Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Reinstating old-school GLEPs masterplan
On 09/11/2017 01:56 PM, Michał Górny wrote: > W dniu pon, 11.09.2017 o godzinie 13∶29 -0400, użytkownik Michael > Orlitzky napisał: >> On 09/11/2017 01:08 PM, Michał Górny wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> TL;DR: I'd like to reinstate the old-school GLEPs in .rst files rather >>> than Wiki, put in a nice git repo. >>> >> >> I generally agree with you that wiki markup is terrible and that a text >> editor and a git repo is The Right Way to do things (with Jekyll or >> whatever to push it to the web). But in my experience, crappy and easy >> is a better way to get people to contribute. When I've taken wiki >> documents and moved them into git repos, more often than not I become >> the sole contributor, and otherwise-technical people just start emailing >> me their contributions (which decrease greatly in frequency). > > Rich already answered this in detail, so I'll skip it. > >> Will it be possible to build the GLEP rst files locally, and view the >> output exactly as it would appear on the website? I ask because, so long >> as you don't want to be able to preview the result, you can already >> write MediaWiki markup into a text file locally. The offline "live >> preview" ability is the killer feature of RST as I see it. > > Of course yes. However, the exactness of result depends on how much > effort you put into it. > > The 'easy way' is rst2html.py (dev-python/docutils). It will give you > a rough rendering with a standard style, i.e. kinda ugly but enough to > see if everything works as expected. You'll also see the preamble as big > mumbo-jumbo on top. > > Then, there's glep.py (dev-python/docutils-glep) which adds preamble > parsing, table of contents and some styling. AFAICS it needs a bit > handiwork (copying a stylesheet to a relative directory) but it gives > nice old-school rendering. > > Then, you can just take www.gentoo.org and run it locally. It takes > a little more effort but jekyll is really trivial to set up and run > locally. Then you see it exactly how it's gonna look on g.o. > > As a side note, we may also rename GLEPs to .rst. Then, GitHub will also > provide out-of-the-box rendering of them. > To preface, I really like the idea to do this in Git. Much as I appreciate what the wiki team has done, collaboration isn't quite as smooth on it and as another person mentioned, it's hard to get reviews, so you get to choose to leave something in your userspace (I liked your Drafts namespace idea, fwiw) or edit a page anyway and hope for the best. That said... Is it wise to rely on Ruby (via Jekyll) for critical reference documents, given how often minor version bumps in Ruby disrupt its ecosystem? Do we really need the entire www.gentoo.org repository in order to view and hack on GLEPs? I see little reason for GLEPs to not be in their own repository, depending on something more stable than Jekyll and Ruby. Given that the doc tools themselves are written in Python, it makes more sense (imo) to leverage Gentoo's existing technical investment in Python and use something like app-text/pelican, which is equally, if not more capable than Jekyll and will not require pulling in Ruby just to hack on and preview some text. Every Gentoo system comes with Python unless you go off the beaten path and know what you're doing, so that's a bonus, too. Of course, this changes if we need some extremely advanced behavior. I'm not sure how easy it is to build a Pelican plugin, but there's an entire repo full of them. [1] Pelican also uses a Makefile you can hack on (even multiple publishing targets), and supports GNU gettext for translations. Or is Jekyll chosen purely because the current website is built with it? In that case, it at least makes sense despite the heavyweight dependencies. If anyone's interested in seeing a mockup of a few GLEPs in Pelican, I can get that started. Whether or not the structure works on GitHub is orthogonal to the decision. Still, put me down in favor of switching to Git. Thanks for putting together the proposal. [1]: https://github.com/getpelican/pelican-plugins -- Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer, Trustee, Treasurer OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C 1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Reinstating old-school GLEPs masterplan
W dniu pon, 11.09.2017 o godzinie 17∶27 -0400, użytkownik Michael Orlitzky napisał: > On 09/11/2017 05:06 PM, Michał Górny wrote: > > > > Example of GitHub rendering: > > https://github.com/mgorny/glep-draft/blob/preamble-test/glep-0001.rst > > > > IMO this beats the preview/editing capabilities MediaWiki gave us. > > > > If that's how we get an offline preview, I'm not sold =P > > I can run MediaWiki locally too, and keep the source in a git repo. Can you set a MediaWiki instance with contents in less than 5 easy steps? (easy = typing a reasonably short command, not 'set a mysql server up') > Your > other methods of getting a local preview don't sound significantly > easier than that -- at least, not enough so to justify throwing > everything out and starting all over again. If you consider doing 'rst2html.py glep-0001.rst > glep-0001.html' hard, then I'm afraid I won't be able to ever satisfy you. -- Best regards, Michał Górny
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Reinstating old-school GLEPs masterplan
On 09/12/2017 09:50 AM, Michał Górny wrote: > > If you consider doing 'rst2html.py glep-0001.rst > glep-0001.html' hard, > then I'm afraid I won't be able to ever satisfy you. > Does that command produce something that looks as good as this? https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Mjo/GLEP:User_packages
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Reinstating old-school GLEPs masterplan
W dniu pon, 11.09.2017 o godzinie 21∶59 -0500, użytkownik R0b0t1 napisał: > Hello friends, > > On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Michał Górny wrote: > > W dniu pon, 11.09.2017 o godzinie 13∶29 -0400, użytkownik Michael > > Orlitzky napisał: > > > On 09/11/2017 01:08 PM, Michał Górny wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > TL;DR: I'd like to reinstate the old-school GLEPs in .rst files rather > > > > than Wiki, put in a nice git repo. > > > > > > > > > > I generally agree with you that wiki markup is terrible and that a text > > > editor and a git repo is The Right Way to do things (with Jekyll or > > > whatever to push it to the web). But in my experience, crappy and easy > > > is a better way to get people to contribute. When I've taken wiki > > > documents and moved them into git repos, more often than not I become > > > the sole contributor, and otherwise-technical people just start emailing > > > me their contributions (which decrease greatly in frequency). > > > > [...] > > > > Then, you can just take www.gentoo.org and run it locally. It takes > > a little more effort but jekyll is really trivial to set up and run > > locally. Then you see it exactly how it's gonna look on g.o. > > I'm going to reply to the Gollum topic here since it's the first mail according to date. > I previously suggested Gollum and think I should suggest it again. > Gollum provides features relevant to a Wiki setting including web > editing. Firstly, a generic request to everyone. If you want to suggest that we are supposed to use your-favorite-tool instead of the one we have deployed for a few years now, then please include: 1. A short summary including: 1a. How it fits into the desired workflow. Topics such as access control and caching are of particular interest to me. 1b. What possible future use it could have. 1c. How much effort will the future maintenance take. 2. A publicly available working instance that resembles the workflow we're aiming for, or an easy way of setting one up. Easy = ~5 simple shell commands, not 'set a webserver up'. 3. A statement from an Infra member that is willing to set the instance up and maintain it. Because otherwise we're only going to lose time on theoretical debates over software without even knowing if it will work at all, do what it's supposed to do, and most importantly, if someone will actually set a production instance up and maintain it afterwards. Infra already maintains enough diverse platforms/services/frameworks that serve only a single tool selected by one person who used to like it, and not maintained anymore. SMW belongs to that group. > It would not require pages be rewritten and can render > MediaWiki that is maintained in a Git repository. Secondly, even if Gollum supported MW markup to the point of rendering GLEPs (which it doesn't [1]), MW markup is not suitable for any technical specifications or serious documentation for two reasons: a. MW markup is not proper WYWIWYG. Any more complex part of the document is not readable as plaintext. Add to that the horrible syntax requiring use mixed with inline HTML... b. MW markup is not standalone. Our GLEPs already started heavily depending on random templates (which can change at any time, breaking GLEPs in the process btw). > It should be all of the positives with no negatives. Is it? [1]:https://help.github.com/articles/supported-mediawiki-formats/ -- Best regards, Michał Górny
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Reinstating old-school GLEPs masterplan
W dniu wto, 12.09.2017 o godzinie 09∶57 -0400, użytkownik Michael Orlitzky napisał: > On 09/12/2017 09:50 AM, Michał Górny wrote: > > > > If you consider doing 'rst2html.py glep-0001.rst > glep-0001.html' hard, > > then I'm afraid I won't be able to ever satisfy you. > > > > Does that command produce something that looks as good as this? > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Mjo/GLEP:User_packages > No, it doesn't. However, you are free to prepare a stylesheet for docutils that produces the rendering you like. -- Best regards, Michał Górny
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Reinstating old-school GLEPs masterplan
W dniu wto, 12.09.2017 o godzinie 00∶07 -0700, użytkownik Daniel Campbell napisał: > On 09/11/2017 01:56 PM, Michał Górny wrote: > > W dniu pon, 11.09.2017 o godzinie 13∶29 -0400, użytkownik Michael > > Orlitzky napisał: > > > On 09/11/2017 01:08 PM, Michał Górny wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > TL;DR: I'd like to reinstate the old-school GLEPs in .rst files rather > > > > than Wiki, put in a nice git repo. > > > > > > > > > > I generally agree with you that wiki markup is terrible and that a text > > > editor and a git repo is The Right Way to do things (with Jekyll or > > > whatever to push it to the web). But in my experience, crappy and easy > > > is a better way to get people to contribute. When I've taken wiki > > > documents and moved them into git repos, more often than not I become > > > the sole contributor, and otherwise-technical people just start emailing > > > me their contributions (which decrease greatly in frequency). > > > > Rich already answered this in detail, so I'll skip it. > > > > > Will it be possible to build the GLEP rst files locally, and view the > > > output exactly as it would appear on the website? I ask because, so long > > > as you don't want to be able to preview the result, you can already > > > write MediaWiki markup into a text file locally. The offline "live > > > preview" ability is the killer feature of RST as I see it. > > > > Of course yes. However, the exactness of result depends on how much > > effort you put into it. > > > > The 'easy way' is rst2html.py (dev-python/docutils). It will give you > > a rough rendering with a standard style, i.e. kinda ugly but enough to > > see if everything works as expected. You'll also see the preamble as big > > mumbo-jumbo on top. > > > > Then, there's glep.py (dev-python/docutils-glep) which adds preamble > > parsing, table of contents and some styling. AFAICS it needs a bit > > handiwork (copying a stylesheet to a relative directory) but it gives > > nice old-school rendering. > > > > Then, you can just take www.gentoo.org and run it locally. It takes > > a little more effort but jekyll is really trivial to set up and run > > locally. Then you see it exactly how it's gonna look on g.o. > > > > As a side note, we may also rename GLEPs to .rst. Then, GitHub will also > > provide out-of-the-box rendering of them. > > > > To preface, I really like the idea to do this in Git. Much as I > appreciate what the wiki team has done, collaboration isn't quite as > smooth on it and as another person mentioned, it's hard to get reviews, > so you get to choose to leave something in your userspace (I liked your > Drafts namespace idea, fwiw) or edit a page anyway and hope for the best. > > That said... Is it wise to rely on Ruby (via Jekyll) for critical > reference documents, given how often minor version bumps in Ruby disrupt > its ecosystem? The point of using ReST (i.e. an established markup) and git (established VCS) is to avoid depending on any particular software to get things working, and to make it easy to replace the guts as necessary. Jekyll is what infra uses at the moment, so I see no reason to reinvent the wheel just to prove the point. > Do we really need the entire www.gentoo.org repository in > order to view and hack on GLEPs? No, you don't. > I see little reason for GLEPs to not be > in their own repository, depending on something more stable than Jekyll > and Ruby. They are, and they don't depend on Ruby at all. In fact, you can view them using a line printer if you like. > Given that the doc tools themselves are written in Python, it > makes more sense (imo) to leverage Gentoo's existing technical > investment in Python and use something like app-text/pelican, which is > equally, if not more capable than Jekyll and will not require pulling in > Ruby just to hack on and preview some text. Every Gentoo system comes > with Python unless you go off the beaten path and know what you're > doing, so that's a bonus, too. See the first part of my reply to R0b0t1. > Of course, this changes if we need some extremely advanced behavior. I'm > not sure how easy it is to build a Pelican plugin, but there's an entire > repo full of them. [1] Pelican also uses a Makefile you can hack on > (even multiple publishing targets), and supports GNU gettext for > translations. > > Or is Jekyll chosen purely because the current website is built with it? > In that case, it at least makes sense despite the heavyweight dependencies. That's exactly the point. I'm sorry, I thought it was obvious from what I have written. > If anyone's interested in seeing a mockup of a few GLEPs in Pelican, I > can get that started. You sure can. However, I have serious doubts about the value of establishing yet another framework for a single thing that nobody will afterwards use or maintain. See SMW. > > Whether or not the structure works on GitHub is orthogonal to the > decision. Still, put me down in favor of switching to Git. Thank
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Reinstating old-school GLEPs masterplan
W dniu pon, 11.09.2017 o godzinie 23∶26 -0400, użytkownik Dean Stephens napisał: > On 09/11/17 13:08, Michał Górny wrote: > > Any comments? > > > > Instead of spreading documentation back out across multiple sites and > changing workflow for a subset of it yet again, why not migrate the wiki > to e.g. gollum [1]? Given that it supports markdown, ReStructuredText, > and mediawiki markup and uses git for a backend. > > [1] https://github.com/gollum/gollum > This seems to be entirely covered by an earlier post by R0b0t1, so please read my reply to that post. -- Best regards, Michał Górny
[gentoo-dev] Re: PowerPC Resources at OSU
On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 11:29 PM, R0b0t1 wrote: > Hello, > > (This will be almost a duplicate on the PPC list, but now having more > information I am sending it to the BSD list as well.) > > I apologize in advance if I did anything improper. I misunderstood > desultory when I asked him what to do earlier. Originally I was > unwilling to try to associate myself with Gentoo for the purpose of > this request but I wasn't referred to anyone who could fill out the > form "for" me. > > Having requested OpenPOWER hosting from OSUOSL on Gentoo's behalf, I > was informed that hosting is already provided to the project. > Consequently I have two questions: > > 1) May I have access to a/the POWER server, or some other suitable > POWER resource? If not, > 2) is anyone available to verify that I am associated with the project > or that I will use the resources for project related work? > > > For any comment to OSU, such as to request closure of the ticket or > that they go ahead with allocating the VM, please comment and I will > forward the support ticket to you. > > > My intent is to experiment with the PowerPC architecture, specifically > features found on newer POWER processors and servers. It is unlikely I > will ever get to do this on my own as the machines run $10k-$30k. I > requested services from OSU because GCC was not able to accommodate my > request for hypervisor access on their system. > > However, having finally found the resources I've been looking for this > whole time, it looks like OSU's nodes are virtualized and won't be > able to do exactly what I want anyway (i.e. the GCC sysadmin was > misinformed), so I may have accidentally wasted people's time and > potentially tarnished Gentoo's reputation. I will make amends as best > I can. > > IBM is willing to fund a node for my use and OSU is willing to deploy > it pending contact from Gentoo leadership. If there is a machine that > already exists that I would not disrupt, I would have no problems > working on existing resources instead if that seems reasonable. The > GCC server(s) are probably adequate, however I am having lots of > problems setting up a prefix on those systems because they use CentOS. > I am trying to fix bugs as best as I am able but it is starting to > look hopeless. > > Excess resources on the donated OSU OpenPOWER machine could be offered > to other developers or used to run a Tinderbox. It may be a good idea > to do those things on the already existing machine(s). > > Respectfully, > R0b0t1 I am in no great hurry to get things moving and don't mind being told "no," but at a certain point I feel like I will have to tell OSU that I couldn't figure out who controls their current donation. Respectfully, R0b0t1
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: PowerPC Resources at OSU
On 17-09-12 10:44:42, R0b0t1 wrote: > On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 11:29 PM, R0b0t1 wrote: > > Hello, > > > > (This will be almost a duplicate on the PPC list, but now having more > > information I am sending it to the BSD list as well.) > > > > I apologize in advance if I did anything improper. I misunderstood > > desultory when I asked him what to do earlier. Originally I was > > unwilling to try to associate myself with Gentoo for the purpose of > > this request but I wasn't referred to anyone who could fill out the > > form "for" me. > > > > Having requested OpenPOWER hosting from OSUOSL on Gentoo's behalf, I > > was informed that hosting is already provided to the project. > > Consequently I have two questions: > > > > 1) May I have access to a/the POWER server, or some other suitable > > POWER resource? If not, > > 2) is anyone available to verify that I am associated with the project > > or that I will use the resources for project related work? > > > > > > For any comment to OSU, such as to request closure of the ticket or > > that they go ahead with allocating the VM, please comment and I will > > forward the support ticket to you. > > > > > > My intent is to experiment with the PowerPC architecture, specifically > > features found on newer POWER processors and servers. It is unlikely I > > will ever get to do this on my own as the machines run $10k-$30k. I > > requested services from OSU because GCC was not able to accommodate my > > request for hypervisor access on their system. > > > > However, having finally found the resources I've been looking for this > > whole time, it looks like OSU's nodes are virtualized and won't be > > able to do exactly what I want anyway (i.e. the GCC sysadmin was > > misinformed), so I may have accidentally wasted people's time and > > potentially tarnished Gentoo's reputation. I will make amends as best > > I can. > > > > IBM is willing to fund a node for my use and OSU is willing to deploy > > it pending contact from Gentoo leadership. If there is a machine that > > already exists that I would not disrupt, I would have no problems > > working on existing resources instead if that seems reasonable. The > > GCC server(s) are probably adequate, however I am having lots of > > problems setting up a prefix on those systems because they use CentOS. > > I am trying to fix bugs as best as I am able but it is starting to > > look hopeless. > > > > Excess resources on the donated OSU OpenPOWER machine could be offered > > to other developers or used to run a Tinderbox. It may be a good idea > > to do those things on the already existing machine(s). > > > > Respectfully, > > R0b0t1 > > I am in no great hurry to get things moving and don't mind being told > "no," but at a certain point I feel like I will have to tell OSU that > I couldn't figure out who controls their current donation. > > Respectfully, > R0b0t1 > I have access to it (can spin up servers and whatnot), but it doesn't sound like that's what you are looking for (needing a non-virtualized system). What specific features are you looking for? Are you looking for rack space to put a donated IBM system in or what? I'm not certian what you are looking for. I'm on irc (as prometheanfire) if you want to talk. -- Matthew Thode (prometheanfire) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] PowerPC Resources at OSU
(Snip entire request explanation) Have you seen this page on this wiki? https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Infrastructure/Developer_Machines Did you reach out to anybody there for access? I do know that vapier hasn't been responding to emails, and I've granted some accounts to hake.hppa instead, since I do have root there. I can grant accounts on guppy as well if needed, but Infra does not generally have access to the machines (this has been a problem in the past for fixing issues with the machines hosted at OSUOSL). -- Robin Hugh Johnson Gentoo Linux: Dev, Infra Lead, Foundation Asst. Treasurer E-Mail : robb...@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85 GnuPG FP : 7D0B3CEB E9B85B1F 825BCECF EE05E6F6 A48F6136 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] PowerPC Resources at OSU
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 23:29:10 -0500 R0b0t1 wrote: > 1) May I have access to a/the POWER server, or some other suitable > POWER resource? If not, > 2) is anyone available to verify that I am associated with the project > or that I will use the resources for project related work? > > My intent is to experiment with the PowerPC architecture, specifically > features found on newer POWER processors and servers. It is unlikely I > will ever get to do this on my own as the machines run $10k-$30k. I > requested services from OSU because GCC was not able to accommodate my > request for hypervisor access on their system. > > However, having finally found the resources I've been looking for this > whole time, it looks like OSU's nodes are virtualized and won't be > able to do exactly what I want anyway (i.e. the GCC sysadmin was > misinformed), so I may have accidentally wasted people's time and > potentially tarnished Gentoo's reputation. I will make amends as best > I can. As of a few months ago, we have two POWER8 guests, one big endian (timberdoodle) and one little endian (bogsucker). We would just have one but you can't mix big and little endian on the same system. After the old POWER7 timberdoodle died, I was responsible for creating these new instances with some help from prometheanfire. Replacing CentOS systems that had tied up all the storage from the other side of the world with no direct raw access was an interesting challenge! I didn't intend to manage the systems long term though as I only use them for building and testing Java stuff. I consider prometheanfire, blueness, and vapier to be in charge though you may struggle getting hold of the latter two. We generally only give access to devs but I am aware of one exception we made for gnu_andrew, who works for Red Hat and provides our icedtea ebuilds. Unfortunately I've only seen you on this list but hopefully someone can vouch for you. I don't know whether these guests will be suitable for your needs though. -- James Le Cuirot (chewi) Gentoo Linux Developer pgpGPbYbQF_Ah.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] PowerPC Resources at OSU
On 9/12/17 4:30 PM, James Le Cuirot wrote: > On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 23:29:10 -0500 > R0b0t1 wrote: > >> 1) May I have access to a/the POWER server, or some other suitable >> POWER resource? If not, >> 2) is anyone available to verify that I am associated with the project >> or that I will use the resources for project related work? >> >> My intent is to experiment with the PowerPC architecture, specifically >> features found on newer POWER processors and servers. It is unlikely I >> will ever get to do this on my own as the machines run $10k-$30k. I >> requested services from OSU because GCC was not able to accommodate my >> request for hypervisor access on their system. >> >> However, having finally found the resources I've been looking for this >> whole time, it looks like OSU's nodes are virtualized and won't be >> able to do exactly what I want anyway (i.e. the GCC sysadmin was >> misinformed), so I may have accidentally wasted people's time and >> potentially tarnished Gentoo's reputation. I will make amends as best >> I can. > > As of a few months ago, we have two POWER8 guests, one big endian > (timberdoodle) and one little endian (bogsucker). We would just have > one but you can't mix big and little endian on the same system. > > After the old POWER7 timberdoodle died, I was responsible for creating > these new instances with some help from prometheanfire. Replacing > CentOS systems that had tied up all the storage from the other side of > the world with no direct raw access was an interesting challenge! > > I didn't intend to manage the systems long term though as I only use > them for building and testing Java stuff. I consider prometheanfire, > blueness, and vapier to be in charge though you may struggle getting > hold of the latter two. > > We generally only give access to devs but I am aware of one exception > we made for gnu_andrew, who works for Red Hat and provides our icedtea > ebuilds. Unfortunately I've only seen you on this list but hopefully > someone can vouch for you. I don't know whether these guests will be > suitable for your needs though. > I've been using timberdoodle, but not bogsucker. I haven't been following this thread, but if its a question of maintaining those machines, I can help out with that. -- Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D. Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened] E-Mail: bluen...@gentoo.org GnuPG FP : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA GnuPG ID : F52D4BBA
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: On dropping sparc@ from CC on bugs
On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Aaron Bauman wrote: > On Monday, September 11, 2017 3:43:13 AM EDT Sergei Trofimovich wrote: >> On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 22:18:08 + >> >> bugzilla-dae...@gentoo.org wrote: >> > DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL. Also, do not reply via email to the person >> > whose email is mentioned below. To comment on this bug, please visit: >> > >> > https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=621130 >> > >> > Aaron Bauman changed: >> >What|Removed |Added >> > >> > -- >> > --> >> > CC|sp...@gentoo.org| >> > >> > --- Comment #16 from Aaron Bauman --- >> > sparc was dropped to exp. >> > >> > https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/commit/?id=b5901d8f716555a1479f1 >> > 2313a2925fcadd177a9 >> [ CCed gentoo-dev@ to raise general awareness ] >> >> Why do you need to drop sparc@ from CC on all the bugs? >> >> It takes away possibility from users using sparc@ to report >> test status easily. Even after the bug is closed. >> >> sh@ and s390@ are also exp profiles and CC is one of mechanisms >> to ask arch teams to try keywording/stablereq. > > You're right. Fixed. Aaron's agreement was not an agreement at all. He ignored the request and instead removed the other exp arches from Cc. Before I realized this, I assumed that he was agreeing, so I readded sparc@ to the places he'd removed it. This evidently irritated him and he told me so on IRC. I suggested that when security bugs are complete, that if there are exp architectures still Cc'd, that security simply reassign to the maintainer and let the bug continue as a regular stabilization bug. Unfortunately Aaron says that this is far too much work -- the hassle of reassigning a bug and all.
Re: [gentoo-dev] PowerPC Resources at OSU
Hello, There are multiple replies below. On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Matthew Thode wrote: > I have access to it (can spin up servers and whatnot), but it doesn't > sound like that's what you are looking for (needing a non-virtualized > system). What specific features are you looking for? > > Are you looking for rack space to put a donated IBM system in or what? > I'm not certian what you are looking for. > My apologies, I tried to be comprehensive in my original post but it may have come out confused. I felt as if I did something bad and was trying to make sure I told someone right away, like my parents taught me. I am looking to verify that my request for shipping reimbursement could not be made superfluous. It looks like physical access to a system is necessary to continue doing most of the novel things I am interested in. Firstly I want to interact with the system firmware. This may only be possible with POWER8 systems. With the failure of the TALOS workstation crowdfunding effort it looks like I will not be able to do this soon. I intend to see what I can do to reverse engineer the motherboard firmware on a donated Power6+ system if/when I receive it. Secondly I wish to instrument PowerKVM and the newer PowerPC hypervisor functions, specifically related to processor power management, processor configuration, and memory model. The user mode SIMD/decimal128 instructions are also extremely interesting. Lastly I would like to run a Tinderbox targeting ppc64(le) to try to follow up on some build failures I've been having. On the systems I have access to at the moment I have been caught up in prefix/RAP failures while trying to set up a development environment otherwise I would have started following up on my latter interests. A shell account on a ppc64le machine running Gentoo would likely be enough. It would save me a lot of time. Otherwise I can wait until I receive a donated Power6+ machine, some way or another. > I'm on irc (as prometheanfire) if you want to talk. > I will try to remember that, but unfortunately I have less time to be on IRC now. Setting up a bouncer is on my list and I will get to it. On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Robin H. Johnson wrote: > Have you seen this page on this wiki? > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Infrastructure/Developer_Machines > > Did you reach out to anybody there for access? > No sir, my apologies for my confusion. I am not very smart and it has been hard to find information that might aid me in contributing to Gentoo. Much to my dismay useful information is usually available. I genuinely do not mean to ask useless questions. On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:30 PM, James Le Cuirot wrote: > As of a few months ago, we have two POWER8 guests, one big endian > (timberdoodle) and one little endian (bogsucker). We would just have > one but you can't mix big and little endian on the same system. > > After the old POWER7 timberdoodle died, I was responsible for creating > these new instances with some help from prometheanfire. Replacing > CentOS systems that had tied up all the storage from the other side of > the world with no direct raw access was an interesting challenge! > > I didn't intend to manage the systems long term though as I only use > them for building and testing Java stuff. I consider prometheanfire, > blueness, and vapier to be in charge though you may struggle getting > hold of the latter two. > > We generally only give access to devs but I am aware of one exception > we made for gnu_andrew, who works for Red Hat and provides our icedtea > ebuilds. Unfortunately I've only seen you on this list but hopefully > someone can vouch for you. I don't know whether these guests will be > suitable for your needs though. > I understand. Requesting resources on behalf of Gentoo was a line I was not willing to cross myself. It seems I misunderstood what desultory told me to do. The best I can offer is an explanation for what I wish to do and how it may end up impacting Gentoo in a positive way. Already my "work" (attempting to run bootstrap-rap.sh) on GCC112, GCC's ppc64le Linux system, has led to a number of bugs for the prefix and RAP projects. If I had use of a Gentoo ppc64le system I would likely be able to increase the stability of those architectures as I attempt to do normal things. This is the basis I used to request shipping reimbursement for a donated POWER6+ server. The tracker has some bugs I have submitted and others I have commented on (I would link to them but I haven't figured out how to find all bugs by me, or all bugs that I have commented on). There are people who would recognize my name but as I said before, now a line has been crossed. I do not want to make anyone feel like I am cornering them. Respectfully, R0b0t1
