Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo Hangouts
- Original Message - > From: Michael Palimaka > > On 24/06/2013 07:30, Pavlos Ratis wrote: >> That's why I'd like to propose Gentoo Hangouts. Gentoo Hangouts > will >> be Google+ video Hangouts(video calls) held by teams or developers >> independent of a team. The main goal is to have the teams introduce >> themselves and discuss about different issues in their Gentoo-related >> projects. > > Thanks for taking the time and initiative to work on something new, I am > sure it will prove interesting. > > It is the response that confuses me - I don't understand why everyone is > rushing to shut it down before it even begins. For those that are not > interested in the idea of a video hangout, just don't use it and move on > - simple. > I don't know whether a new gentoo user like me have any say here, I would like to point out some problems about this proposal ! 1. Video requires high bandwidth internet, so useless in developing countries, where even today you can not think of 24x7 internet. Yes, there are Broadband, 3G, 4G, ... just as advertisement, no real speed or reliability, or you may say we can not bear the huge cost. 2. Gentoo is not backed by any public invested company or private company, no corporation. So there is nobody to show your monthly/quarterly progress, nothing to hide intelligently. That is why I'm here. 3. I am subscribed to almost all mailing lists (I think it's justified for a newcomer), so already getting huge mails. There is IRC for realtime communication, which is easily configurable in any computing device, no big price, no hidden code (atleast for the client), no high bandwidth network, no battery drain. 4. More communication channels will just create fragmentation & distraction. Installing & maintaing Gentoo is already a big work, now if I have to check regularly the huge Mailing lists, IRC, Bugzilla, git and now you are saying about Google Hangout, may be later someone will say about Twitter, Facebook, I am just finished. It will just waste our time. FYI, I am not a Computer Science student/engineer/researcher. [N.B.: Gentoo is different from other distros, every user need to be half developer/tester here. It's not as polished/finished as the binary distros (atleast what they want to be). It provides choice, ultimate customization, which is not a child play. Users like to be aware of what is cooking with the ebuilds & sourcecode, what will eventually come within a couple of months to their stable system, unlike 6 months of testing interval in binary distros.] 5. I do'nt know whether people outside of UK, USA, Australia, Canada, Germany and elites of India, South Africa are at all comfortable with spoken english, I mean to speak. So language will be a big barrier for this type of your promotional activity. [N.B.: I am neither considering Gentoo because some Hero/Idol said so or helping me out, nor just Stumbleupon it, I am here after trying other distros and lots of associated frustration. Distrowatch is there to maintain the Linux Distro Stock Exchange.] 6. other members already stated some other valid reasons against it, I'm not repeating. 7. It can be ok if you or somebody else do it as an unofficial effort, don't request the teams to make it another official channel. 8. For promotional activities, I would like to have an YouTube/ channel on getting started type video tutorial, or developer's interview etc, specially during new Live DVD releases, Gentoo birthday, 25th December (people will have one week to play with Gentoo). If possible, make it multilingual or atleast provide multilingual subtitle. 9. On a different note, I would like to have the Handbook split into different parts: 1. Getting started (installation in Qemu/Virtualbox preferably), 2. Advanced Network configuration, 3. Software Management in details, 4. System/Service management (OpenRC, Systemd). The big book for a newcomer is t boring. I know it's not the right place, just a comment for now! === I'm yet a learner, warn me if I'm doing any wrong... [|:-)
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo Hangouts
- Original Message - > From: Michael Palimaka > > On 25/06/2013 22:42, Egg Plant wrote: >> I don't know whether a new gentoo user like me have any say here, I > would like to point out some problems about this proposal ! >> >> 2. Gentoo is not backed by any public invested company or private company, > no corporation. So there is nobody to show your monthly/quarterly progress, > nothing to hide intelligently. That is why I'm here. >> >> 4. More communication channels will just create fragmentation & > distraction. Installing & maintaing Gentoo is already a big work, now if I > have to check regularly the huge Mailing lists, IRC, Bugzilla, git and now > you > are saying about Google Hangout, may be later someone will say about Twitter, > Facebook, I am just finished. It will just waste our time. FYI, I am not > a > Computer Science student/engineer/researcher. >> >> >> [N.B.: I am neither considering Gentoo because some Hero/Idol said so or > helping me out, nor just Stumbleupon it, I am here after trying other distros > and lots of associated frustration. ...] >> >> 7. It can be ok if you or somebody else do it as an unofficial effort, > don't request the teams to make it another official channel. >> >> > > These are all good reasons to not use Hangouts. Fortunately, there was > nothing in the proposal to suggest that it will be required for anyone, > or that it will replace any existing source of information. Therefore > anyone who chooses not to make use of Hangouts will not otherwise be > affected by them. > According to Pavlos Ratis proposal, it will be another channel of communication. I am not protesting to setup an unofficial channel there. I am fearing that it will gradually become an avenue for talent show, similar to other binary distros. That is why I am against to make it official channel. Video is more attractive than Text or still photo. Several developers, who can afford the resources, will gradually shift their communication to that channel. It's somewhat cyclic dependency or chain reaction. It will just increase our workload (of gentoo development awareness). More fragmentation & distraction as well as other technical problems mentioned by others & me. I don't want any unnecessary attention from some Computer Science students (unable to get a job at Microsoft or Apple! sorry, I don't like to be that hard) to show their talent and gift me with another unstable, unreliable, expectation only, useless distro. Change is good, only if it improves our life. For colourfull life there are other things one can play with. The resourcefull developers/users can meet each other at Gentoo Miniconf and similar other gatherings in real world. That will make us more human. [P.S.: request you to read my first mail once again, I am not totally against this type of activity. Everything has it's place & time.] === I'm yet a learner, warn me if I'm doing any wrong... [|:-)
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo Hangouts
- Original Message - > From: Michael Palimaka > > On 26/06/2013 01:09, Egg Plant wrote: >> According to Pavlos Ratis proposal, it will be another channel of > communication. I am not protesting to setup an unofficial channel there. >> >> I am fearing that it will gradually become an avenue for talent show, > similar to other binary distros. That is why I am against to make it official > channel. > What makes it official or not? Does it make any practical difference? > Yes. I think it will make our life better if any developer discuss or at least notify in the proper mailing list or IRC channel (as of now more accessible by majority of users & developers) before committing any horrible idea. Again I would remind you, I am not against any change that will improve our life. E.g., one can install Gentoo from binary packages, one can run Gentoo with Systemd instead of OpenRC, there are lots of other possibilities with Gentoo. But a newcommer is directed to read a "handbook" which will guide him/her using source packages & OpenRC. This is what I call official recommendation. >> Video is more attractive than Text or still photo. >> >> Several developers, who can afford the resources, will gradually shift > their communication to that channel. It's somewhat cyclic dependency or > chain reaction. It will just increase our workload (of gentoo development > awareness). More fragmentation & distraction as well as other technical > problems mentioned by others & me. > Perhaps some will. Does that matter? There is already plenty of > "fragmentation" - we have over 70 IRC channels and 60 mailing lists, > not > to mention blogs, wikis, overlays and countless other methods of > development and communication. Yes. We can not control or change this universe, only we can try to make our life beter. > As Rich said, everyone has their favourite medium and every medium is > not suitable for every person. I am not against it. Read my mails one more time. >> I don't want any unnecessary attention from some Computer Science > students (unable to get a job at Microsoft or Apple! sorry, I don't like > to be that hard) to show their talent and gift me with another unstable, > unreliable, expectation only, useless distro. > I am not sure what this has to do with hangouts. I am keeping my mouth shut here. More talk will lead to discussion on religion or political or management level (i.e., /dev/null). >> Change is good, only if it improves our life. For colourfull life there are > other things one can play with. >> >> The resourcefull developers/users can meet each other at Gentoo Miniconf > and similar other gatherings in real world. That will make us more human. > Again, Rich was spot on here. A quick search of reveals that it would > have taken me approximately 30-40 hours in transit and $4,000-$6,000 in > flights alone to have attended the Miniconf. I am not saying these gatherings are good replacement for Video conferencing. >> [P.S.: request you to read my first mail once again, I am not totally > against this type of activity. Everything has it's place & time.] >> > > Best regards, > Michael > I am replying only to you doesn't mean I am attacking you personally. Just I am explaining my point of view about the proposal. Thanks for your kind attention. I am not going to indulge on this topic any more. === I'm yet a learner, warn me if I'm doing any wrong... [|:-)
