Re: Transition Docs to Inline

2024-01-11 Thread Ken Whitesell

On 1/11/2024 12:01 AM, Moshe Dicker wrote:

I should not that I'm only being critical to improve.
The docs are well written, it's just disorganized.


Something I've learned over the past 47 years of reading computer 
documentation is that _no_ documentation is "perfect" - especially not 
for everyone.


All documentation is a compromise.

Different people have different ways of reading and understanding 
written material. There is no "one right way" to write or organize a set 
of manuals. The best you can hope for is to create docs that are 
complete, materially correct, and internally consistent.


I have also learned through the years that it's _me_ that needs to adapt 
myself to the different styles of documentation available. Yes, I have 
preferences for certain styles. But, I also recognize that not everyone 
reads and processes information the same way I do. I have no doubt that 
_you_ would find it an improvement to change the docs as you describe. 
However, I would suggest that you not try to sell the idea as being 
objectively true for everyone and that it's "obviously better".


Me? Personally, I have an extreme dislike of docs embedded in code. When 
I want to read the code, I want to see the code - not a full set of 
reference information that I have to wade through - and ignore - while 
I'm trying to find the information I want to see.


I want the code to be free of any clutter that can be better stored 
elsewhere.


Likewise, I greatly prefer docs that go well beyond just being an "API 
reference". I find sites for libraries showing nothing more than 
Javadoc-style pages to be virtually useless to me when I'm first getting 
started.


I have long maintained that I am more than twice as productive using 
Python than I am in any other language - and part of that is the quality 
of the Python docs. I always seem to be able to easily find what I'm 
looking for.


In my opinion, the Django docs are close - but not quite as good - as 
the Python docs. There are a couple of specific topics where I do find 
myself thinking "Where is that documented?" and have to search for it. 
It's not that I think they're in the "wrong" place, but it's probably 
not where _I_ would have put that information. But that's ok, I probably 
should just bookmark those pages...


So no, I'd be a strong -1 to any recommendation suggesting that 
docstrings be used to clutter up the code.



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Re: Transition Docs to Inline

2024-01-11 Thread Jörg Breitbart
I agree that the official Python docs are well maintained and achieve a 
tough goal - the right balance of just replaying basic interface facts 
on one side, or being overly prosaic on the other side. Nope, they are 
well balanced giving enough of both extremes to get you going, place 
repo code lookup links, and examples where needed.


And Python properly fills the __doc__ attribute on almost every function 
or class, which is a big relief in interactive testing sessions to 
quickly grasp a rarely used detail not in your muscle memory.


With Django thats mostly not possible, inspecting __doc__ or using 
help(XY) does often not reveal any useful information.


> So no, I'd be a strong -1 to any recommendation suggesting that
> docstrings be used to clutter up the code.

I dont see how informative docstrings can clutter code, they are 
visually well separated from code bodies, and most editors ven allow to 
fold them.


The bigger issue I see with docstrings is, that they sometimes end up 
being written too machine firendly, e.g. full of restructuredText 
formatting, which hinders human reading to some degree, esp. if you 
never used those formats yourself before.


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