Re: [Mailman-Users] Domain problem in post action on admindb forms for multi-domain mailman

[Andrew Hodgson]

Martin Brampton wrote:

>I'm running Mailman 2.1.13 from the Debian Squeeze repositories (on Debian 
>Squeeze) to provide mailing lists across several domains.  The >domains that 
>are not the primary mailing list domain have 301 redirects of URLs such as 
>.../listinfo/ or .../admin/ to the primary >domain.

>In most cases this works, because the action in the form is relative, and the 
>page is showing on the primary domain on account of the redirects.  >When the 
>form is submitted, the request therefore goes to the primary mailman domain.  
>(Other domains are typically on different servers >from Mailman, and do not 
>have Mailman installed at all).

So from what you are saying, you are running Mailman in several domains, at the 
root of the domain (for example, listn...@example.com instead of 
listn...@lists.example.com), and example.com is typically hosted off a separate 
web server?

Instead of using redirects, have you looked at using Mod_Proxy to do the 
redirection at the backend on the web server hosting domain.com?

Thanks.
Andrew. 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Striping out original DKIM header

[Andrew Hodgson]

Syafril Hermansyah [syaf...@dutaint.co.id] wrote:

>My list has been run smoothly so far, but I got complaint from list
>member who use yahoo.com family domain, all of their own posting goes to
>to spam folder.

>I suspect this is because mailman not stripe out original DKIM header so
>that the DKIM verification going bad,

[...]

>It does pass DKIM for domain python.org but not pass (BAD) for my own
>domain (my domain has DKIM key).
>This is logically correct since DKIM also sign for content of the
>message and since Mailman alter the content I think she should remove
>original DKIM header.

Simply add the following to mm_cfg.py:

REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = Yes

Taken from defaults.py:

# Some list posts and mail to the -owner address may contain DomainKey or
# DomainKeys Identified Mail (DKIM) signature headers .
# Various list transformations to the message such as adding a list header or
# footer or scrubbing attachments or even reply-to munging can break these
# signatures. It is generally felt that these signatures have value, even if
# broken and even if the outgoing message is resigned. However, some sites
# may wish to remove these headers by setting this to Yes.
REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = No

Note that there is various discussions around this topic, I had a similar issue 
with Yahoo, what I ended up doing was signing the messages leaving Mailman 
using the MTA, and not stripping any DKIM header.  This works fine now and 
Yahoo subscribers are receiving mail.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Striping out original DKIM header

[Andrew Hodgson]

Syafril Hermansyah wrote:

>On 10/10/11 17:45, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

>>> I suspect this is because mailman not stripe out original DKIM header 
>>> so that the DKIM verification going bad,
>> 
>> Simply add the following to mm_cfg.py:
>> 
>> REMOVE_DKIM_HEADERS = Yes
>

>> Taken from defaults.py:

>My fault, I should check that file first :-(

>Thank you.

>Does this setting also removing DomainKey-Signature as well (generate by gmail 
>users)?
>I was using work around by removing those header using postfix's header check.

I believe it will do yes, as this feature was introduced when Domain Keys was 
still in active development and used a lot more than it is now.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sending to Exchange 2010 Mail service.

[Andrew Hodgson]

Collins, Alex wrote:

>Hi Everyone. 

>We run  Mailman as a department. Our core mail service is Exchange 2010.
>Exchange is running in Shadow Redundancy mode which means it uses a Message DE 
>duplication system.
>I'm lead to believe that this is based on the Message-ID. (Please correct me 
>if I'm wrong !)

I am sure other people will give you pointers to do this, but you don't happen 
to have more info about the Exchange side doing this do you?  I am surprised 
that it will actually filter messages going to people's mailboxes, even if they 
have the same Message-ID.  I haven't seen this on the Exchange boxes I run, and 
we use Mailman in a similar way - Exchange distribution lists are no good if 
you want multiple internal and external recipients to be added and removed from 
the list.

Andrew. 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mollom content filtering service?

[Andrew Hodgson]

David wrote: 

>Is anyone using the Mollom service  with Mailman? Or does 
>anyone know of a similar content filtering/spam service that >is easy to 
>integrate with Mailman and Postfix?

On initial checking it looks like more of a service one would use for blogs or 
comment forms rather than Mailman, the input for Mailman is email and not via 
web forms.  I am not even sure whether this would be useful on the subscription 
form, since you aren't posting any message to it other than the email address 
and name of the person, and you can verify subscriptions by use of a 
confirmation message, subscription moderation or either/both.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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[Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

Following comments on this list over the last few days I thought I would try 
out Mailman/Htdig integration on my setup.  I tried this on a sandbox VM I have 
here and everything seemed to go well, I did have to change some of the values 
for the URLs etc as I don't use the /mailman path in the URLs.  Everything 
worked in test so I pushed the changes out to the production system.

I did the following to enable:

Set the Htdig integration to enabled in mm_cfg.py
Run the arch command on the lists to generate the relevant pages with the 
search links at the top.
Run the nightly_htdig script to generate the search indexes.

Everything works fine, but if someone posts to a list it appears that the 
archive page gets re-generated without the search box at the top.  I feel I 
have missed something blindingly obvious and I am going to kick myself when I 
find out what it is but at the moment I am still searching!

Here is the relevant part of mm_cfg.py:
USE_HTDIG = 1
HTDIG_FILES_URL = '/htdigimages/'
HTDIG_HTSEARCH_PATH = '/usr/lib/cgi-bin/htsearch'
HTDIG_RUNDIG_PATH = '/usr/bin/rundig'

Any suggestions greatfully received.
Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration

[Andrew Hodgson]

From: Mark Sapiro [m...@msapiro.net]
Sent: 17 May 2012 23:43
To: Andrew Hodgson; mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration

>Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>>
>>Everything works fine, but if someone posts to a list it appears that the 
>>archive page gets re-generated without the search box at the top.  I feel I 
>>have missed something blindingly obvious and I am going to >kick myself when 
>>I find out what it is but at the moment I am still searching!


>Did you restart Mailman? If not, the old archtoc(nombox).html template
>is cached in ArchRunner.

That was it, once it was restarted everything worked fine!

Thanks for that, I knew it was something simple!
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

One other question if I may:

When I run nightly_htdig -v to get the search engine updated, I get the 
following output:

htdig'ing archive of list: bcab-board
/bin/mv: `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/root2word.db' 
and `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/root2word.db' are the 
same file
/bin/mv: `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/word2root.db' 
and `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/word2root.db' are the 
same file
/bin/mv: `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/synonyms.db' and 
`/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/synonyms.db' are the same 
file

Any suggestions?
Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration

[Andrew Hodgson]

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:m...@msapiro.net] 
Sent: 18 May 2012 20:27
To: Andrew Hodgson; mailman-users@python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration

>Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>>
>>One other question if I may:
>>
>>/bin/mv: 
>>`/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/synonyms.db' and 
>>`/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcab-board/htdig/synonyms.db' are 
>>the same file

>The nightly_htdig script runs the rundig shell script pointed to by 
>mm_cfg.HTDIG_RUNDIG_PATH

>My version (3.2.0b6 + some patches from
><ftp://ftp.ccsf.org/htdig-patches/3.2.0b6/>) of that script doesn't look like 
>it does those mv commands.

Weird. I am using the Debian version but have downloaded the source and it has 
the following in the rundig script:

case "$alt" in
-a)
  ( cd $DBDIR && test -f db.docdb.work &&
for f in *.work
do
mv -f $f `basename $f .work`
done
test -f db.words.db.work_weakcmpr &&
mv -f db.words.db.work_weakcmpr db.words.db_weakcmpr) ;;
esac

The nightly_htdig script doesn't I believe seem to use the -a option but it 
looks as though that is being done anyway.  The patch on the FTP site for the 
rundig command seems to fix another issue with the script.

Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig integration

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

This is a Debian specific issue, look at:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=506448

Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] understanding Yahoo's "email temporarily deferred due to user complaints"

[Andrew Hodgson]

From: Dave (FitEyes)
Sent: 07 June 2012 18:37
To: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] understanding Yahoo's "email temporarily deferred due 
to user complaints"

>We received the following message from Yahoo. We want to understand what 
>happened and how to resolve it.

>: delivery temporarily suspended: host 
>mta5.am0.yahoodns.net[209.191.88.254] refused to talk to me: 421 4.7.0 >[TS01] 
>Messages from  temporarily deferred due to user complaints - 
>4.16.55.1; see http://postmaster.yahoo.com/421->ts01.html

>The message has an attachment named noname.eml (as well as a details.txt 
>file). We are assuming this noname.eml is the triggering email >(maybe the one 
>that was complained about). (BTW, it was not spam.)

Those aren't the messages that triggered this, it is likely these attachments 
were generated from your system which was having trouble sending to the Yahoo 
accounts.

Please read the documents at:

http://feedbackloop.yahoo.net/

If you are DKIM signing your messages this is good as it allows you to 
participate in the program, I participate in the program and get the complaints 
that users make (when they click the spam button in their mail client) directly.

Since signing up for the program I have no issue delivering to Yahoo addresses.

>This first response from Yahoo listed (in details.txt) 150 out of about 600 
>total Yahoo members on our list. These were the email addresses that >we could 
>not send to for 4 hours. There were 4 subsequent similar messages (each with a 
>noname.eml attachment) from Yahoo (so 5 in total) >and now this affects 450 
>out of 600 Yahoo members on our list.

Yep, you are being throttled so some of the messages will get through, but 
others will be subject to the delay.  There is no pattern on which addresses 
will go through or not, it depends on which order the MTA tries to deliver the 
message.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.15 final released.

[Andrew Hodgson]

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>I am happy to announce the final release of Mailman 2.1.15. This release is 
>identical to the 2.1.15rc1 release except for the version number and >the 
>inclusion of a missing part of the HTML installation manual.

Thanks for this as ever, quality release.  I upgraded in a very short space of 
time, all working well.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.15 final released.

[Andrew Hodgson]

David wrote:

>On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

>> I am happy to announce the final release of Mailman 2.1.15.

>How would I update from the version of Mailman 2.1.14 from Ubuntu's repository 
>(on Ubuntu 12.04)?

Ubuntu won't update this package by the normal route until the next version of 
Ubuntu is released (probably 12.10).  There are a couple of options:

1.  Build Mailman from source and run the version you want with the patches you 
want.

2.  Look at using packages from the testing/unstable Debian archives.

I have done option 1, build my own Mailman from source with the Htdig search 
engine patches.

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[Mailman-Users] Personalisation: how long does it take?

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

Just wondering how long in the real world it takes to get all messages from a 
personalised list sent out and processed by the MTA on the same machine as 
Mailman?  List is around 750 members.  I did run this once and it took over 10 
minutes to get all the messages delivered through the MTA, I am partially 
wondering whether that is because I am DKIM signing each message?  If I use 
standard delivery the processing time is a lot shorter (around a minute).

Just wondering,
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Personalisation: how long does it take?

[Andrew Hodgson]

Terry Earley wrote:

>I should also mention that this test was with DKIM signing and the number of 
>members was between 2100 and 2200.

Thanks, something is wrong with the setup or the VPS I use is not running 
efficiently.  What MTA are you using? I am on Exim4.

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[Mailman-Users] Refreshing list of addresses

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I want to refresh a list of email addresses in a member announcement list, I 
have the full names and email addresses in a text file.

I am going to set bounce options such that I can remove members straight away 
that are bouncing.

I have the following questions:

If I upload this text file as is, if the member is already subscribed, will it 
populate the name field?

If I remove all the members from the list, what is the easiest way of doing 
this without notifying everyone of this?

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Refreshing list of addresses

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for that.  I refreshed the list.  What is the best way of turning off 
bounce processing and receiving all bounces manually myself, or is that not 
possible?

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Migration of old debian woody mailman server

[Andrew Hodgson]

Peter Merritt wrote:

>I have to migrate a dead mailman server running on debian woody to a new 
>Ubuntu server. The drive failed and I was able to image the drive to >a new 
>drive but mailman will not run, seems that their is significant problems with 
>the current mailman installation. All the commands seem >die with python 
>tracebacks. The data directories for mailman seen to be OK. I did some 
>research on moving a list to a new server an it seems >reasonably easy. But I 
>am concerned about moving from an older version of mailman to a newer version. 
>Additionally, I am going to use postfix >for the mta, the old server is using 
>exim. I also notice postgres running on the old server and wonder if 
>exim/mailman could be using to for >management. I did not have time to fully 
>research the setup, its been running unattended for 8+ years.  I am looking 
>for input about possible >pitfalls and ideas to make this go easier Any help 
>would be greatly appreciated. 

This isn't an exhaustive list of things you will need to do but will go some 
way towards it:

You definitely need the files in /var/lib/mailman/archives, and 
/var/lib/mailman/lists.  When you install a new Mailman version, copy those 
directories over the top, then run check_perms as root, followed by the update 
command to get the lists config files updated to the new version.  You will 
need to look at the /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py file and merge changes from the old 
installation, namely for the hostnames/URL patterns etc.  Once you get some of 
the mailman commands running without errors, its time to configure Postfix and 
Apache to talk to the new installation.

Let us know how that goes.
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[Mailman-Users] Google Message Security (or similar) with Mailman

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I saw some messages at the beginning of the year on this topic, but not sure if 
they ever got addressed.  I am looking at going with an email filtering service 
to protect Mailman traffic, as I am getting a lot of spam addressed to the 
request addresses which cause backscatter and NDRs bouncing.  My initial 
concern is regarding quarrentining of list traffic and how this is handled at 
the Postini end.

Any help greatfully received as always.
Thanks,
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[Mailman-Users] Reducing Mailman backscatter

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I am getting seriously hounded by my server provider, who is receiving 
complaints from ISPs that my server running Mailman is sending users spam 
messages.  When looking into this further, I notice that these messages are 
mainly administrivia responses, and that all of them mostly come from non-list 
members.

Does anyone know any way of discarding messages to specific addresses (mainly 
requests addresses) where the member is not on the list?  Obviously the 
subscription addresses I would like to leave as is for the moment.

I have also set all the moderation settings to discard for non-members as well 
to see this this improves matters.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain and alias_maps

[Andrew Hodgson]

Michael Daly wrote:

>Hi
>I am having problems getting mail delivered to list members, on a virtual 
>domain. This did not happen when a conventional ie non virtual, domain.
>Maybe there is a problem with aliases...I had to manually create the 
>/usr/lib/mailman/data dir and both the 'alias' and 'virtual-mailman' files in 
>that dir

>(not sure of what contents should be in the described 'alias' and 
>'virtual-mailman' files)

>But running genaliases does not create the expected .db files

What output do you get after running it?

>In postfix I have:
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/lib/mailman/data/aliases

Not required.

virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual, 
hash:/usr/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

Yes.

>and I have created the list and configured mm_cfg.py as specified

So you set MTA to Postfix and populated POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS to 
your virtual domains?  

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Introduction

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi Chris,

>I currently moderate a few groups over at Yahoo, and am researching into mass 
>transferring all of them to Mailman.

The person who runs the Mailman site should be able to give you more help with 
this, but essentially you would need to grab a list of subscribers, then use 
the mass-subscription option in the Mailman web interface to get them into 
Mailman.  You will unfortunately lose the digest settings of the subscribers, 
so you would need to get them to set this back again.  Furthermore, you would 
lose any other information such as list archives stored in Yahoo.

If using IOS, there is an app for moderating Mailman lists available.

Hope this helps.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Introduction

[Andrew Hodgson]

Glenn Sieb wrote:

>On 12/8/13, 1:52 PM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>> Furthermore, you would lose any other information such as list
>> archives stored in Yahoo.

>...Unless you're snazzy with a system that runs Perl and you can run
>Yahoo2mbox to export the archives.

Looking at the home page, this no longer works either since the changes made in 
August of this year.

Oh well.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Some improvements to README.Exim4.Debian

[Andrew Hodgson]

Narcis Garcia wrote:

>I've making a setup for a Debian 7 (wheezy) trying to follow strictly
>the guide in README.Exim4.Debian , but there are two things that I think
>lack to that file:

Hi,

The best place to discuss the Mailman Debian package is the pkg-mailman-hackers 
list:

http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-mailman-hackers

Thanks.
Andrew.
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[Mailman-Users] Integrating Mailman database with Drupal

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

One of the lists I have ran for a few years now is looking to go to a web based 
forum hosted on Drupal with mail list features.  Before dropping Mailman 
entirely, I wanted to know if there was a reason to tie up the subscriber 
database with the Mailman account?  This is the main reason they are looking to 
move to the new system.  If the system was on the same host as Drupal, I could 
probably do it with the scripts, but it is likely the systems would be 
separated.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Andrew Hodgson]

Joe wrote:

>In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a message from 
>one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services that utilize a cPanel. 
>According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and one that >doesn't 
>provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT specialist I don't 
>know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of you enlighten 
>me ? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and how would it >not allow 
>me full control of my lists ?

I run Mailman lists for several charities running my own Mailman compiled from 
source with some modifications.  I do the work on the backend and if there are 
problems, I get support from myself or the list if I am stuck.  I manage other 
Linux systems and so it isn't a problem for me.  I don't want to pay the 
license to run CPanel on the servers, and that is the choice I made.

The CPanel system is a web based control panel which allows you to host amongst 
other things, a fully working Mailman setup.  Whilst the CPanel implementation 
is not standard as per the stock Mailman setup, it is arguably one of the most 
widely used versions of Mailman, and without it, I think Mailman would be far 
less used today.

I feel there is nothing wrong with the CPanel installation for most users, who 
want to create, manage and remove lists from their hosting domains.  Where the 
issue comes is with support, as only a CPanel specialist or CPanel themselves 
can really support the installation, as the Mailman community don't know fully 
what has been done to the installation to make it work with the CPanel 
environment.  It could also be possible for someone who is used to a stock 
Mailman installation to break the integration if they just go ahead and change 
stuff without forethought to the CPanel integration.  I myself am subscribed to 
several very high traffic lists who run Mailman under CPanel, and they have no 
issues at all that I know of.

My advice would be to look at the providers you have available, if some are 
using CPanel and you feel comfortable with the support they are offering, and 
the service fits your requirements, then don't let the fact they are using 
CPanel put you off.  It sounds like you would probably call out to someone else 
to support the system if it goes wrong anyhow.  If you have more bespoke 
requirements, and the CPanel integration wouldn't meet these (after talking to 
people on this list or companies who use CPanel), then go with a more tailored 
solution.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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[Mailman-Users] Mailman Htdig integration with Nginx - Path variables

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi all,

Wonder if someone could take a look at this for me?

I have moved our Mailman installation to Nginx.  Everything is working 
correctly, however, I am using the Htdig patch to get search functionality.

I got the split_path_info set up to work with Mailman, but I am having issues 
getting a working installation with the mmsearch script.  The initial page 
loads up, but when you refine the search or go to the next page, I get an error 
with the path splitting which causes the CGI to error.  I tried altering the 
path variable for the mmsearch script specifically, but the issue I am having 
is getting Nginx to split the path in the right place, since the scripts don't 
have an extension to work with (like I can use with PHP scripts etc.).  It's 
probably a simple fix, and I can set the location for the mmsearch script so it 
doesn't mess up the path variable for the other Mailman scripts if required.

My config is below, sorry for the formatting in my mailer.

Andrew.

# HTTP redirects - I had to use separate servers for each domain to stop 
redirecting to the wrong host
server {
listen 80;
server_name lists.domain1.com;
access_log off;
error_log off;
rewrite ^ https://$server_name$request_uri?$query_string permanent;
}

server {
listen 80;
server_name lists.domain2.com;
access_log off;
error_log off;
rewrite ^ https://$server_name$request_uri?$query_string permanent;
}

server {
listen 443 ssl;
server_name lists.domain1.com lists.domain2.com;
 access_log  /var/log/nginx/lists-access.log main;
error_log  /var/log/nginx/lists-error.log warn;
root /var/www/lists;
ssl_certificate /path/to/cert.pem
ssl_certificate_key /path/to/key.key
ssl_protocols TLSv1 TLSv1.1 TLSv1.2;
ssl_ciphers 
ECDH+AESGCM:DH+AESGCM:ECDH+AES256:DH+AES256:ECDH+AES128:DH+AES:ECDH+3DES:DH+3DES:RSA+AESGCM:RSA+AES:RSA+3DES:!aNULL:!MD5:!DSS;
ssl_prefer_server_ciphers on;
add_header Strict-Transport-Security "max-age=31536000; 
includeSubdomains";
ssl_stapling on;
ssl_stapling_verify on;

# Redirect to the listinfo page by default
location = / {
rewrite ^ /listinfo permanent;
}

# Send the requests to the various scripts to the correct location. URL 
https://server/listinfo etc.
location ~ 
^/(admin|confirm|edithtml|listinfo|options|rmlist|subscribe|admindb|create|htdig|private|roster|mmsearch)
 {
fastcgi_split_path_info (^/[^/]*)(.*)$;
fastcgi_param SCRIPT_FILENAME 
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/$fastcgi_script_name;
fastcgi_param PATH_INFO $fastcgi_path_info;
fastcgi_pass  unix:/var/run/fcgiwrap.socket;
include /etc/nginx/fastcgi_params;
}

location /icons {
alias /usr/local/mailman/icons;
}

location /pipermail {
alias /usr/local/mailman/archives/public;
}
location /htdigimages {
alias /var/lib/htdig/www;
}
}
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Htdig integration with Nginx - Path variables

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

Sorry to reply to my own post.

The issue was actually twofold:

There was an issue with the HTTP to HTTPS redirection on the site, and because 
I hadn't set the public archives parameter in mm_cfg.py to HTTPS, the system 
was offering up HTTP URLS.  I did this and rebuilt the archives for all lists.

The second issue is that the htdig CGI needs to be using HTTP and not HTTPS.  I 
made this available under the HTTP context so nightly_htdig can crawl the 
archives.  The htdig script is now not available under HTTPS.

I can post my current config if required.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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[Mailman-Users] Downgrade from Mailman 2.1.12 to 2.1.11

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I am currently on a Ubuntu 9.04 system and want to migrate to a new host which 
is running Debian Lenny.  Lenny has the Mailman 2.1.11 Debian package and the 
9.04 host has 2.1.12.  Will there be any issue of downgrading the mailing list 
data files?

Thanks.
Andrew.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Downgrade from Mailman 2.1.12 to 2.1.11

[Andrew Hodgson]

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>
>I am currently on a Ubuntu 9.04 system and want to migrate to a new host which 
>is running Debian Lenny.  Lenny has the Mailman 2.1.11 Debian package and the 
>9.04 host has 2.1.12.  Will there be any issue of downgrading the mailing list 
>data files?

>In general, there could be, but this particular downgrade is safe. In
>fact, I think any downgrade from 2.1.x to 2.1.y is safe as long as
>12 >= x > y >= 5. There are other downgrades that will work too, but
>without actually looking at the datafile changes, I'm not sure which
>ones will or won't. Downgrade from 2.1.x to 2.0.y is definitely not
>safe.

Thanks; I staged this on a VM running on my own system before putting it live; 
it seems to be working ok now.

Andrew. 


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Server skips Mailman - more

[Andrew Hodgson]

alexan...@nautae.eti.br wrote:

>I'm using postfix-to-mailman script.

I had a lot of problems with this and Postfix thinking the users were not known 
on the domain, causing 5XX bounces.  I think the reason for this is that 
Postfix does the recipient lookup at the SMTP stage, and doesn't run this 
script at this time, thus the alias never expands.

I followed the document at:

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node13.html

Look at the virtual domains section (I didn't initialy use this on Postfix 
because I only hosted lists at the one domain, and so didn't need multi-domain 
hosting).

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] help: lists set up and "successfully subscribed" but no one is getting the email

[Andrew Hodgson]

Heather Peterson wrote:

>I set up a new list and mass subscribed my whole office (5 people), but none 
>of us has received the welcome >message that I included, and when I did a test 
>email from outlook to the list, no one received it.
>Help!

You need to include more information with this, such as:

- The version of Mailman you are running.
- The MTA you are running.
- What steps you made to configure Mailman on the server, how did you integrate 
it with the MTA?

I checked the headers of your mail, and it seems like you are possibly using a 
CPanel setup, if so, read the FAQ entry at 
http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+and+CPanel.  Apologies if I was 
premature in that conclusion.

Thanks.
Andrew.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] No e-mail left in the intended e-mail box

[Andrew Hodgson]

Christus Publishing wrote:

>To whom it may concern,

>We have set-up but the e-mails coming into the box are not received in the
>box or left in the e-mail box --- they are just forwarded to the intended
>recipients.  What do we have to do to make sure the e-mails coming in stay
>in the box?

Mailman is a list manager - that is, if you send to the list address, it will 
send the email out to all the subscribers on the list.  It should archive a 
copy of the message (if the list configuration permits it to do so), and that 
should be accessible via the web GUI.  So from the little information you gave 
us, it would seem that Mailman is possibly doing its job?

Perhaps if you give us some more information about what you did to configure 
Mailman on your system, and what you believe it isn't doing, we can help you 
further.

Thanks.
Andrew.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Best Mail Program to Use w/ Mailman

[Andrew Hodgson]

Beyer, Clay wrote:

>We are setting up a Debian web server and would like to use Mailman to
>manage a couple of mailing lists that we control. After some initial
>complications with Mailman and Postfix we decided to uninstall and
>reinstall everything, before we get going again, I just wanted to get an
>idea of what the best mail program, taken from the Mailman
>Documentation, to use with Mailman... Postfix, Qmail, Exim, or Sendmail.

Personally I would go with Debian's default of Exim and follow the well written 
instructions in the Debian package file 
/usr/share/doc/mailman/README.Exim4.Debian, it really is a cut and paste setup. 
 This basically emulates the Postfix virtual style setup, but includes the 
routers etc to get Exim to see the relevant virtual aliases files.

I have converted three Mailman setups that were using Postfix (on a mix of 
Ubuntu and FreeBSD) to this setup, and it worked fine.  In all these cases this 
was a separate box managing a bit of web stuff and lists, not the primary email 
server.

Thanks.
Andrew.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Warning: I/O Error While Trying To Byte-Compile

[Andrew Hodgson]

Beyer, Clay Wrote:

>Mark Sapiro Wrote:

[...]

>>This is a Debian packaging issue. If you wish to install Debian's
>>Mailman package, you'll have to take this up with Debian.

>How would I go about completely removing the current, albeit, partial
>install of mailman? Is there a way to do any kind of complete removal
>other than just searching and deleting (after an apt-get remove)? I am a
>bit of a Linux beginner, so I am not entirely sure how the tarball
>installations works, but I am betting that is simpler to figure out and
>will ask if I need any assistance.

apt-get purge mailman, then delete files in /var/lib/mailman, /etc/mailman, 
/usr/lib/mailman, /usr/share/mailman and /usr/share/doc/mailman (I think that 
is it).  Purge should do all this for you (especially if you haven't touched 
any list config).

On the other hand, that is a strange error you got, and suggests you may have 
another underlying issue.  If you haven't got anything else on the box, you may 
just want to reinstall with the latest Lenny minimal server install and work 
upwards.

Using the Tarball is easy enough, though I always use the Debian package 
because I never have any issues with it.

Thanks.
Andrew.


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[Mailman-Users] Virtual domains and password reminder emails

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

Is there a way of getting the password reminders to go out from the virtual 
domain instead of the base domain that is configured in mm_cfg.py and thus what 
the Mailman list was created with?

I haven't actually tried this yet, but want to configure everything correctly 
before creating the list.

Thanks.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] using mailman on a server other than the one that DNS is pointing to

[Andrew Hodgson]

Adam Parker, OD wrote:

>no, i'm not actually using that domain.  Cpanel allows you to easily set up a 
>list - it just asks you for the name of the list and a password and does >the 
>rest for you.  The problem is that the server the Mailman/List resides on is 
>not the server that houses the email server.  So i'm looking for a >way for 
>the 2nd server to be able to monitor the emails from the email server.
>I went into the panel and there's a place to alter the MX record - one option 
>is for "Remote Mail Exchanger" which I thought would work, but it >doesn't.  
>I'm not sure this is possible, but was hoping there'd be a way to use Mailman 
>when the emails are not on same server.

Firstly, this list is not really set up to support users using the CPanel 
version of Mailman, which is altered to work with the CPanel setup.  We can 
only usually advise on a version of Mailman built from source, or that you can 
run the standard binaries on without breaking a CPanel list.

Having said that...

I understand you have two hosts - one running CPanel and Mailman, and one not.  
You have moved your site over to the new host, but want to continue with the 
old host for the Mailman hosting.  There are two options as I see it:

1.  Use the old Host to host the mail system for your domain.  This essentially 
means pointing the MX records at your old host, then letting them handle mail 
forwarding, Mailman hosting, and mail hosting.  The new host wouldn't concern 
itself about mail.

2.  Move the list to a subdomain inside your domain, i.e., lists.example.com.  
The MX records for your domain would point at the new mail server, but the MX 
records for the subdomain would point at the Mailman host.

Thanks.
Andrew.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] network pressure ..

[Andrew Hodgson]

Khalil Abbas [khillo...@hotmail.com] wrote:

>I'm running a mailing list service and  have a dedicated server with godaddy 
>for that, the server sends emails thru godaddy's relay servers.. I have 38 
>lists on this >server and all the 38 lists have about 9,000 subscribers .. but 
>some of my customers send to their lists more than once a day..

>godaddy has told me that my server is making a pressure on their network and 
>causing them problems because its sending too much data to the relay system 
>very >fast, they said that I should find a way to distribute the emails over a 
>period of 12 hours or more to ease the pressure on their network..

An alternative is to let your server at Godaddy send the emails out directly 
via MX lookups, rather than sending it off to a smarthost.  This would be an 
MTA configuration option, unless you specified an SMTP server directly in 
mm_cfg.py, in which case remove it, and Mailman will submit the messages 
through the MTA on localhost.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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[Mailman-Users] Creating an invite-only list

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

Sorry if this is a bit thick, but I can't see what I want to do in the Mailman 
interface or FAQ.

I want to create a mailing list such that the subscribe mechanisms will give a 
message to the users that this list is for invited members only, and the 
subscription request will not be held for moderation.

I initially configured the banned addresses in the ban_list section by entering 
in the regular expression "^.*$", however, now we can't subscribe anyone 
manually to the list, which is the only way we want to add people anyway.

Is there any way of doing this without having a tonne of subscription requests 
in the moderation queue?

Thanks.
Andrew.
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[Mailman-Users] Large list and delivery concerns

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi all,

Ok, I have dealt with several Mailman lists in the past, however, all have been 
relatively small number of subscribers (around 60 subscribers being the limit, 
with around 2-3 messages per day).

However, I have now taken on a list of around 350 subscribers receiving around 
10-20 posts a day, and wonder what the most efficient way is to send the 
messages?

I am currently using the default of Mailman sending out the message to the MTA 
(default Debian Exim on localhost) as one message with lots of recipients.

Is it best to fan out these deliveries into more than one message by changing 
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS and using more than one connection by changing 
SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION?
Any other suggestions?

It has gone well so far, the only issue being initially blocked by Yahoo mail 
servers, however, I am dealing with this separately.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Moving / upgrading Mailman from Solaris to Linux

[Andrew Hodgson]

Adam McGreggor wrote:

>In such a case, you're reliant on the maintainer updating fixes
>promptly (or very rarely, the security team), along with necessary
>modifications to conform with Debian policy.

Yes, I am still waiting for the latest Mailman security patch to be included in 
the stable Debian repo, and it is a shame imho that we aren't likely to get 
2.1.14 in the next Debian release (the latest Debian package seems to be a 
patched 2.1.13).

>Once one gets around those, one has something that's usable, and not
>too difficult to operate, but I've not done a source <--> source
>comparison for a while.

It is easy to install and operate, I will give you that.

>I'm lazy, and just use the versions in the repos, but am aware a
>couple of folks on list either build their own PPAs or use others.

I am thinking of trying to build my own install for the reasons I outlined 
above, the reasons I am holding off this are:

1.  Having to move everything out of the directory structure you get with the 
Debian package.
2.  Knowing what functionality/bug fixes I am getting with the Debian specific 
patches that I wouldn't otherwise get from the upstream package.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Moving / upgrading Mailman from Solaris to Linux

[Andrew Hodgson]

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>>
>>I am thinking of trying to build my own install for the reasons I outlined 
>>above, the reasons I am holding off this are:
>>
>>1.  Having to move everything out of the directory structure you get with the 
>>Debian package.

>I'm not sure what the Debian directory structure is, but you should be able to 
>get very close via the --prefix, --exec-prefix and --with-var-prefix >options 
>to configure.

Actually I have just come out the other side of the upgrade, it wasn't too 
painful.  I actually put everything in /usr/local/mailman, as it allowed me to 
sort the configs etc out without breaking the working install.

I built the source on a virtual machine I do other testing on, then copied the 
mailman directory over to the live system, running fix_perms to ensure 
everything worked fine.

I built it with the user and group of list, and set the mail-gid and cgi-gid 
according to the Debian package.

I stole the scripts from /etc/init.d/mailman, /etc/logrotate.d/mailman and 
/etc/cron.d/mailman after tweaking a bit to keep the working init, logrotate 
and cron scripts working.

I then changed the Apache configs to point to the new installation, and after 
stopping the services, moved the archives and lists directories over.  I ran 
the new qrunner and everything started up ok.

The only issue I had which had me scratching my head for a bit was that 
simlinks in /usr/local/mailman/archives/public were broken, these are now fixed.

End result: Working Mailman with security patch applied :)

If anyone wants more detailed steps please let me know.

Thanks.
Andrew.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Backing Up the List of Members

[Andrew Hodgson]

Ulf Dunkel wrote:

>Hi Alan.

>> Is there a command to exhibit all members on one page?  or, better
>> yet, is there a command an administrator can invoke to have the
>> members, if possible with their flags, shipped to my home computer?

>I guess I would do a simple admin request email for the lists every now
>and then, [...]

The issue I have with the roster email is that it doesn't tell you whether the 
user is on nomail or digest.  We had an issue last week where one of my users 
moved a lists from Freelists to Mailman, and we had a lot of complaints of 
users starting to receive mail again after going nomail, and digest users not 
being on digest.

Just something to take note of.

Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman server consuming entire Internet pipe (dual T1)

[Andrew Hodgson]

Scott Race wrote:

[...]

>I've done some basic testing for open relays, so far I have not found anything 
>indicating it's an open relay. Packet sniffing shows connections >from a 
>number of IP addresses to the Mailman server.  Outside test shows the hostname 
>is not an open relay, and I can't telnet on port 25 with >standard HELO 
>command.  All internal mail comes to a Barrucuda spam filter unit.

>/usr/local/mailman/logs/post shows 19 posts today to the various lists.

The Postfix logs would be of more benefit I think here, as well as the mail 
queue.
 
You say you route mails through a Barracuda host, do you allow traffic directly 
into this machine on port 25 externally?  Is this machine hosting lists only, 
and if so, how is the Barracuda/Postfix server verifying recipients as early as 
possible (in case the domain is receiving large amounts of bounced mail and is 
rejecting with a full NDR and not a bounce at SMTP stage?  Does outbound mail 
get delivered direct from Postfix or are you smarthosting to the Barracuda?

Thanks.
Andrew. 


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Change list admin password, old one and new one works

[Andrew Hodgson]

Scott Race wrote:

>In going through some security procedures yesterday, we decided to change our 
>list passwords on all our lists.

>The new password works, as does the old one still.  Restarting mailmanctl 
>process does not fix.

If the list shared the old password with the site password, then using the old 
password (i.e, the site password) will get you past most password prompts in 
Mailman.

http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030543

Andrew. 


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Phrase count

[Andrew Hodgson]

David Doria wrote:

[...]

>Hi Ralf,

>Is it possible to download the entire archive as one file?
>I see that they are broken down into months:
>http://www.vtk.org/pipermail/vtkusers/

To get the .mbox file directly you will need to access the server and download 
the file as a privileged user.  It may be quite large due to the size of the 
archive.

Alternatively you could use a crawl tool on the archives page like Wget or 
similar if you don't have access to the host.

Thanks.
Andrew.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Phrase count

[Andrew Hodgson]

Adam McGreggor wrote:

[...]

>http://lists.example.org/mailman/private/example-list.mbox/example-list.mbox, 
>perhaps?

>(works for me).

Luckily that doesn't work here, I don't believe you should be able to directly 
download the mbox files like that.

Andrew.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Phrase count

[Andrew Hodgson]

Mark Sapiro wrote:

[...]

>Andrew Hodgson wrote:

>>David Doria wrote:
>>
>>>Is it possible to download the entire archive as one file?
>>>I see that they are broken down into months:
>>>http://www.vtk.org/pipermail/vtkusers/
>>
>>To get the .mbox file directly you will need to access the server and 
>>download the file as a privileged user.  It may be quite large due to the 
>>>size of the archive.

>You don't need shell/privileged access to the server to get the archive mbox. 
>You just need to be a list member.

>Authenticate for private archive access by going to a URL like 
><http://www.vtk.org/mailman/private/vtkusers/> and logging in. Then get 
>><http://www.vtk.org/mailman/private/vtkusers.mbox/vtkusers.mbox>.

Ah, didn't realise that was possible, disregard my previous message on this 
subject.  Authentication was the key point.

Andrew. 


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Phrase count

[Andrew Hodgson]

Adam McGreggor wrote:

[...]

>>On Wed, Dec 01, 2010 at 04:02:51PM +, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>> I don't believe you should be able to directly download the mbox files like 
>> that.

>Why ever not? What's so different about grabbing one mbox at once, rather than 
>however many iterations/scraping?

The point that I didn't grasp was that you needed to log into the private 
archives before you could in fact do this.  From your message I mistakenly 
thought that you could just directly grab the mbox without authentication.

Sorry about that.
Andrew.


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[Mailman-Users] To use or not to use content filtering

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I have read various discussions on this list about content filtering settings 
in Mailman. For the most part, I usually leave content filtering on, and leave 
the defaults, primarily for protecting list users against malicious attachments 
(I am enough of an MS veteran now not to care about filtering all HTML).  
However, over recent months we have had some issues with content filtering on 
some lists, with users who send emails with disclaimers, where the disclaimer 
is added as an attachment to the message, and Mailman appears to strip off the 
actual message, leaving the disclaimer to post to the list, and of course 
adding in the standard footer.

Are people using content filtering in lists where most people are using MS 
products, and a suitable antivirus package on the MTA as well as a low posting 
size limit, or are there any tweaks I can make to the content filtering 
settings that may get some of this stuff through?

Thanks.
Andrew.
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[Mailman-Users] AV/AS on lists

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

What is the best practise for doing AV/AS on lists?  I do strip out attachments 
which works well enough, but we are getting some spam messages on the list 
which point people at dodgy sites etc., usually through subscribed addresses 
which have been hijacked.

I am worried that by installing SpamAssassin on the list that it will reject 
good mail, and be yet another place to look for issues.

Thoughts?
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] AV/AS on lists

[Andrew Hodgson]

Odhiambo Washington wrote:

>On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 20:40, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

>> Hi,
>>
>> What is the best practise for doing AV/AS on lists?  I do strip out 
>> attachments which works well enough, but we are getting some spam 
>> messages on the list which point people at dodgy sites etc., usually 
>> through subscribed addresses which have been hijacked.
>>
>> I am worried that by installing SpamAssassin on the list that it will 
>> reject good mail, and be yet another place to look for issues.
>>
>>
>You must find a way to use the MTA to do it.

Oh yes I realise that I will need to do the spam management in the MTA, I just 
wondered whether anyone had specific suggestions on the best parameters for use 
with SpamAssassin etc for a list setup?

Thanks.
Andrew. 


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Monthly Reminder Question

[Andrew Hodgson]

Dennis Putnam wrote:

>What triggers the monthly reminder? I cannot find any config parameter that 
>lets me set what day or date in each month to send it. Does this >have t be 
>done manually with a cron job? If so what is the command?

It is in Cron - see the file in ~/cron/crontab.in:

[...]
|# 5 AM on the first of each month, mail out password reminders.
|0 5 1 * * /usr/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/mailpasswds

See this section of the installation guide:

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node41.html

Thanks.
Andrew.

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[Mailman-Users] Setting options via email - confirmation rather than password?

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

Is there any way in Mailman to allow the users to set options (usually nomail 
style options) without the password argument?  The system would then send out a 
confirmation email which the user could reply or click a link in the email to 
confirm.  

We have a lot of users who subscribe by sending to list-subscr...@domain.com 
and replying to the confirmation mail, they don't go near the web interface :)

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting options via email - confirmation rather than password?

[Andrew Hodgson]

From: Mark Sapiro [m...@msapiro.net]
Sent: 01 June 2011 16:27
To: Andrew Hodgson
Cc: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting options via email - confirmation rather 
than password?

>On 6/1/11 1:56 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Is there any way in Mailman to allow the users to set options
>> (usually nomail style options) without the password argument?  The
>> system would then send out a confirmation email which the user could
>> reply or click a link in the email to confirm.


>This would require significant source modifications.

That's all the information I needed, thanks for that.

Andrew.
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[Mailman-Users] Moving a list from 2.1.9.CP2 to 2.1.9

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I have a host running Debian Etch with Mailman 2.1.9, and everything is
honky dory.  However, I need to transfer a list from a host running
Mailman 2.1.9.CP2, and the owner of that list is a bit worried about the
downgrade of Mailman to 2.1.9.  I have looked everywhere for the CP2
version, but can't find it on the Mailman website, and Google searches
have just got me Mailman pages from hosts running that version - there
are quite a number.

Is there any difference between the two versions, or is the CP2 version
just used in a specific Distro?  I did check to see if I was on the
latest version from Etch, and would prefer to keep this version, as it
is updated as required when doing a system update in Debian.

Also, is there anything I should be worried about when transferring from
the list?  The users have limited shell access so far, so I am going to
be looking at that on Monday, if possible getting the ISP to tar up the
various list/archive files from /var/lib/mailman or the like.

Any help gratefully received.
Thanks,
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Moving a list from 2.1.9.CP2 to 2.1.9

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi Brian,

-Original Message-
From: Brian Carpenter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 24 February 2008 13:35
To: Andrew Hodgson; mailman-users@python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Moving a list from 2.1.9.CP2 to 2.1.9

>Andrew Hodgson wrote:
>> Hi,
 
[...]
 
>> Is there any difference between the two versions, or is the CP2
version
>> just used in a specific Distro?  I did check to see if I was on the
>> latest version from Etch, and would prefer to keep this version, as
it
>> is updated as required when doing a system update in Debian.

>The cp2 version means that your list is on a cPanel server that is
running
>mailman. It's not a newer version but a modified one to fit in with the
way
>cPanel runs things on their servers. So technically it's not a
downgrade at
>all.

Ok, thanks for that.  Is that going to make things more complex to
transfer the list, as this machine is hosted by the ISP, and I think
they only use the web interface to access the configurations for
websites, email accounts etc.  If I do get shell access, as this list is
running on the CPanel environment, will various directories be different
etc?

At least I have a clearer set of searches to do now :).

Thanks.
Andrew. 

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[Mailman-Users] Specify different SMTP server

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

 

Reading previous emails seem to suggest I can make Mailman output to a
different SMTP server by changing the options in the configuration
files.  I would quite like to do this, as currently Mailman is on a
server which doesn't do much email, and the Exim on that machine outputs
to the destination SMTP server in any case.

 

My only question is: Is this a common deployment, and what happens if
the destination SMTP server is down?

 

Thanks.

Andrew.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] I need help !!!

[Andrew Hodgson]

Carmen Chang (DHL US) wrote:

>I need to create a new distribution list but an error message comes up.
>This is the message that comes up:
 
>Internal Server Error

>The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was 
>unable to complete your request.

[...]

>Apache/2.0.46 (Red Hat) Server at amlists.dhl.com Port 80

Are you the person in charge of this server, and who can gain admin
access to it?  You would need to check out various log files in order to
try and work out what went wrong. 

Thanks.
Andrew.
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[Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.9: Send output to SMTP server using TLS

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

 

Is there any way to set Mailman 2.1.9 to output its messages to a
specific SMTP server using TLS?  I am doing this now ok, but the message
is going over plain SMTP.  I want to enforce TLS on that machine, but
Mailman is using just plain SMTP.

 

Thanks.

Andrew.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] undeliverable email on new list

[Andrew Hodgson]

Matt Smith wrote:

>Hello,

>I cant figure out why a newly created list creates errors when trying
to
>post.  Here is an example error that comes from our exchange 2003
>system.

Could you try sending without using Exchange?  Exchange may think it is
responsible for delivery through *.tblc.org, in which case you may get
similar errors.  How did you create the list, and did you update the
aliases?

Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists andharvesters

[Andrew Hodgson]

Steve Murphy wrote:

>I'm quite concerned about what I'm seeing in mailman installations, and
the amount of spam I've been getting >because I participate in mailman
based lists!

>What I'm concerned about is the fact that email harvesters are being
given so much information.

>I've noticed in the mailman-users archives, that if I view info by
thread (using the mailman archives as an >example,) which site is 2.1.10
based, that all email addresses are present, but with a simple
obfuscation.
>(the "@" has been changed to " at ".) I can't help but to think that
this simple obfuscation is a joke. Any >harvester written in the past
number of years would be smart enough to capture such accurately.

When we were looking for a list software package, we came up against
this problem.  I think the issue here is that the archives are open to
anyone (aka public archives), and there is no real way of allowing
people to contact anyone off list if the email addresses are protected.
That said, there are a number of external archiving solutions around
that will do this already, such as MHonArc http://www.mhonarc.org/.

>>When viewing the developer's archives, I note that when a message is
displayed singly, it is common to see >[EMAIL PROTECTED]. This is much
nicer, but I notice that in both archives, a button is provided at the
bottom >of the letter, that submits a form, and gets back both a "Found"
page, with a mailto: url, and a redirect to a >mailto... 
>so, an anonymous user can easily get/harvest email addresses by simply
analyzing the html form.

The email form is done by mail-archive.com, and they are running several
honeypots to monitor spam coming in via this method.  The FAQ which
explains this is at http://www.mail-archive.com/faq.html.

[...]

>It seems inconsistent, funny even, that display by thread will show
individual messages with [EMAIL REMOVED], >but the gzip'd archives of
the same message reveal, really, everything.

Are you sure you are viewing the same archives?

>And worse... If I really wanted to collect up-to-date juicy email
addresses, I'd simply subscribe to all the >mailman lists I possibly
could, and route all the incoming messages to harvesters. In **This**
case, the >harvest is bountiful, as most messages arrive totally
unfiltered, from  headers galore bearing bounteous >harvests of email
addresses (for example, the From header), to the user sigs at the ends,
with reply quotation >headers mentioning the source addresses in
between.

This is a problem with email not Mailman.  Do you see Freelists,
YahooGroups or Google Groups doing similar?

>Within MINUTES of my first posting on asterisk-users, I was getting
spam on an email address that was brand->new. Since then, the spam
volume on that email addr just keeps growing.

That is interesting as I have subscribed to several lists using a list
account at work which are on Mailman - namely RedHat and LUG user
groups, and I haven't had spam to that address in ages.  Contrast this
with my main work address, which I use to sign up for email newsletters
(when evaluating products), use as sales contacts, fill in web forms
etc, where I get around 40-50 spams a day.

>I keep wondering, which way did they get my email addr? 
>But, it doesn't matter. I can't help to think that 'targeted'
>spam mailers both spider the archives and subscribe to the lists.The
bigger the list's subscription, hotter an >item it is.

Maybe you should post this to one of the mail-archive lists, to see if
the people controlling the honeypots are finding similar.  

>So, please, can we apply the [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech to the archives,
and the outgoing messages, and drop this >silly notion that the " at "
obfuscation is useful? Really, it's totally transparent.

Possibly agreeing with you viz the archiving via the web, but I for one
would never use such a feature as email protection on any of my lists
for email subscribers.

Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Major problems with privacy and mailman lists and harvesters

[Andrew Hodgson]

Michael Welch wrote:

[Regarding obscuring email addresses in archives]

>I think the Topica listserver had a great way to deal with email
addresses in archives. You could see a >semblance of the email address,
but no way could you deduce the real address. If you are logged into the
site, >each is still obscured, but is a live link that opens up an
email-like dialog box -- with the real address >still obscured. But it
does send an email to the real address for the obscured address.

The problem I can see with that is it may not work well on a public
archive, and if we wanted a private archive, we would need to protect
the users from spammers signing into the system, and sending a whole
bunch of emails, possibly through the server running the archives!

Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and C-Panel

[Andrew Hodgson]

David Andrews wrote:
 
>I currently run my own server, a SUN Cobalt RAQ550.  Mailman is 
>installed on it and I have full access to everything.

>Because of aging hardware, etc. I will be replacing everything.  I am 
>considering going to c-panel as we also host web sites for parts of a 
>national nonprofit for which we also provide the lists.

I have done both the C-pannel thing and using my own server with config files 
etc, and in my experience, unless you are hosting lots of websites like in a 
hosting environment, there is not much point in using C-pannel.  When I was 
using it, I got very fustrated with what it was trying to do, which was fab in 
a hosting environment, but not for me, having different requirements for 
different sites etc.

Hope this helps.
Andrew.
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[Mailman-Users] Complaining Outlook users

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

Since I moved my list from Freelists to our own server running Mailman
(2.1.11), I am getting complaints from Outlook users, and quite a few of
them are managing to post messages to the bounce address.

When they are viewing the message, it appears to be coming from
"[EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Real user", and this also
appears in the reply text as well:

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Andrew Hodgson

For example.

I looked at what Mailman was doing as well as Freelists, and I notice
that Freelists add the return-path and sender header as
[EMAIL PROTECTED], and do not use a bounce address at all.

I wondered whether VERP would solve my issues, however, on the
mailman-users list, I note that it does the same thing in Outlook,
except for in this case, the user can see the actual VERP address.

Is there any way in Mailman to get the return envelope as the
bounce/VERP address, but add the [EMAIL PROTECTED] address to the sender
header instead, as I think this is what Outlook is picking up?

I have never had any issues with this in my Outlook, however, it is
obviously confusing some people, as I am continuing to have questions
about this, plus messages coming at me from the bounce address.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Complaining Outlook users

[Andrew Hodgson]

Karl Zander wrote:

>On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 13:06:10 +0100
>  "Andrew Hodgson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi,
> 
>> Since I moved my list from Freelists to our own server running 
>>Mailman (2.1.11), I am getting complaints from Outlook users, and quite a 
>>few of them are managing to post messages to the bounce address.

[...]
> 
>> Is there any way in Mailman to get the return envelope as the
>> bounce/VERP address, but add the [EMAIL PROTECTED] address to the 
>>sender header instead, as I think this is what Outlook is picking up?

>This may start to address your questions.

> From field displayed by Microsoft Outlook
>http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/From+field+displayed+by+Microsoft+Outlook

That is grate, and pretty much confirms what I wrote in my previous message, 
and gives me a hack which I could use.

The question is: Do many listadmins get similar questions, and is there any 
merit for requesting that Mailman uses the list address only in the Sender 
header?

Thanks.
Andrew.
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[Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.11 - message appears to drop on the floor

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I have a list with a user who is not able to send new messages to the
list - replies go out ok, but whenever he sends out a new message, it
doesn't reach the list.

I have a relay machine which accepts the message and does antivirus
checks etc which is my main mailhub on the end of a DSL line.  This
relays to a Debian machine running Mailman 2.1.11 and Exim4 as the mail
receiver.  This is using the Exim4 and Mailman howto on the Exim website
- that is, using transports and routers in the Exim configuration to
work out the Mailman lists, and piping to the Mailman receiver 

I have tracked the message going through the main relay, and to the Exim
machine.  I can see it going through the Mailman transport, but nothing
after this:

(names changed to protect the innocent)

2008-09-08 16:45:56 1Kciw8-0003PY-35 <=
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
fora.net H=gollum.hodgsonfamily.org [81.2.105.210] P=esmtp S=4728
id=C6C9F90C58A
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
2008-09-08 16:45:56 1Kciw8-0003PY-35 => blind-sysadmins
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
odgsonfamily.org> R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport
2008-09-08 16:45:56 1Kciw8-0003PY-35 Completed

I have checked files in /var/lib/mailman/logs and there is nothing shown
for that time.

Any ideas?
Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.11 - message appears to drop on thefloor

[Andrew Hodgson]

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Andrew Hodgson wrote:

>>I have a list with a user who is not able to send new messages to the
>>list - replies go out ok, but whenever he sends out a new message, it
>>doesn't reach the list.

>And other user's posts go to the list OK?

Yes fine.

>>I have checked files in /var/lib/mailman/logs and there is nothing
shown
>>for that time.

>That's the puzzling part. Ar you sure there's not a

>   'Message discarded, msgid: ...

>message in the vette log?

Shucks!  There is:

Sep 08 16:45:57 2008 (19895) Message discarded, msgid:


>Here's my best guess on the problem.

>Content filtering is enabled.
>HTML is not accepted
>filter_action is Discard (or maybe it's Reject, and the rejection is
>  getting lost/spam filtered/?

>The user's MUA is set to generate HTML only messages which get filtered
>by content filtering, but replies get replied to in the format of the
>original and so are plain text and accepted.

That sounds reasonable enough - I will contact the user concerned.

Thanks.
Andrew.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Help - Mailman programs all do "Memory Fault' on Linux, here's what I tried to fix it

[Andrew Hodgson]

Don Steiny wrote:

>Hi,

>I am  on Debian 2.6.8.  I used apt-get to update Python to 2-4 and
>the latest version of mailman.  I used one archive in sources.list;

>deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free

Hi,

A couple of things here...

Is that the Debian kernel you are using which is at 2.6.8, that is the
kernel that ships with Sarge (the previous Debian release).  We are now
on Etch, which is the stable release, so using that version is highly
advised.

Is this an upgrade of Mailman from the Debian Sarge mailman package
(which, if I remember correctly was at 2.1.5) or some other Mailman you
installed from source?  This is important as the Debian package looks
for things in different places than the default installation from
source.

Have you upgraded the whole Debian system to stable (Etch), or just the
Mailman packages?

We really need more background to this.

Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] spam gatewayed from Usenet to mail bypasses our spam filters

[Andrew Hodgson]

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>As indicated in another reply, another approach would be to have
>gate_news run the message through the spam checks directly before
>queueing it.

Another way could be to have a moderated group, with the moderation address set 
to the Mailman list post address, though this has its own problems.

The issue with running the spam checks is that the spam processor may be on a 
different machine to the host running the Mailman.

Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Lapsed domain name

[Andrew Hodgson]

Amos Glenn wrote:

>But between then and now, the group let the domain name lapse and someone
>else now owns the domain name. Thus I can no longer get to the Mailman list
>admin website to turn the list off.

There are a couple of techy ways you could do this:

- Point the hosts file at the relevant IP address of the web server you use to 
manage the domain/Mailman setup, then point a web browser at it.  It should 
work locally.

- If you have a local DNS server, and you know the authoritative DNS servers 
provided by the original web host, create a stub zone with the relevant NS 
records pointing to those nameservers.  When a client using that nameserver 
tries to resolve the relevant domain name, the DNS resolver should look up and 
return the records from the old webhost.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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[Mailman-Users] Digest indexes

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I run a high volume list (around 80 messages per day), and we have complaints 
from digest users that the digests are difficult to work with.  One requested 
feature is could the digests be in HTML format, and a link be presented in the 
table of contents to go to each message.  Can this be done in Mailman by 
working with the digest templates?

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest indexes

[Andrew Hodgson]

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Andrew Hodgson writes:

> > I run a high volume list (around 80 messages per day), and we have  > 
> > complaints from digest users that the digests are difficult to work  > 
> > with.  >One requested feature is could the digests be in HTML  > format, 
> > and a link be presented in the table of contents to go to  > each message.  
> > Can this >be done in Mailman by working with the  > digest templates?

>No, it cannot be done without coding.

>And it would not be easy.  HTML does not provide a "mail message"
>element, so although it would be trivial to create the table of contents, 
>there is no good way to indicate what is at the other end of those links.

One of the examples I saw from another setup was to use in page links for each 
message in the TOC, so the links in the TOC just put the focus onto the next 
message.  I realise there are still a lot of issues with that; my preferred 
option is to use MIME digests, but most users don't like them.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest indexes

[Andrew Hodgson]

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>On 12/16/2014 08:56 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
>> --- Original Message -
>>> From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" 
 
>>> Andrew Hodgson writes:

>>>> I run a high volume list (around 80 messages per day), and we have 
>>>> complaints from digest users that the digests are difficult to work 
>>>> with. One requested feature is could the digests be in HTML format, 
>>>> and a link be presented in the table of contents to go to each 
>>>> message. Can this be done in Mailman by working with the digest 
>>>> templates?

>>> No, it cannot be done without coding.


>Correct.

I pretty much thought as much, but wanted to check anyway.

>>> And it would not be easy. HTML does not provide a "mail message"
>>> element, so although it would be trivial to create the table of 
>>> contents, there is no good way to indicate what is at the other end 
>>> of those links.
...

>> I believe that what Andrew is really looking for is just something 
>> that could put in anchor links to the beginning of each message's test 
>> as the message is HTMLified.  I agree that it would require code, but 
>> I don't think that code would need to have semantic knowledge of mail 
>> messages; it only needs to know where the edge of each message is.

That was exactly what I was looking for, just didn't say it as well.

>It is not possible to do this at all for the plain text format digest since by 
>definition, that contains no HTML.

I wouldn't look to do it for the plain text version, some users may not want 
this at all so would stick to the plain text version.  You could possibly look 
into creating a different digest type such as HTML indexed or similar, but I 
would see it as a completely different digest type.

>For the MIME format digest, I think Stephen is correct. The MIME digest 
>currently has the following structure

>multipart/mixed
>text/plain
>(the boilerplate)
>text/plain
>(the digest_header if any)
>text/plain
> (the TOC)
>multipart/digest
>message/rfc822
>(the first message)
>message/rfc822
>(the next message)
>text/plain
>(the digest_footer if any)

>One would have to create the TOC as text/html rather than text/plain and add 
>links to the various message parts. These can't be anchor tags. Do do that 
>would require HTMLifying the entire digest. They could probably be >RFC2393 
>mid: references though. That might not be too difficult to do, although 
>various popular web mail clients, e.g. gmail, currently don't make it possible 
>to open an individual digest message as a separate message, so how >they would 
>deal with such a digest is unknown.

I don't believe you would need each message as separate MIME parts.  For 
reference I am going to copy out a template an admin of another list sent me - 
they are using Sympa.  This is a template they use for doing exactly the same 
thing.  I don't know anything about Sympa, but I think the template will give 
you a slightly better idea of what I am looking for.

Thanks.
Andrew. 

---cut here---

We worked on a new version of the digest plain.

You should try this template on a test list.

From: [% fromlist %]
To: [% to %]
Reply-to: [% replyto %]
Subject: [% FILTER qencode %][%|loc(list.name,date)%]%1 Digest %2[%END%] [% IF 
total_group > 1 -%]([% current_group %]/[% total_group %])[% END %][%END%]
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="[% boundary1 %]"

--[% boundary1 %]
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8";
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

[%|loc(list.name,date)%]%1 Digest %2[%END%] 



[%|loc%]Table of contents:[%END%]


[% FOREACH m = msg_list -%]
[% m.id %] - [% m.subject %] - [% 
m.from %] 
[% END %]



[% FOREACH m = msg_list -%]
[% m.id %] - Date: [% m.date %] Author: [% 
m.from %] 
Subject:  [% m.subject %] 

[% m.plain_body %]




 Answer to 
author
 <--> 
 Answer to 
list
 <--> 
Back to table of content




[% END %]


[%|loc(list.name,date)%]End of %1 Digest %2[%END%]

*


--[% boundary1 %]--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Unknown Virtual Host question

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

The issue you have is you are trying to access the web interface over a virtual 
host (x.x.x.x) which isn't defined.  You can change your Windows Hosts file to 
point lists.domain.com at your new IP whilst you do the setup and testing, that 
is what I did when I had to move a bunch of lists over to a new server.

Thanks.
Andrew.

-Original Message-
From: Mailman-Users 
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+andrew=hodgsonfamily@python.org] On Behalf Of 
Steve Matzura
Sent: 19 January 2015 16:18
To: mailman
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown Virtual Host question

I'm setting up a new Mailman implementation on a new machine that's a virtual 
copy of a running production machine. I'm expecting problems because I'm trying 
to use the same domain name in two places, and I absolutely understand that's 
not going to work, but the bottom line is, the faster I get the new machine up 
and functional, the faster the old one will just go away and not bother me any 
more (LOL). So, on the new machine, I'm trying to create email lists via the 
Web interface at my new machine's IP address. When I log in with the Mailman 
administrator account and password and attempt to create a new list, I get the 
message "unknown virtual host at x.x.x.x" where 'x.x.x.x' is the IP address of 
the new machine. Is this caused by the fact that my A-record points to the old 
machine, or because my new machine is trying to validate against the old one 
somehow? If I were to stop Mailman on the old system temporarily and swing my 
A-record over to the new machine, would this solve the pro
 blem long enough for me to get lists created? If so, then I might as well just 
do the deed for real, and get the old machine out of the equation completely. 
What's best to do here?
 
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[Mailman-Users] Moving lists with large archives to new server

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I am required by my host to change server hardware as the current hardware is 
out of support and needs replacing.

I will be going from 32-Bit Debian Wheezy to 64-Bit Jessy when it is released, 
and will probably upgrade to Mailman 2.1.19 from 2.1.18-1 using my own custom 
made packages.

All the configs for the system will be pushed via Puppet including 
~/Mailman/mm_cfg.py, and ~/lists and ~/data can be copied over very quickly.

My question revolves around the list archives.  If I start Mailman up before 
they are copied across, it is likely there will be waiting messages and these 
will get archived to a new mbox file.  I want to reduce downtime in moving the 
lists, but the mbox files are around 25GB, and there are a couple of lists 
which take the majority of that.  I was going to index the messages once the 
mbox files are copied over, but what is the smartest way to get these moved 
without downing Mailman for too long?

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] DMARC hack

[Andrew Hodgson]

Allan Hansen wrote:

>Stephen,

>Much appreciated. 
>Checking for aol.com and yahoo.com here alone will not work. I have a bunch of 
>other subscribers that have accounts with providers that are owned by Yahoo 
>(mostly) and AOL, but whose addresses are not of this form.
>I would have to do this for all addresses, to be safe.

Probably a good reason why you can't do this, but is there any way you can 
upgrade to the latest 2.1.20?  It means the code for doing this is already 
there for you and will work by looking up the relevant domain's DMARC policy in 
DNS.  I use it on all the lists here by default now by munging the From: header 
and it works when it needs to.

Thanks.
Andrew. 
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[Mailman-Users] Hide email address of specific sender

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I have had a request from a specific sender that their email address be hidden 
from postings (kinda like what the munging in the DMARC action does).  Is there 
a way to do this for this *one* member only?

Mailman 2.1.20 here.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] some mailman questions

[Andrew Hodgson]

Mark T wrote:

>Hi can any one help with the following

>1 i have set all my mailing lists to private
>how do i get the list to show up in mailman only if i go to the page it ses no 
> public lists advertised witch is what i want only had non members trying to 
>send messages
>i have made a page in wordpress with all our lists on

I am not sure what you are trying to do here, if you turn off the display of 
lists on the /listinfo page, people can still send emails to the list if they 
know about them from other means (I.e, Google searches, your Wordpress site 
etc).

>2. if i update my linode server will it break my mailman only i was told it 
>would
>the version i am useing is 2.1.16rc2 witch i was also told is the most 
>accessible for the blind

For what it's worth I run a load of lists on 2.1.20 which is the latest stable 
release and most if not all the users are blind and using it fine with 
assistive technology.  In terms of your version, you are using a 
pre-release/beta version, so depending on how you installed that would give you 
more ideas about whether updating the VM OS would break things.  What OS is the 
VM running now, is is being patched etc?

>3 is there a way of changing all my passwords with out doing them one by one

Do you mean your list admin passwords or something else?

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting spam at the SMTP level?

[Andrew Hodgson]

Jayson Smith wrote:

>I've been running several Mailman lists for the past ten years or so. 
>Unfortunately, in recent months some list addresses have fallen into the hands 
>of spammers, which is a real headache. Even worse, one particular -owner 
>address is receiving nothing but spam, and I don't assume there's >anything I 
>can do about that without disabling that address for legitimate use, as well 
>as for use by Mailman itself.

>A few months ago I did some Googling and found a project called Mailman-Milter 
>which claims to reject unwanted list mail i.e., nonmember postings at the SMTP 
>level. I would love to use this, but there's virtually no >documentation and 
>I've never been able to get it working. 
>Has anyone else had any better luck, or do you know of any other solutions? 
>I'm using Sendmail, by the way.

We had the same issue with our lists and I decided to install SpamAssassin on 
the server that rejects at SMTP level.  After a small bit of tuning we have 
this working really well, it doesn't interfere with list traffic, but rejects a 
lot of rubbish to the owner and other addresses.

HTH.
Andrew. 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Getting back to default settings

[Andrew Hodgson]

Nick Stevens via Mailman-Users wrote: 

>I think a good starting point would be to get back to defaults on everything.

The method I used was similar to Mark's, but I exported the settings from both 
the new and the current list to a text file and ran diff on those files to see 
exactly what people had changed.

Thanks.
Andrew. 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] need assistance upgrading Mailman

[Andrew Hodgson]

Nina Nicholson wrote:

>I have a dedicated virtual server with a shell login account and am allowed to 
>update it. Unfortunately, my Unix skills are minimal and not up to attempting 
>this on my own. I have managed other installations on my server when >being 
>walked through it, remotely, by an experienced person.

Looking at your host (lists.dionewark.org) seems to suggest you are using Plesk 
as the control panel, are you using Mailman as part of that?  If so, you will 
need to discuss this with Plesk, as the Mailman installation is customised as 
part of the control panel and is not from the stock Mailman distribution.  The 
CPanel control panel system which is one of Plesk's competitors ships with the 
latest version of Mailman, so that could be an option if you want to stick to 
using the control panel, but migration between the control panels may be 
slightly complex.

Look here:
http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20Plesk

Is that host doing anything else or is it hosting lists only?

Thanks.
Andrew. 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Assistance with altering reply-to behaviours and DMARC

[Andrew Hodgson]

Mark wrote:

>Step 1:  email is sent to the list - the mail to DMARC protected domain is 
>received ok by Yahoo web client.  Reply-to is set to the list.
>
>Message source of first email is:
>
>  From: Mark 
>  Reply-To: Test 
>
>Step 2: Reply from Yahoo client sends an email to the list and this has the 
>following source when viewed on Thunderbird MUA
>
>  From: Mark H via Test 
>  Reply-To: Mark H , Test 

That is interesting, and I wonder if this is something to do with the way that 
Redhat have implemented the new feature.

On my stock Mailman installation, the headers would look like this:

|From: Mark H via Test 
|Reply-To: Test 
|CC: Mark H 

This is a much better imho way of dealing with the issue and keeps the messages 
flowing through the list.  I know if I had the same headers on my list that you 
are getting, that users would be falling into the same trap, and was something 
I tested hard before implementing it on my lists.

Is there any way you could just upgrade your installation to the latest 2.1.20? 
 There are some compiling guides out there for Redhat/Centos systems that were 
designed to get people through this before Redhat backported the feature.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Error updating mailman Ubuntu 14.04.3

[Andrew Hodgson]

billy noah wrote:

[...]

>Looking for enabled languages (this may take some time) ... done.
>Removing unmodified files from /etc/mailman/eu  done.
>Directory /etc/mailman/eu not empty, not removed.

Is there any chance you installed a later version of Mailman from source and 
forgot to remove the Ubuntu package?

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] {Disarmed} Re: importing archived Maildir email lists into Mailman lists archives

[Andrew Hodgson]

[IDIS Technical Secretariat] Ricardo Rodríguez wrote:

[...]

>> > Ricardo-Rodriguezs-Mac-Pro:r.users rrodriguez$ ls
>> > Log   bounce  digissueheaderremovelock
>>   mod outlocalremote
>> > allow bouncer dignum  indexed

That's Ezmlm.  Have you tried something like this:

http://www.arctic.org/~dean/scripts/ezmlm2mbox

Get your Ezmlm archives to Mbox then that can be used as the basis for the 
Mailman archive.

Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] {Disarmed} Re: importing archived Maildir email lists into Mailman lists archives

[Andrew Hodgson]

[IDIS Technical Secretariat] Ricardo Rodríguez wrote:

[...]

>Thanks! It worked like a charm for at least two of our old mailing lists! 
>Script, ezmlm structure and mbox output keeps stored at...
>
>http://datasource.idisantiago.es
>
>... for easier reference.
>
>Now, I only have to import that mbox contents into the actual list. I guess 
>this is the right path...
>
>5.1. How do I import an archive into a new mailing list?
>http://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20import%20an%20archive%20into%20a%20new%20mailing%20list%3F

Yup, this is similar to what I did.  I recommend running cleanarch on that mbox 
before importing it, to ensure that it is ok.  I took the second option in that 
FAQ, as it was a new list.  Copy the Mbox file into the private directory after 
running it through cleanarch, then run the arch command to generate the HTML 
archives for the web interface.

Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] {Disarmed} Re: importing archived Maildir email lists into Mailman lists archives

[Andrew Hodgson]

[IDIS Technical Secretariat] Ricardo Rodríguez wrote:
>
>Before going ahead, there is one thing I'm curious about as I don't understand 
>it. Please, why does the path to the mbox file include .mbox twice? 
>Here...
>
>http://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20import%20an%20archive%20into%20a%20new%20mailing%20list%3F
>
>It reads...
>
>archives/private/.mbox/.mbox

Yup, the file needs to be called listname.mbox in the directory 
~/archives/private/listname.mbox.  So for example, to copy the mailman-users 
archive into your home directory, assuming Mailman was installed in the default 
location, you would enter a command like:

 cp /usr/local/mailman/private/mailman-users.mbox/mailman-users.mbox ~

That would give you a file called mailman-users.mbox in your home directory 
with all the archives in mbox format.

If your list is new then after running cleanarch on that mbox file, I would 
copy it to ~archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox, ensure perms are 
correct by running check_perms, then run arch with the wipe parameter to build 
all the HTML indexes for the web pages.

If you have a list already, I would stop Mailman, then cat the mbox file in 
place at the location ~archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox to a copy 
of your converted archives.  I would then run cleanarch on the resulting file, 
then put that in place in ~archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox before 
checking perms and running arch with the wipe parameter.

Hope this clears things up for you.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] strange postings to non-existant lists

[Andrew Hodgson]

Bruce Harrison  wrote:

>For the last month or two, I get anywhere from 3 or 4 to 20 to 30 postings to 
>non-existent lists on our mailman server.  I've been reading of course about 
>the subscribe spamming that folks have been talking about.
>Is this just someone poking at our mailman machine trying to find something to 
>send spam to, or something more sinister?  We use Microsoft filtering for 
>spam, viruses, etc. so all mail I see comes from one of their servers.
>It's not causing any problems, but just strange to me.

I haven't seen spammers subscribe to the lists properly (i.e, respond to the 
Mailman response), but I've had a lot of messages going to invalid users at the 
list domains and also to the subscribe/unsubscribe/request address, which was 
creating a lot of backscatter.

>From my point of view I want to try and avoid accepting and processing spam 
>mail and mail to invalid lists/recipients to try and avoid backscatter.  I 
>installed a local copy of SpamAssassin which seems to be working really well 
>and rejects spam over a score of around 7.  This seems to let list traffic 
>through whilst blocking the spam messages.  I also removed frontline MX 
>servers from the lists domain so they get handled by the Exim server doing the 
>processing, so that any 5XX response that the server sends out causes the spam 
>server to give up, rather than a frontline MX server having to generate the 
>NDR and send it out to the probably innocent party.  To this end we used to 
>use MS Office 365 spam scanning on the list domains, but don't use it anymore 
>for this reason.

Hope this helps,
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] strange postings to non-existant lists

[Andrew Hodgson]

Bruce Harrison wrote:

>Interesting, I may give SpamAssassin a look.  Thanks!

One thing here which I forgot is if your machine is not receiving mail 
directly, you may have less luck with SpamAssassin due to the mail always 
coming in from a downstream server.  It is easy to overcome but needs more 
configuration.

>Mine are almost always mail to invalid lists.

Are these lists which used to exist, or just random addresses on the system?

>My box talks to our local mail processor, which in turn runs off-campus thru 
>the MS filters/scanners and on out.

It's incoming mail we're interested in here, does that get handled directly or 
via filtering machines to?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] can any one help

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

This is nothing to do with Mailman, I suggest looking at a ClamAV related list 
or if your system was set up by someone speak to them to find out how it was 
set up.

If you are still stuck over the weekend give me a shout and I can give you some 
options as I am hosting some mailing lists for blind specific charities in the 
UK at the moment.

Andrew.

-Original Message-
From: Mailman-Users 
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+andrew=hodgsonfamily@python.org] On Behalf Of 
Mark Tyler
Sent: 08 September 2015 23:13
To: Mailman-Users@python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can any one help

Hi i keep getting the folowing emails
Clamscan reports Sanesecurity honeynet.hdb database integrity tested BAD
- SKIPPING
rsync: link_stat "/var/cache/clamav-unofficial-sigs/si-dbs/honeynet.hdb" 
failed: No such file or directory (2)
rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see previous errors) (code 
23) at main.c(1070) [sender=3.0.9] Failed to successfully update SecuriteInfo 
production database file: 
honeynet.hdb - SKIPPING
Clamscan reports Sanesecurity securiteinfobat.hdb database integrity tested BAD 
- SKIPPING
rsync: link_stat
"/var/cache/clamav-unofficial-sigs/si-dbs/securiteinfobat.hdb" failed: 
No such file or directory (2)
rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see previous errors) (code 
23) at main.c(1070) [sender=3.0.9] Failed to successfully update SecuriteInfo 
production database file: 
securiteinfobat.hdb - SKIPPING
Clamscan reports Sanesecurity securiteinfodos.hdb database integrity tested BAD 
- SKIPPING
rsync: link_stat
"/var/cache/clamav-unofficial-sigs/si-dbs/securiteinfodos.hdb" failed: 
No such file or directory (2)
rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see previous errors) (code 
23) at main.c(1070) [sender=3.0.9] Failed to successfully update SecuriteInfo 
production database file: 
securiteinfodos.hdb - SKIPPING
Clamscan reports Sanesecurity securiteinfoelf.hdb database integrity tested BAD 
- SKIPPING
rsync: link_stat
"/var/cache/clamav-unofficial-sigs/si-dbs/securiteinfoelf.hdb" failed: 
No such file or directory (2)
rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see previous errors) (code 
23) at main.c(1070) [sender=3.0.9] Failed to successfully update SecuriteInfo 
production database file: 
securiteinfoelf.hdb - SKIPPING
Clamscan reports Sanesecurity securiteinfooffice.hdb database integrity tested 
BAD - SKIPPING
rsync: link_stat
"/var/cache/clamav-unofficial-sigs/si-dbs/securiteinfooffice.hdb" 
failed: No such file or directory (2)
rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see previous errors) (code 
23) at main.c(1070) [sender=3.0.9] Failed to successfully update SecuriteInfo 
production database file: 
securiteinfooffice.hdb - SKIPPING
Clamscan reports Sanesecurity securiteinfopdf.hdb database integrity tested BAD 
- SKIPPING
rsync: link_stat
"/var/cache/clamav-unofficial-sigs/si-dbs/securiteinfopdf.hdb" failed: 
No such file or directory (2)
rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see previous errors) (code 
23) at main.c(1070) [sender=3.0.9] Failed to successfully update SecuriteInfo 
production database file: 
securiteinfopdf.hdb - SKIPPING
Clamscan reports Sanesecurity securiteinfosh.hdb database integrity tested BAD 
- SKIPPING
rsync: link_stat
"/var/cache/clamav-unofficial-sigs/si-dbs/securiteinfosh.hdb" failed: No such 
file or directory (2) rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see 
previous errors) (code 23) at main.c(1070) [sender=3.0.9] Failed to 
successfully update SecuriteInfo production database file: 
securiteinfosh.hdb - SKIPPING
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[Mailman-Users] Old chestnut: List integration with forum

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I have a list which is working well at the moment, but want to introduce a 
forum that gates to and from the list.

Which forum software currently in people's opinion has the best integration 
with Mailman 2.x?

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Looking for a server

[Andrew Hodgson]

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>I've not hosted a mailman list in a long while. I'm trying to help some folks 
>migrate a list with ten years of archives and no current subscribers just to 
>make the archives indexable by the various search engines. I see the list of 
>>hosting services on wiki.list.org, but I'd appreciate actual recommendations 
>(or pointers to prioritized lists), not an unprioritized list.

Have you tried mail-archive.com? Last time I used them I think they can take a 
Mailman mbox file and turn it into an archive.

Andrew. 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Web interface disappeared after upgrade to Jessie

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

In the upgrade to Jessie you got Apache 2.4, so you need to enable the CGI 
support by running a2enmod cgi then restart Apache.

Hope this helps,
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I have the same setup and the moderation pages work fine with my setup.  I 
would recommend ensuring your hosts are set up correctly in mm_cfg.py so that 
HTTPS is used.

Andrew.

-Original Message-
From: Mailman-Users 
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+andrew=hodgsonfamily@python.org] On Behalf Of 
John Griessen
Sent: 17 June 2016 15:58
To: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL

The rest of mailman version 2.1.22
is working fine with SSL and some rewriting by nginx and yet 
https://cibolo.us/mailman/admindb/open_electroporator  gives a message "will be 
sent over an insecure connection" when I seta button to discard and then do the 
submit all data button.

Is there a way to use SSL here?

Or... will I need to disable SSL for this page to get that submit to work?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Our list serv host is threatening to shut us down for spam abuse

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I would work with the provider in this situation.  In my case I run several 
lists which are all opt-in, but people click on the report as spam button in 
Yahoo and AOL, causing issues.  I have an agreement with the hosting provider 
who run the network that if they get any complaints from AOL or Hotmail that 
come through this route, that they forward them onto me and I unsubscribe them 
from the list.  With AOL it is difficult as they remove the original email 
address who is complaining, Hotmail is OK and now Yahoo reports get sent to me 
directly.

I send the list traffic through specific servers so that it doesn't affect 
anything else.

Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] moderator page behind nginx with SSL

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

Fwiw, here is my setup:

server {
listen 80;
listen [::]:80;
server_name lists.hodgsonfamily.org lists.bcab.org.uk;
access_log off;
error_log off;

location / {
rewrite ^ https://$host$request_uri permanent;
}
}

server {
listen 443 ssl;
listen [::]:443 ssl;
server_name lists.hodgsonfamily.org lists.bcab.org.uk;
access_log  /var/log/nginx/lists-access.log;
error_log  /var/log/nginx/lists-error.log warn;
root /var/www/lists;
ssl_certificate /etc/ssl/certs/samwise.hodgsonfamily.org.pem;
ssl_certificate_key /etc/ssl/private/samwise.hodgsonfamily.org.key;
ssl_ciphers 
'ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:DHE-DSS-AES128-GCM-SHA256:kEDH+AESGCM:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-SHA256:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-SHA:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-SHA384:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-SHA:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA256:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA256:DHE-DSS-AES256-SHA:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:AES128-GCM-SHA256:AES256-GCM-SHA384:AES128-SHA256:AES256-SHA256:AES128-SHA:AES256-SHA:AES:CAMELLIA:DES-CBC3-SHA:!aNULL:!eNULL:!EXPORT:!DES:!RC4:!MD5:!PSK:!aECDH:!EDH-DSS-DES-CBC3-SHA:!EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA:!KRB5-DES-CBC3-SHA';
ssl_prefer_server_ciphers on;
ssl_dhparam /etc/ssl/private/dhparams.pem;
add_header Strict-Transport-Security "max-age=31536000; 
includeSubdomains";
ssl_stapling on;
ssl_stapling_verify on;
resolver 80.68.80.24 80.68.80.25;

location = / {
rewrite ^ /listinfo permanent;
}

location ~ 
^/(admin|confirm|edithtml|listinfo|options|rmlist|subscribe|admindb|create|htdig|mmsearch|private|roster)
 {
fastcgi_split_path_info (^/[^/]*)(.*)$;
fastcgi_param SCRIPT_FILENAME 
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/$fastcgi_script_name;
fastcgi_param PATH_INFO $fastcgi_path_info;
fastcgi_pass  unix:/var/run/fcgiwrap.socket;
include /etc/nginx/fastcgi_params;
}

location /icons {
alias /usr/local/mailman/icons;
}

location /pipermail {
alias /usr/local/mailman/archives/public;
}
location /htdigimages {
alias /var/lib/htdig/www;
}
}

Here is my mm_cf.py file so you can see how I did the vhosts:

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/'
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Making a Case for Upgrading MailMan from 2.1.17

[Andrew Hodgson]

Dave Nathanson [dave.li...@nathanson.org] wrote:

>I'd like some help in making a case to convince my hosting company to upgrade 
>from Mailman 2.1.17.

>I run several email lists for clubs, these are discussion lists that get up to 
>20 messages per day, and include up to 150 members. Replies are directed back 
>to the list.

>My primary issue with MM 2.1.17 is about list messages from members who don't 
>have their human names configured into their email clients, resulting in a 
>list message from an unknown. It is just from "via listname 
>"
>Since I'm still stuck on 2.1.17. I don't know what I am missing in the newer 
>versions. I just know that it's been over 2 years since 2.1.17 which has an 
>annoying omission due the the whole DEMARC thing.

If you download the tar package for the latest version, 2.1.22, the NEWS file 
will give a changelog of what has changed between the versions.  I don't 
believe a newer version would help you with the issue you are experiencing, 
however, as that is due to the way that Mailman handles messages which come 
from senders who's email operator publishes DMARC records for their domain.

Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Making a Case for Upgrading MailMan from 2.1.17

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I was too hasty in sending out the prior message; actually there is a feature 
in 2.1.18 which I believe will help you with the issue you are having.

Prior to 2.1.18, the DMARC feature was activated on a per list basis, and was 
set for each member regardless of whether the sender's email provider had the 
DMARC set up on the domain.  With 2.1.18, you can set it up so the headers only 
get munged if the DMARC action on the domain is quarrentine or reject.  It is 
worth noting however that depending on how your host get Mailman, this feature 
may already be available.  For example, some RedHat packages prior to 2.1.18 
already have this feature built into them.

Sorry about that.
Andrew.


From: Andrew Hodgson
Sent: 23 June 2016 12:51
To: Dave Nathanson; mailman-users@python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Making a Case for Upgrading MailMan from 2.1.17

Dave Nathanson [dave.li...@nathanson.org] wrote:

>I'd like some help in making a case to convince my hosting company to upgrade 
>from Mailman 2.1.17.

>I run several email lists for clubs, these are discussion lists that get up to 
>20 messages per day, and include up to 150 members. Replies are directed back 
>to the list.

>My primary issue with MM 2.1.17 is about list messages from members who don't 
>have their human names configured into their email clients, resulting in a 
>list message from an unknown. It is just from "via listname 
>"
>Since I'm still stuck on 2.1.17. I don't know what I am missing in the newer 
>versions. I just know that it's been over 2 years since 2.1.17 which has an 
>annoying omission due the the whole DEMARC thing.

If you download the tar package for the latest version, 2.1.22, the NEWS file 
will give a changelog of what has changed between the versions.  I don't 
believe a newer version would help you with the issue you are experiencing, 
however, as that is due to the way that Mailman handles messages which come 
from senders who's email operator publishes DMARC records for their domain.

Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest formatting--clickable TOC?

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

I requested a similar feature a while ago:

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2014-December/078192.html

I am still asked for this feature quite often.

Andrew.

-Original Message-
From: Mailman-Users 
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+andrew=hodgsonfamily@python.org] On Behalf Of 
Matt Morgan
Sent: 02 September 2016 17:39
To: Mailman-Users@python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest formatting--clickable TOC?

One of the lists I'm now running uses Mailman as an aid to generating a 
periodical email publication. People send in items for topics, and an editor 
grafts them into a single large message that goes out about twice a month. The 
eventual publication looks a lot like a mailman digest, and that's what I'm 
switching it to.

The single-most user-requested improvement to this publication is that they 
want clickable links in the Table of Contents that anchor down to the entries 
in the list.

I understand that mailman can do digests as a series of MIME attachments to the 
TOC email, one for each posting. I don't think that's going to work for this 
crowd, although I'm not sure.

And I understand that not all email clients support anchors in html-formatted 
messages. But has anybody done something like this (where a digest's TOC is 
clickable and links down to the contents)? Are there other options I'm not 
thinking about?

Thanks,
Matt
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Major conflict will resolving hosting of DNU Maiman

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hi,

One option which I always use when hosting Mailman lists is to host lists in a 
subdomain, i.e, lists.domain.com.  This means the website hosting is untouched, 
and saves the cost of a separate domain.

Andrew.

-Original Message-
From: Mailman-Users 
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+andrew=hodgsonfamily@python.org] On Behalf Of 
Susan Fitzmaurice
Sent: 23 September 2016 19:45
To: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major conflict will resolving hosting of DNU Maiman

I hope you guys can help me, when I really am unsure what to even ask.

1. Host A was hosting our website and Mailman lists.
2. Host B/MacHighway was going to host our website and Host A was just going to 
host the email.

This did not work as Mailman evidently requires access to both the website 
domain and the lists.domain.

Host B/Machighway does not have the required software to host Mailman on a 
shared server.

What options do we have?
1. Have Host company A have 2 domains hosted. 1 domain will exist for the sole 
purpose of making Mailman work. The other domain will be for mail.
MacHighway will have the website.
2. Stop using Mailman and use something else. MacHighway will host website.
3.  ??Is there any "reseller" for Mailman who can host our
Mailman  and provide some tech support?

I want to continue to use MacHighway. They provide amazing tech support to a 
person like me who gets way in over the head on tech stuff.

Thanks,
Susan
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