[Mailman-Users] Re: Add "sender's name/email" to BODY of mail as header?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Alex Bellig writes:
 > I am interested in this option as well. Here is a scenario:
 > When people send a message to the group and don't sign their name,
 > I want their name to be picked from the membership list and
 > mentioned at the top of the body as From: 
 > It will follow with their message in the body of the email.

This is not possible to do reliably in email due to the control of the
relevant information by email authors.  If it's merely an issue of
authors forgetting, then it could be done, but Mailman provides no
such feature.

 > So is there a variable that displays the name of the person and
 > which template can we add it to.

No.  Personalization is designed for the benefit of the *recipient*.
So the variables that are available are the recipient's: their email
address, their personal options page, the archive URL, and the like.

A variable identifying the sender should be unnecessary with a
typically configured list.  Normally, the person's name and email
address are available as "From" in the email header.  All mail clients
display this header field by default.  If they are at one of the
(obnoxious) commercial services that have restrictive DMARC policies,
>From can be set to something like

From: "A. N. User via This Mailing List" 

and Reply-To (normally hidden by most mail clients) to

Reply-To: "A. N. User" ,
  some-l...@example.net

(where the reply-to some-list is optional, depending on whether
reply_to_list is set in the list configuration).  This is a compromise
that avoids triggering bounces from recipients and allows somewhat
convenient reply-to-author.

If you have set personalization to "full" or configured an "anonymous
list", then From is set to the list.  But this is rarely desirable
behavior unless you want to conceal the author's identity, or it's an
announcement list where the list is the author in some sense, and the
identity of the human "secretary" who composed the message is
unimportant.  If you want help configuring your list(s) to show the
original poster, we can provide that.

Much as I hate to say it, if your users need this kind of feature, you
should consider migrating to a web forum instead of a mailing list.
Web forums are much more helpful in this way.  Mailing lists, and
their developers, are biased to allowing (and requiring) their users
to take care of these things themselves.

Steve

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Add "sender's name/email" to BODY of mail as header?

[Sam Kuper]

On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 11:00:20PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Alex Bellig writes:
>  > I am interested in this option as well. Here is a scenario:
>  > When people send a message to the group and don't sign their name,
>  > I want their name to be picked from the membership list and
>  > mentioned at the top of the body as From: 
>  > It will follow with their message in the body of the email.
> 
> This is not possible to do reliably in email due to the control of the
> relevant information by email authors.

Just wondering... I can see that the above would be true in the case of
lists that allow anybody to post.  But is it true even in the case of
lists that can only be posted to by subscribers?

(Well, I guess that Subscriber A could spoof their message as being from
Subscriber B.  But barring pathological cases like that, presumably
Mailman can match the sender's email address against the subscriber list
and find the value of the corresponding name field.)

Sam

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Add "sender's name/email" to BODY of mail as header?

[Robert Heller]

At Sat, 13 Feb 2021 23:00:20 +0900 "Stephen J. Turnbull" 
 wrote:

> 
> Content-Type: text/plain
> 
> Alex Bellig writes:
>  > I am interested in this option as well. Here is a scenario:
>  > When people send a message to the group and don't sign their name,
>  > I want their name to be picked from the membership list and
>  > mentioned at the top of the body as From: 
>  > It will follow with their message in the body of the email.
> 
> This is not possible to do reliably in email due to the control of the
> relevant information by email authors.  If it's merely an issue of
> authors forgetting, then it could be done, but Mailman provides no
> such feature.
> 
>  > So is there a variable that displays the name of the person and
>  > which template can we add it to.
> 
> No.  Personalization is designed for the benefit of the *recipient*.
> So the variables that are available are the recipient's: their email
> address, their personal options page, the archive URL, and the like.
> 
> A variable identifying the sender should be unnecessary with a
> typically configured list.  Normally, the person's name and email
> address are available as "From" in the email header.  All mail clients
> display this header field by default.  If they are at one of the

Actually, *some* mail clients don't display all of the From header, specificly
some smart phone clients only display the e-mail address and not the comment
-- I believe this is due to limited screen space. Often e-mail address can be
cryptic or otherwise uninformative. Oh, and with DMARC From munging, the
e-mail address on the from header will be the the list and not the original
sender. 

> (obnoxious) commercial services that have restrictive DMARC policies,
> >From can be set to something like
> 
> From: "A. N. User via This Mailing List" 
> 
> and Reply-To (normally hidden by most mail clients) to
> 
> Reply-To: "A. N. User" ,
>   some-l...@example.net
> 
> (where the reply-to some-list is optional, depending on whether
> reply_to_list is set in the list configuration).  This is a compromise
> that avoids triggering bounces from recipients and allows somewhat
> convenient reply-to-author.
> 
> If you have set personalization to "full" or configured an "anonymous
> list", then From is set to the list.  But this is rarely desirable
> behavior unless you want to conceal the author's identity, or it's an
> announcement list where the list is the author in some sense, and the
> identity of the human "secretary" who composed the message is
> unimportant.  If you want help configuring your list(s) to show the
> original poster, we can provide that.
> 
> Much as I hate to say it, if your users need this kind of feature, you
> should consider migrating to a web forum instead of a mailing list.
> Web forums are much more helpful in this way.  Mailing lists, and
> their developers, are biased to allowing (and requiring) their users
> to take care of these things themselves.
> 
> Steve
> 
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
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> Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
> 
>
> 

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Add "sender's name/email" to BODY of mail as header?

[Robert Heller]

At Sat, 13 Feb 2021 15:53:35 + Sam Kuper  wrote:

> 
> Content-Type: text/plain
> 
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 11:00:20PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > Alex Bellig writes:
> >  > I am interested in this option as well. Here is a scenario:
> >  > When people send a message to the group and don't sign their name,
> >  > I want their name to be picked from the membership list and
> >  > mentioned at the top of the body as From: 
> >  > It will follow with their message in the body of the email.
> > 
> > This is not possible to do reliably in email due to the control of the
> > relevant information by email authors.
> 
> Just wondering... I can see that the above would be true in the case of
> lists that allow anybody to post.  But is it true even in the case of
> lists that can only be posted to by subscribers?
> 
> (Well, I guess that Subscriber A could spoof their message as being from
> Subscriber B.  But barring pathological cases like that, presumably
> Mailman can match the sender's email address against the subscriber list
> and find the value of the corresponding name field.)

Assumes that the corresponding name field is not empty...

> 
> Sam
> 

-- 
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Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services
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hel...@deepsoft.com   -- Webhosting Services
   
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Add "sender's name/email" to BODY of mail as header?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Sam Kuper writes:
 > On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 11:00:20PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
 > > Alex Bellig writes:

 > > This is not possible to do reliably in email due to the control of the
 > > relevant information by email authors.
 > 
 > Just wondering... I can see that the above would be true in the case of
 > lists that allow anybody to post.  But is it true even in the case of
 > lists that can only be posted to by subscribers?
 > 
 > (Well, I guess that Subscriber A could spoof their message as being from
 > Subscriber B.  But barring pathological cases like that,

Or subscriber B could lend their phone to subscriber A to write a
quick reply.

 > presumably Mailman can match the sender's email address against the
 > subscriber list and find the value of the corresponding name
 > field.)

If somebody writes the code and installs it, yes.  Most of the code is
already there, somewhere, it's just that it's only used for messages
from Mailman to the subscriber.  This requires not just coding skills,
but also access (usually root) on the server.

Steve
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Add "sender's name/email" to BODY of mail as header?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Robert Heller writes:

 > Actually, *some* mail clients don't display all of the From header,
 > specificly some smart phone clients only display the e-mail address
 > and not the comment

HEADDESK HEADDESK HEADDESK

"Smart" phone is such a misnomer.
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[Mailman-Users] Re: OpenPGP and S/MIME aware Mailman

[Sam Kuper]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 10:11:20AM -0500, Dennis Putnam wrote:
> If I need a secure mailman list, is there another alternative?

You may want to give some thought to, and to then specify in a follow-up
in this thread, what you mean by "secure" in this context.

For example, you might want security properties such as:

- Every message sent to the list can be authenticated by its recipients.

- Every message sent to the list is robustly encrypted to prevent its
  being readable by non-members.

- For the property/ies above to be immune to rogue CAs.

- Some combination of the above.

It may be helpful to ask yourself: what is your threat model?

Also, which key distribution mechanisms are available to you?  (For
instance: are the list members able to meet in person for key exchange?)

-- 
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Q: When is top-posting a bad thing?

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/\  file formats. (Why? See e.g. https://v.gd/jrmGbS ). Thank you.
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Adding sender's name to the message body automatically

[Mark Sapiro]

On 2/11/21 4:36 PM, Alex Bellig wrote:
> Usually users forget to sign their name at the bottom of their mail body, I 
> would like to force their name to be added at the top of the body as From: 
>  which will be fetched from the membership list.
> 
> So, is there a way to add the sender's name (and/or email address) to the top 
> of each mail so that the mails have the name of the sender? which template of 
> file we need to add that variable, if any?


See the replies in the thread at



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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Add "sender's name/email" to BODY of mail as header?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 2/11/21 4:25 PM, Alex Bellig wrote:
> I am interested in this option as well. Here is a scenario:
> When people send a message to the group and don't sign their name, I want 
> their name to be picked from the membership list and mentioned at the top of 
> the body as From: 
> It will follow with their message in the body of the email.
> 
> So is there a variable that displays the name of the person and which 
> template can we add it to.


It is not clear whether this is a Mailman 2.1 or Mailman 3 question, but
the answer is essentially the same. If it is a Mailman 3 question, it
should have been sent to mailman-us...@mailman3.org


In either MM 2.1 or MM 3 there are ways to add headers and footers to
messages. In MM 2.1 these are the msg_header and msg_footer list
attributes and in MM 3 they are the list:member:regular:header and
list:member:regular:footer templates. However, neither MM 2.1 nor MM 3
has replacements for the sender of the message. Adding them would
require modifying the code.

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Add "sender's name/email" to BODY of mail as header?

[Robert Heller]

At Sat, 13 Feb 2021 23:00:20 +0900 "Stephen J. Turnbull" 
 wrote:

> 
> Content-Type: text/plain
> 
> Alex Bellig writes:
>  > I am interested in this option as well. Here is a scenario:
>  > When people send a message to the group and don't sign their name,
>  > I want their name to be picked from the membership list and
>  > mentioned at the top of the body as From: 
>  > It will follow with their message in the body of the email.
> 
> This is not possible to do reliably in email due to the control of the
> relevant information by email authors.  If it's merely an issue of
> authors forgetting, then it could be done, but Mailman provides no
> such feature.
> 
>  > So is there a variable that displays the name of the person and
>  > which template can we add it to.
> 
> No.  Personalization is designed for the benefit of the *recipient*.
> So the variables that are available are the recipient's: their email
> address, their personal options page, the archive URL, and the like.
> 
> A variable identifying the sender should be unnecessary with a
> typically configured list.  Normally, the person's name and email
> address are available as "From" in the email header.  All mail clients
> display this header field by default.  If they are at one of the

Actually, *some* mail clients don't display all of the From header, specificly
some smart phone clients only display the e-mail address and not the comment
-- I believe this is due to limited screen space. Often e-mail address can be
cryptic or otherwise uninformative. Oh, and with DMARC From munging, the
e-mail address on the from header will be the the list and not the original
sender. 

> (obnoxious) commercial services that have restrictive DMARC policies,
> >From can be set to something like
> 
> From: "A. N. User via This Mailing List" 
> 
> and Reply-To (normally hidden by most mail clients) to
> 
> Reply-To: "A. N. User" ,
>   some-l...@example.net
> 
> (where the reply-to some-list is optional, depending on whether
> reply_to_list is set in the list configuration).  This is a compromise
> that avoids triggering bounces from recipients and allows somewhat
> convenient reply-to-author.
> 
> If you have set personalization to "full" or configured an "anonymous
> list", then From is set to the list.  But this is rarely desirable
> behavior unless you want to conceal the author's identity, or it's an
> announcement list where the list is the author in some sense, and the
> identity of the human "secretary" who composed the message is
> unimportant.  If you want help configuring your list(s) to show the
> original poster, we can provide that.
> 
> Much as I hate to say it, if your users need this kind of feature, you
> should consider migrating to a web forum instead of a mailing list.
> Web forums are much more helpful in this way.  Mailing lists, and
> their developers, are biased to allowing (and requiring) their users
> to take care of these things themselves.
> 
> Steve
> 
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
> 
>
> 

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[Mailman-Users] Link request

[Alex]

How can I display my mailing list on a browser, similar to the following:
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/

Thanks,
Alex
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Link request

[Mark Sapiro]

On 2/13/21 8:44 PM, Alex wrote:
> How can I display my mailing list on a browser, similar to the following:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/


Is your Mailing list a Mailman 2.1 list? While this list is ABOUT
Mailman 2.1, the list is a Mailman 3 list and thelink above is to its
Mailman 3 info page.

The corresponding thing for a Mailman 2.1 list is a url like this one
for the Mailman 2.1 python-help list


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[Mailman-Users] Subject field not included in wrapper of DMARC emails

[Sam Kuper]

Dear Mailman folk,

I am subscribed to an OpenWRT mailing list, which (according to the
X-Mailman-Verson header in emails I receive from the list) uses Mailman
2.1.29.

Most of the mail on that list comes through just fine.

DMARC email comes through with the Subject: field blank, though.

Is that expected?  https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC does not appear to
mention the Subject: header being left out of the wrapper, when Mailman
wraps a message to satisfy DMARC.  This means that in my MUA, those
messages are displayed without a Subject.

An example of an affected email is shown below, including the full
headers.

Is there a Mailman 2 setting that I could recommend to the OpenWRT list
managers, that would make Mailman copy the Subject: header from the
original message to the wrapper, so that my MUA would show the subject
as intended by the sender?

Thank you in advance for your help,

Sam


- Forwarded message from "Etan Kissling (IC) via openwrt-devel" -

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