Re: [Mailman-Users] HA: how to avoid mailmanSite list creation

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Thanks for your reply,
>  
> 1) Maybe someone could tell me if there is a way to avoid creating 
> "mailman" list and still run mailman properly?

See FAQ http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.025.htp.
You need to have -something- for this purpose, although it appears that you 
can rename it. OTOH, I personally don't know of anyone who's done so.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Config

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Sujay Thomas wrote:

> 1. Subscribers send mail to the mailing list address.
> 2. Everyone in the mailing list gets this message.
> 3. Any replies made to the messages get sent to everyone as well.
> 
> Right now it doesn't do this and I can't seem to figure out how to set it up 
> that way. It can be done, right? 

If I understand correctly, you want a reply to a list message to go to
everyone on the list, not just the originator of the message. If so,
set the list as "reply to list" not "reply to poster".

OTOH, many people consider that a Bad Thing. Virtually all email
programs have a "reply-all" function, and that should be used if
you want to the entire list to see your reply. (flames on this to
nla0:)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Lists to a new server

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Dennis Putnam wrote:
> Can someone point me to some documentation for migrating mailman  
> lists and archives to a new server? Thanks.

> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
While the search engine appears to be out of service, the index isn't.

> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Start with
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List: Only administrator / owner of list shall be allowed to post

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Oliver [K_nig] wrote:

> Hello,
> I want to set up a mailing list, where only the administrator / owner of list
> shall be allowed to post messages to the list. How do I configure this?

please check the FAQ, url is below. (look for 'announce only' or some such)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Questions about Mailman

[Carl Zwanzig]

Hi,

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Nelly Yusupova wrote:
> I am a newbie to mailman but I can not figure out how to 
> 1. Create an announce only list

That's a FAQ.

> 2. Automatically subscribe registrants to our lists using a script.  
> For example, when someone becomes a member of our organization, I would 
> like the script to automatically subscribe that person to the announce list:
> subscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] to LISTNAME

I'm sure that's a FAQ, too.

Please check:
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Different servers

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Benjamin Mack wrote:


> So, the hardest part was actually the rewriting of sendmail, which does
> not work quite well yet. Maybe I should switch to exim or so.

If you are going to switch MTAs, seriously think about Postfix.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Announce List (nOOb Question)

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Ken at Meancode Media wrote:

> Where is the setting for an announce list?  Thanks!

In the FAQ?

> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Please check there.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] having trouble getting webpages to come up

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Eric Evans wrote:

> No, we're definitely not using any rewriting rules.  What I'd really like 
> to know is, what exactly is it that connects Mailman to Apache?  Is it just 
> that one ScriptAlias statement in the httpd.conf?  If so, then how exactly 
> how does this work?  I'd really like to understand the process by which the 
> Apache server is able to find the Mailman admin web page.  There is clearly 
> some kind of big disconnect between Mailman and Apache on our server.

>From my apache2 config:

   ScriptAlias /mailman/  "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"

AllowOverride None
Options None
Order allow,deny
Allow from all


That's about it. Well, that and the correct permissions -everywhere-.
Even if check_perms thinks they're correct, check what uid/gid apache
will use for cgi's against all the directory permissions.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Uhhuh, my GID blues goes on... :(

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Niemi Hannu wrote:

> I have two sets of the lists:
> 
> 1) Lists that operate all right, when /etc/mailman/mailman.mail-gid is
> 65533(nobody> ("vintage lists")
> 2) Lists that operate all right, when /etc/mailman/mailman.mail-gid is 
> 67 (mailman) (newly created lists)

> The functionality is 100% repeatable all the lists in 1) function all
> right eith 65533 and fail with 67 and all the lists in 2) function all
> right with gid 67 and fail with 65533 with (now infamous error message):


> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Command died with status 2:
> "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post hn11240914-l". Command output:
> Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 65533, GOT gid 67.

The wrapper program was compiled with gid 65535 (nobody). You need to 
recompile it with gid 67 (mailman).

> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Search for 'group mismatch', read 1.4 & 6.15 (and maybe 3.14)

In short- set the group on -everything- in the mailman tree to mailman.
 Compile 'wrapper' to use gid mailman.
 Rerun check_perms again.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Quick question ..

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Rob Poe wrote:
> I'm running Mailman for a list, and one of my subscribers is getting 
> this message from spamalert.net
> 
> (VIRUS) Re: [CWC] Fuel Tank Removal
>Received: Wednesday, Nov 23, 2005 at 9:03pm
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  (removed) 
>From:  <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
>Description: Outlook "CR" vulnerability
>This message was deleted and cannot be retrieved.
> 
> He said if the person sends directly to him, he gets the message just 
> fine.  It's when it bounces through Mailman that it picks up this error..

Checking on the error in question, (Outlook "CR" vulnerability), something 
is slipping in a naked  character into the message header. Check all 
your configs for one of them. Also, is there a '\r' in there somewhere? 

Python question- if you use a backslash at the end of a line in a string
literal, can that bury a  in the text?

Are you using a MAC, BTW? (Uses  as EOL character.)

> I'm perplexed now. :/

Reading spamalert's "support" page, I'm not surprised. It's more of a 
"no support" page...

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Re: [Mailman-Users] how many mailman subscribers?

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> How many users (subscribers) can Mailman handle? It's been suggested to 
>me that if you have over 1500 users, that one should consider using L-Soft's
>Listserv.  Can anyone comment on there experience with Mailman and how many 
>users it can handle?


> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
which points to:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp
"The largest list reported to date had around 147,000 members."

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman complie errors again

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> I am compiling mailman-2.1.5 on Solaris10 (SPARC) with gcc 3.3.2
> When I do make install, I get the following fatal error:

Mailman compiles itself. Are you compiling -python-? (That's what it looks 
like.) Sort of out of scope for this list, but you might want to take a 
look at:

http://www.python.org/download/download_other.html

> /usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:432: error: parse error before "k_siginfo_t"
> /usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:437: error: parse error before '}' token
> In file included from /usr/include/sys/procset.h:24,
>  from /usr/include/sys/wait.h:25,
>  from /usr/include/stdlib.h:22,
>  from /usr/local/include/python2.4/Python.h:39,
>  from src/_japanese_codecs.c:12:

Also check the python FAQs.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Installation Owner

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Kory Wheatley wrote:

> I have a very critical question.  I installed "Mailman 2.1.6" under
> a user account called "wheakory"  and this account needs to be removed
> off of our system fast.  I would like to change ownership of the Mailman
> installer owner to "mailacct" which is another account on our system. 
> My group is the default group "mailman", server is "www".  If I just do
> a find command :
> (find /home/mailman -user wheakory -exec chown wheakory {} \;)
> (find /home/mailman -group wheakory -exec chgrp wheakory {} \;)

2dn wheakory -> mailman on both of those.
(or just chown -R mailman:mailman /home/mailman)

> Here's the configuration I used to install Mailman 2.16 logged in as the
> "wheakory" user account.
> ./configure  --prefix=/home/mailman --with-python=/usr/bin/python
> --with-mail-gid=mailman --with-cgi-gid=www

That should get the files, but the wrapper code will still want to 
use wheakory. You will have to rebuild that, but a "reinstall" 
isn't necessary. I'm sure there's something in the FAQ abou this.

BTW, I'd recommend using user/group "mailman" as it's the canonical
uid/gid.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Backing up your mailing list

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Hujjah 313 wrote:

> Is there a feature on mailman whereby we can backup our mailing list on hard 
> disk?

Well, they're already on the server's hard disks. If you want to back up the
lists, all you need to do is copy them, they're in the mailman/lists dir.
Given the size of the rest of MM, you might as well copy out the entire
mailman directory tree. (OTOH, all server disks ought to be backed up 
already.) 

> Its quite necessary to have a hard copy of your list when dealing with 
> 10,000+ emails where people constantly want to subscribe and unsubscribe.

That's a lot of members to keep on hard copy, so I'm sure I don't understand
the reasoning. I don't bother keeping lists of 20 on hard copy. If you just 
need a list of all members, list_members will produce that. Run it w/o
arguments for help.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman or postfix problem?

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Thomas Waters wrote:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Command died with status 2:
>  "/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman post rxtesttuesday". Command  
> output: Group
>  mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be  
> executed as
>  group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail  
> script as
>  group "tcwaters".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the  
> script as group
>  "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
>  `--with-mail-gid=tcwaters'.
> 
> 
> I ask if this is mailman or postfix because I was trying to move the  
> mail lists to a new server, so I have "handled" the mailman files,  
> but never touched the Postfix files.  Is this a file permissions issue?

Yes :-).  Since groups are specified with a name which is them mapped to
a number, is that number the same?  I've seen new versions of an OS come
with different /etc/group files.  I assume that tcwaters is not the group
that you expected to be there.  (See the FAQ also, you'll probably need to
either change the group tcwaters to be called mailman and reset all the
file groups or rebuild mailman on that new system.)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Need help setting up a list

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Phillips wrote:
> How do I set up a list so it is for announcements only?  The recipients can 

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  ^^^

Go to the FAQ, search for 'annouunce', read 3.11...

About replies, just configure the list set as 'reply to sender' not
'reply to list'.

In general, you should take some time to look at -all- the config
pages for your new list. You'll find all sorts of interestin things, and
most of them have help available.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Why are footers sent as attachments?

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> Strictly speaking, this depends on the MUA, too.  In the message I'm
> replying to Gnus added no less than 16 clickable items, including
> everything in the footer (every line except the title "Mailman-Users
> mailing list").  It's a shame that major vendors concentrated on a
> misfeature that allows you to write
> 
> http://www.spyware-hell.com/downloads/";>
> www.tulips.org has the best selection of garden photos!
> 
> in email, instead of teaching their products to snarf URLs out of
> text/plain.

Strange enough, some versions of lookOut will make things that look
like URLs (and UNCs) clickable even in plain-text messages. At my 
office, only about a third of the users send HTML-format email, but
for the most part lookOut does the right thing.  (Now if I could get
them to stop sending multihundred K attachments to entire exchange
server lists... not my job, though)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] about python

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, reema jamil wrote:
> hello,
>
>   I want a detailed tutorial on python. Also want to know that does this 
> language support pointers, enumeration, record ,union , abstract data types 
> etc... 


You might try http://www.python.org/ and possibly 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Emails With Attachments

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Marlowe McClasky wrote:

> We are unable to send an email with an attached file.  Can it be done?  

Make the attachment smaller than 40k. (Or better, put the file on a web
site and send the URL.)

> We receive the following error message:
> --
> Your mail to 'NAPHAstaff' with the subject
> 
> Test - Please Ignore
> 
> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
> 
> The reason it is being held:
> 
> Message body is too big: 199200 bytes with a limit of 40 KB
> 
> Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
> notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
> this posting, please visit the following URL:
> 
> http://napha.org/mailman/confirm/naphastaff_napha.org/b7f39d43b11e01add9b6a9ebf5843825089d8562
> 
> 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> > 
> > 3) When typing, mailq, on the server, it does not list the corresponding
> > held messages. These are message Mailman has in its qfiles that PostFix
> > does not know about.

> In which qfiles? If it is qfiles/retry/*, then the message has been
> queued for retry because the original MTA delivery attempt resulted in
> a transient error. The reason is logged in Mailman's smtp-failure log.

The command 'mailq' usually lists -sendmail-'s queue. Postfix uses the
postqueue command, and AFAIK mailman doesn't have a command at all.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] GMane?

[Carl Zwanzig]

All this discussion is starting to sound like a game of "Who struck John?"
(BTW, before this, I'd never heard of Gmane.)

Taking what everyone's said a face value, Gmane provides a service that
some people like. The admins/owners of the MM list don't like Gmane's 
policies, thus don't want to participate. Seems kind of simple.

For my money ($0.02), there's seldom any utility in gate'ing a mailing
list to a usenet group, they operate in fundementally different ways
and are used in different ways.  For this list, which is fairly low
traffic as lists go and which has a good archive, what features of 
newsgroup distribution enhance it's usability. We already know that
there are propagation delays between usenet and lists. If you want to see
threads, you can use a MUA that does them (I don't bother, no need).

[I also wonder if Gmane is the reason that my spam at this address has
gone up by a factor of 5-7x in the last month]

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Re: [Mailman-Users] One way mailing list

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Steven Jones wrote:
> What would be the right settings for a mailing list where one or two
> people post to a list of subscribers but those subscribers cannot post
> themselves to the list?

Search the FAQ for announcement or one-way lists.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Batch Processing

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Dana Nevins wrote:

> I have an announcement list with 45,000 members, when I send an email not
> only does it severely overload the server but it also gets blocked from
> performing DNS lookups after the first few thousand lookups. 

Which MTA are you using? You may want to let mailman send it all to the
MTA and have the MTA slow the delivery. Postfix has some rate controls
(http://www.postfix.org/rate.html), I assume that most of the other
MTAs do too.

Or, I may be nuts :-).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Cron setup

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Do the other scripts in /etc/cron.daily run?
> 
> This is not the normal way to run a script with cron. The normal way is
> to put an entry in the crontab of the user that specifies what to run
> and when. See 'man crontab' and 'man 5 crontab'.

In some versions of linux, it is used to run things hourly/daily/
weekly/monthly.  I see it in both suse and redhat with things like
logrotate, tripwire, and makewhatis. OTOH, none of my bsd systems are set 
up this way.

Either way, it's not really a mailman question.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Help me; What serve my needs???

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jonas Jacobsen wrote:

> Somtimes over 10 mail. It is only needed to send the mail out. And 
> the most important is the speed.

> Is there another listsoftware there is better for "oneway maling" ???

Maybe, but mailman does it quite well.

> and how many mails, do you think can be sent per hour, with the ringt 
> configuration???

Largely depends on the MTA and net connection.

> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Check the FAQ for "performance", "large lists", and other similar words.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] What is your injection speed???

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jonas Jacobsen wrote:
> I would like to know how fast mailman can inject mails to the postfix 
> mail spool??

I think the bigger question is usually how fast can postfix deliver 
the messages. Mailman will batch the addresses it sends to the MTA, I think
that 500 is the default size batch, and send them as fast as the MTA can
accept them

You may want to read all of section 6 of the FAQ.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] A little help please

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Said Sr Manager decided that they did not like the name we had chosen for our 
> domain, so they asked us to change it.  When we changed it, the mail does not 
> work.  Sigh.

> I can launch the web pages, add subtract, modify and view the list info.  It 
> just does not communicate.  Clearly I am just missing somewhere in the 
> systems where I need to change the domain name.

> I probably am overthinking this one, and the answer is right in front of me - 
> but I am fried and not thinking well.


Are incoming messages delivered by the MTA to Mailman?
Do you see Mainman handing message back to the MTA?
Anything interesting in the log files, for both Mailman and the MTA?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] No Mailman web pages appear.

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Andy wrote:

> Thanks for your reply. The admin tried everything he could and it still does
> not work. He has virtual hosts, and he suspects that perhaps Mailman cannot
> work with virtual hosts, only with proper WWW servers.
> Can you please confirm?

What is a "virtual host" v. a "proper WWW server"?  I have mailman and
apache nicely doing lists for a couple of different domains on one apache 
and one mailman instance.   [Sorry, I missed the beginning of this thread.]

I must wonder if this admin isn't to clear on the concepts...

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Re: [Mailman-Users] qrunner restarts every 15 minutes

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Joern Allmers wrote:

> Mailman works great and everything could be fine if not it was restarting 
> every 15 minutes:

Perchange, is qrunner being run every 15 minutes in a cron job? Newer mailmans
just start qrunner once at boot time and it deals with it's own scheduling.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] qrunner restarts every 15 minutes

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Joern Allmers wrote:
> > Perchange, is qrunner being run every 15 minutes in a cron job? Newer
> > mailmans just start qrunner once at boot time and it deals with it's own
> > scheduling.
> 
> I don't think so. In cron.d theres no entry for it. Any idea why the qrunners 
> are stopt?

Could be in /etc/crontab, /var/spool/cron/mailman, or some other place...
Pre 2.1 versions ran qrunner from cron.

In answer to the second question, you can only have one of each qrunner
at a time, so if you start a new master, it'll kill any others that it
sees.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] one way or no-reply list

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Lucy Rasmussen wrote:

> sent to all list members.  Is there any way that I can make this list 
> a "no response" list?  Alternatively, is there a way that I can have 
> responses posted to me for screening?  Thanks for your help.  I 
> suppose an alternative is to delete the list and reconfigure under a 
> new name?  Thanks for your help.  Lucy

That would be FAQ 3.11-
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Custom footer based on sender's email

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Rob Jackson wrote:
>  Was hoping to use some regular expression and just remove some lines.  The
> lines I need to remove will always be the same.

The problem is that it won't always the the same. As you see below, 
now the footer has "> " in front of each line. Another reply from 
a different MUA might add a different prefix and wrap a line or two.
There isn't much you can count on here.

FWIW, my initial thought to the question was "user training". 


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jim Popovitch wrote:

> I am no Python expert either, but i am a competent perl and C++ 
> programmer.  After about 4 years of tweaking and changing Python code, 
> I've learned to appreciate it's power, but also it's simplicity.  Python 
> is a very well designed programming language, Mailman is just one of 
> many great apps that prove this.

In general, I agree, but I question a language that relies on indent level 
for blocking and don't let you include blank lines for readability. I guess 
it's ok when you get used to it.  But then again, I mostly work in tcl at 
this point...   :-)

Of course, YMMV

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I prefer however to think in terms of the RFEs on this which ask for
> various things from simply exposing the parameter in the web interface
> to providing a radio button selection (e.g. 20, 50, 100, all) on the
> pages to paginating without regard for the alphabet.

How about chunk size and by-letter or whole-list (to apply the chunk)?
I'm willing to bet that the admin of a 300 member list would like to
display by letter, but set the chuck size huge so they see an entire 
letter on one page.

> I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk size
> = 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two pages
> rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to find a
> particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member' function is
> probably better for this anyway.

That sounds good to me. In the case of small-ish lists, skimming 2 or
3 pages to find an email address is less likely to annoy than trying
to remember which letter to start with.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Brad Knowles wrote:
> Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:
> 
> > I'm trying to run mailman 2.1.8 on a system with only 32 MB RAM (and
> > ~100 MB swap).

> So, at an absolute minimum, this machine would require ~236MB swap space
> and ~56MB of real RAM, plus the OS requirements.  Given these numbers, I
> wouldn't try to run Mailman on a machine with less than 512MB of swap and
> 128MB of RAM.

FWIW, I'm running mailman on an openbsd system w/ 64M ram and 200M swap
on an old Compaq P90.  Active software includes mailman (2.1.5), apache, 
postfix, and bind.  Not very speedy, but works well enough for <50 member 
lists.

top tells me:
Memory: Real: 23M/47M act/tot  Free: 11M  Swap: 41M/200M used/tot

> I don't think you're going to cut down those memory requirements by much,
> at least not for Mailman itself.  You might be able to find a web server
> that requires less swap and RAM, and an MTA that is lighter in
> requirements, but in my experience Mailman itself is pretty much the same
> all over.

There are tiny web and smtp servers, but I suspect that most of them will
be missing -some- feature that mailman needs. While trying to shoehorn a
working system onto some "interesting" platform can be fun, life will be
easier if you can add a bunch of memory.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] implicit destination

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Dr. John Caccavale wrote:
> I just cannot seem to get a workable solution to a problem I am having
> with Mailman. Although the list is set up to be unmoderated, I am still
> getting message to "accept or deny" a message from members. The reason
> is always the same: "implicit destination".  I have tried everything but 
> nothing works.

FAQ 1.9 ..  (it's usually because the list was BCC'd on the message)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] HTML Formatted Email

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Ki Song wrote:

> Question: Does Horde and/or Squirrel Mail send HTML Mail that is sent as
> source code? I've found that these programs allow me to send HTML email that
> is already FORMATTED, but I want to be able to just copy/paste HTML code
> from an HTML editor (Dreamweaver) and insert it into the body of the e-mail.
> Then, I just want to tell the mail composer that I am sending HTML Source
> Code that is supposed to be formatted after I send the message.

I think you really need to be researching these on the lists/websites
for those programs. Likewise for other mail clients & html editors. Not
to put words in other people's mouths, but this is a list for mailman,
not for squirrelmail, thunderbird, postfix, etc.

I'd start with google.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Fedora 5/Mailman: Lot of memory being used while sending email

[Carl Zwanzig]

B.G. Mahesh wrote:

> When we post anything on a list that has about 360k email ids, python is
> using 4GB of memory
> [2 GB physical and 2 GB of virtual] and the process is taking a long time
> [to send out emails]
> 
> How do  I fine tune it?

You might start with FAQ 4.11 and possibly the appropriate part of
section 6 for your MTA.  See the footer for the URL.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman export/import

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, glgavpc wrote:
> How do you export the mail list from one server and import it into another???

you check the FAQ?  (or the message archive)

> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Exporting Lists

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Aaron Oliver wrote:
> Hopefully someone can help me out.  The list server that is currently in 
>use in our organization has completely stopped sending e-mails.  It has been 
>restarted several times and will no longer function like it should.  

What doesn't work? Does mailman not send the mail to the MTA? Does the MTA
not send the mail out? What do the logs say? (etc etc)

>   I need to export the e-mail lists to move to a more reliable and stable 
>system.  However, when I export the file list, it does not match what is 
>showing in the web interface.  In fact, the web interface shows about 1000 
>more members than the file I exported.  
>   Can someone please point me in the right direction to find the proper file.

Moving lists is a FAQ, however you don't need to extract the member list,
you move the list dirs & their .pck file(s). Please check the FAQ.

Is there a reason that you can't fix the original server? that usually
easier than moving lists and getting everyone pointed at a new server.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] problem with default domain

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Kim Leandersson wrote:

> My problem is that when the server was being installed someone
> misspelled the hostname so it was entered as plisk.example.com instead
> of plesk.example.com. This error are now corrected, but somewhere in the
> mailman installation the plisk entry exists. The problem with this is
> that all the monthly password reminders are sent out from
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and since many mailserver checks if
> the domain exist before delivery the deny the mail. 

The brute force approach is to get into the mailman directory and
"grep -r plisk *.pck". Also check all db and py files.

It's got to show up eventually.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual sites

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jay Vaagen wrote:

> If I understand all this correctly, there's no current feature that will
> allow mailman to send mail from the correct virtual domain's hostname, and
> not localhost.. correct?

As I understand the current implimentation of virtual domains, much of the
config is kept as site-wide, not domain- or list-wide, data. To do what you're
talking about would require at least domain-wide config.

Probably the easiest way to get the 'multiple' domains that you want
is to run one instance of mailman for each domain. Yoy can then configure
the smtphost for that specific domain.

Perhaps virtual domains in 2.2 will have this feature, however you'll have
to wait for 2.2 then :).

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Re: [Mailman-Users] MM lists on Gmane

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jason R. Mastaler wrote:
> On 9/16/06 11:32 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:
> > If the Gmane folks had actually come to us first, we might well have 
> > approved their request to set up a gateway. 

> So because you feel personally offended, you choose to punish all 
> Mailman users by not letting Gmane carry their lists?  I think you are 
> serving your own interests, and not those of the Mailman community, and 
> that is unfortunate.

AFAICT, most of the "mailman community" reads this mailman list. It's not
hard to find or use. Also, decending to personal attacks does not further
the disuussion.

> Good god man, this is an open source software project.  If Gmane allows 
> me and others to keep up with Barry's release announcements for example 
> in a convenient manner, I think that's a good thing.  You've blown this 
> issue up into comic book proportions and made it something that it 
> simply is not.

I think that Jason is doing the blowing up here. The list owners/maintainers
have clearly said that they don't want to play with gmane. Done.  If gmane
had added some of my lists w/o asking, I'd have some impolite things to say
about that, too. Just because mailman is an opensource project doesn't mean
that the maintainers -owe- the rest of the world anything. (And, if you
want to keep up with announcements, subscribe to the mailman-announce list.)

Please let it rest.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] invalid checksum while doing portinstall

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

> I have a problem installing mailman under FreeBSD 6.1. When I go to ports 
> to install mailman, it gives me an error message about invalid checksum.

> Could anyone offer any advice on how to install mailman? I tried deleting 
> the distinfo file and using cvsup to generate a new one but it has not 
> helped either.

The bsd ports tree is never (and can't be) screamingly up to the minute. 
Since for mailman IIRC there aren't any bsd-specific patches needed, I'd 
pull the release tarball and build in /usr/local/src.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to move a list from 2.1.2

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jon Forrest wrote:

> Maybe I'm old fashioned, but building from source can sometimes
> be a good way to go here. It's not very hard, and you learn more
> about the package you're building. This can help a lot of something
> goes wrong because then you don't see the program as a closed box.

I suppose that I'm also rather 'old-fashioned" in that my preferred 
installation is from source, followed by using bsd ports. I've always 
found that using RPMs annoyed me. Either I have to go back and add missing 
dependancies, I don't know where things are installed, or the build options 
are wrong.  (Even on linux, I try to use original sources, not SRPMs.)

And as Jon said, you can learn quite a bit about what you're installing
just by installing it. I mean, how many people that install from RPMs
even know that there might be a README file to read, let along to and 
find it?

You could try installing freebsd instead of linux. Once the base OS
is installed, doing postfix (or exim) and mailman is quite easy.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] spam, spamcop and mailman moderation

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Gadi Evron wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Patrick Bogen wrote:
> > Bearing that in mind, you shouldn't be using moderation as a
> > first-line anti-spam defense. Your MTA should be tagging emails as
> > spam (e.g., using Spamassassin, or something better suited to your
> > particular configuration), greylisting, etc. With a properly

> > This is fairly trivial to implement; just set up your MTA to pass mail
> > through spamassassin, and then add a check for the headers it adds to
> > mailman's list configuration, if nothing else.

> That fails the test of reality on lists I run which can be filtered. The
> problem is so big now simple filtering doesn't do that much good. On those
> lists that can't (security related with a lot of false positives) not
> practical.

I'm not sure how this fails a reality test. Are any anti-spam measures
in place currently?  If not, mailman is certainly not the place to 
start. That place is the incoming mail MTA.  (If you run your own servers,
installing spamassassin shoundn't take too much time. If you're using a
hosting server, then they should already have spam filters in place. If
they don't/can't you might consider a service that does.)

Once the MTA filters out what it can, and tags the suspect spam as such,
-then- creating mailman filters does become an almost trivial task.

Please search the mailman user's list archives, there have been many
discussions about spam handling.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder

[Carl Zwanzig]

[not speaking for Mark, Barry, or really anyone but me]

This is really the classic IT problem of unsupported configurations.

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Pierre Igot wrote:

> But the reality was that, in all likelihood, this was a pretty basic  
> problem that had to do with Mailman itself, that it probably had  
> nothing to do with Apple's customizations, and that the most  
> efficient way to get help was probably to submit a request to this list.

>From my dim memories, this probably isn't the case as often as it is
(the recent thread on pipermail and debian?). Also, if it's a common
problem, it's likely to have been addresed in the FAQ or sometime
earlier on this list. The number of people that don't check either
resource is astounding (esp as evidenced by the responses that simple
say "check faq x.yy").

> The question is whether it really costs Mailman experts such as  
> yourself so much effort to just provide such basic help from time to  
> time to "newbies" like me using a possibly somewhat non-standard  
> version of Mailman. 

The problem that comes up far too often is that someone, such as Mark,
says "what's in the vette log?" or "delete /usr/local/mailman/lists/fred.lock"
and the questioner says "where is it?" or "But I don't -have- a 
/usr/local/mailman" directory". We then start playing 20 questions-
do you have root access?
which version is installed?
which pakcaged version is installed?
etc.  (iirc, all if which is in faq 3.14)

Given that mailman and the support are free, I think it's a bit
much to expect that the maintainers know exactly how each distributor
builds their package (directories, options, etc). They can only say
"on a stock system, it works like this", and sometimes "there's a vette
log somewhere, please find it".

z!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoing messagesstuck in qrunner/in folder

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Brad Knowles wrote:

> Well, I updated the listinfo page for mailman-users in three places. 
> The first paragraph now reads:
> 
>   This mailing list is for users and other parties interested
>   in the Mailman mailing list management system, as provided
>   for download via the resources shown at
>   http://www.list.org/download.html. There is a separate
>   mailing list for people interested in discussion about
>   development of the system - mailman-developers.

Brad- I like those descriptions, although I might further clarify that
"uesrs" doesn't mean people sending mail through mailman, it means
people installing/managing/troubleshooting mailman.

Also, could we use a short faq page that lists some common search terms 
and their local format/style? This would cover things like the space 
in "MAC OS".

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Re: [Mailman-Users] migrating mailman config

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Peter Matulis wrote:
> I am looking for guidance on migrating a mailman setup to a separate 
> server.  Is it better to start fresh?

Install 2.1.9 on the new server. Read FAQ 3.4 and check this list's archive,
it was discussed in the last couple of months.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Daylight savings

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jewel wrote:
> Still a newbie and was concerned about the daylight savings time issue. 
>   The server I have which runs Mailman only runs Mailman and nothing 
> else.   Will I need to install a patch or will Mailman not be affected 
> with the time change?

Mailman, like most applications/services, gets the time from the server 
OS, so you need to get updates for the OS timezone definitions.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mail not going to all members

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Paul Tomblin wrote:
> Quoting Mark Sapiro ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > Please keep conversations on the list unless there are specific privacy
> > concerns.
> 
> I know it's a contentious issue, but if you want conversations to continue
> on the list then you should make the list set the reply-to back to the
> list.

It would be far easier for the sender to hit "reply all" (as I just did) 
than change the list settings.

YMMV, of course.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Splitting Subject

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:
> Am having a problem where Mailman is splitting a subject and adding a "\n" 
> and what seems to be a tab in the subject line in the mail logs.(The tab is 
> what can be seen in the headers after the message is sent.)  This of course, 
> makes for a wrong display in mail clients. 

This was just discussed last week (or the week before). In short, the 
subject-line folding is correct, the mail client behavour is not.
Please check this list's archives for a discussion.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Splitting Subject

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:
> I saw that, but it is not really an answer as te problem is that it is 
> inserting a 
> TAB, not whitespace, and that is what is causing the problem.  A carriage 
> return and spaces would be fine. The tab is what most clients cannot 
> handle.

A tab character (^i or 0x11) -is- whitespace. (Also, in most implimentations,
newline, formfeed, vertical tab, and carrage return.)  Unicode defines 
even more.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Fw: problem in Makefile for mailman

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> This is not our Makefile. I can only guess that it is a FreeBSD port
> Makefile.
> 
> > But after installation (FreeBSD 6.2, /usr/ports/mail/mailman) when I send

Yep, it's a FreeBSD port.  While I run both free and open bsd, I've found
that there are a few things better installed from original source. 
Mailman is one of them.  The only thing that the port really gives is
the uname/group consistent with fbsd standards. You can easily pull that
out of the makefile.

(ISTR that the tcl port lags the actual release a bit, too. Can't think
of the others off hand.)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Fw: problem in Makefile for mailman

[Carl Zwanzig]

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Geo wrote:
> >I installed FreeBSD6.2 by FTP from ftp.freebsd.org and installed Mailman

> This is not our Makefile. We don't know what it looks like. We can't
> tell you how to make it work.

To repeat myself, the solution is to -not- use the freebsd port. Install
mailman from it's source, using it's procedures. You'll have less headaches.

The bsd ports/packages system is a wonderful thing, IMHO better than 
pretty much all of the linux-based ones, but sometimes a software
package just installs better from it's released source code or sometimes
you need a compile option that just isn't handled by the port makefiles.
/usr/local/src can be your friend :-)

z!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 6/3/2011 4:56 AM, Khalil Abbas wrote:

The servers are all vps'es with 256 ram..


vps? If you mean they're vertual servers, then at least give them more RAM! 
(Have you watched the processes with top while running? Where are the 
-actual- bottlenecks?)



my question is, is this a good solution? or should I split them into very
small lists then send the same message every hour after making sure that the
servers finished distributing the mail for the previous lists?


I think the consensus is that it's not. Might work, but not good.  But... 
RAM is cheap, servers are cheap,  why not just replace the hardware? A few 
months ago I bought a used dual Opteron 2.6gH server with 2g ram for about 
$125 at a local reseller. Just needed a disk.  You may spend more time 
hacking around with parameters and segmenting lists than building and 
replacing the box, and then you'll have have a more generally powerful server.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 6/3/2011 9:10 AM, Khalil Abbas wrote:


I don't want to use the throttling patch as it's not stable and not tested
before .. so I have 2 ways, either rebooting the servers like I'm doing now,
or splitting the lists into smaller ones and send to bunch of small lists
every our ..

what do u think?

(Did you mean "you"?)

Not to be harsh, but that you're not looking in the right direction. Yes, 
splitting the lists -might- help, but then might not. You'll also loose some 
advantages of one list, such as grouping recipients on the same domain into 
fewer SMTP transactions, and list maintenance will become more of a hassle. 
 Restarting the processes, or, gasp, rebooting the server does not solve 
the problem, it makes it go away for a while. It's not a valid -solution-.


And, you -do- have other ways to analyze and solve the problem but seem 
reluctant to do that. Other people have provided good suggestions (more RAM 
or CPU, remove other processes that may be hogging the system, get off a VM 
if that's what you're using, etc). You can use thing like 'top' to see where 
the resources are going. If mailman needs 500mb of virtual memory and takes 
a long time to deliver that list, everything will fall over when the next 
list starts trying. Eventually, the system will spend more time paging than 
running code.


FWIW, my mail server has been up for 436 days and has only 64mb of ram :). 
Granted it doesn't try to run a 30k member list. I'd use a larger server for 
that.


Have you read:
http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+Performance+Tuning+for+Mail+Delivery ?
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030582
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030711

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Server Configuration..

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 6/25/2011 11:15 AM, Khalil Abbas wrote:

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS =5 WOULD BE OK? OR SHOULD I REDUCE OR INCREASE IT FOR HOTMAIL
AND YAHOO TO ACCEPT OUR MESSAGES?


Have you read the FAQ sections on performance and searched the archive for 
discussions? There have been a few about this.  Can your ISP deal with the 
load? Do you have appropriate SPF/etc set up. IP addresses that aren't 
likely to be blacklisted? Server performance is only half the battle.


z!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about "Reply to All"

[Carl Zwanzig]

You could filter messages discarding anything with the X-BeenThere header, 
this would prevent any message that came out of mailman from being processed 
again. OTOH I suspect that an announce-only list would be preferable.


z!

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Re: [Mailman-Users] problem sending multiple listserv commands via email

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 11/1/2011 12:29 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:


In the case below, the first command attempted to subscribe an address
which is already a member so it failed and the remaining commands were
unprocessed.


Why is that an error?  I would expect it to ignored, just like setting a 
property to it's current value.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to export and import a mailman members list?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 11/30/2011 11:56 PM, Levent Elpen wrote:

How to export and import a mailman members list?

And how I can restore a members list on a new server from a mailman list
backup?


If you have shell access, you can usually copy the entire list directory to 
the new server, which will get you members & settings. You can also use 
list_members and add_members to extract and enter.


If you don't have shell access, you can use bulk add in member management to 
put them in.


I'm sure there's a FAQ on this, have you checked?

z!

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Thoughts about migrating to Mailman instead of Sympa (from Majordomo)

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 1/20/2012 1:05 AM, Mailman Admin wrote:

On 2012-01-19 19:32, Geoff Mayes wrote:

Does anyone know a way around the emailed passwords issue in Mailman,
clever hacks, certain plugins, or a timeline for Mailman 3's release?


You can stop the cronjob used to email reminders.
With this you don't email them to the users, but they will still be
saved in clear text in Mailman.


You can also easily change the code to leave it out of the reminder.

z!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and delivery of messages

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 1/27/2012 8:21 AM, Mallory S Woods II wrote:

 I added a gmail account to the list so that
I could test to see if the message had gone through.


Please refer to the FAQ:

http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/I+use+Gmail-Googlemail%2C+but+I+can%27t+tell+if+any+of+my+messages+have+been+posted+to+the+list

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Re: [Mailman-Users] slow "out" queue

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/1/2012 3:57 PM, Anil Jangity wrote:


I have these set in mm_cfg.py:

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 15
SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 50

It seems Qrunner isn't honoring those?


Did you restart the qrunners after changing those settings?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] confused by group mismatch

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 4/30/2012 11:02 AM, Chad Rebuck wrote:

I've had a list running fine for months, but after I restored my
complete disk from backup I am getting this message when posting to
the list:


: Command died with status 2:
"/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post a2-16v-list". Command output: Group
mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as
group "80", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group
"mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "80",
or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
`--with-mail-gid=mailman'.


Have you run check_perms and fixed whatever it said? Specifically, check the 
permissions on /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman (on my system: -rwxr-sr-x).


(Your alias file might use "wrapper", and /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper -> 
mailman)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Unable to approve messages

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 9/7/2012 12:05 AM, Alex TW LAM wrote:


But after they entered "Approved " in the first line of the confirm
mail (email command). Nothing would happened, list members would not receive
posted, nor would the moderator received "Confirmation succeeded" message.


Did they change email clients or domains? IIRC, the Approved line has to be 
the first line of the message body, and some MUAs add other spacing or 
headers. Have them bcc you on an approve message and then look at the raw 
message itself.


I think this might be a FAQ, but I'm not going to check at the moment.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Automated Subscription Bots Inundating List Owners With Subscription Requests

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 10/22/2012 11:55 PM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

I recently got 30 new comments on my blog, all of which were spam.
And of course I'm using a CAPTCHA there. So Brad's point is probably
valid.


I don't like captcha's either, and one of their problems is that they're so 
easy to see programatically.


I've seen an interesting method in use:
Right above the form, the page text says "Enter the word blue below", it's 
in body text. In the form, there's a box named whatsthecolor (or maybe just 
'fred'). User enters "blue" and everything goes on. I think it unlikely that 
anyone will code their bot to parse the correct word out of the body text 
and enter it in the right form field.


I've used a similar method for help email to places like yahoo. At the 
bottom of the text I ask "Please tell me your favorite color so I know I'm 
working with a real person." Seems to work.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] POST based subscribe attacks

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 10/28/2012 1:27 PM, Ben Cooksley wrote:


Alternately, is anyone aware of any form of CAPTCHA protection which
can be applied to Mailman?


There was a recent thread that discussed this very thing: starting at 
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/msg61769.html.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate Messages

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 1/6/2013 11:31 AM, David Andrews wrote:

My Mailman system sends out duplicate (two copies) of some
administrative-type messages.  There are two password reminder messages sent
out each month, two copies of the once-a-day message that announces pending
messages in a list, and two messages each morning at 8:00 a.m. from the list
mailman.


Do you have two cron jobs en-queued? Maybe one set as user 'mailman' and 
another as 'root'.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Attachment with welcome message

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/12/2013 6:37 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 18:17:06 +0530
"Amit Bhatt"  wrote:



I wish to send an attached file with list guidelines via welcome


Does it need to be an attachment?  Why not enter the guidelines into the
body of the message as plain text?


That was my first thought. Put all the info in the main message (and make 
sure there's a readable text/plain part, too). Doesn't guarantee that it'll 
be read, but higher probability than if the user has to do something extra, 
like click on the attachment.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] strange problem

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 3/13/2013 8:01 AM, Bruce Harrison wrote:

All of a sudden it seems that mailman is adding an address to the CC
field.  It's a bad address, of the form xxx...@mailman.utm.edu (this is
our mailman box).


Are you sure it's mailman? Unless there's some rewriting going on, that's 
done by the MUA.  Could be new users or new mail clients mangling the header 
when replying.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] receive your own posts problem

[Carl Zwanzig]

Hi,

On 4/10/2013 9:15 AM, Neil Anuskiewicz wrote:

I just setup a small mailman list (hosted by Bluehost) for a small
organization. I've set "Receive your own posts to the list?" to yes but i'm
still not receiving my own posts.

I'm wondering how might go about resolving this issue?


Resolve it by getting off gmail...


Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3


Please read the FAQ for, well, frequently asked questions. It points to:
http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/I+use+Gmail-Googlemail%2C+but+I+can%27t+tell+if+any+of+my+messages+have+been+posted+to+the+list

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[Mailman-Users] Reporting messages counts/size by user

[Carl Zwanzig]

Hi,

This came up on another list I read- is there any relatively simple way to 
(a) report individual message activity to a user and (b) temporarily 
moderate a user when a count is exceeded?


The first would send an email to the user when they've exceeded a threshold* 
in a given period.


*messages to the list, total word count, quoted lines/total size, etc

The second, triggered by the first's info, would set the mod bit for a user 
exceeding the limit and send an email that they've been auto-moderated.


I've got some ideas, but not sure where to start with this. Maybe a handler 
in the incoming pipeline that does the counts and updates a database (use a 
pickle?), then a cron job to leaf through that database, send the warnings, 
and set moderation.


The list in question is plain text (html-scrubbed), but I realize that with 
the various messages encapsulations used, we may not catch everything, and 
that's OK. Also, this list is only a few hundred members, so this doesn't 
need to scale out to tens of thousands.


Oh, ya- mailman 2.1.17.

Thanks,

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Reporting messages counts/size by user

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 12/13/2013 9:40 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote:


TBH: it sounds as though you may be trying to solve a social problem,
not a technological one.


Yep, it's a social/behavioral problem, but social methods (i.e. "trim your 
messages", "(whine) it's too hard on an ipad") haven't worked.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Non-Members Get Messages

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 3/20/2014 11:05 AM, Peter Fiala - WCASA wrote:

Someone emails me and requests to be taken off the list. I go to remove
them and they are not members. They confirm that they are not on the list
under any other email address. How could this possibly happen?


Have you checked both the mailman and smtp logs to see if the address is 
being sent the mail by mailman? It's possible that some other entity is 
forwarding or redirecting the email.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] building a new mailman server

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 3/26/2014 3:33 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

I'd be inclined to chose Postfix over Exim simply because Postfix is
more popular, and new things (e.g. Mailman 3) tend to be implemented
first for Postfix.


FWIW, I found postfix to be generally easier to deal with than the others. 
And the config files don't look like line noise with comments :).


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Re: [Mailman-Users] building a new mailman server

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 3/27/2014 2:48 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote:

I don't know if it's down to popularity or not, but I notice far more
questions on this list concerning Postfix than I do exim.


I suspect it's due to installed base- my very unscientific survey says that 
there are far more sendmail and postfix sites than exim sites. (In the end, 
I also suspect this is rather like the perl/tcl/python/ruby arguments; take 
whatever works for you and run with it.)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Password reminders

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 8/1/2014 9:11 AM, Peter Brooks wrote:


Does anybody know why mailman stores passwords in clear text?


Because it was easy?

http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+2.1+Members+Manual
6 Passwords
Do NOT use a valuable password for Mailman, since it can be sent in plain 
text to you.



Are there any plans to tighten the security up?

http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+3.0


Later,

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Re: [Mailman-Users] New To Mailman

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 8/9/2014 5:23 AM, Anthony (N2KI) wrote:


  As of late,
many of the messages that have been sent range from getting marked by gmail
as spam to completely bounced by Verizon (using the phone number @ vtext.com
syntax).My thought was to find a different/alternate email server
program that I can do the same thing with.


A different mailing list manager isn't likely to help the problem; sounds 
like you're running into spam traps and message authentication issues. 
Unless you can relay through your ISP's mail server or want to become 
conversant in things like SPF and DMARC, it's probably best to contract this 
service.


(I wonder if there's a Thunderbird plug-in that will do what's needed here?)

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Moderation notifications for the sender?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 9/14/2014 10:53 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

There is no explicit option per se, but the sender should receive a copy
of the post or an acknowledgment if the sender's "Receive
acknowledgement mail when you send mail to the list?" option is Yes, at
least if the sender is a list member.


Unless the sender is using gmail and it decides to filter them out.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Moderation notifications for the sender?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 9/15/2014 8:35 AM, christian studer wrote:


And then there is inofficial stuff (Party invites mostly) and accidental
mails from members of one list to one or multiple other lists. Those mails
are hitting moderation, I remove the accidental stuff and let the party
invites through. But the senders are always unsure if their mails are
reaching their audience.


It sounds like you're looking for a technical solution to a non-technical 
problem. Unless the party-invite senders are added all the target lists, I 
think they'll have to take your word that the messages have been let through.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] MM-2.1.12 Bug (non critical)

[Carl Zwanzig]

J.A. Terranson wrote:

On Fri, 15 May 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:

Please let me know specifically what you would like to see instead.


Really, I'd prefer a button to select from regex or text search.  That 
aside, a note at the top of the box stating this is *not* a text search, 
see "help" for more informatoin on how to search" or something like that.


Its just very counterintuitive to have a box that says search for members, 
and to be unable to insert a members actual address and get a hit.



I've run into this with countless applications- the programmer uses a 
regexp since it's so powerful, but the user expects to enter "zba*" 
and get everything starting with "zba". Ditto on not finding something 
you can see in a listing.  Remember that while many list admins are 
either programmers or system managers, many are just users, and 
wouldn't know a regexp if it bit them.


IMHO, some options (in order of my desirability)...
radio buttons to select regexp or glob behavior (default to glob?)
text around the box that says "it's a regexp"
make the search use a glob

If I had the time at the moment, I'd think about developing a patch 
for this, but I don't, so I won't.


> On Fri, 15 May 2009, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> The page currently says "Find member (help):" followed by a text box
> and a "Search..." button. The "(help)" is a link to a page documenting
> Python regular expressions.

However, the average user -knows- that "zba*" should match "zbang". 
They don't think they need any help.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman with Multi Mail Server

[Carl Zwanzig]

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

Dear all, Could Mailman be configured with multi mail server (at least 2
mail server) at the same time ? So that It can transfer huge numbers of
emails at the same time . If yes, please let me know how to configure It.


You really don't need to do that. Have you read the Performance section of 
the FAQ? Some -very- large lists manage to do without this 'feature'.  After 
that, it's an MTA and bandwidth issue, not a mailman issue.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to monitor mailman transaction

[Carl Zwanzig]

Hien HUYNH HUU wrote:

Dear all, How can we monitor mailman transaction with Mail Server ? It
means how could we know that how many email are delivered from mailman to
mail server at a time point ? I check qfile/out but It didn't show
exactly .


You can either look at mailman's logs, at the MTA's logs, or watch the
connection with something like wireshark/ethereal.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Increasing the Speed of Email Delivery

[Carl Zwanzig]

Lots of it depends on the MTA (general opinion is that postfix seems to be 
the fastest), connectivity, and list settings (personalized email will take 
much longer).  Check out the FAQ for performance, and as Adam mentioned, the 
list archives)


FWIW, before you change hardware, have you looked at which resources are 
constrained? Also, if it's a dedicated server, why are you using cpanel?


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up redundant mailing lists in OS X SnowLeopard.

[Carl Zwanzig]

JRC Groups wrote:


Is there a way to set-up user preferences so that every user can have its
subscription set to either receive or block attachments ? This would make
things a lot easier and allow me to address this issue very easily.


It might be easier to achieve with user education. Many 'modern' mail 
clients can be configured to automatically (or not) download attachments and 
whether (or not) to display images.  I know Thunderbird does this, and IIRC 
outlook will, too.  And, of course, web mail generally doesn't download 
anything (except images, that's usually configurable) until someone clicks 
on the link.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 1/19/2010 8:11 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote:


If you mean that Mailman could provide NNTP access to it's message
store then that would be great !!!


Here's the catch- mailman is a mailing list manager (or remailer, if you 
prefer), not a message storage system, so it doesn't -have- a persistent 
message store. There may be a list archive, but that isn't something that 
would be easily accessible on a per message ID basis (w/o a bunch of extra 
hackery).  If the existing archive function was replaced by a database-type 
thing, that could allow the sort of access that I think you want, but that's 
also outside the scope of list management. You might want to look into the 
replacement archivers to see if they do what you want.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] distributing load to multiple server for announce-only list.

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/19/2010 6:34 PM, bob 001 wrote:

Can someone suggest distributed server configuration of fairly large
(50k+ messages ) announce only list?


 Is it possible to distribute such load?  Or it should be done at

postfix level? Any suggestions?


Have you looked at the performance FAQ?
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030582

The bottleneck is more likely to be in the MTA or network, not in mailman.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] /var/lib/mailman/archives/private 90% full

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 2/24/2010 3:27 PM, Sandi Gruver wrote:


So I go in and manually gzip the.mbox/.mbox file, but
that doesn't stop the growth. Yesterday I read about not gzipping
the/2009-December.txt files so turned that off in mailman's
cron. But ...


The only way to stop an archive from growing is to stop archiving messages. 
You could, however, edit the archive mbox to remove old messages and 
regenerate the pages. Check out-

http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030681 and
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=7602232

You could also move the archives to a bigger file system, but doesn't 
eliminate the problem, it just puts it off.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Outlook Vote Buttons vs Mailman

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 3/2/2010 4:33 AM, Kammen van, Marco, Springer SBM NL wrote:

Is it correct to assume that as soon as a message leaves the Exchange
system and is processed by another mailer with Mailman, that voting
buttons created in Outlook are cut off?


If the voting buttons are implemented with html (or other scripting) and 
anything in the processing chain strips html/etc, then they're gone. Could 
be mailman, could be the recipient's mail reader, could be something else.



If so are there any known solutions for this?
Either don't, or more selectively, scrub html. Or, don't use Outlook 
(someone has to say it).


It's also possible that the use in question has certain display 'features' 
disabled, and that prevented the voting buttons from appearing.  (For 
example, I have my email set up to never display html email unless I 
specifically ask for it.)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Block reply to all

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 4/30/2010 7:23 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

* Schwartz, Robert - IS:


Does anyone know a way to block a reply to all?  I would like my users
to not be able to reply to all to post a message.  If the want to post
a message, they should post it not just reply to a previous message.


Set the reply-to: to something wrong :)


Kinda defeats the purpose of replying at all.

Robert-
Why?? Most mailing lists are a conversation (of sorts). You say one thing 
and I say something relevant to that (like this). Almost all messaging 
happens like that (email, web fora, chat systems, SMS, etc).  Do you want to 
prevent two-way conversation, force every message to me a "new" message, or 
what?


Also, reply-all is a MUA function, not an MTA function, so changing the 
behavior of Mailman is kind of a band-aid solution.


(That aside, you could look at the subject for a "Re:" or similar tag, but 
that's not reliable. You could look for mailman's X-BeenThere or 
X-Mailman-Version headers, which would be better... OTOH, these will prevent 
-all- replies that go to the list, not just reply-all.)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Seeking Email Client Recommendation - Specific use scenario

[Carl Zwanzig]

AFAICT, your option is Thunderbird. (I haven't verified all of your 
requirements, though.)


Other than  Eudora and Outlook/Entourage, what have you looked at and what's 
been discarded?


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Seeking Email Client Recommendation - Specific use scenario

[Carl Zwanzig]

One thing I will mention about thunderbird-  IMNSHO, version 3 is bad news. 
 I use it, but there are several obvious things that don't work well or 
correctly (list omitted as being off-topic). I haven't been annoyed enough 
to drop back a version, but some people have. Go with version 2 unless 3 has 
a feature that you really need.


z!

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Maximum number of members per list

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 6/7/2010 4:59 AM, J.A. Terranson wrote:

Are you suggesting bolting on an SNMP interface?  That *would* be very
useful indeed, especially for resellers of mailman facilities.


Not speaking for the mailman developers, IMHO doing an snmp interface would 
be a colossal time sink. It would also be like trying to tighten a screw 
with a strawberry, or maybe a haddock- it's just the wrong tool for the job. 
snmp agents are not something that you generally whip out, anyway.


For mailman version 2, using command line tools is really the way to go.

What would be useful for mailman resellers is things like compete virtual 
domain handling (in v3) and additional management bits, but I don't see much 
utility in grafting those into the v2 distribution when v3 is being 
developed.  Even better would be for those resellers to actively contribute 
to v3 design and development (i.e. be part of the community).


z!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman right for us?

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 7/21/2010 2:12 AM, Alison Epstein wrote:

We're considering using Mailman for our organization's listservs. But I'm
having trouble finding a demo to try or some screen snapshots so that I can
even determine if this is the right software for us.


There is no demo, but since it's free, all you have to do is download and 
install it.  Also "listserv" is a trademark of another mailing list manager 
(MLM), please don't use it to generically refer to a mailing list.



I need something for our discussion lists. (We also have announce-only lists.)
The discussion lists ideally would have an archive that is accessible.
Also, some of our lists need to have the ability to have multiple
"moderators / posters" who may or may not be list subscribers.

Got all that.

Check out the FAQ for some of these answers-

Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3


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Re: [Mailman-Users] network pressure ..

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 8/15/2010 6:22 PM, Khalil Abbas wrote:


godaddy has told me that my server is making a pressure on their network
and causing them problems because its sending too much data to the relay
system very fast,


What Godaddy is telling you is that their mail servers are either 
underpowered or improperly configured. (Well, that is if you're mailman is 
reasonable configured and isn't doing full personalization.)



is there a way to tell mailman to distribute certain amount of messages
over a certain period of time ??


Did you check the FAQ and list archives for that? (But, the answer is no, 
not really.)


z!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Spam emails

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 12/8/2010 6:52 AM, Schwartz, Robert - IS wrote:

Recently I've started receiving spam messages submitted to by mailing
list.  How can I reject all email not submitted by members without having
to add them to a list?


There's an admin check box to reject & discard non-member messages. Check 
the FAQ for more details. (That'll answer you other question, too).  Also, 
are you spam-filtering before the email gets to mailman? It's a good idea.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Are any attachments ok to allow on a listserv?

[Carl Zwanzig]

FWIW, all the lists I operate have a 40-100kb message size limit. The list 
join message tells the users about this and that I will silently drop their 
large msgs if they send too many of them (and I/we don't accept anything 
more than about 300-400kb, anyway).


I've also used a reject message that explains the concept of 
cut-from-msword, paste-into-text, and that the info is usually more 
important than the pretty format.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Detecting mail with multiple From: lines

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 5/22/2011 8:44 PM, Richard Stallman wrote:

Do you mean to say that the people at CSAIL ought to switch to using
SpamAssasin instead of filtering in Mailman?


Use the best tool for each job, and know that the Swiss Army knife approach 
is usually not the best at anything.  (Or, why filter out spam with a 
mailing list manager when there's a perfectly good spam filter tool...)


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Re: [Mailman-Users] reboot servers

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 6/1/2011 3:31 AM, Mollatt Ntini wrote:


I think Ralf is right. Lower the process limit, else your load will stay on
high and you may lose or end up having duplicated messages. Maybe other
problems too.


Defintely.  If you don't have the resources for instant use, you need to get 
them or use them more gradually. Lowering the postfix process count will 
help that. IIRC, you can twiddle mailman to attempt fewer message per MTA 
connection. You can remove other loads from the system (what else is it 
doing?). Rebooting is not the answer, and really unnecessary if you 
stop/start the big processes.


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