Re: How many people to admin a Cyrus system?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> > How many
> > and what sort of people does it take to maintain a system such as
> > this?  I need a good argument for hiring a replacement for me.
> At a minimum you want 1 qualified person and someone cross-trained
> as a backup, so that person can reasonably enough have vacations.
> Any decent sysadmin should be able to MAINTAIN such a service
> I don't think actually programming skills should be primary.  

Agree.  I maintain a Cyrus system.  And on most days that doesn't even
involve touching it.  Any reasonably proficient person with UNIX skills
should be able to take over Cyrus administration given they are willing
to do some reading.

> I have been
> doing sysadmin work since 1989 and the actual programming work I've
> done in that time has been maybe 2% of it.  If you have a lot of custom
> interface stuff to your campus systems maybe you need more programmer
> skills.   As a completely inappropriate generalization, former engineers
> and mathematicians also make good sysadmins because they have the mindset
> and the skills for problem decomposition and trouble-shooting.

Yep.


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Re: Calendars && Cyrus

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> > If we could ever get a decent calendar system that works together with
> > Cyrus or other software many people would be happy.

We use OpenGroupware - http://www.opengroupware.org

Server is entirely Open Source;  Outlook plugin (MAPI provider) is
commercial.

Works very well with Cyrus; which is its intended IMAP server.

> We run Cyrus for mail, Oracle Collaboration Suite ($$, but not  
> Exchange-$$) for calendaring.  The Outlook plugin that allows Outlook  
> to believe it has a genuine Exchange instance under it plays nice  
> with Cyrus (its target is Oracle's IMAP server that's bundled with  
> OCS).The OCS plugin for Exchange is smart enough to use CRAM-MD5  
> (or is it DIGEST-MD5) authentication if available, and TLS if available.



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Re: OT: Re: How many people to admin a Cyrus system?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> 3. Can't handle high load very well, in fact it handles load horribly.

I have a friend who works at a small shop who reports exactly the same
issue with Zimbra, s..ll...ooo.....

> 3) ClamAV.  Do note how much email I said we dealt with a minute.  We 
> didn't get a great deal of email.  Maybe 2000 email a day?  Not overly 
> much.  However as the ClamAV database would grow, if you restarted 
> ClamAV or Zimbra eventually it would take too long for ClamAV to start 
> and would not listen on the port assigned and would make mail fail to 
> deliver.  (Ouch huh?)

In defense of CLAMAV I can say that we run it on our SMTP server (not on
the IMAP or groupware server which seems like a bad idea).  It works
well and is pretty stable.  If your CLAMAV was causing you this problem
then Zimbra must have boloxed the setup or you just had a bad version.


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Re: FW: Retrieving a banned e-mail

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> We have a postfix+cyrus+Spamassassin setup and all the virus or Banned
> or spam e-mails will move to a folder on /var/virusmails.\
> I have a falseposative mail moved due to a banned attachment name.
> Could you please help me to retrieve these e-mails?

If it really is dumped into a folder in /var/virusmails then it isn't in
the Cyrus mail store (seems like a bad idea) and thus can't be accessed
via a mail client.  Why not reconfigure to but the junked e-mail into a
Junk folder?

(Or, IMHO, stop wasting time with overly complex SPAM solutions like
Spamassasin).

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams, Network & Systems Administrator
Consultant - http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com
Developer - http://www.opengroupware.org


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Re: OT: Re: How many people to admin a Cyrus system?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> One key piece of functionality that seems to be missing from every OSS 
> solution mentioned thus far is mobile device push support (Activesync), 
> this is not to be underestimated as it is for us, a key reason why we 
> are ultimately being forced to adopt Exchange en-mass and abandon our 
> current Cyrus infrastructure.

You haven't tried Funambol?  It supports over-the-air mobile devices
quite well.  You can sync IMAP natively, and they have a push
infrastructure.  You can sync with various groupware server's using
plugins.  For instance the GroupDAV plugin works for OpenGroupware,
Citadel, or USA.NET

Funambol:
http://www.funambol.com/opensource/

GroupDAV plugin:
http://bionicmessage.net/?q=node/18
http://bionicmessage.net/files/GroupWare_doc5.pdf


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Re: OT: Re: How many people to admin a Cyrus system?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> > This describes exactly the point of view of administrative staff.  They
> > live in Microsoft Office, and they need a server to support it.  That is
> > the assignment given.
> > I was looking at Open-Xchange on the web .
> > The server provides webmail and MAPI interfaces.  The "Hosting Edition"
> > (and maybe the others, it is not clear) can talk to Cyrus and includes
> > ACL support.
> > (We're still running both Exchange for admin staff and Cyrus for the
> > much larger university community of faculty and students.)
> Perhaps things have improved since my last foray into this area, but
> I've yet to find an "outlook connector" that was stable and didn't
> corrupt the hell out of the users PST. And at least with the Kolab

Never had a corrupt PST using ZideLook (the Outlook plugin for
OpenGroupware).  Make sue they provide a *real* MAPI provider for
outlook and not some background sync thingy (as several Open Source
Outlook connectors do or at least did).

> groupware product when I reviewed it, they made several architecture
> decisions that completely killed performance and then they went on to
> trivialize my concerns. Storing calendar objects as binary attachments
> in an IMAP store, effectively making them unsearchable, meant that every
> calendar access had to pull the entire store down, process it and
> display it. Not cool.

Yep,  the Kolab architecture goes in the "what are you, nuts?" column.


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Re: Calendars && Cyrus

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> > > Server is entirely Open Source;  Outlook plugin (MAPI provider) is
> > > commercial.
> > > Works very well with Cyrus; which is its intended IMAP server.
> > Speaking of calendars,... What about Mozilla Sunbird/Lightning?
> > They can speak to WebDAV enabled ICS calendar format. With a special
> > extension, Google Calendar Provider (freely available from
> > addons.mozilla.org), they can talk to Google Calendar.
> > Has anyone seen a calendar server that will work with Cyrus and Sunbird?
> We are using www.egroupware.org as Mail/Calendar/Contact-Frontend and it
> has rudimentary ICS over HTTP support. I spoke to the main developer and
> he says that ICS over HTTP is basically a very stupid idea (which I

Yep,  ICS over HTTP is not a groupware solution.  ICS is just a dumb
"calendar" file,  it doesn't deal with discrete events so trying to
share an ICS file results in a mess.

> concur). Other than the occasional glitch, it's working fine with
> Sunbird/Lightning.

OpenGroupware works with Sunbird, with some glitches.  CalDAV support is
being hammered out.

> Anyway, progress is made on getting GroupDAV (or was it CalDAV?) working
> with eGroupware, but it is still not there, though.


GroupDAV for contacts on OpenGroupware works pretty well.



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Re: OT: Re: How many people to admin a Cyrus system?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> > Never had a corrupt PST using ZideLook (the Outlook plugin for
> > OpenGroupware).  Make sue they provide a *real* MAPI provider for
> > outlook and not some background sync thingy (as several Open Source
> > Outlook connectors do or at least did).
> I'll have to give OGo a shot again, when I tested it, their connector
> was still alpha-alpha quality. Any other data on your OGo install

About ~250 users through various means,  only a handful of Outlook
users.  If you download the InstantOGo ISO it comes with a demo license
(I believe) so you can easily just install & test it in VMware, etc...
http://www.instantogo.com/download/index.html

Also WMOGAG (Whitemice Consulting OpenGroupware Adminstrator's Guide)
might be handy,  otherwise documentation other than for ZideLook is
pretty sparse.
http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view

> (number of users, clients, etc.) that you'd be willing to part with?
> I've been lucky to avoid the hellhole of exchange, but we've started
> hiring more people from larger companies who can't understand why we
> don't have it. Then I ask them how often they lost email or didn't have
> email, they usually tell me "frequently" or "several times, for over a
> week", and I get to tell them that in 7 years we've only had one
> unplanned email outage during business hours which I think lasted an
> hour... And that was when I bolloxed something ;)
> > Yep,  the Kolab architecture goes in the "what are you, nuts?" column.
> Good to hear someone else thought so as well...



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Re: Plugging into the imap system

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> > If you are using linux, maybe you can use inotify-tools to notify you of 
> > any change in cyrus' spool. 
> Be aware that the files on disk are created _before_ the index record,
> so you need to wait or poll until the index record has had a chance to
> be created.
> Even if you capture the "append" event on the cyrus.index file itself,
> you still won't see the new record until the 'exists' record in the
> index header is updated.

I think all these proposed solutions are hacks.  My question is, and
I've wondered this for awhile, is why the notifyd process seems so
worthless.  If notifyd could simply send notifications to a socket then
any site could just write a client to open the socket to listen and do
whatever, or nothing, they wanted to do with the notifications.  (That
and the documentation for notifyd is really scant.)


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Re: Can't access the imap server using telnet, nor send email.

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> > OK, so with PAM, how do you set passwords to your virtual users ?
> > sorry, i'm like _really_ lost, and running out of time :-/

Then take a breather and go back to the documentation.

I'm not aware of any remotely normal configuration that would
authenticate virtual user's against PAM.   Virtual users are (AFAIK)
usually authenticated against LDAP or an RDBMS since the essence of
virtual users is that they are *not* system accounts.   It would be
simpler to just authenticate them against whatever ident backend you are
actually using (either via saslauthd or straight SASL).

> Virtual user ? This mean your user don have local access to the server
> (ssh, ftp ...)
> Then you can use sasldb, without saslauth
> Exactly as I said.
> Maybe you have some problem with domain.
> 1 saspasswd2 foobar
> 2 saspasswd2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 3 saspasswd2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Move to new server

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> I want to move all mail to a new server. Old server has Cyrus 2.1.18
> (Debian Sarge), new server has Cyrus 2.2.13 (Debian Etch).
> In the past, I just copied all files in
> /var/spool/cyrus/
> /var/lib/cyrus
> But, is this a good way?

It probably works.

> Alternative is imapcopy. But I see you need a list of all users and
> passwords. That's a lot work to make (650 users). 

Or just connect as a user with administrative access.  We did a
migration with imapcopy,  no need to know all the user's passwords.

> Isn't it possible to use the admin-user to copy everything?

Yep.

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams, Network & Systems Administrator
Consultant - http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com
Developer - http://www.opengroupware.org


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Re: Dual & Quad Core processors

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Fri, 2008-02-29 at 08:45 -0600, Sam Egelhof wrote:
> Does Cyrus-imapd take advantage of Dual and\or Quad core processors?

Yes.

>  We are looking at upgrading our server to either 2x Dual core Xeon’s
> or 1 x Quad core Xeon processor. Does Cyrus have the ability to take
> advantage of this?

Yes



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Re: Couple of questions

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> A couple of questions.  I just migrated our company over to Cyrus/postfix 
> from UW/sendmail and I've noticed a few little quirks that I'm not able to 
> find a solution to.
> 1.)  If a pop user selects "keep messages on server" they start to see 
> duplicate emails.  I saw that other people on the listserv have also had 
> the same issues, but there's not been any resolution to this issue.  Q: 
> How come Cyrus doesn't implement the correct bahaviour, and is there any 
> work-around other than switching to IMAP over POP?  I've got pop users 
> that can't access IMAP (using phones for checking email when on travel 
> with "leave messages on server" then suck down the emails when they arrive 
> back at a desktop).  It's not feasable for them to move to IMAP and they 
> require this functionality.

Are you certain this is the fault of Cyrus and not a deficient client
that happened to work with UW?  Are they all using the same kind of
phone (what phone)?

> 2.)  It seems that Cyrus is inserting headers that confuse sendmail and/or 
> procmail.  When I'm tailing my procmail log, I see that all emails are 
> "From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]".  I'm guessing that procmail is getting this from 
> the 
> "Return-Path:" header that doesn't get inserted into the email with 
> sendmail.  Q: Can I tell Cyrus to not insert this header or is there a 
> work-around for procmail to detect the correct From: header and not get 
> confused?

I'm pretty certain such headers are coming from your MTA (postfix) and
not Cyrus.  But I've never used Cyrus with procmail as SIEVE is usually
sufficient.


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Re: Cyrus vs Dovecot

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> The real question is because we have only 2 options :
> Why should I choose Cyrus instead of dovecot ?

Features like delayed expunge, message expiration, etc... that allow you
to have a managed mail store.  Cyrus is the only Open Source IMAP/POP
server I know of with any capacity to support data-retention policies.


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Re: Cyrus vs Dovecot

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 12:53 +0200, Mathieu Kretchner wrote:
> Adam Tauno Williams a écrit :
> >> The real question is because we have only 2 options :
> >> Why should I choose Cyrus instead of dovecot ?
> > Features like delayed expunge, message expiration, etc... that allow you
> > to have a managed mail store.  Cyrus is the only Open Source IMAP/POP
> > server I know of with any capacity to support data-retention policies.
> Ok thanks ! A good point on the cyrus side !
> What about the performance ?

Cyrus performance is excellent.  Is there a specific problem?
Personally I don't think anything is faster than Cyrus.

> Does my next configuration will run correctly ? Which hardware should I 
> buy for this activity ?

Beats me.

> At present, we have a lot of I/O, we wonder if the last version of cyrus 
> is improved for this point ?

If you have allot of users and allot of mail you are going to have allot
of I/O.  No way around that, regardless of the server.  Cyrus' indexes
headers better now, so that might help.  But you still need adequate
through-put.  I've found that /var/lib/imap (meta-data) needs fast I/O
but /var/spool/imap (message store) doesn't due too bad tossed onto a
SAN or slower disks.


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Re: Web-cyradm and Zimbra maybe?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 14:48 +0300, Leon Kolchinsky wrote:
> Hello All,
> I'm using web-cyradm (mysql frontend for virt. domains+cyrus+postfix
> integration) for years and very happy with it.
> Now we need some implementation for shared calendars (let's say calendar
> solution for all our users).
> What would you recommend?
> Web-cyradm and Zimbra integration? Anyone have any experience with it? How
> would you handle authentication issue?
> Any other suggestions?

OpenGroupware.  


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Re: Web-cyradm and Zimbra maybe?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> > I'm using web-cyradm (mysql frontend for virt. domains+cyrus+postfix
> > integration) for years and very happy with it.
> > Now we need some implementation for shared calendars (let's say calendar
> > solution for all our users).
> > What would you recommend?
> > Web-cyradm and Zimbra integration? Anyone have any experience with it? How
> > would you handle authentication issue?
> We use Horde here with LDAP for domains+cyrus+postfix+calendars but it 
> works equally well with SQL. Got excellent webmail interface as well as 
> shared calendar support.
> http://www.horde.org/

I second the vote for Horde.  We've use'd Horde for webmail for a very
long time - it is simply the best webmail interface available and does a
very good job at dealing with the dorked or thrashed messages produced
by some mail clients.  In our testing [at the time] it was the only
webmail interface that could deal reliably with messages from Lotus
Notes/Domino that some of our customers sent.   Also the Horde suite can
front-end almost any data-store or database, it really is amazingly
configurable.  While we use OpenGroupware as the backend for our
scheduling (calendering) and CRM, etc... we use Horde for providing
webmail and interconnect the addressbook to our groupware system.


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Auto setting an expiration

[Adam Tauno Williams]

Via autocreateinboxfolders and autocreatequota a user's
mailbox/mailboxes can automatically be created when they authenticate to
the server.

Is there any way to automatically assign an "expire" value to newly
created mailboxes?  We automatically create a sent-mail folder when the
user logs in and would like to set the expire value of that mailbox to
365.


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Re: Deleting messages "marked for deletion" older than X days

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 10:05 +1000, Bron Gondwana wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 05:09:53PM -0500, Kenneth Marshall wrote:
> > In the manual page, the definition of the '-X' option seems to
> > do what you want:
> > 
> >   -X expunge-days
> >   Expunge  previously deleted messages older than expunge-days
> >   (when using the "delayed" expunge mode).  The default is
> >   0 (zero) days, which will expunge all previously deleted 
> > messages.
> Now, what the -X option actually does is turns this into:
> but the file is still on disk, just the index record has been moved
> from the file cyrus.index to a new file cyrus.expunge.  A week later:
> Cleaned up (no file) - cyr_expire -X 7
> The cyrus.expunge record and the actual spool file itself get deleted at
> this point.  Until then you can un-delete the record using the
> "unexpunge" command in cyrus 2.3.X.

I'm working on data-retention for my employer and I was wondering about
this.  The wording is a bit vague in the manual page (we are now using
deleted to mean multiple things...).   I have assumed that "-X 7" means
purge-the-message-seven-days-AFTER-IT-WAS-"EXPUNGED".  Is this correct?
I believe the manual page could also be read to mean
purge-the-message-AFTER-IT-WAS-"EXPUNGED"-AND-IS-OLDER-THAN-SEVEN-DAYS.
"OLDER-THAN-SEVEN-DAYS" meaning it was received more than seven days
ago [equivalent to "ipurge -d 7 -X"].  

> I think what the original requestor was actually looking for is a tool
> that can run the "EXPUNGE" phase on a regular basis.  As far as I'm
> aware there's nothing that ships with Cyrus that can do it.  If I was
> writing something for the job I would make an admin IMAP connection to
> Cyrus and just cycle through the folders calling 'EXPUNGE' on them.
> Cheap and nasty, but it would do the trick.  You can do this in any
> language with a TCP library, though something with an IMAP interface
> library would be nicer.  I'd use Perl and Mail::IMAPTalk, but that's
> just because that's what I already use!

I'd do it in python. :)  I've done some similar things for walking the
entire mailstore and building statistics, etc...  but it is REALLY slow!
A server side API for making tools like cyr_expire would be really nice.


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Telemetry Data Files

[Adam Tauno Williams]

I'm looking at Cyrus' ability to log telemetry data, but not finding
allot of documentation, so...

<12203617881220361788>* 66 FETCH (UID 485619 BODY[] {5256}
Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Received: from kyack.mormail.com (KYACK.mormail.com [192.168.1.8])
 by imap.mormail.com (Cyrus v2.2.12) with LMTPA;

I assume that "<" prefix indicates this is the command from the client
and ">" is the response from the server (followed by the subsequent
data)?

The "1220361788" is a timestamp?  (since that roughly converts to now)

"B00051" is some kind of sequence number?


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Re: Problem with skiplist

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> > That said - the one I posted is stable as well, we're running it in
> > production with all those patches - but what I'm pushing for 2.3.13
> > is just those two patches you mentioned above.  Here's a copy of
> > cyrusdb_skiplist.c with just those two.
> I have included both patches into our rpm packages some days ago and it
> seems to do well. Just to mention a positive feedback.

Have you published these fixed packages?


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info correct / quota wrong

[Adam Tauno Williams]

After migrating and updating my IMAP server everything seems to working,
but the quota reports wrong information for *SOME* mailboxes, seemingly
at random

cyrus-imapd-2.3.12p2-1 (CentOS5)

The quota value is crazy wrong!

localhost.localdomain> info user.fred
{user.fred}:
  condstore: false
  duplicatedeliver: false
  lastpop:  
  lastupdate: 14-Sep-2008 00:32:16 -0400
  partition: default
  sharedseen: false
  size: 127583

-bash-3.2$ /usr/lib/cyrus-imapd/quota -f  | grep fred
   0  4401742 user.fred

-bash-3.2$ du -sk /var/spool/imap/f/user/fred/
225296  /var/spool/imap/f/user/fred/

I can believe the result of "user.fred", but the quota report is
clearly wrong.
-- 
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Re: Cyrus IMAP/POP Banner

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> I have been googling over there and haven't find the answer to my question
> just another man looking for the same as me... I wanted to change the banner
> that cyrus imap and pop sends when you connect to them... basically the
> server greeting... I think it could be quite dangerous to show the version
> you're running... even the server you're running. Please could be anyway of
> doing this? how could I get my goal? For example when you telnet to port 110
> or 143 to be shown :
> +OK IMAP Server
> and nothing else

man imapd.conf

serverinfo: on

The  server  information to display in the greeting and capability
responses. Information is displayed as follows:

"off" = no server information in the greeting or capabilities
"min" = servername in the greeting; no server information  in  the
capabilities
"on"  =  servername  and  product version in the greeting; product
version in the capabilities

Allowed values: off, min, on



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Re: info correct / quota wrong

[Adam Tauno Williams]

Quoting Adam Tauno Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> After migrating and updating my IMAP server everything seems to working,
> but the quota reports wrong information for *SOME* mailboxes, seemingly
> at random
> cyrus-imapd-2.3.12p2-1 (CentOS5)
> The quota value is crazy wrong!
> localhost.localdomain> info user.fred
> {user.fred}:
>   condstore: false
>   duplicatedeliver: false
>   lastpop:
>   lastupdate: 14-Sep-2008 00:32:16 -0400
>   partition: default
>   sharedseen: false
>   size: 127583
> -bash-3.2$ /usr/lib/cyrus-imapd/quota -f  | grep fred
>0  4401742 user.fred
> -bash-3.2$ du -sk /var/spool/imap/f/user/fred/
> 225296/var/spool/imap/f/user/fred/
> I can believe the result of "user.fred", but the quota report is
> clearly wrong.

I've force complete recreation of the cyrus quota database;  and it  
has come up with the same numbers.


service cyrus-imapd stop

[EMAIL PROTECTED] imap]# pwd
/var/lib/imap
[EMAIL PROTECTED] imap]# rm -f ./db.backup2/quotas.db ./quotas.db  
./db.backup1/quotas.db

service cyrus-imapd stop


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Re: [OT] m$ activesync with cyrus backend

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> an off-topic question, but maybe you can help.
> i've got a lot of iphones to deploy and funambol will only sync contacts
> (apple has not placed access to calender/notes/tasks in their api).



I've been meaning to look into it as an alternative to Funambol (what a
monster!).

I don't know if it supports real IMAP or not.

> iphone does support activesync to do wireless sync to an exchange
> server.
> is there a way to mimic exchange server in the linux environment where i
> can keep my cyrus/postfix/amavis install -- is there a linux app that
> speaks "exchange"?

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Re: suggestion need to design an email system.

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> I noticed that dovecot and cyrus don't differ that much in speed to
> each other. Both seem to excel at certain points, while being weaker
> at another. But overall the performance on a huge mailbox seemed to be
> comparable. Dovecot seemed to be slightly better at searching in the
> mailbox, esp.

Do you have SQUAT enabled on Cyrus?  Are you sure that the IMAP client
in question sends searches to the server (aka: not using Thunderbird)?

> What really intrigued me about dovecot was the ability to run on
> standard mailbox formats, which may not be much of an issue when
> running in a pure cyrus environment, but is a huge plus when migrating
> from another server. 

I don't see why it is an advantage for migration.  Tools like imapsync
don't care.

> Especially the "self-healing indexes" which were
> built on first use of a mailbox, and not using a reconstruct. So
> getting dovecot to run was very simple. And I like programs which take
> a common format, and don't think they need to re-invent the wheel.

I actually view this as a strong negative as it incentivises people to
muck about in the mailstore rather than using the tool-chain.   All
operations on a "real" server (IMO) should be performed via a tool and
not by hacking about beneath the service.

> And the last thing is SASL. Dovecot needs no SASL, it brings
> authenticators for a variety of sources, and offers postfix and exim
> auth mechs as well. This may be a very personal thing, but if I can
> work around SASL, I'm very, very glad about that. SASL may offer
> everything you may need in a century of running a mailserver, but
> getting it to run is just painful, and debugging is non-existant (at
> least the last time I tried to implement it, which is a couple of
> years ago. Since then I worked around the issue whereever I could).

Again, I just disagree.  Most SASL operations these days, "just work".
And when using something like GSSAPI SASL is a nicely known quantity.

Documentation of SASL is generally pretty bad, but hey, this is Open
Source.  In general *ALL* the documentation is crap. :)

> Cyrus has undisputed the broadest implementation of the IMAP protocol
> in the open source world, especially regarding shared folders. If you
> need that, there is no way around cyrus. It has a very broad user
> base, and has proven itsself to be quite solid in terms of scalability
> and stability. Dovecot has yet to prove that (at least to me).
> If I personally had the chance, I would give dovecot a shot, at least
> in a testing environment. But probably mostly out of curiosity, and
> because "Its new" ;) But except for the missing support for shared
> mail folders, I see no real reasons against dovecot, at least not for
> giving it a try.

Does Dovecot support:
 - Delayed expunge
 - Expiration (like ipurge)
 - Single-instance storage

Not that Cyrus couldn't do with some improvement.  The notifyd, which is
really interesting, is basically useless.  It would be very nice to have
a way to do push e-mail without polling mailboxes.   Neither, I believe,
offer any real reporting, via SNMP or any other mechanism so all
capacity planning involves crawling around the OS collecting various
statistics.  (I'm pretty sure Cyrus actually has some SNMP support, but
documentation is zero;  I also haven't looked in awhile).
 
> And please don't take this as a personal insult to all hardcore cyrus
> evangelist. I tried to be just and unbiased, and after all, it is MY
> PERSONAL OPINION. On this mailinglist, you don't need one more person
> voting for cyrus, there are enough of those ;)

Yep. :)


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Re: suggestion need to design an email system.

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Wed, 2008-09-17 at 21:12 -0700, David Lang wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008, Wesley Craig wrote:
> > On 17 Sep 2008, at 11:40, Jens Hoffrichter wrote:
> >> Why does cyrus need it's own
> >> structure for the mailboxes, which is similar, but not wholly
> >> compatible, to maildir. Maildir and cyrus both suffer from the same
> >> disadvantages (huge needs in terms of inodes etc.), yet I see no
> >> distinctive advantage for the cyrus mailbox format to maildir.
> > Performance.  I could go on & on, but that's the answer, basically.
> actually, I suspect that Cyrus existed before Maildir and since Cyrus is a 
> 'black box' server there's no advantage to moving to maildir.
> Also Cyrus has cache, index, and flags stored seperatly from the message 
> itself, 
> which means that when these things are changed the message file itself 
> doesn't 
> need to change.

Yep,  which is why the sealed mailstore is a good idea: meta-data.  You
can keep reliable meta-data if third parties can go in and muck about.

> doign a quick google check on maildir it also appears that maildir is not as 
> standard as people think it is, it's defined almost entirely by the 
> implementation (DJB started it, but never worked to turn it into a standard 
> for 
> others to use)



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Re: suggestion need to design an email system.

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Wed, 2008-09-17 at 22:28 -0700, Scott M. Likens wrote:
> ...
> I debated writing a gui for Cyrus for administration, but I realized 
> that people implement Cyrus in so many different ways.  Kerberos, LDAP, 
> *SQL, various forms of PAM.  Then you add in virtual domains, and how 
> you might want alias's and might not, and different MTA support... and I 
> just caved.

Right, I've gone through the same thought process.  The only way to make
a *good* admin tool [IMHO] is to, to some extent, dictate how the system
is architected.  Since Open Source would generally reject that... no
good admin tools. :(   This is the primary advantage of M$ solutions:
they dictate generally how it will work, what components will be used,
and thus can provide [I must admit] rather beautiful admin interfaces
and capacity planning tools. 

> Creating a basic way to support Cyrus is extremely easy in ruby, has the 
> ability to create mailboxes easily, delete them, set permissions and set 
> quotas.

We've created one in PHP, and I've worked on one in .NET,  so I don't
think the platform really matters.  But each ends up welded to its
site's policies and configuration in a myriad of little ways.

> That would be the basics, but once you create a web-ui to support the 
> basics.  You could write it up in Ruby on Rails in a couple hours to 
> cover the basics and get the job done.  But it's tying the 
> authentication system and MTA into the app that would be the hassle.  :(
> (now I write this i don't know why I did... but I did)

Maybe it has improved but when I surveyed the available management
interfaces [years ago now] most of them were pretty scary in terms of
security [apache/wwwrun needed to be able to execute commands, no
support for "real" authorization (like Kerberos), etc...].  This stems I
think from the fact that configuration of most services can't be done
via an API but only by mucking about in files and restarting or at least
HUP'ing important processes.  It just doesn't lend itself to good
manageability.
-- 
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Re: suggestion need to design an email system.

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Thu, 2008-09-18 at 03:28 -0700, David Lang wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-09-17 at 21:12 -0700, David Lang wrote:
> >> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008, Wesley Craig wrote:
> >>> On 17 Sep 2008, at 11:40, Jens Hoffrichter wrote:
> >>>> Why does cyrus need it's own
> >>>> structure for the mailboxes, which is similar, but not wholly
> >>>> compatible, to maildir. Maildir and cyrus both suffer from the same
> >>>> disadvantages (huge needs in terms of inodes etc.), yet I see no
> >>>> distinctive advantage for the cyrus mailbox format to maildir.
> >>> Performance.  I could go on & on, but that's the answer, basically.
> >> actually, I suspect that Cyrus existed before Maildir and since Cyrus is a
> >> 'black box' server there's no advantage to moving to maildir.
> >> Also Cyrus has cache, index, and flags stored seperatly from the message 
> >> itself,
> >> which means that when these things are changed the message file itself 
> >> doesn't
> >> need to change.
> > Yep,  which is why the sealed mailstore is a good idea: meta-data.  You
> > can keep reliable meta-data if third parties can go in and muck about.
> one of those "can" should be "can't" :-)

Yep, I mean nope, I mean... :)

Should have been:

Yep,  which is why the sealed mailstore is a good idea: meta-data.  You
can't keep reliable meta-data if third parties can go in and muck about


Anyway, this is the same reason one puts a web service in front of an
RDBMS (rather than clients connecting directly to the DB).  Three-tier
architectures just facilitate greater consistency and security than
two-tier systems [witness the constant security breaches in many LAMP
applications, not for the same technical reasons maybe, but at least on
one level it is conceptually the same kind of problem].  After a decade
of sys-admin work I've become rather a bigot about this kind of thing.

> >> doign a quick google check on maildir it also appears that maildir is not 
> >> as
> >> standard as people think it is, it's defined almost entirely by the
> >> implementation (DJB started it, but never worked to turn it into a 
> >> standard for
> >> others to use)


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Re: lmtpunix: DBERROR db4: Logging region out of memory; you may need to increase its size

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> I got no answer on this subject, does someone has a suggestions, or 
> maybe should I give more details ?

Possibly create a DB_CONFIG file in the db directory and restart Cyrus?
I ***ASSUME*** that Cyrus will honor the settings in the DB_CONFIG file.
(?)



This is a common issue with somewhat older versions of OpenLDAP when
mixed with admins who refuse to read the documentation.  But I've never
encountered it with Cyrus.

> >> I know this problem has been answered on different lists, but I don't 
> >> understand what to do to correct it ?
> >>
> >> lmtpunix[16846]: DBERROR db4: Logging region out of memory; you may need 
> >> to increase its size



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Re: suggestion need to design an email system.

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> I'm planning to use Phamm again but this time with Cyrus. First I need 
> to know how to execute cyrus tasks without cyradm (creating mailboxes, 
> setting/changing quota, remove mailboxes, etc).

All of these tasks, AFAIK, can be performed via IMAP.  So I'd image they
are performed the same way for all IMAP servers.

>  I was thinking about  cyradm + expect but it's just an idea by now.

Since you use PHP why not use PHP's Cyrus & IMAP support.



Although it might be better to see if there is a PEAR/PECL module that
wraps/bundles the functionality.




My experience with PHP's "native" IMAP support is that it is quite flaky
and has dreadful [to none] error handling.  But it is PHP after all. :)


> Bytes!
> 
> J. Bakshi escribió:
> > Dear list,
> > 
> > I have a running email system which I made in 2006 based on
> > postfix+cyrus+openldap. The authentication is based on openldap.
> > I have done some reading through net and find a new mail server dovecot.
> > I have to create another email system for multidomain based hosting
> > server where both scalability as well as performance should be in prime
> > consideration. I need your kind suggestion for this. shall I use dovecot
> > or cyrus can fit my requirement ? another important questing ; Is there
> > any webinterface which can manage the mail system based on LDAP ?
> > There are many with MySql but any application which can work with
> > postfix+cyrus+openldap ?
> > 
> > thanks
> > 
> > 
> 
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Re: Archiving emails with Cyrus

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> we use Cyrus 2.2 on a Debian Etch Linux with Sasl and Thunderbird as a
> IMAP mailclient for our users. The problem is, that the mailboxes become
> very big, so I look for an automatic archiving software, which takes the
> mails out of the mailbox into a file and a searchable database.

Are you looking to archive message for data-retention or because you  
need to recover capacity?

> Thunderbird offers the possibility to mark a mail with an editable
> keyword (right mouseclick) even as a bulk operation on all selected emails.

Does that actually get saved to the server?  Or just in TB's cache?

> So my plan is, that the user marks all mails which can be archived with
> that keyword (lets say "archive"), or move them to a subfolder "archive".
> There must be a process in cyrus, which copies these emails into a
> (zip)-file and/or into a database, to have them somehow accessable.
> Cyrus must do this with the administrator account,

It should be trivial to write an IMAP tool that will archive messages.  
  I'm curious because I am currently working on a .NET/Gtk#  
application to do some management of Cyrus.  Currently it profiles a  
mailstore and creates a graph relating age of messages to storage  
space consumed.

> because the imap
> credentials of all the users are of course not known to us. Or we
> install an "archive"-useraccount which has access to all mailboxes.

Recommend the second,  I try never to connect to the box as the cyrus  
account.  Just grant appropriate access to the appropriate resources.

> Does something like this exist? Where to look for?

Not to my knowledge.



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Re: Archiving emails with Cyrus

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> Adam Tauno Williams schrieb:
> > Are you looking to archive message for data-retention or because you  
> > need to recover capacity?
> I'll need both, sooner or later. For the moment it'll be enough to gain 
> some more capacity. Thanks for your answer.
> >> Thunderbird offers the possibility to mark a mail with an editable
> >> Keyword (right mouseclick) even as a bulk operation on all selected emails.
> > Does that actually get saved to the server?  Or just in TB's cache?
> Good question. I played around a bit, and looked in the cyrus mail 
> spool, but it seems these marks are not transferred back to the server.

What I expected, 

> > plication to do some management of Cyrus.  Currently it profiles a  
> > mailstore and creates a graph relating age of messages to storage  
> > space consumed.
> I could do that with php, but if the users can't mark their messages to 
> be archived, than it'll not be flexible enough. I can do that, just by 
> date, but that's not what I want.

It's a bummer that basically no clients support annotation.  Probably
setting up an archive folder is the only workable solution.


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Re: Cyrus Deadblocking

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> since yesterday i have strange behavier of my productive mail server, and i
> cannt find the reason for 2 days allready.

Does "dmesg" show anything odd?

> I didnt changed anything lately, but yesterday my cyrus starts rise cpu
> load up to 100% and after some time it stop responding. Mostly its a lmtp
> process, but it happends to pop3 also, or to imapd process self.
> What helps - restart. There is nothing in the log what would show the
> problem.

If you attach to a hung process with "strace -p {pid}" what does it look
like?

> All sendmail processes, as they use smmapd for local delivery are blocked
> also.
> Ca. 2 weeks ago i updated glibc to 2.9 version. But it worked this two
> weeks fine. 

Did you restart the services after the update?

> I am on gentoo box.

Oh.

> [ebuild   R   ] sys-libs/db-4.6.21_p3-r1  USE="-bootstrap -doc -java -nocxx
> -tcl -test" 0 kB
> [ebuild   R   ] sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201  USE="gd (multilib) nls -debug
> -glibc-compat20 -glibc-omitfp (-hardened) -profile (-selinux) -vanilla" 0
> kB
> [ebuild   R   ] net-mail/cyrus-imapd-2.3.13  USE="idled pam ssl tcpd
> (-drac) -kerberos -kolab -nntp -replication -snmp" 0 kB

I assume the above is some Gentoo thing.

> I use squater, sieve, imap and pop3. Ipurge starts from cron time to time.
> If cyrus goes in to the blocking state, 

Sounds to be like Cyrus is not the only thing getting hung,  which
indicates the problem probably lies elsewhere.

> and i manualy start ipurge i get
> message about how much messages will be deleted, how much scanned and etc.
> but process self never get to promt back.
> I understand that this description doesnt provide any usefull information,
> that will help identify problem. If i could identify it, i would already
> fix it probably. But its my last hope, maybe someone can point me whats
> wrong ?


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Online ChangeLog

[Adam Tauno Williams]

Is the Cyrus website's ChangeLog
 no longer updated?


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Re: Migrating mailbox from cyrus-imapd-2.2.10 to 2.3.7

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> A server of mine crashed.  I'm brought up another new server that's
>running cyrus-imapd 2.3.7.  I copied my backup of /var/spool/imap to
>  the new server.  

Did you copy the metadata?  /var/lib/imap?

> When I connect, I can see all of the mail in my Inbox, but none of the
> subfolders show up.  The first time I tried to connect with
> Thunderbird, I got a message to the effect that the folder could not
> be found.
> Any idea why this is happening and what I can do to fix the problem?

Running a reconstruct wouldn't hurt.

P.S. Please try to post without HTML as it makes replying a pain.


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Re: migrating mapi

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 11:50 +0100, Gabriele Bulfon wrote:
> Hi, I'm on the run to install a new cyrus imap server with 50 clients.
> All of them have mapi clients with their old pop account on Outlook or
> Express, containing all their history emails in folders.
> I was going to develop a mini tool to transfer mapi account folders
> and emails onto the imap server in Java, but it seems there is few
> chances to read mapi folders from Java...am I wrong?

Do you really need MAPI?  I didn't think Outlook Express did MAPI, only
"real" Outlook does.  Do you need to actually communicate with an
Exchange server or just process the local mail files (PST? EML?)

> In any case, I don't need this tool do be Java at all, it's just that
> I write only Java for years, and I'm skilled with JavaMail.
> I also searched for existing tools to do this, but found none.
> Can you help?

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Invalid certificate @ bugzilla.andrew.cmu.edu

[Adam Tauno Williams]

If I try to visit the link
 my browser
presents a certificate error (untrusted issuer);  I don't even get an
opportunity to connect-anyway.  Does anyone else have this issue
accessing bugzilla.andrew.cmu.edu?


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Re: Invalid certificate @ bugzilla.andrew.cmu.edu

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Fri, 2008-12-19 at 10:46 -0500, Matt Selsky wrote:
> On Dec 19, 2008, at 9:13 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> > If I try to visit the link
> > <http://bugzilla.andrew.cmu.edu/show_bug.cgi?id=3115> my browser
> > presents a certificate error (untrusted issuer);  I don't even get an
> > opportunity to connect-anyway.  Does anyone else have this issue
> > accessing bugzilla.andrew.cmu.edu?
> You need to download the CMU CA certificate:
> https://www.cmu.edu/computing/software/all/certs/download.html

Yep. Imported that cert as a CA and now it works perfectly.  Thanks.


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Re: Cyrus Deadblocking

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Wed, 2008-12-24 at 14:27 +0100, Teresa wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:30:31 +0100, Teresa  wrote:
> > Teresa wrote:
> > reconstruct -r -f user
> > and now run cyrus without squatted. And it seems to work. I have no idea 
> > if its on squatter, or on few broken folders. Running stable for about 6 
> > hours now.
> Ok, latest state. After 13 hours happy running it did hanged again.
> I did downgraded kernel to 2.6.26.8 and it doesn't changed anything.
> Behavier the same as with 2.6.27.10.
> So i think thats because of Berkley DB and glibc-2.9

Why?  If so it makes more sense to convert your databases to skiplist
and see if that helps than to flop library versions.

> It still randomly hangs. One of cyrus processes (ipurge, smmapd, imapd or
> pop3) just hangs, sometimes it  take few mins to happend, sometimes few
> hours, or it can run even whole week.
> What i did now is update to db-4.7.25 maybe it works more stable with
> glibc-2.9 i dont know.

Maddly flipping versions seems a poor diagnostic method (if it even
qualifies as a diagnostic method).

The best approach is to switch to a distribution where things are tested
and shipped in a known-working binary (w/dependencies) built by people
who actually understand what the various compiler options mean, etc...
Your method of shut-gunning various library versions isn't very likely
to lead you to a solution.


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Re: Cyrus Deadblocking

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2008-12-23 at 02:44 +0100, Teresa wrote:
> Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> >> Does "dmesg" show anything odd?
> Another thing i get sometimes connecting hanging cyrus process with 
> strace is a lot of :
> select(0, NULL, NULL, NULL, {0, 25000}) = 0 (Timeout)
> few per second, and it never ends...

This above should be pretty normal.  Select polls for any I/O, times out
(because there is nothing to do), and then the process re-issues the
select.  Many services/servers use such a method to handle async I/O.

I'd guess the above is a call to:
   int select(int nfds, fd_set *readfds, fd_set *writefds,
  fd_set *exceptfds, struct timeval *timeout);
 - so the last value, the {0, 25000} is the timeout timeval struct -

struct timeval
  {
__time_t tv_sec;/* Seconds.  */
__suseconds_t tv_usec;  /* Microseconds.  */
  };

 - so you get one of the select(...) calls roughly every 25,000
microseconds since.



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Re: Cyrus Deadblocking

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Mon, 2008-12-22 at 23:11 +0100, Teresa wrote:
> Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> >> since yesterday i have strange behavier of my productive mail server, 
> >> and i
> >> cannt find the reason for 2 days allready.
> > Does "dmesg" show anything odd?
> Ok guys, it happend again just right now. Exactly same behavier as 
> described befor, but after few days successfully running.
> I restarted a cyrus and sendmail and attached strace to the lmpd this 
> time. After some time (squatter was still working) it goes to take 100% 
> cpu and doenst answer. Hangs.
> > If you attach to a hung process with "strace -p {pid}" what does it look
> > like?
> No idea what it says, but here is my strace output from lmtpd that hangs 
> at the end. Then i sended kill command, what you can see at the last line:
> http://kvitka.net/log2.strace.txt

Looks like one of the last things it did was put a message into
user.teresa.Junk and then notify idled that the contents of
user.teresa.Junk had changed.

Nothing very suspicious.


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Re: choosing a file system

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Wed, 2008-12-31 at 11:47 +0100, LALOT Dominique wrote:
> Thanks for everybody. That was an interesting thread. Nobody seems to
> use a NetApp appliance, may be due to NFS architecture problems.

Personally, I'd never use NFS for anything.  Over the years I've had way
to many NFS related problems on other things to ever want to try it
again.

> I believe I'll look to ext4 that seemed to be available in last
> kernel, and also to Solaris, but we are not enough to support another
> OS.

We've used Cyrus on XFS for almost a years, no problems.  

In regards to ext3 I'd pay attention to the vintage of problem reports
and performance issues;  ext3 of several years ago is not the ext3 of
today, many improvements have been made.  "data=writeback" mode can help
performance quite a bit, as well as enabling "dir_index" if it isn't
already (did it ever become the default?).  The periodic fsck can also
be disabled via tune2fs.   I only point this out since, if you already
have any ext3 setup,  trying the above are all painless and might buy
you something.


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Re: choosing a file system

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Wed, 2008-12-31 at 15:46 +0200, Janne Peltonen wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 07:38:21AM -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> > In regards to ext3 I'd pay attention to the vintage of problem reports
> > and performance issues;  ext3 of several years ago is not the ext3 of
> > today, many improvements have been made.  "data=writeback" mode can help
> > performance quite a bit, as well as enabling "dir_index" if it isn't
> > already (did it ever become the default?).  The periodic fsck can also
> > be disabled via tune2fs.   I only point this out since, if you already
> > have any ext3 setup,  trying the above are all painless and might buy
> > you something.
> I wouldn't call data=writeback painless. I had it on in the testing phase
> of our current Cyrus installation, and if the filesystem had to be
> forcibly unmounted by any reason (yes, there are reasons), the amount of
> corruption in those files that happened to be active during the unmount
> - well, it wasn't a nice sight. And the files weren't recoverable,
> except from backup.
> I never really got the point of the data=writeback mode. Sure, it
> increases throughput, but so does disabling the journal completely, and
> seems to me the end result as concerns data integrity is exactly the
> same.

The *filesystem* is recoverable as the meta-data is journaled.
*Contents* of files may be lost/corrupted.  I'm fine with that since a
serious abend usually leaves the state of the data in a questionable
state anyway for reasons other than the filesystem;  I want something I
can safely (and quickly) remount and investigate/restore.  It is a
trade-off.


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Re: choosing a file system

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> > I had the feeling whatever optimizations done at the FS level would give
> > us a max of 5-10% benefit.
> > We migrated from ext3 to reiserfs  on our cyrus servers with 30k
> > mailboxes. I am not sure I saw a great benefit in terms of the iowait.
> > At peak times I always see a iowait of 40-60%
> To be honest, that's not what we saw in our ext3 <-> reiserfs tests.
> What mount options are you using? Are you using the mount options I 
> mentioned?
> noatime,nodiratime,notail,data=ordered

FYI, noatime implies nodiratime.  You can set nodiratime without atime,
but not atime without nodiratime.

> > But the new Solid-State-Disks seem very promising. They are claimed to
> > give 30x the throughput of a 15k rpm disk. If IO improves by 30 times
> > that should make all these optimizations unnecessary.
> > As my boss used to tell me ... Good hardware always compensates for
> > not-so-good software.
> What we've found is that the meta-data (eg mailbox.db, seen db's, quota 
> files, cyrus.* files) use WAY more IO than the email data, but only use 
> 1/20th the space.

Ditto.  The meta-data is very much the hot-spot for I/O.

> By separating the meta data onto RAID1 10k/15k RPM drives, and the email 
> data onto RAID5/6 7.2k RPM drives, you can get a good balance of 
> space/speed.

Agree.


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Re: choosing a file system

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> On the other hand, XFS was the only Linux filesystems capable to handle our 
> 5 million files (at that time, we're now at 33 million) we had in these 
> days with an acceptable performance. Ext3 was way too slow with directories 
> with > 1000 files (but many things have changed from kernel 2.4.x to 
> nowadays kernels)

It has;  not Cyrus but another application we had, and we had to make a
'hashed' directory structure to avoid the many-files-in-a-directory
situation.  But this isn't true anymore,  ext3 performs well with very
large directories.


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Re: help: i want to unsubscribe mail list

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2009-01-13 at 09:54 +0800, Leo P CHENG wrote:
> Hi :
> 
>  
> 
> Excuse me , I want to unsubscribe mail list from
> info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu .
> 
> But , how to do it ? 

As included in every message:



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Re: help: i want to unsubscribe mail list

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2009-01-13 at 09:54 +0800, Leo P CHENG wrote:
> Hi :
> Excuse me , I want to unsubscribe mail list from
> info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu .
> But , how to do it ? 

As included in every message -

List-Unsubscribe:
, 


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Re: Lmtp w/ Postfix and LDAP: change mailbox name when saving mail.

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Wed, 2009-01-21 at 14:01 -0300, k bah wrote:
> I need to know then how things are processed when mail arrives, from the 
> Cyrus point of view, of course.
>  First Postfix searches the user on LDAP, like this:
>  
> query_filter=(&(|(&(objectclass=postfixuser)(objectclass=inetlocalmailrecipient))
>  (objectclass=groupofuniquenames))(mail=%s))
> result_attribute=mailRoutingAddres)
>  on my LDAP server the fields are:
>   mail = usern...@domain.org
>   uid = username~domain.org
>   mailRoutingAddress = username~domain@domain.org (uid is the "user part")
>  My question is, how Cyrus decides what is the mailbox name, from what 
> Postfix gives or it just looks the user part of the email? I mean, Cyrus 
> knows the destination email is usern...@domain.org, then it assumes the 
> mailbox name is "username"? Or it uses the "user part" of whatever Postfix 
> gave(?), because if this is true, Cyrus should be using the user part of the 
> mailroutingaddress field..?

If your MTA (Postfix) is delivering via LMTP then Cyrus does what it is
told.  The mailbox is determined by Postfix.  We use the
"mailRoutingAddress" schema you describe above;  the user portion of the
e-mail address is completely irrelevant.  If you have

...
mailLoadAddress: fred.t.sm...@example.com
mailRoutingAddress: fred
...

Then mail to "fred.t.sm...@example.com" should get stuffed into the
INBOX "user.fred".
-- 
Adam Tauno Williams, Network & Systems Administrator
Consultant - http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com
Developer - http://www.opengroupware.org


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Re: Folders created by hand are not seen by cyradm

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> I created folders Trash, Sent, Queue, Draft, for a mailbox user,
> assigned permissions and owner for cyrus, recontructed,  
> but still cyrus can't see them. Please, what can I do??

What does "created by hand" mean?  

You modified the filesystem directly in the Cyrus spool?  Do not do
that.  If you did that: delete the folders and create the folders via
cyradm or an IMAP client.


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Displaying server metadata

[Adam Tauno Williams]

The description of "info" in cyradm is -
info  display mailbox/server metadata

But how does one get it to display server metadata?  It will display
mailbox metadata,  but I can't find any information on displaying the
values set with setinfo (admin/comment/expire/motd/shutdown/squat)


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setinfo admin

[Adam Tauno Williams]

According to the man manpage the "setinfo admin " command sets
the administrator e-mail address of the server.  Is this value actually
used anywhere or for any purpose?


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setinfo squat

[Adam Tauno Williams]

The cyradm "setinfo squat " command documentation says:


Indicates that all mailboxes should have a squat indexes created for
them (unless overridden by a mailbox annotation).


It doesn't seem to indicate if the value of the value (???) has any
meaning.  Does assigning any value to this attribute mean that squat
indexes are created by default for all mailboxes?  And thus having no
value means that this is not the case?  (overridden by mailbox
annotation, of course)


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Re: Displaying server metadata

[Adam Tauno Williams]

>> The description of "info" in cyradm is -
>> info  display mailbox/server metadata
>> But how does one get it to display server metadata?  It will display
>> mailbox metadata,  but I can't find any information on displaying the
>> values set with setinfo (admin/comment/expire/motd/shutdown/squat)
> localhost> setinfo admin "ad...@domain.tld"
> localhost> setinfo comment "Comment"
> localhost> setinfo motd "Message Of The Day"
> localhost> info
> Server Wide:
>   admin: ad...@domain.tld
> admin:
>   comment: Comment
> comment:
>   motd: Message Of The Day
> localhost>
> Maybe you want to be more verbose?

Ah, it just displays nothing if no values are set, and only the  
key:value pairs for values that are set.  I'd tested setting &  
unsetting but never "info" while I had values set Doh!

I'm writing up some documentation for cyradm and I've never set any of  
these values before (been using Cyrus since the 1.5.x days).


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Re: setinfo admin

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> Am Sonntag 08 Februar 2009 20:26:45 schrieb Adam Tauno Williams:
>> According to the man manpage the "setinfo admin " command sets
>> the administrator e-mail address of the server.  Is this value actually
>> used anywhere or for any purpose?
> Cyrus-IMAP itself does not use this, at least that I know of.

I haven't been able to find any evidence that any client supports  
using it either.


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Re: Security risk of POP3 & IMAP protocols

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> A friend of mine is asking me about security risks of using IMAP &
> POP3 protocols. Why? Because a sales person told my friend that IMAP
> protocol is less secure than POP3 protocol. This assumption is not
> related to Cyrus IMAP, instead is related only to the protocols.
> I'm searching at Google something about POP3 & IMAP security but I'm
> not pretty sure about comments I can found in forums or other sites.

I'd write this claim off as bogus;  use GSSAPI authentication and TLS
and either is extremely secure.  Your more pressing security
vulnerabilities will certainly be elsewhere (the client OS and
configuration, most likely).


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Re: Security risk of POP3 & IMAP protocols

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Fri, 2009-02-13 at 13:17 +, Duncan Gibb wrote:
> Jason Voorhees wrote:
> JV> a sales person told my friend that IMAP protocol is
> JV> less secure than POP3 protocol.
> Other people have covered the IMAP vs POP3 issues - Ian Batten most
> comprehensively - but one comment I would add is that if you make either
> service available to the open internet, even under SSL encryption,
> password-based authentication is still susceptible to dictionary attack.
>  So IMAP and/or POP3 (and/or SMTP AUTH) should be included in the list
> of things you rate limit, monitor for bad password attempts, and lock
> remote hosts out of if it they do things that look suspicious.

True;  but really none of those good practices is specific to any
protocol.   The exact same charge could be leveled against HTTP, FTP,
SSH, etc...  and if you use certificate/PKI authentication you run the
risk that someone could steal the private keys (and it isn't hard to
make a setup where that is comically easy).  It is really far and away
more about end-to-end security practices than it is the OSI layer 7
protocol(s) involved.

I stand by my assertion that the IMAP vs. POP issue is 100% bogosity. 


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Re: List to Spam Harvest

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 10:03 -0800, David Lang wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Feb 2009, John Thomas wrote:
> > I know little, so please forgive if this is wrong.
> > The following link seems to be crawled by Google and exposes our email
> > addresses to spam harvesters.  I wonder if it makes sense and is
> > possible to not do this or obfuscate the addresses?
> > http://cyrusimap.web.cmu.edu/archive/mailbox.php?mailbox=archive.info-cyrus
> if you send mail to a public mailing list it can be harvested by spammers.

Ugh, please no more obfustication than already [foolishly] exists.  It
does not work and defeats the very point of e-mail (facilitating
communication).

I'm posting this message as a...@morrison-ind.com,  although I
frequently use awill...@whitemice.org and
awill...@whitemiceconsulting.com as well.   And posting these here in
plain text unobfusticated will have no measurable effect on the amount
of SPAM I receive.   I've been using these addresses for years [a
decade?] go ahead and google them;  if someone is harvesting they've
certainly picked them up already - and the amount of SPAM I receive is
very manageable.


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Re: List to Spam Harvest

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 15:38 -0500, Joseph Brennan wrote:
> --On Friday, February 27, 2009 13:46 -0500 Adam Tauno Williams 
>  wrote:
> > And posting these here in
> > plain text unobfusticated will have no measurable effect on the amount
> > of SPAM I receive.   I've been using these addresses for years [a
> > decade?] go ahead and google them
> My address has been on the net since 1989 and Google tells me it is
> on 729 web pages.  I know for a fact that there are people here who
> get a lot more spam than I do, because I follow up on spam reports.
> Web harvesting certainly exists but I don't like going into hiding.

It exists but it is by no means the primary source of SPAM;  there has
been some research on how to attract SPAM and the clear far and away
winner is to sign up / register with a consumer products or services
company.  The last study I read indicated that doing so produced 50x
more SPAM than any other action.  Using a public e-mail list produced
essentially none.

> The compromise with " at " sounds pretty good though.  No argument.

Fine with me.


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Re: Separating master processes for different services to utilise multiple cores/cpus

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> I've never seen this problem.  I've been running cyrus for eight years
> now on dual P3 systems, dual Xeon (hyperthreaded), and now dual quad
> core systems.  The load has always been distributed across all
> processors.

Ditto, I've never seen a hot-processor situation.  Processes have  
always merrily bounced to the available CPU.

> Are you sure you're running an SMP kernel?  Although I'd
> think htop would only report on one core if you weren't.

Or your encountering some kind of filesystem bug or the like with is  
causing soemthing to hang for a spin-lock?  But that seems very  
unlikely (don't use resierfs).

> Quoting Atif Ghaffar :
>> Has no-one else really experienced this?

I have not;  we've been running Cyrus on various systems since like 1.5.x


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Re: mailbox directory

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2009-03-03 at 13:48 -0500, Tanis Patrick wrote:
> Greetings,
> I am using cyrus on redhat enterprise linux 5.3. Since i have upgraded
> to the last version, i notice the partition mailbox grow everyday.

By "partition mailbox" do you mean the partition that contains the
user's actual mailboxes (vs. the meta-data partition)?  If so, isn't it
normal for that partition to grow as new mail arrives?

Do you have SQUAT enabled?  Or delayed expunge?
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Re: mailbox directory

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2009-03-03 at 22:26 -0500, Tanis Patrick wrote:
> Thanks for your answer.
> I mean the folder that contains the user mailboxes. This folder grows 
> exponentially as soon as i upgrade to the last version. Can you tell me more 
> about SQUAT and delayed expunged?

See WMOGAG


For SQUAT, which is a full-text index of messages to enabled faster
searching, see page 122 

For delayed expunge, which keeps messages in the store even after the
user expunges them, see page 124

Either of these can cause the mailstore to seem to grow unnaturally.

And please keep messages on the list;  reply to the list, not to the
sender.

> > On Tue, 2009-03-03 at 13:48 -0500, Tanis Patrick wrote:
> >> Greetings,
> >> I am using cyrus on redhat enterprise linux 5.3. Since i have upgraded
> >> to the last version, i notice the partition mailbox grow everyday.
> > By "partition mailbox" do you mean the partition that contains the
> > user's actual mailboxes (vs. the meta-data partition)?  If so, isn't it
> > normal for that partition to grow as new mail arrives?
> > Do you have SQUAT enabled?  Or delayed expunge?

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Re: Intermittent mailbox not found

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> I have inherited a cyrus / postfix server, which is generally well-behaved.
> However, there is an intermittent error when delivering messages to a certain
> mailbox.  It is infrequent, and generally the message is delievered on the
> user's next attempt in his MUA.  The log is something like:

What format is your mailbox database in?  Do you see any concomitant
messages in the log?

> Mar  9 14:29:07 captain postfix/lmtp[20644]: D557618536:
> to=,
> relay=captain.munged-domain.com[/var/run/cyrus/socket/lmtp], delay=0.1,
> delays=0.02/0.01/0/0.08, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (host
> captain.munged-domain.com[/var/run/cyrus/socket/lmtp] said: 550-Mailbox
> unknown.
> Either there is no mailbox associated with this 550-name or you do not have
> authorization to see it. 550 5.1.1 User unknown (in reply to RCPT TO command))
> Mar  9 14:29:07 captain postfix/cleanup[20642]: ED3B418538:
> message-id=<20090309142907.ed3b418...@captain.munged-domain.com>
> Does anyone have any idea how I can go about debugging this?

Any chance you can increase the debug level of your MTA (postfix?) to
see the entire conversation?

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Re: Intermittent mailbox not found

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2009-03-10 at 08:52 +1100, Bron Gondwana wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 07:52:04PM +, Antony Gelberg wrote:
> > Mar  9 14:29:07 captain cyrus/lmtpunix[20645]: verify_user(user.sirius-john)
> > failed: Mailbox does not exits
> Where on earth is that error message from?  I don't see "not exits"
> anywhere in the current Cyrus codebase...

I'm thinking it is coming from Postfix's LMTP delivery agent.   I wonder
if some other error, like a connect error, occurs and Postfix falls back
to mailbox-does-not-exist.
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Re: Calling all regressions

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2009-03-10 at 12:07 +0100, Michael Menge wrote:
> Quoting Bron Gondwana :
> > Is there any good reason for a site to continue running 2.2 or even 2.1?
> Some Enterprise Distibutions still use 2.2.x as they maintain the
> same version for a very long time. E.g. Suse (SLES 10) uses Cyrus 2.2.12.
> These Distrutions patch the software with own patches and backports,
> but I don't know if SuSE backported changes from 2.3.x
> > If there is - I want to know it, and I want to fix it, so we don't  
> > have to think about maintaining the old Cyrus.  There aren't enough  
> > of us working on Cyrus to split the effort!
> > Now - also of interest is the cost of having to change  
> > configurations when upgrading.  2.3.x is NOT a direct dropin for  
> > 2.[12].x because some defaults have changed.  That's annoying.  I  
> > don't know any good solution other than refusing to start or  
> > complaining very loudly if those keys are NOT present in the config  
> > file.  I would make the error spit out:
> Is there a way to know if cyrus was updated?

Documentation is pretty miserable;  best source for changes is either
 or to read the CVS
commit maillist  [or
subscribe to it cyrus-cvs-subscr...@lists.andrew.cmu.edu ]
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Re: Vacation Application

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2009-03-10 at 13:42 -0400, Gottschalk, David wrote:
> Hi All,
>   I have a question regarding a vacation application for Cyrus servers. I want
>  to know what others are using to meet this need. Currently, we have a home 
> grown application that allows users to enable/disable vacation messages for 
> their Cyrus accounts. This application is old and outdated, and needs to be 
> replaced. I found the Horde vacation application which looks like it will 
> meet my needs, but I have one issue. We currently have three Cyrus servers 

We use Horde's Ingo application which I assume is what your referring
to.  It works very well and is relatively "pretty".

> with all the accounts spread out across those three servers. The problem I
>  am running into with any vacation application, is how to identify to the 
> vacation application which server a user is on without the user needing to
>  know this information. Is anyone else in a similar situation?

Could you use Horde hooks to this?  Horde hooks are pretty easy and they
can set values you then refer to in your sources configuration.

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Re: Intermittent mailbox not found

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2009-03-10 at 11:29 +, Antony Gelberg wrote:
> On 2009-03-09, Adam Tauno Williams  wrote:
> >> I have inherited a cyrus / postfix server, which is generally well-behaved.
> >> However, there is an intermittent error when delivering messages to a 
> >> certain
> >> mailbox.  It is infrequent, and generally the message is delievered on the
> >> user's next attempt in his MUA.  The log is something like:
> > What format is your mailbox database in?  Do you see any concomitant
> > messages in the log?
> Not sure what format it's in - I'm new to Cyrus but I thought it had its own
> format, similar to Maildir? 

Not the mail spool (/var/spool/imap?) but the metadata spool
(/var/lib/imap?).  There are multiple databases in the metadata spool,
one of which is the mailbox database that lists the mailboxes, their
ACLs, etc... These databases can be in a variety of formats: skiplist,
berkley db, flat, etc...   It is important to see if you have an DBERROR
(berkley) or skiplist error messages in your log as that might relate to
the problem.

[r...@sardine imap]# pwd
/var/lib/imap
[r...@sardine imap]# file mailboxes.db
mailboxes.db: Cyrus skiplist DB

>  I had to look up concomitant in the
> dictionary, and I don't believe there are any concomitant messages in the log.
> >> Mar  9 14:29:07 captain postfix/lmtp[20644]: D557618536:
> >> to=,
> >> relay=captain.munged-domain.com[/var/run/cyrus/socket/lmtp], delay=0.1,
> >> delays=0.02/0.01/0/0.08, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (host
> >> captain.munged-domain.com[/var/run/cyrus/socket/lmtp] said: 550-Mailbox
> >> unknown.
> >> Either there is no mailbox associated with this 550-name or you do not have
> >> authorization to see it. 550 5.1.1 User unknown (in reply to RCPT TO 
> >> command))
> >> Mar  9 14:29:07 captain postfix/cleanup[20642]: ED3B418538:
> >> message-id=<20090309142907.ed3b418...@captain.munged-domain.com>
> >> Does anyone have any idea how I can go about debugging this?
> > Any chance you can increase the debug level of your MTA (postfix?) to
> > see the entire conversation?
> Done that, but will have to wait for another failure.
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cyrus events off by an hour

[Adam Tauno Williams]

I have -
delprunecmd="cyr_expire -E 3 -D 120 -X 120" at=0400
- so cyr_expire should run at 4:00, right?

But it runs at 5:00.  The time on the server is correct.  Could daylight
savings time change effect this?
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Re: ctl_cyrusdb questions, looking for answers

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> does anybody know, how ctl_cyrusdb works (how it should be used)? 

I've never felt very compelled to mess with the default:


checkpointcmd="ctl_cyrusdb -c" period=30


> I've 
> seen ctl_cyrusdb's man pages, but there is just few notes and nothing more.
> I assume ctl_cyrusdb is used (in /etc/cyrus.conf) to generate 
> "checkpoints" of the Cyrus databases, presumably those in /var/lib/imap.

Yep.

> The information that man does not provide is
> 1) Listing of database files "checkpointed"

I've always assumed all-of-them

> 2) Description of checkpoint format
>   a) "ls /var/lib/imap" suggest two sets of checkpoint database are 
> retained.

? Not following you here.  It checkpoints the databases,  not certain
what "two sets" of what your seeing.

>   b) Description of checkpoint configuration options, if any, to control 
> checkpoint sets
> 3) Checkpointed image backup requirements

I've always been very impressed at Cyrus' durability.  I think you could
restore a Cyrus database from a bit of rusty barbed wire.

> 4) Appropriate cross-references to utilities used to determine database 
> corrution requiring recovery procedure
> 5) Appropriate recovery procedure when invocation with "-r" vs. "-r -x' 
> is required.

Cyrus runs a -r when it starts to verify the database;  if that fails it
abends with log messages.  Most manual recovery/rebuilding is done using
the reconstruct command.
 
> It'll be really appreciated if someone could explain at least some of 
> these questions. Thanks
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Re: Delayed delete, restoring deleted mailboxes

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2009-03-17 at 13:26 +0200, Leena Heino wrote:
> What is the recommended process to restore deleted messages or mailboxes 
> when delayed delete is in use?

Use the unexpunge command;  the man page isn't bad, and I have examples
and some notes in the Cyrus chapter of WMOGAG
.
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Re: ctl_cyrusdb questions, looking for answers

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> > Not exactly sure what you mean here. I think you only need the database in
> > db.backup? and of course clean the environment before restoring such a db.
> AFAIK only that three databases are copied to the db.backupX directory. So if 
> there are other checkpointed dbs they stay in the original place and I need 
> to 
> backup them?

As I understand it: there is no reason to backup deliver.db,
statuscache.db, or tls_sessions.db.  You can dump those without
consequence and they will be rebuilt on the fly.
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Re: Question about CYRUS-IMAP and FETCH BODY[]

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Fri, 2009-03-20 at 12:32 +0100, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
> > The library we're using is:
> > http://www.codeproject.com/KB/IP/imaplibrary.aspx
> Looking at the documentation it strikes me that there appears to be no way 
> to actually list the contents of a mailbox. If those commands are really 
> the only ones that exist, the only way to use it would appear to be a 
> SearchMessage followed by a FetchMessage. If you don't do a SeachMessage, 
> you have no way of knowing what you can fetch.

I tried the CodeProject IMAP code awhile back;  it was pretty bad.  If
you need to access IMAP from .NET [which, oddly, support seems lacking
for such a common protocol] the LumiSoft.NET library is much better and
works reliably (even on Mono).





Unfortunately even the ongoing support of that assembly *feels* dodgy;
for one, it is pretty darn hard to find.  I'd strongly recommend
wrapping your IMAP server access is some class or interface so you can
replace the IMAP protocol provider without too much modification to your
app.
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Re: ctl_cyrusdb questions, looking for answers

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2009-03-24 at 17:18 +0100, Michal Hlavinka wrote:
> Hi,
> thanks all for the answers. Some summary what I know (please correct me if 
> I'm 
> wrong):
> 1) checkpointing
> "Checkpointed" are this databases:
> but only DBs with Berkeley DB-Engine it does something. So really 
> checkpointed 
> are:
> tls_sessions.db
> deliver.db
> statuschache.db
> ptclient/ptscache.db

Incorrect, the Berkeley DBs will be checkpointed.  What databases are in
which format is a site configuration issue.

> And checkpointing here only means sync and commit changes if there is a lot 
> of 
> them.

For Berkley DBs generally yes - for details see the Berkeley DB
documentation.  Skiplist files do checkpoint [rewrite themselves] but
not related to the checkpoint interval in cyrus.conf

> 2)backuping
> Backuped are only this databases:
> mailboxes.db
> annotations.db
> quotas.db
> there is no need to backup deliver.db, statuscache.db, or tls_sessions.db. 
> These can be rebuilt with no data loss.
> But what about ptclient/ptscache.db ?

ptscache.db can be discarded.  It is only a "cache".

> 3) "real" backup
> when I want to create "real" backup (for example for hdd failure) I need to 
> backup only
> mailboxes.db
> annotations.db
> quotas.db
> from /var/lib/imap (or from /var/lib/imap/db.backup1 ?) or something else?

I'd assume you also want user's SIEVE scripts.

> 4)check corrupted db
> There is no tool I can use to check if database is corrupted. I can only 
> check 
> logs for errors (will cyrus-imapd terminate or will it work with corrupted 
> database - so I can easily miss the error in the logs?). Can I use chk_cyrus 
> for this somehow?

You can export a database to a file format like flat.  That is useful
for consistency checking and for backups.

> 5) ctl_cyrusdb -r
> I'm not completely sure what is effect of ctl_cyrusdb -r (it's executed 
> always 
> when cyrus-imap is starting)
> This means that not committed changes (everything after last ctl_cyrusdb -c ) 
> are thrown away? Or it's just check "everything is ok" ?

I believe this relates to Berkeley DB databases primarily.


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Re: Searching for a Sieve web Autoreplier OR Outlook solution

[Adam Tauno Williams]

>I'm searching for months without success for either one of these solutions :
>a) Out-of-office (away) plugin for Outlook that would use Sieve ?

No idea.

>b) Web interface to manage an out-of-office message in Sieve ?

Horde's Ingo provides a very nice web interface for configuring various, 
including SIEVE, mail 
filters.   There is also the old (unmaintained?) SmartSIEVE application.

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Re: Multiple copies of cyr_expire running

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 08:13 -0500, Gary Mills wrote:
> I notice that there are two of these running today:
> $ ps -fp "$(pgrep cyr_expire)"
>  UID   PID  PPID   CSTIME TTY TIME CMD
>cyrus  2510   986   3 04:00:01 ? 219:28 cyr_expire -E 3
>cyrus 18280   986   3   Apr 27 ?1580:15 cyr_expire -E 3
> There are also lots of errors like this.  They refer to the same
> message over and over again:
> Apr 28 08:07:56 castor cyr_expire[18280]: [ID 264569 local6.error] 
> DBERROR: mydelete: error deleting 
> <200904201356.n3kdujes008...@taygeta.cc.umanitoba.ca>: DB_NOTFOUND: No 
> matching key/data pair found
> Should I kill one of the cyr_expire processes?  Is there a safe way
> to do this?  

I'd kill -15 both of them.  Then watch to see if they get stuck again.

> Is the duplicate delivery database broken?  Is there a
> way to fix it?

There is no reason to fix it; I'd just delete it.  You maybe will be a
couple duplicates but no big deal.
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Re: misterious duplicate message-id

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Thu, 2009-05-07 at 15:45 +0200, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:
> --On 7. Mai 2009 13:13:24 +0200 Gabriele Bulfon  wrote:
> > as a follow up to my "finding by message id" message, I found the reason
> > why that message was silently discarded: for 3 times that Outlook user
> > could send an email with the exact same message-id generated by Outlook!
> > How is it possible?!
> That's a known Outlook bug. I don't recall the precise circumstances, but 
> I've seen that again and again.

If you do a re-send in Outlook it seems to resend the *exact* message,
including Message-ID.  The "fix" for this is to use M$-Exchange 2000 SP1
or later;  their MTA (on the server) rewrites the Message-ID of the
submitted message to a unique value.

Someone told me there is an issue with re-using Message-IDs in the DSN
functionality too, but I've never seen that one.
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Re: misterious duplicate message-id

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> Or you can believe it's incompetence, but I don't, because Microsoft
> could afford to hire expert engineers and make it work right if they
> wanted to.

"Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence."  Or
in this case possibly indifference.  But from indifference to conspiracy
is a not a single step.  There is no cause to invoke conspiracy here;
at any software house the list of bugs and feature requests soon becomes
immense and things very often get solved in a non-optimal manner.
That's just human [and you don't make money by doing everything you can
afford to do,  the making money part comes in by doing somewhat *less*
than you can afford to do; that's just good business and what *everyone*
does].

And the constant conspiracy charges diminishes the credibility of the
community.



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Re: imapd locked

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> > It might well be that I hit the maxchild limit on imap, but that shouldnt
> > stall the complete imap, should it?
> Depends on what you mean. New connections to imapd block block indefinitely 
> until the number of processes goes below maxchild. If that's what you call 
> "stall", it's to be expected.

If connections are forced into a wait-state by a maxchild limitation is
this condition logged or any kind of notice raised?


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Re: Api for seen state, perl preferred

[Adam Tauno WIlliams]

> > I'm following a previous thread. I would like to be able to open a seen
> > skiplist database in order to verify if a particular user has red its mail.
> > If possible, a way to do that in PERL would be perfect.
> > Thanks in advance
> That's, um, tricky actually.
> You need to read the uniqueid of the mailbox from the cyrus.header file
> first, then read the contents of the skiplist file.  The easiest way to
> do that is `cyr_dbtool /path/to/seen/file.db skiplist get $uniqueid`,
> which will give you the seen record.  You then need to parse that for
> uniqueids - it's in the format:
> range,range,range
> where range is either a single integer or $low:$high where low and high
> are both integers - in which case all the messages in that range
> inclusive are seen.
> There's some other stuff in that seen record as well.  Here we go:
> [br...@imap3 hm]$ cat 
> /mnt/meta8/slot308/store23/meta/b/user/brong/cyrus.header | grep user.brong
> user.brong  6af857f64475158a

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place; but on my test server
(cyrus-imapd-2.3.11) my cyrus.header looks like -

estate1:/var/spool/imap/user/awilliam # cat cyrus.header 
Cyrus mailbox header
"The best thing about this system was that it had lots of goals."
--Jim Morris on Andrew
46a0a0b041114dce
Junk $Label1 $Label2 $Label3 $Label4 $Label5 $MDNSent NotJunk
receipt-handled $has_cal 
awilliamlrswipcda   

Is "46a0a0b041114dce" the id?

> [br...@imap3 hm]$ /usr/cyrus/bin/cyr_dbtool -C /etc/imapd-slot308-master.conf 
> /mnt/meta8/slot308/store23/conf/user/b/brong.seen skiplist get 
> 6af857f64475158a
> 1 1242810803 386716 1242800567 1:386615
> Looks like I've seen all my email!  Also notice 4 other
> fields at the start:
> 

 is an epoch time stamp?

I'm not clear on what  is; looks like it is a message id?  What
operation sets/updates the  value?  

> Here's a more interesting couple of folders to give you an idea
> of what ranges look like:
> 798b2df94146a5fe1 1095746485 1526 1095740252 
> 1:559,561:772,774:920,922:1109,:1115,1117:1138,1140:1170,1172:1195,1197:1521
> 798b2df9415762611 1125837870 34307 1123831223 
> 1:28289,29118,30871,31887,31935,32058,32209:32210,32214:32219,3,32228
> So - in summary.  It's not easy.  Some plumbing required...
> (lastuid gives you "\Recent" as per the IMAP flag - anything
> newer than that is recent!)

So any message with $id > $lastuid is "recent".



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RE: Cyrus + Sieve

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Fri, 2009-05-22 at 08:51 -0400, Gottschalk, David wrote:
> Well, this is interesting.
> I tested one of my reject rules (to make sure I'm not crazy), and it 
> replied the rejected message to my inbox, not to the sender.

What do the "Received:" headers of the message look like (how did it end
up in your mailbox)?

I wonder if this isn't some bizarre MTA (Mail Transfer Agent
[sendmail/postfix]) misconfiguration.  Have you verified that your IMAP
server can correctly send mail?  SIEVE sends mail using the executable
specified via the "sendmail" directive of the imapd.conf file.

> Is that normal behavior?

No, but I've never had any sieve/vacation issues on any of the various
Cyrus systems I've installed over the last decade.

> > I configured that option, and still no go.
> > How would it reply to reject messages without that option, but not
> > vacation?
> Sure, I missed the detail that reject works for you.
> Well, then I'm also out of ideas.
> If you want to make sure it has nothing to do with duplicate db, then you
> could stop cyrus, "mv deliver.db deliver.db.old" and start cyrus. Then try
> it again.
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RE: Cyrus + Sieve

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2009-05-26 at 08:52 -0400, Gottschalk, David wrote:
> Do you mean the From: header line?

No, the "From:" line is, as always, utterly meaningless.

> I have multiple "Received:" headers since the message had to transverse 
> multiple 
> servers to get to the Cyrus server.

Which is normal.  But they will show how the message actually got
processed;  most importantly who the message was addresses to by the
first server to process it.  I've seen people header/masquerade
rewritting rules do some weird stuff.

> What is the "Return-Path: " signify? I'm wondering if that
>  is the problem.

The Return-Path: specifies the reply address for any autp responders
(RFC3834).  It shouldn't matter for diagnosing your problem unless
something is rewriting the Return-Path on inbound messages [which would
be very wrong, and in your MTA, not in Cyrus].

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RE: Cyrus + Sieve

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2009-05-26 at 10:03 -0400, Gottschalk, David wrote:
> The Return-Path must be my problem them.
> Right now, any emails that come into dgot...@miriam have a return path of 
> that.
> So your saying the Return-Path should be the sender of the email, not the 
> recipient? Correct?

Yes,  your mail message (via the list) in by INBOX has -

Return-Path: 

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RE: Sieve: Vacation not working

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2009-05-26 at 09:21 -0400, Gottschalk, David wrote:
> See, I'm using this entirely custom deliver script in .procmailrc, and
> I think that is my problem. I think if Sieve doesn't get a proper from
> address, it will not reply. The question is how do you know if this is
> occurring?

Sendmail has been able to perform LMTP delivery (no "deliver" required)
for a long time.

> You might try different configuration options of that. I've seen searching 
> the web that some people had vacation reply issues with different 
> configurations of the Cyrus mailer(s).
> > How do you hand off mail from Sendmail to Cyrus? I'm thinking that could be 
> > my issue, maybe yours too.
> I'm using the cyrus feature
> define(`confLOCAL_MAILER', `cyrus')dnl
> ifdef(`CYRUS_MAILER_ARGS',,
> `define(`CYRUS_MAILER_ARGS', `deliver -e -f $f -m $h -- $u')')
> in the mc file, and as the regular sorting seems to work (moving certain
> mails to other folders e.g.), as well as storing incoming mail in the
> appropriate inboxes, I assume the Cyrus interface as such should be
> working fine, as well as the Sieve call ... what puzzles me is that I
> don't even see Sieve attempt to deliever anything, at least not locally
> - plus I can't seem to find any config file that would contain
> definitions about what to do with mails generated by Sieve (like, e.g.,
> what Mailserver to use)

This is specified in imapd.conf via the "sendmail" directive.


sendmail: /usr/sbin/sendmail
The pathname of the sendmail executable.  Sieve invokes sendmail  for
sending  rejections, redirects and vacation responses.
Note:  This Invoca RPM build uses /usr/sbin/sendmail by default instead
of /usr/lib/sendmail for sendmail.

sendsms: /usr/bin/sendsms
The pathname of the sendsms executable.  Sieve invokes sendsms for
sending  SMS  notifications.



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Re: Sieve: Vacation not working

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Wed, 2009-05-27 at 16:35 +0200, Carsten Hoeger wrote:
> On Wed, May 27, Garry wrote:
> > > Also, the logfile created by this line:
> > > [..]
> > > doesn't show up right away either ...
> > Actually, I just noticed that timsieved of course isn't even the process
> > responsible for doing any filtering, but only for doing the back-end
> > script stuff ... so I added the "-D" to the lmtpd line, which I _assume_
> > (please correct me if I'm wrong) is the process that actually should be
> > doing the sieve checking and processing ... anyway, there was no sign
> > that lmtpd attempted to do any sendmail interaction ...
> AFAIR the Mail headers must contain the addresses you specified in the
> vacation rules. Did you check that?

His [custom] delivery mech is rewriting/inserting a Return-Path: to
*himself* for *every* message.   So when this message arrives in his
INBOX the Return-Path will not be the sender (me) or even the list, but
his address (the destination).  That will break just about everything.

> Also keep in mind, that vacation mail is not sent, when sender and recipient
> are the same.



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Re: Cyrus APIs ?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> >   - IMAP protocol extensions (most needed thing would be to "idle" on
> > every folders, not just inbox)
> Yeah, good luck with that one.  It's a pretty major "protocol extention",
> and everything's very folder centric.  It would be a rather large SMOP
> (small matter of programming) for this.

What are you trying to accomplish?  Maybe just a notification of
delivery of a message to a mailbox via a socket would be helpful (so a
process could watch a socket at deal with notifying whatever client it
determines needs to be pinged).  We've been trying to figure out a way
to do push-mobile for awhile and this is a hurdle.  Funambol has a
service for that but it polls mailboxes (and needs to sign on as each
and every user to do so) which is a real pain [and pragmatically
worthless, IMO].  You can sort of hack something together with SIEVE
too.  But nothing is particularly elegant (although the information
below might be helpful).

> >   - custom authentification mechanism (for single sign-on purpose,
> > because kerberos doesn't fit everywhere)
> BYO saslauthd protocol daemon.  We have one written in Perl that does
> all sorts of clever.  Just put this in your imapd.conf
> sasl_pwcheck_method: saslauthd
> And have your daemon listen on a unix socket at:
> /var/state/saslauthd/mux
> You need to speak the saslauthd protocol, which is a packed string
> format.  We parse it in Perl like this:

Thanks,  this is really great info.


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ipurge and delayed expunge

[Adam Tauno Williams]

We use delayed expunge with a delay of 120 days.  

I was just playing with ipurge and it appears to 'physically' delete the
messages rather than just marking messages as expunged.  Is it possible
to have ipurge just mark messages as expunged rather than removing them?

Looking at the man page I assume not.

$ sudo -u cyrus /usr/lib/cyrus-imapd/ipurge -s -X -f -d 365
user.adam.sent-mail
Working on user.adam.sent-mail...
total messages   713
total bytes  7683241
Deleted messages 0
Deleted bytes0
Remaining messages   713
Remaining bytes  7683241
$ ls /var/spool/imap/a/user/adam/SPAM/  | wc -l
1703

$ sudo -u cyrus /usr/lib/cyrus-imapd/ipurge -s -X -f -d 5 user.adam.SPAM
Working on user.adam.SPAM...
total messages   205
total bytes  6493756
Deleted messages 130
Deleted bytes4143062
Remaining messages   75
Remaining bytes  2350694
$ ls /var/spool/imap/a/user/adam/SPAM/  | wc -l
1573


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Re: ipurge and delayed expunge

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Fri, 2009-06-26 at 12:35 -0400, Brian Awood wrote:
> This issue is fixed in CVS;
> http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/2009-March/030753.html

Sweet, it appears this patch is included in Simon's awesome RPMs!

cyrus-imapd-2.3.14-unexpunge.patch


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unexpunge Bus Error (signal 7) [Was: Re: ipurge and delayed expunge]

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Fri, 2009-06-26 at 14:43 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-06-26 at 12:35 -0400, Brian Awood wrote:
> > This issue is fixed in CVS;
> > http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/info-cyrus/2009-March/030753.html
> Sweet, it appears this patch is included in Simon's awesome RPMs!
> cyrus-imapd-2.3.14-unexpunge.patch
> <http://www.invoca.ch/pub/packages/cyrus-imapd/>

I've updated and ran ipurge.  ipurge ran without incident and seems to
have performed exactly as expected.  But now if I test unexpunge on some
of the mailboxes ipurge touched it crashes; other mailboxes seem fine.

sudo -u cyrus "/usr/lib/cyrus-imapd/unexpunge -v -l user.adam.sent-mail"
...
Bus error

A reconstruct works, but then none of the expunged messages appear (list
from unexpunge -l is empty).  Should a reconstruct loose expunged
messages in delayed expunge mode?

A backtrace from the core looks like -
...
Loaded symbols for /lib/libsepol.so.1
Core was generated by `/usr/lib/cyrus-imapd/unexpunge -v -l
user.adam.sent-mail'.
Program terminated with signal 7, Bus error.
[New process 9137]
#0  list_expunged (mailbox=0xbfa32874, msgs=0x8b63628, exists=6,
expunge_index_base=0xb6828000 )
at unexpunge.c:150
150 cacheitem = CACHE_ITEM_NEXT(cacheitem); /* skip envelope */
(gdb) bt
#0  list_expunged (mailbox=0xbfa32874, msgs=0x8b63628, exists=6,
expunge_index_base=0xb6828000 )
at unexpunge.c:150
#1  0x0804e326 in main (argc=4, argv=0xbfa34c74) at unexpunge.c:632

Environment:
Linux 2.6.18-128.1.10.el5 #1 SMP i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
gcc-4.1.2-44.el5
glibc-2.5-34
cyrus-imapd-2.3.14-8
autoconf-2.59-12
automake-1.9.6-2.1


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Re: Automatically moving marked mails?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Wed, 2009-07-01 at 14:48 -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote:
> At Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:35:15 +0200, Garry  wrote:
> Subject: Re: Automatically moving marked mails?
> > The point is not when decent MUAs are used, like Thunderbird, but rather
> > crap like Outlook ... which is unable to do a decent, logical handling
> > of deleted mails... ;)
> Decent MUAs are _always_ "available", at least to some extent.
> People who won't choose to use decent software when it is available and
> instead insist upon using broken crapware _must_ learn that they are on
> their own -- they are unsupported, they get no sympathy.

Agree.  Although I find TB's handling of deleted mail at least
equivalently retarded as Outlook.  Neither has a @*&^&$* key binding for
expunge!  In general IMAP in recent ($version>=2003) versions of Outlook
works very well.

> In this case though I'm not sure what the problem is (at least based
> upon this one feature -- groupware might be broken in other ways).
> > Problem is, $customer is using a groupware which - when using IMAP -
> > will display deleted or moved mails as struck-through mails, which will
> > no doubt confuse certain users ... therefore, it would be nice if Cyrus
> > could be convinced to have a special delted-mails handling ... as it is
> > close to impossible to change Outlook's handling ...
> Actually that's the desired way for an IMAP client to work!  (and the
> majority of the good ones I'm aware of do work that way where possible,
> though sadly not two of the ones I'm using at the moment)

Ditto.

> What could possibly be confusing about a summary index entry showing a
> message using a struck-through font face?  It should be self-evident to
> anyone with a gram of experience using any modern decent graphical
> computer user interface that the message has been marked as deleted.

Agree.

> Some MUAs which operate in this correct manner do confuse users
> sometimes by not handling the somewhat "un-natural" expunge operation
> automatically.  However I find it's very easy to teach users about this

Yes,  throw-in-the-trash vs. taking-out-the-trash.  Users grasp the
difference very quickly.  And I've had some dim ones...

> extra step by simply explaining to them that it gives them slightly more
> control over when they choose to release these marked messages from the
> the most immediate level of "undo" (or all possibility of undo if the
> MUA doesn't support the "move to trash" feature).

And with delayed-expunge they can call up the help-desk and even get
back messages they accidentally expunged.  Cyrus is awesome.


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Re: Automatically moving marked mails?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> It's true that the concept of delete/expunge is difficult for many new
> users to grasp. In my experience, the worst consequence is when users
> who delete but never expunge exceed quota and don't know why because
> deleted messages are hidden from view. A visual indicator (such as a
> strike-through, symbol, special color) is far more preferable, as it at
> least makes the problem evident. I agree that the whole process borders
> on the ridiculous, but that's a problem with IMAP, 

I disagree, I think the process is quite elegant; certainly simpler to
manage that a *&@(*@ Trash folder.  In delete/expunge mode restoring a
message (or many messages) keeps their original context whereas Trash
accumulates messages from potentially many folders.

> not Cyrus (and most
> users would probably clamour for similar functionality if the behaviour
> was removed).

Yep.

> In any case, users expect to control this in the MUA, so it's probably
> best to keep it out of the server.


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Re: Automatically moving marked mails?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> The kind of functionality you want could be achieved more elegantly and
> more usefully by implementing lemonade-imap-sieve (sieve-like scripting
> on the imap operation level, not only on delivery, see
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lemonade-imap-sieve-05).

That would be very useful; but I wonder about the performance
implications.  Has anyone (any server?) implemented this?

> Also, be aware that Outlook's IMAP implementation is commonly considered
> as being flawed, and behaving poorly on very large mailboxes. It goes
> better with Outlook 2007, or so I'm told, so YMMV.

I've had very few problems with $version>=2003.  It certainly is a much
better implementation than ThunderBird's.


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No -k option for cyradm's reconstrcut [Was: Re: unexpunge Bus Error (signal 7) [Was: Re: ipurge and delayed expunge]]

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Sat, 2009-06-27 at 10:06 -0400, Brian Awood wrote:
> On Friday 26 June 2009 @ 20:47, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> > A reconstruct works, but then none of the expunged messages appear
> > (list from unexpunge -l is empty).  Should a reconstruct loose
> > expunged messages in delayed expunge mode?
> reconstruct will remove the expunged data if you don't specify the -k 
> option, also if it's not able to verify the cyrus.expunge file as 
> valid, it will delete it and put all messages back into the index.  

I've verified this behavior;  with a batchreconstruct -rk everything
seems OK.

One note:  the "reconstruct" command in cyradm accepts a "-r" option but
not a "-k" option.

> I posted a patch to the dev list which addresses this and a couple of 
> other issues in reconstruct.  In this case it looks like the 
> cyrus.expunge file was corrupted since the expunge_index_base isn't 
> valid.  Possibly due to a previous issue with the expunge file.  


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Re: Automatically moving marked mails?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 09:25 -0500, Gary Mills wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 03, 2009 at 01:02:35AM -0400, Greg A. Woods wrote:
> > I really don't know anyone, neither amongst home-based users nor
> > corporate e-mail users, who truly believe they're better off with an
> > MS-Exchange server handling their e-mail, especially if they've
> > previously used a decent IMAP client connected to a Cyrus server.  Most
> > folks put up with it because they don't have any choice and that's
> > because their IT guy got a good free game of golf or similar from the
> > sales guy who sold him up the creek on using Exchange.
> There's pressure here too to move from Cyrus to Microsoft Exchange.
> It seems to be coming from administrators rather than students.
> Is there someplace an unbiased comparison of the two?  

No, I don't think the two are even comparable;  not because Exchange is
so terrible but because Cyrus is an IMAP server and Exchange is a Mail
Server & a collaboration platform (aka "groupware", which is a terrible
term).

> I see lots of
> negative reports about Exchange, but they mostly come from people who
> are using another product based on open standards.

I'm always amused at tech conferences how many of the pitches are for
products for or relating to dealing with Exchange and keeping it
running.


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Re: Automatically moving marked mails?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> I don't like these "all in one solutions", but the people here LIKE 
> THEIR OUTLOOK! Everybody wants to use Outlook and our students want 
> Google, they like Gogle! Safe harbour for personal data? not 
> interesting to this youth which even posts pictures of their drunk 
> parties on facebook :-\

Have you looked at the ZideOne plugin?  That provides pretty darn good
functionality and works with a variety of Open servers (via CardDAV,
CalDAV, and GroupDAV).  It will even work with straight up apache.


But storing contacts in LDAP is something nothing is every going to
support as LDAP schema is just a mess.


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Re: Automatically moving marked mails?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 10:40 +0100, Ian Eiloart wrote:
> --On 3 July 2009 14:09:19 -0400 "Greg A. Woods"  
> wrote:
> >> There's pressure here to move to Exchange because it supports Outlook
> >> better.
> > Take away Outlook in effect by giving them better and different open
> > source and open standards tools and that pressure is sure to go away.
> Suggestions? For an integrated email and calendar tool?

We use OpenGroupware (OGo) for our groupware backend.  It integrates
with Cyrus IMAP.  OGo serves as the backend for our corporate CRM and
the task workflow is used across the corporation for task management.
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Re: Automatically moving marked mails?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> > For an integrated email and calendar tool?
> After all these years I still fail to see what e-mail and calendar
> keeping have to do with each other.  It's lunacy to put them in the same
> tool.  Use the right tool for the job.

Because they are both about collaboration (communication) so users,
correctly, put them in the same bucket conceptually.  And clients have
been bundling this functionality for ages.

> Yes, doing scheduling and calendar maintenance requires communicating
> between multiple parties, but e-mail is _not_ the right tool for this
> kind of communications!
> Personally I'm still a big fan of centralization wherever it makes
> sense, and it especially makes sense when the model one is using to
> design an implement solutions to a given problem requires shared access
> to unified data.

A unified client makes sense because both mail and calendering require
an address book.  But the backends do not need to be so unified;
OpenGroupware [for example] delegates mail to IMAP/SMTP (Cyrus/any-MTA)
just about everything else is managed over GroupDAV/CalDAV/CardDAV
(HTTP) or some combination.  And vCards/vEvents/vToDos typically use
e-mail addresses as the identifiers of contacts/participants/executors.
This is a pretty typically arrangement.

> Perhaps Google Apps calendaring is the right tool for some folks.
> Perhaps Apple OSX iCal works well enough (and for those who insist on
> using e-mail to communicate calendaring information, well it just so
> happens that iCal does integrate with your mail reader to send and
> receive notifications and facilitates some basic ability to "share"
> events, but of course iCal also supports full management of proper
> central calendars too, as well as read-only subscriptions to centrally
> maintained calendars, etc.).

No, iCAL doesn't support "full management of proper central calendars".
CalDAV does, or GroupDAV.  Straight iCalendar is pretty useless as a
groupware solution as you can only operate on a calendar and not just an
event.

> Perhaps Mozilla's answers to calendar management would work for many
> folks too.  Mozilla even cater to those who can't seem to separate
> calendar management from e-mail in their minds with Lightning, but
> personally I'd stick with Sunbird if I were to use Mozilla's tools.

Lightning and Sunbird are identical.


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Re: Automatically moving marked mails?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

>> Ian Eiloart wrote, at 07/09/2009 05:39 AM:
>>> Except that the sieve server ought to be on the border MTA, so that the
>>> user can tell the server to reject the message at SMTP time.
>> That's not feasible for mail with multiple recipients.
> It is if your rule is to reject all email from a specific sender.

No, because the MTA either accepts or rejects a message [in  
connection].  If a message is sent to userX and userY and userX has  
SIEVE set to reject the message and userY does not then the MTA has to  
receive the message in order to deliver it to userY.  And the MTA  
would have to check every recipient's SIEVE script.  Then what about  
delivery to an alias that expands to multiple users?  Mail delivery  
just isn't that simple.




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Re: DBERROR with Cyrus 2.2.12

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> Would it be helpful to others, it is to me, to include the cited list message 
> below on that same wiki page telling others how to convert from one backend 
> to another?

Page 120 - 121 of my 'book' has an example of cvt_cyrusdb


Except I just noticed the statement "the server must be online when"
should be "there server must be offline when".  BUG!

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Re: how to exclude subfolder from expiration using annotations?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

> I'm currently trying to find out how to use cyr_expire in combination with
> annotations exluding one single subfolder per mailbox.
> I'm running RHEL5 with v2.3.7-Invoca-RPM-2.3.7-2.el5_3.2.
> What I did:
> . setannotation "user/test1001" "/vendor/cmu/cyrus-imapd/expire" 
> ("value.shared" "1")
> . OK Completed
> . getannotation user/test1001 "/vendor/cmu/cyrus-imapd/expire" "value.shared"
> * ANNOTATION "user/test1001" "/vendor/cmu/cyrus-imapd/expire" ("value.shared" 
> "1")
> . OK Completed
> Now I want to exclude the "Sent Items" folder from expiring, so I did
> . setannotation "user/test1001/Sent Items" "/vendor/cmu/cyrus-imapd/expire" 
> ("value.shared" NIL)
> . OK Completed
> But that does not work:

Correct.  And I've been meaning to post the same question for awhile
now:  How to have message expiration in a folder and *not* for its
subfolders - short of setting an additional annotation on each
sub-folder (which in our circumstance isn't workable as the user can
create additional subfolders).

> $ su - cyrus -c '/usr/lib/cyrus-imapd/cyr_expire -E 3 -v'
> expiring messages in user.test1001 older than 1 days
> expiring messages in user.test1001.Drafts older than 1 days
> expiring messages in user.test1001.Junk older than 1 days
> expiring messages in user.test1001.Sent Items older than 1 days
> expiring messages in user.test1001.Trash older than 1 days
> expiring messages in user.test1001.confirmed-ham older than 1 days
> expiring messages in user.test1001.confirmed-spam older than 1 days
> expiring messages in user.test1001.subfolder older than 1 days
> expiring messages in user.test1001.subfolder.subsubfolder older than 1 days
> expiring messages in user.test1001.subfolder.subsubfolder.subsubsubfolder 
> older than 1 days
> In the cyr_expire manpage I read:
> [...]
> The  value  of  the /vendor/cmu/cyrus-imapd/expire annotation is inherited by
> all children of the given mailbox, so an entire mailbox tree can be expired by
> seting a single annotation on the root of that tree.  If a mailbox does not
> have a /vendor/cmu/cyrus-imapd/expire annotation set on it (or does not
> inherit then no messages are expired from the mailbox.
> [...]
> I found no further resources describing how to achieve what I want.
> Is that possible at all?

My guess, is no.  FYI, purge exhibits the same behavior [as documented].
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Re: Reducing log verbosity

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Sat, 2009-07-18 at 19:45 -0700, Bryan Hill wrote:
> thanks!  I figured that might be the case after looking into this in
> more detail.

A better solution, IMHO, is to post-filter.  The filtering provided by
Syslog is pretty crude and requires bouncing the syslog service to
change.  If you use syslog-ng you can specify a pipeline as a
destination, either a command or socket, etc... so you can get much more
granular about what logs to keep and you can modify the logging level
without effecting the service.  If your mail host uses the old syslog,
which ours do, you can ship the logs over the network [syslog support
network logging, even the old one] to a syslog-ng log server where you
can play with the logs all you want.



> > Rebuild cyrus using a LOCAL syslog facility rather than MAIL.  We
> > use LOCAL6.  Then adjust the verbosity by adjusting the log level
> > in /etc/syslog.conf:
> > local6.info -/var/log/imapd.log
> > local6.debug  = most verbose
> > local6.info   = less verbose
> > local6.notice = even less verbose
> > ..
> > Bryan Hill wrote:
> > > Hello!
> > > I've been Googling for an answer, but haven't come up with any
> > > working solution.  I would like to turn down the verbosity of my
> > > Cyrus logs but have not been successful.
> > > I'm using the Invoca cyrus build (latest from the website) on
> > > Centos 5.3.  I've tried setting the  CYRUS_VERBOSE environmental
> > > variable but it seems to ignore any alue I put in.  I'm doing this
> > > in the init.d script.
> > > Any hints as to what I'm doing wrong?
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bryan

-- 
OpenGroupware developer: awill...@whitemice.org

OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @



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