Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?
Am 25.11.19 um 07:15 schrieb Stephen J. Turnbull: [...] > The obvious "turn-key" installation is to use the Docker containers, > which Abhilash keeps fairly up-to-date. But see comment below about > universal working solutions. [...] Great suggestion. Is it easy to integrate it with the system's MTA or does it come with its own MTA? The obvious big showstopper is that there is no supported upgrade path from Mailman 2.* yet, according to http://www.mailman3.org/en/latest/pre-installation-guide.html#how-can-i-upgrade-from-mailman-2-1-x and so you certainly don't want to try to upgrade production instances of mailman without it. Cheers, Johannes -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 at 05:04, Johannes Rohr wrote: > The obvious big showstopper is that there is no supported upgrade path > from Mailman 2.* yet, according to > > http://www.mailman3.org/en/latest/pre-installation-guide.html#how-can-i-upgrade-from-mailman-2-1-x > and so you certainly don't want to try to upgrade production instances > of mailman without it. > Is there a timeline for that? Mailman 2.x requires python 2.x, which is EOL in about 40 days. It would have been nice to have a supported upgrade path six months ago. Can we count on one... say... in the next month? I'm not going to be able to do a production upgrade between now and the start of the holidays change freeze anyway, but it would be nice if we could plan on something for January. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?
On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 10:17 -0500, Matthew Pounsett wrote: > Is there a timeline for that? Mailman 2.x requires python 2.x, which is > EOL in about 40 days. I keep saying this a lot... the EOL you are referring to is Python's declared date that the Python team will no longer maintain Python2. HOWEVER, Redhat, Debian, etc., *will* still be maintaining Python2 throughout the lifecycles of their releases that contain Python2. So, for Debian 10 (Buster) that is well past 2022 (which is the LTS end-data for Debian 9). Stop being scared by the Python team's misleading messaging. -Jim P. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?
Am Mo., 25. Nov. 2019 um 16:47 Uhr schrieb Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users < mailman-users@python.org>: > On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 10:17 -0500, Matthew Pounsett wrote: > > Is there a timeline for that? Mailman 2.x requires python 2.x, which is > > EOL in about 40 days. > > I keep saying this a lot... the EOL you are referring to is Python's > declared date that the Python team will no longer maintain Python2. > HOWEVER, Redhat, Debian, etc., *will* still be maintaining Python2 > throughout the lifecycles of their releases that contain Python2. So, > for Debian 10 (Buster) that is well past 2022 (which is the LTS end-data > for Debian 9). > Python2 is being removed from Debian's next release, Bullseye, though. This already has caused turmoil for the Calibre package and I suppose that they will have to remove mailman 2 also so that it is not going to be in the bullseye release. > > Stop being scared by the Python team's misleading messaging. > > -Jim P. > > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jorohr%40gmail.com > -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?
On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 16:59 +0100, Johannes Rohr wrote: > > Am Mo., 25. Nov. 2019 um 16:47 Uhr schrieb Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users > : > > On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 10:17 -0500, Matthew Pounsett wrote: > > > Is there a timeline for that? Mailman 2.x requires python 2.x, which is > > > EOL in about 40 days. > > > > I keep saying this a lot... the EOL you are referring to is Python's > > declared date that the Python team will no longer maintain Python2. > > HOWEVER, Redhat, Debian, etc., *will* still be maintaining Python2 > > throughout the lifecycles of their releases that contain Python2. So, > > for Debian 10 (Buster) that is well past 2022 (which is the LTS end-data > > for Debian 9). > > Python2 is being removed from Debian's next release, Bullseye, though. This > already has caused turmoil for the Calibre package and I suppose that they > will have to remove mailman 2 also so that it is not going to be in the > bullseye release. Correct, so LTS End-date for Buster (which will be sometime in 2024?) will be the last of Python2 for Debian. If you are migrating to Bullseye, then it makes sense to plan for an application (e.g. Mailman) migration too. BUT if you are not using bleeding edge OSes, you don't need to heed the Python fear mongering. -Jim P. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?
On 11/25/19 7:17 AM, Matthew Pounsett wrote: > On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 at 05:04, Johannes Rohr wrote: > >> The obvious big showstopper is that there is no supported upgrade path >> from Mailman 2.* yet, according to >> >> http://www.mailman3.org/en/latest/pre-installation-guide.html#how-can-i-upgrade-from-mailman-2-1-x >> and so you certainly don't want to try to upgrade production instances >> of mailman without it. >> > > Is there a timeline for that? Actually, that doc is out of date. The 'mailman import21' command for importing a list from a Mailman 2.1 config.pck currently works quite well. We've used it to migrate several lists on python.org and it works well (and bugs when found get fixed). The biggest issue is anomalies in the archive .mbox files that affect the hyperkitty_import process. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 11:06 -0500, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 16:59 +0100, Johannes Rohr wrote: > > Am Mo., 25. Nov. 2019 um 16:47 Uhr schrieb Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users > > : > > > On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 10:17 -0500, Matthew Pounsett wrote: > > > > Is there a timeline for that? Mailman 2.x requires python 2.x, which is > > > > EOL in about 40 days. > > > > > > I keep saying this a lot... the EOL you are referring to is Python's > > > declared date that the Python team will no longer maintain Python2. > > > HOWEVER, Redhat, Debian, etc., *will* still be maintaining Python2 > > > throughout the lifecycles of their releases that contain Python2. So, > > > for Debian 10 (Buster) that is well past 2022 (which is the LTS end-data > > > for Debian 9). > > > > Python2 is being removed from Debian's next release, Bullseye, though. This > > already has caused turmoil for the Calibre package and I suppose that they > > will have to remove mailman 2 also so that it is not going to be in the > > bullseye release. > > Correct, so LTS End-date for Buster (which will be sometime in 2024?) > will be the last of Python2 for Debian. > > If you are migrating to Bullseye, then it makes sense to plan for an > application (e.g. Mailman) migration too. BUT if you are not using > bleeding edge OSes, you don't need to heed the Python fear mongering. Since I'm working on PPAs some today, an additional bullet-point to the above is that Ubuntu Bionic (which includes Python 2.7) has an EOL of April 2028. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases Sure, it would be great if everyone migrated to MM3 (and MM3 fit inside the requirements of everyone using it..) ASAP, but just like with the Linux Kernel there is no magic solution to have everyone on Kernel 5.x this week... so guess what, kernel 3x still gets security patches from distributors. - -Jim P. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE3RmV4WutJ2KyCS2zPcxbabkKGJ8FAl3cIbQACgkQPcxbabkK GJ8C6hAApwN2XGzId6EgR8tWponW5g++4fQvYYS7XmDLIQv3aTOEasVCz1aElp1+ oEw9BYYcjIvsNAROrs/H1meg0zfMcmCzNBXJ1/zFTUdLTF/bZ7fOutOexhXrmd3w V/gOrL8OsiR+BOCKxiFCKH6D9sudbAIgw7cWFUxhcK0b7jEnGSrU/NIhf75xRtOE tzp01jS3a9ormxMZyniDV4C8QDbWIySBjrbKrM8S3tVTu8mbz7C+gIQKZzWXiJ7s jolEjRKExZ7OF1AM9nRCexIkvNzcdO+E83OheCnDjPyt70NxIdQxXmqYpxTr6YNZ MX6jQ3VuYTnMiNWHUvg8xECl6qDj7RU9zNdd9Citsj8QoWQs2Lvi500YjY1IiVSO ncmFwRPKBXuR4tv5z2bIcXvru7Fe8tSlZlOyLhL1chqRKQqhvazkJmNgnEgKs8ga 9Ha433BHYikXpGOX8+mR6//gREygbQFZInHgWOv5QWeAnY01H80HBwK7Y1vmKAUy kqMDoVAH7sO30xK0WdRsKaUktkr8bWES3MQJmb2fwKcH8l8hkh69RLKzxvj8zZi0 8NyN+812ujUuuYtgNfZQf+MLggElrqe19b7pViBuRwwuVcxG9GteUWk/lQxC+nl1 yE4LiZN/q2UE2M2FASZUihLPXZb7OWdzi7Imjf2bRruF0n45bcw= =Lsiw -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?
At Mon, 25 Nov 2019 13:47:16 -0500 Jim Popovitch wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 11:06 -0500, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users > wrote: > > On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 16:59 +0100, Johannes Rohr wrote: > > > Am Mo., 25. Nov. 2019 um 16:47 Uhr schrieb Jim Popovitch via > > > Mailman-Users : > > > > On Mon, 2019-11-25 at 10:17 -0500, Matthew Pounsett wrote: > > > > > Is there a timeline for that? Mailman 2.x requires python 2.x, which > > > > > is > > > > > EOL in about 40 days. > > > > > > > > I keep saying this a lot... the EOL you are referring to is Python's > > > > declared date that the Python team will no longer maintain Python2. > > > > HOWEVER, Redhat, Debian, etc., *will* still be maintaining Python2 > > > > throughout the lifecycles of their releases that contain Python2. So, > > > > for Debian 10 (Buster) that is well past 2022 (which is the LTS > > > > end-data > > > > for Debian 9). > > > > > > Python2 is being removed from Debian's next release, Bullseye, though. > > > This already has caused turmoil for the Calibre package and I suppose > > > that they will have to remove mailman 2 also so that it is not going to > > > be in the bullseye release. > > > > Correct, so LTS End-date for Buster (which will be sometime in 2024?) > > will be the last of Python2 for Debian. > > > > If you are migrating to Bullseye, then it makes sense to plan for an > > application (e.g. Mailman) migration too. BUT if you are not using > > bleeding edge OSes, you don't need to heed the Python fear mongering. > > Since I'm working on PPAs some today, an additional bullet-point to the > above is that Ubuntu Bionic (which includes Python 2.7) has an EOL of > April 2028. > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases > > Sure, it would be great if everyone migrated to MM3 (and MM3 fit inside > the requirements of everyone using it..) ASAP, but just like with the > Linux Kernel there is no magic solution to have everyone on Kernel 5.x > this week... so guess what, kernel 3x still gets security patches from > distributors. And RedHat is still supporting Kernel 2x for RHEL 6... > > - -Jim P. > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > > iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE3RmV4WutJ2KyCS2zPcxbabkKGJ8FAl3cIbQACgkQPcxbabkK > GJ8C6hAApwN2XGzId6EgR8tWponW5g++4fQvYYS7XmDLIQv3aTOEasVCz1aElp1+ > oEw9BYYcjIvsNAROrs/H1meg0zfMcmCzNBXJ1/zFTUdLTF/bZ7fOutOexhXrmd3w > V/gOrL8OsiR+BOCKxiFCKH6D9sudbAIgw7cWFUxhcK0b7jEnGSrU/NIhf75xRtOE > tzp01jS3a9ormxMZyniDV4C8QDbWIySBjrbKrM8S3tVTu8mbz7C+gIQKZzWXiJ7s > jolEjRKExZ7OF1AM9nRCexIkvNzcdO+E83OheCnDjPyt70NxIdQxXmqYpxTr6YNZ > MX6jQ3VuYTnMiNWHUvg8xECl6qDj7RU9zNdd9Citsj8QoWQs2Lvi500YjY1IiVSO > ncmFwRPKBXuR4tv5z2bIcXvru7Fe8tSlZlOyLhL1chqRKQqhvazkJmNgnEgKs8ga > 9Ha433BHYikXpGOX8+mR6//gREygbQFZInHgWOv5QWeAnY01H80HBwK7Y1vmKAUy > kqMDoVAH7sO30xK0WdRsKaUktkr8bWES3MQJmb2fwKcH8l8hkh69RLKzxvj8zZi0 > 8NyN+812ujUuuYtgNfZQf+MLggElrqe19b7pViBuRwwuVcxG9GteUWk/lQxC+nl1 > yE4LiZN/q2UE2M2FASZUihLPXZb7OWdzi7Imjf2bRruF0n45bcw= > =Lsiw > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/heller%40deepsoft.com > > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services hel...@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
