[Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 confusion

2017-06-18 Thread tlhackque via Mailman-Users 
I took another look at installing Mailman 3, and ended up lost and
confused.  I'm an experienced software person - but my Python knowledge
is minimal.

Fedora 25, python 3.5.3, pretty much out of the box.

Mailman version: 3.1.0 (The other bits and pieces are current - 1.1)

I tried to follow the documentation on
http://docs.list.org/en/latest/prodsetup.html,

http://mailman-3-installation.readthedocs.io/en/latest/production_install.html
claims that the backend requires Python 3.4, but the frontend 2.7.  Not
clear if this is credible, but it's out there...

https://wiki.list.org/Mailman3 points to Mark Sapiro's experience on
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%203%20installation%20experience  This
starts off with "For both installs I started with mailman-bundler."  
But https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-bundler says "All of this
documentation is obsolete!  Mailman Bundler is no longer recommended or
supported. "  So...

I have yet to find a step-by-step 'bare OS to running MM3" document. 
I've run MM2.1 lists for years, it wasn't this hard to get started. 
Just install and edit one config file (plus the webserver.).  I don't
want to learn a zillion other technologies just to get started - e.g.

But, I decided to see how far I could get.  I tried this, based on pip
search mailman:

dnf install python3 python3-devel (gets 3.5.3)
pip3 install mailman postorius mailmanclient HyperKitty
mailman-hyperkitty KittyStore

All went well until KittyStore, which (0.9.3 is what pip found) died with:
Collecting storm (from KittyStore)
  Downloading storm-0.20.tar.bz2 (213kB)
100% || 215kB 318kB/s
Complete output from command python setup.py egg_info:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File "/tmp/pip-build-wzs03r_4/storm/setup.py", line 5, in 
import ez_setup
  File "/tmp/pip-build-wzs03r_4/storm/ez_setup.py", line 106
except pkg_resources.VersionConflict, e:
^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Well, set that aside, and install the rest, which seems to work.

Try again with KittyStore, same failure.  So maybe skip the archive for now.

Try 'mailman info', another syntax error.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/xmlconfig.py", line
272, in endElementNS
self.context.end()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
line 345, in end
self.stack.pop().finish()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
line 452, in finish
args = toargs(context, *self.argdata)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
line 794, in toargs
args[str(name)] = field.fromUnicode(s)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/fields.py",
line 73, in fromUnicode
value = self.context.resolve(name)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
line 151, in resolve
mod = __import__(mname, *_import_chickens)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/database/factory.py",
line 22, in 
import alembic.command
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/command.py", line 3, in

from .script import ScriptDirectory
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/script/__init__.py",
line 1, in 
from .base import ScriptDirectory, Script  # noqa
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/script/base.py", line
2, in 
from dateutil import tz
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/dateutil/tz.py", line 78
`self._name`,
^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/mailman", line 9, in 
load_entry_point('mailman==3.1.0', 'console_scripts', 'mailman')()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/bin/mailman.py", line
97, in main
initialize(config_path)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/core/initialize.py",
line 184, in initialize
initialize_1(config_path)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/core/initialize.py",
line 101, in initialize_1
xmlconfig.string(zcml.decode('utf-8'))
  File
"/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/xmlconfig.py", line
513, in string
processxmlfile(f, context)
  File
"/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/xmlconfig.py", line
295, in processxmlfile
parser.parse(src)
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.5/xml/sax/expatreader.py", line 110, in parse
xmlreader.IncrementalParser.parse(self, source)
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.5/xml/sax/xmlreader.py", line 125, in parse
self.feed(buffer)
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.5/xml/sax/expatreader.py", line 210, in feed
self._parser.Parse(data, isFinal)
  File "/builddir/build/BUILD/Python-3.5.3/Modules/pyexpat.c", line 468,
in EndElement
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.5/xml/sax/expatreader.py", line 370, in
end_element_ns
self._cont_ha

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 confusion

2017-06-18 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 06/17/2017 02:14 PM, tlhackque via Mailman-Users wrote:
> I took another look at installing Mailman 3, and ended up lost and
> confused.  I'm an experienced software person - but my Python knowledge
> is minimal.
> 
> Fedora 25, python 3.5.3, pretty much out of the box.
> 
> Mailman version: 3.1.0 (The other bits and pieces are current - 1.1)


A better list for Mailman 3 discussions is mailman-us...@mailman3.org



> I tried to follow the documentation on
> http://docs.list.org/en/latest/prodsetup.html,
> 
> http://mailman-3-installation.readthedocs.io/en/latest/production_install.html
> claims that the backend requires Python 3.4, but the frontend 2.7.  Not
> clear if this is credible, but it's out there...


At the moment it actually says "The backend requires Python 3.4 or newer
while the frontend requires Python 2.7"

What that means is the Mailman core (mailman) and and the Mailman -
HyperKitty plugin (mailman-hyperkitty) require Python 3 (3.4, 3.5 and
3.6 are supported).

Postorius (postorius), HyperKitty (mailman-hyperkitty) and therefore the
supporting project modules they import, mailmanclient and
django-mailman3 all require Python 2.7.


> https://wiki.list.org/Mailman3 points to Mark Sapiro's experience on
> https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%203%20installation%20experience  This
> starts off with "For both installs I started with mailman-bundler."  
> But https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-bundler says "All of this
> documentation is obsolete!  Mailman Bundler is no longer recommended or
> supported. "  So...


Yes. I intend to update that. In the mean time I added a note.


> I have yet to find a step-by-step 'bare OS to running MM3" document. 


Have you seen 


> I've run MM2.1 lists for years, it wasn't this hard to get started. 
> Just install and edit one config file (plus the webserver.).  I don't
> want to learn a zillion other technologies just to get started - e.g.
> 
> But, I decided to see how far I could get.  I tried this, based on pip
> search mailman:
> 
> dnf install python3 python3-devel (gets 3.5.3)
> pip3 install mailman postorius mailmanclient HyperKitty
> mailman-hyperkitty KittyStore
> 
> All went well until KittyStore, which (0.9.3 is what pip found) died with:
> Collecting storm (from KittyStore)
>   Downloading storm-0.20.tar.bz2 (213kB)
> 100% || 215kB 318kB/s
> Complete output from command python setup.py egg_info:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
>   File "/tmp/pip-build-wzs03r_4/storm/setup.py", line 5, in 
> import ez_setup
>   File "/tmp/pip-build-wzs03r_4/storm/ez_setup.py", line 106
> except pkg_resources.VersionConflict, e:
> ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax


KittyStore is obsolete and not required.

You also need django-mailman3.


> Well, set that aside, and install the rest, which seems to work.
> 
> Try again with KittyStore, same failure.  So maybe skip the archive for now.
> 
> Try 'mailman info', another syntax error.
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/xmlconfig.py", line
> 272, in endElementNS
> self.context.end()
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
> line 345, in end
> self.stack.pop().finish()
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
> line 452, in finish
> args = toargs(context, *self.argdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
> line 794, in toargs
> args[str(name)] = field.fromUnicode(s)
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/fields.py",
> line 73, in fromUnicode
> value = self.context.resolve(name)
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/zope/configuration/config.py",
> line 151, in resolve
> mod = __import__(mname, *_import_chickens)
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/database/factory.py",
> line 22, in 
> import alembic.command
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/command.py", line 3, in
> 
> from .script import ScriptDirectory
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/script/__init__.py",
> line 1, in 
> from .base import ScriptDirectory, Script  # noqa
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/script/base.py", line
> 2, in 
> from dateutil import tz
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages/dateutil/tz.py", line 78
> `self._name`,
> ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax


This looks like you have somehow installed the Python 2.7
python_dateutil package in your python 3 library.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailma

Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 confusion

2017-06-18 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 06/18/2017 10:58 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 06/17/2017 02:14 PM, tlhackque via Mailman-Users wrote:
> 
>> I have yet to find a step-by-step 'bare OS to running MM3" document. 
> 
> 
> Have you seen 


Yes, obviously you referenced that earlier :(

And yes, it is not (yet) the step by step you're looking for. We are
working on that and also on getting some packaged solutions that are
much easier to install, but we're not there yet.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with "Reply-to:"

2017-06-18 Thread Frank Elsner 
On Fri, 16 Jun 2017 08:47:41 +0200 Frank Elsner wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 20:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Robert Heller wrote:
> 
>   [ ... ]
> 
> The outgoing MTA has no special handling for "Reply-To:" and I've looked at 
> the
> spool file, it has no "Reply-To:" :-(
> 
> > > You could look at your Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py in the section
> > > that begins with the comment
> > > 
> > > # Reply-To: munging. ...
> > > 
> > > to see it it looks correct. In particular, this
> > > 
> > > # List admin wants an explicit Reply-To: added
> > > if mlist.reply_goes_to_list == 2:
> > > add(parseaddr(mlist.reply_to_address))
> > > 
> > > is what puts reply_to_address in the Reply-To: header in the outgoing
> > > message.
> 
> I'll do this, definitly.

Oh wonder, I found exactly this code snippet :-(


Kind regards, Frank Elsner
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