Re: [Mailman-Users] The last release from the GNU Mailman project

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > I'd say it depend on the details of how serious the vulnerability is,
 > how easy it is to exploit and how hard it is to fix. I am not opposed to
 > Mailman 2.1.30-x security fix releases.

Mark speaks for me, although it's been a long time since I've worked
on Mailman 2, and never on the release process itself. (A short pause
for M-x all-hail-mark.)  I'm happy to help where I have competence on
anything Mark deems necessary, and possibly stuff he doesn't think
rise to the level of justifying a release.

Steve
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The last release from the GNU Mailman project (was: Handling Munged From Addresses)

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:

 > Interestingly enough, here's a roadmap on exactly how to do it:  :)

Jim, you're not helping.  Until there are "I'll do it" hands up, no
port to Python 3 that is faithful to current Mailman 2 is viable.
Pushing it just serves to annoy those who are currently doing work for
Mailman that they care more about.

By contrast, your question about security fixes was an entirely
appropriate clarification, and #ThankYouForPersisting on that
subthread.

Steve

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[Mailman-Users] MM3 filter content

[Eduardo Costa via Mailman-Users]

Hello,

How do I manage to activate and define the content filters in order to 
remove attachments at MM3?


Best Regards

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..



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Re: [Mailman-Users] The last release from the GNU Mailman project (was: Handling Munged From Addresses)

[Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users]

On Mon, 2020-03-02 at 17:17 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users writes:
> 
>  > Interestingly enough, here's a roadmap on exactly how to do it:  :)
> 
> Jim, you're not helping.  

Stephen, thank you for taking the time to respond.  Although I would
have preferred you respond to the questions that I asked, I believe I
can now see why you don't want to.  Your "Dave Matthews" subthread sent
me down a youtube rabbit's hole of Barry's videos and links. TBH, I can
see why bringing those to the surface aren't favorable. Barry's roadmap
for Python2 -> Python3 seems to counter the narrative that MM2 is ill-
advised to be ported to Python3 (btw, that was posted in Jan of this
year).

> Until there are "I'll do it" hands up, no
> port to Python 3 that is faithful to current Mailman 2 is viable.

That is a piece of a much bigger puzzle.  How are we to attract interest
in coding for MM2 when (omg wow) for the past 10+ years key people have
been drumming a beat that MM2 is dead.

> Pushing it just serves to annoy those who are currently doing work for
> Mailman that they care more about.

I get that, but others may care more about MM2, you yourself have even
somewhat begrudgingly acknowledged this.

> By contrast, your question about security fixes was an entirely
> appropriate clarification, and #ThankYouForPersisting on that
> subthread.

#Mailman3MightBeTheNewNewCoke :-)

-Jim P.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] MM3 filter content

[Mark Sapiro]

On 3/2/20 12:35 AM, Eduardo Costa via Mailman-Users wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> How do I manage to activate and define the content filters in order to
> remove attachments at MM3?


The list for questions about Mailman 3 is mailman-us...@mailman3.org
.

That said, the MM 3 settings Filter content, Collapse alternatives and
Convert html to plaintext are exposed in Postorius -> Settings -> Alter
messages.

The other settings: filter_action, filter_extensions, filter_types,
pass_extensions and pass_types are not currently exposed in Postorius.
 They can be set via mailman shell.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] The last release from the GNU Mailman project (was: Handling Munged From Addresses)

[Mark Sapiro]

On 3/2/20 8:56 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:

> Barry's roadmap
> for Python2 -> Python3 seems to counter the narrative that MM2 is ill-
> advised to be ported to Python3 (btw, that was posted in Jan of this
> year).


The question is what do people want when they say they want Mailman 2
ported to Python 3.

If it means, porting to Python 3 and fixing a few things on the way such
as adding a real backend database, a concept of "user" and a REST API,
it's at least partially done. It's Mailman 3 core.

If it means cloning the MM 2.1 web UI and pipermail archiver, that is
almost certainly not worth the effort.

A compromise is exactly what Brian proposes. Mailman 3 with a new web
UI, light weight, not based on Django and easy to install. Mailman 3 was
explicitly designed to be separate from a web management UI and Archiver
and to allow different implementations of those to integrate easily with
core.

Postorius and HyperKitty are part of Mailman 3 because we needed
something and that is what people were willing to commit to do. We
always hoped there would be alternatives, and it seems that now Brian is
working on one. There's room for more.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] The last release from the GNU Mailman project (was: Handling Munged From Addresses)

[Dave Stevens]

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 10:53:19 -0500
Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users  wrote:

> but I have vague recollections that both Barry and Mark have 
> > said repeatedly that doing so would be substantially  anything built on the 
> > MM2
> > architecture.  

assuming that's so I think the "anything built on the MM2
architecture" is perhaps misconceived. I don't need to be told that
MM2 is awkward to set up and run but millions of people get and send
mail that way every day and it mostly "just works." This very large
body of users it what matters most to actually getting work done, not
the developers' wishes and preferences - "more effort than they are
willing to put into...". I think increasingly as time goes by that the
new New Coke analogy is a good fit.

D
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Re: [Mailman-Users] The last release from the GNU Mailman project (was: Handling Munged From Addresses)

[Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users]

On Mon, 2020-03-02 at 10:54 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 3/2/20 8:56 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> 
> > Barry's roadmap
> > for Python2 -> Python3 seems to counter the narrative that MM2 is ill-
> > advised to be ported to Python3 (btw, that was posted in Jan of this
> > year).
> 
> The question is what do people want when they say they want Mailman 2
> ported to Python 3.

I believe they want Mailman 2, as it is today, but with a fully
supported language that it depends on.  Lets be clear, the upgrade from
MM2 to MM3 is not the same as a traditional upgrade path, MM3 is a whole
new application.  It's an application upgrade the same way the Space
Shuttle was an upgrade from the Apollo capsules.  Different designs,
whole new concepts, years of pie-in-the-sky and dry marker dust.  While
that is important to some, it may not matter to others (and I think that
is the situation today).  I really want to know who all the "we need a
REST interface now!" people are.

I'm reminded of that great diagram from years past about "what the
customer wanted", "what the developer envisioned", "what the tester
tested", etc.  It's a great reminder of how quagmires are created.

> If it means, porting to Python 3 and fixing a few things on the way such
> as adding a real backend database, a concept of "user" and a REST API,
> it's at least partially done. It's Mailman 3 core.
> 
> If it means cloning the MM 2.1 web UI and pipermail archiver, that is
> almost certainly not worth the effort.

There are plenty of people who are still happy with pipermail and some
of the other search options (Google, htdig, etc)  What benefit does a
REST api provide to church groups, and tech lists like nanog or mailop? 

BTW, I've run some technical discussion lists for 2 decades now, I can
recall the number of times someone has said "we need an archive search
feature" on 1 hand.
 
> A compromise is exactly what Brian proposes. Mailman 3 with a new web
> UI, light weight, not based on Django and easy to install. Mailman 3 was
> explicitly designed to be separate from a web management UI and Archiver
> and to allow different implementations of those to integrate easily with
> core.

While I applaud Brian's efforts, I'm not convinced that I would run PHP
on a public facing portal, even in 2020.  But that's just me, others may
feel differently.

> Postorius and HyperKitty are part of Mailman 3 because we needed
> something and that is what people were willing to commit to do. We
> always hoped there would be alternatives, and it seems that now Brian is
> working on one. There's room for more.

-Jim P.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] The last release from the GNU Mailman project

[Brian Carpenter]

On 3/2/20 4:55 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:

While I applaud Brian's efforts, I'm not convinced that I would run PHP
on a public facing portal, even in 2020.  But that's just me, others may
feel differently.


And so it begins.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] The last release from the GNU Mailman project (was: Handling Munged From Addresses)

[Mark Sapiro]

On 3/2/20 1:55 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
> 
> There are plenty of people who are still happy with pipermail and some
> of the other search options (Google, htdig, etc)  What benefit does a
> REST api provide to church groups, and tech lists like nanog or mailop? 


It provides a stable, documented management interface so people can
create their own web UIs to control Mailman 3 in whatever way they want.
Granted your end user's aren't going to do this, but the people who want
it can, and more easily than by porting Mailman 2.1 to Python 3.

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