Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Neil Bothwick wrote: > For example, Network Manager uses D-Bus to tell programs when > your Internet connection is available and not, so your mail > client goes into offline mode rather than pointlessly > trying to access your mailbox. Why should an MUA care about some local interface at all ? It doesnt say anything whether the server can be reached, it's nothing more than guessing, that *might* be fine for trivial setups but can cause big headache in more complex ones. For example: * LAN is up, but remote server is or LAN's uplink down, MUA wont learn about it this way * local mailserver is falsely considered unreachable just because the LAN interface went down There's no way around it: the MUA (or a local proxy) must always check on itself whether a _particular_ remote server is reachable and properly handling that. And *IF* some application is interested in the such information, why not just using the filesystem ? cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Alan McKinnon wrote: > Example: You have any old arbitrary email client. A mail contains a URL. > Click > it. The URL should open in your preferred browser, whatever that should be. > Please note that any email client should support launching any browser, > whether the dev built in support for it or not. Simply put a simple script in a defined, stardized location. Or use plan9's plumber. > Example: Notifications. I have 3 (yes, three!!) kinds of popups that show up > here daily. There's KDE's system which is the majority of them, some GTK apps > throw popups in the top right corner where I don't want them and them then > there's Skype which does it's own thing. God, you gotta love proprietary > sekrit apps . The solution is a notification service, apps send > their notifications to it and the service does whatever the user configured > it > to do with the notification. man 1 plumb > Just to bring this back to your original statement of Unix philosophy. IPC on > modern desktops conforms exactly to the Unix philosophy. On dbus, everything's a file ? cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells > a broweser or mail app that they are offline? use the filesystem ? guess what: I've got a filesystem (a tiny 9p server) which even lets me control the network interfaces. cu -- ------ Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Neil Bothwick wrote: > You're on a train, it goes into a 3G dead zone, your mailer hangs until > it times out, meaning you can't even read cached mails until that happens. Probably fix that broken MUA (or let it run via an caching proxy) ? cu -- ------ Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Alan McKinnon wrote: > You are assuming that smaller WMs don't need IPC. I believe that assumption > to > be false. If my belief is true, then your argument falls flat. Guess what, there are even very small WMs that have an IPC, and a very clear/portable/network-agnostic one: wmii uses 9P. > By way of example: printing. By no stretch of the imagination can printing be > considered to be a niche function. How will an arbitrary app find your > printers? There are multiple print server around. So, you could: lpr ? If it's interface is not enough anymore, invent a new one. Perhaps as a filesystem. 9P makes this *very* easy. > Multimedia buttons. One of the most confounding things on modern hardware are > multimedia buttons. Volume is easy - make it adjust the sound server. man 1 plumb cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Alan McKinnon wrote: > However. ELF is analogous (with the exception that you don't > have one or two binary apps), and nothing is stopping you from > building everything statically, or still using .a Actually, if libraries hadn't been grown that extremly fat, but instead using small tailored ones and moving the redundant complexity to their own services, we perhaps won't need it at all, but would be fine with small static binaries (which can startup much faster). cu -- ------ Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > KDE apps use PHONON, so they don't have to deal with the underlying sound > system. > KDE apps use SOLID, so they don't need to care about hardware, hot plugin, > etc. > KDE apps use dbus so they can share code and easily communicate. One thing I never understood about dbus is why does an IPC deamon depend on X ? And to phonon, why does an audio api depend not just on X, but also Qt ? cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
BRM wrote: > It does not exist so that Kmail can index all the files on the > system but for the opposite - so that Kmail can participate in > the search by allowing the system to be able to search _its_ data. Just to let me get the point right: kmail provides some kind of search/date integration driver into the semantic-desktop framework ? Why does this have to happen in a MUA ? Why not in an separate service ? cu -- ------ Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: >> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: >>> so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells >>> a broweser or mail app that they are offline? >> use the filesystem ? >> >> guess what: I've got a filesystem (a tiny 9p server) which even >> lets me control the network interfaces. >> >> >> cu > > great for you. And how portable is your little solution? On the front side, very portable *and* network agnostic. You can reach the server from practically anywhere (assuming fw allows it) as long as you can access 9P fileservers (in theory it should also be re-exportable through other network filesystems, even i didn try it yet ;-o). The backend side (the actual interface controll stuff) yet is linux-specific, but it can be easily adapted to other platforms. cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > startup time is not dependet on the size, harddisks are way Assuming you're using an harddisk (or another fast-enough medium) at all. > too fast - but symbol resolution. More libs, more work to > resolve them, longer startup times. Exactly. And that wouldn't be needed with static executables. Of course this could be minimized by proper prelinking techniques (some kind of JIT for dynamic linking ;-), but that's another topic for its own. cu -- ------ Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > don't waste your time - dbis is already there... dbus lets me access my network interfaces via filesystem ? cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > no, but with static exes you have to recompile everything > everytime a security bug is found. That's the job of the distro buildsystem. Ah, and that dramatically minimizes the chance that things break apart (i still remember the old times when libc updates tended to be dangerous). > Oh - and didn't you just complain about bloat? Nothing means > more bloat than static binaries. As already said, all this under the axiom that libs are *small* and complex/redundant things are done by separate services. Perhaps you might have a look at Plan9 and how its done there. cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > Another service? Yes, a service that will be started only on-demand. > Great - but then shut up about dbus. Who the frak are you to tell me shut up ?! cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > phonon: because phonon is part of qt? And qt is more than > just a toolkit? What is it then ? An own OS ? ;-o cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: >> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: >>> don't waste your time - dbis is already there... >> dbus lets me access my network interfaces via filesystem ? > > no, it is ported to different architectures. the only thing i have yet to port is the networking stuff. everything else is just plain ansi-c using posix APIs. cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
J. Roeleveld wrote: >> And *IF* some application is interested in the such information, >> why not just using the filesystem ? > > Because on flash-drives (Which are used in small devices and netbooks) you > don't want every single status update to be written to the filesystem. > And with minimal memory, I don't want to have a ram-disk gobbling up the > memory I have. Why not simply using tmpfs ? Or an specific synthetic filesystem ? 9P makes this really easy, and network agnostic. cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Mike Edenfield wrote: > Just for reference, 9p is not Plan 9, it's only the Plan 9 network > protocol/distributed file system, which you can use on Linux with the > appropriate file system modules. Right. Either you use the kernel module (which now is in mainline for quite a long time), or 9pfuse, or one of the userland libraries around (eg. libmvfs). The basic idea behind this all is to use a filesystem as a primary IPC interface. Files dont necessarily mean things stored on-disk, but streams/communication-channels in an hierachical namespace. (eg. /proc or /sys). This way you have a very simple IPC mechanism using the very same semantics as filesystems do traditionally. That's just consequently using the "everything's a file"-metaphor. As everything's a file, all an OS or an distributed environment has to provide is dispatching filesystem operations from client to server, whereever they may actually reside. For example, you can simply mount any Plan9 device via 9P, from anywhere, as long as you get some 9P path there. (BTW: 9P doesnt have the concept of ioctl()s. If some object has more than just a single IO stream, it's modeled as an directory, eg. containing some "ctl" file accepting additional commands, etc). cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Mike Edenfield wrote: > I'm kinda stunned that your arguments against D-Bus seems to boil down > to "just use 9p instead" No, we're talking about very different concepts. D-Bus is essentially an generic RPC mechanism (with an asychronous signalling facility). So it allows calling procedures on remote objects sending signals to listeners. IOW: fundamental concept behind GObject, QObject, etc put onto distributed level (but much simpler than CORBA, etc). On the other hand, 9P is essentially just a filesystem protocol which is very well suited for synthetic filesystems. The latter is the key point: synthetic filesystem. Instead of calling procedures, you model objects into directories and files and simply work with common filesystem operations. This is the same idea as behind procfs or sysfs, but on an distributed level. Hopefully, we agree that procfs and sysfs are a simple and easy approach for accessing many many kernel-internal data using very standard filesystem operations. Now imagine we hadn't them, but needed to use separate syscalls or netlink operations. Wouldn't it be ugly ? > given that plumber is a basic element of 9p and > does essentially the same job D-Bus does. No, plumber is an 9P-based service which does the message broadcasting/routing to listeners (easily programmable by an special-purpose language). Since it's based on 9P, it can be used anywhere 9P is available, fully platform independent and network agnostic. http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/plumb.html cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
[gentoo-user] Rethinking binfmts [WAS: How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?]
Alan McKinnon wrote: > Why is ELF so prone to bloat (or more accurately why do so many > compilers generate such large libs?) Yes, that's an really good question. ELF has many things, that are IMHO not really necessary or shouldn't even be used. For example, debugging information doesnt need to exist within the binary itself. An external file would be fine, too, and allows removing them by standard file operations. Another redundant thing is exec()'ing the dynamic linker from userland: the kernel could load it along with the usual segments. There could even be a default kernel-land dynamic linker (for the 99.9% cases where no special linker is needed), it could cache a lot of stuff. If I were to design a new binfmt, it would look like this: * Magic + file size + file hash * userland linker filename (may be empty) * 4x segment descriptor: -> packed-size, real-size, offset, encoding (compression,etc) -> #0: code, #1: data, #2: symbol table, #3: unused * imports-list: virtual library name + namespace-id * entry point (relative to code segment) * symbol table (possibly compressed) * [.. segment data ..] ... All binaries would be libraries (no distinction at all), everything's relocatable, entry points are executed in the from leafs to root of the dependency tree. cu -- ------ Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
[gentoo-user] silly daylight saving [WAS: Running xsane]
Peter Humphrey wrote: > Outside USA we have no illusions of saving time by adjusting our clocks. When it comes to politicians, I'm not quite that sure. Over here in Germany, there're lots of them who still believe in that insane idea of messing up the clocks would bring anything but useless hassle. I really wonder if there's some hidden lobby which benefits from this crap or it's really just stupidity ;-O cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
[gentoo-user] fat libraries [WAS: How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?]
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote: >> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: >>> no, but with static exes you have to recompile everything >>> everytime a security bug is found. >> That's the job of the distro buildsystem. Ah, and that dramatically >> minimizes the chance that things break apart (i still remember >> the old times when libc updates tended to be dangerous). > > and even better - just introduce a single patch/updated package and > everything > is fine. What you are describing is maybe nice with gentoo. But a nightmare > if > you want something stable. Recompiling everything is not an option. hmm, you consider Gentoo unstable ? ;-o > Why do you think the whole industry went away from static - except for tiny > embedded devices? Is that so ? Then, why are so many closed-source applications statically linked ? > no, under the axiom of sharable code. The size of a lib is not really > important - except if you use everything. But if you compile in > everything the lib does on a static basis, all your binaries are > huge and bloated. Yes, lazy page-loading, any maybe even lazy evaluation (uuh, tricky!), but this also comes with costs. Rethink the idea of tiny libraries: there's much more that can be reused. There're always not just reasons for choosing some particular library, but also ones for NOT choosing it. For example, imagine some app where a few of glib's functions would be useful, but there're other big arguments against it (eg. resource consumption, unstable API, etc). So we have to find that stuff we could have used somewhere else, or write it on our own. The major problem w/ these big libraries is that they're highly redundant from a function viewpoint. Why do we need dozens of libraries which all define such common ADTs like linked-lists, polygons, etc, etc, etc on their own ? Why can't they just all reuse other, small libraries ? At this point, I'm very much a Prof.Wirth's side: have one module per ADT, which only does that thing right, but nothing more. Don't forget that this is far beyond runtime memory consumtion. Memory is quite cheap today. But developer's manpower is not. When I review all the OSS projects (yes, commercial ones tend to be even worse) I've been involved in the last 15 years, I'd count at least 30% is completely redundant, completely useless spent resources. Just because bad design decisions. Just ask around the gentoo-devs how much time they spent into things like slotting, complex dependencies (conflicts, circular deps, ...), etc, etc. that's all caused by reallybad design decisions coming from the upstream. With clean sw design you'd never ever had to waste a single second on it. cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] silly daylight saving [WAS: Running xsane]
Dale wrote: > The only good thing, it helps some people remember to replace the > battery in the smoke detector. Of course, one could come up with a > better way of doing that too. Most of them beep for weeks when it gets > low, which is ironic since the beeping runs the battery down. o_O In our house, that's the job of my grandpa (former fire inspector). Of course he gets reminded by his speaking watches (yes, plural!) ;-o cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] silly daylight saving [WAS: Running xsane]
Neil Bothwick wrote: > What with their greenhouse gas emissions and insistence on their farmers > working at unearthly hours, those cows have a lot to answer for. When are > they going to start considering the environment? What frakk'in greenhouse gases ? Is anyone stupid enough to still believe in that synthetic religion of men-made-global-warming ? cu -- ------ Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
[gentoo-user] binary dependencies [WAS: libpng12 is missing]
* András Csányi wrote: Hi folks, > It looks like the libpng package makes problem for other's including me... :$ > http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=319029 IMHO this is a generic problem: when multiple slots exist, portage doesnt seem to know which slot/version of some lib a package was actually built against (that's also why we need things like revdep-rebuild). A clean and generic solution would IMHO be if that information is recorded @ /var/db/pkg/*. In case of some depenency exists in different slots, the installed binary package record also contains a dependency to the lib's slot the package was actually built against. This way, old versions/slots still in use should never be uninstalled. In another pass we could scan for packages which could be rebuilt against a newer lib version, or maybe have it as an new emerge option (like --newuse for changed usedflags). cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ -
Re: [gentoo-user] Anything better than procmail?
* meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: > > Hi, > > while still setting up my new system I wonder, whether there > somethning better than 'procmail' to process mails (maildir-format). > I am getting my mails via fetchmail/POP3. Is there anything you dont like in procmail ? cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ -
[gentoo-user] Atheros WLAN loosing link
Hi folks, my Atheros wlan (builtin, internal intenna) is regularily loosing link. Reproducible in various different networks. At home, my wlan ap is about 2 meter away (within the room), so link quality (currently 53) shouldnt be the problem. Does anyone know what could cause the problem ? # cat /proc/version Linux version 2.6.31-gentoo-r10 (r...@excalibur.local) \ (gcc version 4.3.4 (Gentoo 4.3.4 p1.0, pie-10.1.5) )\ #1 SMP Wed Jun 2 00:51:13 CEST 2010 # lspci -v ... 02:00.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR9285 Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) (rev 01) Subsystem: Askey Computer Corp. Device 7167 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 16 Memory at f600 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K] Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [50] MSI: Enable- Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit- Capabilities: [60] Express Legacy Endpoint, MSI 00 Capabilities: [100] Advanced Error Reporting Capabilities: [140] Virtual Channel Capabilities: [160] Device Serial Number 00-15-17-ff-ff-24-14-12 Capabilities: [170] Power Budgeting Kernel driver in use: ath9k Kernel modules: ath9k ... Jun 25 19:36:51 excalibur kernel: wlan0: no probe response from AP 00:23:08:86:d6:8f - disassociating Jun 25 19:36:51 excalibur dhcpcd[10182]: wlan0: carrier lost thx -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ -
Re: [gentoo-user] Questions regarding the usage of multiple locales
* Christopher Swift wrote: > Is it at all possible to set a locale, i.e. cy_GB to be the primary LANG > parameter but if there is no .po for cy_GB or the .po is incomplete to > use en_GB as a backup instead of the default en_US? gettext allows to specify fallback languages: http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html#The-LANGUAGE-variable Actually, I dont know if this works for your situation. Conceptionally, you want some kind of overlay. You could do this by a little script, which compiles several locales to a "virtual" one, eg. by creating symlinks or compiling to new .po files using msmerge: http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html#Updating BUT: these files would become dynamic data, which is not handled (eg. automatic removed on uninstall) by portage. cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ -
Re: [gentoo-user] p7zip-4.65-r1 considered obnoxious
* Arttu V. wrote: > On 6/20/10, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: > > For some reason, the latest x86 stable p7zip wants to force me to remove > > 'odbc' from wxGTK. This seems wrong, and I'm masking it out for the moment, > > but I'm wondering what justification there is. > > http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=267698 Yet another case of different packages bundled into one ;-p When looking at the rather complex ebuild, I'd claim that upstream is not well-designed (so distros have to do things which naturally would be upstream's job) ;-o cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ -
[gentoo-user] FYI: Rules for distro-friendly packages
Hi folks, I'm currently collecting a set of rules which upstream developers should follow to make distro maintainer's life easier. Comments welcomed :) cu -- ----- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ -
[gentoo-user] Portage tree from git
Hi folks, is there yet a way to get the portage tree directly via git ? IMHO this should be more traffic efficient than rsync in the long run (especially when syncing often). cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ -
Re: [gentoo-user] Safe to install libpng-1.2.44?
Hi folks, I think the libpng issue shows up a more generic problem: we IMHO dont have a way for recording, which version / interface of some version a package is built against. The need for things like revdep-rebuild also comes from that. I'm currently working on an generic design for that, some ideas: (of course, yet limited to C and similar languages ;-o) * libraries with (incompatible) interface changes should install their headers under some own versioned prefix * library imports should _always_ happen via pkg-config (dont use .la files) * pkg-config descriptors are extended to declare the API and ABI version and generation, so interface breaks can be determined automatically * the package management records which version of some imported library a package was built against (some kind of revdep-scan between compile and merge) * with that information the package management can do an smooth upgrade (w/o temporary breaks until revdep-rebuild finished) cu -- ----- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ -
[gentoo-user] zlib ebuild from OSS-QM
Hi folks,
here's an ebuild for zlib, which takes a fixed source from the
oss-qm project. it contains several fixes and cleans up ugly
hacks in the current ebuild (eg. directly sed'ing sources ;-o).
please refer my recent postings on details what the oss-qm
project is all about. just a few words: the main idea is to
solve problems at the source, provide generic downstream
branches (which get rebased onto upstream) instead of single
(often unncessarily distro-bound) patches.
cu
--
-----
Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
-
Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
http://patches.metux.de/
-
# Copyright 1999-2010 Gentoo Foundation
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2
# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/sys-libs/zlib/zlib-1.2.5.ebuild,v 1.2
2010/04/20 20:34:54 vapier Exp $
inherit eutils toolchain-funcs
DESCRIPTION="Standard (de)compression library"
HOMEPAGE="http://www.zlib.net/";
SRC_URI="http://pubgit.metux.de/download/oss-qm/zlib/METUX.zlib-${PV}.tar.bz2";
LICENSE="ZLIB"
SLOT="0"
KEYWORDS="~alpha ~amd64 ~arm ~hppa ~ia64 ~m68k ~mips ~ppc ~ppc64 ~s390 ~sh
~sparc ~x86 ~sparc-fbsd ~x86-fbsd"
IUSE=""
RDEPEND="!
[gentoo-user] [bugzilla-dae...@gentoo.org: [Bug 326991] Testing release of sys-libs/zlib-1.2.5.3 from unofficial sources (???)]
Hi folks, does he speak for all of you ? - Forwarded message from bugzilla-dae...@gentoo.org - From: bugzilla-dae...@gentoo.org Subject: [Bug 326991] Testing release of sys-libs/zlib-1.2.5.3 from unofficial sources (???) To: weig...@metux.de Reply-To: DO NOT REPLY Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 19:39:48 + (UTC) DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL. Also, do not reply via email to the person whose email is mentioned below. To comment on this bug, please visit: Clear-Text: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326991 Secure: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326991 --- Comment #4 from vap...@gentoo.org 2010-07-05 19:39 --- lemme clarify further: dont bother submitting ebuilds for any package in OSS-QM. we arent interested. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugs.gentoo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You reported the bug, or are watching the reporter. - End forwarded message - -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ -
[gentoo-user] [bugzilla-dae...@gentoo.org: [Bug 322157] [mail-filter/procmail] new ebuild + autocreate maildirs]
Hi folks, YFYI: yet another of my ebuilds kicked-down. It's an improved version of procmail, which automatically creates missing maildir directories. cu - Forwarded message from bugzilla-dae...@gentoo.org - From: bugzilla-dae...@gentoo.org Subject: [Bug 322157] [mail-filter/procmail] new ebuild + autocreate maildirs To: weig...@metux.de Reply-To: DO NOT REPLY Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 20:06:53 + (UTC) DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL. Also, do not reply via email to the person whose email is mentioned below. To comment on this bug, please visit: Clear-Text: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=322157 Secure: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=322157 ssuomi...@gentoo.org changed: What|Removed |Added Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution||WONTFIX --- Comment #2 from ssuomi...@gentoo.org 2010-07-07 20:06 --- The SRC_URI is pointing to something unofficial, so this is a WONTFIX. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugs.gentoo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You reported the bug, or are watching the reporter. - End forwarded message - -- ------ Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] [bugzilla-dae...@gentoo.org: [Bug 326991] Testing release of sys-libs/zlib-1.2.5.3 from unofficial sources (???)]
* Alan McKinnon wrote: > Where's the common ground to combine all of that into one repository? The > idea > is a pipe dream. Fairly simple: use different branches. Hopefully, several distros would aggree on a common base, but thats not mandatory. The main point is, that everything's done within the source, and the sources live in a common vcs infrastructure. cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] [bugzilla-dae...@gentoo.org: [Bug 326991] Testing release of sys-libs/zlib-1.2.5.3 from unofficial sources (???)]
* Willie Wong wrote: > What the heck is the OSS-QM? Already posted it to the list several weeks ago: http://www.metux.de/download/oss-qm-project-2010050101.pdf cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
[gentoo-user] revdep-rebuild + minimal output
Hi folks, is there an option to revdep-rebuild to only do output if it has something to rebuild ? This should be run via cron to notify me via email. cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
[gentoo-user] Update single packages w/o dependencies
Hi folks, is there an emerge option for building just a single package w/o its dependencies (if deps are required, it should fail) ? I'd like to set up an automatic update for certain packages, but w/o touching all the rest not explicitly given. cu -- ------ Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] [bugzilla-dae...@gentoo.org: [Bug 326991] Testing release of sys-libs/zlib-1.2.5.3 from unofficial sources (???)]
* Dale wrote: > I agree. Enrico, since you are working with ebuilds and trying to add > to the tree, you need to post on -dev. This list is for users trying to > get help with getting packages to install, work and how to work with the > programs they install. This list does other things to but that is the > basics of it. Since you are developing packages, or trying to, you need > to be on -dev. My idea is that some folks here (which are not @ -dev) might be interested, too. > You might want to find a well respected developer and discuss the way > Gentoo does things off of any list. If you're talking about things like continuing with epatches instead of git repos ... well, there's not much to say here. I'll continue doing it my way and offer my ebuilds to the world - everbody's free to try it or simply ignore it. cu -- ------ Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] Update single packages w/o dependencies
* Dale wrote: > Enrico Weigelt wrote: > >Hi folks, > > > > > >is there an emerge option for building just a single package w/o > >its dependencies (if deps are required, it should fail) ? > > > >I'd like to set up an automatic update for certain packages, > >but w/o touching all the rest not explicitly given. > > > > > >cu > > > > I found this in the emerge man page: > >--nodeps (-O) > Merges specified packages without merging any > dependencies. Note that the build may fail if the > dependencies aren't satisfied. > > > Is that what you are looking for? yep. thanks :) cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] revdep-rebuild + minimal output
* Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 06:52:35 +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > > > is there an option to revdep-rebuild to only do output if it has > > something to rebuild ? This should be run via cron to notify me > > via email. > > There is the --quiet option, but this doesn't remove everything. You > could try redirecting stderr and stdout to see what goes where, or just > pipe the output through sed. Right, -q still gives too much output :( I'd prefer letting portage do everything, instead of maintaining an additional wrapper ;-o cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gcc upgrade
* Mark Knecht wrote: > Oh, and besides liking the smell of fresh baked 1 and 0's in the > morning emerge -e @world was an easy way to solve my libpng problem. > Woke up this morning to a freshly baked Gentoo machine. Now we just need support for emerging fresh and hot coffee ;-) BTW: regularily emerging world could be a fine testbed. Maybe I'll set up an chroot or container for that on some idling boxes ... cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: mysql
hmm. perhaps you could move away /etc/mysql and /var/lib/mysql to some place, re-emerge the mysql package and so try if the fresh installation runs. cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] logrotate fails since a few days
* Helmut Jarausch wrote: > Hi, > > since a few days logrotate is failing due to > error: stat of /var/account/pacct failed: No such file or directory do you have the process accounting deamon running ? did you instruct logrotate to create this logfile if missing ? cu -- ------ Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] logrotate fails since a few days
* Helmut Jarausch wrote: > On 07/12/10 11:00:00, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > > do you have the process accounting deamon running ? > > No, and I've never done so. Thats why the logfile is missing ;-) If you dont have that daemon running (and so nobody write to that logfile), you could simply remove it from the logrotate config. (/etc/logrotate.conf and /etc/logrotate.d/*) > > did you instruct logrotate to create this logfile if missing ? > > > No, but how to do that? I have'ne found anything in the man file? Please check if there's an "nocreate" flag set for that logfile. cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
[gentoo-user] automatic wlan restart
Hi folks, I'm regularily loosing wlan link (not sure if its a driver problem or disortion in the local air) and so have to restart the wland interface quite often. As the box is also doing several automatic things (backups, etc), it's really ugly (eg. when I'm not on keys, at some point no backups can be made, etc). So I'm looking for a way to fully-automatically restart the interface when the link goes down. Of course, I could hack up some syslog parsing, which calls '/etc/init.d/net.wlan0 restart', but that implies the interface going down (iow: ipstack will report no route to destination network back to applications) for several seconds. Does anyone know an better solution, which just reconnects to the same AP w/o taking the interface down (maybe even buffer the packets while physical link down) ? cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
[gentoo-user] Increasing security [WAS: Rooted/compromised Gentoo, seeking advice [Solved?]
* Paul Hartman wrote: Apropos cracked machines: In recent years I often got trouble w/ cracked customer's boxes (one eg. was abused for SIP-calling people around the world and asking them for their debit card codes ;-o). So thought about protection against those scenarios. The solution: Put all remotely available services into containers and make the host system only accessible via special channels (eg. serial console). You can run automatic sanity tests and security alerts from the hosts system, which cannot be highjacked (as long as there's no kernel bug which allows escaping a container ;-o). This also brings several other benefits, eg. easier backups, quick migration to other machines, etc. cu -- ------ Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] Increasing security [WAS: Rooted/compromised Gentoo, seeking advice [Solved?]
* Mark Knecht wrote: Hi, >Since I'm not an IT guy could you please explain this just a bit > more? What is 'a container'? Is it a chroot running on the same > machine? A different machine? Something completely different? http://lxc.sourceforge.net/ http://wiki.openvz.org/Main_Page Unlike VM solutions like kvm, vmware, etc, these (OS-side) container implementations split off the operating system resources (filesystem, network interfaces, process-IDs, ...) into namespaces, so each container only sees its own resources, not those of the host system or other containers. That's essentially what's behind the "virtual private server" solutions offered by various ISPs. >In the OP's case (I believe) he thought a personal machine at home > was compromised. If that's the case then without doubling my > electrical bill (2 computers) how would I implement your containers? He would have several virtual servers running on just one metal. If the host system is not accessible from the outside world, just the virtual servers - an attacker could probably highjack what's inside the virtual servers, but cant get to the host system. cu -- ------ Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] Increasing security [WAS: Rooted/compromised Gentoo, seeking advice [Solved?]
* Bill Longman wrote: > Basically just run VMWare/Virtualbox etc and put the services in there. well, these solutions are way "bigger" (iow: more resource intensive), since they run a complete operation system instance within the virtual machine. > No, chroots are NOT the same. They run on the same system. well, chroots have not much to do with containers (even contains could be said to include chroot as a building block) - they just run certain processes with a different root directory (iow: these processes see just see a subdirectory as it would be the whole filesystem). that's nice for testing porposes or to isolate different kind of isolate programs/libraries (eg. use different libc's, ABIs or calling conventions, 32bit subsystems on an native 64bit host, etc, etc), but don't really add security. cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] Compressed Filesystem
Helmut Jarausch wrote: > Hi, > > I'm looking for a working and maintained compressed filesystem. > I'd like to use it for backing up my root and my /usr filesystems, > so that I can use rsync to keep it up-to-date. Perhaps you could try venti+fossil or git. cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Does Firefox call Google?
Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > "your browser will contact Google's servers when you visit a potentially > risky site. It will also periodically contact Google's servers to > download the most recent list of known phishing and malware sites" Yeah, they actually sell phone-home as "privacy". Is there an option to build without that crap ? cu -- ---------- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] "checking for working mkstemp....." taking forever
Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > I've encountered the same and didn't know how to solve it. I found out that > mkstemp was some standard C function so I remerged glibc, but that didn't do > the trick. Eventuella I restarted my installation. It as i686 with 32 bit > though. Did you change CHOST maybe? python folks can't write configure.in files (-> AC_TRY_RUN() causes headaches) ... that's also why it's not crosscompile'able ;-o file a bug to python folks, it's not gentoo's fault. cu -- ------ Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] Compressed Filesystem
Helmut Jarausch wrote: > On 3 Jan, Enrico Weigelt wrote: >> Helmut Jarausch wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I'm looking for a working and maintained compressed filesystem. >>> I'd like to use it for backing up my root and my /usr filesystems, >>> so that I can use rsync to keep it up-to-date. >> Perhaps you could try venti+fossil or git. >> > Thanks, but I haven't found venti or fossil in Gentoo's tree. > Are there any ebuilds around? plan9port > > Helmut. > -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: i...@metux.de skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
[gentoo-user] Nvidia users: please sign petition for open/free drivers
Hi folks, I'd just want to let you know there's an petition to NV on opening their driver code (or at least specs) to the free world: * http://www.petitiononline.com/nvfoss/ Please sign the petition and spread around this link. cu -- ----- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] NVidia users: The Nouveau project needs your help
Hello folks, the Nouveau project works on free/opensource drivers for the NVidia graphics chips. As NVidia continously refuses support to opensource community and keeps necessary specs secret, we are forced reverse engineer their binary-only drivers. This is an very complex and time- consuming job. The Nouveau project has developed an special sandbox for the binary drivers, which us allows sniff it's communication with the chip. Several test programs send specific commands to the driver and record what's send to the chip. This way, spare CPU time can be used for collecting important data - even for non-hackers. We like to ask all NV users to help us by regularily running this testing system. More information can be found on the project page: * http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FrontPage Please also consider signing the petition: * http://www.petitiononline.com/nvfoss/ cu -- ----- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Nvidia users: please sign petition for open/free drivers
* Neil Bothwick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:33:36 -0600, Marzan, Richard non Unisys wrote: > > > Keeping in mind that this petition probably might not work, I think > > it's a good idea to let Nvidia know how many people are interested in > > having free drivers. This might lead them to release information on how > > to write drivers for their hardware. > > The problem with this is that Nvidia license non-free code for use in > their drivers. They are not allowed to distribute the source, or other > information about the code, so they have two choices for Linux drivers: They could rewrite it step by step and release the rewritten parts to the community. At least the kernel module, it doesn't seem to be that complex (compared with the open code around it). cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] How to get my overlay into layman ?
Hi folks, could anyone please give me some hint how to get my overlay into layman's overlay list ? thx -- ----- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
* Dale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have been using Gentoo for about 4 or 5 years now. I to think Gentoo > has well, lost its way. It seems like a bunch of teenagers is running > it sometimes. They decide something then go back a few steps when they > don't like the results. ACK. I also have this bad feeling :( Even w/o looking deeper into the system, just as an "normal user's" view, it became worse in recent years. Lots of conflicts, breaks, feature deps/conflicts, etc. The amount of necessary hand-work and the need to overlay really increased at my site in recent years. Part of the problmem might be too many quick+dirty hacks, another part's the philosophy of taking evrything as it comes from the upstream. It's not trivial to get out of this ;-o One little step out could be the OSS-QM project (http://oss-qm.metux.de/) It collects fixes for a lot packages and makes them accessible in 100% automated ways. So in a way it can be seen as an kind of overlay against the upstream. Most of the patches are things that upstream's tend to forget but importand for fully automated builds (eg. proper relocation, clean feature switching, fixing buildfiles, pkg-config, etc) - they do NOT harm the core functionality. So exactly what the vast majority of distro's patches do, but in generic (distro agnostic) ways. In recent years, I've announced this several times, but nobody really interested in it. Maybe now the right time had come ? ;-o > Users seems to be the last thing on the higher ups mind. Yes, I also had such feelings when I was around @ -dev: It seemed I was disliked, since I was questioning some common dev practices and no being an official dev by myself, and I never would be allowed to become one, since I was disliked ;-O (So I left -dev and focused on my own overlay - not caring about the devs anymore). > I love my Gentoo but I would like to see someone step up and get some > things done and some decisions made, even those we may never know about. Actually, I don't think it's just some "strong leader" missing, but an lack of discusion culture between devs and "plain users". I'd see the role of Gentoo leaders more in an diplomatic mission than actual decision making. cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Quo vadis Gentoo [WAS: Daniel Robbins' come back ?]
* James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, > 4. Formalize a process where others (non devs) can build, store and > maintain ebuilds that are not blessed by the devs, so individuals > can easily share their work with the larger Gentoo community. Isn't this what several overlay projects (eg. Sunrise) are meant for ? IMHO, Sunrise suffers from it's size - lot's of smaller overlays could be the way to go. Maybe differenciate between bleeding-edge and production overlays ? AFAIK, the current overlay technique could be improved to make using *dozens* of overlays much easier. Some points I'm missing: per-overlay masking direct overlay selection when emerging. I'm using several overlays and I'd like to have exact control where specific ebuilds come from on updates. For example I have to change a few ebuilds from the main tree and take care that nothing get mixed up - updates from the main tree should not override older versions from my overlay, but I need to be informed about them. > If one choses such and ebuild there on their own. The gentoo devs > should develop a semantic where folks not officially part of the > devs can maintain a package or two, rather than making ebuilds for > obsolescence, unilaterally. Maybe a combination of overlays and proxy maintenance ? > 6. Provide resources to the gentoo-embedded group to assist them > in their efforts to assimilate embedded-gentoo into gentoo > so that lots of ordinary users can build and experiment with > embedded gentoo. Actually, as an embedded guy, I don't think that Gentoo (with it's current models) is really suitable for embedded systems (-> small devices, exotic platforms, ...). The concepts are fundamental opposite. For example, if you're not always crosscompiling within sysroot, you're seriously wrong for embedded systems ;-P I really doubt that it's really worth trying to make (current) Gentoo suitable for embedded systems, as major concepts are opposite and it would cause us big headache. BUT: I really think that an major distro like Gentoo should cooperate with embedded folks in an meta project like OSS-QM. For example, most of the collected patches could be a bit more generalized and then go to OSS-QM, while Gentoo could get it's directly from there. cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Quo vadis Gentoo [WAS: Daniel Robbins' come back ?]
* Hemmann, Volker Armin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, > that is one of the most stupid things I ever read on this list. So users > should never be part of discussions? Their needs? Their opinions? well, that's what essentially told to me on -dev before I left there ;-O Maybe it's just an communication problem: devs are usually people who have much deeper knowledge of the whole system (or maybe just their packages) and also different needs than arbitary users. The tendencies of chasing away users might be an kind of self-protection against the "more (end)user friendly" points of view found in other distros (eg. SuSE). > Also, drobbins continued his attacks even after explained SEVERAL times that > the stuff ciaranm was doing was a) wanted and b) helpfull and c) supervised > by devs. Without knowing the details, both parties might have their (subjectively) valid reasons (speaking of the ideas/concepts, not the way they've been expressed ;-o). Maybe the whole project should be more modularized, so forking becomes much easier and still doesn't produce too much duplicate works. A few ideas: * bugfixing on individual packages should happen directly in the upstream (maybe with OSS-QM as "source overlay"), not in Gentoo itself. * package's build/install logic should be entirely moved into the package (so that ebuilds mostly do nothing more than calling the package's build system) * the QM process could be split into several parts: a) per-package (distro agnostic) b) per ebuild (aka the package w/ portage) c) the ebuild within (official) Gentoo On a quick view this looks like a lot more work, but in longer terms it would reduce the overall work (including dozens of other distros around the world). cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] building with off_t set as long long
* de Almeida, Valmor F. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, > Would anyone know whether it is possible to emerge a package setting > off_t as long long? > > The particular case is the library gdbm. The default emerge sets off_t > to 4 bytes therefore file sizes can only be about 2GB. Setting off_t to > 8 bytes would remove this constraint. I suspect, this list is the wrong place for your question. You should go either to the upstream or the OSS-QM project ;-P * http://freebc.metux.de/groups/oss-qm cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Online bookmark keeper with good merge routine
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What about Google Browser Sync? > > > > http://www.google.com/tools/firefox/browsersync/ > > What about across browsers other than firefox? Like Konqueror or > opera. > > Anyone with experiece using some online bookmark manager that stores > and merges bookmarks regardless of what browser is in use? Those things should be done by sythetic filesystems. Actually, I'm currently working on this. * http://freebc.metux.de/boards/9forge/filesystems/159 * http://oss-qm.metux.de/index.php/9forge/bookmarkfs cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'd hazard a guess that you may have hit a bigger problem than your > comment indicates. I'm pretty sure there would be great pressure to > use `quick and dirty hacks' to get stuff done when devs are nearly > always overworked. Actually, they IMHO *are*. Look at the large amount of patches in the tree and the uncountable discussions which are not gentoo specific. And the same happens also in other distros. An really large amount of work could be done easily outside specific distros, but in an more general way. But as long as the devs refuse cooperation with such distro-agnostic (meta-)projects like OSS-QM, there aren't much changes for it becoming better ;-P > > One little step out could be the OSS-QM project (http://oss-qm.metux.de/) > > It collects fixes for a lot packages and makes them accessible in 100% > > automated ways. So in a way it can be seen as an kind of overlay against > > the upstream. Most of the patches are things that upstream's tend to forget > > but importand for fully automated builds (eg. proper relocation, clean > > feature switching, fixing buildfiles, pkg-config, etc) - they do NOT harm > > the core functionality. So exactly what the vast majority of distro's > > patches do, but in generic (distro agnostic) ways. > > The theory sounds very sensible. > After looking at that page and some of the links briefly it wasn't > clear to me where this is being used. I see a very short list of pkgs > being worked on.. and guessing it is because of being short handed > there. There's not documentation yet. Feel free to join the maillist/board and improve it ;-) > But what wasn't clear is how work comes in and where it goes when it > goes out. Well, everyone is free to join the project as an "vendor". (vendor = someone who supplies code). Each vendor has it's own namespace, for patches as well as patchsets (patchset = list of patches for an specific version of an specific package). You can see the bunch of patchsets from some vendor as an kind of overlay against the upstream. Combined with CSDB you can fetch source + patchset for an specific package in an specific version completely automatically. > PS-The `help' link under `navigation' brings up what appears to be > something it is not intended to, and may even be a hack on those pages > or something. (The content that comes up may even be sort of off the > wall.) The usual wiki vandalism :( cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Speed up with pbzip2 or not!?
* Florian Philipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi folks, > On Sun, 2008-01-27 at 11:40 +0100, Justin wrote: > > Is there a way to use 7zip for decompression with emerge? > > I fear, no easy one. Of course, since emerge is just a python script, > you could rewrite it but 7z-syntax isn't compatible with bzip2 or > gnu-tar so it will be some work. I also tried to use star as a drop-in > replacement for gnu-tar, once. Didn't work well although their syntax is > nearly identical, but just nearly... Why not an universal wrapper script ? maybe something like: magic-uncompress [-t ] [-c] [-o ] This script could try to find out the input format automatically (the optional -t parameter allows to explicitly specifiy the format) Once we have this script, ebuilds could be rewritten step by step and no one (else than magic-uncompress) has to care about the actual commands behind. Some could be done w/ tar and zip, etc. cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Freenet overlay
Hi folks, I've collected a few ebuilds for freenet (encrypted p2p web) and now creating an own overlay for this. If anyone's interested in it, please let me know. cu -- ----- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Freenet overlay
* Marc Redmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I've collected a few ebuilds for freenet (encrypted p2p web) > >and now creating an own overlay for this. > > I don't know if it is the most recent version of freenet but you can > find freenet-0.7_alpha_pre1104 in the sunrise overlay. Meanwhile I'm working on my own overlay, including also Frost. I's almost finished. But one problem I still have: "java -jar" seems to ignore the classpath, so I have to hardcode the imported jars into the manifest. That's really mad. Maybe someone's got an better solution ? cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Looking for Gnome-Panel mixer applet
Hi folks, I'm looking for an small gnome-panel mixer applet (alsamixergui is IMHO too inconvenient for just quick volume chaning ;-o) Maybe somebody has an suggestion ? thx -- ----- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] OT: Mixer filesystem
Hi folks, I'm currently developing an synthetic filesystem for audio mixer control. It does all the OS/driver specific stuff within the fileserver, so applications can acces the mixer settings in an completely platform agnostic and network transparent way: http://j.metux.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=50 Maybe some of you's interested in it ? cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Looking for Gnome-Panel mixer applet
* AJ Spagnoletti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Have you tried using the mixer provided by the gnome-applets package. > It is a simple speaker that you can click that allows you to adjust > the master volume with a simple slider. Took a hell long time for building ... the dependencies are insane ;-o When I tried to start it, terminated immediately, nothing more happened. Ergo: unusable :( cu -- ----- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Mixer filesystem
* Iain Buchanan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > interesting, yes, but what's the point? (not saying it's useless, just > that I missed something). What would I use it for? For a better understanding I'd suggest a bit research on Plan9 ;-P In Plan9 everything runs through filesystems (even more than on *nix). Instead of large applications and dozens of frameworks we have fileservers for many things, even the windowing system is accessed via the filessystem. So filesystem trees (accessed via the 9P protocol) are the universal IPC. This makes the whole thing completely network transparent and platform agnostic. The MixerFS is one of the puzzle pieces. It provides an easy to use interface for applications which want to control mixers. So (once the apps have been ported ;-P) there's no more dependency to any platform specific stuff and the whole thing is immediately network transparent. One of the next steps is an audio io filesystem, which replaces things like esd or jack. I'm also currently moving out several things from mozilla to their own fileservers. cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Mixer filesystem
* Jason Dusek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Enrico Weigelt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm also currently moving out several things from mozilla to > > their own fileservers. > > What kinds of things? * profile data, eg. bookmarks, secrets, addressbook * plugins * mail/message storage * url access * download manager * remote facility ... cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] How do I get the x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-1.0.8776-r1 back?
* Daevid Vincent <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Okay I followed the Wiki as instructed to the letter. Same EXACT problem. It > all seems to go fine, but I get a black screen when X starts. Not like a > back-lit one either. Like "power off" black. I know X is running, I can see > the processes, and it doesn't seem locked up either. I just can't see > anything. At least your box's still running - that's an big improvement. On my box, each version I tried produced an complete lockup - even didn't need to start the Xserver for this. Obviously the kernel module is heavily broken. Debugging it showed up several strange things, like direct jumps into data areas (sometimes even static text strings), etc. Perhaps an similar issue like w/ Skype: they prefer investing their dev resources into code obfuscation instead of providing an stable product ;-O All this leads me back back to the conclusion I already had about 10 years ago: *NEVER EVERY* buy Nvidia cards. (I've made the big mistake buying an notebook with NV graphics, so I even can't replace it :(() cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Nvidia GeForce Go 6800 and nvidia-drivers ==> Cannot switch to ttys or close X
* Patric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > andrea wrote: > >... > >The X session loads smooth with no errors and no warnings but after X is > >loaded there is no way to come back to the framebuffer console (pressing > >CTRL+ALT+F* or closing the session). > > > >I get an almost white screen with some distorsion. If I come back > >pressing CTRL+ALT+F7 I see my X session up n running. > >The same happens if I close my session and then write "startx" on the > >white screen. I have a brand new session running with no problems and no > >errors. > > I'm afraid I can't provide any help on this, but wanted to mention that I > experience exactly the same behaviour with my GeForce Go 6800 (TurboCache). > And this is not only for the current driver, but has been the case ever > since i > own this notebook (it's an Acer Travelmate 4150LMi). The nvidia driver > version > at the time I got it was 1.0-7184, and was already broken back then. > I would really love to see a solution for this, since not being able to > leave X > is pretty annoying. > I should mention that on this system I have Debian installed, and used > kernel.orgs vanilla kernel + nvidia driver from their homepage ever since. You're talking about the NV's secret-code driver ? It makes heavy trouble with fbdev. Both together monst likely won't work. That's because they refuse to use the well approved DRI interface and do something completely own and obfuscated. Nobody outside of NV can really help you :( cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Status of Gentoo
* Jamie Dobbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, > I've been away from Gentoo for the last year or so and using Ubuntu but > find that I want to return to Gentoo simply because of the level of > customization that I can do with it. wb :) > However, I do have a few worries - why has there been no 2007.1 release > (there was a 2006.1 from what I recall)? Actually, I never cared about these "releases". IMHO they're just profiles. portage keeps your system up-to-date by fresh ebuilds. For a fresh installation I always take the newest profile and older systems are migrated from time to time. Never felt the need for an immediate profile update. > There also appears to have been a bit of turmoil in the Gentoo > 'management;' - has this affected the long term viability of > running Gentoo? AFAIK, this only affected the foundation, which is just an organization which does some "business work" (eg. marketing), collects funds for server infrastructure, etc. The Gentoo project itself doesn't *need* it, it just makes some things easier. I've never felt any impact on the distro by these troubles. (but that's just my personal oppition) > Also I'm not running at Athlon X2 system, ifs there any _real_ > advantage to running AMD64 or should I still to x86? > Just a few questions before I plunge in to it again :-) My personal taste: only useful if you need more than 3GB per process (1GB virtual address space is reseverd for the kernel, but this could be changed within the kernel sources) or for bumber crunching, maybe also in some database workloads. The key point: on an 64bit system, CPU traffic is 64bit width, so CPU's IO is faster, but this (normally) implies also 64bit code alignment, which can waste a lot of memory. BTW: some applications can use 64bit ops for specific things even on an 32bit base system (but this has to be done with caution, just like any other CPU specific optimizations). cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Nvidia GeForce Go 6800 and nvidia-drivers ==> Cannot switch to ttys or close X
* 7v5w7go9ub0o <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Help, please! I'm thinking of building a new box: asus p5e/intel core2 > quad. I had thought of getting an NV. Would ATI be the better choice? My personal advise: #1: do NOT buy NV cards. you'won't get ANY free and stable 3D support for them in reasonable future (maybe they learn in several years, but this would probably too late for you) #2: look very carefully for which cards ATI has published their specs (not sure if they did it for all). for those you've got very great chances to get an good driver in very near future (even it might not be perfect right now, but the community can and will improve it fast). I did the mistake just looking for 2D before buying my current notebook (if I had known the lack of 3D support, I had never bought it) :( cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Nvidia GeForce Go 6800 and nvidia-drivers ==> Cannot switch to ttys or close X
* andrea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well, I don't use any login manager, so when I close my X session I'd > like to be back in a working console. > > This behavior also gives me problems in the hibernate/resume process, > because I cannot see what's really happening during that time. One of the many situations where the proprietary drivers make trouble. And I wouldn't assume NV will be investing reasonable development resources, since the armany guys cannot "measure" the benefits in their excel spreadsheets. > I'm guessing if there is alternative driver that gives Nvidia 3D accel, > (like for ATI I can use radeon instead of fglrx). AFAIK, the free driver has no real 3D support yet. But there's the Noveau project, which examines the proprietary driver's behaviour and collects information for driver development. > I don't care too much about performance (no desktop 3D effects or > composite are needed) and I'm not a game player. BTW I'd like to have > applications requiring 3D (such as googleearth) just working. Me too. Maybe a software renderer would work fine, but I didn't really tried to set it up yet. cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] dev-java/asm versions nightmare
Hi folks, while trying to set up hibernate (the java persistency tk), I ran into lots of trouble with the asm package. Deep within the dependency tree, there are several totally incompatible versions of asm pulled in. While build runs cleany, everything crashes on runtime. Further investigation showed that totally incompatible branches (at least 2.0 totally breaks the interface introduced by 1.5 !) are living in the same namespace. Several packages depend on different branches (via different slots), so it's obvious that this ends in fire. Seems the certain people at INRIA+FR are just a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the great revolution comes ;-P This is yet a nother good (bad) example that slot'ing has the strong tendency to make things even worse than they already are (if not used with *extreme* caution). I'm currently in the process of resolving this issue by completely forking off the these branches into their own packages, with their own namespace, and porting client to the forked packages. As long as the specific asm interfaces aren't used within client's exports, this should be quite easy. Please drop a note if you want to be kept up to date on the issue. cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Skipping static libraries
Hi folks, is there a way for telling emerge that it should NOT install static (.a) libraries ? thx -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skipping static libraries
* Alan McKinnon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A long time ago I read a HUGE thread on b.g.o. about this, the eventual > conclusion is that after installation of a lib, a user might well want > to link those libs statically and if they are not there, portage will > barf big time and has no way to recover or even know what went wrong. > Then the poor user sits in mystery wondering which package to remerge > to get the .a Well, if there was an optional useflag (ie. "staticlib") which is turned on by default (or maybe "nostaticlib"), I don't see any problem. Most people will leave them enabled, only who are sure about this will disable them. BTW: this leads me to another issue, which goes aroud in my mind for a longer time: packages should be split off into several "stripes" in the binary output. Other packages then could depend on single stripes at different levels. For example: if some package foo requires libbar, it would only depend on the buildtime stripe(s) for building (eg. so headers get pulled in), while at runtime it will only depend on the runtime stripe(s) of "bar". There could also be separate stripes for certain locales, docs, examples, etc. Such an approach could be really useful for binary-only targets (which don't build themselves) and network installations (eg. arch-dependent and -independent stripes could be installed separately). > Ubuntu can get away with this, the user gets what the packager feels > like giving them, our users have *much* more freedom. I don't have much experiences w/ Ubuntu, but AFAIK this is an binary- distro. Those distros usually split the (binary) output into two separate packages, eg. "libfoo" is only the binary library, while "libfoo-devel" contains all the buildtime stuff (*.h, *.pc, ...). While this approach is quite simple, it's not very flexible and does't allow finer granulation (eg. separating locales, etc), but requires great care for filing dependencies. > What's your reasoning for wanting to do this? a) saving space / skipping unused stuff b) preventing accidential static linking. While working on PHP and IMAP c-client, I discovered a broken libc-client.so* installation (turned out that just a symlink was missing). PHP always tried to build in the static library (since .so wasnt found), which leads to missing deps (eg. crypt,pam), after I removed the explicit deps within PHP. The whole issue began with PHP breaking at this point after I rebuild evrything w/o pam. PHP explicitly links in pam and crypt for IMAP c-client if it finds them. Obviously an dirty hack around libc-client's extremly poor engineering. cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] expat upgrade, kdelibs: circular problem?
* brullo nulla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So I equeried dcopidl, and dcopidl belongs to kdelibs itself! > > What does it mean? Simple: KDE folks still aren't confident with the concept of modularity (even it's an standard pattern since about 50 years) ;-P BTW: if libexpat.so.0 was there before the update and now isn't, there's an major bug in expat (either the ebuild or the source). I don't know if the Gentoo QM policies say that those bugs have to be fixed or relying on the revdep-rebuild workaround is enough. In the first case, you should file a bug. Otherwise could leave it out to save yourself from personal rants ;-o cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] graphic card driver status
* Florian Philipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm thinking about upgrading my parent's PC's graphic card because I > have driver issues with their old Nvidia GF-2 MX which prevent me of > using the closed source driver. Try to sell it to someone who's dumb enough to take it ;-O > Now I want to ask: What's the status of the ATI drivers? Does the free > driver support 3D-acceleration on newer cards? Is the closed source > driver still such a pain to setup? Proprietary drivers always suck. I'd suggest not wasting time with them. For the status of the free drivers, you could ask the Xorg folks directly. > How about VIA or Matrox? No idea about matrox, but via always worked fine for me. cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] expat upgrade, kdelibs: circular problem?
* Alan McKinnon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tuesday 18 March 2008, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > > BTW: if libexpat.so.0 was there before the update and now isn't, > > there's an major bug in expat (either the ebuild or the source). > > There's no bug in expat, the OP is doing an *expat*upgrade*, which > means that libexpat.so.0 was there before and libexpat.so.1 is there > now. Thus any app that links explicitly to libexpat.so.0 is now broken. If an upgrade breaks primary things, it's simply broken. You can now choose, whether the bug is expat or the ebuild/portage. > 2. Something like revdep-rebuild that scans the system looking for > errors and is triggered manually by the user. This is also ugly and error-prone. After every slightest upgrade you have to fear nothing's running anymore and everything has to be rebuilt first. If downtimes don't matter, fine. But for critical systems, this is very dangerous. Why not modeling/storing the *runtime* dependencies and doing an *clean* MVCC ? Isn't this what slotting was meant for ? ;-P > Imagine using a binary distro where the packager didn't > pick this up and you are left stranded with no easy way to fix it... Then the package manager's obviously broken ... cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Power supply or motherboard dead?
* Joe Menola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Quite possibly your cpu and/or cooling fan. To test this...pull your current > units out, hook-up a known good fan (without any cpu) and apply power. > If the fan spins, you've isolated your problem. Depends on the board type. I've already seen boards which didn't even turn on the fan if there's no CPU present. cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] HELP! partition table is corrupted
* Florian Philipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Try testdisk. It's ncurses-based and easy to use. It saved my sorry arse > twice. ACK. If *just* the partition table is lost, but no damage inside the individual partitions, testdisk can easily reconstruct it but looking for superblocks (even w/ FAT). Used it several times successfully. Testdisk folks did a great work :) cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] HELP! partition table is corrupted
* Stroller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >- is the photorec able to search data in this partition table > >corruption level? > > Read the tool's homepage. But I'm pretty sure it just looks at the > bits on the drive and saves any collection of said bits which match > specification for a jpeg, doc &c file. I.E. no remaining filesystem > is needed, it does exactly what you need (although filenames aren't > preserved. I don't know about the other suggestions, so they might be > worth trying first. Yes, photorec is an completely different thing. It scans through all blocks on disk and tries to find out what kind of files they might belong to. This way you can reconstruct a lot of files if you lost the fs' metadata (which can happen easily on FAT :(). But this is an heuristic, not an stable approach. So you have to look through all reconstructed files if they're really okay. If just the partition table is broken, you shouldn't play with this - use testdisk instead. cu -- ----- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] defect management block device
Hi folks, does anyone know an (virtual) block device which can do automatic defect management (if the underlying disks have badblocks) ? My idea goes like this: * one or more devices are assigned to one block device * a bunch of spare blocks are reserved for defect management (so the device looks smaller than the sum of assigned disks) * if an badblock is detected, it's automatically remapped to an spare block In fact, just what drive-internal defect manangement does, but at OS / driver level. cu -- ----- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?
Hi folks,
from an "typical" SME view (mostly workstation and fileservers)
I don't really see an performance difference worth thinking of
(as already stated, there're lot's of other bottlenecks, like
storage IO).
AMD tends to win this battle by price, but Intel tends to be a
bit more rubust: I'm still running a bunch of P3 boxes and never
get an CPU killed, but Athlon's ("plain", not notebook variants)
can be easily burned by improper cooling. But with an good cooling
(eg. NOT using cheap gel beared fans), I don't see major problems.
So for most cases I personally prefer AMD simply by costs.
BTW: I'd really interested in experience reports about completely
different architectures (eg. RISC based).
cu
--
---------
Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
-
Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
http://patches.metux.de/
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[gentoo-user] 1/2 OT: What Linux could learn from mainframes ?
Hi folks, after reading several articles about Mainframes and similar archs (even ancient ones like B7000), I wonder if Linux world could learn something from there. One very interesting point (IMHO) is the storage abstraction. AFAIK, Mainframes work on one large virtual memory (disks for swapping out RAM, tapes for swapping out disks, etc). This way you just allocate some piece of space (like some virtual partition) to an application (of guest). If you need more space, just plug in more disks and the OS will handle all this automatically. I'm currently planning to implement an similar approach for Linux (at least virtual block devices). What do you think about this ? cu -- ----- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Error emerging gtk+ Pango not found (expat issue or not?)
* Patrick Holthaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Gentooers! > > I don't know if I am facing the expat issue or not. gtk fails with the > following error message: > > > checking Pango flags... > > -I/usr/include/pango-1.0 -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include > > -I/usr/include/cairo -I/usr/include/freetype2 > > -I/usr/include/libpng12 -I/usr/include/pixman-1 > > -lpangocairo-1.0 -lpango-1.0 -lcairo -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -ldl > > -lglib-2.0 > > configure: error: > > *** Can't link to Pango. Pango is required to build > > *** GTK+. For more information see http://www.pango.org > What does config.out say about this ? cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Error emerging gtk+ Pango not found (expat issue or not?)
* Patrick Holthaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What does config.out say about this ? > > There is no config.out in /var/tmp/portage. You can find build.log and > config.log here: yeah, I meant config.log ;-o ... and it clearly tells what's wrong. cairo's obviously built w/ GL, and your GL library is broken. In no way surprising, since it's NVidia's proprietary crap. You could try switching to another GL (via eselect) or rebuilding cairo w/o GL. BTW: if you experience system lockups or X11 crashes, also the NVidia driver may be the source of evil. Sad but true: there is *NO* reliable 3D driver for recent NVidia cards. NV's proprietary driver is crap, and they're totally unwilling to support OSS community in any way. So if you really want GL, either try software rendering (via mesa) or get a supported card. (I've got the same problem - didn't properly check before bying :( ) cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] defect management block device
* Alan McKinnon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If SMART (or something conceptually similar) detects that a drive might > be failing and be beyond the range of the drive's ability to cope, it > could raise an event and move the blocks used to another disk. And it even would get funnier if the drive's relocation table could be accessed (no idea if this is possible): The LVM would notice if the drive has relocated an (LBA) block, move it out of the way (somewhere else in the LV) and then remove the relocation (never access that LBA block anymore). This way an slowly dying disk can be used for quite a long time. Think of boxes with very limited physical access (eg. outoor field systems) or huge archives w/ non-critical/regeneratable data (eg. media collections w/ originals available, mirrors, etc). The idea of using even old and damaged disks at really low costs (not counting the power consumption ;-P) is seems quite fascinating to me :) cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] 1/2 OT: What Linux could learn from mainframes ?
* Chris Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Check out LVM (Logical Volume Manager) > > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/ > http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/lvm2.xml Yes, at least for the storage stuff, LVM2 can do much of this. But my ideas go some steps futher, eg: * mapping blocks instead of larger chunks * defect management directly on block basis (w/o additional stacking layers). * distributed storages (not just disks, but several hosts) * volumes attributes which let the volume manager decide how/where to actually store blocks, eg.: + mirroring: min/max number of copies, allowed device classes + compression: allowed algos or grades + encryption: ciphers, keys, ... + reliability: hard/limit (eg. use "unstable" disks exceptionally) + caching: allow some volumes to be cached on fast devices ... cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo for embedded-linux
* Neil Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, > You mean something like this?: > > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/index.xml AFAIK, portage is far from being suitable for real embedded development. It's lacking essential things like sysroot. Also dozens of ebuilds will hazardouzly fail due bad assumptions like always doing non-foreing installs, building machine can run built code, etc, etc. Didn't check the crossdev tool yet, but for creating cross-toolchains I'really recommend crosstool/crosstool-ng. If you like to have some portage-alike builder tool which is designed for crosscompiling, let me know :) cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Doubt about FLAG use
* b.n. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Etaoin Shrdlu ha scritto: > >On Thursday 24 April 2008, 18:54, KH wrote: > > > >> USE="-ipv6 -ftp" emerge -av mplayer > > > >To the OP: this is exactly the kind of thing that should be avoided. > > Yes, but also tell the OP that the correct thing is to edit > /etc/portage/package.use appropriately... BTW: is there an way for passing an temporary package.use filename to portage (for trying out certain configs) ? cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] firefox crash when playing flash
* Gustavo Campos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi folks, > > I figure out that the mpd didn't work either when the firefox was > > suspending there, is it possible they cann't work together. > > Well that points to the road I was trying to take: sound problem. At my site, adobe-flash also causes bad hangups in Seamonky (reproducible on serveral distros). But it's not an audio problem (the typical /dev/dsp blocking) - instead an loop inside the player, which prevents control from getting back to the browser. This is one of the many points showing that the Mozilla plugin API is totally crap. Those external apps clearly belong into an separate and sandboxed process which shoudln't have the chance to disturb anyone else. cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Circular dependencies when USE=gnome and emerging world
* Michael Schmarck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, > When I do "emerge -DuvatN world", I get an error to the effect, > that there are circular dependencies. Please see below. you might try to build the leafs of the tree step by step and report back which of the packages are actually broken. cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Portage -> touch files
Hi folks, I'd like to automatic purging of portage's temporary files from time to time (eg. nightly). But this doesn't work since downloaded uncompressed files have their original timestamps, not the time of fetch/uncompress. Is there any way to tweak this to the current timestamp ? thx -- ----- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage -> touch files
* Neil Bothwick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What's wrong with > > pgrep emerge || rm -fr $(portageq envvar PORTAGE_TMPDIR)/portage This removes everything in /var/tmp/portage. I don't want this, just those which have certain age (eg. 1 day), otherwise it could interfere w/ running builds. And it also doesn't clean old distfiles. Meanwhile I've learned about $FETCHCOMMAND(_*), but this doesn't seem to get the URI passed :( cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage -> touch files
* Etaoin Shrdlu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Monday 28 April 2008, 10:28, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > I'd like to automatic purging of portage's temporary files from > > time to time (eg. nightly). But this doesn't work since downloaded > > uncompressed files have their original timestamps, not the time > > of fetch/uncompress. > > > > Is there any way to tweak this to the current timestamp ? > > Can't you just check the timestamp of the containing directories? Good point, at least for the tmpdir stuff :) cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage -> touch files
* Neil Bothwick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It won't interfere with running ebuilds, because pgrep emerge > will cause it to exit if emerge is running. Ah, I missed that point ;-o > Deleting anything over a day old is dangerous, think openoffice > on a slow/loaded machine. Therefore I'm using more than one day. Actually, I don't use overbloated stuff like OO ;-P > ebuilds should clean up after themselves, so you only get cruft > in $PORTAGE_TMPDIR when an ebuild fails. Right, but this tends to be quite often in the last time :( > No, it doesn't clean distfiles, but you didn't ask about them, > use eclean for that. hmm, won't help me very much, since I don't want to keep distfiles for already installed packages, but those which are scheduled for update (running nightly emerge -uDF world). cu -- --------- Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
