Re: [gentoo-user] ogle and mplayer
Isn't ogle unsupported? I suppose it has to do with Xv, but I don't know really. Anyway, I'm pretty sure ogle is unsupported. Canek On 6/26/05, luis jure <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > something funny is happening here with ogle and mplayer: > > i start X, run ogle, open a dvd, and it plays ok. > > but if i first run mplayer, after that ogle gives a blank screen (sound is > still ok). if i exit X and restart it, ogle works ok again. > > this happens on two very different computers (athlon xp and amd64 laptop), > both with ogle 0.9.2 and mplayer 1.0_pre7. > > has anyone experienced something similar? > > -- > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > > -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] fbsplash
Did you created /dev/tty1? From the ebuild: * It appears that the /dev/tty1 character device doesn't exist on * the root filesystem. This will prevent the silent mode from working * properly. You can fix the problem by doing: * mount --bind / /lib/splash/tmp * mknod /lib/splash/tmp/dev/tty1 c 4 1 * umount /lib/splash/tmp That did the trick for me. Canek On 7/10/05, Uwe Thiem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sunday 10 July 2005 21:07, Manuel McLure wrote: > > Uwe Thiem wrote: > > > Still no joy. Same behaviour as before. :-( > > > > > > Actually, I wouldn't give a rat's ass for it but this is for a customer, > > > and looks are important. > > > > Did you update the /usr/src/linux symlink to point to > > linux-2.6.12-gentoo-r4? The splashutils ebuild uses that to figure out > > what kernel to build against. > > > > -- > > Manuel A. McLure KE6TAW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.mclure.org> > > ...for in Ulthar, according to an ancient and significant law, > > no man may kill a cat. -- H.P. Lovecraft > > Yes, of course I did. > > Uwe > > -- > 95% of all programmers rate themselves among the top 5% of all software > developers. - Linus Torvalds > > http://www.uwix.iway.na (last updated: 20.06.2004) > -- > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > > -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ogle and mplayer
On 7/13/05, luis jure <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > el Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:19:06 -0500 > Canek Peláez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > > > Anyway, I'm pretty sure ogle is unsupported. > > is it? i emerged it normally, it wasn't masked or anything. it also used to > work on my previous linux installation. My bad; I was meaning "unmantained. Go to the homepage; last version is from November 2003. > anyway, i'm using xine now, it's the only dvd player i tried so far that > works well. Xine is OK; Totem it's getting there. > ¿cómo anda el méxico querido? quitando al tarado que tenemos como presidente, sobreviviendo. ¿cómo va Uruguay? -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Mplayer + compiz + x11-drivers/xf86-video-i810-2.0.x = busted video
On 7/14/07, Daniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I thought I'd try out the new i810 driver for my intel card (IBM X41 Tablet) and while most of X seems to work just fine, even with compiz, mplayer is just plain busted (see mplayer output followed by xvinfo output below) in that it shows a black window (window decorations are intact, but it's just a black box) and audio comes through just fine. While the video plays, this line is repeated over and over: I've a i915, and it happens the same thing with beryl. However, if I switch to metacity everything is fine, so I suppose there is a problem with beryl/compiz... or maybe the chip is just unable to use both beryl and Xv, but then beryl/compiz should be fixed so it gives the resources to Xv when in use. My question then is: is this the kind of thing that I should report as a bug? And if so, to whom? Freedesktop.org or Gentoo.org? Probably compiz/beryl; I tell you, with the exact same X configuration and metacity, MPlayer works perfectly. You can work around it (a little) using "mplayer -vo x11" or editing ~/.mplayer/config and putting "vo=x11". Then you can play videos, but you loose real fullscreen. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Mplayer + compiz + x11-drivers/xf86-video-i810-2.0.x = busted video
On 7/14/07, Tim Allingham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What output driver are you using in mplayer? I've seen the same issue occur with a couple of output drivers running on beryl machines, I personally have it configured with the gl output driver and have never had an issue (running on nvidia hardware with beryl enabled) while my brothers machine had similar issues with the gl driver using an ATI based card Yeah, with NVidia it works perfectly with the gl (sometimes gl2) driver (I have an NVidia GeForce 6800 in my desktop machine). But with the i810 and i915 drivers the only output driver that works with compiz/beryl (in my experience, and sans real fullscreen) is the x11 one. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Machine Cleanup
On 7/16/07, Samir Faci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi all, So, I have a gentoo install that's slowly evolved over the past 3 years or so years. It's now so cluttered with packages, it's becoming ridiculous, especially for a headless server. What I'd like to do is be able to remove all KDE/Gnome/X/gtk/qt/...etc out of the machine and not have it break the machine completely. Any suggestion on how to do go about this? At this stage, I'd like the server to have the basic system build, LAMP, and Postfix. The easiest thing is to remove xorg entirely: uninstall xorg-base/xorg-x11 and mask the package in /etc/portage/package.mask. Also, add "-X -gtk -qt3 -qt4" to your USE flags. Then try an emerge -uDNvp world; it would tell you what packages could not be resolved because they need X.org. It would be long and don't think it can be automated. When I eliminated KDE (why did I have to install it in the first place?), it took at least five emerges to get it done. You can advance by equery'ing all the packages with kde, gnome, and x11 categories or names, get the list and remove all of them. Good luck: but it's going to take a little effort. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] checking for XML::Parser... configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is required for intltool
On 8/11/07, Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, >emerge gnome fails. Does anyone recognize what portage is > complaining about here? I'm not really sure, but I solved it by reemerging dev-perl/XML-Parser. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Where did this volume come from?
On 6/28/07, Mike Mazur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, Hi. When I point Nautilus at location 'computer:///' I see my CD-ROM drive, my filesystem, a network, and something that says '39.2 MB Volume'. I'd like to mount this volume to see what's there but I can't because I'm not root. Where did this volume come from? How can I explore what's there as root? Where does Nautilus look to display the contents of 'computer:///'? If I'm not wrong, that would be your boot partition (or another small partition you have declared in /etc/fstab). It's not really Nautilus, but gnome-volume-manager and gnome-mount the responsible ones. Check the gconf keys under /system/storage to configure those. They also use /etc/fstab, but then you cannot mount the volumes listed in there. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Batch resizing of photos
On 12/24/06, Mick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi All, I have a load of photos which I would like to resize running some sort of ImageMagick batch command; e.g. If you manage your photos with F-Spot, there is a cool utility to export your photos to a directory, scaling them in the way if you want to. The directory could be any GNOME VFS URI, so it works with remote directories too. The photos all preserve the EXIF information, which is very cool. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ipw2200 dmesg error
I got the same messages; they disappeared when I changed to the in-kernel modules for the ipw2200. Canek On 1/15/06, martin nicolas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Maybe you should have a look at : > http://bughost.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=697 > http://gentoo-wiki.com/HARDWARE_ipw2200 > > > On 1/15/06, Matthias Bethke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Rafael, > > on Sunday, 2006-01-15 at 16:45:29, you wrote: > > > Sorry I did a dmesg and that message shows for me too... but less > times > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ dmesg | grep ipw2200 > > > ipw2200: Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 2200/2915 Network Driver, 1.0.10 > > > ipw2200: Copyright(c) 2003-2005 Intel Corporation > > > ipw2200: Detected Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG Network Connection > > > ipw2200: Unknown notification: subtype=40,flags=0xa0,size=40 > > > ipw2200: Firmware error detected. Restarting. > > > > I have the same, though I never even noticed. The card works just fine. > > > > BTW, Rafael, if you uploaded your key to the keyserver network, signing > > your mail would even make sense :) > > > > regards > > Matthias > > > > > > > ipw2200: Sysfs 'error' log captured. > > > ipw2200: Firmware error detected. Restarting. > > > ipw2200: Sysfs 'error' log already exists. > > > > > > Bye, > > > Rafael Fernández López. > > > -- > > > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > > > > > > > -- > > I prefer encrypted and signed messages. KeyID: FAC37665 > > Fingerprint: 8C16 3F0A A6FC DF0D 19B0 8DEF 48D9 1700 FAC3 7665 > > > > > > > > > > -- > Dans la vie il n'y a que 10 sortes de personnes > Celles qui comprennent le binaire et > les autres. > > Martin Nicolas Master 2 I2A -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: ipw2200 dmesg error
Yes; the in-kernel version is an older one (it uses an older firmware). But it solved the problem, and I don't have any issues with the version in the kernel. I'm running gentoo-sources-2.6.14-r5. Canek On 1/15/06, Sven Köhler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I got the same messages; they disappeared when I changed to the > >> in-kernel modules for the ipw2200. > > > > so let me understand: changing from the ipw2200 external-provided > > driver to the in-kernel one solved this issue? Which kernel? > > But i thought that the in-kernel driver were older than the driver you > > could directly get from the ipw2200 site > > Kernel 2.6.14 included ipw2200 1.0.0, i think. > I once heard, that 2.6.15 will include some "updated" version, but i > have no clue, which one it is. > > > > -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: ipw2200 dmesg error
When I transmitted large amounts of data (videos, ISO images etc.) my connection sometimes died just after an "Firmware error detected. Restarting." With the version in the kernel, the message doesn't appear and the connection never dies. Maybe they're two unrelated problems, but I'm not sure. Canek On 1/15/06, Rafael Fernández López <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Marco Calviani wrote: > > Hi list. > > i think this is a general issue of the ipw2200 drivers since i've > > found this site http://www.bughost.org/bugzilla/ and lots of people > > seems to have the very same problem. > > Let's hope the future release will deal with this. > > > > Regards, > > MC > > > > I don't consider this trouble critical. My wireless connection works > perfectly, indeed I haven't noticed that trouble until Marco started > this thread. > > I think we shouldn't worry about it too much. > > Bye, > Rafael Fernández López. > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFDyryD9RRlaicc3IERAjg/AJ0WaHUk84D8mK9q4LRg7FOFF65aOgCgqBty > i1OvLyz52q/ISkOdY53BpZw= > =908w > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > -- > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > > -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Detecting when a USB device is attached
GNOME 2.12 do this for you, if you put yourself in the plugdev group. It just works. Canek On 2/5/06, Neil Bothwick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 17:09:43 -0500, James Colby wrote: > > > I was wondering if anybody knew of a package or a method that I could > > use to detect when a USB mass storage device is attached to my PC. > > What I would like to be able to do is to write a small script that > > would mount my USB mass storage device, sync up a directory, and then > > unmount the device everytime I plug my USB drive into the computer. > > Udev will take care of this. all you need is a udev rule that matches the > particular device and calls a script that carries out the actions you > want. See http://www.reactivated.net/udevrules.php for plenty on writing > udev rules. > > > -- > Neil Bothwick > > Newsflash! Explosion at M$ beta testsite - Infinite number of monkeys > killed. > > > -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] evolution
The problem is that, at some update, the libraries that EDS depends upon were changed, and now EDS doesn't work. Run revdep-rebuid. Canek On 5/3/05, Paul Varner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 11:44 +0800, W.Kenworthy wrote: > > In the calendar mode: menu:view/current_view/day_view ?? > > Then check again. > > > > On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 03:37 +0100, José Moreira wrote: > > > Nope it aint here :| > > > > > > > > > Qua, 2005-05-04 às 06:32 +0800, W.Kenworthy escreveu: > > > > Sometimes you get a size of zero for an evolution pane. Looking > > > > carefully through your alcoholic fog, grab the edge of the left side of > > > > the right pane (the calendar pane) and drag it to the right. It looks > > > > like a narrow, dimpled vertical bar. > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2005-05-03 at 21:27 +0100, José Moreira wrote: > > > > > compiled evolution 2.2.1.1 *hic* and it doesnt offer task as candendar > > > > > features :| *hick* 99 bottles on my desk *hick* *hick* > > I hadn't replied because I don't have an answer and haven't bothered to > do any troubleshooting or research yet. Anyhow, on one of my systems, > Evolution no longer has a calendar or task pane available at all. By not > available, I mean there are no menu entries under view->window in > addition to there not being any buttons to push at the lower left to get > into those panes. Email and Contacts are there, just not the calendar > or tasks. > > I believe that José is running into the same issue. > > Regards, > Paul > > -- > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > > -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Problem compiling lirc for streamzap with 2.6.14-rc3
The problem is, the new 2.6.13 kernels had removed devfs. Nothing
important, but it prevents LIRC (and other packages) to compile. Put
app-misc/lirc ~x86
in /etc/portage/package.keywords and get the newest version. It works
OK for me (with two remotes, one is a streamzap).
Canek
On 10/14/05, Dave Nebinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thursday 13 October 2005 11:10 pm, Shaw Vrana wrote:
> > Hello again Gentooers,
> >
> > I'm attempting to get the streamzap remote working with lirc. According to
> > the howtos around, I've created LIRC_OPTS in make.conf with a value of
> > "--with-driver=streamzap". Emerging lirc afterwards, however, gives me
> > the compilation errors attached. Also, I get the message "Streamzap is not
> > Kernel 2.6 ready and will not be compiled". Is this true or does it work
> > out of the box? I've seen both reports out there. The 2.6.14-rc3 kernel
> > I'm running seems to know the device and register it properly.
> >
> > Oct 13 17:47:40 kron kernel: usb 2-1: Product: Streamzap Remote Control
> > Oct 13 17:47:40 kron kernel: usb 2-1: Manufacturer: Streamzap, Inc.
> > Oct 13 17:47:40 kron kernel: usb 2-2: new low speed USB device using
> > uhci_hcd Oct 13 17:47:41 kron kernel: usb 2-2: Product: PS2 to USB
> > Converter
>
> Shaw, there's nothing in the config.log file that meantions the streamzap
> driver. The errors are the normal output of the configure script testing for
> environmental things (i.e. mingw compiler, libdnet.{a,so}, etc) and are not
> failures that you need to worry about.
>
> Unfortunately there is no indication why it thinks it's not '2.6 ready'.
>
> Do you have your /usr/src/linux link set to point at the kernel you're
> compiling for?
>
> Also which version of lirc were you going after?
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Wireless WPA and ipw2200 problems
I'm using the latest kernel, with the ipw2200 driver it provides (not
the one in portage). Evrything works great in WPA, but I don't use the
-Dipw option of wpa_supplicant; I use -Dwext: the tip is in
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HARDWARE_ipw2200
I'm using the suspend2 sources, so I don't have 2.6.17 yet.
Canek
On 8/21/06, Willie Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 07:53:52PM +1000, Penguin Lover Alan E. Davis squawked:
> I have recently installed ubuntu on another partition in the mainly
> gentoo gateway laptop I've been running for over a year with great
> success. I have never had any wireless problems, using the ipw2200
> centrino. I've not changed kernels for a long while, still running
> 2.5.15 something. Never a hiccough.
Upgrading your kernel might be a good idea.
> Then, after installing ubuntu, accessing a few access points, suddenly
> the module for ipw2200 won't install consistently, and I get an error,
> the most recent error was "-1" but there was another number earlier.
I take it that you are trying to install the net-wireless/ipw2200
package? (since it does not come built into the kernel until somewhere
around 2.6.8)
> Well, at school today, confounding all this, the wireless access
> points have now been set up with WPA keys. Trying WEP keys with
> Ubuntu was unsuccessful, after failling w/ gentoo altogether. Then
> when trying to run "/etc/init.d/net.eth0 start" again, as I've been
> doing, there is no happiness, and I tracked down this failure to load
> the module. After a couple of tried, the module did, I think load,
> but because of the WPA setup, I cannot figure out how to access the
> net. Back to ubuntu, back to gentoo---again module problems. These
> are firmware problems, failture to load firmware, not the ipw2200
> module, sorry.
Which versions of firmware/ipw2200/kernel are you running here
exactly?
> Ubuntu too, I cannot figure out how to use the WPA key.
We should tackle one thing at a time. But have you looked at
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Wireless_Configuration_and_Startup
W
--
BOOK...Man had always assumed that he was more
intelligent than
dolphins because he had achieved so much... the
wheel, New York,
wars, and so on, whilst all the dolphins had ever
done was muck
about in the water having a good time. But
conversely the
dolphins believed themselves to be more intelligent
than man for
precisely the same reasons.
Sortir en Pantoufles: up 1 day, 19:57
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Phonon + PulseAudio Problem
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 6:13 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote: [snip] > Like an earlier poster suggested, PulseAudio looks like a hammer in search of > a nail. I have a bluetooth headset. I set it up with gnome-bluetooth, and with PulseAudio I can dynamically redirect the output in my laptop from the speakers to the headset and back; it also redirects it automatically when my headset gets disconnected or runs out of battery. Good luck doing that with ALSA. PulseAudio is here to stay, and for a very good reason I say. It's not "too complicated" or "overkill"; a modern sound architecture for desktop computers was in dire need for Linux, and PulseAudio was the first complete and (more important) correct designed solution. Don't even mention OSS4; the sound architecture goes in user space, not the kernel. This is why *ALL* the Linux based mobile phones use PulseAudio: it *works*, and it *makes sense* from a technical point of view. It sucked for a long time? Indeed it did; just like KDE 4.0 sucked immediately afer KDE 3.5; just like X.org sucked at the very beginning; just like ALSA sucked when it replaced OSS; just like GNOME 2.0 sucked. Innovation is expensive. I have PulseAudio running perfectly in my laptop, my desktop, *and* my MediaCenter connected to my 5.1 system. Via HDMI, by the way. I thank for PulseAudio; now, after the initial (and very annoying) problems, it works, it doesn't get in the way, and it's flexible enough to adapt to new hardware and new sound solutions. Bluetooth headsets it's just one example (but a very good one I believe; everything is going wireless); there are USB sound cards, transparently output the music from my laptop to my MediaCenter, and, of course, little beeps from the GUI when I click a menu item. I repeat: PulseAudio is here to stay. You can purge it out of your system, but more and more applications will make use of it, and eventually you will not be able to have a desktop without it. Right now it works flawlessly in the majority of hardware; I highly recommend to start using it now (it's stable in Gentoo since a couple of months ago, I believe); and better get used to it. Because it's not going anywhere. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Phonon + PulseAudio Problem
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > On 05/20/2010 08:30 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >> >> Don't >> even mention OSS4; the sound architecture goes in user space, not the >> kernel. > > I don't care where they go (why the hell should I?), for as long as they > work. You should care, because if it breaks inside the kernel, it probably takes away the whole operating system. And then you lose work and you're sad. But don't take my word for it; Intel+Nokia are using PulseAudio in MeeGo, and Google it's doing the same with Android. They are making an opinion with their wallets. (And doesn't really matters, but I haven't heard that it's possible to switch audio from internal speakers to bluetooth headset with OSS4, so as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't work.) Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Phonon + PulseAudio Problem
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: [snip > (And doesn't really matters, but I haven't heard that it's possible to > switch audio from internal speakers to bluetooth headset with OSS4, so > as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't work.) With just a few clicks, I should add. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Phonon + PulseAudio Problem
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: [snip] > What doesn't work is PulseAudio, actually. Too many problems with it. Pulse > is simply broken by design; it's too far from the kernel to be any good. If I may use (most of) your words: "Well, it works here. It's been rock-solid through months." And with various use-cases, if I may add. Can you elaborate why the audio architecture has to be close to the kernel? The part that talks to the hardware obviously has to, but why the part that handles the features, the mixes, the virtual devices? I'm under the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that it was one of the major reasons to leave OSS4 outside the upstream kernel; too many stuff in there that belongs in user space. It sounds reasonable to me. Specially when PulseAudio just works, for me and many more. [snip] > ALSA can't switch to Bluetooth either. You could use PulseAudio with OSS4 > instead of with ALSA though, but this is not officially supported. Indeed it's not supported, because it's (using your words again) "broken by design" by trying to do too many things inside the kernel that belong in user space. That's my understanding at least; please correct me if you believe I'm mistaken. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Phonon + PulseAudio Problem
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > Because as soon as you disable ALSA dmix and/or Pulse, suddenly you get > acceptable sound latency. > > With OSS4, which has in-kernel mixing, it doesn't matter if you enable the > mixer or disable it; sound always has acceptable latency. By that reasoning, the GUI should be in-kernel too. It would be then really responsive al the time. I don't buy the argument. > Thus, I can only conclude that mixing has to happen in-kernel. But I base > this only on the ALSA/Pulse vs OSS4 comparison. It could also be that the > user-space implementation of ALSA just sucks. But that's hard to believe, > since if that were the case they would have fixed it several years ago > already. No, it doesn't has to happen in-kernel; all the linux based phones (which deal primarily with, you know, audio, including heavy use of multimedia) use PulseAudio. And these are not very powerful machines; so if the mixing in user space works in low powered devices, it must work everywhere. I don't buy this argument either. > It sounds reasonable from a designer's point of view. But a system is > useless if it's only designed good but doesn't actually work in a > satisfactory manner. It works for me, I repeat, and for a lot of other folks too. It's not only a design decision made because it's "elegant"; it's made because it works "in a satisfactory manner" (ex. me, others, Linux phones), and because it's more flexible: put it in the kernel, and you loose the capacity to do important changes and extensions (specially with the way the Linux kernel development works). In short, because it works "in a satisfactory manner" (to me and many others, including all the N900 and Android users out there), I also don't buy this argument. > Sorry, that just pretentious of you here. PulseAudio is the most flamed at, > hated, sound-related software around. And this is because it does *not* > work for many, many users, and the first thing they try to do is find out > how to disable the thing. Sorry, but I believe the you are the one being pretentious; how long has been since you tried PulseAudio? It has come a lng way, and I haven't seen any real flames against PulseAudio in many months (and it's enabled in all major distributions). And that is because it's working (I repeat my words) "for me and many more". > You're mistaken in that a mixer should be in the same boat as network > streaming, bluetooth, etc, etc. I believe the *mixer* should be in-kernel. > Everything else doesn't need to be. PulseAudio's extreme latency problems > (which even upstream admits can't be fixed easily) stem from that. I respectfully disagree; the kernel should pass along data and messages to the sound hardware, and everything else (*including mixing*) should be in user space. Not only in theory from an academic and aesthetic point of view; *it also works*, to me, to many users who doesn't complain (despite PulseAudio being used by default in ALL major distributions), and to ALL the users of Android and MeeGo. And to finish, I don't know how much you know about technical decisions and design, but I know that Linus refused to accept OSS4 in the kernel, I know that all major distributions decided to go with PulseAudio, and I know that Intel, Nokia and Google are betting for it. So, no offense, but I trust more in those guys and the arguments I have heard from them. And the consensus with them is to use PulseAudio, and leave the mixing in user space. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Phonon + PulseAudio Problem
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 8:08 PM, Jonathan wrote: [snip] > Windows "works" for many people it does not make it the best OS or the only > one. > In Ubuntu they went from oss to PulseAudio. > I bet that 90% of Ubuntu users do not know that PulseAudio uses Alsa. What it has to do with anthing? I'm not saying it "kinda works"; I'm saying it works great. Much better than anything else I have tried. > At the end of the day I want to pick a sound system and use it. > I do not want one forced on me. This is OpenSource; nobody is "forcing" you to anything. If you want to you can take the code of ALSA, OSS4 or even PulseAudio and do whatever you want with it. But every major distribution and all the Linux based phones are going with PulseAudio. And for a good reason: it works great. So it's not being forced on anyone, but its going to be the default almost everywhere. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Phonon + PulseAudio Problem
On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:02 AM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > Then why does dmix lag? > Then why does dmix lag? I don't know; I don't care. I don't use dmix, I use PulseAudio, and it takes care of everything in user space and I don't have to worry about anything. > I've tried it 6 days ago. Ubuntu 10.04. It's still a laggy, buggy, pile of > . First thing I did was to disable it. It doesn't lag here. It's rock solid stable. In all my computers, each one with completely different sound hardware. And I'm just using the ebuilds from Gentoo; I didn't configure *anything*. I didn't have to. Maybe Ubuntu has something wrong: Lennart complained that they "didn't get it": http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/pa-in-ubuntu.html > Yes, you and many people also find it acceptable to run their games with > 10FPS, or to take their systems 1 minute to boot, etc. My games doesn't run at 10FPS, my laptop boot in seconds (and usually it's always suspended), my desktop and media center (specially the latter) boot very quickly also. Please don't speak about something you don't know anything about. > I am not one of those people. I don't like it when the sound lags. You may > claim that it doesn't bother you. But you can't claim that it doesn't > happen. I can claim it: it doesn't happen *to me*. It works beautifully. I'm using Gentoo, with the following versions: media-sound/pulseaudio-0.9.21.1 sys-kernel/vanilla-sources-2.6.32.9 My sound card is : 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller (rev 03) (I'm on my laptop; don't have the specs of my desktop or media center, but the versions at least should be the same). I simply don't have any sound lags. > That doesn't mean ALSA is better. Again, I trust more the technical judgement from the kernel developers. No offense. > Then why don't they fix it? It's still crap after all this time. It's not in my case. Not at all. But (as I said in my last mail), this is Open Source; if you think it's crap, you can try to fix it. All I'm saying is that PulseAudio is a great sound architecture for Linux. It works great for me, in several hardware configurations; and in particular in my Media Center, which is my principal medium to listen to music. And I trust the judgement of the ones that decided to use ALSA+PulseAudio. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Phonon + PulseAudio Problem
On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: [...] > because you're not using software that needs good latency, like software > synthesizers) but I do. Then you're doing it wrong. If you are doing professional audio (a little fact, that, by the way, you *NEVER* mentioned; you talked about boot times and FPS in games, but not about professional audio), using PulseAudio it's not going to work for you. Lennart himself said so. But even in the case of professional audio, OSS4 is not the answer. Because the mixing it belongs in user space, not the kernel. The answer you should look at, is Jack: http://jackaudio.org/ And Jack runs in user space, obviously, and on top of ALSA. And it has *incredible* low latencies; you should try it Lennart wrote a comparison between Jack and PulseAudio: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/when-pa-and-when-not.html Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Phonon + PulseAudio Problem
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 1:21 AM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > Latency is the delay between giving the order to play a sound and the sound > actually being played. It's usually around 30ms here with ALSA/dmix, and > around 10ms with OSS/vmix. It's not funny trying to play something in a > software synth with a keyboard when having a 30ms latency. As I said, you're doing it wrong. No "normal" (average desktop, media center, laptop, linux-phone) user needs 10ms of latency in audio. That's overkill. Yours is a special case, and you need special software. Try Jack. And it doesn't need to be in kernel space, by the way. OSS4 is dying because of that. For the rest of us mere mortals, PulseAudio Rocks; it has *variable* latencies by design, so the audio processing doesn't eat up all the battery life. Again, read the comparison between PulseAudio and Jack: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/when-pa-and-when-not.html Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Phonon + PulseAudio Problem
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: [snip] > I don't do professional audio. I have a normal PC. And just like I > sometimes use a synth in Windows (I'm just a hobbyist), I'd like to do the > same in Linux. You can; but you have to use special software, because yours is a special case. The normal desktop/laptop user does not use a synth. > ALSA/Pulse needing third-party stuff just to get basics right (acceptable > latency; not *ultra* low latency, just acceptable one) is a sign that > they're not designed right. Your definition of "acceptable" is *ultra* low to me, and many others. To me acceptable latency means that the audio system does not waste my laptop/phone battery. > And in the end, you know what? Even if OSS4 had a broken design, it's still > better, because it works better. This is your principal problem: you think your use-case is universal, and it's not. To me Alsa+PulseAudio works better because it allows the battery of my laptop to last for hours while I see a movie with my bluetooth headset. With the latencies you want, that's not possible. I believe my use-case is more general. > At least it gets the basics right. Other > operating systems are much more advanced in that manner. It's ALSA that > holds Linux audio back. Jack uses ALSA. From the Jack FAQ page (http://jackaudio.org/faq): Doesn't use JACK add latency? There is NO extra latency caused by using JACK for audio input and output. When we say none, we mean absolutely zero. The only impact of using JACK is a slight increase in the amount of work done by the CPU to process a given chunk of audio, which means that in theory you could not get 100% of the processing power that you might get it if your application(s) used ALSA or CoreAudio directly. However, given that the difference is less than 1%, and that your system will be unstable before you get close to 80% of the theoretical processing power, the effect is completely disregardable. ALSA works great. And for regular users, with PulseAudio both are full of awesome awesomeness. For your use-case, you should try Jack. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] bluetooth headset and espeak
On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 7:20 AM, W.Kenworthy wrote:
[...]
> It looks like bluez is continually changing so most of the guides Ive
> found dont apply - I am using bluez-4.39. alsamixer etc dont list the
> bluetooth device and I cant see it in /proc/asound, but its obviously
> there if mplayer can access it!
With:
gnome-base/gnome-2.28.2
net-wireless/gnome-bluetooth-2.28.6
media-sound/pulseaudio-0.9.21.1
You only go to System->Preferences->Bluetooh, "Set new device...",
detect and connect yo your headset, and then System->Sound, in the
output tab you select your headset, and all the PulseAudio
applications will output sound through your headset.
If also you have
pcm.!default {
type pulse
}
ctl.!default {
type pulse
}
in your ~/.asoundrc, all the ALSA applications will use PulseAudio,
and then it will work for them too.
Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Instituto de Matemáticas
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] tbz2 "flag"
On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Dan Johansson wrote:
[snip]
> Host-A:
> # eix -I portage-uti
> [I] app-portage/portage-utils
> Available versions: 0.2.1{tbz2} 0.3.1{tbz2} ~0.4 {static}
> Installed versions: 0.3.1{tbz2}(20:46:47 06/10/10)(-static)
> Homepage: http://www.gentoo.org/
> Description: small and fast portage helper tools written in C
>
> Host-B:
> # eix -I portage-utils
> [I] app-portage/portage-utils
> Available versions: 0.2.1 0.3.1 ~0.4 {static}
> Installed versions: 0.3.1(20:47:10 06/10/10)(-static)
> Homepage: http://www.gentoo.org/
> Description: small and fast portage helper tools written in C
That only means that host A is using precompiled binaries, the ones
builded in host B I suppose. If you also compile the packages in host
A, the tbz2 flag will disappear.
Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Instituto de Matemáticas
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] @preserved-rebuild
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 1:25 PM, James wrote: > Hello, > > > I keep getting this mesaage on one particulary system: > > existing preserved libs: > package: sys-libs/readline-6.0_p3 > * - /lib64/libreadline.so > * - /lib64/libreadline.so.5 > * - /lib64/libreadline.so.5.2 > * used by /usr/bin/calgebra (kde-base/kalgebra-4.2.4) > > > So I've rebuilt kalgegra, readline and revdep-rebuild comes > up clean. I ran 'emerge @preserved-rebuild' numerous times > and still I get this error message. > > > Ideas on cleaning this up? Read the message to the end: you have to do emerge @preserved-rebuild Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Sound card drivers must be modules?
On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Grant wrote: >>> But I get the warning about "Module snd_hda_intel not found" which is >>> the built-in chip. >> >> That's because you don't have that module, it's built into the kernel. >> This also means the the options lines in alsa.conf will not do anything. > > OK, so I need to build them as modules, or I need to change those > lines in alsa.conf? If I can avoid building them as modules I'd like > to. How can those lines be written when the drivers are built into > the kernel? You pass the parameters in the kernel boot line. For examen, in my grub.conf I have: title Gentoo Linux (linux-2.6.31.5) root (hd0,3) kernel /boot/kernel-2.6.31.5 root=/dev/sda4 quiet udev splash=silent,fadein,theme:natural_gentoo CONSOLE=/dev/tty1 iwlagn.swcrypto=1 snd-hda-intel.model=basic initrd /boot/initrd-2.6.31.5 I have two parameters for my built-in modules: for the iwlagn module, the parameter swcrypto=1, and for the snd-hda-intel the parameter model= basic. In general, for a built-in module called "module", you pass the parameter "parm" with value "val" this way: module.parm=val As of now, in my laptop I have *all* my modules built-in. In other machines, I have modules where there is no other option (like nvidia drivers, LIRC, ndiswrapper, stuff like that). Good luck. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Sound card drivers must be modules?
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Helmut Jarausch wrote: > On 5 Nov, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: > ... >> Also, in my laptop (amd64 with Intel Core2 Duo) I don't have any >> emul-linux-* package; both Firefox and the Flash plugin (I use >> www-plugins/adobe-flash) are the 64bit versions. > > Then you have built firefox from source? Or is there a 64 bit version > of mozilla-firefox-bin around? I compile firefox. And OpenOffice ;) Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Bittorent black box
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 5:02 PM, laurent wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to use my server as bittorent client and maybe tracker later. > I would like to have a web interface but I could also develop it myself > later. > > I saw, qbittorent and hrktorrent that looks good. I don't know any features > of the last one. > What would you recommend to use? I use Vuze (formerly Azureus) with VNC, and I control it with its web interface when I'm not inside my LAN: http://azureus.sourceforge.net/plugin_details.php?plugin=webui It's a little bloated, but it runs perfectly in my Atom powered server, and it certainly has all the features a Torrent client can have. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: Re: [gentoo-user] Bittorent black box
2009/11/24 : > > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 5:02 PM, laurent wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I would like to use my server as bittorent client and maybe tracker later. >> I would like to have a web interface but I could also develop it myself >> later. >> >> I saw, qbittorent and hrktorrent that looks good. I don't know any >> features >> of the last one. >> What would you recommend to use? > > I use Vuze (formerly Azureus) with VNC, and I control it with its web > interface when I'm not inside my LAN: > > http://azureus.sourceforge.net/plugin_details.php?plugin=webui > > It's a little bloated, but it runs perfectly in my Atom powered > server, and it certainly has all the features a Torrent client can > have. > > Regards. > -- > Canek Pelez Valds > Instituto de Matemticas > Universidad Nacional Autnoma de Mxico > > > > You don't wanna be using that, try rtorrent. It's the nutts. Actually, I DO wanna use Vuze, but thanks. I used rtorrent years ago; maybe I will give it a try again. However, I don't see in their homepage that it supports automatic download of torrents through an RSS feed with regexp filters, like Vuze actually does. For me, that's the killer feature of Vuze. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: Re: [gentoo-user] Bittorent black box
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:50 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: > 2009/11/24 : >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 5:02 PM, laurent wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I would like to use my server as bittorent client and maybe tracker later. >>> I would like to have a web interface but I could also develop it myself >>> later. >>> >>> I saw, qbittorent and hrktorrent that looks good. I don't know any >>> features >>> of the last one. >>> What would you recommend to use? >> >> I use Vuze (formerly Azureus) with VNC, and I control it with its web >> interface when I'm not inside my LAN: >> >> http://azureus.sourceforge.net/plugin_details.php?plugin=webui >> >> It's a little bloated, but it runs perfectly in my Atom powered >> server, and it certainly has all the features a Torrent client can >> have. >> >> Regards. >> -- >> Canek Pelez Valds >> Instituto de Matemticas >> Universidad Nacional Autnoma de Mxico >> >> >> >> You don't wanna be using that, try rtorrent. It's the nutts. > > Actually, I DO wanna use Vuze, but thanks. I used rtorrent years ago; > maybe I will give it a try again. However, I don't see in their > homepage that it supports automatic download of torrents through an > RSS feed with regexp filters, like Vuze actually does. > > For me, that's the killer feature of Vuze. > > Regards. > -- > Canek Peláez Valdés > Instituto de Matemáticas > Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México > I stand corrected: the RSS utilities where hidden in the 3rd party utilities link from the libtorrent (not rtorrent) page. http://libtorrent.rakshasa.no/wiki/UtilsList It looks interesting; maybe I will try it again. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Instituto de Matemáticas Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Compiz-Fusion
On Dec 31, 2007 11:23 AM, Ted Ozolins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Anyone using compiz-fusion on this list? I'm putting together a system > I'll be using to demo linux. compiz-fusion appears to be the "eye-candy" > that would make a demo shine. I see that its in portage (masked) any > gotchas I should be aware of before proceeding? I've been using it for months with NVidia and Intel drivers; not a problem. Well, with NVidia you need to unload the v4l module for X.org, otherwise it crash X; but that's the only issue. Also, I recommend to grab the fusion-icon package from the xeffects overlay. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM
Re: [gentoo-user] [query] Compiz-fusion working slow
On Jan 30, 2008 3:12 PM, Naiani Rosa de Barros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jan 30, 2008 4:56 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Btw, is it normal to have problems to watch movies or DVDs when > compiz-fusion is on? Because every time I try to watch a movie, VLC > and Gxine close, saying there are not enough resources. I haven't had > any major problems since I figured out I had to turn off something > related to the screen refresh rate on ccsm. > What should I do? > I'm running Xfce on an Acer laptop Core Duo 2GHz, with 1GB ram, and > Intel GMA 950. My desktop (NVidia 6800GS, 256 mb of memory) can handle even high definition video; my laptop (integrated i915GM) doesn't. I need to switch back to metacity to see fullscreen video. You can try to use MPlayer; with -vo gl or -vo gl2 your 950 should be able to play fullscreen video. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM
Re: [gentoo-user] To x86_64 or not to x86_64
On Feb 6, 2008 2:22 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > [1] http://swfdec.freedesktop.org/ By the way, *right now* I'm using Firefox in 64 bits, because YouTube now works with swfdec. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM
Re: [gentoo-user] To x86_64 or not to x86_64
On Feb 6, 2008 1:28 AM, Anthony E. Caudel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > So, for those users who have used both, is it worth it overall? I've been using amd64 two years now, and the only 32 bit applications that *I* use are firefox-bin and mplayer-bin. With swfdec[1] getting better and better, the former will be unnecessary soon (I hope); and I haven't used the later in a *long* time (almost *all* videos are even handled by Totem/GStreamer now, if you unmask and install all the gst-plugins). I don't know about the speed difference, but it's really not too much pain to use amd64. [1] http://swfdec.freedesktop.org/ -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM
Re: [gentoo-user] To x86_64 or not to x86_64
On Feb 6, 2008 3:03 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mittwoch, 6. Februar 2008, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: > > On Feb 6, 2008 2:22 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [...] > > > > > [1] http://swfdec.freedesktop.org/ > > > > By the way, *right now* I'm using Firefox in 64 bits, because YouTube > > now works with swfdec. > > emm, 'normal' flash does work too. For a lng time. You mean with nspluginwrapper? That didn't work for me (it stopped displaying flash without any reason). If you don't mean nspluginwrapper, I don't know what do you mean with 'normal'. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM
[gentoo-user] libmad sound artifacts
Hi; sorry to crosspost, but I know for a fact that gentoo-amd64 has a much lower traffic than gentoo-user. Some weeks ago I noticed serious artifacts in the sound quality of my desktop machine, when playing MP3's with Rhythmbox. It actually sounds like a hardware problem; a speaker cable which is shorting, or a speaker with a broken diaphragm, so at first I though my hardware was broken. But then I noticed that mpg123 and MPlayer don't have the artifacts, with the same MP3's, so then I shifted the blame to GStreamer, because Totem has also the problem. Finally, I was able to locate the problem: it's libmad, because madplay have the artifacts too. Everything that uses libmad sounds like crap, and I've recompiled the library with any option that it offers, but to no avail: the artifacts are still there (I can make them WORSE, with the default fixed point math). I see bug reports that *seems* to be similar, but for ppc and sparc, and those solutions didn't work for me. Other thing: if I decode the MP3 to a WAV file with madplay --output=wave:file.wav, the artifacts disappear. Anyone has *any* idea of what can I do? I'm not using normal speakers; I'm using an old stereo system, plugging the output from my sound card to the video input of the stereo. But it sounds really nice if I'm not using libmad. Any help will be *really* appreciated. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM
[gentoo-user] libmad sound artifacts
Hi; sorry to crosspost, but I know for a fact that gentoo-amd64 has a much lower traffic than gentoo-user. Some weeks ago I noticed serious artifacts in the sound quality of my desktop machine, when playing MP3's with Rhythmbox. It actually sounds like a hardware problem; a speaker cable which is shorting, or a speaker with a broken diaphragm, so at first I though my hardware was broken. But then I noticed that mpg123 and MPlayer don't have the artifacts, with the same MP3's, so then I shifted the blame to GStreamer, because Totem has also the problem. Finally, I was able to locate the problem: it's libmad, because madplay have the artifacts too. Everything that uses libmad sounds like crap, and I've recompiled the library with any option that it offers, but to no avail: the artifacts are still there (I can make them WORSE, with the default fixed point math). I see bug reports that *seems* to be similar, but for ppc and sparc, and those solutions didn't work for me. Other thing: if I decode the MP3 to a WAV file with madplay --output=wave:file.wav, the artifacts disappear. Anyone has *any* idea of what can I do? I'm not using normal speakers; I'm using an old stereo system, plugging the output from my sound card to the video input of the stereo. But it sounds really nice if I'm not using libmad. Any help will be *really* appreciated. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Lilo & ReiserFS on 64 bits
On 10/2/07, Hex Star <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Don't install 64bit linux, there are unresolved issues with 64bit linux I've been using 64 bit linux for almost two years: I don't have any single problem, and I only use two 32 bit binary programs: Firefox (for Flash) and MPlayer (for the win32codecs). Everything else is native 64 bit and works like a charm: even Windows games in wine (compiled in native 64 bits). -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] FS for laptop
On Dec 18, 2007 6:40 PM, Hemmann, Volker Armin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mittwoch, 19. Dezember 2007, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: > > On Dec 18, 2007 2:56 PM, Sergey Kobzar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi guys, > > > > [...] > > > > > - ext3 looks slow some time > > > > The defaults are slow, but you can change them and make it OK. Not > > super fast, but OK. Check out > > /usr/src/linux/Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt, and tweak the > > obvious options. > > > > data=writeback and commit=300 in particular works fine in my VAIO > > laptop. And we're talking about laptops, so a sudden loss of power is > > not something that could happen at any moment. > > there is still 'didn't resume correctly' or 'froze and had to hit reset' which > is as harmfull as power loss. It's been *months* since I had any trouble with suspend/resume with my laptop; but if you are really that paranoid you can always edit /usr/lib/hal/scripts/linux/hal-system-power-suspend-linux and /usr/lib/hal/scripts/linux/hal-system-power-hibernate-linux and do a 'sync' before the suspend; problem solved. If you use gnome-power-manager (or the HAL-aware KDE equivalent) to suspend/resume, of course; if you do it by other means I'm sure you can put the sync command in some other place. (And actually, I'm pretty sure HAL does the sync by itself; it would be idiotic not to do it.) And BTW, AFAIK the same thing happens with *all* the journaled filesystems, but the data=ordered and commit=5 as default in ext3 is because the developers are more concerned with data integrity. Journaled filesystems are not meant to guarantee data integrity; they guarantee *filesystem* integrity. Meaning: you can lost some of your work, but the filesystem will be OK and no fsck is required (in the old days that could be *REALLY* slow). With ext3 using data=writeback, commit=300 and you get a failed resume and you (or HAL) did't sync before resuming, you at mos lost five minutes of work; everything else will be a-OK. Which is the point of the journaled filesystems, of course. But that's only my advice: years ago I lost a chapter of my BS thesis thanks to ReiserFS. I'm sure they got way better (because a lot of folks use it), but if there is something you can say about ext2/ext3, is that they are the *most* stable filesystems available. That's the reason of the "slow" defaults (data=ordered and commit=5); the developers guarantee that, out of the box, ext3 will guarantee filesystem integrity (as all the journaled filesystems do) AND it will protect your data at all cost. With data=writeback and commit=300, ext3 behaves as all the other journaled filesystems (AFAIK; I haven't checked the progress in filesystems in a while): it only guarantees the filesystem integrity, meaning you *could* (it would be difficult anyway) loss 5 minutes of work. See your options; but I'm using Linux since 1996, and Gentoo since 2003, and I have *never* loss data with ext2 and ext3. With ext3 being journaled, of course. And I use suspend all the time in my laptop. In my desktop I use the ext3 default options; my UPS is old and is not working that well, and besides my desktop uses SATA and is *stupidly* fast, so you don't see the performance penalty. Good luck; let us know what you decide. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM
Re: [gentoo-user] spamassassin-3.2.1-r1 emerge failure
On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Kevin O'Gorman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > For reasons discussed elsewhere, I've got to get serious about spam. But my > first 3 attempts to emerge spamassassin have failed. (on x86). > > For one thing, there's a detection process near the beginning that is > failing to detect Perl modules that are actually present, and from portage > not CPAN. > First it was Digest-SHA1. Re-emerging it fixed that, so maybe there was > bitrot somewhere. But now it's doing the same thing with Mail::DKIM, but > that's fortunately not a show-stopper like SHA1, but it's still worrisome. > > Now the show-stopper is some access violations that make no sense to me. It > says it could not 'mkdir /usr/share/spamassassin', but I could do it > from the command line (as root). Having done it, it still complained but > proceeded to report an access violation on an attempt to 'chmod 0644 > something'. > I could also do that one from the command-line. G. > > Has anyone seen this, and know of a workaround? Use mail-filter/bogofilter? It uses bayesian techniques too, and I *think* it's compatible with SpamAssassin (I use Evolution, and it lets you choose among both of them). -- Fred Allen - "Television is a medium because anything well done is rare." -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] No progress indicator in bootsplash
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:27 AM, Nikos Chantziaras <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.25-gentoo-r6 root=/dev/sdc1 > video=uvesafb:1280x1024-32,mtrr:3,ywrap > splash=silent,fadein,fadeout,theme:gentoo console=tty1 BOOT_MSG="Cool, huh?" > softlevel=native In my experience, if you user custom messages (like your "Cool, huh?"), the progress bar disappears. The same happened to me if I edited the keywords SPLASH_BOOT_MESSAGE, SPLASH_REBOOT_MESSAGE and SPLASH_SHUTDOWN_MESSAGE in /etc/conf.d/splash. Hope it helps. Canek -- Fred Allen - "Television is a medium because anything well done is rare." -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] openoffice-2.4.1 complaining about Java Runtime Environment
Open OpenOffice.org, go to Tools -> Options -> Java and select an installed JDK. Presto. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The Open Office seems to run ok, but at start-up, I get the following message: > > javaldx: Could not find a Java Runtime Environment! > > I tried putting JRE in my PATH, just in case, but that didn't seem to > help... Anyone know a resolution to this? > > -- Canek Peláez Valdés Facultad de Ciencias, UNAM
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 3
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Pandu Poluan wrote: > > On Jan 4, 2012 6:19 AM, "Dale" wrote: >> >> Neil Bothwick wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 15:31:20 +0100, Nicolas Sebrecht wrote: >>> >>>> I know. It's the "I want to get the rid of initramfs" thing that looks >>>> crazy to me. >>> >>> No one is saying they want to get rid of the initramfs, because they are >>> not using one. What people object to is being forced to start using one. >>> >>> >> >> You got that right. I have not used one since I started using Gentoo. >> Now, I may very well have to start. I hope mdev gets to a point where it >> works really well on desktop systems. >> > > You were there in the thread linked by Walt, udev is just one of several > packages maintained by RH people that *demands* /usr to be mounted during > boot. > > And the RH devels insistence to deprecate /bin, /sbin, /usr/sbin... > > I'm getting depressed. One battle might be won (mdev vs udev), but there's > still a war against the RH braindeadness... I'm sorry to tell you this, but (as admirable as it could be), the mdev hack to use it instead of udev is not a "victory". We are not at war, in the first place; and in the second place, the mdev hack would be used by a handful of guys bent on refusing a change that, like it or not, would in the end come. Like Gentoo on FreeBSD, it would be a nice hack, maybe even worthy of applause, but in the end irrelevant: a toy. A cute, entertaining (and, in a few cases, useful) toy. But a toy nonetheless. The heavy development will continue to happen in udev, and the devices that will dominate in the future (touchscreens, bluetooth input and audio devices, hardware that has a highly dynamic change rate) will only be supported by udev. The mdev hack will be useful maybe to only some guys, and even then udev would be able to do the same (and more). The use of an initramfs (or, alternatively, having /usr in the same partition as /), and maybe the move of /bin to /usr/bin and /lib to /usr/lib will be made, and in the future most of the interesting software will simply assume that this is how a system works. Maybe we will even stop to use the ridiculous short directory names from the stone age, and we will start using sensible names: /usr -> /System /etc -> /Config /var -> /Variable I feel a deep respect for the people working on making mdev a "replacement" of udev; it is not an easy task (even if it only works for a really small subset of the use cases udev covers), and something that I certainly would never do. But their hack (as beautiful as it may be) will never be used by the majority of Linux users, and probably not even by the majority of Gentoo users (if my interpretation of the discussion on gentoo-dev is correct). And with the pass of time it will be harder and harder to keep the hack working with new hardware, new software, and new use cases. But, hey, this is FOSS; you guys go nuts hacking in whatever feature (or anti-feature) you like. As in the case of this mdev hack, it may even be included in the Gentoo ebuilds. Just don't expect it to be supported forever, don't expect it to support general-purpose setups, and certainly don't call it "a victory". It's just the same history as always: the people writing the code are the ones calling the shots. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] bluetooth and headset with gentoo...
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Tamer Higazi wrote: > Hi people! > I am not getting smart how to connect my bluetooth headset on gentoo > linux having a continues connection with an alsa device. > > Is there anybody here who did that before?! I do it all the time. > For any support from you I would thank you. I use GNOME and PulseAudio. It just works. You go to Bluetooth Settings, add a new device, detect the headset, do the pairing and that's it. You can dynamically change from the headset to the built in sound card (or cards), or set individual programs to work with the headset (like Skype, for example). I'm using GNOME 3.0 and PulseAudio 1.0, but it worked like this since GNOME 2.2x. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gnome-control-center any way to configure without pulseaudio?
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > An answer from a different Walter ... > >> I also don't use pulse - plain ALSA is good enough for me - but looking >> over the design goals for pulseaudio I see a decent attempt to deal >> with audio properly for the future. These days we have computers and >> devices that can interact with many other things in weird and >> wonderful ways and software needs to deal with that. > > [...deletia...] > >> I just curious why you think that it's not useful to the ordinary >> user in a generic wide way. > > I'll throw the question back to you. What specific benefits do you > see? Not just generalities, but real life benfits, please. Bluetooth headset,configured with two or three clicks of a mouse. And then reroute the sound of Skype (or whatever app) to the headset while nice background music still plays on the speakers. > Sound > daemons in general seem to be solutions in search of a problem. And if > they couldn't find any problems to solve, they'd make up some new ones > of their own. I remember the first I heard of pulseaudio was all the > weeping and moaning of people on this forum and the GTALUG (Toronto area > linux mailing list) trying to get sound working again after installing > pulseaudio. Have you tried PulseAudio lately? I haven't heard complains in a long time. > Remember arts and esd? They went the way of HAL. Yeah, because they sucked. Pulse doesn't (haven't in a long time; almost all the complains were made years ago). The architecture of esd and aRts was wrong from the beginning; not necessarily the fault of the devs, they were the first tries at a sound daemon. Pulse (which was PolypAudio before) learn from those mistakes and then it had its own set of evolving pains (that's when a lot of people, specially using distributions packaging before time, complained about it). HAL was different; it was to please the "lets be portable" crowd. IMHO, it was doomed from the beginning. > Nuff said. The > thing to remember is that humans cannot multitask audio very well. Try > listening to 2 radio stations at once, and see what I mean. Well, I talk with Skype and listen to background music all the time (see above). And kids these days seem to be able to handle more data streams at the same time; just some days ago I saw a 15yo cousin of mine chatting on Skype while she heard background music *and* watched and listened to a music video on YouTube. Maybe this shiny new stuff is not for the old guys like us. But I certainly like it; I love my blueetooth headset, and it "just works" with PulseAudio and Bluez (and GNOME on top of them). Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] lost wireless network
On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 6:52 AM, pat wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:46:37 +0100, Florian Philipp wrote
>> Am 28.01.2012 12:38, schrieb pat:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I've used wireless network about half of a year ago. Now I need it and it
>> > doesn't start :-( My gentoo is up to date.
>> >
>> > I'm using network manager (and it's nm-applet).
>> >
>> > Wireless info:
>> > description: Wireless interface
>> > product: WiFi Link 6000 Series
>> > vendor: Intel Corporation
>> > capabilities: pm msi pciexpress bus_master cap_list ethernet physical
>> > wireless
>> > configuration: broadcast=yes driver=iwlagn driverversion=3.0.6-tuxonice
>> > firmware=9.221.4.1 build 25532 latency=0 link=no multicast=yes
>> > wireless=IEEE
>> > 802.11abgn
>> >
>> > After switching on, the dmesg says:
>> > iwlagn :02:00.0: RF_KILL bit toggled to enable radio.
>> > usb 2-1.7: new full speed USB device number 78 using ehci_hcd
>> >
>> > but wireless control doesn't indicate that it's on and nm-applies says the
>> > wireless is disabled by hw switch.
>> >
>> > It worked on tuxonice-sources-2.6.38-r1 but now it doesn't work on it too
>> > :-(
>> > Current kernel is tuxonice-sources-3.0.6 (planing upgrade to 3.0.17, but
>> > only
>> > with wireless :-) ).
>> >
>> > Please, could someone help me? I have no idea where to start :-\
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Pat
>> >
>>
>> Do you have the rfkill module loaded?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Florian Philipp
>
> Yes.
> rfkill 15504 1 cfg80211
I think Florian meant the rfkill package:
net-wireless/rfkill
Install it, and run "rfkill list"; mine says:
# rfkill list
0: sony-wifi: Wireless LAN
Soft blocked: no
Hard blocked: no
1: sony-bluetooth: Bluetooth
Soft blocked: no
Hard blocked: no
3: phy0: Wireless LAN
Soft blocked: no
Hard blocked: no
31: hci0: Bluetooth
Soft blocked: no
Hard blocked: no
As you can see, all of them say "Hard blocked: no". If in your case
one says "Hard blocked: yes", you can change it with "rfkill unblock
wlan0", for example.
Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] net-print/cups-1.4.8-r1: samba use flag?
2012/1/28 Niccolò Belli : > Hi, > Why did you remove the samba use flag? >From the ChangeLog (http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/net-print/cups/ChangeLog?view=markup): 27 Jan 2012; Andreas K. Huettel cups-1.4.8-r1.ebuild, cups-1.4.8-r23.ebuild, cups-1.5.0-r3.ebuild: Remove unused useflag samba, bug 373849 Apparently, it wasn't used. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] lost wireless network
On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 10:45 AM, pat wrote: [ Humongous snip ] > Still the same :-| Seems really weird. I can only think the following options: 1. Something is messing up with NetworkManager. 1.a. Can be possible that the /etc/init.d/net.* scripts are running alongside NetworkManager? I don't use OpenRC (I moved to systemd), but I clearly remember that for NetworkManager to run OK in Gentoo you had to disable the net.* services in /etc/rc.conf: rc_hotplug="!net.*" 1.b. Maybe something is wrong with your NetworkManager/wpa_supplicant installation; try deleting (after making a backup, of course) the following directories/files: /etc/NetworkManager /etc/wpa_supplicant /etc/conf.d/net and then emerge again both packages: emerge -1v networkmanger wpa_supplicant And try again after a reboot. 2. Maybe (for some weird reason) NetworkManager refuses to work in your system. If this is the case, disable all your network services (avahi*, cups, NetworkManager, net.*), and boot to a console. When I'm dealing with this kind of stuff, I even disable X, just to be sure: rc-update del NetworkManager ... rc-update del xdm reboot When you are in your console, try connecting to a WEP access point by hand: ifconfig wlan0 up iwconfig wlan0 essid MYESSID key MYPASSWORD channel MYCHANNEL dhclient/dhcpcd wlan0 If it works, then is something related to NetworkManager. If it doesn't, I can't really thing of anything else at the moment. Regards, and good luck. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] lost wireless network
On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Hinnerk van Bruinehsen wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 02.02.2012 23:03, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >> On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 10:45 AM, pat wrote: [ >> Humongous snip ] >> >>> Still the same :-| >> >> Seems really weird. I can only think the following options: >> >> 1. Something is messing up with NetworkManager. >> >> 1.a. Can be possible that the /etc/init.d/net.* scripts are >> running alongside NetworkManager? I don't use OpenRC (I moved to >> systemd), but I clearly remember that for NetworkManager to run OK >> in Gentoo you had to disable the net.* services in /etc/rc.conf: >> >> rc_hotplug="!net.*" >> >> 1.b. Maybe something is wrong with your >> NetworkManager/wpa_supplicant installation; try deleting (after >> making a backup, of course) the following directories/files: >> >> /etc/NetworkManager /etc/wpa_supplicant /etc/conf.d/net >> >> and then emerge again both packages: >> >> emerge -1v networkmanger wpa_supplicant >> >> And try again after a reboot. >> >> 2. Maybe (for some weird reason) NetworkManager refuses to work in >> your system. If this is the case, disable all your network >> services (avahi*, cups, NetworkManager, net.*), and boot to a >> console. When I'm dealing with this kind of stuff, I even disable >> X, just to be sure: >> >> rc-update del NetworkManager ... rc-update del xdm reboot >> >> When you are in your console, try connecting to a WEP access point >> by hand: >> >> ifconfig wlan0 up iwconfig wlan0 essid MYESSID key MYPASSWORD >> channel MYCHANNEL dhclient/dhcpcd wlan0 >> >> If it works, then is something related to NetworkManager. >> >> If it doesn't, I can't really thing of anything else at the >> moment. >> >> Regards, and good luck. > > Doesn't seem NetworkManagerrelated - he/she said, that it isn't > working with wicd either. > The logs indicate that rfkill disables the device only a few seconds > after each activation. Which *could* (I believe) be caused by the /etc/init.d/net.* scripts running in parallel to both NM and wicd. I don't know wicd (haven't used), but it *could* be a problem with NM. It's just an idea. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] How to remove the "clear screen" just before login
On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 3:15 AM, Helmut Jarausch
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm using openrc (0.9.8.4) and I don't use any (graphical) login
> manager. After some upgrade of openrc (not too long ago), something
> clears the screen just before I'm offered to log in.
> But I'd like to see the last messages of openrc.
> What gets executed just before I can login? Or, where can I stop
> blanking the terminal just before login.
>From util-linux-2.20.1-r1.ebuild:
pkg_postinst() {
elog "The agetty util now clears the terminal by default. You"
elog "might want to add --noclear to your /etc/inittab lines."
}
Maybe it's this?
Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: amarok fade down
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 7:40 AM, Stephane Guedon wrote: > Le samedi 4 février 2012 17:52:17, Nikos Chantziaras a écrit : >> On 02/04/2012 05:04 PM, Stephane Guedon wrote: >> > Hi all >> > >> > For a long time, my amarok doesn't fade down anymore each time I use vlc >> > as phonon backend. As xine is said to be deprecated, I should switch. >> > >> > Does anyone of you use vlc as a phonon-backend and succeed in amarok fade >> > down ? >> > >> > If no, what else to do ? >> >> The VLC backend is still quite buggy. Fades don't work and it's very >> slow when seeking. Automatically playing the next song in the list is >> also broken. >> >> Try the GStreamer backend instead. It's also not as good as the Xine >> backend, but still somewhat better than the VLC one. I'm astounded >> though as to why KDE drops the best backend and keeps two broken ones. >> Really stupid decisions going on lately in KDE camp. > > The bad thing is that it install many other piece of software ! > > Gstreamer is from gnome ! GStreamer is not "from" GNOME, they are an independent project, hosted at freedesktop.org. GStreamer uses glib, which arguably is originally from GNOME, but everything uses glib nowadays (including KDE, check the dependencies for systemsettings). > Why using it rather than xine which is from kde ? Xine is not from KDE. Xine existed before, if I remember correctly, and doesn't use any KDE, Qt (nor GNOME, GTK+ and glib for that matter) libraries. > Really strange decision ! Actually no; the GStreamer plugin architecture is really nice, and nowadays any GST based player can reproduce basically anything under the sun. VLC is not as nice (IMHO), but last time I checked it worked almost as good as GStreamer. Xine was OK ten years ago; it was what I used to watch DVD's. Back then it was the only DVD player able to easily change subtitles (important to me, since back then I didn't understand spoken English). Then it was split into xine-ui and xine-lib, and then (if again I remember correctly), xine-lib was given a plugin mechanism. In other words, it wasn't designed; it evolved into the current form which can use plugins, and which is the only sane way to handle all the audio and video formats that come and go all the time. In short, both GStreamer and VLC can do anything that Xine do, and they probably do it better. If something is not working properly, it probably is a problem with the integration with KDE (via phonon). This should be fixed by them in a short time. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: amarok fade down
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > On 02/05/2012 06:02 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >> >> In short, both GStreamer and VLC can do anything that Xine do, and >> they probably do it better. If something is not working properly, it >> probably is a problem with the integration with KDE (via phonon). This >> should be fixed by them in a short time. > > > Stuff doesn't get fixed. Instead, new bugs keep piling up. KDE is going down > the drain. If the trend continues, KDE 4.9 will be of the same stability as > 4.0. When Totem (the GNOME media player) changed its backend from Xine to GStreamer (way back in 2004 or 2005), it took a while to fix all the regressions. But eventually it got really, really nice. And back then GStreamer was not as nice as it is now. Have a little faith in the devs and do your part (fill bugs, use the betas, follow upstream closely), and in the end everything sorta kinda maybe will work out. Sixteen years using Linux as my exclusive OS has taught me that's the only sane way to see things. The alternative is to get angry a lot and grow ulcers and maybe cancer. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Another issue/questions updating udev from 164-r2 to 171-r5
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> I just updated these, and am unsure how to deal with the issues...
>
> First issue:
>
> ***
>
> Found sources for kernel version:
> 3.0.6-gentoo
> Checking for suitable kernel configuration options...
> ERROR: setup
> CONFIG_BLK_DEV_BSG: is not set when it should be.
> WARN: setup
> Please check to make sure these options are set correctly.
> Failure to do so may cause unexpected problems.
>
> I can probably find this when make'ing the new kernel, but if someone knows
> exactly where to find it that would be appreciated.
For the next time you need to find a kernel option:
1. go to /usr/src/linux
2. make menuconfig
3. press "/" (this activates search)
4. enter the config option you are looking
5. press Enter
The menu configurator will tell you where is the option you are
looking for, in this cas (CONFIG_BLK_DEV_BSG):
Symbol: BLK_DEV_BSG [=n]
Type : boolean
Prompt: Block layer SG support v4
Defined at block/Kconfig:50
Depends on: BLOCK [=y]
Location:
-> Enable the block layer (BLOCK [=y])
Selected by: BLK_DEV_BSGLIB [=n] && BLOCK [=y] || SCSI_SAS_ATTRS
[=n] && SCSI [=y]
As you can see, it's an option at the top of the kernel menu config.
> ***
>
> Next issue/question (from post install log):
>
> ***
>
> LOG: postinst
>
> Updating persistent-net rules file
>
> restarting udevd now.
>
> persistent-net does assigning fixed names to network devices.
> If you have problems with the persistent-net rules,
> just delete the rules file
> rm /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
> and then reboot.
>
> This may however number your devices in a different way than they are now.
>
> So - how do I know if I need to worry about this?
Reboot, if your network works, everything is fine. If it's not, remove
the file /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules (don't worry, it's
autogenerated), and reboot. If the problem persists, just check that
the names in that file correspond to the services in /etc/init.d. For
example, mine says
# PCI device 0x10ec:0x8136 (r8169)
SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*",
ATTR{address}=="40:61:86:4e:a6:57", ATTR{dev_id}=="0x0",
ATTR{type}=="1", KERNEL=="eth*", NAME="eth0"
So (if I used OpenRC) I would need to check that /etc/init.d/net.eth0
it's a symlink to /etc/init.d/net.lo.
>
>
> Next issue/question (from post install log):
>
>
>
> WARN: postinst
>
> If you build an initramfs including udev, then please
> make sure that the /sbin/udevadm binary gets included,
> and your scripts changed to use it,as it replaces the
> old helper apps udevinfo, udevtrigger, ...
>
> mount options for directory /dev are no longer
> set in /etc/udev/udev.conf, but in /etc/fstab
> as for other directories.
>
> If you use /dev/md/*, /dev/loop/* or /dev/rd/*,
> then please migrate over to using the device names
> /dev/md*, /dev/loop* and /dev/ram*.
> The devfs-compat rules have been removed.
> For reference see Bug #269359.
>
> Rules for /dev/hd* devices have been removed
> Please migrate to libata.
>
> How do I know if I need to worry about any of this stuff? I'm a bit lost
> here...
Do you use an initramfs? Look at /boot/grub/grub.conf, is there a line
starting with "initrd"? If not, worry not.
> Thanks for any advice/comments...
Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] distcc - amd64 and x86
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Samuraiii wrote: > Hello, > > I have (right now) 3 computers runing Gentoo and as two of them are with > only 1GB of ram - which for libreoffice compiling is not enough. Mmmh. LibreOffice 3.4.x requires 1 GB of RAM, all other versions in portage requires only 512 MB (including 3.5.x). Are you sure it is your RAM the problem, or maybe you have /var/tmp (and therefore /var/tmp/portage) in tmpfs? If that's the case, what I do is: 1. add the following line to /etc/portage/package.env: app-office/libreoffice notmpfs.conf 2. have the file /etc/portage/env/notmpfs.conf with the following: # cat /etc/portage/env/notmpfs.conf PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/notmpfs" 3. have the directory /var/notmpfs: drwxrwxrwt 3 root root 4096 Feb 1 20:47 notmpfs This way, all my packages get compiled in the tmpfs (and therefore much faster, since it is memory), and libreoffice (which is to big to fit in there) gets compiled on disk. Hope it helps. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Another issue/questions updating udev from 164-r2 to 171-r5
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Tanstaafl wrote: [snip] > Ok, I apparently don't, but... are you saying that all of the stuff that > follows the initramfs warning *all* pertains to using an initramfs? No, you're right; this: mount options for directory /dev are no longer set in /etc/udev/udev.conf, but in /etc/fstab as for other directories. You only have to worry if you set mount options using udev; almost nobody did that. If you did (I think you'll remember) you only need to set the mount options in fstab (which is what the Gentoo Handbook describes). This line: If you use /dev/md/*, /dev/loop/* or /dev/rd/*, then please migrate over to using the device names /dev/md*, /dev/loop* and /dev/ram*. The devfs-compat rules have been removed. For reference see Bug #269359. Again, I think you'll remember if you used any of those devices, so you are probably fine. And lastly: Rules for /dev/hd* devices have been removed Please migrate to libata. If you don't have IDE devices, nothing to worry about. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] gnome-shell behavior
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 5:51 AM, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: > > Pressing the super-key/windows-key and entering something via keyboard > does not work anymore. It seems to crash the gnome-shell or so, it gets > reloaded, but no way to start applications via keyboard right now . > > I rebuilt all around gnome-shell, clutter ... disabled extensions, > didn't help so far. > > Couldn't find a matching bug on gentoo bugzilla, does anyone know that > behavior? > > gnome-base/gnome-shell 3.2.2.1 What does ~/.xsession-errors says? Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
[gentoo-user] A systemd-only Gentoo system
Hi; I've been running systemd in Gentoo since September from 2010, and it works great for me: all my machines run it at this point. Right now, we are getting really close to the point where we will be able to uninstall sys-apps/openrc, sys-apps/sysvinit and sys-apps/baselayout, and run a systemd-only Gentoo system. I wanted to try to do exactly that, using a custom overlay, and it turns out it's not that difficult: almost all the pieces are already in the portage tree, and most of the ones missing are being tracked right now in the Gentoo bugzilla. So after creating my overlay and testing it on all my machines, I wanted to share the experience with others. Please note that this is as experimental as it can get, and certainly not for the faint of heart. You will be running the latest versions of the kernel, systemd, udev and probably dracut, and you will be saying goodbye to (up until now) core components of Gentoo: baselayout and openrc. If you follow all of the steps, you will not even have /etc/init.d and /etc/conf.d directories. If you already run systemd, the steps are not that difficult; if you are not running systemd, I *strongly* recommend first to install it and try it before attempting to use this overlay. The overlay lives in https://github.com/canek-pelaez/gentoo-systemd-only and you can get it with git clone git://github.com/canek-pelaez/gentoo-systemd-only.git There is a README on it with step by step instructions, that you can also read in this page: http://xochitl.matem.unam.mx/~canek/gentoo-systemd-only/index.html The normal warnings apply: I do not take any responsibility for any harm your system may suffer, and it is intended for Gentoo users that know what they are doing. If something breaks, you get to keep the pieces. If you do try it and find any problems with the overlay, please let me know and I will try to fix them (and please don't bother the Gentoo devs with said problems: they know nothing of this overlay, and I'm doing this all by my own). I also will try to keep the overlay sync'ed with the portage tree. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A systemd-only Gentoo system
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 10:32 AM, James wrote: > Canek Peláez Valdés gmail.com> writes: > > >> Hi; I've been running systemd in Gentoo since September from 2010, and >> it works great for me: all my machines run it at this point. > > > Well, I'm curious. > > How well does systemd work with uClibc based systems? More > specifically does systemd work well with embedded linux systems? I don't know first hand: I use systemd in my desktop and laptop machines, a media center, and a couple of servers. However, ProFUSION (http://profusion.mobi/) is a company specialized in embedded systems, and they are huge supporters (and contributors) of systemd. I hear the embedded guys in general like a lot the idea of systemd. > How does systemd work with a system that uses SElinux? I don't use SELinux: however, the first distribution that shipped systemd by default (Fedora) uses SELinux also by default, so I would *think* it works. But again, I don't use it. > How well does a group of (systemd) systems work > with a wide deployment of a distributed file system, > such as BTRFS? No idea. I personally use ext4, and I'm not looking forward to move my systems to btrfs. > Just curious if you know about any of these areas related > to systemd. Not really; I think my use cases are pretty simple and common. But if you are interested in systemd, I think you should try it first in simple setups, and certainly as provided by the Gentoo devs. My overlay is for people like me, who already use systemd (in quite common setups), and who would like to experiment a system without OpenRC just for the "fun" of trying something new, inestable, and potentially dangerous. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] gnome-shell behavior
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: > Am 20.02.2012 21:23, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger: >> Am 2012-02-20 19:29, schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: >> >>> What does ~/.xsession-errors says? >> >> checked that already, I didn't see anything obvious in there (at least >> for ME) ... will check back tomorrow, I am not at the particular machine >> right now. > > triggered the behavior right now. > > -> .xsession-errors (some strings in german, yes) > > gnome-shell-calendar-server[5994]: Got HUP on stdin - exiting > gnome-session[5865]: WARNING: Application 'gnome-shell.desktop' killed > by signal > ** Message: applet now removed from the notification area > (gnome-shell:8944): folks-DEBUG: individual-aggregator.vala:310: Setting > primary store IDs to defaults. > (gnome-shell:8944): folks-DEBUG: individual-aggregator.vala:338: Primary > store IDs are 'eds' and 'system'. > JS LOG: GNOME Shell started at Tue Feb 21 2012 17:00:37 GMT+0100 (CET) > Fensterverwalter-Warnung:Log level 16: get_all_cb: couldn't retrieve > system settings properties: (25) Launch helper exited with unknown > return code 1. > ** Message: applet now embedded in the notification area > Fensterverwalter-Warnung:Log level 16: fetch_connections_done: error > fetching connections: (25) Launch helper exited with unknown return code 1. > Fensterverwalter-Warnung:Log level 16: nm_client_get_devices: error > getting devices: Launch helper exited with unknown return code 1 > > JS LOG: NetworkManager is not running, hiding... > It looks like gnome-shell-calendar-server got a HUP signal. Do you use Evolution's calendar thingy? Did you set up the "online accounts" of GNOME 3 with Google calendar? Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Gnome 3 + Online Accounts
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Carlos Sura wrote: > Hello, > > I am using now Gnome 3, and I found very intesting and useful the option for > "online accounts" however, I would like to add my Google account, but I just > can't. I've been searching thru Google and Gentoo Forums on how to fix the > error I am getting, but I have not found any useful or any fix yet. I want > to know if any of you has suceffuly added a Google account or isn't working > at all on Gentoo? Since, I tried on Fedora and seems to be working cool. I have my Google Account working with GNOME 3, but I set it months ago. I don't remember any problem doing it, and now it works (at least mail wih Evolution; with Empathy tells me that I have a network error). > Here is the picture of the error I am getting when I try to add my > account: http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/4636/errorty.jpg > > I am using ~AM64, and I've set the gnome-desktop profile (as in the Gentoo > Forum suggested) > > > Is there something missing? We have too little information to help you. What versions of gnome, gnome-shell, gnome-online-accounts, empathy, evolution do you have? What use flags? When was your last sync? Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Anybody have kdebluetooth working?
El 24/02/2012 09:31, "Juan Diego Tascón" escribió: > > I have never been able to pair in a2dp mode and pulseaudio with either > kdebluetooth nor gnome bluetooth, only blueman seems to be doing a > good job for that In GNOME (both 2 and 3), you just add the bluetooth headset, and in the sound settings you choose A2DP. That's all. I have never touched the config files under /etc/bluetooth. Regards.
Re: [gentoo-user] What is the best audio system?
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Mark Knecht wrote: > On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Paul Hartman > wrote: >> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Mark Knecht wrote: >>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Paul Hartman >>> wrote: >>>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Willie Matthews >>>> wrote: >>>>> Right now I use pulseaudio on my laptop and desktop. Is there something >>>>> else out there that can handle multiple audio streams? >>>> >>>> alsa dmix >>>> >>> >>> Isn't dmix pretty much automatic in als these days? I suspect that's >>> how KDE supports multiple audio streams by default. >> >> Yep, I think it's automatic since alsa 1.0.9 or so. >> > > Yeah, when you wrote dmix the light turned on about how KDE (and I > suspect most desktop managers) is likely doing it. GNOME uses PulseAudio by default, and since 3.0 is actually mandatory. I believe Xfce uses PA also, and (please, tell me if I'm wrong) KDE also by default uses PA. Jack (according to the PA maintainers) is for professional audio processing. And please keep in mind that PulseAudio is so much more than "multiple audio streams". It's per-application volume control, seamlessly moving audio streams from one audio card to another, and really easy management of things like USB soundcards and bluetooth headsets. dmix *may* be able to handle multiple audio streams (in practice, in my personal experience, it always requires more work than PA); but it will never be able to do the other stuff PA handles. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] What is the best audio system?
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 08:07:21PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: > >> >>> Isn't dmix pretty much automatic in als these days? I suspect that's >> >>> how KDE supports multiple audio streams by default. >> >> >> >> Yep, I think it's automatic since alsa 1.0.9 or so. >> >> >> > >> > Yeah, when you wrote dmix the light turned on about how KDE (and I >> > suspect most desktop managers) is likely doing it. >> >> GNOME uses PulseAudio by default, and since 3.0 is actually mandatory. >> I believe Xfce uses PA also, and (please, tell me if I'm wrong) KDE >> also by default uses PA. > > KDE has the phonon layer, which features a PA useflag, but also a flag for > gstreamer and vlc. > >> dmix *may* be able to handle multiple audio streams (in practice, in >> my personal experience, it always requires more work than PA); but it >> will never be able to do the other stuff PA handles. > > This seems like a dumb question (for I was a strict PA denier until recently > and have been using alsa-only since always), but does PA handle OSS > applications better than alsa/dmix? I don't think I use any application that doesn't support PulseAudio, GStreamer or ffmpeg. Both GStreamer and ffmpeg can use PulseAudio as backend. Heck, even Xine-lib (which I haven't used in years) supports PulseAudio. That being said, PulseAudio runs on top of ALSA, so I don't see how the first could handle OSS apps better than the second. > Whenever I want to use sidplay, which only > speaks OSS, I need to stop all other audio programs (e.g. press Stop in the > Clementine player if it's only paused), or else /dev/dsp was busy. With PulseAudio I haven't had none of these problems in ages. But again, all my used apps support PA either directly or indirectly. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: What is the best audio system?
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > On 28/02/12 04:30, Frank Steinmetzger wrote: >> >> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 08:07:21PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >> >>>>>> Isn't dmix pretty much automatic in als these days? I suspect that's >>>>>> how KDE supports multiple audio streams by default. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yep, I think it's automatic since alsa 1.0.9 or so. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yeah, when you wrote dmix the light turned on about how KDE (and I >>>> suspect most desktop managers) is likely doing it. >>> >>> >>> GNOME uses PulseAudio by default, and since 3.0 is actually mandatory. >>> I believe Xfce uses PA also, and (please, tell me if I'm wrong) KDE >>> also by default uses PA. >> >> >> KDE has the phonon layer, which features a PA useflag, but also a flag for >> gstreamer and vlc. > > > These are not related though. PA is not a substitute for gstreamer or vlc. Indeed, but both GStreamer and VLC can run on top of PulseAudio. They can also (of course) run on top of ALSA, but then you loose all the nice things PA provides. At least with GStreamer (directly on top of ALSA) you don't get per-application volume, seamlessly changing sound cards or easy integration with USB soundcards and bluetooth headsets; I don't use VLC, but I believe is the same. ALSA is the bottom of the stack, PulseAudio goes above it, and then you can have GStreamer, VLC, ffmpeg, Xine-lib or whatever, which are the high-level libraries. All of the high-level libraries cantalk to ALSA directly; but none of them provide by themselves the features that PulseAudio has. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Autoloading modules..,
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:22 PM, wrote: > Hi, > > I want to load snd-seq since the /dev/snd/seq device comes up with the > wrong permission, if this modules is not loaded. The result is a > defunct qjackctrl. > > I entered > > snd-seq > > into > > /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-3.2 > > and it does *not* autoload. > > I am running > > Linux 3.2.9 > > (vanilla kernel). > > What do have to do additionally to acchieve what I had intended? > > Thank you very much in advance for any help! Probably not the answer you are looking for but, why do you not compile the module directly into the kernel? Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Autoloading modules..,
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:36 PM, wrote: > Canek Peláez Valdés [12-03-02 05:32]: >> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:22 PM, wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > I want to load snd-seq since the /dev/snd/seq device comes up with the >> > wrong permission, if this modules is not loaded. The result is a >> > defunct qjackctrl. >> > >> > I entered >> > >> > snd-seq >> > >> > into >> > >> > /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-3.2 >> > >> > and it does *not* autoload. >> > >> > I am running >> > >> > Linux 3.2.9 >> > >> > (vanilla kernel). >> > >> > What do have to do additionally to acchieve what I had intended? >> > >> > Thank you very much in advance for any help! >> >> Probably not the answer you are looking for but, why do you not >> compile the module directly into the kernel? >> >> Regards. >> -- >> Canek Peláez Valdés >> Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación >> Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México >> > > I heard -- not only in this list -- that loading modules, that > supports hardware, is better than integration the according > modules into the kernel. Really? Can't recall that comment on this list. It is certainly more work the first time you install a machine (you need to know your hardware), but in the long run it's easier for a lot of reasons, IMHO. I've been running my kernels with everything I need included since ages; laptop with Intel video card, desktop with NVidia (thanks nouveau!), and every server I run. I use the nvidia binary module in my media center, and sometimes I install VMware or VirtualBox, and then I have a couple of modules hanging out. But usually lsmod returns nothing in my machines. In particular, all my ALSA drivers are included in my kernel, and they never give me trouble. But of course, none of this answers your original question. Good luck with that. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] LVM, /usr and really really bad thoughts.
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Dale wrote: > Howdy, > > Well, this is what I am thinking about jumping into. Ya'll ready for > this? I'm thinking about redoing my partition layout. I'm wanting to > keep / (root) on a normal ext4 file system. I want to put /usr, /var, > /home, and such on LVM. I been using that dracut thingy to build the > init thingy. Sorry, I'm full of thingys tonight. Maybe I need my meds? > Anyway, the init thingy seems to be working, I think. I asked a while > back how to tell for sure but it didn't get any replies so I am not real > sure it is. I do get this tho: > > root@fireball / # dmesg | grep init > [ 0.00] Command line: root=/dev/sda3 init=/sbin/init > [ 0.00] initial memory mapped : 0 - 2000 > [ 0.00] init_memory_mapping: -bfc91000 > [ 0.00] init_memory_mapping: 0001-00044000 > [ 0.00] Kernel command line: root=/dev/sda3 init=/sbin/init > [ 0.00] Memory: 16387452k/17825792k available (6262k kernel code, > 1052572k absent, 385768k reserved, 6647k data, 4852k init) > [ 0.003045] Security Framework initialized > [ 0.388120] SCSI subsystem initialized > [ 0.410739] pnp: PnP ACPI init > [ 0.787822] Trying to unpack rootfs image as initramfs... > [ 0.867787] Freeing initrd memory: 5084k freed > [ 0.880111] audit: initializing netlink socket (disabled) > [ 0.880439] type=2000 audit(1331081750.879:1): initialized > [ 0.912626] fuse init (API version 7.17) > [ 1.258561] ehci_hcd :00:12.2: init command 0010005 (park)=0 > ithresh=1 period=512 RUN > [ 1.270152] ehci_hcd :00:13.2: init command 0010005 (park)=0 > ithresh=1 period=512 RUN > [ 1.583458] device-mapper: ioctl: 4.22.0-ioctl (2011-10-19) > initialised: dm-de...@redhat.com > [ 4.258421] init-early.sh used greatest stack depth: 3696 bytes left > [ 4.503735] init.sh used greatest stack depth: 3576 bytes left > root@fireball / # dmesg | grep dracut > [ 3.018189] dracut: Checking reiserfs: /dev/sda3 > [ 3.018531] dracut: issuing reiserfsck -a /dev/sda3 > [ 3.033879] dracut: Reiserfs super block in block 16 on 0x803 of > format 3.6 with standard journal > [ 3.034463] dracut: Blocks (total/free): 4883760/2502678 by 4096 bytes > [ 3.034781] dracut: Filesystem is clean > [ 3.035210] dracut: Remounting /dev/sda3 with -o ro > [ 3.082413] dracut: Mounted root filesystem /dev/sda3 > [ 3.158322] dracut: Switching root > root@fireball / # > > And grub looks like this: > > title=Initramfs-new_kernel > root (hd0,0) > kernel /boot/bzImage-3.2.2-1 root=/dev/sda3 init=/sbin/init > initrd /initramfs-3.2.2-1.img > > Does anyone think dracut is not working? I need to make certain before > diving into the next step. > > I have a second drive that is plenty large enough. Thanks Kashani. I > plan to move everything currently to the larger drive then just sort of > do a fresh install on my regular OS drive. > > One question I have right off the bat, how do I tell dracut to mount > /usr? I think it used to have a usr USE flag but that seems to have > disappeared during a upgrade. Is it magic? Does it need to mount /var > as well for logging? > > Just for the record, dracut is the only way I could get a init thingy to > build and let me boot. I tried different ways and they just didn't > work. At least I think dracut is working which is a good start. ;-) > > I hope there is a few dracut users on here that have at least /usr on a > separate partition. I keep my /usr partition in /, but seeing the modules from dracut, the "magic" happens at: /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98usrmount/mount-usr.sh Basically, it seems that if /usr is specified in /etc/fstab, then dracut will mount it. It says nothing about LVM, but that is taken care of in the scripts at: /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/90lvm I'm not familiar with LVM, but it seems simple enough. And you can create and modify your own dracut modules, of course. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] LVM, /usr and really really bad thoughts.
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 10:16 PM, Dale wrote: > Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: > >> I keep my /usr partition in /, but seeing the modules from dracut, the >> "magic" happens at: >> >> /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98usrmount/mount-usr.sh >> >> Basically, it seems that if /usr is specified in /etc/fstab, then >> dracut will mount it. It says nothing about LVM, but that is taken >> care of in the scripts at: >> >> /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/90lvm >> >> I'm not familiar with LVM, but it seems simple enough. And you can >> create and modify your own dracut modules, of course. >> >> Regards. > > > I thought is was magic. lol I'm glad to get confirmation of this. > Also, does it look to you like it is using the init thingy now? From: [0.787822] Trying to unpack rootfs image as initramfs... I would say it's using an initramfs; if you only specify the dracut created one in grub or lilo, that should be the one. And from /usr/lib/dracut/modules.d/98usrmount/mount-usr.sh:36, you should grep for the string "Mounting /usr" in your logs. It seems that the loglevel is info, so it should pop up by default. Finally, and it's none of my bussines, but reiserfs? Seriously? Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] LVM, /usr and really really bad thoughts.
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 2:50 PM, pk wrote: > On 2012-03-10 16:35, Neil Bothwick wrote: > >> I'm using the latest testing with a separate /usr and no problems. > > So udev-181 (masked) is ok to use without initrd and separate /usr > then? Thanks for the info! That's one case; I would not take it for granted that it would work in any other case. The fact is, udev upstream does not support a separated /usr without an initramfs since . That Neil got it working may be a fluke, good luck, the phase of the moon, or all from above combined. If you plan to keep a separated /usr and refuse to use an initramfs, I would recommend sticking to the last version *you* know for sure it works, or risk getting a nasty surprise at some upgrade. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] LVM, /usr and really really bad thoughts.
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 2:50 PM, pk wrote: > On 2012-03-10 16:35, Neil Bothwick wrote: > >> I'm using the latest testing with a separate /usr and no problems. > > So udev-181 (masked) is ok to use without initrd and separate /usr > then? Thanks for the info! Just posted to -devel, the news item regarding the unmasking of udev-181: "This news item is to inform you that once you upgrade to a version of udev >=181, if you have /usr on a separate partition, you must boot your system with an initramfs which pre-mounts /usr. "An initramfs which does this is created by >=sys-kernel/genkernel-3.4.25 or >=sys-kernel/dracut-017-r1. If you do not want to use these tools, be sure any initramfs you create pre-mounts /usr. "Also, if you are using OpenRC, you must upgrade to >= openrc-0.9.9. For more information on why this has been done, see the following url: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken"; The news item is being discussed, but something similar will be submitted as news item for every Gentoo user. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] LVM, /usr and really really bad thoughts.
2012/3/11 Jorge Martínez López : > Hi! > > I had some struggle with a separate /usr on top of LVM and the dracut > thing. I noticed that udev was complaining at boot that it could not > find some scripts. > > The usmount dracut module did not work for me because it could not > find /usr. So what I did was to include the fstab-sys smodule in > dracut: > > /etc/dracut.conf > > # Dracut modules to omit > omit_dracutmodules+="usrmount" > > # Dracut modules to add to the default > add_dracutmodules+="fstab-sys" > > Then I created /etc/fstab.sys with just the /usr partition > > /dev/disk/by-uuid/90d82b02-e6c2-4011-940e-783d12b0c4fe /usr > ext4 noatime 1 2 > > Dracut could only find the partition by using the uuid (use blkid to > find it easily). > The next step was to remove /usr from /etc/fstab to prevent /usr from > being mounted twice (the boot process does not like it). Mmmh. Could you try to use LABEL= in /etc/fstab (not /etc/fstab), and see if that way it gets mounted, and only once? The udev developers recommend using either UUID or LABEL; and LABEL it's easier (and prettier) to set. > The last obstacle is /etc/mtab. By the time /usr is mounted I believe > / is mounted as read only, so mount cannot update /etc/mtab. The > trivial solutions is to delete /etc/mtab and make it a symlink to > /proc/mounts . In that case it is always up to date. I think the link is to /proc/self/mounts; /proc/mounts it's a link to it, actually. > Of course, YMMV. Be careful when changing things that can prevent your > machine from booting and make sure you have a live CD at hand. Good advice. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5
ways will say, this is how our community works: people writing the code (as Walter is doing) are the ones that get things done. This is the correct (and only) way to address a problem (perceived or real) with the current status: write the code that does the thing the way you want it. Complaining and crying that you don't like the direction some part of the stack is taking is at best a waste of time, and at worst idiotic. Actually doing something about it (as Walter is doing) is the smart thing to do. I personally will not use Walt's work. Not in my desktop, laptop, nor in my servers or embedded systems (I don't know if my Media Center qualifies as "embedded", if I'm truthful); they all run amazingly well with systemd. But that's my decision: if anybody else wants to go the mdev route, that's their absolute right. This is open source: code talks. If anyone with enough interest and capabilities wants to implement any feature (or anti feature) they want, they will. That's what Walter is doing, and I sincerely salute that effort. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] how updating to gnome3 ?!
On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Tamer Higazi wrote: > Hi people! > I want to upgrade gnome 2.32 to gnome 3. > > First question, is it now officially supported by the gentoo team or > should I keep my fingers away of it?! > > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/gnome/howtos/gnome-3.2-upgrade.xml > > doesn't tell me a lot how to accomplish this task. Is there any official > documentation telling me how to doit, unmasking, flags etc I don't think any part of the GNOME 3.x stack is masked anymore, but it is still unstable. GNOME 3 is completely supported in Gentoo: I'm running GNOME 3.2, and everything works without a hitch. But, if you are running stable, and you are not used to fiddle in /etc/portage to unmask or keyword packages, I would recommend to wait for it to be stabilized. I don't think it will take that much longer. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: LVM, /usr and really really bad thoughts.
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 5:22 PM, Dale wrote: > Bruce Hill, Jr. wrote: >> >> >> >> On March 12, 2012 at 2:30 PM Michael Mol wrote: >> >>> Don't forget you're using Gentoo; you're implicitly not very far >>> removed from the skill levels of the developers themselves. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> :wq >>> >> >> Maybe you're not, but it only takes me a few minutes being around chithead >> and NeddySeagoon for me to realize "I ain't gotta Gentoo clue!" >> -- >> Happy Penguin Computers >`) >> 126 Fenco Drive ( \ >> Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ >> 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 >> support at happypenguincomputers dot com >> http://www.happypenguincomputers.com >> >> > > > I like that quote. I may not be dev material but I know this /usr mess > is not right. The only reason it is happening is because of one or two > distros that push it to make it easier for themselves. I have yet to see some hard evidence on this claim. > I think mdev has shown it can be fixed. As Alan said in other thread, it can be "fixed" (if you think is not right) for some very specific cases. Alan mentioned servers, really simple desktops with simple hotplug devices, and embedded systems. For mdev to "fix" the situation in the general case, it would have to cover all the setups udev covers. That means bluetooth devices (including keyboards and mice), USB soundcards, touch screens and the like, all of them being plugged and unplugged at any time in any order. Maybe someday mdev will be able to handle all the cases that udev does. If it does (which I honestly doubt), I'm pretty sure at that point it would have become as complex as udev, if not more, and it will probably need the same requirements that udev has. Including the simple one that for mounting a filesystem, the plumbing needed to mounting it has to be available before, and we cannot keep throwing everything directly on / so it can mount /usr. And BTW, the split between /bin /usr/bin has always been idiotic and it was originally an accident: you can read the true story of the split in http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html But for the simple cases that Alan mentioned, the mdev solution is perfectly fine if for some reason someone keeps refusing to use an initramfs. > Given time, it just may replace > udev I'm willing to bet a beer this will not happen. > then the udev dev can screw up his own stuff on not bother other > distros. No one is forcing any part of the stack on anyone. The "other" distros follows because it's the correct technical solution. At least I'm convinced it is; I have yet to see some hard evidence on the contrary. > I'm giving mdev some thought here. I want /usr on LVM which > means it has to be separate. And in this case an initramfs is the best option, so we can stop polluting / with support for everything necessary under the sun (now or in the future) for mounting /usr. That's the way I see it anyhow. Doesn't stop mdev from being a beautiful hack. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] bindmount or symlink?
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote: > I am seriously thinking of splitting the storage of directories under /usr, > e.g., /usr/portage and /usr/source actually living somewhere else, on > different partition and different filesystem. Let's say something mounted on > /mnt/Persistent. > > My question: should I use bindmount or symlinks to do that? What's the > drawbacks/benefits for either? I'm sorry, I don't understand. What's the problem of having the following in /etc/fstab? LABEL=Portage /usr/portageext4noatime,auto 0 2 LABEL=Source/usr/source ext4noatime,auto 0 2 (Replace LABEL=Portage with /dev/sda7, if you want to.) Why do you need to bindmount or link the directories when you can mount them wherever you want? Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] bindmount or symlink?
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 11:39 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote: > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:11, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote: >>> I am seriously thinking of splitting the storage of directories under /usr, >>> e.g., /usr/portage and /usr/source actually living somewhere else, on >>> different partition and different filesystem. Let's say something mounted on >>> /mnt/Persistent. >>> >>> My question: should I use bindmount or symlinks to do that? What's the >>> drawbacks/benefits for either? >> >> I'm sorry, I don't understand. What's the problem of having the >> following in /etc/fstab? >> >> LABEL=Portage /usr/portage ext4 noatime,auto >> 0 2 >> LABEL=Source /usr/source ext4 noatime,auto >> 0 2 >> >> (Replace LABEL=Portage with /dev/sda7, if you want to.) >> >> Why do you need to bindmount or link the directories when you can >> mount them wherever you want? >> > > Because I am avoiding "single partition per directory". And a slight > mistake in my original email, it's not just /usr but also /var (and > other root-based directories that will not interfere with boot-up / > operations) > > Let me give an example: > > Let's say I have /dev/sdc and /dev/sdd, both having single partition > each (/dev/sdc1 and /dev/sdd1). > > /dev/sdc1 will be formatted reiserfs mounted into /mnt/Persistent1 > > /dev/sdd1 will be formatted ext4 mounted into /mnt/Persistent2 > > Directories not really necessary for daily operations, such as > /usr/src, /usr/portage, /var/db/pkg, and so on and so forth, will each > be a subdir under either /mnt/Persistent1 or /mnt/Persistent2 > according to each directory's nature. > > Let's take the example of /usr/src ... I can either make /usr/src a > symlink to /mnt/Persistent1/src, or bindmount /mnt/Persistent1/src to > /usr/src All of that sounds incredible complicated. Interesting choice of partition handling. > What will be the benefits/drawbacks for bindmount vs symlink? In my experience, and if you are not dealing with NFS, no respectable program cares about a dir being a symlink, so I would use symlinks (they are easier to handle). Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: LVM, /usr and really really bad thoughts.
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 1:31 AM, Pandu Poluan wrote: > > On Mar 13, 2012 2:19 PM, "Alan McKinnon" wrote: >> >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:54:58 +0700 >> Pandu Poluan wrote: >> >> > > The idea of trying to launch udevd and initialize devices without >> > > the software, installed in /usr, which is required by those devices >> > > is a configuration that causes problems in many real-world, >> > > practical situations. >> > > >> > > The requirement of having /usr on the same partition as / is also a >> > > configuration that causes problems in many real-world, practical >> > > situations. >> > > >> > >> > I quite often read about this, and after some thinking, I have to >> > ask: why? >> > >> >> I've also thought about this and I also want to ask why? >> >> I stopped using a separate /usr on my workstations a long time ago when >> I realized it was pointless. The days of 5M hard disks when the entire >> OS didn't fit on one are long gone. The days of my software going tits >> up at the drop of a hat requiring a minimal repair environment to fix >> it at boot are also long gone (my desk is littered with LiveCDs and >> bootable flash drives). >> >> So I can't find a single good reason why /usr *must* be separate and my >> workstations are the only machines that will ever have hotplug booting >> issues. >> >> I'm even considering changing the install standards for the company >> servers to dispense with separate /usr, as long as there are safeguards >> against clowns who don't read INSTALL files and happily >> accept /usr/local//var as a storage area. >> > > I just did some more thinking, and *maybe* the reason is to prevent > something under /usr (src and share comes to mind) from growing too big and > messes up the root filesystem. > > Place the offenders on a separate partition, then mount them under /usr, and > all should be well... The always used example is to have /usr shared as a read only NFS partition among several workstations. In corporate environments it is certainly used this way (or at least it was when I worked, and the way I used it in my office seven or eight years ago). Of course, for a normal desktop user, a separate /usr is basically useless. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] bindmount or symlink?
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:05 AM, Pandu Poluan wrote: > > On Mar 13, 2012 2:00 PM, "Alan McKinnon" wrote: >> >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 12:04:00 +0700 >> Pandu Poluan wrote: >> >> > I am seriously thinking of splitting the storage of directories >> > under /usr, e.g., /usr/portage and /usr/source actually living >> > somewhere else, on different partition and different filesystem. >> > Let's say something mounted on /mnt/Persistent. >> > >> > My question: should I use bindmount or symlinks to do that? What's the >> > drawbacks/benefits for either? >> > >> > Rgds, >> >> You should do neither as they do not give you split storage, they >> both give you the same thing in two different places. >> >> Create two new filesystems and mount them. >> >> I personally use /var/portage as there is no good reason for it to be >> under /usr where it is just clutter. >> >> Code goes in /usr >> Data goes in /var >> >> You have to change PORTDIR in /etc/make.conf for this to work as well >> as /etc/make.profile. Nothing breaks without it, you just get errors >> from portage >> > > Eh? But I put portage, src, share, etc. on a different partition mounted > under /mnt ... doesn't that mean I am using a split filesystem? You are; but in an incredible complicated and convulted way. If I'm understanding you, you want: fstab: /dev/XX /mnt/p1 ... /dev/YY /mnt/p2 ... and then /usr/portage -> /mnt/p1 /usr/src -> /mnt/p2 (or using bindmounting, whatever). This makes no sense at all (at least not to me), when you can simply: fstab: /dev/XX /usr/portage ... /dev/YY /usr/src ... and get the same split filesystem, but without all the complication you are proposing. Unless there is something I don't understand, in which case I'm not following your reasoning. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: LVM, /usr and really really bad thoughts.
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:09 AM, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 06:22:39PM -0500, Dale wrote
>
>> I think mdev has shown it can be fixed. Given time, it just may replace
>> udev then the udev dev can screw up his own stuff on not bother other
>> distros. I'm giving mdev some thought here. I want /usr on LVM which
>> means it has to be separate.
>
> Sorry, in lste-breaking news, it looks like udev is a mandatory
> dependancy for lvm2. No udev ==> No lvm2
It seems so; from lvm2 2.02.93:
DEPEND_COMMON="!!sys-fs/device-mapper
readline? ( sys-libs/readline )
clvm? ( =sys-cluster/dlm-2*
cman? ( =sys-cluster/cman-2* ) )
>=sys-fs/udev-151-r4"
...
econf $(use_enable readline) \
$(use_enable selinux) \
--enable-pkgconfig \
--with-confdir="${EPREFIX}/etc" \
--sbindir="${EPREFIX}/sbin" \
--with-staticdir="${EPREFIX}/sbin" \
--libdir="${EPREFIX}/$(get_libdir)" \
--with-usrlibdir="${EPREFIX}/usr/$(get_libdir)" \
--enable-udev_rules \
--enable-udev_sync \
--with-udevdir="${EPREFIX}/lib/udev/rules.d/" \
${myconf} \
CLDFLAGS="${LDFLAGS}" || die
Maybe you could try to modify the LVM ebuild to point udevdir to a
black hole and disable udev_rules and udev_sync. But that would be at
best a hack; I'm not familiar enough with the LVM code to know if they
actually need udev to run, or it only installs some rules so it can
run better with it.
Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] bindmount or symlink?
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:00 AM, Pandu Poluan wrote: > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 15:15, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >> >> You are; but in an incredible complicated and convulted way. >> >> If I'm understanding you, you want: >> >> fstab: >> /dev/XX /mnt/p1 ... >> /dev/YY /mnt/p2 ... >> >> and then >> >> /usr/portage -> /mnt/p1 >> /usr/src -> /mnt/p2 >> >> (or using bindmounting, whatever). >> >> This makes no sense at all (at least not to me), when you can simply: >> >> fstab: >> /dev/XX /usr/portage ... >> /dev/YY /usr/src ... >> >> and get the same split filesystem, but without all the complication >> you are proposing. >> >> Unless there is something I don't understand, in which case I'm not >> following your reasoning. >> > > The point is: It's not just 2 (two) directories, but several of them, > and I just can't see myself creating a partition (or an LV) for each > and everyone of them. > > So, here's my thoughts: > > There are 2 filesystems that are suitable for different purposes: > * reiserfs = for space efficiency (w/o notail option) and/or no inode# > limitation > * ext4 = for general purpose > > The directories I'm going to split: > > /usr/share ==> ext4 > /usr/portage ==> reiserfs > /usr/portage/packages ==> ext4 > /usr/portage/distfiles ==> ext4 > /usr/src ==> reiserfs > /var/cache/rtorrent (don't ask) ==> reiserfs > /var/spool/postfix ==> ext4 > /var/lib/postgresql ==> ext4 > > Now, I create 2 partitions: > > /dev/sdc1 (reiserfs) --> /mnt/Persistent1 > /dev/sdd1 (ext4) --> /mnt/Persistent2 > > Then I create subdirectories: > > /mnt/Persistent1/portage > /mnt/Persistent1/src > /mnt/Persistent1/rtorrent > > /mnt/Persistent2/share > /mnt/Persistent2/packages > /mnt/Persistent2/distfiles > /mnt/Persistent2/postfix > /mnt/Persistent2/postgresql > > Finally, I need to redirect the directories-I-want-to-split to the > above subdirs under /mnt/Persistent[12] > > SO. > > mount -o bind ... or ln -s ? OK, now I understand. I still think is kinda crazy, but to each its own. I would definitely use symlinks. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge Break
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:57 PM, siefke_lis...@web.de wrote: > Hello, > > i try to install avidemux and so i give emerge avidemux. But at > media-libs/aften-0.0.8 break emerge with the message: > > > cmake: error while loading shared libraries: libnettle.so.3: > cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > > But the libnettle.so.3 is present on my system: > siefke@gentoo-desk ~ $ locate libnettle.so.3 > /usr/lib/libnettle.so.3 > /usr/lib/libnettle.so.3.0 The locate library may be out of sync. What does it actually say "ls -l /usr/lib/libnettle*"? Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Walter,
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 03:00:52PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 01:05:34PM +, Alan Mackenzie wrote
>
>> > I also did "2> {system,world}.err". system.err was empty. I've included
>> > world.err in the enclosed tarball.
>
>> From your error listing, it looks like lvm2, kde, and gnome (including
>> the XFCE subset) require udev. Ouch.
>
> :-) This cannot be the case. Otherwise somebody would have said. Hmm.
> What we could do with is a "requires xdev", for x in (m u). I've
> forgotten what that's called in portage.
>
> There are surely lots of packages marked "need udev" which don't really
> need it at all. I mean, are there any programs which need precisely
> udev to work, as opposed to a populated /dev?
>
> I mean, what does udev give me that mdev won't? That's not really a
> rhetorical question. What potential benefits am I throwing away by
> converting to mdev?
>From my desktop:
centurion ~ # equery depends udev
* These packages depend on udev:
dev-libs/libatasmart-0.18 (>=sys-fs/udev-143)
dev-python/python-gudev-147.2 (>=sys-fs/udev-171[gudev])
(>=sys-fs/udev-147[extras])
gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.2.2-r1 (packagekit ? sys-fs/udev[gudev])
(packagekit ? sys-fs/udev[extras])
(udev ? sys-fs/udev[gudev])
(udev ? sys-fs/udev[extras])
gnome-base/gvfs-1.10.1 (!prefix ? >=sys-fs/udev-164-r2)
(>=sys-fs/udev-171[gudev])
(>=sys-fs/udev-145[extras])
media-gfx/shotwell-0.11.6 (>=sys-fs/udev-171[gudev])
(>=sys-fs/udev-145[extras])
media-libs/libcanberra-0.28-r5 (udev ? >=sys-fs/udev-160)
media-libs/libgpod-0.8.0 (udev ? sys-fs/udev)
media-libs/mesa-7.11.2 (gbm ? sys-fs/udev)
media-sound/pulseaudio-1.1-r1 (udev ? >=sys-fs/udev-171[hwdb])
(udev ? >=sys-fs/udev-143[extras])
media-sound/rhythmbox-2.95 (>=sys-fs/udev-171[gudev])
(>=sys-fs/udev-145[extras])
media-video/cheese-3.2.2 (>=sys-fs/udev-171[gudev])
(>=sys-fs/udev-145-r1[extras])
net-im/empathy-3.2.2 (v4l ? sys-fs/udev[gudev])
(v4l ? sys-fs/udev[extras])
net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.2.0-r5 (>=sys-fs/udev-171[gudev])
(>=sys-fs/udev-147[extras])
net-wireless/bluez-4.98-r2 (>=sys-fs/udev-169)
net-wireless/gnome-bluetooth-3.2.2 (sys-fs/udev)
sys-apps/systemd-43-r1 (>=sys-fs/udev-172)
sys-fs/lvm2-2.02.88 (>=sys-fs/udev-151-r4)
sys-fs/udisks-1.0.4-r1 (>=sys-fs/udev-171[gudev])
(>=sys-fs/udev-147[extras])
sys-kernel/dracut-017-r2 (>=sys-fs/udev-164)
sys-power/upower-0.9.15 (kernel_linux ? >=sys-fs/udev-171-r1[gudev])
(kernel_linux ? =sys-fs/udev-150)
x11-libs/cairo-1.10.2-r1 (drm ? >=sys-fs/udev-136)
x11-misc/colord-0.1.15 (udev ? sys-fs/udev[gudev])
(udev ? sys-fs/udev[extras])
I don't know exactly what packages actually *require* udev. What I can
say with some certainty is that more and more "maistream" packages
will require udev either directly or indirectly (by some dep).
You will lose those with mdev.
"Fringe" programs will not require udev, or it will be optional; but
the moment a "fringe" program reaches critical mass to become
"maistream", the probability of it needing udev (directly or
indirectly) will increase.
I'm willing to bet a beer on that prediction.
Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. wrote: > > > > On March 13, 2012 at 4:27 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés" > wrote: > >> >> "Fringe" programs will not require udev, or it will be optional; but >> the moment a "fringe" program reaches critical mass to become >> "maistream", the probability of it needing udev (directly or >> indirectly) will increase. >> >> I'm willing to bet a beer on that prediction. >> >> Regards. >> -- >> Canek Peláez Valdés > > > > It _sounds_ like your definition of a "fringe" program is one that does not > need udev; but when it becomes "mainstream" it will need udev. If not, you > write us the definition of a "fringe" program and a "mainstream" program. > > Excuse me, but that's just incredibly _arrogant_! Relax man. That's why "fringe" is written QUOTE fringe UNQUOTE, and "mainstream" is written QUOTE mainstream UNQUOTE. If it makes you happy, replace "fringe" with "GNOME/KDE/XFCE/lvm2-not-related" and "mainstream" with "GNOME/KDE/XFCE/lvm2-related". That's using the very same definition that Walter (the guy behind the mdev-instead-of-udev effort) used just three mails below (or above, depending on your email client). Please chill, no need to get all worked out. And I maintain my prediction. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. wrote: > > > > On March 13, 2012 at 5:22 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés" > wrote: > >> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > On March 13, 2012 at 4:27 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés" >> > wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> "Fringe" programs will not require udev, or it will be optional; but >> >> the moment a "fringe" program reaches critical mass to become >> >> "maistream", the probability of it needing udev (directly or >> >> indirectly) will increase. >> >> >> >> I'm willing to bet a beer on that prediction. >> >> >> >> Regards. >> >> -- >> >> Canek Peláez Valdés >> > >> > >> > >> > It _sounds_ like your definition of a "fringe" program is one that does > not >> > need udev; but when it becomes "mainstream" it will need udev. If not, > you >> > write us the definition of a "fringe" program and a "mainstream" > program. >> > >> > Excuse me, but that's just incredibly _arrogant_! >> >> Relax man. That's why "fringe" is written QUOTE fringe UNQUOTE, and >> "mainstream" is written QUOTE mainstream UNQUOTE. If it makes you >> happy, replace "fringe" with "GNOME/KDE/XFCE/lvm2-not-related" and >> "mainstream" with "GNOME/KDE/XFCE/lvm2-related". That's using the very >> same definition that Walter (the guy behind the mdev-instead-of-udev >> effort) used just three mails below (or above, depending on your email >> client). >> >> Please chill, no need to get all worked out. >> >> And I maintain my prediction. >> >> Regards. >> -- >> Canek Peláez Valdés > > > So, what qualifies for "the moment a "fringe" program reaches critical mass > to become "maistream", the probability of it needing udev (directly or > indirectly) will increase." Just what I was saying: I said (right there) "the probability of it needing udev (directly or indirectly) will increase." I did not say it would *need* udev for sure; just that the probability of it needing udev would increase. I'm not spreading FUD; I'm just stating my opinion. And I stick to it; wanna bet that beer? Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > Hello, Neil. > > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 09:33:30PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote: >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:07:37 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > >> > But I really meant what functionality udev has that mdev lacks. For >> > example, mdev this morning recognised my USB stick being inserted, and >> > created /dev/sdc for it. > >> udev does a *lot* more than that, for example the persistent naming of >> network interfaces. More significantly, it can run programs based on >> device rules. > > This is where I start getting unhappy. Is there any need for this > blurring? Having device nodes is essential to a linux system, and > some programs use these nodes. Why must they be mashed together into a > tasteless mush? Is there some advantage to this I haven't twigged yet? > >> For example, usb_modeswitch installs a udev rule to switch a 3G USB >> modem from CD to modem mode, without which it won't work. > > Same question as above: why does that switching have to be done via the > device node system rather than via the driver. Isn't that what drivers > are for? > >> That's fine when you plug it into a running system, but when you boot >> with it plugged in, it can trip over itself because the usb_modeswitch >> executable is in /usr/sbin. > > Er, that's a different discussion altogether. ;-) > >> You could use this to argue that /usr should be mounted before udev is >> started, but you could just as well use it to argue that udev should not >> be trying to run such rules at the boot runlevel. > > Or that udev shouldn't have "rules". I still don't understand the basic > concept driving this thing. My HDDs don't need rules - they just need a > mapping from /dev/sd[ab] into device 8/0 and 8/16, and the appropriate > drivers built into my kernel. > > Am I being stupid? Despite your example above, I still don't see what > udev is about, why it's necessary, or even why it's advantageous. IMHO, the thing that most people are missing is the fact that neither udev nor Linux "got complicated". The computing world itself "got complicated". We have Linux running in the same beige machines it has been running since 1991, but it also runs in TVs, tablets, cellphones, fridges, cars, ebook readers, and (soon enough, I'm sure) the kitchen sink. This devices behave very differently from our old and beloved beige boxen. They need to handle lots of different hardware comming and going, via USB, Firewire, Bluetooth, WIMAX, and who knows what else in the future. The principal idea behind udev, is that we *don't* kown (we *can't* know) what hardware this or that machine is gonna have at some point. And we want the machine (and the new hardware) to "just work" when they are connected. This is overkill for our old and beloved beige boxen? In some cases; not in mine, where I have bluetooth headphones, cell phones, and gamepads, and USB speakers, or where I connect different LCD/LED TVs to my machines. But for some very specific cases it is overkill, in the sense that fuel injection is "overkill" to get a car moving. And the guys pushing this changes believe that we don't need to cater to the simple beige box (usually servers) crowd anymore: we already got them. We need to cater to everybody else: in particular, at this moment (if the analysts numbers are right) the users of Linux in cellphones surpases the users of Linux in beige boxen... and by a lot it seems. We need to focus in them, and hope they will ask for Linux in their beige boxen if they like their other gadgets. We can discuss the merits of their plan, but I for one I'm with them. I've been using Linux more than 15 years, and with my GNOME 3 system today (yes, with udev, and systemd, and PulseAudio) I'm much more productive than with the command line 10 years ago. My servers run systemd; they not need it, in the sense that they could work without it (and my car run without fuel injection). But I'm very happy with the features running systemd in a server gives me (and the fuel efficiency the fuel injection gives my car). So, yeah, it's more complicated. The world got complicate; better get used to it. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. wrote: > > > > On March 13, 2012 at 5:49 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés" > wrote: > > >> Just what I was saying: I said (right there) "the probability of it >> needing udev (directly or indirectly) will increase." I did not say it >> would *need* udev for sure; just that the probability of it needing >> udev would increase. > > And I call FUD! Call all you want mate, doesn't make it true ;) >> I'm not spreading FUD; I'm just stating my opinion. And I stick to it; >> wanna bet that beer? > > I don't bet or drink, but will say "you're right" if you produce verifiable > facts. I'm making a prediction, man. The only "verifiable fact" is in the future, and my crystall ball is in the shop. And I don't care if you (or anybody for that matter) says that I'm right or wrong. I'm just stating my opinion. And I will keep stating it. And really, relax. We are all on gentoo-user trying to learn a little and get (or give) help from time to time. That's all. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 04:38:08PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> > Hello, Neil. > >> > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 09:33:30PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote: >> >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:07:37 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > >> >> > But I really meant what functionality udev has that mdev lacks. For >> >> > example, mdev this morning recognised my USB stick being inserted, and >> >> > created /dev/sdc for it. > >> >> udev does a *lot* more than that, for example the persistent naming of >> >> network interfaces. More significantly, it can run programs based on >> >> device rules. > >> > This is where I start getting unhappy. Is there any need for this >> > blurring? Having device nodes is essential to a linux system, and >> > some programs use these nodes. Why must they be mashed together into a >> > tasteless mush? Is there some advantage to this I haven't twigged yet? > >> >> For example, usb_modeswitch installs a udev rule to switch a 3G USB >> >> modem from CD to modem mode, without which it won't work. > >> > Same question as above: why does that switching have to be done via the >> > device node system rather than via the driver. Isn't that what drivers >> > are for? > >> >> That's fine when you plug it into a running system, but when you boot >> >> with it plugged in, it can trip over itself because the usb_modeswitch >> >> executable is in /usr/sbin. > >> > Er, that's a different discussion altogether. ;-) > >> >> You could use this to argue that /usr should be mounted before udev is >> >> started, but you could just as well use it to argue that udev should not >> >> be trying to run such rules at the boot runlevel. > >> > Or that udev shouldn't have "rules". I still don't understand the basic >> > concept driving this thing. My HDDs don't need rules - they just need a >> > mapping from /dev/sd[ab] into device 8/0 and 8/16, and the appropriate >> > drivers built into my kernel. > >> > Am I being stupid? Despite your example above, I still don't see what >> > udev is about, why it's necessary, or even why it's advantageous. > >> IMHO, the thing that most people are missing is the fact that neither >> udev nor Linux "got complicated". The computing world itself "got >> complicated". > > Not really. It's been getting more complicated since long before I > starting working in it in 1980. Nothing's changed there. > >> We have Linux running in the same beige machines it has been running >> since 1991, but it also runs in TVs, tablets, cellphones, fridges, >> cars, ebook readers, and (soon enough, I'm sure) the kitchen sink. >> This devices behave very differently from our old and beloved beige >> boxen. > > Not at the level of needing device nodes under /dev and drivers connected > to them, they haven't. > >> They need to handle lots of different hardware comming and going, via >> USB, Firewire, Bluetooth, WIMAX, and who knows what else in the future. > > Yes. That's why there's a generic facility for building arbitrary > drivers into a kernel. That's not new either. > >> The principal idea behind udev, is that we *don't* kown (we *can't* >> know) what hardware this or that machine is gonna have at some point. >> And we want the machine (and the new hardware) to "just work" when >> they are connected. > > Huh? What's that to do with udev? You're talking at far too high a > level of abstraction. The new hardware will "just work" if there are the > correct drivers built in. That's as true of udev as it is of mdev as it > is of the old static /dev with mknod. No, it is not. You are letting out the sine qua non of the matter: the device has to be built, *and the /dev file should exists*. I hope you are not suggesting that we put *ALL* the possible files under /dev, because that was the idea before devfs, and it doesn't work *IN GENERAL*. So, you need something to handle device files on /dev, so you don't need every possible device file for every possible piece of hardware. But then you want to handle the same device with the same device name, so you need some kind of database. Then for the majority of users, they want to see *something* happen when they connect aa piece of hardware to their computers
Re: [gentoo-user] suspend/hibernate and genkernel.
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 9:13 PM, William Kenworthy wrote: > I am trying to get my system(s) ready for the new (read crappy) way > mandated by udev and am having some issues. > > I usually manually compile my kernels, use tuxonice and dont use an > initrd/initramfs. > > As ToI is not available for the latest kernels, I updated openrc and > installed genkernel but then found I couldnt use in-kernel suspend to > disk - googling implies that genkernel doesnt support suspend/hibernate > but there are various kludges to get it to work. > > So whats the least invasive, but workable kludge? > > hibernate, pmhibernate, swsuspend, uswsuspend, ... > > Are there any (up to date) docs? Hi; not sure if it will help you, but I have been using vanilla-sources since forever (sys-kernel/vanilla-sources-2.6.30.3, since Aug 29, 2009), and my laptop suspends and resumes pretty much always without any issue. I don't use genkernel: I manually configure and compile my kernels since always, and I use dracut for my initramfs. Anyhow; suspend/resume should be orthogonal to an initramfs, since the first has nothing to do with the second. I don't know about hibernate (it's been years since I hibernated my laptop), but it should be similar, I think. In my laptop, GNOME does the suspend for me, but it calls pm-suspend (I believe) from pm-utils. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] suspend/hibernate and genkernel.
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:20 AM, William Kenworthy wrote: > On Wed, 2012-03-14 at 11:49 +0800, William Kenworthy wrote: >> On Wed, 2012-03-14 at 11:13 +0800, William Kenworthy wrote: >> > I am trying to get my system(s) ready for the new (read crappy) way >> > mandated by udev and am having some issues. >> > >> > I usually manually compile my kernels, use tuxonice and dont use an >> > initrd/initramfs. >> > >> > As ToI is not available for the latest kernels, I updated openrc and >> > installed genkernel but then found I couldnt use in-kernel suspend to >> > disk - googling implies that genkernel doesnt support suspend/hibernate >> > but there are various kludges to get it to work. >> > >> > So whats the least invasive, but workable kludge? >> > >> > hibernate, pmhibernate, swsuspend, uswsuspend, ... >> > >> > Are there any (up to date) docs? >> > >> > >> > BillK >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> According to the docs I have found you need to patch genkernel to >> run /sbin/resume - it was a longstanding argument between two now >> retired devs with the result that genkernel wont (ever) support >> hibernation. I dont know from reading the bugs if it was ever fixed now >> the dev who "wouldnt" has retired, or is genkernel is still broken. >> >> Also, I have no /sbin/resume on any of my systems (some are years old >> and have been successfully running ToI for most of that time) - so how >> can the initramfs actually start resumimg? >> >> Though I have a more immediate problem - hangs on hibernation and no log >> messages. >> >> BillK >> >> >> >> > > Well, patching genkernel worked so its still broken as regards > suspend/resume - so I can now suspend/resume still with some errors. > > Next problem is that there are error messages implying /usr might not be > mounted by the initramfs (some /usr files not found) ... is there > anything else that needs doing? Once the system is up /usr and all > other directories are correctly mounted (most are on LVM). Did you run genkernel with --lvm? Sorry, I don't use genkernel, but dracut has several options to include arbitrary files on the initramfs. I'm sure genkernel has something similar; why don't you try to add the /usr missing files in the initramfs? Good luck. > Is there a way to get a detailed log of what the initrd is doing/has > done? > BillK > > > > -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] suspend/hibernate and genkernel.
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:28 AM, William Kenworthy wrote: > On Wed, 2012-03-14 at 14:27 +0100, Sebastian Pipping wrote: >> On 03/14/2012 04:49 AM, William Kenworthy wrote: >> > According to the docs I have found you need to patch genkernel to >> > run /sbin/resume - it was a longstanding argument between two now >> > retired devs with the result that genkernel wont (ever) support >> > hibernation. I dont know from reading the bugs if it was ever fixed now >> > the dev who "wouldnt" has retired, or is genkernel is still broken. >> >> I'd be interested to hear more details. >> Can you share links to your sources with me? >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Sebastian >> > > https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156445 - particularly the > comment dated 2007-09-14 20:58:00 UTC. > > and google gets others as well. There are a number of guides describing > the patching and related problems ... note that the above is 2007 ... > and it still doesnt work. > > Basicly the question is does genkernel support some of the more complex > setups, but as having suspend/resume on a laptop is almost mandatory its > something genkernel should support out of the box. For my uses, if it > has to be patched to add such basic support ... its broke. Mmmmh. Again, as I said before, suspend/resume should have nothing to do with an initramfs. Hibernate it's the one that may need special support from the initramfs to work. Just to clarify, neither of them works for you without patching genkernel? Or are you talking only about hibernate? Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > Hello, Canek > > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 06:07:32PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > >> > The new hardware will "just work" if there are the correct drivers >> >built in. That's as true of udev as it is of mdev as it is of the old >> >static /dev with mknod. > >> No, it is not. You are letting out the sine qua non of the matter: the >> device has to be built, *and the /dev file should exists*. I hope you >> are not suggesting that we put *ALL* the possible files under /dev, >> because that was the idea before devfs, and it doesn't work *IN >> GENERAL*. > > Previously you made appropriate /dev entries with mknod, giving the > device major and minor numbers as parameters. This appeared to work in > general - I'm not aware of any device it didn't work for. Again, I believe you are not following me. In *general* the number of potential device files under /dev is not bounded. Given N device filess, I can give you an example where you would need N+1 device files. With your experience, I assume you know about huge arrays of SCSI disks, for example; add to that whatever number of USB devices (and the hubs necessary to connect them), whatever number of Bluetooth thingies, etc., etc. Therefore, mknod doesn't solve the problem in general, because I can always give an example where the preset device files on /dev are not enough. >> So, you need something to handle device files on /dev, so you don't >> need every possible device file for every possible piece of hardware. >> But then you want to handle the same device with the same device name, >> so you need some kind of database. Then for the majority of users, >> they want to see *something* happen when they connect aa piece of >> hardware to their computers. > > That happened under the old static /dev system. What was that /dev > system, if not a database matching /dev names to device numbers? I'm not > sure what you mean by "same device" and "same device name". That if I connect a USB wi-fi dongle, and it appears with the name wlan23, I want *every* time that dongle to have the wlan23 name .Good luck doing that without a database. >> So you need to handle the events associated with the connections (or >> discovery, for things like Bluetooth) of the devices, and since udev is >> already handling the database and the detection of >> connections/discovery, I agree with the decision of leting udev to >> execute programs when something gets connected. You could get that >> function in another program, but you are only moving the problem, *and >> it can also happen very early at boot time*, so lets udev handle it all >> the time. > > Early in boot time, you only need things like disk drives, graphic cards > and keyboards. Anything else can be postponed till late boot time. Bluetooth keyboards. Done, you made my system unbootable when I need to run fsck by hand after a power failure. >> I hope you see where I'm going. As I said before, mdev could (in >> theory) do the same that udev does. But then it will be as complicated >> as udev, *because it is a complicated problem* in general. And I again >> use my fuel injection analogy: it is not *necessary*. It is just very >> damn convenient. > > It may be a complicated problem in general, but many people do not need > that generality. ^ That's your mistake! (IMHO). I explain below. > I suspect the vast majority don't need it. Neither the > typical desktop, the typical server, nor typical embedded devices like > routers. Alan, the "vast majority" of Linux users right now are phone users. That was my initial point some mails ago. What *you* believe are "regular" users (people like you, or maybe even me), stopped being true a couple of years ago. The days of the Unix admin and workstation user are going the way of the dodo. At least, that's how I see it. >> I have a really time understanding why you don't see the complexity on >> the problem. I explained above: it is a complicated problem (when >> dealing with the general case), and therefore the (general) solution is >> bound to be also complicated. > > I've had a hard time understanding, because up till now, nobody's > described the problem in detail - there's only been hand-waving. > >> You want it simple? Tha'ts fine, it is possible. It's just that it >> will not solve the general problem, just a very specific subset of it. > > That subset used by the vast majority of Linux users. Again, think about phone
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote: > > On Mar 15, 2012 12:25 AM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" wrote: >> > > >8 snip > >> >> That if I connect a USB wi-fi dongle, and it appears with the name >> wlan23, I want *every* time that dongle to have the wlan23 name .Good >> luck doing that without a database. >> > > That could -- should -- be handled by a script or a program that looks up > the database, do the checks, and rename the node accordingly. > > All the device manager got to do is to plug in into the hotplug kernel knob, > whereby it will be invoked on every hotplug event, and depending on the > nature if the device (which, in your example, fits the pattern "wlan*") > fires the script/program which performs the lookup+rename part. > > mdev can do that. udev already does it. >> Bluetooth keyboards. Done, you made my system unbootable when I need >> to run fsck by hand after a power failure. >> > > Put it under /bin > > Done. Yeah, right. And put LVM2 binaries in /bin. And wpa_supplicant (maybe I need a wireless connected NFS share). And... Not scalable. Doesn't solve the general case. You are seeing too small. >> Alan, the "vast majority" of Linux users right now are phone users. >> That was my initial point some mails ago. What *you* believe are >> "regular" users (people like you, or maybe even me), stopped being >> true a couple of years ago. The days of the Unix admin and workstation >> user are going the way of the dodo. >> >> At least, that's how I see it. >> > > The vast majority of Linux users, be they using PCs or smartphones, only > need a mechanism to handle hotplugs. > > udev can do it, but so can mdev (with the help of helper scripts/programs). udev can do it *right now*, no hacks involved. Go and hack mdev until it handles *ALL* the cases udev handles, and see how complex it gets. >> Again, think about phones. And tablets. And TVs. And >> [insert-here-cool-gadgets-from-the-future]. >> > > See above. > >> No, it's not a matter of "that's the way forward". It's a matter of >> trying to solve the general problem. And since the general solution >> also solves the simple cases, I don't see a reason to waste my >> time/resources in a solution that in the end will not solve the >> general problem. >> > > It will always be simpler -- and easier to debug -- if we separate the > hotplug handler (whose function is merely to create a dev node with the > proper permissions and (optionally) fire up a 'configurator') from the > configurator itself. Been there, tried that. What do you think devfs was? We tried this path already: it doesn't work, it doesn't scale. You couple together the device manager and the database handling and the firing of associated scripts because that's the technical correct solution. It *is* more complex, for sure, but so it's the general problem we are trying to solve. > udev is going the kitchen sink route. mdev stays the lego brick path. And guess what? I don't want a toy solution built with lego blocks. I want a robust, general solution, that it is bound to work *now* and in the future. >> Of course, as I have been saying from the beginning, this is >> OpenSource. Want to pour some effort into solving the simple cases >> that will not help all the community, and that it will only help in >> fact a minority, that's your prerogative (and Walt's, and Vapier's, >> and everyone else that don't like the "complex" but complete >> solution). Go nuts with it if you want. >> > > The code is there; it's called mdev. But your emails are nothing short of > denigrating the code. It's not my intention to "denigrate" anything. Just stating my opinion. > Talk about double standards :-) When I hear Walt saying that mdev handles GNOME/KDE/XFCE/LVM2, you may say that. Right *now*, Walt says mdev doesn't handle those cases. >> But please don't dismiss the general solution as "unnecessary" complex >> when it's not the case, and don't think that the "simple" setups >> (whatever that means) are the majority. Again, think phones and >> tablets: those *are* the majority. >> > > Again, see above. > >> Oh, for sure you can modify LVM2 to work under mdev. Also >> GNOME/KDE/XFCE, and everything under the sun. You have the source; you >> can do *anything* you want with it. >> >> But the effort wasted^Hpoured in that excercise will only serve a >> handful of users, and it will be never acc
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>> Hello, Canek >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 06:07:32PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: >>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>> >>>> > The new hardware will "just work" if there are the correct drivers >>>> >built in. That's as true of udev as it is of mdev as it is of the old >>>> >static /dev with mknod. >>> >>>> No, it is not. You are letting out the sine qua non of the matter: the >>>> device has to be built, *and the /dev file should exists*. I hope you >>>> are not suggesting that we put *ALL* the possible files under /dev, >>>> because that was the idea before devfs, and it doesn't work *IN >>>> GENERAL*. >>> >>> Previously you made appropriate /dev entries with mknod, giving the >>> device major and minor numbers as parameters. This appeared to work in >>> general - I'm not aware of any device it didn't work for. >> >> Again, I believe you are not following me. In *general* the number of >> potential device files under /dev is not bounded. Given N device >> filess, I can give you an example where you would need N+1 device >> files. With your experience, I assume you know about huge arrays of >> SCSI disks, for example; add to that whatever number of USB devices >> (and the hubs necessary to connect them), whatever number of Bluetooth >> thingies, etc., etc. >> >> Therefore, mknod doesn't solve the problem in general, because I can >> always give an example where the preset device files on /dev are not >> enough. > > And I can always give an example where there can't be enough inodes > (or perhaps even RAM) to contain enough device nodes. "General Case" > is a beautiful thing for a theoretical system, but my computer is not > a theoretical system. Neither is my phone, or my server. You are arguing that the mknod method should be used? Because that dicussion happened ten years ago; that train is long gone. If you want to argue with someone about it, it would not be me. > >> >>>> So, you need something to handle device files on /dev, so you don't >>>> need every possible device file for every possible piece of hardware. >>>> But then you want to handle the same device with the same device name, >>>> so you need some kind of database. Then for the majority of users, >>>> they want to see *something* happen when they connect aa piece of >>>> hardware to their computers. >>> >>> That happened under the old static /dev system. What was that /dev >>> system, if not a database matching /dev names to device numbers? I'm not >>> sure what you mean by "same device" and "same device name". >> >> That if I connect a USB wi-fi dongle, and it appears with the name >> wlan23, I want *every* time that dongle to have the wlan23 name .Good >> luck doing that without a database. > > udev does something nice here, and I believe mdev is capable of > similar. sysfs exports device attributes such as model and serial > number, and you could trivially derive the node name from that. I think (as does the udev maintainers) that there should be a strong coupling between the device manager, the database handling, and the firing of scripts. Otherwise. we get back to devfs, which again, that train is long gone. >> >>>> So you need to handle the events associated with the connections (or >>>> discovery, for things like Bluetooth) of the devices, and since udev is >>>> already handling the database and the detection of >>>> connections/discovery, I agree with the decision of leting udev to >>>> execute programs when something gets connected. You could get that >>>> function in another program, but you are only moving the problem, *and >>>> it can also happen very early at boot time*, so lets udev handle it all >>>> the time. >>> >>> Early in boot time, you only need things like disk drives, graphic cards >>> and keyboards. Anything else can be postponed till late boot time. >> >> Bluetooth keyboards. Done, you made my system unbootable when I need >> to run fsck by hand after a power failure. > > The userland bluetooth stack is an abomination. (Actually, the _whole_ > bluetooth stack is an abomination. You don't want to know what > e
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote:
>
> On Mar 15, 2012 1:22 AM, "Canek Peláez Valdés" wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote:
>> >
>> > On Mar 15, 2012 12:25 AM, "Canek Peláez Valdés"
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >
>> > >8 snip
>> >
>> >>
>> >> That if I connect a USB wi-fi dongle, and it appears with the name
>> >> wlan23, I want *every* time that dongle to have the wlan23 name .Good
>> >> luck doing that without a database.
>> >>
>> >
>> > That could -- should -- be handled by a script or a program that looks
>> > up
>> > the database, do the checks, and rename the node accordingly.
>> >
>> > All the device manager got to do is to plug in into the hotplug kernel
>> > knob,
>> > whereby it will be invoked on every hotplug event, and depending on the
>> > nature if the device (which, in your example, fits the pattern "wlan*")
>> > fires the script/program which performs the lookup+rename part.
>> >
>> > mdev can do that.
>>
>> udev already does it.
>>
>
> So does mdev. If writing a simple script is so distressing for you, why in
> the world are you using Gentoo, with all its manual labor?
Whoa, relax man. We are discussing (or at least I'm trying) in a civil
manner the technical merits of two proposed solutions for a problem.
No need to get personal.
(And BTW, I've been using Gentoo since 2003, and I maintain an overlay
to use systemd without the need of having openrc/baselayout
installed).
>> > Put it under /bin
>> >
>> > Done.
>>
>> Yeah, right. And put LVM2 binaries in /bin. And wpa_supplicant (maybe
>> I need a wireless connected NFS share). And...
>>
>> Not scalable. Doesn't solve the general case. You are seeing too small.
>>
>
> *You* are not seeing _at all_. Witness how the Fedora devs want to merge
> /bin and /sbin
Yeah. I agree with their decision. Read:
http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html
> It *is* scalable. Ever tried du /usr?
Yeah, from time to time. Fail to see your point.
> The problem was -- is -- that package maintainers blindly put binaries
> required for booting into /usr
No problem with an intiramfs :D
>> > The vast majority of Linux users, be they using PCs or smartphones, only
>> > need a mechanism to handle hotplugs.
>> >
>> > udev can do it, but so can mdev (with the help of helper
>> > scripts/programs).
>>
>> udev can do it *right now*, no hacks involved. Go and hack mdev until
>> it handles *ALL* the cases udev handles, and see how complex it gets.
>>
>
> If you're so afraid of doing things manually, you have no business using
> Gentoo in the first place.
Again with the personal attacks; relax man. No need to get all worked out.
> Here's a prototype script to ensure that certain NICs will always end up the
> way you want it named:
>
> #!/bin/sh
> mac="$( cat /proc/net/arp | awk -V dev="$MDEV" 'NR==1{next} $6==dev {print
> $4}')"
> name="$(awk -V mac="$mac" '$1==mac {print $2}')"
> [ "$name" ] && mv /dev/$MDEV /dev/$name
> exit 0
>
> (Prototype, because I don't have access to a Linux box atm, so I can't test)
Yeah, I'm gonna try that instead of udev, which works out of the box.
I'm gonna pass, thank you.
>> Been there, tried that. What do you think devfs was? We tried this
>> path already: it doesn't work, it doesn't scale. You couple together
>> the device manager and the database handling and the firing of
>> associated scripts because that's the technical correct solution. It
>> *is* more complex, for sure, but so it's the general problem we are
>> trying to solve.
>>
>
> If you step down from your high chair for awhile and read the busybox thread
> I've been linking, you'll know the difference. One of the emails in that
> thread explained it.
Relax, I'm not on a high chair; again, I'm just stating my opinion. I
have read the mail, I think the day it was posted. I don't buy it, for
all the reasons I have been saying.
>> > udev is going the kitchen sink route. mdev stays the lego brick path.
>>
>> And guess what? I don't want a toy solution built with lego blocks.
>
> Obviously idioms went way over your head.
>
> If you're taking the "Lego brick" allegory as literal, then good luck with
> your kitchen sink. At lea
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failure :-(
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Michael Mol wrote: [ huge snip ] > Each time, you've acted as though the new stance is what you've been > arguing from all along, but because you haven't communicated that, > it's impossible to reasonably discuss specifics in practicality. I > think I'm done with this particular discussion. I think I'm done too. I just stated my opinion; do whatever you want with it. Including ignoring it, of course. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 6
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 02:15:52PM +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote > >> Wouldn't a good solution be to have the ebuild modified to only >> install those binary blobs you actually need? Eg. similar to how >> apache or sane modules are configured? > > The tarball on the AMD website has all the binary blobs bundled > together. The ebuild simply downloads the tarball and extracts it to > the correct library directory. You could do it manually. The problem > with separate ebuilds is that one ebuild would be replaced with a couple > of dozen ebuilds, or one ebuild with a couple of dozen custom USE flags. You could use an use-expand variable, like INPUT_DEVICES or VIDEO_CARDS for xorg-drivers, or DRACUT_MODULES for dracut. It sounds like the smart thing to do. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
