private//htdig/db.words.db_weakcmpr

but the search appears to work and it appears to fuzzify it finding "fancy 
or fancied or fancying or fanciness or fancier or fancies or fanciest or 
fanciers" when searching "fancy"

In addition, when I look at the source for the search form on an archive 
page I see . But on my 
system, htsearch exists in /usr/bin.

[...]

If all else fails, as root, copy htsearch into the web server's cgi-bin 
directory and make sure that it readable and excutable but not writable 
by owner, group and other.

I did what you said it appears to work.  However, since I continually 
update my system with the RedHat up2date program, I do not like having two 
copies of an executable unless it is necessary.  I know there is a way I 
can alias it from the cgi-bin directory and still have it executable even 
though it is outside the cgi directory "blessed" by apache but I have to 
look that one up (unless someone can tell me) :-/  I'm pretty 
inexperienced in all this.

I guess you could put a symbolic link in the server's cgi-bin directory to 
wherever the htsearch  is installed by the htdig RPM. But then you've got 
the issue of getting Apache to follow the link, and generally it is bad 
security to tell the server to follow links out into your main file system 
rather than restricting it to working under the ServerRoot. I'll get access 
to a Redhat running sytem and try an check out the Redhat RPMs. If/when 
I've got some useful input I'll e-mail you.

Should I just live with the db.words.db issue?  Will it matter?


This may be an htdig version related issue. The testing I did was with the 
'production' htdig 3.1.6; that's what I am running on my 'production' 
system. On checking the htdig.org web site, htdig 3.2 still seems to be at 
beta status. But it appears from what you say that Redhat are including it 
as a 'production' RPM.

On Monday I will try bringing up htdig 3.2-latest-I-can-find on my test 
system and see I can reproduce the problem you are seeing. I'll get back to 
you after I've fooled around with that.

Thanks for your work.  This looks great.


Glad its working, after a fashion, for you.


Paul
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.1 and htdig

[Richard Barrett]

At 05:47 09/02/2003, Paul Kleeberg wrote:

If I wish to use htdig with Mailman 2.1.1, what patches will I need to 
apply?  (And I just got it working .)

You can try applying the 2.1 versions of the patch on the MM 2.1.1 
distribution; they are quite likely to work OK. If you get no complaints or 
only get warnings about offsets, and get no patch elements rejected then 
you are probably good to go.

But if you can pause for 24 hours, I'll be doing my own tests against MM 
2.1.1 later today/Monday morning and publishing a revised version of my 
htdig integration patches if they are needed. Check on sourceforge after 
lunch (UK time) on Monday.

Bear in mind  I only get access to MM 2.1.1 release at the same time as the 
rest of the user community.

Paul

At 8:39 PM -0500 2/8/03, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

I've released Mailman 2.1.1 which includes many bug fixes and language
updates.  This release includes a fix for the cross-site scripting
vulnerability, a fix for the cookie problem, any many other bugs.  I
recommend that all Mailman 2.1 users upgrade to this release.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.1 and htdig

[Richard Barrett]

At 11:00 09/02/2003, Gour wrote:

Richard Barrett ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> Bear in mind  I only get access to MM 2.1.1 release at the same time as 
the
> rest of the user community.

Any chance that htdig integration patches enter into official release?

It is under consideration and currently a definite maybe. But it isn't 
likely to be until there is a major update such as MM 2.3 or maybe even MM 3

Sincerely,
Gour

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.1 and htdig

[Richard Barrett]

At 05:47 09/02/2003, Paul Kleeberg wrote:

If I wish to use htdig with Mailman 2.1.1, what patches will I need to 
apply?  (And I just got it working .)

I have just applied the MM 2.1 versions of patches  #661138, #668685, 
#444879 and #444884 to the MM 2.1.1 source distribution. There are a couple 
of offset warnings:

1. when patch #444879 is changing files 
$build/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py and $build/Mailman/Defaults.py.in

2. when patch #44484 is changing files $build/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py 
and $build/Mailman/Defaults.py.in

but the modified files end up in the intended state. The offset warning are 
just because other, non-conflicting changes have been made in those files 
in going from 2.1 to 2.1.1

I'll do some confirmatory testing tomorrow when I update my production 
servers; I'm not prepared to do that from home over the net today and my 
lunch is waiting to be eaten :)

I will post revised #444879 and #444884 patches tomorrow that will apply 
without the offset warnings but I think you will be OK going ahead and 
using the most recent 2.1 versions on MM 2.1.1

This is my command line output when applying the patches to MM 2.1.1 is 
given below. If you get this output from patch the results of the patching 
should be as is intended:

barrett@BARRETT-PTBLE:~/real-home/MM-htdig-dev/real-dev> zcat 
../mailman-2.1.1.tgz | tar xf -
barrett@BARRETT-PTBLE:~/real-home/MM-htdig-dev/real-dev> cd mailman-2.1.1/
barrett@BARRETT-PTBLE:~/real-home/MM-htdig-dev/real-dev/mailman-2.1.1> 
patch -p1 < ../../driver-2.1-0.1.patch
patching file `scripts/driver'
barrett@BARRETT-PTBLE:~/real-home/MM-htdig-dev/real-dev/mailman-2.1.1> 
patch -p1 < ../../templates-2.1-0.1.patch
patching file `templates/de/admindbdetails.html'
patching file `templates/en/admindbdetails.html'
patching file `templates/es/admindbdetails.html'
patching file `templates/et/admindbdetails.html'
patching file `templates/fi/admindbdetails.html'
patching file `templates/fr/archidxfoot.html'
patching file `templates/fr/archidxhead.html'
patching file `templates/hu/admindbdetails.html'
patching file `templates/it/admindbdetails.html'
patching file `templates/ja/admindbdetails.html'
patching file `templates/lt/admindbdetails.html'
patching file `templates/nl/admindbdetails.html'
patching file `templates/nl/article.html'
patching file `templates/pt_BR/admindbdetails.html'
patching file `templates/sv/admindbdetails.html'
patching file `templates/sv/admindbpreamble.html'
patching file `templates/sv/article.html'
patching file `templates/sv/headfoot.html'
barrett@BARRETT-PTBLE:~/real-home/MM-htdig-dev/real-dev/mailman-2.1.1> 
patch -p1 < ../../indexing-2.1-0.1.patch
patching file `Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py'
Hunk #1 succeeded at 417 (offset 3 lines).
Hunk #3 succeeded at 648 (offset 3 lines).
Hunk #5 succeeded at 751 (offset 3 lines).
patching file `Mailman/Defaults.py.in'
Hunk #1 succeeded at 1202 (offset 15 lines).
patching file `README.NOINDEXtags'
patching file `templates/cs/article.html'
patching file `templates/de/article.html'
patching file `templates/en/archidxfoot.html'
patching file `templates/en/archidxhead.html'
patching file `templates/en/archtoc.html'
patching file `templates/en/archtocentry.html'
patching file `templates/en/article.html'
patching file `templates/es/article.html'
patching file `templates/et/article.html'
patching file `templates/fi/article.html'
patching file `templates/fr/archidxfoot.html'
patching file `templates/fr/archidxhead.html'
patching file `templates/fr/archtoc.html'
patching file `templates/fr/archtocentry.html'
patching file `templates/fr/article.html'
patching file `templates/hu/archidxfoot.html'
patching file `templates/hu/archidxhead.html'
patching file `templates/hu/archtoc.html'
patching file `templates/hu/archtocentry.html'
patching file `templates/hu/article.html'
patching file `templates/it/archidxfoot.html'
patching file `templates/it/archidxhead.html'
patching file `templates/it/archtoc.html'
patching file `templates/it/archtocentry.html'
patching file `templates/it/article.html'
patching file `templates/ja/archidxfoot.html'
patching file `templates/ja/archidxhead.html'
patching file `templates/ja/archtoc.html'
patching file `templates/ja/archtocentry.html'
patching file `templates/ja/article.html'
patching file `templates/ko/article.html'
patching file `templates/lt/archidxfoot.html'
patching file `templates/lt/archidxhead.html'
patching file `templates/lt/archtoc.html'
patching file `templates/lt/archtocentry.html'
patching file `templates/lt/article.html'
patching file `templates/nl/article.html'
patching file `templates/no/archidxfoot.html'
patching file `templates/no/archidxhead.html'
patching file `templates/no/archtoc.html'
patching file `templates/no/archtocentry.html'
patching file `templates/no/article.html'
patching file `templates/pt_BR/article.html'
patching file `templates/ru/archidxfoot.html'
patching file `templates/ru/archidxhead.html'
patching file `templates/ru/archtoc.h

Re: [Mailman-Users] Trouble getting htdig to work

[Richard Barrett]

At 18:52 09/02/2003, Paul Kleeberg wrote:

Well it may look like it will be out with the new and in with the old.

What is interesting is that RedHat lists the file as 
htdig-3.2.0-7.20020505 - not a mention of the "beta" term.  Must have been 
a typo by someone with bad eyesight who typed "-7" instead of "b4"  ;-)

Now does that also mean I would have to replace htdig-web since it has the 
same release numbers on the RedHat site as htdig?  (I cannot seem find 
them on the web.)

I'm surprised, given you've installed htdig-web that you htsearch was not 
in you server's cgi-bin directory: part of your original problem as I 
recollect.

What is also interesting is that it appears that RedHat used htdig-3.2b3 
and then b4 to index the KDE help files in release 7.1 but not 7.2.  Might 
they have "stabilized" it or is that against the rules without sharing 
that stabilization?  I think I keep playing with it for now.  Haven't gone 
production yet.

Faced with the fact that Redhat have baked in some dependencies to 
htdig-3.2 in other packages I would be inclined to leave that in place. I'd 
download the htdig 3.1.6 source and build that from scratch into a 
different base directoy, say /opt/www/htdig (the default I believe) or 
/usr/local/htdig or whatever. Then point the MM config variable 
HTDIG_RUNDIG_PATH at the 3.1.6 version of rundig. If you are going to get a 
conflict between the htdig-3.2's htsearch in your web server cgi-bin 
directory with the the htdig-3.1.6 version then run ./configure in the 
htdig-3.1.6 --with-cgi-bin-dir set to some other directory in the server's 
tree, ServerRoot/cgi-bin/hdig-3.1.6/ for instance, making sure you set the 
appropriate permissions it in httpd.conf. Point the MM config variable 
HTDIG_SEARCH_URL at this htsearch. The htdig-3.1.6 should do its stuff for 
the mail lists and leave htdig-3.2 to do whatever Redhat intended. Best (or 
worst) of both worlds.

Paul

At 12:17 PM -0500 2/9/03, Jon Carnes wrote:

Having been through this recently at a site I help out on, I can attest
that for us, the drop back to HTDig 3.1.6 (away from the 3.2.b4) was
well worth the effort.

[...]

It's interesting that Red Hat should push the beta out on a production
release.  I found it to be of less than production quality and highly
recommend that you remove v3.2.b4 and install v3.1.6 of HTDig.

[...]

On Sat, 2003-02-08 at 19:53, Paul Kleeberg wrote:
 >

 Just so you know, it is in the standard "everything" install of the
 cheapest CD version of 8.0 but looking at the bottom of the search
 result page on my newly htdigged site, I see:

 >ht://Dig 3.2.0b4-20020505



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[Mailman-Users] mailman-htdig integration patch update

[Richard Barrett]

I have posted on sourceforge revisions of these two patches for application 
to MM 2.1.1. There are no functional changes and the changes is only to 
stop warnings about offsets in files when the 2.1 versions of the patches 
are applied

Patch #444879: Improved archiver indexcontrol
Patch #444884: Mailman/htdig integration

The following two precursor patches have not been updated and the 2.1 final 
versions of them should not generate any warning when being applied to MM 
2.1.1:

Patch #661138: Corrects HTML template defects

Patch #668685: Corrects an error in SystemExit exception handling by 
$prefix/script/driver


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Keeping subscription info in sync across servers

[Richard Barrett]

At 16:41 10/02/2003, Ian Chilton wrote:

Hello,

Please cc replies to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


I was wondering if there was an easy way to keep subscription info in
sync across multiple list servers.

What I want to do is setup a backup list server which will still
deliver list mail if the main box is down. So, I only need a single way
replication, i.e all changes are made on the main server and the 2nd
server just has to stay in sync.

I was thinking an easy way to do this would be to have a function in
mailman which made it automatically sent an e-mail or made a socket
connection to the other server when any options or subscriptions were
changed.

Is such a thing possible?


Thanks!

--ian


Just an idea of how we do things but it may not suit your needs/equipment 
configuration.

Faced with the problem of mailing list server resilience and redundancy we 
turned to NFS and keep almost all of MM's $prefix subtree (all except the 
stuff in $exec-prefix) on shared storage. I do have the advantage of a high 
uptime file server, with all the data security features to act as NFS 
server for this.

I run a live server with a backup server as hot standby, that is, the 
secondary sits there until the primary server breaks and we initiate the 
switchover. This involves a minimal manual intervention.

Basically we switch the MAC address of the machines known as 
primary-mailman-server.our.domain and secondary-mailman-server.our.domain 
in the DHCP config. A brief pause, shutdown the old primary and reboot the 
erstwhile secondary which now comes up with the primary IP number. A little 
conditionality in some of the start scripts means that coming up with the 
primary server IP's number is all that is needed for the new primary server 
to run as such.

A slight pause for the switchover period is OK for us; incoming mail just 
backs up on the MTA's trying to deliver to the Mailman server until the 
switchover completes.

It is a bit crude but it works; had the internal hard drive on the primary 
die a few weeks back and switched over with less than 15 minutes 
interruption in service and no lost mail.

The secondary server does not lie fallow. It has its own MX record and I 
can run test lists on it. I use it (not mounting NFS but using its local 
hard drive for MM's $prefix tree) for checking out new MM software releases 
and getting the wrinkles out before upgrading the primary server in the NFS 
space; the stress when doing a major upgrade to the primary server is much 
reduced having already done it for real as a rehearsal on the secondary 
machine first. The secondary is also used for other non-critical tasks that 
can be suspended if we have to perform a switchover.

If you have other ideas for providing low-cost resilience and redundancy 
for a Mailman server then I would like to hear them.

Cheers

Richard


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Configuring mailman for a future domain name

[Richard Barrett]

At 04:06 11/02/2003, Matthew Davis wrote:

* Paul Kleeberg ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> What you say is correct but won't that put a "legacy" URL into
> Default.py whereas if I used the (undocumented?) parameters below,
> would it build Default.py with the correct URLs and therefore
> eliminate the necessity to add the entry to mm_cfg.py?
>
> I suppose I should just shut-up and try it and see what happens...

That's correct.  By not modifing Defaults.py you put a 'legacy' url in there
so its posed to confuse the next admin that takes your place (heaven
forbid...).  But I believe thoes are there for example purporses, and your
not lucky enough to have the 'defaults' work.

You can edit Defaults.py, I personally see no harm in it other than it'll
break future source patches and maybe you'll forget working syntex's if you
mess something up.  But that's nothing that can't be solved by refering back
to the Defaults.py in the tarball.


The reason for not editing Defaults.py is that it is replaced when you 
install a new version of MM over an existing version: the normal case when 
updating an operational installation. Hence you will lose the configuration 
variable changes you have made to a running system if you made them in 
Defaults.py

In contrast, mm_cfg.py is _NOT_ replaced when a new version of MM is 
installed over an existing version and hence your explicit local 
configuration changes are retained over the update.

Remember that the Mailman source modules only import mm_cfg (never 
Defaults) which, alone, imports Defaults _before_ doing its own 
assignments; this means that the config variable assignments in mm_cfg 
override any assignment of the same variable in Defaults. If it isn't 
mentioned in mm_cfg, then the assignment in Defaults holds sway.

Admins should follow the same logic, in which case there should be little 
room for confusion.

Mailman's developers were thinking about site admins when they set things 
up to work this way.

Take it for what its worth, it was free...

--
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Interstellar Matter is a Gas



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Editing Archives

[Richard Barrett]

At 08:01 12/02/2003, Andy Woolley wrote:

Hi All,

I need to edit the archive of one of my lists to remove some text that a
user is worried will be found on Search Engines.

I've looked and see that this feature is to be added to Version 3.0 and
possibly to version 2.1.

My question is: Did this feature manage to get done in the current release?

If not, is there a way I can edit the archive using a text editor?

Thanks very much in advance.
Andy


An archived eamil will be in two places:

The list's UNIX mbox file:

$prefix/archives/private/.mbox/.mbox

The list's html archive. :

$prefix/archives/private///.html

You can edit either or both with a regular text editor. Or you can just 
edit the mbox file and use $prefix/bin/arch to rebuild the html archives. 
The second choice may chew up a fair bit of CPU time if the list concerned 
has a lost of postings.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Please HELP ME!!! - Mailmanctl does not work

[Richard Barrett]

At 13:56 12/02/2003, Alberto Marcedone wrote:

[root@server mailman]# /home/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
Lista di sito mancante: mailman

"mailmanctl start" does not work. All my mailing list are stopped.
I have not a list called mailman.

Here is the log:
Feb 12 15:59:03 2003 mailmanctl(2628): Lista di sito mancante: mailman
Feb 12 15:59:03 2003 (2628) Site list is missing: mailman

Any suggestion?
Alberto


Then create the 'master' mailing list called 'mailman' as instructed in the 
INSTALL document in the release.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Bulk Subscribing

[Richard Barrett]

At 14:22 12/02/2003, Ashley Horn wrote:

When bulk subscribing members to a mailman list (Version 2.1.1) through
the web interface is it possible to associate a name with an e-mail
address? What is the correct format for this process?

Thanks,

Ashley Horn


Adding lines like the next (non-blank) one works for me:

"Fred Buggins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List Spam Protection

[Richard Barrett]

At 12:11 12/02/2003, Links at Momsview wrote:

I currently have a VERY large ( >100k)  announce only list (always
moderated) running mailman  2.1 under Postfix.

For performance reasons I'm considering splitting this list into 26 sublists
based on the first letter of each subscriber email.
I would then use an umbrella list to send to all of the sublists at once.

As I understand it, unless I want to separately approve the message for the
26 sublists I need to allow at least one email address to post unmoderated
on ALL of the sublists.  This is very scary since spammers currently try to
post on my current large list almost daily.



(1) How do I protect the sublists from spammers who spoof the "from" address
in their emails?

(2) Can I protect these sublists from ALL emails other than those from
localhost and my umbrella list?

(3) Are there any other methods that people use for Umbrella announce only
lists?


One other method I've been thinking about is using a grep expression to
define a sender address that is only valid for one day each month.
Any idea how I could do this?


I would have thought the following arrangement would suit your needs:

1. Set up the umbrella list the same as you have your current all-in-one 
list in terms of privacy, moderation etc

2. The trick I think will work is to only allow postings to the sublists 
that have first gone to the umbrella list so that in most all respects the 
sublists do not have to protect themselves.

3. On the Privacy->Recipients page of the admin web GUI for the sublists 
set the acceptable_aliases field to contain a regex that only matches your 
umbrella list.

4. On the Privacy->Spam filters page of the admin web GUI for the sublists 
set the bounce_matching_headers fields to contain the following:

to: @your.mailman.sever.com
cc: @your.mailman.sever.com

In essence sublists are going to allow through and distribute messages that 
have been sent to the umbrella list but hold messages sent direct to 
themselves.

Because the rules are being applied to posts by the umbrella lists we do 
not have to worry about having tight rules for the sublists as what reaches 
them has been proved "acceptable" mail via the umbrella list.

You probably want to tidy up a bunch of loose ends so that only the 
umbrella list adds footers and prefixs to the subject line and such, but I 
think this will work as you want.

I suspect you may want to:

1. add to the list of non-members who are allowed to post to each sublist 
the addresses of those you are allowing to post to the umbrella list.

2. set the following on the Privacy->Senders page of the admin web GUI for 
the sublists:

   a. set the generic_nonmember_action to Discard or Reject

   b. forward_auto_discards to No


This will mean that most attempts to post to the sublists will be 
discarded/rejected automatically. If that is not acceptable because the 
list of allowed posters is too long or whatever, then you will get 
notifications of held mail when posts are made directly to the sublists. 
Haven't figured out how to stop that (yet).

Be interested to hear what your final solution is.


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[Richard Crane]

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