[Mailman-Users] Re: Plus addressing
Hello robertowenbere...@gmail.com. On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 14:01:58 -, you wrote: > Does the list support plus addressing? > Google and O365 support plus addressing. This allows someone to > subscribe as myself+li...@mycompany.com when their real email address > is mys...@company.com. The problem is that when they reply, or > generate a new message, it may be held or rejected because it is > coming from an address different than they subscribed with. Instead of using "Plus addressing", in most (if not all) mail programs it is possible to set up rules for messages coming from a certain source. This rule can sort messages from mailinglist1 in one mail folder, and messages from mailinglist2 in another folder. Christian -- Christian Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland) Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: https://www.chance-for-children.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman user problem
I am still struggling with this. I tried to add a shell for mailman in /etc/passwd. I am now able to su to mailman but I'm not sure that is the way it is supposed to be. I am doing this so I can manually run 'fetchmail' with the -v option. However, I now get a permissions error when fetchmail tries to create its pid file. It is in /usr/lib/mailman' and runs as user mailman. I am now confused by the permissions of that directory. drwxr-xr-x. 13 root mailman 4096 Mar 22 05:09 ../mailman Is that correct? When I run perms_check it seems to think so. Is is safe to give group mailman r/w access to that directory? Is that something that changed from previous versions? I'm running 2.1.15-30. On 3/20/2022 5:35 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote: I don't know what happened but mailman is no longer working (CentOS 7). I don't think it is mailman per se but I don't know where else to turn for help. I am feeding mailman using fetchmail from gmail.com which has been working fine for eons. For some reason fetchmail no longer works as I get this error: Old UID list from pop.gmail.com: After considerable research I THINK I have traced the problem to the mailman account since fetchmail runs as mailman via cron. It appears that the crontab for mailman is gone and I cannot 'su - mailman' to run 'crontab' on 'crontab.in'. Although isn't that supposed to happen automatically? Nor can I run fetchmail as mailman. I get the error: This account is currently not available. The passwd file entry is: mailman:x:41:41:GNU Mailing List Manager:/usr/lib/mailman:/sbin/nologin I think it has always been that way but I'm not sure since '/sbin/nologin' means there is no shell and is why I am getting that error. I don't, at this point, see how it could have ever worked. In any case I need some help figuring out why mailman is getting that error. FWIW, if I run 'passwd -S mailman', I get this: mailman NP 2022-03-19 -1 -1 -1 -1 (Empty password.) TIA OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: Plus addressing
On 3/22/22 3:23 AM, Christian via Mailman-Users wrote: Hello robertowenbere...@gmail.com. On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 14:01:58 -, you wrote: Does the list support plus addressing? Google and O365 support plus addressing. This allows someone to subscribe as myself+li...@mycompany.com when their real email address is mys...@company.com. The problem is that when they reply, or generate a new message, it may be held or rejected because it is coming from an address different than they subscribed with. Instead of using "Plus addressing", in most (if not all) mail programs it is possible to set up rules for messages coming from a certain source. This rule can sort messages from mailinglist1 in one mail folder, and messages from mailinglist2 in another folder. Christian I think part of the thinking is that if a spammer gets hold of one address, you can filter it off and still use the account. The problem is that the spammer may well understand + hacking, and get back to the root address, so it doesn't really help. -- Richard Damon -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: Plus addressing
On 2022-03-22 at 03:23:29 UTC-0400 (Tue, 22 Mar 2022 08:23:29 +0100) Christian via Mailman-Users is rumored to have said: Hello robertowenbere...@gmail.com. On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 14:01:58 -, you wrote: Does the list support plus addressing? Google and O365 support plus addressing. This allows someone to subscribe as myself+li...@mycompany.com when their real email address is mys...@company.com. The problem is that when they reply, or generate a new message, it may be held or rejected because it is coming from an address different than they subscribed with. Instead of using "Plus addressing", in most (if not all) mail programs it is possible to set up rules for messages coming from a certain source. This rule can sort messages from mailinglist1 in one mail folder, and messages from mailinglist2 in another folder. And sometimes users use plus addressing (or other related 'tagging' schemes) to support such rules. Of course, that's not the business of a mailing list operator. We should assume that our users know what they're doing and that it isn't our business unless they need help. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: Plus addressing
On 2022-03-21 at 10:01:58 UTC-0400 (Mon, 21 Mar 2022 14:01:58 -) is rumored to have said: Does the list support plus addressing? What do you mean by that question??? "Plus addressing" is only relevant to final local delivery and in some cases to intra-realm bespoke mail routing. Address local-parts MUST NEVER be interpreted as anything but opaque nonces unless they are in "your" domains. Do not attempt to parse, validate, translate, or canonicalize local-parts in other people's domains. A mailing list MUST NOT generically equate two local-parts in a non-local domain without the explicit permission of the users whose addresses are being equated. Google and O365 support plus addressing. That is not relevant to a mailing list not operated by Google or MS. Support for plus-addressing has been widespread for decades. If it isn't YOUR plussed address, it's just an address. The plus in the local part is none of your business. Do not touch it. You cannot know how an address owner is handling plussed addresses unless they tell you, and that does not mean unless their mail provider tells you. This allows someone to subscribe as myself+li...@mycompany.com when their real email address is mys...@company.com. Yes. I do something similar and have for decades. Every list I subscribe to uses a different address, all of which ultimately deliver to mailboxes in the same IMAP account. I abandoned the '+' as a delimiter some years ago because of the bad habit of some mail handlers of trying to disassemble plussed addresses. The problem is that when they reply, or generate a new message, it may be held or rejected because it is coming from an address different than they subscribed with. That is 100% the sender's problem. If they can't send and receive mail with the address they used to subscribe, they should never have used it to subscribe. It's fine to accommodate specific individuals' incapacity to use their addressing flexibility as designed. If a MUA doesn't support sending mail with arbitrary plus addressing, it doesn't really support plus addressing. That includes webmail MUAs like GMail and MS365/OWA. Desktop MUAs have been supporting this since Eudora v1.0, so it's hardly a novel feature. I am aware of the hack at: https://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20can%20I%20post%20from%202%20or%20more%20addresses%20to%20a%20%22members-only%22%20list%3F However this does not appeal to the tinfoil hat crowd who thinks you are just going to sell both addresses. Nor do I want to explain to the masses this hack. The only reason to do that is to accommodate individuals who specifically want it and/or who chronically send with a wrong address and so clearly need it. The idea of a discussion mailing list 'selling addresses' is silly. Without significant customization any subscriber to a discussion mailing list using Mailman or similar tools can see the address of every person posting to the list. If one uses an email address in a public way for long enough, it will get to spammers. Even if you don't use it publicly, spammers may land on it with guesses and other users might typo their addresses to yours when giving it to others. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: mailman user problem
On 3/22/22 02:25, Dennis Putnam wrote: I am still struggling with this. The first question is did you see https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/message/HW45AWBEKJFZKCPWJYKVSXLFJU3SKZPM/ and is the issue with fetchmail getting the mail from gmail.com, or does fetchmail get the mail and can't deliver it to Mailman. I tried to add a shell for mailman in /etc/passwd. I am now able to su to mailman but I'm not sure that is the way it is supposed to be. I am doing this so I can manually run 'fetchmail' with the -v option. However, I now get a permissions error when fetchmail tries to create its pid file. It is in /usr/lib/mailman' and runs as user mailman. I am now confused by the permissions of that directory. drwxr-xr-x. 13 root mailman 4096 Mar 22 05:09 ../mailman Is that correct? No. If that's the directory that contains things like Mailman, lists, archives, etc., group mailman is correct, but it needs to be group writable and setgid, i.e. drwxrwsr-x When I run perms_check it seems to think so. It shouldn't. Is is safe to give group mailman r/w access to that directory? Is that something that changed from previous versions? I'm running 2.1.15-30. It hasn't changed, it's always been necessary. See https://www.list.org/mailman-install/create-install-dir.html. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] crontab Problem
For some reason the crontab for mailman is gone. When I try run crontab for mailman on crontab.in there is no error but when I run 'crontab -l -u mailman' it says there is no crontab. Can someone tell me how to fix this? TIA. OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: crontab Problem
On 3/22/22 11:47, Dennis Putnam wrote: For some reason the crontab for mailman is gone. When I try run crontab for mailman on crontab.in there is no error but when I run 'crontab -l -u mailman' it says there is no crontab. Can someone tell me how to fix this? TIA. Are you running crontab as the mailman user? ``` crontab -u mailman path/to/crontab.in ``` or ``` sudo -u mailman crontab path/to/crontab.in ``` -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: crontab Problem
On 3/22/22 12:00, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 3/22/22 11:47, Dennis Putnam wrote: For some reason the crontab for mailman is gone. When I try run crontab for mailman on crontab.in there is no error but when I run 'crontab -l -u mailman' it says there is no crontab. Can someone tell me how to fix this? TIA. Are you running crontab as the mailman user? ``` crontab -u mailman path/to/crontab.in ``` or ``` sudo -u mailman crontab path/to/crontab.in ``` Also, if you ran this for another user, you clobbered that user's crontab and you need to remove the mailman crontab from that user and restore the original if any. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: crontab Problem
Hi Mark, Doh, my bad. I have 2 sudo's installed and was using the wrong one. I have to use /bin/sudo to get the standard one. Thanks for jogging my memory. On 3/22/2022 3:11 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 3/22/22 12:00, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 3/22/22 11:47, Dennis Putnam wrote: For some reason the crontab for mailman is gone. When I try run crontab for mailman on crontab.in there is no error but when I run 'crontab -l -u mailman' it says there is no crontab. Can someone tell me how to fix this? TIA. Are you running crontab as the mailman user? ``` crontab -u mailman path/to/crontab.in ``` or ``` sudo -u mailman crontab path/to/crontab.in ``` Also, if you ran this for another user, you clobbered that user's crontab and you need to remove the mailman crontab from that user and restore the original if any. OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: crontab Problem
Hi Mark, What would cause the entire crontab to disappear? Would a system update that modifies cron do something with non-root crontabs? I guess that is a question for the CentOS folks. On 3/22/2022 3:00 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 3/22/22 11:47, Dennis Putnam wrote: For some reason the crontab for mailman is gone. When I try run crontab for mailman on crontab.in there is no error but when I run 'crontab -l -u mailman' it says there is no crontab. Can someone tell me how to fix this? TIA. Are you running crontab as the mailman user? ``` crontab -u mailman path/to/crontab.in ``` or ``` sudo -u mailman crontab path/to/crontab.in ``` OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: crontab Problem
On 3/22/22 12:23, Dennis Putnam wrote: Hi Mark, What would cause the entire crontab to disappear? Would a system update that modifies cron do something with non-root crontabs? I guess that is a question for the CentOS folks. A system update shouldn't affect user crontabs. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: Plus addressing
On 3/21/22 8:01 AM, robertowenbere...@gmail.com wrote: Does the list support plus addressing? Yes and no. I believe the more proper name for this is user+detail. I see "plus(ed) addressing" used more commonly more recently. Yes, Mailman will happily accept user+detail addresses from subscribers. No, Mailman itself won't treat user+detail@ and user@ as equal. I am aware of the hack at: This is what I've been doing for years. However this does not appeal to the tinfoil hat crowd who thinks you are just going to sell both addresses. There are a lot of things that don't appeal to people for one reason or another. Nor do I want to explain to the masses this hack. You have to make a choice. Use separate addresses (and subscribe both) or don't, it's up to each individual. There may very well be client side options too. E.g. configuring the MUA that when you are on a folder for a given mailing list that it uses a different source address when composing messages. Though this has it's own failure mode related to false positive / negatives. There might be an MUA option to change sender addresses based on destination addresses. What is the lesser evil to you / your users? -- Grant. . . . unix || die smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
