Re: New Project Form

[Greg Stein]

On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 08:56:55PM -0400, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> To help streamline the process of getting new projects setup, I've started a
> draft form, based upon the one Ted used over the summer.  I think he got it
> from Tetsuya originally.
> 
> It needs additional work.  Expecially if the Scarab and Subversion sections
> are to be filled in.  But it is a start.
> 
>   --- Noel
> 
> New Project Form:
> http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?NewProjectForm


For incubation, I *really* don't think you want separate dev/user mailing
lists. For most projects, you're working on setting up a new (ASF)
community. Starting off with a *partition* between the developers and
their end-users just doesn't seem like a good option.

And regarding the pushing of CVS commits to the dev list (the page doesn't
describe this, but some existing projects have done this): there are a lot
of people who want to participate in development discussions but are
completely uninterested in the commit emails. And given that users are on
that dev list, then there is a double-reason to keep the commit mails on a
separate list. It provides an opt-in for people who need/want to see
those. (of course, all committers should be on the cvs list; it is just
that not all devs are committers)

I recognize that you stated this at the top of the page, but the rest of
the page doesn't look like that at all. If anything, I'd recommend
altering the page to the dev/cvs mailing list pair, and adding a note that
an incoming project with a *large* user community *may* want to create a
separate user list. (tho I still think cvs should not forward to dev)

For the Subversion section, what is it that you're looking for? The URL
for the project?

  http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/$TLP/$PROJECT/

Since the SVN repos is set up with repos-wide access, anybody can create
the initial directory(-ies). Committers need to be added to:

  minotaur:/x1/svn/asf-committers

(an htpasswd file)

There is no separate configuration needed for anonymous or ViewCVS access
(like the cvspublic thing for cvs).

Is that what you were looking for? Anything else?

Cheers,
-g

-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

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Re: projects "in" versus "entering" versus "affiliated with" the incubator

[Nicola Ken Barozzi]

Roy T. Fielding wrote:

The page is obsolete and does not reflect reality, the distinction is 
really not there.
Right, the existing web site is nothing more than a draft.  That is why
it is a bit silly to create all these other "draft" and "whiteboard" and
"wiki" places for other drafts.  Please move all relevant content to the
website ASAP, delete all old content and "draft" sections, and let us
know when the new content is in place so that we can all edit *one*
source.  I almost did that yesterday but found that none of the real
content was in CVS HEAD -- that is bad, since it gets in the way
of part-time collaboration.
The only source is the "incubator" CVS since 16 October, when I posted 
the "[HEADSUP] New Incubator site in CVS" mail. Where did you look to 
find obsolete content?

You are completely right about the website not updated and the Wiki 
stuff still there after being already moved to the CVS, I will fix this 
just after sending this mail.

BTW, things like the CLA form do not belong in incubator.  I'll start
moving them to the www.apache.org/dev site.
Ok.

--
Nicola Ken Barozzi   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
   (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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[FYI] Building the website

[Nicola Ken Barozzi]

Since there have been complaints about how the site is generated qith 
Forrest, I have made changes to the site layout, that I have outlined in 
previous mails, and to Forrest itself. So to generate the website one 
needs to get CVS forrest and install that.

What I suggest for editors is that for now they can edit the pages 
without generating the site, and just validate the xml with a validating 
editor before committing. For the wiki pages it's plain text, so it's 
easier. I will take care of doing builds, fixing eventual errors and 
updating the site for now, till the Forrestbot is not setup.

In any case, if someone wants to check the look of the pages, do this:

 get or update xml-forrest from CVS
 run the build script
 set FORREST_HOME to point to the build/dist/shbat
 add build/dist/shbat/bin to the PATH
 get or update "incubator"  from CVS
 cd into the local "incubator" CVS dir
 execute "forrest run"
 point the browser to http://localhost:/ to see the site
 edit the docs *in place* and see changes in teh browser by reloading
  the page
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
   (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Proposal: Sponsor becomes Mentor

[Greg Stein]

On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 06:53:14PM +0200, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>...
> Hence I propose that we have:
> 
>   - Sponsor: the Apache entity (PMC) that sponsors the project
>  and that will recieve it upon succesfull incuabtion.
>   - Mentor:  the Apache member or Sponsor PMC member that will
>  assist in incubation. He will become part of the
>  Incubator PMC.
> 
> In this way we ensure that the currently defined Sponsor follows the 
> project and that the Mentor is always pre-proposed by the candidate (so 
> we don't need go hinting for it).
> 
> What do you think?

Sounds good to me. (with the caveat that you already took about projects
sponsored by the Board, who are (typically) going to exit into a new PMC)

Note: I'm not the Mentor for Geronimo (which I saw on your example site).
Jim Jagielski is. I participated in the launch, and particularly in terms
of the "public face" for the ASF, but I'm not tightly involved with the
project.

Cheers,
-g

-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

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Re: minimum advance notice for "review of activity"?

[Berin Lautenbach]

Rodney Waldhoff wrote:
Under
,
we state:
"The Incubator PMC SHALL inform Podlings of review dates at least 4 weeks
in advance."
and that

"At least one week prior to each review, the Mentor MUST produce a report
for the Incubator PMC detailing overall progress [...]"
Is it safe to assume that this time frame may be shortened based upon a
mutual agreement of the incubating project and the Incubator PMC?
Otherwise all review actions take at least a month, which depending upon
the reason for continuation, may be an inordinate amount of time.
Yes, I think you are correct.

The intent of the above was about creating some minimum reporting 
requirements.  I think it might be worth adding something in there about
"Podlings/Mentors MAY also request a review of activity or issues at any 
other time".  (Better worded, but it's dinner time and I'm in a hurry :>.)

Cheers,
Berin
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How to manage change in the Incubator rules

[Nicola Ken Barozzi]

The new website is up, and we have a new set of docs about how to do 
incubation. They are labeled as draft, but in rality they are more real 
and used than ever. They are clearly not draft AFAIS.

Apache projects usually make releases, and have deliverables. The code 
they put in is managed through lazy consensus and voting only when it's 
deemed to be required or requested.

Incubator releases are basically Incubated Projects' release to the 
Sponsor PMC. So I gather that how incubation is done is our "code".

Hence I would not see the need to "ratify" such rules as has been 
suggested if there seems to be consensus, as it's much easier to manage IMO.

Because of this, I would suggest that we remove the "draft" status on 
our policy docs and simply use them as our guide, that will change in 
need without having to go through tedious votes when there is good 
consensus.

Objections?

--
Nicola Ken Barozzi   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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   (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: How to manage change in the Incubator rules

[Davanum Srinivas]

+1 

Thanks,
dims

--- Nicola Ken Barozzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> The new website is up, and we have a new set of docs about how to do 
> incubation. They are labeled as draft, but in rality they are more real 
> and used than ever. They are clearly not draft AFAIS.
> 
> Apache projects usually make releases, and have deliverables. The code 
> they put in is managed through lazy consensus and voting only when it's 
> deemed to be required or requested.
> 
> Incubator releases are basically Incubated Projects' release to the 
> Sponsor PMC. So I gather that how incubation is done is our "code".
> 
> Hence I would not see the need to "ratify" such rules as has been 
> suggested if there seems to be consensus, as it's much easier to manage IMO.
> 
> Because of this, I would suggest that we remove the "draft" status on 
> our policy docs and simply use them as our guide, that will change in 
> need without having to go through tedious votes when there is good 
> consensus.
> 
> Objections?
> 
> -- 
> Nicola Ken Barozzi   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  - verba volant, scripta manent -
> (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
> -
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 


=
Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/

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Re: How to manage change in the Incubator rules

[Greg Stein]

On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 04:08:31PM +0200, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Incubator releases are basically Incubated Projects' release to the 
> Sponsor PMC. So I gather that how incubation is done is our "code".
> 
> Hence I would not see the need to "ratify" such rules as has been 
> suggested if there seems to be consensus, as it's much easier to manage IMO.
> 
> Because of this, I would suggest that we remove the "draft" status on 
> our policy docs and simply use them as our guide, that will change in 
> need without having to go through tedious votes when there is good 
> consensus.

+1 to all parts.

Cheers,
-g

-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

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Re: How to manage change in the Incubator rules

[Erik Abele]

On 22/10/2003, at 08:00, Greg Stein wrote:

On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 04:08:31PM +0200, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Incubator releases are basically Incubated Projects' release to the
Sponsor PMC. So I gather that how incubation is done is our "code".
Hence I would not see the need to "ratify" such rules as has been
suggested if there seems to be consensus, as it's much easier to 
manage IMO.

Because of this, I would suggest that we remove the "draft" status on
our policy docs and simply use them as our guide, that will change in
need without having to go through tedious votes when there is good
consensus.
+1 to all parts.
Same here, +1 and btw, excellent work Nicola!

Cheers,
Erik
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RE: How to manage change in the Incubator rules

[Noel J. Bergman]

> The new website is up, and we have a new set of docs about how to do
> incubation. They are labeled as draft, but in rality they are more real
> and used than ever. They are clearly not draft AFAIS.

> I would suggest that we remove the "draft" status on our
> policy docs and simply use them as our guide

+1  ;-)

Would you please consider eliminating:

  http://incubator.apache.org/images/apache-incubator-logo.png

from the layout?  We already have:

  http://incubator.apache.org/images/apache-incubator.png

and you've made the page almost wider than my laptop screen!  :-)

Now that the site changes are in place, what are the odds we can get the
Directory project setup before I leave for Software Summit?

--- Noel


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Apache Geronimo

[Vinay Menon]

Hi.

I would like to get involved with the "Apache Geronimo" project.

I'd like to get more details..

Regards.

Vinay

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Re: [FtpServer]Site Generation

[Nicola Ken Barozzi]

Rana Bhattacharyya wrote:

Hi,
 Sorry for the cross posting. I don't know where from
I shall get the help. Recently I have changed the FTP
server doc. Can somebody please tell me how can I
update the FTP server site. 
ATM you should check-in the generated pages in the "incubator-site" CVS 
module under \incubator-site\build\site\projects\ftpserver\**.

When the site is updated from CVS (IIUC it's once a day) it will be live.

If you have other questions, feel free to post them on the 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] list. In case of Project development 
questions, there is the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list.

--
Nicola Ken Barozzi   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
   (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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[STATUS] (incubator) Wed Oct 22 23:45:41 EDT 2003

[Rodent of Unusual Size]

APACHE INCUBATOR PROJECT STATUS:  -*-indented-text-*-
Last modified at [$Date: 2003/10/09 23:34:53 $]

Web site:  http://Incubator.Apache.Org/
Wiki page: http://Nagoya.Apache.Org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheIncubatorProjectPages

[note: the Web site is the 'official' documentation; the wiki pages
 are for collaborative development, including stuf destined for the
 Web site.]

Open Items needing immediate resolution:


1. Jim Jagieski has resigned and the PMC has elected Nicola Ken Barozzi
   as the new chair-elect.  The next step is for the ASF board to
   ratify the selection and formally install Nicola as the new chair.

2. We need to be very very clear about what it takes to be accepted
   into the incubator.  It should be a very low bar to leap, possibly
   not much more than 'no problematic code' and the existence of a
   healthy community (we don't want to become a dumping ground).

3. We need to be very very clear about what it takes for a podling
   to graduate from the incubator.  The basic requirements obviously
   include: has a home, either as part of another ASF project or as
   a new top-level project of its own; needs to be a credit to the
   ASF and function well in the ASF framework; ...

The Incubation Process
==

Identify the project to be incubated:

  -- Make sure that the requested project name does not already exist
 and check www.nameprotect.com to be sure that the name is not
 already trademarked for an existing software product.

  -- If request from an existing Apache project to adopt an external
 package, then ask the Apache project for the cvs module and mail
 address names.

  -- If request from outside Apache to enter an existing Apache project,
 then post a message to that project for them to decide on acceptance.

  -- If request from anywhere to become a stand-alone PMC, then assess
 the fit with the ASF, and create the lists and modules under the
 incubator address/module names if accepted.

Interim responsibility:

  -- Who has been identified as the mentor for the incubation?

  -- Are they tracking progress in the file

  incubator/projects/{project_name}/STATUS

Copyright:

  -- Have the papers that transfer rights to the ASF been received?
 It is only necessary to transfer rights for the package, the
 core code, and any new code produced by the project.

  -- Have the files been updated to reflect the new ASF copyright?

Verify distribution rights:

  -- For all code included with the distribution that is not under the
 Apache license, do we have the right to combine with Apache-licensed
 code and redistribute?

  -- Is all source code distributed by the project covered by one or more
 of the following approved licenses:  Apache, BSD, Artistic, MIT/X,
 MIT/W3C, MPL 1.1, or something with essentially the same terms?

Establish a list of active committers:

  -- Are all active committers in the STATUS file?

  -- Do they have accounts on cvs.apache.org?

  -- Have they submitted a contributors agreement?

Infrastructure:

  -- CVS modules created and committers added to avail file?

  -- Mailing lists set up and archived?

  -- Problem tracking system (Bugzilla)?

  -- Has the project migrated to our infrastructure?

Collaborative Development:

  -- Have all of the active long-term volunteers been identified
 and acknowledged as committers on the project?

  -- Are there three or more independent committers?

 [The legal definition of independent is long and boring, but basically
  it means that there is no binding relationship between the individuals,
  such as a shared employer, that is capable of overriding their free
  will as individuals, directly or indirectly.]

  -- Are project decisions being made in public by the committers?

  -- Are the decision-making guidelines published and agreed to by
 all of the committers?

Organizational acceptance of responsibility for the project:

  -- If graduating to an existing PMC, has the PMC voted to accept it?

  -- If graduating to a new PMC, has the board voted to accept it?

Incubator sign-off:

  -- Has the Incubator decided that the project has accomplished all
 of the above tasks? 


Incubator Project
=

Background:

o IRC channel #apache-incubator on irc.freenode.net
  (traffic is SUPPOSED to be logged to
  http://Source-Zone.Org/apache-irc/> so that
  the content of interactive discussions is available
  to everyone, but the logger isn't working)

o Mailing lists:
  - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (send to
[EMAIL PROTECTED])

  - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (only for private communication)
No project decisions will be made on the PMC list.

o This status file is mailed to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  every Wednesday

Project committers (as of 2003-03-29):

o incubator-core:
  aaron,coar,fielding,fitz,gst