Re: Disallow or discourage use of "AI" tools
On Monday 12 May 2025 18:06:13 Eastern European Summer Time Christoph Cullmann wrote: > Hi, > > On Monday, May 12th, 2025 at 16:19, Harald Sitter wrote: > > It being generated by AI is not the same as it being low quality > > though? Are we against low quality or against AI? > > I think there is a big difference between just low quality and AI. > > Naturally high quality contributions are nice, but if somebody puts in time > to contribute and just the quality is lacking, I am willing to help. > There is effort spent on both sides. > > With AI, there is no effort spend on the other side, just some wasted energy > consumption. With such contributions you can DoS any organization. > > Greetings > Christoph > Pretty much what you said. And sure, there's no obvious ways to deduct if someone is using AI to generate their things or not. What I want though is have a rule to point at the obvious ones: "Stop wasting our time or go away." I know there's no perfect solution nor we can't really block them. But having something is better than nothing. I hope we could follow what other projects are doing, like the one I linked. - Aks > > On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 4:11 PM Akseli akse...@akselmo.dev wrote: > > > On 12 May 2025 16.40.44 EEST, Harald Sitter sit...@kde.org wrote: > > > > I mean, I guess. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not exactly sure what a sign somewhere will help. People can just > > > > ignore it, after all, they ignored the code of conduct (be > > > > considerate) as well as the seemingly obvious courtesy of not wasting > > > > other people's time... may as well ignore the sign. At the same time > > > > routing all input through anti-AI AIs is probably not a useful > > > > expenditure of time either. 🤷 > > > > > > Maybe it wont help, but at least we have a sign to tap on. "This was > > > obviously generated with AI, we dont allow that, bla bla" > > > > > > > > > Rules will never be followed by bad actors but at least when they exist > > > they can be enforced.> > > > > > On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 2:53 PM Akseli akse...@akselmo.dev wrote: > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's been a lot of "AI" slop spam to various KDE projects, bug > > > > > reports, forums, etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We should take a more public stance on disallowing all this slop. > > > > > Lengthy gitlab issues that are just full of nonsense generated by a > > > > > bot just take time out of everyones schedules, trying to decipher > > > > > if its serious or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other projects have already done something similar, see for example: > > > > > https://discourse.gnome.org/t/loupe-no-longer-allows-generative-ai-> > > > > > > > > > contributions/27327 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't care if someone uses those tools in their personal projects, > > > > > but bringing this slop in to our shared space just frustrates > > > > > people and eats resources to go through. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we have somekind of official "please don't AI slop in our > > > > > places" sign somewhere? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > - Akseli Best regards, - Aks
Re: Disallow or discourage use of "AI" tools
Hi, I have the feeling that two topics are being mixed here. One is AI and the other one is spam. 12.05.2025 15:41:41 Akseli : > On 12 May 2025 16.28.02 EEST, Jin Liu wrote: >> Akseli 于2025年5月12日周一 20:53写道： >>> We should take a more public stance on disallowing all this slop. Lengthy >>> gitlab issues that are just full of nonsense generated by a bot just take >>> time out of everyones schedules, trying to decipher if its serious or not. >> >> I assume this doesn't include auto-completions done by Github Copilot? >> Because currently I guess it types ~70% of code and commit messages >> for me. And I would only accept when it types exactly what's in my >> mind. So I don't see if that's any different from "traditional" >> auto-completion in IDE and Chinese IME. >> >> -jin > > I'm mostly concerned about bug reports and such written by these bots. > Bug reports written by bots sound to me like spam independently of whether AI is involved. > My pragmatic stance is: As long as your code works and doesn't overcomplicate > things, I don't see that much of an issue. > > My more idealistic stance is banning these tools KDE wide because of how > unethical they can be, and how bad they can be from ecological sense. > That would be the part of the discussion that is AI related. > Anyway, I just want get rid of the AI slop spam, be it code or bug reports: > the lengthy SEO'd messages with useless information in them. > Not having seen such a report myself yet, your description sounds as if it is off-topic. Which again means it can be considered spam regardless of how it is generated. I don't think a policy will help to keep bots away. It could help though if it is a natural person writing low quality reports with the help of AI on a valid topic / bug. > - Aks Julius Julius Künzel KDE Developer Matrix: @jlskuz:kde.org KDE GitLab: https://invent.kde.org/jlskuz
Re: Disallow or discourage use of "AI" tools
Akseli 于2025年5月12日周一 20:53写道： > We should take a more public stance on disallowing all this slop. Lengthy > gitlab issues that are just full of nonsense generated by a bot just take > time out of everyones schedules, trying to decipher if its serious or not. I assume this doesn't include auto-completions done by Github Copilot? Because currently I guess it types ~70% of code and commit messages for me. And I would only accept when it types exactly what's in my mind. So I don't see if that's any different from "traditional" auto-completion in IDE and Chinese IME. -jin
Re: Disallow or discourage use of "AI" tools
On 12 May 2025 16.40.44 EEST, Harald Sitter wrote: >I mean, I guess. > >I am not exactly sure what a sign somewhere will help. People can just >ignore it, after all, they ignored the code of conduct (be >considerate) as well as the seemingly obvious courtesy of not wasting >other people's time... may as well ignore the sign. At the same time >routing all input through anti-AI AIs is probably not a useful >expenditure of time either. 🤷 > Maybe it wont help, but at least we have a sign to tap on. "This was obviously generated with AI, we dont allow that, bla bla" Rules will never be followed by bad actors but at least when they exist they can be enforced. >On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 2:53 PM Akseli wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> There's been a lot of "AI" slop spam to various KDE projects, bug reports, >> forums, etc.. >> >> We should take a more public stance on disallowing all this slop. Lengthy >> gitlab issues that are just full of nonsense generated by a bot just take >> time out of everyones schedules, trying to decipher if its serious or not. >> >> Other projects have already done something similar, see for example: >> https://discourse.gnome.org/t/loupe-no-longer-allows-generative-ai-contributions/27327 >> >> I don't care if someone uses those tools in their personal projects, but >> bringing this slop in to our shared space just frustrates people and eats >> resources to go through. >> >> Can we have somekind of official "please don't AI slop in our places" sign >> somewhere? >> >> Thanks, >> - Akseli >>
Re: Disallow or discourage use of "AI" tools
It being generated by AI is not the same as it being low quality though? Are we against low quality or against AI? On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 4:11 PM Akseli wrote: > > On 12 May 2025 16.40.44 EEST, Harald Sitter wrote: > >I mean, I guess. > > > >I am not exactly sure what a sign somewhere will help. People can just > >ignore it, after all, they ignored the code of conduct (be > >considerate) as well as the seemingly obvious courtesy of not wasting > >other people's time... may as well ignore the sign. At the same time > >routing all input through anti-AI AIs is probably not a useful > >expenditure of time either. 🤷 > > > > Maybe it wont help, but at least we have a sign to tap on. "This was > obviously generated with AI, we dont allow that, bla bla" > > Rules will never be followed by bad actors but at least when they exist they > can be enforced. > > >On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 2:53 PM Akseli wrote: > >> > >> Hi > >> > >> There's been a lot of "AI" slop spam to various KDE projects, bug reports, > >> forums, etc.. > >> > >> We should take a more public stance on disallowing all this slop. Lengthy > >> gitlab issues that are just full of nonsense generated by a bot just take > >> time out of everyones schedules, trying to decipher if its serious or not. > >> > >> Other projects have already done something similar, see for example: > >> https://discourse.gnome.org/t/loupe-no-longer-allows-generative-ai-contributions/27327 > >> > >> I don't care if someone uses those tools in their personal projects, but > >> bringing this slop in to our shared space just frustrates people and eats > >> resources to go through. > >> > >> Can we have somekind of official "please don't AI slop in our places" sign > >> somewhere? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> - Akseli > >> >
Re: Disallow or discourage use of "AI" tools
Hi, On Monday, May 12th, 2025 at 16:19, Harald Sitter wrote: > > > It being generated by AI is not the same as it being low quality > though? Are we against low quality or against AI? I think there is a big difference between just low quality and AI. Naturally high quality contributions are nice, but if somebody puts in time to contribute and just the quality is lacking, I am willing to help. There is effort spent on both sides. With AI, there is no effort spend on the other side, just some wasted energy consumption. With such contributions you can DoS any organization. Greetings Christoph > > On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 4:11 PM Akseli akse...@akselmo.dev wrote: > > > On 12 May 2025 16.40.44 EEST, Harald Sitter sit...@kde.org wrote: > > > > > I mean, I guess. > > > > > > I am not exactly sure what a sign somewhere will help. People can just > > > ignore it, after all, they ignored the code of conduct (be > > > considerate) as well as the seemingly obvious courtesy of not wasting > > > other people's time... may as well ignore the sign. At the same time > > > routing all input through anti-AI AIs is probably not a useful > > > expenditure of time either. 🤷 > > > > Maybe it wont help, but at least we have a sign to tap on. "This was > > obviously generated with AI, we dont allow that, bla bla" > > > > Rules will never be followed by bad actors but at least when they exist > > they can be enforced. > > > > > On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 2:53 PM Akseli akse...@akselmo.dev wrote: > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > There's been a lot of "AI" slop spam to various KDE projects, bug > > > > reports, forums, etc.. > > > > > > > > We should take a more public stance on disallowing all this slop. > > > > Lengthy gitlab issues that are just full of nonsense generated by a bot > > > > just take time out of everyones schedules, trying to decipher if its > > > > serious or not. > > > > > > > > Other projects have already done something similar, see for example: > > > > https://discourse.gnome.org/t/loupe-no-longer-allows-generative-ai-contributions/27327 > > > > > > > > I don't care if someone uses those tools in their personal projects, > > > > but bringing this slop in to our shared space just frustrates people > > > > and eats resources to go through. > > > > > > > > Can we have somekind of official "please don't AI slop in our places" > > > > sign somewhere? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > - Akseli signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Disallow or discourage use of "AI" tools
I am 100% for this. Most AI tools just scrape (read: steal) code from whatever source they can, with no attribution or consideration for legal rights/copyright. Accepting any AI generated code is a legal risk unless the source of the code can be verified. I would wager 99.999% of people using AI tools wouldn't know what the source of the code is, or how it is licensed. On 12/05/2025 22:23, Akseli wrote: Hi There's been a lot of "AI" slop spam to various KDE projects, bug reports, forums, etc.. We should take a more public stance on disallowing all this slop. Lengthy gitlab issues that are just full of nonsense generated by a bot just take time out of everyones schedules, trying to decipher if its serious or not. Other projects have already done something similar, see for example:https://discourse.gnome.org/t/loupe-no-longer-allows-generative-ai-contributions/27327 I don't care if someone uses those tools in their personal projects, but bringing this slop in to our shared space just frustrates people and eats resources to go through. Can we have somekind of official "please don't AI slop in our places" sign somewhere? Thanks, - Akseli
Re: Disallow or discourage use of "AI" tools
I mean, I guess. I am not exactly sure what a sign somewhere will help. People can just ignore it, after all, they ignored the code of conduct (be considerate) as well as the seemingly obvious courtesy of not wasting other people's time... may as well ignore the sign. At the same time routing all input through anti-AI AIs is probably not a useful expenditure of time either. 🤷 On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 2:53 PM Akseli wrote: > > Hi > > There's been a lot of "AI" slop spam to various KDE projects, bug reports, > forums, etc.. > > We should take a more public stance on disallowing all this slop. Lengthy > gitlab issues that are just full of nonsense generated by a bot just take > time out of everyones schedules, trying to decipher if its serious or not. > > Other projects have already done something similar, see for example: > https://discourse.gnome.org/t/loupe-no-longer-allows-generative-ai-contributions/27327 > > I don't care if someone uses those tools in their personal projects, but > bringing this slop in to our shared space just frustrates people and eats > resources to go through. > > Can we have somekind of official "please don't AI slop in our places" sign > somewhere? > > Thanks, > - Akseli >
Re: Disallow or discourage use of "AI" tools
On 12 May 2025 16.28.02 EEST, Jin Liu wrote: >Akseli 于2025年5月12日周一 20:53写道： >> We should take a more public stance on disallowing all this slop. Lengthy >> gitlab issues that are just full of nonsense generated by a bot just take >> time out of everyones schedules, trying to decipher if its serious or not. > >I assume this doesn't include auto-completions done by Github Copilot? >Because currently I guess it types ~70% of code and commit messages >for me. And I would only accept when it types exactly what's in my >mind. So I don't see if that's any different from "traditional" >auto-completion in IDE and Chinese IME. > >-jin I'm mostly concerned about bug reports and such written by these bots. My pragmatic stance is: As long as your code works and doesn't overcomplicate things, I don't see that much of an issue. My more idealistic stance is banning these tools KDE wide because of how unethical they can be, and how bad they can be from ecological sense. Anyway, I just want get rid of the AI slop spam, be it code or bug reports: the lengthy SEO'd messages with useless information in them. - Aks
Disallow or discourage use of "AI" tools
Hi There's been a lot of "AI" slop spam to various KDE projects, bug reports, forums, etc.. We should take a more public stance on disallowing all this slop. Lengthy gitlab issues that are just full of nonsense generated by a bot just take time out of everyones schedules, trying to decipher if its serious or not. Other projects have already done something similar, see for example: https://discourse.gnome.org/t/loupe-no-longer-allows-generative-ai-contributions/27327 I don't care if someone uses those tools in their personal projects, but bringing this slop in to our shared space just frustrates people and eats resources to go through. Can we have somekind of official "please don't AI slop in our places" sign somewhere? Thanks, - Akseli
