[Mailman-Users] admin sripts problem

[Al Black]

Hi everyone,

I've just got a new virtual server with mailman (2.1.3) installed.  I've 
done some testing and have a few lists up and running.  I'm really pleased 
and impressed.  Its been years since I've done any administration, and I'm 
completely unfamiliar with python.

Anyhow, I've been trying out the list admin scripts unsuccessfully (with 
-h).  For example,

./version results in errors pointing to import paths.

so I crack open, paths.py and there's nothing obvious there that's causing 
the problem.

I'm exceedingly hesitant to start poking around, but it sounds like there 
might be a bad path definition somewhere.  I'm wondering if anyone could 
suggestions about what the problem might be, or how to go about tracking it 
down.

Thanks in advance.
al
  

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[Mailman-Users] admindb problem

[Al Black]

Hi gang,

I'm having a problem accessing the adminstrative database.

I just got a notice that there were 861 requests pending on the admin 
db.  When I try to log on, I get the following error.  (I've appended the 
bug report below.)  While testing I turned off the notification features, 
and I'm guessing that the admindb might have filled up...

Any suggestions as to how to clear out the db, or at least be able to login 
so I can clear up the trouble?

Thanks in advance.
al
---

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of 
this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what 
happened. Thanks!
Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in 
run_main
main()
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 
236, in main
print doc.Format()
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 
331, in Format
output.append(Container.Format(self, indent))
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 
264, in Format
output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 50, 
in HTMLFormatObject
return item.Format(indent)
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 
417, in Format
output = output + Container.Format(self, indent+2)
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 
264, in Format
output.append(HTMLFormatObject(item, indent))
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 50, 
in HTMLFormatObject
return item.Format(indent)
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 
200, in Format
output = output + self.FormatRow(i, indent + 2)
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 
188, in FormatRow
output = output + self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2)
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 
172, in FormatCell
item_format = HTMLFormatObject(item, indent+4)
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 50, 
in HTMLFormatObject
return item.Format(indent)
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 
200, in Format
output = output + self.FormatRow(i, indent + 2)
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 
188, in FormatRow
output = output + self.FormatCell(row, i, indent + 2)
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 
172, in FormatCell
item_format = HTMLFormatObject(item, indent+4)
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 50, 
in HTMLFormatObject
return item.Format(indent)
  File "/usr/home/lamps/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py", line 
200, in Format
output = output + self.FormatRow(i, indent + 2)
MemoryError



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[Mailman-Users] 2 quick log files question

[Al Black]

Hi gang,

2 quick questions.

Just confirming what looks evident from the faq, but is it necessary to 
create the new log files, or will mailman automatically create one if it 
tries to append to file if it isn't there?

Secondly, I have savelogs available rather than Eric Toran's logrotate.  If 
anyone else is using savelogs on a FreeBSD, I'd be interested in hearing 
your experience especially in regard to the timing of mailmanctl stopping 
and starting.

Thanks in advance.

al

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: Question on forwarded admin requests.

[Al Black]

At 01:18 PM 2/20/2004 -0600, Paul H Byerly wrote:

 So, could the same system be tweaked to reject any mail sent with 
"Re:  Digest" in the subject?  This is a feature on another 
list I am on, and I'd really like to add it to my system.


There's a couple of way you can sort of do this now, fiddling  Max message 
size/Digest size options, and the taboo header options in 2.1.4.

A more elegant solution would be to put to alter the X-BeenThere: 
 to X-BeenThere:  --Digest version for list members 
with the digest version.  On the notion that many mailers would preseserve 
the X-BeenThere, it could be filtered for with the taboo header filters.

Has any of you written a hack of this?  I have no idea how to go about this.

Thanks,
al 

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[Mailman-Users] logging problems

[Al Black]

Hi gang,

I'm trying to hunt down a logging problem.  I set up weekly log rotation, 
and it ran fine.  However in the two days subsequently, there been no 
further logging in the locks, post, qrunner, and smtp log files and there's 
been lots of traffic on the lists.

I can't think or see any reason why it should be a problem.  Maybe I 
clobbered the permissions, I touch all these files to make sure they exist 
before restarting mailmanctl.  Could some one send what the correct 
permission are?  Or even better yet, anyone have any ideas what the problem 
could be, or how to troubleshoot this one?

Thanks in advance.
al
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[Mailman-Users] Re: mm_stats question

[Al Black]

Hey John,

At 01:08 PM 2/27/2004 -0500, Jon Carnes wrote:

I just double checked and it works fine on all my sites...
Do you have any lists with "=" in the name?
If that doesn't do it for you, then drop a copy of your post log and the
name of the list with the problems and I'll see what needs to be
modified.
Nope didn't do the trick.  None of the lists have an "=" in them but all 
but two have "-"

lls
test
lls-business
lls-ts
lls-12step-men
lls-12step-women
I've attached the post logs, although there's not much in it because I 
rotated them a while ago.  If its better I can un pack one, and send it 
along.  The bug still happens though, even with the limited set.

Thanks.

al Feb 27 10:52:19 2004 (42920) post to test from [EMAIL PROTECTED], size=950, 
message-id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 1 failures
Feb 27 10:54:51 2004 (42920) post to test from [EMAIL PROTECTED], size=950, 
message-id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 1 failures
Feb 27 10:55:32 2004 (42920) post to lls from [EMAIL PROTECTED], size=1549, 
message-id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, success
Feb 27 11:11:16 2004 (42920) post to lls from [EMAIL PROTECTED], size=1388, 
message-id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, success
Feb 27 11:25:29 2004 (42920) post to lls from [EMAIL PROTECTED], size=2461, 
message-id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, success
Feb 27 11:43:31 2004 (42920) post to lls from [EMAIL PROTECTED], size=3733, 
message-id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, success
Feb 27 11:45:54 2004 (42920) post to 12-step-women from [EMAIL PROTECTED], size=1495, 
message-id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, success
Feb 27 11:51:38 2004 (42920) post to 12-step-women from [EMAIL PROTECTED], size=1234, 
message-id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, success
Feb 27 12:01:55 2004 (42920) post to lls from [EMAIL PROTECTED], size=1949, 
message-id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, success
Feb 27 12:02:45 2004 (42920) post to lls from [EMAIL PROTECTED], size=2310, 
message-id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, success
Feb 27 12:27:07 2004 (42920) post to lls from [EMAIL PROTECTED], size=3337, 
message-id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, success
Feb 27 12:35:53 2004 (42920) post to lls from [EMAIL PROTECTED], size=1622, 
message-id=, success
Feb 27 12:45:14 2004 (42920) post to lls from [EMAIL PROTECTED], size=1370, 
message-id=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, success
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[Mailman-Users] archive rotation

[Al Black]

Hi everyone,

I'm wondering if anyone has a script that manages archive rotation.  I'm 
thinking of something that can run from cron and keeps messages that have 
been around less than an month (30 days, etc), and discarding the rest.

I remember from some early looks through the list archives on a different 
topic that someone posted a perl script to the list, but after a couple 
hours of looking I can't seem to turn it up.

Thanks in advance,
al
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Re: [Mailman-Users] archive rotation

[Al Black]

I use logrotate at my sites to rotate my logs monthly. It's simple to
setup and it's already running on most systems. I generally keep 4
months worth of back logs.
Thanks, actually, I'm using savelogs, and keeping a couple of months worth 
of data.  So far so good.

In any case I'm curious about something.  You use: mailmanctl reopen.  In 
the script that I wrote, I stop mailman, run rotation scheme, and then 
start and reopen mailmanctl, because I was concerned about clobbering some 
ongoing process.

Was this an unnecessary concern?

al





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Re: [Mailman-Users] archive rotation

[Al Black]

Hi Jon, all.

> >I'm wondering if anyone has a script that manages archive rotation.  I'm
> >thinking of something that can run from cron and keeps messages that have
> > been around less than an month (30 days, etc), and discarding the rest.
I use logrotate at my sites to rotate my logs monthly. It's simple to
setup and it's already running on most systems. I generally keep 4
months worth of back logs.
Thanks.  I guess I should have been more clear.

What I'm wondering about is the archived messages in 
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/* rather than the log files.  I have 
the lists set up so that new archive volumes are set up on a monthly 
basis.  So the directory for each list looks like:

2003-December  (directory)
2003-December.txt
2003-December.txt.gz
2004-February (directory)
2004-February.txt
2004-February.txt.gz
2004-January (directory)
2004-January.txt
2004-January.txt.gz
2004-March (directory)
2004-March.txt
2004-March.txt.gz
And inside each of those directories are a whack of html files, pages, and 
a symbolic link.

Ideally, I'd like to keep 30 days of messages, so that users who go on 
vacation or set no mail for various reasons can go back and take a look at 
what they missed.  Its different than the usual reasons for having an 
archive, but it makes sense for social kinds of mailing lists.

Obviously, I'll have to do some configuration tweaks, switch to a yearly 
archive, and parse from there.   But it wouldn't surprise me if someone had 
done something like this before.

Thanks,
al
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Re: [Mailman-Users] archive rotation

[Al Black]

Hey Jon, all

Doh! I really should drink my coffee before answering these.
Understand completely.

I've written some stuff that does this for Pipermail. It's not as easy
as you think.
I looked at the instructions for removing items in the FAQ over lunch; no 
kidding.

You can use a trigger email that is sent to the archives monthly (mine's
cleverly disguised as a monthly mailing list policy reminder). If you
use that as your anchor within the mbox file, then cutting the file is
fairly trivial.
Oh, good idea.  I think that will make it more manageable.

Thanks,
al 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] open list

[Al Black]

On April 16, 2004 07:22 am, Nélson Jorge Teixeira de Brito wrote:
> This must be a strange question but i'd like to know how can i open a list
> to non members. Can someone tell me how to do it?

In the list admin panel under privacy features, senders optoins, go to:

"Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is 
defined."

And select "accept".

For what its worth if you do so, you might want to run spamassassin (or 
something else that tags spam)  and filter them to trash by using the privacy 
features, spam filters settings from the admin web interface.

Hope this helps...

al


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Admin

[Al Black]

On April 22, 2004 12:06 pm, Net Mail wrote:
> hi
> how to for setup the password for create a list ?

cd ~/usr/local/mailman/bin
(or wherever you have mailman stored)

mmsitepass is what you are looking for, and mmsitepass -h will give you more 
info.

al

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Re: [Mailman-Users] time stamp in logs

[Al Black]

On Tuesday 11 May 2004 13:08, Al Black wrote:
> Hi gang,
>
> I didn't see anything in the FAQ about this, so I thought I'd check here. 
> Is there a way to configure mailman so that its log entries can be written
> in GMT rather than the local server time?

Got it.  The easiest solution is to change my local server time:

cp /usr/share/zoneinfo/GMT ~/etc/localtime

al

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[Mailman-Users] time stamp in logs

[Al Black]

Hi gang,

I didn't see anything in the FAQ about this, so I thought I'd check here.  Is 
there a way to configure mailman so that its log entries can be written in  
GMT rather than the local server time? 

thanks in advance

al

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Email commands

[Al Black]

Hey,

On April 30, 2004 02:18 pm, Dan Phillips wrote:
> On Apr 30, 2004, at 12:31 PM, Kai Schaetzl wrote:
> > Louis Proyect wrote on Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:59:45 -0400:
> >> Supposedly a message of "who 'password'"  sent to
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] will provide such a list but it does not
> >> seem
> >> to recognize the command
> >
> > So, what does it say in the reply?
>
> I wasn't the OP of this thread, but I've had the same frustration in
>
> the past. 

I remember having this problem when I was first testing out mailman a while 
ago (v 2.1 if I remember correctly), running on BSD.

I had the privacy options set so that only listmembers could see the other 
listmembers.  When I sent in a request as just a listmember with the list 
members password, then I got the error message.  When I sent in the request 
as a listmember with the list-owners password, mailman returned the desired 
results.  It also worked using the server-admin level password.  I didn't 
fool around with the various permutations, or work on debugging it.

Since getting the list of members was a regular need, I ended up solving it, 
by writing a script using 

~/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members -f listname | mail -s"listname list 
members" someaddressalias

and running it as a cron job.

Hope this helps,
al

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Open / Close lists

[Al Black]

On Sat, 2004-05-22 at 16:17, Brian York wrote:
> Were are the settings for open and closed lists for mailman 2.14?

It kind of depends on what you mean by an open or closed list.  You
should look at the subscription rules and sender filters under the
privacy options of the list administrator interface, and then select
what you think is appropriate for the list.

al


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Sudden mass of unsubscribe notices?

[Al Black]

On Wed, 2004-05-26 at 11:13, Sean Robertson wrote:
> An email was sent out through our email list two days ago, and just now
> I got 33 unsubscribe notices.  The notices offer no explanation of
> whether the users did it, an admin did it, or it was some kind of
> automatic process.  Is there any way to find out?  What could cause it
> to suddenly delete 33 subscriptions all at exactly the same time two
> days after the last newsletter went out? 

Looking in the log files will help you find out:

~/usr/local/mailman/logs/subscribe

(or where you put mailman)

al






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Re: [Mailman-Users] Activity/Usage Analysis

[Al Black]

Hi Fabio,

> Has anyone written an add-on that would allow for activity/usage analysis?

Jon Carnes has written some bash scripts you could use or and modify to
suit your needs.

You can find them in the mailman archives, at:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Specifically, you'll want to look at:

http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg09075.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg09073.html

For what its worth, adding list stats might be something to consider
adding to 3.0 version.  (Nice to have, but not need to have!)

Hope this helps,
al



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: Text and virus infections (was: Per-user anonymity? nickname capability?)

[Al Black]

Hey Mark, all.

On Sun, 2004-07-25 at 13:46, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Assuming you mean plain text (ie text/plain and NOT text/html), you are
> still at risk of delivering e-mail containing uuencoded malware
> (worms, trojans, and virus infected programs). The risk is not large,
> because most worms send themselves as MIME attachments, not uuencoded,
> but a uuencoded file is (or can be) part of a text/plain message and
> is still recognized and decoded as an attachment by some MUAs.

I take it that running demime or strip mime doesn't help with this
susceptablity either, right?

al 

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Re: How to respond to FAQs [was: [Mailman-Users] Banner and Complex code ...]

[Al Black]

Hey.

You know this is a for "what its worth" observation.  If you go back and
look over the past couple of months FAQ questions, it looks like there
are two classes of users, people who have shell access -- mailman
administrators and listkeepers/moderators who don't.  These different
users have a different set of FAQ questions, and my guess is respond to
the differently to Brad's steeped in RTFM culture responses. (2 cents
but Brad's response doesn't seem all that rude.) 

Wonder if it would help if the FAQ was split along these lines or if the
listkeepers list was working...

al 



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[Mailman-Users] held messages via command line

[Al Black]

Hi gang,

Question about removing held messages via command line.  I'm using
version 2.1.4 on BSD.   

I've been doing some re-administration, or post administration for lack
of a better term, on the machine after being away for a year and a bit. 
I've cleaned away most of the held messages by command line for the
lists using the methods in FAQ 4.74.

However, we've got a whack (i.e., several 1000) held messages for the
list "Mailman".  Both "bin/discard data/heldmsg--*"
and "find data -name heldmsg--\* -print | xargs bin/discard"
stall when I use them.  Even when I use bin/discard for a single held
message, it stalls.  

Any ideas on how to proceed?  I could rm the bunch, but I don't have a
copy of the empty admin.db copy in (as per the old faq entry).  I
suppose I could hold my nose, but my gut feeling is that this huge
number of held messages is not a good thing... 

al

  




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[Mailman-Users] member address in envolope ID and From: lines

[Al Black]

Hi everyone,

I'm working with an issue that is related to:




Specifically, I have some users on a couple of lists that are gmail users with 
multiple accounts linked to that gmail address.  They use it to send mail while 
at work, but still have it appear to come from their home address.  All good 
except when they a) screw up with the wrong address, or b) when that old 
address is no longer active.  (And there is a history of people forging mail on 
the lists, not the case now, but you know people are sensitive about the 
issue...)

I have modified the mm_cfg.py file from:

SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')

to:

SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', 'reply-to', 'sender')

and it works.

Thinking about it a bit more, it would be better if there was a check to make 
sure the email address in the envelope ID matched actually matched the address 
in the "From:".  Is there a way of setting that in the  mm_cfg.py file?  
Ideally, my preference would be to work with the individual users on this, in 
part because it only happened on a couple of lists.  Could a Regexp catch this 
in the spam filters settings.

Thanks!

al
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Re: [Mailman-Users] member address in envolope ID and From: lines

[Al Black]

Hey everyone:

On 2013-04-16, at 10:24 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> Al Black writes:
> 
>> Specifically, I have some users on a couple of lists that are gmail
>> users with multiple accounts linked to that gmail address.  They
>> use it to send mail while at work, but still have it appear to come
>> from their home address.
> 
> This means that the envelope address will not match the From address
> as far as I can see.  So I don't understand this requirement:
> 
>> Thinking about it a bit more, it would be better if there was a
>> check to make sure the email address in the envelope ID matched
>> actually matched the address in the "From:".
> 
> This is a very strong requirement to impose on users.  It makes it
> difficult to present yourself appropriately if you're sending from a
> different address for some reason.  (If I misunderstood the scenario
> you present in the first paragraph, this may not be a problem for your
> subscribers, but I would find it a major PITA if I were subscribed.)
> 
> OTOH, in most cases it should not be restrictive to require envelope
> sender = Sender.

I see the confusion.  The problem occurs when the person sends from
gmail but accidentally uses a From: address they don't have subscribed
to the list.  That's the one's I'm trying to catch, because it creates
list mayhem about forged mail etc etc. 

Good point Stephen, I'm going to dig through a couple months of mail
on the list to make sure I'm not using a hammer to solve a gnat problem.

@ Mark -- Thanks, I'll try both, but most likely will implement a custom
handler.

All the best,
al
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[Mailman-Users] quick question

[Al Black]

Hi gang,

I'm getting a little tired of going through the mail logs just to get an idea 
of "how are the damn dmarc bounces" doing today.

Has anybody written a little script to sort through and count the bounces?  
Ideally, it would mail me the results, though part of me thinks it would be 
more ideal to mail to results to me and yahoo abuse.

thanks,
al
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[Mailman-Users] aol fyi

[Al Black]

Hey gang,

For all those keeping track on DMARC aol has changed its DMARC settings to 
reject:
http://postmaster-blog.aol.com/2014/04/22/aol-mail-updates-dmarc-policy-to-reject/

al
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to allow anyone to send to a list

[Al Black]

On Fri, 2004-09-10 at 15:56, Chris Barnes wrote:
> 
> How do I set them to Send= Public so that the messages from 
> non-subscribed members still get distributed?

>From the list administrators web page under:

Privacy Options --> Sender Filters

For the question:

"Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit
action is defined."

select accept and hit the submit button.

For what its worth the list members might appreciate it you are using
demime and some sort of spam tagging with this kind of open list.

al


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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I make a one way list ? :)

[Al Black]

Hi Sven,

On Mon, 2004-09-13 at 08:31, sven osterwalder wrote:
> Hello,
> how do I make a one way list? I want, that just one address can send to the list and 
> all others get rejected. How do I do this ?

What you are trying to configure is called a moderated or announcement
list.  For directions on how to set it up go to:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> 

and search for "announcement".

al


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Re: [Mailman-Users] The "right" way to reply to a mailing list

[Al Black]

On 2015-03-20, at 9:39 PM, J.B. Nicholson-Owens wrote:

> Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> I've always found it proper and useful to include the quoted material
>> of the original message, but trim the quotes to just the bit you are
>> responding to. I'd call this interleaved-with-trimming.
>> 
>> Top posting has always been a serious breach of netiquette.
> 
> I concur and I still consider this to be true on the grounds of legibility. I 
> find it far more clear to read point followed by rebuttal instead of reading 
> rebuttals followed by having to figure out which points were being rebutted.

Further to the point, between top posting and lack of editing, the digest 
format of list posts are essentially unreadable.  Moreover, on more extended 
threads, entire digests can consist of a single post depending on how you set 
your size limits.

Although the ideal solution is obviously users changing their behaviour and or 
MUAs, I've wondered whether an "auto-trim" function within mailman would make 
sense (for digest users...)  

Its been a thought provoking discussion btw, thanks to all.

al
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The "right" way to reply to a mailing list

[Al Black]

Hey everyone,

On 2015-03-23, at 1:26 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> On 03/23/2015 02:54 AM, Lucio Chiappetti wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015, Al Black wrote:
>> 
>>> Further to the point, between top posting and lack of editing, the
>>> digest format of list posts are essentially unreadable.
>> 
>> Do you mean the MIME digests produced by mailman ? I totally disagree,
>> they are one of the best features.
> 
> I think he's referring to the difficulty of reading (in particular) the
> plain format digest when it's full of top posted "me too" replies with
> quotes of quotes ...
> 
> Trying to find the original material amongst the quotes which you've
> already seen multiple times in the same digest is daunting to say the least.

Thanks Mark, that's my point precisely.  What I've heard from users is that the 
mime digests are better but it depends on their MUA(s).  

I spent a few hours yesterday thinking about a "cleaner" to improve the signal 
noise for the kind of posts were talking about.  Not a simple problem to solve 
(well for me anyway).  

al
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[Mailman-Users] Re: What happened to my list posting?

[Al Black]

Hi everyone,

For what it's worth, the encoding issue has also been happening with a couple 
of lists, I admit.  Multiple users, can’t seem to find a common denomintor, but 
I’ve just started looking at.

I’m Using Cpanel, Mailman version 2.1.39, and Apple Mail. FWIW.  I’ll report 
back with some more headers later tonight if it isn’t fixed by then.

Thanks!

al 



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