Re: What are the basic, invariant rules of Apache projects?

[Shane Curcuru]

Bertrand - thanks for kicking this off!  One key point, once edited, is 
to break the invariants up into coherent sections, so it's really simple 
for someone to read through and see what each rule applies to.  Voting, 
Community-led; public decisions; merit?


You missed the most important rule: Apache releases must use the Apache 
license.


One other aspect I think is important: neutrality.  The ASF is a place 
where individuals come to collaborate freely and equally.  Corporations 
may fund individuals to contribute to ASF projects, but PMCs must ensure 
that the project is managed for the benefit of the community as a whole, 
and not for any one corporation.



To address other comments on this thread (I'm reading through the 
archives, not subscribed):


- The primary point of this exercise is to list the very core "rules" of 
what it means to be an Apache project (i.e., a project that is hosted at 
the ASF).


The ASF is a public charity that exists to provide software for the 
public good.  However we believe as an organization that there are 
certain *ways* that a project operates - best practices, modes of 
operation, whatever you want to call it - that make for sustainable 
software projects.  Apache projects are expected to follow these basic 
*ways* to manage themselves. [1]


- A key audience is our existing communities - especially PMC members, 
but also committers and others active in our projects.


- There is a lot of documentation - some official, much unofficial - 
about how to run Apache projects.  This is an attempt to distill some of 
the core invariants - as Bertrand said - to ensure that everyone 
understands the basics: these are effectively requirements at the ASF. 
Note the many links that will come from this to more thorough 
documentation about specific issues (merit, votes, releases, etc.)


- It's clear that there's still a wide variety of insights as to what 
the "Apache Way" is.  While having different ways to express the "Way" 
is good (different people will read or better understand different 
presentations - this in no way can substitute for personal contacts. 
Justin and a number of other people are right when they note that the 
best way to spread the "Way" is for people to get engaged with new 
projects and help them out directly.


- When Bertrand is talking about a blog post, I believe he means posting 
on the Foundation blog, which *is* an official voice of the ASF - a 
subset of members have write privileges there.  I believe it would also 
be useful if other comdev folks wrote personal blog posts about their 
own perspectives on these Ways - to get the personal take and what it 
means for people always helps explain what and why it is.


 http://blogs.apache.org/foundation/

- Shane Curcuru
VP, Brand Management, The Apache Software Foundation

[1] This doesn't meant that there aren't other ways of managing 
projects, and that there aren't many many other successful projects. 
This is not at all to say that we know the best way to do things - there 
are lots of brilliant projects out there!  But it is the "Apache Way", 
and we expect that projects hosted at the ASF will follow the basic rules.


P.S. You can paint the bikeshed any color you want as long as it's 
white. 8-)

Re: [DISCUSS] [VOTE] roll women@a.o into dev@community.a.o

[Shane Curcuru]

Bertrand wrote:

Comdev people, please vote on folding women@ into this mailing list,
see also [1].

The idea is to close the women@ list and/or or setup an autoresponder
that directs people to this list instead.

[ ] +1 let's dot it
[ ] -1 no, because...
[ ] +0 don't care


+1 (non-binding) to close the women@ list and have the autoresponder 
point to d...@community.  I would object to having the list remain open 
but also have an autoresponder; that's just too confusing.


Anjana G Bhattacharjee wrote:
...

Ross Gardler wrote:

...

The decision to roll women@ into ComDev was not "agreed" (as you put it)
at the barcamp session either. It was a suggestion from the board when the
ComDev resolution was passed.



While there's a lot of interesting discussion here, and it's nice to see 
people actively thinking about the issue of women@ again!, I'll just 
point out the part: "...was a suggestion from the board..."


...

The actual decision to roll women@ into comdev is the subject of a vote
currently underway on comdev and this list was notified of the vote [2] to
ensure full transparency.



Having duly noted the manner of this notification earlier this weekend, my
concern has been, again, that the process of holding a vote that affects
members of one list at a place off their home list, which therefore requires
them to sign up to another list before even getting a chance to voice
concerns relevant to them, is not good enough, even in this day and age imho
- hence my specifically joining the women@ list this weekend in order to
primarily bring these discussions, at least, back to its home turf.


Given the virtual silence on the women@ list for the past year or more, 
I don't see any coherent community on the women@ list - hence, having 
the ComDev PMC take over (however they feel is appropriate) is the right 
thing to do.  Lacking that, it's likely that either the board of infra 
would simply shut down the women@ list without further discussion, 
because it's not appropriate for the ASF to host resources without a 
specific officer or PMC to be responsible for them.  This isn't a value 
judgement on what women@ is supposed to be for; it's simply that we need 
to have a specific responsible owner for our resources.



Don't get me wrong: I would love to see some PMC find sufficient healthy 
community to have someplace to comfortably discuss gender issues and 
help do outreach to underserved communities.  But the current women@ 
list doesn't qualify as a community (from the ASF perspective of 
"community") at all at the moment.


- Shane

Boosting participation and community in Apache Labs?

[Shane Curcuru]

I was just wondering...

The Labs project (a place where any committer can starup their own 
independent mini-"project" to work on, potentially with other 
committers) has been awfully quiet lately.


I was wondering: is doing an article or FAQ or some sort of mentor 
outreach within ComDev a good way to increase the sense of community 
within Labs?


While there are plenty of free places to get SVN/CVS/git hosting for 
individuals, using Labs by committers gives them some visibility and the 
chance to collaborate safely with other committers.  It feels like with 
the breadth of committers we currently have that there'd be more sense 
of community and interaction within Labs.


Is this something comdev might have ideas about (by publicising to 
committers or getting mentors to talk it up, or whatever)?  Or am I just 
having some wishful thinking?


- Shane

Re: [proposal] integrating womAn@a.o into an Apache code of practice

[Shane Curcuru]

Anjana G Bhattacharjee wrote:

Just a note to mark 7 days since the date of this proposal - thank you for
all responses so far - still listening ;-) best, A


Oh, sorry, I had thought it was an intellectual exercise to spur some 
new thoughts and get some random golf-related links into our archives 
for some reason.


-1, because we've shown numerous times that broadly scoped mailing lists 
that aren't controlled by a healthy PMC won't work.


-1 also because we have no need to provide anonymization services like 
the proposal notes the woman@ address would be used for.  While people 
are free to use whatever external email address for themselves they 
wish, the ASF doesn't need to provide an anonymous front-end for them.


- Shane

P.S. Please remember that the women@ email list will be shut down just 
as soon as the infrastructure team finishes the JIRA ticket.





On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Anjana G Bhattacharjee <
a.g.bhattachar...@gmail.com> wrote:


20100722 / APORIA WORK / XIIX

PROPOSAL SUMMARY

Previously at Apache, we have had a list named "wo...@a.o" that both men
and women have posted and subscribed to at varying degrees of overt
participation.

Now, personally would like to propose having a single email address, to be
named "wo...@apache.org" that can be used by both men and women to make a
post.

This email address would ostensibly be assigned to one person, e.g. me, to
start with, and once a working technical specification has been agreed, if
possible, all other persons would be able to invoke use of it in any
situation where he/she/they sees fit and/or where he/she/they may find it
preferable to disclosing their usual email address at the time of use,
albeit in good faith.

...

One of the first apache-extras projects already

[Shane Curcuru]

https://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/p/examine/

Plenty of twitter traffic so far; would be great to get some press hits 
as well.


Thanks to ComDev especially Luciano and Ross, and also to all the 
Googlefolk who put it together (and wrote us a nice blog posting from 
their side as well).


- Shane

Re: Returned post for dev@community.apache.org

[Shane Curcuru]

Ooops, trying again:
Shane Curcuru wrote (in an earlier email that didn't get delivered):
In general, projects at Apache Extras are just like any third party 
product, and should not use Apache marks in their product name.  The 
only blanket exception is to use a Powered By or other similarly 
distinct form of a name as noted here:


http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#poweredby

The issue from the trademark perspective is that Apache Extras projects 
are run by third parties, and are explicitly not run by our PMCs.  To 
ensure Apache trademarks remain associated with the actual Apache 
projects, we need to ensure that third parties respect those marks.


That said, this is a good area for discussion, because we do want to be 
as flexible as possible with third parties who do respect our marks, who 
are building software that enhances our products.


I'm wondering if we can come up with a basic process by where PMCs can 
approve specific Apache Extras projects in a way that 1) allows obvious 
names like this to be OK, and 2) ensures Apache marks aren't diluted in 
other areas, especially outside of Apache Extras.


Although we try to make explicitly clear the separation between Apache 
Extras projects and Apache projects, it feels like there will be plenty 
of times where existing committers and PMC members will be using Apache 
Extras to host exactly this kind of thing - non-AL code that is an 
obvious add-on to an existing Apache project.  Given the fact that in 
this case, we already know the people running the project, and the fact 
that we exercise some control over the apache-extras.org domain and 
hosting itself, I'd feel comfortable in having a much more liberal 
"licensing" policy for projects at Apache Extras.


- Shane, looking for feedback and people to actively help organize this


Ross Gardler wrote:
That part of the FAQ is under the control of the trademarks committee. 
So I'm copying to that list.


As a reminder, our policy is not to police apache-extras.org unless 
there is a complaint from an Apache Project.


Ross

On 06/04/2011 07:48, Gert Vanthienen wrote:

L.S.,


In the FAQ at apache-extras.org (
http://community.apache.org/apache-extras/guidelines.html ) it says

"Therefore, we require project owners to respect the Apache Software
Foundation trademark policy, including 1) not using Apache or an
existing Apache project name in your Apache Extras project name, and
2) not using org.apache as the prefix for your bundle or package name.
"

While creating a project called servicemix-extra, this was seemingly
in violation with part 1) because we do in include ServiceMix in the
Apache Extras project name.  Since there are already a lot of projects
out there that have the same naming convention, I suspect the FAQ
entry should read something like...

"Therefore, we require project owners to respect the Apache Software
Foundation trademark policy, including 1) not using Apache in your
Apache Extras project name, 2) not using an existing Apache project
name as your Apache Extras project name, and 3) not using org.apache
as the prefix for your bundle or package name. "

Is this the correct interpretation of the given FAQ entry?  If so,
shouldn't we update the entry to avoid confusing simple souls like
myself?


Regards,

Gert Vanthienen

FuseSource
Web: http://fusesource.com
Blog: http://gertvanthienen.blogspot.com/

Re: FAQ for apache-extras.org

[Shane Curcuru]

Daniel Shahaf wrote:

Shane Curcuru wrote on Wed, Apr 06, 2011 at 10:38:04 -0400:

Given the fact that in this case, we already know the people running
the project, and the fact that we exercise some control over the
apache-extras.org domain and hosting itself, I'd feel comfortable in
having a much more liberal "licensing" policy for projects at Apache
Extras.


IANL, but did you put the word "licensing" in quotes?


Yes, I put the word "licensing" in quotes, because I'm pretty tired 
today and didn't mean to say specific legal licenses, but wasn't sure 
how to express it.  Certainly not great grammar but my brain wasn't 
finding the right word today.


- Shane

Re: [Proposal] Apache Local Community - how to list yourself

[Shane Curcuru]

Great ideas all!

Swapnil M Mane wrote on 2019-6-27 8:34AM EDT:
...snip...
> The nearby Apache people can be found here [1], and Apache Committers map
> [2] can also help, but I think, it is not up to date.
> 
> Hope these details will help you, I am excited to work together :)
> 
> [1] http://community.zones.apache.org/
> [2] http://community.zones.apache.org/map.html

The Committers map definitely works, however it relies on individual
committers voluntarily listing a location for themselves - the ASF does
not otherwise give out private data about committers.  It also hasn't
been well-publicised recently, so I think a lot of committers don't even
know about it.  Ideas on 1) how to improve it and 2) how to get other
committers in your project(s) to think about listing themselves are
appreciated.

To list yourself on the map, put a location in a FOAF file and point to
it from the committers SVN repo:

  https://home.apache.org/foaf/index.html

If anyone has improvements to the ComDev website or the Phone
Book/home.apache.org, you can see the website sources to patch:

  http://community.apache.org/about/#about-this-website

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Re: [Proposal] Apache Local Community - meetups

[Shane Curcuru]

Peter Hunsberger wrote on 2019-6-27 8:51AM EDT:
> Around here we get a lot of local development focused groups on
> Meetup.com...

Note that the ASF's VP of Conferences has a page that will list Meetups
and similar events that are run by Apache projects:

  https://events.apache.org/event/meetups.html

That's another great way to help other people find out about any local
Apache project meetings/talks that you organize.  Note that Rich (VP
Conferences) also travels to many conferences, so please be patient when
asking for updates to that page (or, help volunteer on maintenance!)

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Re: [Proposal] Apache Local Community - meetups

[Shane Curcuru]

Dmitriy Pavlov wrote on 2019-6-29 1:47PM EDT:
> Hi Shane,
> 
> This list looks outdated. README about how to update the list gives 404.

LOL.  I've updated the site to point to the new location for README:

  https://events.apache.org/README.txt

There's a script to scrape meetup.com someone can run periodically.
Comdev committers are also welcome to edit the page directly, although I
think it gets  (mostly) overwritten by the script.  (Sorry, that's the
limit of my knowledge here!)

Website source code is here:

  https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/concom/site/trunk/content/

> 
> Can any Apache Project committer update it? If so, I could update this page
> from time to time:
> - Once I've shared Apache Ignite meetup link
> - and I saw one request to update this list at com.dev list recently.
...snip...
>>> Peter Hunsberger wrote on 2019-6-27 8:51AM EDT:
 Around here we get a lot of local development focused groups on
 Meetup.com...
>>>
>>> Note that the ASF's VP of Conferences has a page that will list Meetups
>>> and similar events that are run by Apache projects:
>>>
>>>   https://events.apache.org/event/meetups.html
>>>
>>> That's another great way to help other people find out about any local
>>> Apache project meetings/talks that you organize.  Note that Rich (VP
>>> Conferences) also travels to many conferences, so please be patient when
>>> asking for updates to that page (or, help volunteer on maintenance!)
...
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Re: Focused effort on Apache Way education

[Shane Curcuru]

For those working on this subject, I have a list of resources, including
detailed pointers to some great slide decks:

  http://shaneslides.com/2017/04/History-Of-The-Apache-Way/

Having the whys behind the concepts is important, and having individual
stories to help explain real-life situations also helps.  Thus the
effort here is mutual, with various people writing different parts.

My main suggestion is to start a single page on community.a.o that
provides a short overview and then links comprehensively to whatever
content ComDev comes up with.  It won't be clear how to best package
everything up for training (or the like) until we have more stories and
we can review the several existing slide decks that have great bits.

ComDev website how to:

  https://community.apache.org/about/#about-this-website

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Re: Repository "linting" for OSS compliance

[Shane Curcuru]

Branko Čibej wrote on 2019-10-10 7:58AM EDT:
> On 09.10.2019 23:26, Mark Thomas wrote:
>> On 09/10/2019 21:14, Benjamin Young wrote:
...snip...
>> Or you could use Apache RAT...
>> https://creadur.apache.org/rat/
> 
> I have to wonder how an incubating project doesn't know about this,
> given that RAT reports are mandatory for incubating releases.

I suppose this is really a question for the Incubator, but: where is
the requirement for using Apache Rat documented? Googling rat
site:incubator.apache.org doesn't show any relevant hits, and from the
Cookbook I can see, it's not documented.

I mean, it's a good idea, and I hope mentors are working with podlings
on it, but it wasn't obvious to me.


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Re: Gathering feedback for Survey

[Shane Curcuru]

Katia Rojas wrote on 2019-10-18 4:40AM EDT:
...snip...
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ooz3OFomWFXV4uPb7A4mArFRI-KfXeNSV-_M6knv2Ds/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> Deadline is 18th October.
> 
> The main purpose of this survey is to gather feedback from all existing ASF
> contributors about the current level of diversity and inclusion, including
> education, age, socio-economic status, and gender.  The survey will take 15
> minutes of your time and is voluntary. Your responses will be anonymous,
> unless you want to share your email address for follow-on questions. All
> data will be reported at an aggregate level and will help us understand the
> experiences of different groups.

Great stuff, commented.  Sorry, I may have made some small suggested
corrections in the doc instead of comments; I missed the comment here
about primarily using comments.

There are definitely a spots from the comments there now where keeping a
few places consistent in terminology - either within the survey, or with
past surveys (like education level) that feel important.  But overall
this looks great, and I'm looking forward to seeing our data!

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Re: ALC, and who can speak on behalf of Apache

[Shane Curcuru]

Rich Bowen wrote on 2019-12-4 3:15PM EST:
> I've made two posts on this list in the past couple of days regarding
> the rising ACL effort and my concerns about it.
> 
> I *desperately* want this kind of grass-roots enthusiast community
> effort. I do NOT want to kill it. But I've learned from Fedora user
> groups that allowing any random stranger to start up a group, using our
> Trademarks, to promote whatever message comes into their head, is
> *going* to bite us in the butt, sooner rather than later.
...snip...

Thanks for raising this up as the general question Rich, and yes, I
agree with you.  We've certainly had our trademarks abused in the past,
sometimes even by well-meaning groups that changed direction later, so
we absolutely need some sort of oversight here.

One place to start are existing trademark policies.  The events policy
covers all events using Apache trademarks, so start there:

  https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events

While that is primarily written for larger events, the concepts and
rationale apply to smaller events, meetups, and things like the ALC
concept as well.  So starting with that policy, and then suggesting
specific suggestions for recurring but larger meetups like ALC would be
helpful.

Separately, I'd suggest that people read the rationale in our Domain
Name Policy - while it's about domain names, the rationale explains
important concepts about how and why the ASF needs to control use of our
trademarks.

  https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/domains#rationale

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Re: ASF Project Licensing

[Shane Curcuru]

St Leger, Jim wrote on 2020-2-12 12:26PM EST:
> I have heard that ASF only accepts projects that are licensed under the 
> Apache license.
> I've searched and do not find this specifically called out. Perhaps it's 
> assumed.
> Can you please confirm or correct if this is the case?

It depends.  We always develop and *ship* software under Apache-2.0:

  https://www.apache.org/licenses/#distributions

But many of our projects contain dependencies or other materials that
may still be under other, similar permissive-style licenses.

> And if yes, does that mean that a project that uses another permissive 
> license (e.g. BSD, MIT, etc.) would have to get all copyright owners to agree 
> to a move to an Apache license prior to approaching the ASF?

The Incubator has an IP Clearance guide which is the place to start:

  https://incubator.apache.org/guides/ip_clearance.html

Once you have a proposal for bringing a project to the Incubator, there
are people on the relevant incubator mailing lists who can help with the
process.  In practice, accepting a codebase that's being willingly
donated and is under similar permissive licenses is just fine, and not
that hard to do.

Good luck!

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Re: Update information on community.apache.org

[Shane Curcuru]

Roy Lenferink wrote on 2020-2-16 6:34AM EST:
> Following the WEBSITE-HOWTO [1] I just updated the year from 2018 to 2020.
> However, a comdev-er still needs to publish the site [2] as I was unable to.
> "svnmucc: E175013: Access to
> '/repos/infra/!svn/txr/1056611-mpm7/websites/production/community/content'
> forbidden"

Done!  Excellent instructions, I had forgotten about the cms publish
links.  Thanks to Tomasz for reporting.

> [1] https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/blob/trunk/WEBSITE-HOWTO.txt
> [2] https://cms.apache.org/community/publish?diff=1

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Re: What license are the ICLA and CCLA available under?

[Shane Curcuru]

Christofer Dutz wrote on 2020-2-25 6:32AM EST:
> Hi all,
> 
> I know this is a strange question, but what license are our ICLA and CCLA 
> texts available under?
> I am asking because I’m involved in a new Open-Source project which is 
> licensing it’s stuff under the Apache 2.0 license. The project is organized 
> under a different freshly founded foundation. I suggested we put in place a 
> system with ICLAs and CCLAs and thought the Apache ones would work nicely … 
> unfortunately they don’t have License headers ;-)
> 
> Are our documents under Apache 2.0 License too?

The only place to get a definitive answer is from the Legal Affairs
Committee.

  https://www.apache.org/legal/#communications

You should open a JIRA asking both about these specific documents, and
about the case in general, so we can hopefully document this as a FAQ.

Elsethread, while I agree the Apache-2.0 license is a bit odd applied to
prose, my personal vote would be to treat everything the ASF publicly
produces as licensed under Apache-2.0 unless explicitly otherwise noted.
 The simplicity of saying "Everything from Apache not marked is
Apache-2.0" is a powerful statement (and much simpler to administer).

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Re: Emeritus process & tools

[Shane Curcuru]

David Smiley wrote on 2020-4-20 1:02PM EDT:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm a Lucene PMC member.  We haven't really tended to transferring members
> to Emeritus status for many years.  I am curious if the ASF can recommend
> the criteria / process for who this is done?  Furthermore, has anyone
> developed tools to aid in this process that we might use?  I'm thinking of
> a tool that searches JIRA to look for the most recent activity by an
> individual, for example.

Great question about tooling - Snoot statistics might help (not sure):

  https://projects.apache.org/statistics.html

Also: please note there is no official "emeritus" status for PMCs.
People either need to be on the PMC, or off the PMC, at least from an
organizational point of view (i.e. what's in LDAP/committee-info.txt)

  https://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#membersleave

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How NOT to test OSS security

[Shane Curcuru]

For those who review new contributions in their projects, a reminder:
there are rare cases where new contributors might be submitting junk:


https://fosspost.org/researchers-secretly-tried-to-add-vulnerabilities-to-linux-kernel/

Researchers from University of Minnesota wrote a paper about
purposefully submitting bogus patches or even potential vulnerabilities
to the Linux kernel.  They got caught just this week - but I could
imagine that some Apache projects are big enough to someday attract the
same kind of "research".

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Re: [PROPOSAL] homepages + mailing lists for communities of interests

[Shane Curcuru]

Bertrand Delacretaz wrote on 5/10/21 8:01 AM:
> Hi,
> 
> Following up on recent discussions I have created a proposal here:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/Communities+of+Interests+hosted+by+the+comdev+PMC

+1

It would be really useful to expand the intent with examples - i.e. this
is for geospatial standards, or healthcare API coordination amongst
several Apache projects.  That is specific technical (or standards,
organizational, etc.) areas of interest that several projects want to
specifically coordinate their work with.

Also, I'd suggest that formally requesting an interest area be done with
a specific JIRA ticket, so the setup tasks can be clearly delineated and
we'll have an easier to find record of who originally created / signed
up to oversee each interest page.


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Re: [apache/comdev-site] [Improved] Added ASF logo as the comdev site logo (#69)

[Shane Curcuru]

Who is garcYj-fybgeg-8nebqu on GitHub?  I just got three GitHub (not 
GitBox) notifications about comdev-site, which seems odd since this 
GitHub user doesn't seem to be associated with the Apache organization.


In particular, this change doesn't seem to make sense, since there isn't 
(yet?) a notifications@ list:



https://github.com/apache/comdev-site/pull/64/files/0c7c1a35611f8f7d2e4ad4d7aa28d2a4f4e9dfca

--
- Shane
  ComDev PMC
  The Apache Software Foundation


 Forwarded Message 
Subject: 	Re: [apache/comdev-site] [Improved] Added ASF logo as the 
comdev site logo (#69)

Date:   Sat, 01 Jan 2022 03:22:49 -0800
From:   garcYj-fybgeg-8nebqu 
Reply-To: 	apache/comdev-site 


To: apache/comdev-site 
CC: Subscribed 



*@garcYj-fybgeg-8nebqu* approved this pull request.

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Apache project guidelines docs += independence?

[Shane Curcuru]

A number of different issues recently about commercial influence in our
projects have had me thinking about the importance that Apache projects
are managed independently.  Since this isn't explicitly stated in the
obvious places, I wrote a little essay for my personal blog:

http://communityovercode.com/2011/05/apache-projects-are-independent/

Comments?  I think as the ASF grows up, and as some of our projects are
on the way to scoring mega stardom, it's important to ensure both that
our projects can continue to manage themselves independently, but also
to *explain* to the world that this is important to us, and why.

Do people like this?  Where would be a good place to put it in /dev or
the community site as a requirement for Apache projects?  I think it's
clear that the board (past, present, and future) will expect projects to
be managed independently, but it's not clear that we've done a good
enough job of explaining this yet.

- Shane

Re: Apache project guidelines docs += independence?

[Shane Curcuru]

Benson Margulies wrote:

There are some minor English language issues, like agreement in
number. Sean, do you want edits?


I'm not sure if Sean wants edits, since I don't know which Sean you 
mean. [1]


But I'm happy if people want to copy or adapt this blog posting to use 
on any apache.org website, preferably under /dev or on the community site.


I think it could definitely use some cleanup, and it especially could 
use some expanded explanations, both of the reasons for this rule, and 
for some of the specific ways that PMCs need to act or be seen to act.


In a perfect world, we'd actually have a series of essays.  Something 
like my posting as the header on the /dev site as official 
documentation.  Then get several people to write personal blog posts 
about the same topic, giving their perspective on what this means. 
Especially for a concept like "independence", I find it really helps to 
have several different people explain it in their own words - along with 
whatever official policy we post on apache.org somewhere.


- Shane

[1] Sorry to point out the obvious and presumably unintentional typo, 
but that's a name that I do not respond to.  8-P




On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Upayavira  wrote:

+! reads well and clarifies some useful points we often take for
granted.

Upayavira

On Mon, 16 May 2011 12:58 -0400, "Michael McCandless"
 wrote:

+1 this is an important topic and you explain it well.

I'm not sure where it should go but I agree it should be somewhere
"permanent" and visible.

Mike

http://blog.mikemccandless.com

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Shane Curcuru 
wrote:
> A number of different issues recently about commercial influence in our
> projects have had me thinking about the importance that Apache projects
> are managed independently. Â Since this isn't explicitly stated in the
> obvious places, I wrote a little essay for my personal blog:
>
> http://communityovercode.com/2011/05/apache-projects-are-independent/
>
> Comments? Â I think as the ASF grows up, and as some of our projects are
> on the way to scoring mega stardom, it's important to ensure both that
> our projects can continue to manage themselves independently, but also
> to *explain* to the world that this is important to us, and why.
>
> Do people like this? Â Where would be a good place to put it in /dev or
> the community site as a requirement for Apache projects? Â I think it's
> clear that the board (past, present, and future) will expect projects to
> be managed independently, but it's not clear that we've done a good
> enough job of explaining this yet.
>
> - Shane
>
>

Apache Governance: PMCs - blog post

[Shane Curcuru]

http://communityovercode.com/2011/11/apache-governance-pmcs/

I think this plus my previous governance article on the board would be 
useful essays for part of the ComDev site.  I envision a set of articles 
on ComDev that explain the "whys" of many of the things at Apache, to 
give newcomers some perspective on how and why things work they way they do.


I don't see this as replacing the apache.org/dev site, i.e. the official 
"How to be a committer / How to do PMC things" information, rather a 
more approachable way to see why these guidelines are the way they are, 
and to provide links to those more specific procedural documents.


Sound good?  Other ideas?

- Shane

Website improvement ideas

[Shane Curcuru]

With my shiny new PMC hat (thanks!) I've started thinking about some 
useful organization and presentation for the community.a.o pages.  Shout 
if you have suggested changes, or if I should not do any of these things 
someday:


- Update the top of the page to make the intro paras more engaging, and 
better explain that this is a group of Apache folk trying to better 
explain the whys of the Apache Way, and providing guidance to newcomers; 
punch up the welcoming and "please ask us!" aspects.


- Think about a second way to provide a table of contents to the site. 
I like the idea of newcomers/contributors/committers, but I think it 
would be really powerful to have a second TOC that talked about 
Organization, Technology, Community or similar.  Short descriptive lists 
that point to mostly the same info, but with a different bent.  Think of 
permuted indexes in old skool unix help.


- Add a section on Apache Governance, as a narrative description of the 
"why" of how we do things.  The details and normative descriptions of 
"how" will continue to live under /dev/ or similar places as they do now.


Apache Governance will have the two existing essays (board, PMCs), plus 
the existing "PMCs are independent", and then I want to write a Members, 
Committers, and possibly Sponsors and Contributors pages as well.  (The 
sponsors page will primarily be about how we certainly need funding, but 
that funding is never tied to influence or specific projects - a 
critical lesson about ways that Apache is not governed that I think many 
folks misunderstand).


- I'd like to add a Who We Are page to the community.a.o site.  While I 
one hand I appreciate the idea that we promote our communities, don't 
have @author tags, and the like, on the other hand for newcomers I often 
find that they sometimes are more willing to reach out or even just feel 
they could reach out to individuals instead of mailing lists.  Even if 
we don't list email addresses, I think listing who's a volunteer/PMC on 
the ComDev project would be a helpful way to put a face on this PMC. 
Heck, I think it'd actually be great to have a listing with photos and a 
short bio blurb, if we have consensus to add something like that.



Other ideas depend on how Ross & Nick want to propose organizing 
ourselves going forward, in terms of the events/speakers/slides sections.


- Shane

Re: Website improvement ideas

[Shane Curcuru]

ACK, ACK, you're both right.

The Apache Governance stuff fits in with my idea of ComDev providing 
background "why" information in a much simpler to read format.  Then the 
actual policies and the "How" and "Who" details are in the usual places 
under /dev.


The issue for me is that /dev, even with improvements in the past two 
years, is still a wild and wolly forest of unorganized stuff.  I 
sometimes try to figure out a way to organize one page, but then realize 
you can't touch any of the headers because some other random page links 
to them directly, and I wish I had a month to sit with an actual Editor 
and just completely reorganize the site (along with cleaning some of the 
remaining incorrect/outdated info).


So better explaining /dev, and especially catching old or confusingly 
worded (for a normal human) parts of /dev would be great to work on as 
well, if folks have time.


- Shane, rambling a bit

On 2011-11-25 8:43 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:

On 25 November 2011 09:42, Bertrand Delacretaz  wrote:

Hi Shane,

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Shane Curcuru  wrote:

With my shiny new PMC hat (thanks!) I've started thinking about some useful
organization and presentation for the community.a.o pages.  Shout if you
have suggested changes, or if I should not do any of these things someday...


I like your suggestions, just one comment: we should avoid duplicating
material that's available elsewhere on apache.org, to avoid confusion.
Either link to existing pages and improve them, or move content from
those pages to community.a.o.


I too like the suggestions. I also agree with the avoiding duplication comment.

What I have tried to do so far is provide very simple, very high level
guidance into our site. The problem I find with documentation in the
ASF is that it is typically spread all over the place, often
contradictory and always difficult to read (written by x different
authors over x years).

I think the goal of the ComDev site should be to have a reasonably
consistent tone that signposts other materials spread around the
apache.org domain.

Ross

Re: Website improvement ideas

[Shane Curcuru]

[PROPOSAL] I plan to create community.a.o/governance with:

/index: brief overview for new readers, and link to the subpages.  I was 
thinking of having two lists linked to the subpages: one by 
organizational hierarchy (the board is on top), one by importance (the 
PMCs are on top).


/board
/membership  (writing now)
/pmcs
/committers (tbd)
/contributors (tbd)
/users (tbd, wondering if we should write this one to show that users 
don't directly participate in governance, other than that most healthy 
projects will pay attention to user needs)


/orgchart - we really need one.  Shows the board at the top left, then 
three columns:


- Operations: prez reports solid line to board and prez directs VP, 
Infra to keep machines going


- Strategy: various other officers solid line report to the board directly

- Projects: two chunks of things:
-- Meta projects: attic, conferences, community, etc.
-- Code projects: example listing httpd, Hadoop, Lucene, etc.

Projects all *dotted* line report to the board for oversight.  Emphasize 
how the ASF is about supporting projects.




Update the homepage to provide a quick table of contents in terms of 
concepts (additionally to the way we provide contents for "who are you?" 
of newcomers/committers/etc.)



- Intro paragraphs
- How can we help?  If you're new/committer/contributor/etc
- What do you want to learn? See governance, technical how-tos, etc.
- About the comdev project
- How to ask questions! (explicitly explain mailing lists to draw people 
towards them)



- Shane

Re: Website improvement ideas

[Shane Curcuru]

On 2011-12-06 4:52 PM, Brett Porter wrote:

Sounds like good ideas.

I understand your concerns earlier in the thread, however I still
think /governance belongs on www.a.o. I don't want to see
community.a.o generating a lot of new content outside of its scope of
enabling new contributors and "signposting" - there's enough problems
with docs being split between incubator and www.a.o/dev as it is :)

- Brett


ACK.  Anyone else want to +1 making this be either www.a.o/governance or 
www.a.o/foundation/governance?


I just mentally found it easier to put stuff on community.a.o to start 
with, but I see your point.


- Shane



On 07/12/2011, at 3:19 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:


[PROPOSAL] I plan to create community.a.o/governance with:

/index: brief overview for new readers, and link to the subpages.  I was 
thinking of having two lists linked to the subpages: one by organizational 
hierarchy (the board is on top), one by importance (the PMCs are on top).

/board
/membership  (writing now)
/pmcs
/committers (tbd)
/contributors (tbd)
/users (tbd, wondering if we should write this one to show that users don't 
directly participate in governance, other than that most healthy projects will 
pay attention to user needs)

/orgchart - we really need one.  Shows the board at the top left, then three 
columns:

- Operations: prez reports solid line to board and prez directs VP, Infra to 
keep machines going

- Strategy: various other officers solid line report to the board directly

- Projects: two chunks of things:
-- Meta projects: attic, conferences, community, etc.
-- Code projects: example listing httpd, Hadoop, Lucene, etc.

Projects all *dotted* line report to the board for oversight.  Emphasize how 
the ASF is about supporting projects.



Update the homepage to provide a quick table of contents in terms of concepts 
(additionally to the way we provide contents for "who are you?" of 
newcomers/committers/etc.)


- Intro paragraphs
- How can we help?  If you're new/committer/contributor/etc
- What do you want to learn? See governance, technical how-tos, etc.
- About the comdev project
- How to ask questions! (explicitly explain mailing lists to draw people 
towards them)


- Shane





--
Brett Porter
br...@apache.org
http://brettporter.wordpress.com/

Re: Website improvement ideas

[Shane Curcuru]

Hey, what do people think about moving the bulk of the content (lightly 
edited) from this wiki page to be the index/overview of the /governance 
topic?  (then having the wiki page just point to the a.o stuff, since 
it's so much simpler editing the website now with the CMS, thanks joes!)


  http://wiki.apache.org/general/FoundationGovernance

I forgot I had pulled that together a couple of years ago.  It's much 
drier, but it covers the factual points in moderate detail.  I still 
think the essays are important to help explain the whys of how we do 
things to some degree.


- Shane

Re: Apache Extras Question

[Shane Curcuru]

Neat, I took a mental vacation on this issue, and it's mostly done when 
I come back to the thread!


Trademarks and brand are primarily about the primary name of a product, 
not classnames or package names.  So unless your project is called 
org.apache.SuperThing on the home page, the package name is of much less 
importance in the trandmark world than what you do say on your 
homepage/download page - presumably "Get Apache SuperThing!".


Apache Extras projects must not use the name "Apache" in their branding; 
i.e. to describe their projects or products.  Similarly, they must not 
use the same name as an Apache project or product, without having a very 
clear separation, a'la the Powered By guidelines.


Apache Extras projects probably should be able to use the 
org.apacheextras.* package name; I think along with the rest of the 
Apache Extras site guidelines, that keeps a sufficient "distance" with 
their projects.


Apache Extras projects must not create their own org.apache.* package 
names for their own projects.  While this is not the same level of 
importance as the overall Extras SuperStuff primary brand name, it is 
still inappropriate for Apache Extras projects to create new 
org.apache.SuperStuff packages.


Apache Extras probably can have some *existing* org.apache.SuperThing 
packages in their source tree, *if* they come from the actual Apache 
SuperThing project itself.


The point here is that Extras projects should not create new 
org.apache.* packages: that would imply their new SuperStuff is an 
official Apache bit of code (which it isn't).  But if they happen to 
want to fork some of our org.apache.SuperThing code, and incorporate it 
into their SuperStuff product, that's generally OK.


Does that all make sense?

- Shane

Sorry for the delay, but I was really burnt out on policy issue thinking 
over the holidays.


On 2012-01-02 10:14 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) wrote:

Hey Nóirín et al.,

Happy New Year! I've went ahead and updated my patch
on COMDEV-65 [1] with information on the org.apacheextras
namespace and with the suggestion to get further information
from the responsible Project Management Committees and
from ComDev PMC in general. I also changed Project Committees
to Project Management Committees per Nóirín's advice.

I also went ahead and (a) started a VOTE thread with the OODT
PMC on the naming of oodt-pushpull-plugins at Apache Extras [2];
and (b) updated the package names on [2] to match org.apacheextras.

With that, I'm considering this matter closed.

Thanks for the advice everyone and best wishes in the New Year.

Cheers,
Chris

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COMDEV-65
[2] http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/p/oodt-pushpull-plugins/

On Dec 30, 2011, at 12:21 AM, Nóirín Plunkett wrote:


Chris,

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
  wrote:

Hey Guys,

I was talking with Greg, and I think I'm OK with org.apacheextras as
the namespace.


Thanks for your patience :-) I wasn't trying to discount your
proposals, and I appreciate that you'd created a patch--I was just
trying to understand the reasons you disliked the org.apacheextras.*
proposal.

If your conversation with Greg is easy to summarize, it might be worth
documenting why this proposal ended up being ok for you--but if you
just want to get back to writing code, that's fine too :-)


It sounds like Noirin thought that was cool and so did Mark S.
Are folks here on ComDev cool with that namespace for our Extras
projects? If so, I'll update my COMDEV-65 patch with docs stating that
and document it and move forward.


Tiny nit on the patch: we have project management committees, not
project committees :-) (Hey, at least I read it, right? :-))


I'm also of the mindset that the PMC should be the ones saying
if they are OK with my oodt-pushpull-plugins Extras name and
to me it should be fine if the PMC is OK with that. I can update
the FAQ/guidelines to state that.


My very vague recollection from when Apache Extras was booting up was
that we didn't want "official PMC-sanctioned projects" to have special
status there. I'd give this one a day or two to collect more input
before updating anything.

Noirin



++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov
WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++

Re: project supervision

[Shane Curcuru]

On 2012-02-29 8:14 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
...

This leads me to wonder about supervision in the Foundation. PMC
members are responsible for supervision of their project. However, I
submit that there are some limitations to this. The PMC is the
community. If the community get peculiar, the PMC is as likely as not
to be part and parcel of the overall drift. Pick your metaphor: the
boiled frog, the Stockholm Syndrome, whatever.

The board is responsible for supervising the projects, but I felt that
it would be kinder and more productive to try to start a conversation
here about if or how the Foundation could improve project supervision
and see if it resulted in a coherent proposal to the board, rather
than start another noisy thread on the board list.

...

Excellent question - although also a rather broad question. 
Fundamentally, isn't one way to look at it: What are the rules, 
guidelines, and best practices of running an Apache project?


I've always thought it was a good idea to better document - meaning both 
more documentation, as well as better written documentation - the rules 
and best practices for how Apache projects are expected to work.  But 
for me, a key barrier is the inevitable discussion - then argument - 
then flamewar - that often appears when either you: 1) attempt to 
document something that others think is Wrong, or 2) attempt to write 
down a rule or even guideline or even suggestion that others think is 
Telling People What To Do.


I've learned in the past couple of years that we do need to be careful 
in laying out any rules - i.e. requirements - for Apache projects.  We 
really do need to give the maximum freedom to our project communities 
that still allows for sufficient oversight and functioning of all our 
project communities.  That means being careful to limit the specific 
rules we require of our projects.


That said, I think there are a LOT of best practices (guidelines, even 
SHOULDs along with the MAYs) that we could do a far, far better job of 
documenting and explaining to our projects, our communities, and the 
world.  But even here I sometimes find it hard when other participants 
think I'm Wrong, and their way is the only One True Way.


But even for every example of someone complaining, there are a handful 
of examples of other projects who you suddenly realize are trying to 
solve the exact same problem you're trying to explain the best practices 
for.  There are a lot of community members who want to learn from all of 
our experiences with long-lived projects, and plenty of examples of 
different Apache projects reinventing the same suggested wheels over and 
over again.


In any case, this is a great place to discuss.  And where should we best 
document findings?


http://www.apache.org/dev/
and
http://community.apache.org/committers/index.html

- Shane

Any problems with new /foundation/governance?

[Shane Curcuru]

I've finally buckled down and translated my earlier essays on governance 
to mdtext.


Please correct if there are any errors before we link to these pages 
from elsewhere!


  http://www.apache.org/foundation/governance/

Next idea: an org chart.  Sadly, I lack graphics-fu, so not sure how 
good my AOO - Draw will look.


- Shane

P.S. The subpages members|board|pmcs should appear soon - they're 
checked in, but haven't come through the CMS process quite yet...

Re: Website update ideas

[Shane Curcuru]

ACK and ACK.  And depending on the weather this weekend I may add the 
normal headers (Title: / Notice:) found on a.o site pages to all the 
community site pages as well for consistency.


Indeed, short and to the point, but explanatory, and serving as an 
intelligent signpost to the many other canonical sources of information 
about ASF policies and Apache projects.


- Shane

On 2012-05-18 8:46 AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:

On 05/18/2012 02:17 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:

(moved to dev@community.apache.org)

On 18 May 2012 02:02, Shane Curcuru  wrote:

Is there anyone tied to the style or layout here that I might offend? 8-)

I find it easy enough to navigate, and the colors and so on are nice,
but my overall feeling is that it's too...spacious, for lack of a better
word. Style-wise, you could perhaps use a slightly smaller font for the
headings, as they seem to be way off compared to the actual text.
Perhaps the links could be incorporated into the headings (or the
headings could become bullet points), so it becomes even more obvious
that this and that information is something you should now choose between.

- Broader and more explanatory/welcoming intro section

I actually like how it's straight and to the point. The introduction
should say something about "what is this page for, and why should I be
looking at it", but not a whole lot more. If it becomes too long, then
people will more likely tend to simply ignore the introduction.

- Better and more frequent mention of this mailing list and other mailing
lists.  We need to make it really easy to draw people into the appropriate
list(s) so they can start the conversation.

I completely agree. People need to be aware of the mailing list AND the
community site the minute they decide to contribute to Apache, as
there's quite a lot of useful information to be found there. On a
different note, there's a small error on
http://community.apache.org/mentorprogrammeapplication.html wherein the
mailing list address is written as
"mailto:dev-subscr...@community.apache.org.html"; (the html should
probably be removed ;) ).

And last but perhaps not least, the copyright notice should be updated
to display 2012 instead of 2011 :)

With regards,
Daniel.

Re: Website update ideas

[Shane Curcuru]

Totally agreed - I was just saying that the History section would 
include links to existing resources - plus perhaps a brief sentence 
explaining what those things actually meant (so that newcomers can 
decide if they're interested in them!).


Agreed on duplication just within the /dev and other official areas in 
some cases too - but don't have the mental energy quite yet to tackle those.


- Shane

P.S. Huh.  Maybe the standard a.o footer "Foundation" section should 
have a "Newcomers" link or the like that points to community.a.o. 
Otherwise, as someone asked, how do people even find this site?


P.P.S. Was it a conscious decision to use a different page template than 
a.o, or just an oversight?  Pondering if we should consider adding the 
a.o footer or not, etc., or just keep it super simple.


On 2012-05-21 3:47 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

On 18 May 2012 02:02, Shane Curcuru  wrote:

...

- Beef up History section to include public records (all board reports, the
original resolution), plus links to the /foundation/governance and the
/history pages on the a.o site...


We have IMO way too much duplication of this basic info around our
sites, so in general it's probably better to just link to information
that's already available elsewhere.

-Bertrand

Re: Streamlining new committers info: projects.a.o

[Shane Curcuru]

Yes, the grand plan for projects.a.o is to have a single place that 
provides an overview of all Apache software products (as well as Apache 
projects too).  This is an idea that needs some people to help drive it 
to both ensure it's updated, as well as to provide a better UI for users.


Imagine having the front pages and categories/search of ohloh, 
sourceforge, and Google Code rolled together, but just displaying Apache 
projects.  It'd be a huge win to let the public know what we build.



David R. and others (a while back) created the projects.a.o code (that 
uses a mess of different technologies, including perl and XSLT on a cron 
job, which means it's hard to decipher how it works 8-() that actually 
scans the DOAPs and generates the website, with various indices.  This 
is my main goal - to improve the usability of this site, both with a 
nicer UI (with introductions explaining what it is to average users) as 
well as with better data (for example, with an improved taxonomy as 
suggested below).


Now, actually improving the taxonomy is a two step process, that I'd 
love to see energetic volunteers working on:


- Figuring out an XML-compliant way to improve the taxonomy(ies) 
available in the DOAPs.  We need a 'good enough' solution, not a perfect 
one.


- Working with projects (or simply doing it ourselves and submitting 
patches to projects) to actually update all the DOAPs with these 
improved taxonomies.  We can't rely on all projects being diligent about 
updating their DOAPs - experience has shown, some projects just never 
get around to it.



Using DOAP files also means we can provide a simple API (or set of 
URLs/REST service/whatever) for external entities to come crawl 
themselves, if they want to provide their own mapping of Apache 
software.  That's one of the reasons that providing a DOAP file is a 
branding requirement for all Apache projects.


* A nice-to-have would be a simple set of public instructions for people 
to figure out how to scan our set of DOAPs themselves.



Sounds like it was a great ApacheCon, and hoping to get to know some of 
you working on projects.a.o!  8-)


- Shane, sadly based in the US without funding to travel these days

On 11/10/2012 7:44 AM, Tammo van Lessen wrote:

Hi,

On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Gavin McDonald wrote:


-Original Message-
From: Igor Galić [mailto:i.ga...@brainsware.org]
Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012 3:32 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Cc: ASF Site-Dev
Subject: Re: Streamlining new committers info


Another idea that just came up in a BoF was to create more useful info on
the *main* page about what the projects do and how to get the one you
need: i.e.: I'm looking for a Database - it should be a Key-Value store,

in Java.

And you're down to 2 projects: DB, Cassandra


Sounds like what's on projects.apache.org [1] already.

Gav...

[1] - http://projects.apache.org/indexes/category.html



I like the idea to improve this aspect on the main page as well as I also
have difficulties to understand which projects does what and how it
compares to others (especially in the hadoop incubator ecosystem). I think
DOAP (and semwebtech) is well suited to do this job, but what is IMHO
missing right now is a taxonomy of categories. Currently, categories are
flat and used as tags. By using something like SKOS, we could define a
tree-like vocabulary of our projects' categories, e.g. a "Key-Value store"
is a narrower term for "Database". See [1] to get an idea of such a
taxonomy. If the doap files would then reference the most narrow category,
Igors example could be answered easily datawise. UI-wise, the data could be
materialized and then visualized, either graphically or with something like
Exibit [2], see [3] for a demo. Just an idea, I'm happy to help if time
permits.

Best,
   Tammo

[1] http://try.iqvoc.net/en/hierarchical_concepts.html
[2] http://simile-widgets.org/exhibit3/
[3] http://databench.zepheira.com/demos/history/decide.html

GSoC 2013: non-code projects on website, branding?

[Shane Curcuru]

Quick sanity check: would it be worthwhile to explore having a non-code 
project?  We often decry the lack of understandable or organized 
technical documentation, especially on the apache.org site.  Similarly, 
we could do a much better job simply clearly describing things for 
branding, making fundraising look a little prettier, having an easier to 
navigate events area, etc.


Should I try to find enough discrete tasks  here to submit a 
documentation-type GSoC idea?  Or is that not likely to find any 
students / going to be too much work to pull together?


I love the idea of offering a non-heavy-code project, and I will have a 
little spare time over the summer (when I'm taking a 12 week leave of 
absence from $dayjob).


Ideas? Anyone want to help?

- Shane

Re: svn commit: r1460702 [1/5] - in /comdev/site/trunk: content/ content/css/ content/img/ content/js/ lib/ templates/

[Shane Curcuru]

On 3/28/2013 11:59 AM, Ulrich Stärk wrote:

After > 72 hours without any comments I assume lazy consensus and will publish 
the site now.

Cheers,

Uli


OH NO DEAR GODS IT'S SO BIG!  PLEASE, SOMEONE VOLUNTEER TO HELP WITH 
TWEAKING THE CSS.


Thanks Uli, awesome!

Things I noticed:

- The navbar degrades a bit when narrowing your browser window (it clips 
"The Apache Software Foundation" when doubling).


- The homepage's welcome callout section has a ton of margin inside it.

- I really wish I had the C-fu to add a "Description" bullet point to 
the header from the mod_mbox module, so the mailing list link actually, 
y'know, had some human-readable text that explained what the heck the 
email address(es) were.


- Shane

Re: Process, policy and best practice

[Shane Curcuru]

On 4/1/2013 2:19 PM, Luciano Resende wrote:

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:

On 1 Apr 2013 18:28, "Luciano Resende"  wrote:

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 2:58 AM, Ross Gardler 
...

Since then the IPMC has been discussing the idea of handing off the
documentation parts of their responsibilities to ComDev. This is just a
discussion item and is in no way a decision at this point.

The idea, as I understand it, is not to pass over any of the podling
oversight responsibilities, only the documentation of ASF policies,
processes and best practice.

...

If the budget is not a pre-requisite, how do envision a small PMC like
ComDev, taking responsibility of a big task, that the current owner and a
much larger PMC has not been able to handle ?


Luciano has an excellent point in that there's not much to discuss until 
ComDev sees some clarity on what is being asked.


I do however think this could be an excellent idea, precisely in part 
because ComDev is smaller and more focused.  I could imagine ComDev 
changing it's scope to effectively serve as an information shepherd on 
all of the apache.org/* content focused on our technical communities. 
I.e. not only serving as owners of community.a.o, where we have friendly 
overviews and pointers to other info, but also editorial owners of 
things like /dev.  This doesn't mean setting policy for technical 
matters or svn instructions - this more would mean (I'm imagining) 
taking responsibility for making the technical information there more 
understandable and better organized.


The issue with the IPMC and the Incubator is multi-fold:

- Operations.  Overseeing podlings and voting in new ones, graduating 
ones, etc.  This is *not* anything to do with ComDev.


- Policy setting.  This is the IPMC (or other relevant ASF officers) 
setting official minimum required policy for the incubation process. 
This is *not* anything to do with ComDev.


- Explaining to the world what the Incubation policies are and guiding 
newcomers through how IPMC Operations work.  This one bit is something 
that ComDev *might* be able to help with, if I'm seeing what Ross is 
getting at.


Personally, I find the incubator site maddening in terms of explaining 
to a normal human what the heck to do.  There's a chance that if ComDev 
wanted to help, people here could make significant improvements merely 
by better explaining the incubator - without having to make policy or 
podling decisions.


That in particular is something that could make use of a hired technical 
writer, if separately we thought that spending was warranted.


Make sense?

- Shane

Re: Process, policy and best practice

[Shane Curcuru]

On 4/1/2013 6:28 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:

As I see it, the primary attraction here is that we could end up with
*one* coherent body of documentation on policies and procedures,
available to project new and old.


Oh, drat.  I was really starting to get excited about this project - 
having one set of documentation that explains to normal humans how we 
work would be amazingly cool!


Then I realized what the date is, and now I know that this must really 
be some complex April Fool's hoax.


- Shane

Re: Website frontpage style

[Shane Curcuru]

Make it so!

Agreed with Suresh and Rich: header is too big, and can just be "Apache 
Community Development".  Then explain in the text about "Apache 
Community Development Project (ComDev) does cool stuff..."


I agree that a text block in the lower half titled "The Apache Way" 
would be a key addition, with a brief explanation and links to other sites.


- Shane

On 4/23/2013 6:45 AM, Suresh Marru wrote:

Hi Luciano,

This is very nice, the information is nicely organized. Few suggestions:

* I think the "Welcome to the Community Development (ComDev)!" is too big and 
distracting. How about changing it to h2?
* The information about ComDev PMC is very informative, but I am not sure if 
the third column needs highlighting. Can the banner text include a 4th 
paragraph with links and use the third column for other information?
* Can the third column be used to define and describe "Apache Way"?

Great modifications over all,
Suresh

On Apr 23, 2013, at 1:42 AM, Luciano Resende  wrote:


I was wondering if we could have a better format for the frontpage of the
ComDev website, and worked on a quick prototype available in [1] and would
appreciate any feedback on it.

Thoughts

[1] http://people.apache.org/~lresende/community/

--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/

Re: DRAFT: Board meeting reminder

[Shane Curcuru]

Sweet. Commented. Thurs night (eastern) is perfect.

- Shane


On 6/11/2013 2:17 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:

As promised, I'm planning to send a reminder to members@ regarding the
upcoming board meeting. I thought I'd run the draft past this list to
ensure that 1) it's accurate and 2) that there's nothing that anyone
else feels we should add to this, in the interests of avoiding 12
follow-ups to clarify, correct, amend, etc.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hHSexhbgSgwg4dow8XgXZFidd4F-FoQEJ5xySSDxYhg/edit?usp=sharing


Please make comments either directly on the document, or in reply to
this message. I'd like to send the reminder by Friday, unless folks
think that Monday makes more sense.

Thanks!

Setup & development software for Macs?

[Shane Curcuru]

I just switched to a Mac for much of my stuff, and am wondering how 
other committers organize their Macs and what kind of software they use.


In particular, what's the best GUI-ish SVN clients?

Your favorite basic text editors?  I don't need a big IDE, just simple 
markdown/python/ruby, and occasional web page editing.


Also, a silly question, I know, but if I have my work on SSD, is there 
any reason that I should *not* configure FileVault?  It seems like a no 
brainer for any laptop.  Similarly, any reason to turn off the built-in 
Firewall?


Related, what are decent options for parental control software for macs 
& iPads?  It's obvious that we will need some way to restrict and 
monitor what our daughter does on the computer...


Thanks in advance!

- Shane

Re: How can we support a faster release cadence?

[Shane Curcuru]

On 2/9/14 2:03 PM, Doug Cutting wrote:

On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Henri Yandell  wrote:

* Go and fork the project code on GitHub.
* Put your changes in there and PR them up into the Apache codebase.
* If others want to, they can PR the code to you, and then you can PR the
code up to the codebase (or the group of you could work as a community
preparing PRs).
* The one pushing into the Apache codebase needs to be confident that the
code is covered by CLAs.
* You can release in GitHub whenever you want.
* The Apache release happens less often and follows the rules.


Keep in mind that if this is in any way a PMC activity then it is part
of Apache trying to circumvent the rest of Apache, i.e., not advised.
A distinct legal entity may indeed fork, re-brand, alter and release
any Apache project using policies it prefers, but this must be clearly
separate from any Apache project.  A subset of a PMC acting as
individuals would be murky territory if they share no common legal
entity outside Apache.

Doug


The key point is: who is the "we" that the world perceives doing this? 
This whole discussion really underscores the importance of trademarks 
and the Apache brand.


We're quite happy for anyone to take our code and ship it just about 
however they like.  But they can't call it an Apache project: only a PMC 
here at Apache can do that.  While the original reason for most ASF 
release, branding, legal, etc. policies is to ensure our legal safety, 
the very real effect of these policies and their consistent application 
in PMCs is that our projects following these policies are *seen by the 
rest of the world* as being "Apache projects".


- Shane

Re: [REPORT] Apache River

[Shane Curcuru]

(To += dev@community; board@ -> bcc)

Thanks for the River report and the question for the board.  The Apache 
Community Development PMC is the best place to start asking for 
assistance - while the primary focus is helping newcomers to projects, 
it's also a place where we have many Apache mentors and Members available.


  http://community.apache.org/

There certainly seems to be healthy discussion on the dev@ list 
recently.  Is the Apache River community concerned about finding new 
contributors, or about better organizing work within the project?


- Shane

Tip: Sometimes, MarkMail is easier to scan list archives:
  http://community.markmail.org/search/?q=
  http://river.markmail.org/search/?q=

On 5/14/14 2:30 PM, Greg Trasuk wrote:


Apache River is a Java-based Service Oriented Architecture, implementing
the Jini Specification and Jini Technology Starter Kit originally
donated by Sun Microsystems.

ISSUES FOR THE BOARD

There are no board-level issues at this time

RELEASES

Apache River 2.2.2 was released on November 18, 2013
Apache River 2.2.1 was released on May 2, 2013.

COMMUNITY

No new committers have been added since Nov of 2011.

There has been some discussion of the project’s health on the dev@ and users@ 
mailing lists, which has led to an effort to update the project’s build 
architecture, in hopes of removing at least one barrier to participation.  The 
PMC is curious if there are any Apache resources to aid in community building.

Greg Trasuk has requested that the community nominate a new PMC Chair.  
Discussions on a replacement Chair are under way.  The board should expect a 
resolution to change the Chair at the next board meeting.

ACTIVITY

Mailing lists and development have been reasonably active in the past few
months.  4 messages on users@ from Mar-Apr, and over 150 messages on
dev@.

Six issues have been reported on Jira and four of those have been resolved.

Re: The ASF and Apache OFBiz (was: Re: ASF Status website and project health reporting)

[Shane Curcuru]

The best place to start this discussion in terms of needs is over on the
dev@community mailing list - no need to include folks individually
unless they ask.

There are several different issues to work on:

- Need and design: what does the ASF or some projects actually need, and
how could we better present a design that would be easier to use and
maintain?  Note also that projects use a wide variety of site generation
and maintenance tools, and to get better adoption any new tool needs to
fit easily into existing Forrest, Maven, or other tools that various
projects use (i.e., adoption on a per-project level, like for
project.a.o/mailinglist pages, would be up to each project)

- Work: Who is actually going to provide the code, take feedback from
various parties, and help maintain any new solution?  This is where
having an iterative design is important, because many of these efforts
start with great new volunteers, but never get finished or fully
deployed when the rest of the world interferes with people's dayjobs.

- Code: Any apache.org hosted solution needs to be maintained by the
infra team.  In particular, infra is moving to centralize all the
per-person data into our custom LDAP scheme, which is being expanded to
include PMC membership and plenty of other data.  Some info is on the blog:

  https://blogs.apache.org/infra/tags/ldap
  https://id.apache.org/

There's been a lot of updates to how the core LDAP is being used and is
exposed on http or https endpoints in the past year, so it would be
useful to get a better overview of what the core people/projects data is
available already.

- Shane

On 10/13/14 9:19 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> Hi Gabriella,
> 
> I have been pondering a bit on how Apache OFBiz could support The ASF as
> the unified front end regarding:
> 
>   * subscribing to and unsubscribing from mailing lists of projects and
> offices
>   * profiling the Projects, Corporate Officers, ASF Members, Vice
> Presidents, PMC Members, Committers, Contributors and Offices
>   * the invitation processes regarding new ASF Members, PMC Members and
> Committers
>   * the 'Change of Guard' process regarding Board Members, Office and
> Project VPs
> 
> Based on some demo data I have mocked up how this could look like and
> have created a Powerpoint to show and explain this a bit.
> In the attached PDF you can get a feel of some screenshots. In the notes
> of each slide you'll find a short description. 
> 
> If you would like to investigate and/or pursue the possibilities
> further, feel free to contact me to exchange ideas, viewpoints, etc. If
> you have trouble accessing the attached file please send me a note.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com 
> 
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Gabriela Gibson
> mailto:gabriela.gib...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Pierre Smits
> mailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > Recently we exchanged some thoughts (twitter and otherwise) regarding 
> the
> > status of Apache top level projects and about how the reporting by the 
> ASF
> > to the projects and the wider communities could be improved.
> >
> > Currently the status pages at http://status.apache.org regarding project
> > health (commit activity and mailing lists) don't allow drill down into
> > individual projects. Is it achievable to get this kind of functionality?
> >
> > Can we (as the ASF) also provide insights in number of people joining 
> and
> > leaving the mailing lists of the projects and show what the trending 
> topics
> > over the periods?
> > But also reporting on average depth and width of mailing list threads?
> >
> > I do believe that these kind of insights will help monitoring project
> > health and investigate where projects can improve regarding community
> > building.
> >
> >
> > I'm not so sure that mailing list subscription counts are very
> representative -- I recently unsubscribed from almost every forum I had
> ever joined because classification by labelling in gmail is a hit
> and miss,
> and the deluge of mails that were incorrectly sorted was too much.
> 
> Instead, I use the web interfaces for those forums now.
> 
> So, I would like to see the mailing list web interface be improved:
> 
> Better thread navigation; and the ability to 'one-click
> (un)subscribe' to a
> given thread or a watch for keywords in the subject(subject to being
> logged
> in).  Being able to choose a digest or continuous format on a per-case
> basis would also be nice.
> 
> If that could be done, collected statistics about participation would be
> far more reliable and informative.
> 
> G
> --
> Visi

Re: OpenOffice folks: ApacheCon template?

[Shane Curcuru]

On 11/10/14 6:27 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 10/11/2014 Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
>> On 24.10.2014 21:49, Rich Bowen wrote:
>> Just received an e-mail pointing to the ApacheCon EU template at
>> http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/apachecon-europe/program/speaker-guide
>> which is a
>> breathtaking 18 (eighteen) MB file!
> 
> CCing the dev@community list again to say that Nick Burch provided a
> nicer (and smaller) template at
> http://people.apache.org/~nick/NickTemplateACEU14.odp
> 
> (Nick, thank you and you can upload it to
> http://templates.openoffice.org/ too!)
> 
> Regards,
>   Andrea.

Nice!  Is there a pointer to an easy and complete description of how to
swap out the 18MB masters/background for Nick's improved version?  I'm
still lost when it comes to bulk formatting changes in Impress.

- Shane

Re: A maturity model for Apache projects

[Shane Curcuru]

Apologies for coming in late, my dev@ mail wasn't getting read, oops!

Have people considered:

* What is the definition of "Open Source"?  Shouldn't we either define
this in detail, or explicitly reference the well-known OSI definition?

* Code

Adding a point noting that the project produces software that does some
useful function on it's own?  I.e. that the software product produced is
useful to some users as-is, without requiring any other software, in
particular a single vendor's software?

I.e a mature Apache project wouldn't produce some blank framework that
doesn't actually run or produce output without some vendors own plugin
to make it work. 

* LC40 s/bound by/agree to and are bound by/ to emphasize this point?

* QU40 - this is a great point, and helped me understand the difference
between this model and other requirements/docs.  I.e. a "mature Apache
project" will do this, but newer TLPs or Incubator podlings or pTLPs may
well not do this - which is fine, as long as it's clear to users.

* CS10 - am I the only one who finds the wording here (and in CO60) a
little confusing?  Or rather: should we publish this document as
explicitly applies to Apache projects (i.e. clarify where we mean
committers/PMC members in terms of specific roles) or should we keep it
more generic (and call them contributors, etc.)  I.e. for some projects,
committers do have decision powers over code changes within the project
- but not on personnel changes (which is only the PMC).

* CS40 should be updated to directly refer to the Voting rules.

* CS50 should be updated to (somehow, I'm not a wordsmith today) to
ensure the community has time to respond to synopses of decisions made
off-list before irrevocable changes are made.  I.e. if you have a big
meetup and decide to do X, post the notes and decision on the list - and
then wait 72 hours to allow new feedback from the list to shape how X
gets finished.

* IN20 should this be updated to note something like "and decisions made
are made for the good of the project as a whole, and not outside
corporations or employers"?

This is tricky to word correctly, because many employees may have to
fundamentally act in their employer's interests in financial or other
legal contexts.  But some sort of hint or emphasis on making decisions
for the good of the project as a whole and all of it's users is an
important point to make somehow.

Thanks,
- Shane

 

Re: A maturity model for Apache projects

[Shane Curcuru]

On 1/8/15 6:53 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> But that then provides the ability to create a larger eco-system of
> binary providers.

I know I'm late to the party, but are we advocating that only having
binaries provided by third parties is a good thing, or a bad thing?

We provide software for the public good.  Much of the software we
provide happens to be fairly technical, but even so that does not mean
that most of our actual users are compiling and building everything
themselves.  I'd even bet that the majority of our individual direct
users actually grab binary or jar releases rather than original sources
for building.

I suppose CD30 covers this in the basic case: build tools - to produce
the entire project from the sources - should be widely available.  But I
definitely think that's important to consider, to make our software
truly useful for users.

- Shane
> 
>> On Jan 6, 2015, at 3:45 PM, Nicolas Lalevée
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I would add something about the build of the sources. Because
>> having sources without having a repeatable build or having no clue
>> about how to build it, it makes the sources quite useless.
>> 
>> I had some troubles recently with a project. Its build depends on a
>> resource which is not available anymore. And I find it quite
>> shameful since it was a project about a build system.
>> 
>> Nicolas
>> 
>>> On 2015-01-06 18:28, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Creating such a model has been on my todo list for ages, and in
 a related discussion on board@ people seem to agree that having
 this can be useful.
 
 So let's start - here's my rough initial list of items:
 
 Code: open, discoverable, fully public history, documented
 provenance Quality: security, backwards compatibility, etc 
 Contributions: welcome from anyone based on technical quality 
 License: Apache License, dependencies must not put additional
 restrictions Community: inclusive, meritocratic, no dictators,
 clear documented path to entry Discussions and decisions:
 asynchronous, in a single central place, archived Decision
 making: consensus, votes if needed, technical vetoes in the
 worst case Independence: from any corporate or organizational
 influence Releases: source code only, notices, long-lived
 release format
 
 Related efforts, inspiration:
 
 http://osswatch.jiscinvolve.org/wp/2014/12/11/open-or-fauxpen-use-the-oss-watch-openness-rating-tool-to-find-out/


 
http://rfc.zeromq.org/spec:16
 
 -Bertrand
>> 
> 

Re: A maturity model for Apache projects

[Shane Curcuru]

On 1/9/15 9:23 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
> 
> 
> On 01/07/2015 04:43 AM, Scott Wilson wrote:
>> I think we also need to discuss whether we expect projects to
>> undertake self-evaluation and reflection, or whether we'd have a
>> process of review involving peers, mentors, shepherds etc.
> 
> No, I absolutely don't want to create another stack of overhead, or Yet
> Another hoop to jump through, as you said.
> 
> I think "directed self-evaluation" is the way I'd want to go - one or
> two persons from ComDev, in conjunction with two or three persons from
> the PMC, doing an evaluation. I imagine this as a function of ComDev,
> not of the board. That is, it's a community/project strengthening
> exercise, not a Big Hammer.
> 
Indeed, this whole process is merely coming up with a well-thought out
document that we hope helps people who are interested in it.  As I see
this, it's not any explicit process burden for podlings or TLPs (or
pTLPs, if we ever have them).

The board and project reporting schedules, and the list of minimal
project requirements are what Apache projects do have to follow/do/be.

  https://www.apache.org/dev/project-requirements.html

As always, it will be good to put some concise yet clear explanations
and links between the different documents.

- Shane

Re: A maturity model for Apache projects

[Shane Curcuru]

On 1/20/15 9:02 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi Justin,
> 
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Justin Mclean  
> wrote:
>> ...Perhaps change CD10 to this?
>> The project produces royalty free Open Source software
> 
> "for distribution to the public at no charge" is straight from the
> from the ASF Bylaws at http://apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html so I'm
> not keen on changing that.
> 
> I have added a footnote to CD10 that explains this, and added
> http://opensource.org/osd to the list of links at the end of the page.
> 
> Does that work for you?
> 
> -Bertrand
> 

A longer explanation of this point, which I use frequently:

  https://www.apache.org/free/

Thanks Bertrand for keeping this fairly generic, while still being clear
that it is clearly the Apache model, not a completely general one.

- Shane

Re: [ApacheCon] Business track?

[Shane Curcuru]

On 2/17/15 1:07 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
> Shane, are you able to find time to pull together a business track
> either from what's been submitted, or from solicited talks?
> 

Can someone privately remind me of the URL to review talks (I can see my
own CFP submissions, but not the whole set) and the other
meta-spreadsheet of tracks and I can try.  Will be offline all of Friday
(and $dayjob has been a pain lately), so any help is appreciated.

- Shane

Re: ApacheCon Schedule

[Shane Curcuru]

Apologies if I'm too late to the party; life and snow have interfered a
lot lately.

Overall the schedule looks awesome!

My "How To Keep Your Apache Project's Independence" is really focused on
individual project participants and active PMC members, not business
types, so would fit better in the Community track if that's practical.

I don't know if it would make sense to swap with "From the Incubator to
TLP..." (which might be of interest to business types who want to bring
their company's projects to Apache) or Nick's Apache Way (which often
seems to be more important for business people to attend rather than
community types).

Note: I cannot speak first thing Monday morning.

- Shane

On 2/19/15 9:05 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
> For those not involved in the process so far, I appreciate your
> patience, and your suffering in the dark. Making the schedule public too
> early caused significant logistical problems last two times (people
> thinking they knew things that they didn't know, and making travel plans
> accordingly), and we want to avoid that nightmare this time around.
> 
> For those involved in the process so far:
> 
> It looks like we're done with the ApacheCon schedule. Sort of. We've got
> 7 tracks, three days, which I think is probably just the right volume.
> 
> Please look at the DRAFT schedule, and comment in this thread. I, for
> one, think we have a kickin' schedule.
> 
> Problems that I think still need solving:
> 
> * We have an empty spot in the community track. Given that community is
> what we *do*, it seems that we could come up with 6 community talks to
> schedule, and have a few fallbacks. If folks could look through the
> not-yet-accepted list with me and see what you can find, that would be
> awesome.
> 
> * We have 16 open slots. We don't need to fill all of them - we need to
> leave 6 or 7 slots open for vendor-sponsored talks (Don't worry, these
> will NOT be product pitches) which will show up over the coming weeks.
> (LF's problem, not ours.) But I think we can probably put together a few
> half-day tracks if we put our minds to it. We have an entire day/track
> on Wednesday, if someone still thinks that they can put together a
> complete track (6 talks).
> 
> * We need more wait-listed talks. We currently have 6 waitlisted talks,
> and I'm probably going to take several of those right now to fill in
> some empties.
> 
> * We have the problem that's not a problem, which is that we had 239
> submissions, and have only accepted 115 talks - less than half. So we'll
> get a LOT of "why wasn't my talk accepted" emails, and I never have very
> good answers to that, because the answer really is, this time, too much
> content, too little space. But the questions will come, and that's a
> very unsatisfying answer to people that have put time and effort into
> crafting talk abstracts.
> 
> 
> If you would like to help with any of these things, please get in touch
> with me. Or, just step up and claim it and do it.
> 
> Note that I will be flying for much of today, and at a conference
> Friday-Sunday, so if I'm not responsive, please ping Jan Iversen, who
> can also help you out with this - although apparently I can't make him
> Owner of the Google Doc, so actually sharing the doc with you will be
> delayed, unless you respond in the next 3 hours.
> 

Re: [VOTE] Replace projects.apache.org with projects-new.apache.org

[Shane Curcuru]

Question: is there any plan to redirect old URLs?

The old projects.a.o certainly is clunky, but there may well be a few
people who have linked to various parts of the site.

Similarly, are we still using DOAP files?  I could imagine that there
are others who were also referring to individual DOAPs or to the
projects.a.o/feeds content.

These may not be widely used features, but if we're nuking them we
should be explicit about that and provide some notice about them being gone.

- Shane

P.S. There's some perspective for you on the Releases tab... 5306
software product releases (and those are just ones that the scripts can
detect).

On 3/6/15 11:52 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
> I'd like for us to go ahead and replace projects.apache.org with
> projects-new.apache.org. It now has all the functionality that
> projects.a.o has, and much more, and there's no reason to have two sites
> up. If you object to moving forward with this, please say so.
> 
> [ ] +1, do it
> [ ] +0, whatevs
> [ ] -1, No (and say why, so we can address the problem)
> 
> --Rich
> 

Re: [VOTE] Replace projects.apache.org with projects-new.apache.org

[Shane Curcuru]

On 3/6/15 5:40 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> 
> 
> On 2015-03-06 23:39, Christopher wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Shane Curcuru 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Question: is there any plan to redirect old URLs?
>>>
>>> The old projects.a.o certainly is clunky, but there may well be a few
>>> people who have linked to various parts of the site.
>>>
>>> Similarly, are we still using DOAP files?  I could imagine that there
>>> are others who were also referring to individual DOAPs or to the
>>> projects.a.o/feeds content.
>>>
>>> These may not be widely used features, but if we're nuking them we
>>> should be explicit about that and provide some notice about them being
>>> gone.
>>>
>>>
>> +1; it'd be nice to know that we don't have to update them anymore, if
>> that's the case.
> You don't, you update everything through the site ( currently at
> https://projects-new.apache.org/edit ).

Ah, so this means DOAP files are essentially deprecated, correct?

Have we documented how PMCs are supposed to update their project's
details, and communicated to pmcs@ the expectation that they must now
keep this stuff updated instead of the DOAP files?

This is really cool stuff, but I want to make sure that our 160++
projects actually understand what's going on (and will take the
responsibility to keep their own info updated here), and that various
outsiders who come to the site to find our projects get the information
they need.

- Shane


> 
> With regards,
> Daniel.
> 

Adding private@ support to reporter.a.o?

[Shane Curcuru]

There are a number of useful statistics surfaced on reporter.a.o about
project mailing lists and such, however none of the statistics track
activity on PMC private@ lists.

I believe this would be very useful to have a larger sense of how active
different project private@ mailing lists are.  In particular, the ASF as
an organization often uses the pmcs@ alias - going to all private@ lists
- as a way to inform PMCs of important ASF activities and policies (like
recent branding recommendations and CMS changes).

How effective is using pmcs@ to communicate important information to
*every* project?  Do we have a sense if all projects are really
listening in a timely manner or not?  (I think a number of projects don't!)

I would love to see mailing list statistics over time for private@
lists, including subscribers, new posts, and especially new replies
somewhere that either PMC members/committers or Members can access.

Replies are important because that shows people are actually discussing
issues at all, or not.  I.e. in many cases if there's a major change or
question being asked of PMCs, you'd expect that the pmc would have a
brief "hey, how should we respond/does this affect us" thread on their
private@, and then go back to the original questioner.  If there are a
lot of private@ lists where there is typically no replies over time, I'd
be a bit concerned that the PMC may not be taking action (or at least
explicitly ACK'ing) important items in a timely manner.

Comments?  I'm figuring this is an INFRA ticket, which an infra team
member notes is probably not a lot of work.

- Shane

Re: Veto! Veto?

[Shane Curcuru]

On 3/20/15 9:04 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> If I understand the various documents/pages available regarding voting
> correctly, voting a new member in can't be vetoed. Likewise is it with
> respect to voting for board members. If I have missed a page somewhere,
> please point me to it and I stand corrected.

Board and new Member voting at the Foundation level are clearly
documented - note that these are specific procedures that are
*different* from best practices for PMC voting on new committers.

  https://wiki.apache.org/general/MemberVoting
  https://wiki.apache.org/general/BoardVoting

In particular since the Board voting process uses STV there are only
positive votes, no negative votes for candidates (obviously, you can
withhold voting from some candidates).

> 
> The following document https://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html
> states:

That also notes at the top:

"Each project has different approaches to managing new committers, this
page describes a common process found in many Apache projects"

It is important to have best practices for all projects, and for
projects to document their own specific ways to make decisions.  But the
bigger point is to work towards a consensus among the active
contributing PMC members and/or committers within a project.

In many cases, a key way to make this a smoother process is ensuring you
hold a [DISCUSS] thread about "hey, I'm thinking of nominating X for
committer" first.  IF there are objections during the discussion that
some people can clearly explain, you usually put things on hold for a
period to see if whatever is being objected too can be corrected.

- Shane

> 
> A positive result is achieved by Consensus Approval i.e. at least 3 +1
> votes and no vetoes.
> 
> Any veto must be accompanied by reasoning and be prepared to defend it.
> Other members can attempt to encourage them to change.
> 
> While this document talks about getting new committers in a project, it
> also seem to be applicable when it comes to getting new PMC members and
> even who chairs the PMC.
> 
> So how can it be that when it comes to projects, vetoes can be expressed
> and block innovation or growth?
> One of the reasons I heard when discussing this was that it establishes
> control or manageability of the projects member list.
> 
> Wouldn't a simple majority (more +1 than -1 votes) yield the same result?
> If someone would feel that non-acceptance of a new person would benefit the
> project, wouldn’t it be more proper/righteous  that he should put in the
> effort and get a majority of votes?
> 
> It is understandable why the ASF (and its projects) have the veto principle
> regarding code changes as it ensures that the(released) works of the
> project are of a higher quality than the previous work, and that the works
> don't change to something else than what is stated in the mission of the
> project (meaning that e.g. the primary work of the Apache HTTP project -
> httpd can't be converted into e.g. foo widget).
> When it comes to people (and organisations), vetoes have proven that it is
> a means to force consensus into a certain direction. It might have some
> valid grounds when only a few have the biggest gun and they want to keep
> others from getting the same gun (and thus rights/power), but in a
> environment (as the ASF is) that builds on collaboration it is seems
> overkill.
> 
> What do you think? Is, when it comes to people, the veto mechanism not out
> of place for an ASF project?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
> 

Re: Code of Conduct - links to why they are needed etc

[Shane Curcuru]

On 3/25/15 12:00 PM, Noah Slater wrote:
> Yep, thanks for the reply. I'm not sure how to handle the governance side
> of this. But I'm sure we can come to an agreement on this list soon.

Discussing here makes sense; it's public and there are plenty of helpful
voices that are likely to participate; plus this is a key thing we
should ensure that newcomers to our communities see.  This group should
definitely be able to get consensus on any updates and be able to
publish them - if board or President have issues, I'm sure they'll
weight in about the documentation if needed.

In terms of escalation and reporting, that's tricky, because we are both
a Delaware corporation and a volunteer-run community.

- For issues within one project, the best first place to escalate is
that PMC's private@ list, if the reporter is comfortable doing so.

- Otherwise, I'd say the private@community.a.o list would be an
effective place to report/escalate, because there are people here who
could help working within the community.

- Beyond that, we need board or President to agree on whatever further
"formal" contact address or escalation path we will support.  Barring
anything more specific, I'd start the recommendation being board@.

In terms of enforcement, there are plenty of different people
(especially Members) at the ASF who can help with enforcement on a
community scale, so any ways we can make it more obvious for how to
contact them/ask for help is good.

But in terms of true enforcement, that goes to the board.  Since PMCs
report to the board, it's up to the board to enforce any serious issues,
if it comes to that.  Specific issues with infra/press/brand, and
probably conferences (i.e. not issues within an Apache project) should
escalate to President@, because those officers report to the President.

- Shane

P.S. This is a good topic - reminds me of a question recently on
foundations list elsewhere asking what mediation/personnel issue
reporting policies that different Foundations have (or not have).

Re: Code of Conduct - links to why they are needed etc

[Shane Curcuru]

On 3/26/15 1:46 PM, Noah Slater wrote:
> Oh, thanks for the input Shane!
> 
> I don't want to make the punitive measures stuff too complex. It should be
> simple and easy to understand for both those who want protection from
> harassment and so on, and those who've been spoken to about adjusting their
> conduct.
> 
> A strikes system is one idea. So individuals get warnings for minor things,
> and are told to adjust.
> 
> Beyond that, we might consider several things:
> 
> - Temporary removal from a mailing list (or whether the behaviour is
> occurring)
> - Longer periods of removal or banning from the same

I would expect both of the above every PMC could/should do for
themselves.  I.e. the PMC and private@ should be the reporting path, and
the PMC can just do the above as they see the need.

Importantly, I think most people would look to PMCs to document their
own systems.  Having an ASF-wide "sample policy" would be good, but I'm
betting some PMCs would still use their own details

> - Removal from a PMC, or revocation of committer or member status

PMCs should be able to remove their own committers, although one would
hope that is rare.  Anything dealing with removing or otherwise
censuring PMC members or ASF Members would need to be done by the board.


> People should know that we are perfectly prepared to expel individuals from
> our community who do not work with us to keep it a safe and welcoming
> environment for everybody.

"Our community" also points to setting the expectation that the group
closest to the community should be enforcing these - hence, the PMCs
whenever possible should police their own projects.


> 
> Removing from PMC and revocation of committer status can be done by PMCs
> themselves, should they be the ones enforcing the CoC. If not that, a
> recommendation from the Community PMC to the board to take the appropriate
> action. And failing that, for the Board itself to step in and take such
> action.

Yup.

- Shane


> 
> 
> On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 at 18:20 Shane Curcuru  wrote:
> 
>> On 3/25/15 12:00 PM, Noah Slater wrote:
>>> Yep, thanks for the reply. I'm not sure how to handle the governance side
>>> of this. But I'm sure we can come to an agreement on this list soon.
>>
>> Discussing here makes sense; it's public and there are plenty of helpful
>> voices that are likely to participate; plus this is a key thing we
>> should ensure that newcomers to our communities see.  This group should
>> definitely be able to get consensus on any updates and be able to
>> publish them - if board or President have issues, I'm sure they'll
>> weight in about the documentation if needed.
>>
>> In terms of escalation and reporting, that's tricky, because we are both
>> a Delaware corporation and a volunteer-run community.
>>
>> - For issues within one project, the best first place to escalate is
>> that PMC's private@ list, if the reporter is comfortable doing so.
>>
>> - Otherwise, I'd say the private@community.a.o list would be an
>> effective place to report/escalate, because there are people here who
>> could help working within the community.
>>
>> - Beyond that, we need board or President to agree on whatever further
>> "formal" contact address or escalation path we will support.  Barring
>> anything more specific, I'd start the recommendation being board@.
>>
>> In terms of enforcement, there are plenty of different people
>> (especially Members) at the ASF who can help with enforcement on a
>> community scale, so any ways we can make it more obvious for how to
>> contact them/ask for help is good.
>>
>> But in terms of true enforcement, that goes to the board.  Since PMCs
>> report to the board, it's up to the board to enforce any serious issues,
>> if it comes to that.  Specific issues with infra/press/brand, and
>> probably conferences (i.e. not issues within an Apache project) should
>> escalate to President@, because those officers report to the President.
>>
>> - Shane
>>
>> P.S. This is a good topic - reminds me of a question recently on
>> foundations list elsewhere asking what mediation/personnel issue
>> reporting policies that different Foundations have (or not have).
>>
>>
> 

Re: ACNA Presentation Template

[Shane Curcuru]

Awesome!  Nice backgrounds, do we have a URL to credit the photographer?

And, not to sound ungrateful, but... how would we go about making the
background on the bullet list slides less contrasty / less present?

I.e. for the main content pages, the star in the middle of the dome and
some of the arches in the dome are too much contrast to clearly see the
bullet list text, especially if you use highlights or have text in the
middle of the page.

- Shane, he of zero graphics-fu

P.S. Rich, will you coordinate with the LF people to send a link out to
any accepted speakers?

On 3/23/15 12:38 PM, Nick Burch wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Mar 2015, Rich Bowen wrote:
>> On 03/22/2015 12:40 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>> Thanks Nick, those are great!
>>>
>>> I consider the problem solved.
>>
>> +1
> 
> OK then! Please all consider
> http://people.apache.org/~nick/ACNA15_Template_Nick.odp as ready for use
> by those who wish!
> 
> Nick

Re: Presentations about Apache Software Foundation

[Shane Curcuru]

On 4/2/15 4:15 PM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I was asked to make a small talk about ASF and my project (Apache ServiceMix) 
> during an open source conference in
> Poland. Could you recommend me some existing presentations (or other 
> resources) about ASF (especially with actual data
> like number of projects, number of committers,...)  which could help me to 
> construct some slides how ASF works?
> Especially I'd like to see some presentations where you talk about ASF, your 
> project and your experiences/story in
> community work.
> 
> Thanks for your support.
> 
> Regards
> Krzysztof  

The first place to look is past ApacheCon conference websites; almost
all of them have links to various speaker's slides hidden somewhere on
the websites, and some have videos as well.

Some overview presentations:

  https://community.apache.org/speakers/slides.html

Past couple of ApacheCon slide pages:

https://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/archive/2014/apachecon-europe
https://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/archive/2014/apachecon-north-america

For some cross-project statistics, see the new projects overview site:

  https://projects-new.apache.org/

- Shane

Re: Presentations about Apache Software Foundation

[Shane Curcuru]

On 4/3/15 11:01 AM, Krzysztof Sobkowiak wrote:
> My intention is to simply look how other more experienced people do this. But 
> after Ross's answer a new question was
> born in my head. What does exactly the Apache License mean for slides? How 
> can the Apache licensed slides be reused?
> 
> Regards
> Krzysztof

As Ross noted, it doesn't matter what kind of content it is, if it says
"Apache License 2.0" then it's available under that license, and the
terms of that license apply.

  https://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0

In a practical sense for any slides you get from one of these frequent
Apache speakers on the previous links, that means you're welcome to
re-use anything in those slides except for the trademarks (i.e. don't
somehow claim the title or main catchphrase from a previous slide deck
was your own creation - which is unlikely in any case) for creating your
own slides or other educational materials.

A best practice is certainly to license your content under the Apache
license or a permissive style CC license, and to provide some sort of
credit back if you re-use a bunch of content.

It would be interesting if ComDev wanted to writeup some details of best
practices for how to provide attribution and licensing metadata in
common slide creation software, especially Apache OpenOffice.  We do
have plenty of Apache-related presentations that many Apache committers
have re-used from each other back and forth.

For a legal perspective, you'd need to talk to your lawyer. 8-)

- Shane

Re: ACNA Presentation Template - Austin uses 4:3

[Shane Curcuru]

Reviewing the speaker welcome email from LF, they note that they want
final PDF slides in 4:3 ratio - but Nick's preso is 16:9.  Eek!

- Shane

Events at LinuxFoundation wrote:
> Session Speaker Slides & Equipment
> 
> Each room comes with an LCD projector, screen, lapel and handheld
> microphones.  Please bring your own laptop, pre-loaded with your
> presentation. If you have any additional needs for your session,
> please email Annie Leroux at aler...@linuxfoundation.org by Thursday,
> April 9.
> 
> Conference session speakers should arrive in their designated
> conference room at least 10 minutes before the session is scheduled
> to begin.
> 
> Please remember that presentation slides are due, in 4:3 format, on
> Thursday, April 9 and can be submitted (in .PDF format only) through
> the CFP manager by following these simple instructions:


On 3/23/15 12:38 PM, Nick Burch wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Mar 2015, Rich Bowen wrote:
>> On 03/22/2015 12:40 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>> Thanks Nick, those are great!
>>>
>>> I consider the problem solved.
>>
>> +1
> 
> OK then! Please all consider
> http://people.apache.org/~nick/ACNA15_Template_Nick.odp as ready for use
> by those who wish!
> 
> Nick

Help! Slide template fixup needed!

[Shane Curcuru]

So I migrated everything to Nick's pretty Austin template, and didn't
realize all the transitions were in there.  Is there any AOO Impress
export out there who's willing to fixup my slides tonight?  (I speak
right after lunch tomorrow).

All I need are simple template/text box fixes for all the normal slides
- most of the deck is just simple bullets with a few obvious section
heading slides in between.

- Ensure there are *no* transitions on any text slides. When a slide
appears, the text block should appear.

- Ensure the 2 title slides and each the section heading slides actually
have the text appear in slideshow mode - the slide looks fine except
when I'm presenting, and then the section headers have no text actually
appearing.

- Leave the two weird slides - with no background - alone.  You'll know
then if you look.

Deck:

https://people.apache.org/~curcuru/slides/KeepApacheProjectIndependence-SCurcuru-ApacheConAustin-R.odp

Thanks in advance. Yes, I should learn how to script updating the text
blocks in AOO to fix this myself, but life has been too crazy lately
with some serious extended family health issues.

- Shane

Re: Help! Slide template fixup needed!

[Shane Curcuru]

Jean-Frederic ran into the same problem as well, and suggested a fix:

Simply take each slide, cut the text block of bullets, and then paste
back into the slide. Save, and run thru slide show.

This worked for me - both for the section break slides as well as the
main text slides, this removes the transition and also makes the section
breaks appear.

Nick's alternate suggestion is to simply export the preso to PDF, and
then run through the PDF to do it.

Separately, here's hoping that it looks ok on the different projectors
- reportedly session rooms default to 4:3 format.

- Shane

On 4/12/15 3:23 PM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
> So I migrated everything to Nick's pretty Austin template, and didn't
> realize all the transitions were in there.  Is there any AOO Impress
> export out there who's willing to fixup my slides tonight?  (I speak
> right after lunch tomorrow).
> 
> All I need are simple template/text box fixes for all the normal slides
> - most of the deck is just simple bullets with a few obvious section
> heading slides in between.
> 
> - Ensure there are *no* transitions on any text slides. When a slide
> appears, the text block should appear.
> 
> - Ensure the 2 title slides and each the section heading slides actually
> have the text appear in slideshow mode - the slide looks fine except
> when I'm presenting, and then the section headers have no text actually
> appearing.
> 
> - Leave the two weird slides - with no background - alone.  You'll know
> then if you look.
> 
> Deck:
> 
> https://people.apache.org/~curcuru/slides/KeepApacheProjectIndependence-SCurcuru-ApacheConAustin-R.odp
> 
> Thanks in advance. Yes, I should learn how to script updating the text
> blocks in AOO to fix this myself, but life has been too crazy lately
> with some serious extended family health issues.
> 
> - Shane
> 

BarCampApache offshoot: codes of conduct

[Shane Curcuru]

Hey, after an awesome week at ApacheCon, I noticed that we have a
different published code of conduct for the conference - as the official
LF site has - than the one we publish for the ASF overall:

http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/apachecon-north-america/attend/code-of-conduct

https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html

Is this something we're interested in changing, i.e. to expand or
replace the conference one (for future ApacheCon branded events) with
the overall ASF one?

- Shane

Re: Project Visualization Tool...

[Shane Curcuru]

We had a great session, and a lot of energy, hopefully we can make some
progress.  One note: this needs to be a comdev PMC project, and we need
to really plan the data part out if we want to be successful.

Note that projects-new.a.o is the planned future replacement for
projects.a.o - there are *significant* differences, so you need to look
at the About page and the source repo.  In particular, the new site uses
it's own new JSON generated sources which (I think) will no longer use
the DOAPs.

In particular, Infra currently does *not* consider either the data
gathering (i.e. populating the JSON behind the projects-new site) nor
the visualizations (current or ones we want to build) as core supported
services.  So whatever we build needs to be maintained by this PMC to
start with.

Also, Link dump of useful related bits: 

Old service, based on crappy cron jobs and DOAP files from projects:
https://projects.apache.org/

New service, soon to be infra supported, relying on JSON data generated
by infra on a regular schedule:
https://projects-new.apache.org/

Useful PMC chair report helper, that surfaces a number of different
statistics about your PMC(s), including mailing list stats,
PMC/committer changes, some software releases, etc. etc. (Members have
visibility to all PMCs):
https://reporter.apache.org

Rob Weir (AOO, Member) used to do some visualization stuff and might
have code ideas:
http://www.robweir.com/blog/2013/05/mapping-apache.html

Ken Coar's old mailing list stats page:

https://people.apache.org/~coar/mlists.html

The AOO project wrote a mailing list visualizer for who talks to whom:
https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/visualizing_the_aoo_dev_list

Some outside statistics FLOSSmole generated about Apache communities and
lists:
http://flossmole.org/category/tags/apache

Random other interesting analytics:
The Subversion project has the "contribulyzer"



- Shane

Re: Re : Re: Project Visualization Tool...

[Shane Curcuru]

LOL, below.

I highly recommend separating the model from the views, so that we can
efficiently enable our volunteer's energy here to actually accomplish
something valuable.

So let's work on stuff to do that excites us, but remember to keep the
technical problems focused on what this PMC believes we can truly create
and maintain going forward.

Don't worry about everything at once.  Just focus on separate bits:

- Method to scrape source data from our various definitive or even not
completely definitive but very close places (txt files, websites, LDAP)

- Model and data source that actually holds info about committer lists
and project metadata.  I'm betting Daniels' projects-new does this very
well already.

--
- Stable API to get at that model.  Would be really nice if we did this
just once, so that people working above here don't interfere with people
working below here.
--

- Visualizations.  There's lots of different stuff to do here, and I
think it'd be super helpful if everyone just did something they want,
and then show us the code.

Sure, there's lots of "what is important" to focus on, but I for one
would love to see real examples of all the cool visualization libraries
out there, and I know a couple folks already use some of them.

- UI additions for the projects-new/projects websites, which are
featured at the top level of a.o.  I.e., this is our "projects
directory", how can we better lead people who arrive there at what they
want to know?

- (future) UI additions for *other* places.  It would be awesome, for
example, to provide a tiny scriptlet that any project could inject in
their website that displays a "see also" menu.  That would link to a
specific URL on projects.a.o that would say "hey, you came from
Cassandra, here are: -other big data projects, -other projects in Java,
-other projects with the same committers... etc." as a service.

- Shane


On 4/18/15 5:44 AM, jan i wrote:
> On Saturday, April 18, 2015,  wrote:
> 
>> It was told the new site would use native json, instead of doap
>> But I'm not convinced at all, since Doap is an invaluable source of info,
>> documented, and so on
> 
> json is also a documented standard, that in general is more known, and I
> believe has more tools supporting it.
> 
> 
>>
>> then imho it would be better to generate json from doap
>>
>> I disabled the json edit feature recently since it will cause problems
> 
> which problems?
> 
> with a defined json it is simple to generate the doap file.
> 
> I highly recommend staying at json and using that as base for all our
> central data.
> 
> rgds
> jan i
> 
> 
> 
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Hervé
>> - Mail d'origine -
>> De: Shane Curcuru >
>> À: dev@community.apache.org 
>> Envoyé: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 06:43:37 +0200 (CEST)
>> Objet: Re: Project Visualization Tool...
>>
>> We had a great session, and a lot of energy, hopefully we can make some
>> progress. One note: this needs to be a comdev PMC project, and we need
>> to really plan the data part out if we want to be successful.
>>
>> Note that projects-new.a.o is the planned future replacement for
>> projects.a.o - there are *significant* differences, so you need to look
>> at the About page and the source repo. In particular, the new site uses
>> it's own new JSON generated sources which (I think) will no longer use
>> the DOAPs.
>>
>> In particular, Infra currently does *not* consider either the data
>> gathering (i.e. populating the JSON behind the projects-new site) nor
>> the visualizations (current or ones we want to build) as core supported
>> services. So whatever we build needs to be maintained by this PMC to
>> start with.
>>
>> Also, Link dump of useful related bits: 
>>
>> Old service, based on crappy cron jobs and DOAP files from projects:
>> https://projects.apache.org/
>>
>> New service, soon to be infra supported, relying on JSON data generated
>> by infra on a regular schedule:
>> https://projects-new.apache.org/
>>
>> Useful PMC chair report helper, that surfaces a number of different
>> statistics about your PMC(s), including mailing list stats,
>> PMC/committer changes, some software releases, etc. etc. (Members have
>> visibility to all PMCs):
>> https://reporter.apache.org
>>
>> Rob Weir (AOO, Member) used to do some visualization stuff and might
>> have code ideas:
>> http://www.robweir.com/blog/2013/05/mapping-apache.html
>>
>> Ken Coar's old mailing list stats page:
>>
>> https://people.apache.org/~coar/mlists.html
>>
>> The AOO project wrote a mailing list visualizer for who talks to whom:
>> https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/visualizing_the_aoo_dev_list
>>
>> Some outside statistics FLOSSmole generated about Apache communities and
>> lists:
>> http://flossmole.org/category/tags/apache
>>
>> Random other interesting analytics:
>> The Subversion project has the "contribulyzer"
>>
>>
>>
>> - Shane
>>
>>
> 

Re: the doap processing is busted for people.a.o

[Shane Curcuru]

Just a quick note: I'm pretty confident the medium term plan is to
replace the entire projects.a.o build system (rather complicated,
involving multiple steps in Perl and XSLT) with the software behind the
projects-new.apache.org site.  Thus, I highly recommend looking at the
below work instead of doing anything with the old Perl!

Discussion on making changes to the code:
https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/community-dev/201503.mbox/%3C1935041.Ku0l4cXdRX%40herve-desktop%3E

Vote thread to start the process:
https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/community-dev/201503.mbox/%3C54F9DB53.1030005%40redhat.com%3E

Sources and docs for projects-new:
https://projects-new.apache.org/about.html

- Shane

On 4/27/15 4:51 AM, Sergio Fernández wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> I could help on the doap part, but I see that part of the site is built
> using Perl, so I have an issue with that: on the one hand it's language I
> never felt comfortable with, on the other the RDF support is very limited.
> 
> Therefore, before jumping to the see, I'd like to ask you guys a couple of
> details: how much that part of the site is build on doap? and how actively
> maintained is it? Before I could commit some time to branch it and refactor
> it to Python for instance, where I'm more skilled and I can warranty better
> RDF pipeline.
> 
> So comments from you are welcomed.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 3:20 AM, David Crossley  wrote:
> 
>> The 3-hourly processing of the list of DOAP files for people.apache.org
>> site
>> has been spewing errors for many days.
>>
>> I do not know enough about how the site build works
>> (see
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projects)
>> and i do not have it installed locally.
>>
>> I have done some investigation.
>> This error message on 2015-04-17 at 15:30 was the first:
>>
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-site-dev/201504.mbox/%3c20150417153422.0b7c817...@minotaur.apache.org%3e
>>
>> These are the only likely changes that i can find
>> leading up to the error:
>>
>> Author: hboutemy
>> Date: Tue Apr 14 00:31:26 2015
>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/r1673325
>> Log: s/asfext:PMC/asfext:pmc/ to match the extension
>>
>> Author: gmcdonald
>> Date: Tue Apr 14 10:28:09 2015
>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/r1673402
>> Log: remove zookeeper entry for now
>> Modified: infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projects/pmc_list.xml
>> (Note that there is still a zookeeper entry in
>> site-tools/trunk/projects/files.xml if that matters.
>> The commit comment is not useful.)
>>
>> However those were a few days before this error started, so they
>> do not seem likely.
>>
>> Perhaps it is coming from a remote project DOAP file,
>> but the build system does not report which file it is having
>> trouble with.
>>
>> These files also are utilised for people-new.apache.org with a manual
>> import at present.
>>
>> That is all that i have time to do, so hopefully this helps
>> someone else to go further.
>>
>> -David
>>
> 
> 
> 

Standards for mail archive statistics gathering?

[Shane Curcuru]

I'm interested in working on some visualizations of mailing list
activity over time, in particular some simple analyses, like thread
length/participants and the like.  Given that the raw data can all be
precomputed from mbox archives, is there any semi-standard way to
distill and save metadata about mboxes?

If we had a generic static database of past mail metadata and statistics
(i.e. not details of contents, but perhaps overall # of lines of text or
something), it would be interesting to see what kinds of visualizations
that different people would come up with.

Anyone have pointers to either a data format or the best parsing library
for this?  I'm trying to think ahead, and work on the parsing, storing
statistics, and visualizations as separate pieces so it's easier for
different people to collaborate on something.

Thanks,
- Shane

Re: Standards for mail archive statistics gathering?

[Shane Curcuru]

On 4/27/15 2:29 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 9:36 AM, Shane Curcuru  wrote:
...
> If you do Python, you might take a look at
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/devtools/list-stats/ for a
> simple program that could be adapted easily enough.   It uses the
> Python mailbox library to do the parsing.

ACK, will look at.  Yes, I started with a python library, but my issue
is finding a chunk of time to start, code, and actually finish any one
piece, so having a starting place is what I need.

> 
> The biggest challenge making sense of such data, for me at least, was
> the multiple email addresses a single person can use.   Determining
> these aliases for a project you are involved in is possible, though
> tedious.   Doing it for an unfamiliar project borders on the
> impossible.

Yes - a huge part of the value is in identity tracking.  Many committer
records now have alternate emails filled in in the LDAP data that is
behind id.apache.org, and Members certainly can work with infra to get
access, so we certainly can do this for most Apache lists.

> Another "fun" problem is getting all the post time data into the same
> UTC timezone.   The mbox format does not seem to enforce a consistent
> way of encoding these.

Ah, good point.  I was going to start cheap and simply categorize by
calendar day, and call it good enough.

> 
> I see I have a few other analysis scripts on my harddrive I haven't
> checked in that handle the TZ and other issues.   I'll get those
> checked in.   It seems that, almost as good as pre-extracted data
> would be an easy API.
> 
> 
> Ever think of having a contest related to "Visualizing Apache"?   I
> was considering proposing something like that for OpenOffice.
> Provide the data for download (already extracted from our transaction
> systems, so we don't get a harmful about of load on those servers) and
> invite the community to do the analysis, see what insights they can
> generate.

Yes, that's exactly why I want to treat this as an actual architecture,
so to speak.  Really separate out data finding from parsing from
identity matching, and then just find some interim format that
visualization people could just look at.  Makes it much simpler for a
volunteer or someone with limited time to accomplish a real task to only
have to focus on one bit.

- Shane

> 
> Regards,
> 
> -Rob
> 
> 
>> Thanks,
>> - Shane

Re: Standards for mail archive statistics gathering?

[Shane Curcuru]

On 5/5/15 7:33 AM, Boris Baldassari wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> Sorry for the late answer on this thread. Don't know what has been done
> since then, but I've some experience to share on this, so here are my 2c..

No, more input is always appreciated!  Hervé is doing some
centralization of the projects-new.a.o data capture, which is related
but slightly separate.  But this is going to be a long-term project with
plenty of different people helping I bet.

...
> * Parsing mboxes for software repository data mining:
> There is a suite of tools exactly targeted at this kind of duty on
> github: Metrics Grimoire [1], developed (and used) by Bitergia [2]. I
> don't know how they manage time zones, but the toolsuite is widely used
> around (see [3] or [4] as examples) so I believe they are quite robust.
> It includes tools for data retrieval as well as visualisation.

Drat.  Metrics Grimoire looks pretty nifty - essentially a set of
frameworks for extracting metadata from a bunch of sources - but it's
GPL, so personally I have no interest in working on it.  If someone else
uses it to generate datasets that's great.

> 
> * As for the feedback/thoughts about the architecture and formats:
> I love the REST-API idea proposed by Rob. That's really easy to access
> and retrieve through scripts on-demand. CSV and JSON are my favourite
> formats, because they are, again, easy to parse and widely used -- every
> language and library has some facility to read them natively.

Yup - again, like project visualization, to make any of this simple for
newcomers to try stuff, we need to separate data gathering / model /
visualization.  Since most of these are spare time projects, having easy
chunks makes it simpler for different people to try their hand at it.

Thanks,

- Shane

Re: Fwd: Thank You for Joining Pivotal at ApacheCon and Welcome Apache Geode!

[Shane Curcuru]

On 5/14/15 3:41 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> Hrm Is this SPAM due to Pivotal getting my Email via the ACUS roster?

My understanding of LF event policy (who runs the reg and conference for
us) is that they do *not* share email lists with vendors.  I got the
below email also, to my @apache.org email address, which I do not use
for LF registration, so they clearly got it some other way.

- Shane

> 
> Disappointed.
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From: *Andrea Rojas mailto:anro...@pivotal.io>>
>> *Subject: **Thank You for Joining Pivotal at ApacheCon and Welcome
>> Apache Geode!*
>> *Date: *May 14, 2015 at 10:51:16 AM EDT
>> *To: *j...@apache.org 
>> *Reply-To: *anro...@pivotal.io 
>> *Message-Id:
>> *<1063550227.890044935.1431615076532.javamail.r...@sjmas02.marketo.org
>> >
>>
>> 
>>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> Pivotal had a lot going on this year as a Platinum sponsor at
>> ApacheCon. In addition to several excellent sessions, Pivotal also
>> debuted Apache Geode
>>  (now incubating) –
>> the new in-memory distributed database that will form the open source
>> core of Pivotal GemFire .
>>
>> Pivotal is looking for supporters for the Apache Geode technology and
>> community. Check out this blog
>>  for information on
>> how to get involved.
>>
>> For additional opportunities to support the effort:
>>
>>   * Visit the Apache Geode page
>> 
>>   * Participate in the Apache Geode community
>> 
>>   * Learn how you can become a project contributor to this powerful
>> in-memory, distributed database in this video
>> 
>>   * Join this webinar
>>  on June 2nd for a
>> technical tutorial demonstrating how to use in-memory data grid
>> technologies and add these capabilities to your applications
>>
>>
>> Want more? Come see Pivotal in action at a Pivotal Big Data Roadshow
>>  or Pivotal Cloud
>> Platform Roadshow
>>  near you.
>>
>> We look forward to seeing you at our next event
>> !
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Pivotal Team
>>
>> pivotal.io   
>> Follow us on Twitter 
>> Join the conversation on LinkedIn
>>  Like us on Facebook
>>  Add us on Google+
>>  Visit our YouTube
>> channel 
>>
>> Pivotal  is a trusted
>> partner for IT innovation, enabling enterprises to provide modern
>> software-driven experiences for their customers and workforces. The
>> combination of leading agile development services, an open cloud
>> platform and open suite of big data products accelerate innovation
>> cycles for our customers across every industry. More at pivotal.io.
>> 
>> © Pivotal, and the Pivotal logo are registered trademarks or
>> trademarks of Pivotal Software, Inc. in the United States and other
>> countries. All other trademarks used herein are the property of their
>> respective owners. © 2015 Pivotal Software, Inc. All rights reserved.
>> Published in the USA.
>> Unsubscribe 
>>
> 

Re: permissions on COMDEV Wiki space

[Shane Curcuru]

On 5/28/15 2:43 AM, Hervé BOUTEMY wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Community Development has a Confluence Wiki space
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/Index
> 
> For projects-new.a.o, I'd like to use this Wiki to store some docs, but I 
> don't have karma.
> 
> Shouldn't this Wiki be opened to every ASF committer, like the svn space?

+1 from my perspective, although I lack the fu to help.

- Shane

> 
> Regards,
> 
> Hervé
> 

Re: Better specifying the scope of our Code of Conduct

[Shane Curcuru]

On 6/30/15 2:04 PM, Rich Bowen wrote:
> 
> 
> On 06/30/2015 12:37 PM, Stefan Reich wrote:
>> I'm almost tired of criticizing so much, but... I think a "code of
>> conduct"
>> is evil legalese and should be abandoned.
>>
>> Like Jesus said: "Love is the only law you need."
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, that hasn't worked out for us so far.

More to the point, the board and the President have made it clear that
the current CoC is an official ASF policy, so for interactions at ASF
events or on our mailing lists, we expect people to follow it when
working here on Apache projects.

Obviously, other organizations or individuals can choose to use (or not)
their own CoCs for their own projects, but this is the one we've chosen
here.

- Shane

> 
> A CoC serves several real needs. Publicly stating that we have such an
> expectation makes the ASF more welcoming to joiners. It also makes
> explicit some of the expectations for people who bull through life
> without thinking about their interactions.
> 
> Google for 'why we need a code of conduct' and then click on a link at
> random and you'll get a more articulate statement of why this is
> absolutely critical to an organization like ours that spans cultures,
> timezones, projects, and many other borders.
> 
> It is simply not the case that people just naturally know the right way
> to behave. And it is the case that we need to have given careful thought
> to what we're going to do about it when people are jerks.
> 
> Even Jesus violently threw people out of the temple when they broke the
> code of conduct.
> 
> --Rich
> 
>>
>> Cheers
>> Stefan
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
>> >> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Someone mentioned to me that they find the first paragraph of
>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html overly broad,
>>> and I tend to agree.
>>>
>>> That paragraph says "this code of conduct governs how we behave in any
>>> forum and whenever we will be judged by our actions" which implies
>>> that it also applies outside of "ASF territory" - I don't think that's
>>> appropriate. The next paragraph mentions "spaces managed by the Apache
>>> Software Foundation" which I find much more appropriate, maybe
>>> expanded with "and whenever we represent the ASF".
>>>
>>> The reasoning is that we can only speak about our own territory.
>>>
>>> As a simple example, putting your hand on someone's shoulder while
>>> talking to them is totally welcome in some cultures while considered
>>> "unwelcome sexual attention" (to reuse the words of that document) in
>>> others. We might ask people to refrain from doing that in our
>>> multi-cultural environment where we need to go down to some common
>>> denominator of acceptable behavior, but we can't blame them for doing
>>> that where it's culturally acceptable and even expected. The same goes
>>> with profanity, where the acceptable level varies immensely between
>>> cultures.
>>>
>>> So I think it's good to restrict our code of conduct to our own
>>> territory.
>>>
>>> I suggest reworking the first few paragraphs as follows, to clarify
>>> that:
>>>
>>> *** reworked code of conduct intro section ***
>>> This code of conduct applies to all spaces managed by the Apache
>>> Software Foundation, including IRC, all public and private mailing
>>> lists, issue trackers, wikis, blogs, Twitter, and any other
>>> communication channel used by our communities. A code of conduct which
>>> is specific to in-person events (ie., conferences) is codified in the
>>> published ASF anti-harassment policy.
>>>
>>> We expect this code of conduct to be honored by everyone who
>>> participates in the Apache community formally or informally, or claims
>>> any affiliation with the Foundation, in any Foundation-related
>>> activities and especially when representing the ASF, in any role.
>>>
>>> This code is not exhaustive or complete(unchanged from here on)
>>> *** reworked code of conduct intro section ***
>>>
>>> What do people think?
>>> -Bertrand
>>>
>>
> 
> 

Re: What is the legal basis for enforcing release policies at ASF?

[Shane Curcuru]

On 8/7/15 7:53 AM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> Bill,
> So I can release "Niclas Hadoop platform, based on Apache Hadoop" ?? I
> thought the discussion a few years ago was that this was misleading...

No, you cannot.  See our actual trademark policy:

  https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#products

Our release policy, as Roman originally asked about, applies only to ASF
projects, and has no bearing on third parties.  However our trademark
policy, and trademark law, prevents third parties from publicly
providing software using our trademarks.

Our operational policies only apply to our projects, just like any other
corporation.  Some policies, like our license itself and our formal
trademark policy, inform the rest of the world how they are allowed to
use our websites, software code, and brands.

Make sense?

- Shane


> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 12:30 PM, William A Rowe Jr 
> wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 7:50 PM, Roman Shaposhnik 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> while answering a question on release policies and ALv2
>>> I've suddenly realized that I really don't know what is the
>>> legal basis for enforcing release policies we've got
>>> documented over here:
>>>http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html
>>>
>>> For example, what would be the legal basis for stopping
>>> a 3d party from releasing a snapshot of ASF's project
>>> source tree and claim it to be a release X.Y.Z of said
>>> project?
>>>
>>
>> Nothing other than the Trademarks.
>>
>> If someone wants to call httpd trunk 3.0.1-GA, they cannot do this as
>> "Apache httpd 3.0.1-GA" or "Apache HTTP Server 3.0.1-GA".
>>
>> They can certainly release trunk under the AL license and call it "Kindred
>> Http Server 3.0.1-GA, based on Apache HTTP Server". That is a statement of
>> fact and not an abuse of the mark, IMHO. (If it was not actually based on
>> Apache HTTP Server, then that would similarly be a Trademark infringement
>> as it is a false use of the mark.)
>>
>> There are no less than two marks, one is the name of the foundation itself
>> in conjunction with Open Source Software, and the other is the specific
>> project name.
>>
> 
> 
> 

Re: What is the legal basis for enforcing release policies at ASF?

[Shane Curcuru]

On 8/16/15 4:25 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Shane Curcuru  wrote:
>> On 8/7/15 7:53 AM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>>> Bill,
>>> So I can release "Niclas Hadoop platform, based on Apache Hadoop" ?? I
>>> thought the discussion a few years ago was that this was misleading...
>>
>> No, you cannot.  See our actual trademark policy:
>>
>>   https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#products
>>
>> Our release policy, as Roman originally asked about, applies only to ASF
>> projects, and has no bearing on third parties.  However our trademark
>> policy, and trademark law, prevents third parties from publicly
>> providing software using our trademarks.
>>
>> Our operational policies only apply to our projects, just like any other
>> corporation.  Some policies, like our license itself and our formal
>> trademark policy, inform the rest of the world how they are allowed to
>> use our websites, software code, and brands.
>>
>> Make sense?
> 
> It does, but our relationships with downstream Linux vendors
> (just to take the most obvious example) set a very confusing
> precedent.
> 
> Shane, if would be super helpful if you took a look at:
>http://pkgs.org/search/hadoop
>http://pkgs.org/search/maven
>http://pkgs.org/search/subversion
> and pubished your narrative of how the ASF branding
> policies apply in both cases.
> 
> The 3 projects I'm picking represent a pretty diverse
> set of cases of how PMCs are conducting themselves.

OK, that will take some time.  It would help if we can setup a call or
get someone to writeup a description of what those pages mean from the
larger perspective:

Trademarks are about preventing consumer confusion as to the source of
goods.  So we need to consider this from the point of view of an
experienced software developer in the general sense - someone who is
*not* an Apache committer and not experienced with our products in
specific, but someone who is an experienced software developer, systems
architect, or devops type who's trying to evaluate a bunch of software
for their company.

The issue is I don't use pkgs.org (I use homebrew, but only for more
end-user applications recently), so I'm trying to translate to the
experience of an actual developer consumer who'd be trying to find and
use these products.

The problem is that trademark analyses are much easier to do for
consumer products, and for physical goods.  Software is inherently
different in that "marketing brochures" or store signs or packaging is
very different, and widely varied on a whole bunch of web pages.  Plus,
most of our products are highly technical: very few computer end users
are downloading Hadoop or Maven - it's software developers who are
looking for these.  So understanding the common software developer
perspective on how they see *where* these named downloadable software
products are being displayed matters.

- Shane

Re: Apache project word cloud - update?

[Shane Curcuru]

Does anyone have an *updated* graphic like Rob's excellent PMC map
below?  I'm hoping to use something like this in the State of the
Feather next week in Budapest, but I'm completely out of time
writing/practicing my talks myself.  I think using the PMC relationship
- especially showing how we have project clusters in a number of totally
different technology areas - is useful.

Note also that going forward it will be simpler to draw some of this
data from the newly updated reporter.a.o or projects.a.o sites, both of
which already are parsing a lot of the underlying PMC / committer /
project metadata directly from the right sources and then creating JSONs
for everything.

  https://projects.apache.org/about.html
  https://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/projects.apache.org/
  https://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/reporter.apache.org/

Thanks if anyone can help,
- Shane

On 7/2/13 1:47 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>> There's a word cloud of the Apache project names on
>> http://planet.apache.org/ but 1) it was last updated in 2009, and 2) we only
>> have that image in png and gif format. Anyone have the tools/inclination to
>> make a new one in a vector format?
>>
> 
> 
> Not a word cloud per say, but a different kind of visualization of
> Apache projects:
> http://www.robweir.com/blog/2013/05/mapping-apache.html
> 
> Could play with the idea of the links between the projects are as
> important as the projects themselves, e.g., Apache as more than the
> sum of its parts.
> 
> -Rob

Re: Downstream notifications?

[Shane Curcuru]

On 9/22/15 9:55 PM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> Hi,
> Is there an ATOM feed or similar available to get notified about new
> releases in ASF as a whole?

Does any of the stuff on the projects.a.o site help?

  https://projects.apache.org/releases.html

  https://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/projects.apache.org/
scripts/cronjobs/parsereleases.py

- Shane

> 
> I am now in an organization that on one hand trusts ASF releases, but still
> require quite a lot of manual work to repackage for internal distribution.
> All that could be automated at our end, and with some simple notification
> mechanism, it could be fully automatic...
> 
> My guess is that downstream Linux distros could also be very happy with
> such...
> 
> Niclas
> 

Re: Call for Engagement: Open Source in Aerospace Workshop Fed 29th - March 3rd, 2016

[Shane Curcuru]

It's great to see so many serious scientific/aerospace applications that
Apache projects are being used for.

Random question: does anyone have a list, or even rough number, of how
many satellites/rockets out in space are currently running software
that includes code from an Apache project?  Or, where is the furthest
away satellite that includes code from an Apache project?

It's *really* cool to think about how Apache projects are both helping
people on Earth, but also scientists exploring the universe!

- Shane

On 9/26/15 10:29 PM, Lewis John Mcgibbney wrote:
> Hi dev@community,
> 
> Wanted to make people aware of the above workshop which we are proposing to
> co-locate at the Ground Data System Architecture Workshop [0].
> The Open Source in Aerospace Workshop is planned for one full day with the
> principle objective being community building.
> 
> Preparation for the workshop will involve the solicitation of position
> papers from the community on one of the following topics, determined to be
> relevant to OS:
> 
> Process, Maintenance, Reputation, Communities, Intellectual Property,
> Export Regulations, Security and Governance.
> 
> Position papers will describe a basis for exploring and discussing the
> given topic, and will identify both a leader and a scribe, by name.  The
> workshop chairs will select up to four topics for breakout sessions at the
> workshop, based on quality and relevance of received position papers.
> 
> If you work within or have a vetted interest in the Aerospace industry and
> are interested in attending the workshop it would be highly appreciated if
> you could get in touch and let me know your interest as we are in the
> process of advancing preparation.
> 
> Thanks, have a great weekend folks.
> Lewis
> 
> [0] http://gsaw.org/
> 

Re: Projects feed

[Shane Curcuru]

Mike Kienenberger wrote on 10/15/15 4:50 PM:
> I was hoping someone who was more knowledgeable would speak up.
> 
> I recommend reading through this thread and looking at the various
> links as it deals with the same idea:
> 
> Subject: Project Visualization Tool...
> 
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/community-dev/201504.mbox/%3CCALznzY42fB7bbvDvUvwSJirUQtkLqYwCwA2E3UpnkymLc7WD=a...@mail.gmail.com%3E
> 
> Probably accessing each project's DOAP file is the way to go.  Either
> than or screen-scraping the new projects web page.

Similarly, looking through the code that generates that website's data
structures is a good idea.

  https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/projects.apache.org/
  https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/reporter.apache.org/

Note that the reporter tool takes many of the same bits of data, but
then produces commiter-private reports about each project's metrics; so
some of the code (or data sources) you won't necessarily be authorized
to access unless you're a committer on a specific project.

- Shane

> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 2:48 PM, Andrew Paterson
>  wrote:
>> Dear Sir/Madam,
>> I'm interested in visualizing the metadata around Apache Projects to aid my 
>> understanding of them. Is there a publicly available data feed of any 
>> description available to use as a data source? The data I'm interested in is 
>> that presented on https://projects.apache.org/.
>> Yours faithfully,
>> Andrew Paterson

Re: Open Source Project Opt Out

[Shane Curcuru]

In most cases, you will need to unsubscribe yourself from this list
(which presumably you subscribed for in the past somehow).

To do that for this list, send an email asking to unsubscribe to:

  dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org

It will ask you to confirm; just reply to that message and you're done.

Detailed instructions to unsubscribe from any *apache.org mailing list:

  http://apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#subscribing

- Shane

marmar bossoni wrote on 10/10/15 11:32 AM:
> Thanks 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 9, 2015, at 9:17 PM, R.F. McCabe  wrote:
>>
>> How do I opt out of this open source project? I have never signed up for it
>> and cant get it out of my family's systems!  Anyone with assistance in
>> would greatly appreciated. Thank You

Re: Requirements for porting an Apache project

[Shane Curcuru]

Rishabh Tulsian wrote on 10/25/15 10:26 PM:
> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering what are the requirements to follow when porting an Apache
> project. I plan to port a few apache projects to Go as I attempt to learn
> the Go language.
> 
> Is it sufficient to release the ported project under the same license as
> the original Apache project and mention a reference to the original Apache
> project in the README?

We have a FAQ that outlines in general terms what the license means:

  http://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html

In general, you're free to re-use Apache licensed software for virtually
any purpose, as long as you follow the basic conditions in the license -
not using our trademarks, and including any LICENSE and NOTICE files
with your distribution from the original Apache software.

You can license *your* portions of your software under your own license
if you want, but usually it's just easiest to use the Apache license for
the whole thing.

Good luck, sounds like an interesting project.

- Shane

Re: Is there an "official" Apache Way presentation?

[Shane Curcuru]

drugg...@primary.net wrote on 11/3/15 11:04 AM:
> Hi, all;
>As mentioned a long while back, I'm putting together content for a
> potential class about open source at the local university. As a primer
> for the class, I'll be giving a talk on Thursday and I would like to
> include a "The Apache Way" presentation. I've seen lots of these, but
> they have all been different with the speakers' own flare added. I know
> that Nick put together his presentation at ACNA2015 with input from
> several others' [1], but I'm not aware of a "canonical" presentation.
> Does such a thing exist? Should such a thing exist?

No, not really.  As with any good presentation, what should be in it
depends on your audience.  In particular, are you talking about what the
ASF actually is and our background, or just the theories of the Apache
Way?  Is this about how we actually use it at the ASF specifically, or
is it about the general principles as guiding lights for some other
community?  Personally, I find explaining the basics of what the Way
should be different than explaining the actual implementation the
Foundation and many projects actually use, in terms of the specific
rules vs. best practices we have.

For overview info - what the ASF actually is - look at various State Of
The Feather presentations from the past couple of ApacheCons.

Along with the speakers/slides page, many folks use SlideShare.

Separately, I've long thought about trying to get a side thing doing
open source curriculum, so if you have any stories about your
experiences working with the university or the professors you're
partnering with, please share!

- Shane



> 
> If the respective answers are no and yes, I'll be happy to produce a
> deck for the talk on Thursday and put it in the slide store [2].
> 
> Other thoughts/comments welcome
> 
> [1]
> http://events.linuxfoundation.org/sites/events/files/slides/TheApacheWay15.pdf
> 
> [2] https://community.apache.org/speakers/slides.html
> 
> -- 
> Daniel Ruggeri

Re: Feedback on distcp2 page

[Shane Curcuru]

All technical questions about any Apache project should go to the
relevant project's mailing lists:

  http://hadoop.apache.org/mailing_lists.html
  http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html

Almost all Apache projects have a "dev@" mailing list, just like this
project does, where you can ask technical questions.  Many projects also
have a "user@" mailing list for general use questions.  Try one of those
for any technical or code questions about projects.

- Shane

Jebastin Nalliah wrote on 11/15/15 11:01 AM:
> Hi Team,
> 
> With ref to distcp2 in https://hadoop.apache.org/docs/r1.2.1/distcp2.html
> 
> In the section "update and overwrite"  can you please confirm on the
> example.
> 
> - update option is missing in the sample command
> distcp2 hdfs://nn1:8020/source/first hdfs://nn1:8020/source/second
> hdfs://nn2:8020/target
> 
> 
> Also the following statement is incorrect
> 
> If -update is used, 1 is overwritten as well. It should be -overwrite.
> 
> Please correct me if my understanding is incorrect.
> 
> Thanks
> Jebastin
> 

Re: apache event in israel

[Shane Curcuru]

Please bring back discussions/ideas to this list, to ensure you get good
community input (in particular Rich Bowen might have comments to bring
to the Linux Foundation, who runs our major ApacheCon events).  Also,
once you have some plans ready, please see our event branding policy:

  http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events

- Shane

Desmond Chan wrote on 12/13/15 11:57 AM:
> Hi Oleg,
> 
>This is Desmond Chan - Community Builder for Apex.  I will reply in a
> separate email on this.
> 
> Thanks,
> Desmond
> 
> Desmond Chan
> Director, Product Marketing & Apache Apex Community Builder
> | T: (650) 996-3532 | LinkedIn Group
>  | Apex Forum Subscribe
> 
> | DataTorrent blogs  |
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 3:30 AM, Oleg Tikhonov  wrote:
> 
>> Hello all,
>> I am thinking to organise 3 days event here is Israel TLV.
>> The hot topics are: Big Data and Cloud.
>> The amount of people very roughly is about 1000.
>> What should I do to materialize this thought?
>> Please advise.
>> Best wishes,
>> Oleg
>>
> 

Re: Making license adjustment tools publicly available

[Shane Curcuru]

Christopher wrote on 2/4/16 7:25 PM:
> It might be relevant that that both of those tools appear to be licensed
> under ASL 2.0, which explicitly permits redistribution (presumably outside
> the private area?). I would think it confusing to have an open source
> license on software which is expected to remain private, or otherwise
> restricted from redistribution. As such, it seems prudent to move them to a
> more appropriate area. That's my opinion, anyway.

Yes, the Apache license explicitly gives broad permissions.  But the ASF
organizationally is very conservative about actually redistributing
software.  That is, we *could* legally redistribute some random software
we found under AL or MIT or the like, but if someone makes it clear they
*didn't* intend to submit it to an Apache project, then we'll generally
respect their wishes.

In this case, it's all work done by ASF Committers for the purpose of
doing work on Apache projects, so I can't see why it would be a problem.
 It's most likely that once Apache projects finished updating to 2.0
license, no-one bothered to think of these tools again.

In any case, I would definitely recommend either testing them, or
putting in behavior so that it doesn't actually change files in the
default command line (to prevent surprises, if it doesn't work as
someone anticipated).

- Shane

> 
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 7:14 PM Roman Shaposhnik  wrote:
> 
>> Hi!
>>
>> a podling recently asked me why:
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/relicense/
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/tools/copy2license.pl
>> are only available to commiters. I see
>> no reason why, but of course I'm appreciative
>> of the warning here:
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/README
>>
>> Two questions:
>>1. Is there any disagreement that making this tool publically
>> available would be a 'good thing' ?
>> 2. Who should bless the svn mv if we all agree?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>>
> 

Adding asfext:registered to projects.a.o?

[Shane Curcuru]

I need to annotate our structured data set of Apache projects to track
which project names are registered trademarks.  This is needed to be
able to properly generate a.o/foundation/marks/list (which is currently
sadly outdated since it's manually built now).  This is a serious need
for Brand Management, since we regularly have third parties say "but you
didn't SAY it was your trademark, so I can do it anyway..."

My thought is to annotate the PMC DOAP files with a registered marker,
then use the existing projects.a.o building of the organized data.  Then
use either JS or some cron static generation to display the actual
marks/list page.

Is annotating the project data sources the best idea, or should I simply
create a new stable URL data source that's just a list of registered
names, and join the tables?

The end result needs to be webcontent listing projects like:

The ASF claims these trademarks
...list all active TLPs
Apache {$projectname}
{$if registered then "®" else "™"}


  {$shortdesc}
...
The following projects are retired
...list all Attic projects

The following projects are in incubation; all trademarks here may be
property of respective owners
...list all Incubation projects

Separately, we should list the name of each software *product* here,
since if we offer something with a clear name as an independently
downloadable software product, it can be our trademark.  So I'd like to
list "Apache Directory Studio", since that's a notable name and a major
product.  But I don't want to list "Apache Commons Foo Bar Baz and
Kitchensink", since those are effectively just minor components that
aren't really worth claiming.

Comments/suggestions please?  I'm including the Whimsical project since
they are also major consumers of this data.

- Shane

Re: Adding asfext:registered to projects.a.o?

[Shane Curcuru]

Sam Ruby wrote on 2/11/16 12:28 PM:
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 11:35 AM, sebb  wrote:
>> On 11 February 2016 at 12:03, Shane Curcuru  wrote:
>>> I need to annotate our structured data set of Apache projects to track
>>> which project names are registered trademarks.  This is needed to be
>>> able to properly generate a.o/foundation/marks/list ...

...

>> Therefore I think a separate file is needed.
>> That would also allow write access to be limited if necessary.
> 
> There are indeed multiple ways to solve this, and each way involves a 
> tradeoff.
> 
> I would suggest separating this question into three parts.
> 
> - - -
> 
> First, where is the ultimate source for the data.  And the best way to
> address that question is to first decide who will be updating that
> data.  Will it be each project, or those on the branding mailing list,
> or only VP brand?  Knowing the answer to that question will make a big
> difference.
> 
> My suggestion would be to start simple with a single file, in the same
> directory as committee-info.txt.  I'd suggest YAML as a format as it
> is a good tradeoff between human edit-ability and programmatic
> parse-ability.

The raw data of which TLP names are registered can be public; it's
already findable in various national registries.  I may want to add an
additional enum "application-submitted", but even that can be public.

Theoretically just the brand committee should update the file, but in
reality we can restrict to members; I don't think they'll mess anything up.

The file won't change that often, but changes will be manual (i.e. when
we hear from counsel about applications).

> 
> - - -
> 
> Next is access.  What you need is something that takes the data from
> the private repository, sanitizes it, and publishes the result for
> public consumption.  Whimsy has a bunch of cron jobs that places
> similar data here: https://whimsy.apache.org/public/.  A script that
> parses a YAML file out of SVN, selects and filters out various parts,
> and publishes the results in JSON format is very doable.

It can go in a public repository if that makes it easier.  Of course,
this data isn't technically owned by any one project, so we need to find
a home for it, unless I should just dump it in the a.o site.

Is there any overall place for structured data about corporate
operations currently?
> 
> ---
> 
> Finally, there is publishing.  While that could be a cron job that
> produces static HTML, web browsers have the ability to consume JSON
> and format the results.  That's probably the best solution to this.

Thinking it through, we should fold this data into a number of places:

- The marks/list page, which needs to be regenerated each month after
the board meeting formally graduates or attics projects.  It likely has
low traffic to the page itself, but needs to be accurate, because
lawyers are the kind of people who will read it.

- projects.a.o, where it would be really nice to annotate project names
with the appropriate ® and ™ symbols.  As this service becomes
more popular, having clear trademark indicators for our projects will
help ensure that third parties know (and can verify) that the ASF takes
it's trademarks seriously.

- www.a.o homepage, where whatever parts of the main site are generated
in any fashion include appropriate ® and ™ symbols

I figure the first thing is to come up with schema and location of where
to put the source YAML/JSON file, then engineer the display into
marks/list or the main projects.a.o stuff.  Then see where to go from there.

> 
> ---
> 
> The Apache Phone book is an example of an application that uses the
> above design:
> 
> https://home.apache.org/phonebook.html
> 
> In fact, if the data is made available in this manner, the trademark
> information could be included directly in the results of the page it
> produces.  That's one of the nice things about having a public JSON
> version of the data published - multiple tools can consume that data.

Yeah, the more of these useful sites we have, it would be nice to fold
this in so it just gets automatically included.  It's especially
important for registered marks, because some countries require use of
the (R).

- Shane

Re: GSoC 2016

[Shane Curcuru]

Rajdeep Surolia wrote on 2/25/16 6:28 AM:
> Sir/Ma'am,
>   I am new to open source and have some knowledge in C/C++ and
> JAVA. I want to participate in GSOC '16 for ASAF. Can you please guide me
> through the process. I am serious about contributing to ASAF and
> participating in GSOC '16 and willing to learn new things that are required
> in the process. Your help will be much appreciated.

The GSoC application process for students doesn't start until 14 March.
 While mentoring organizations haven't formally been announced, we
expect the ASF and a number of our Apache projects to be participating -
however we don't have that list ready yet.

The best thing to do now is review the GSoC site for the process:

  https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/

If you want to start looking at what different projects are at the ASF,
you can browse our projects directory - but note, only some projects
will be participating in the formal GSoC program:

  https://projects.apache.org/

Thanks for your interest and good luck!

- Shane

Re: GSOC 2016

[Shane Curcuru]

Prashant Kumar wrote on 2/15/16 12:34 AM:
> Sir/Mam,
>  My name is Prashant Kumar and I am 3rd year b.tech student of Netaji
> Subhash Engineering College, Kolkata.
> I am interested in GSOC 2016 and would like to contribute to your projects
> using C, C++ languages. I love coding and have participated in competetions
> like Codevita.
> It would be very helpful if I could be guided on how to get started and
>  what kind of projects are to be started this year.
> Looking forward to your reply. Thank you
> 

The GSoC application process for students doesn't start until 14 March.
While mentoring organizations haven't formally been announced, we expect
the ASF and a number of our Apache projects to be participating -
however we don't have that list ready yet.

The best thing to do now is review the GSoC site for the process:

https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/

If you want to start looking at what different projects are at the ASF,
you can browse our projects directory - but note, only some projects
will be participating in the formal GSoC program:

https://projects.apache.org/

Thanks for your interest and good luck!

- Shane

Re: Automated ASF GPG signing

[Shane Curcuru]

Christopher wrote on 2/25/16 1:47 PM:
> I'm not sure where exactly this discussion should fit, but I know people
> have brought up questions about ASF-wide signing of artifacts before, so
> I'll just mention it on this list.
> 
> Fedora infrastructure has built a project called sigul:
> https://fedorahosted.org/sigul/
> which they use as part of their infrastructure to automate signing of RPMs
> and ISOs and such.
> 
> ASF could set up a similar service for ASF-wide release signing.
> 
> This particular project looks like it has a GPL2 license on it, and I'm not
> sure what the policy is for Fedora infrastructure, but for Fedora
> packagers, contributions (under their ICLA) are MIT, so it's possible that
> if we wanted to use this, and provide ASF-wide release signing, the Fedora
> community would be willing to re-license under MIT if that were necessary
> for us to consider using it.
> 
Interesting point.  The first question is: what Apache projects want to
do something like this?  While volunteers can work on whatever new ideas
people like working on, we don't tend to build officially supported
services (especially security-related ones!) unless there are some
specific PMCs that ask for it.

Once there's some interest from projects, it's a question of figuring
out a draft plan and seeing if the security and maintenance are
something the ASF and our small but awesome infrastructure team would be
willing to host.

Also, have you read through the Apache release policy and signing
details to see exactly how this would fit?

  http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html
  http://www.apache.org/dev/release-signing.html

The ASF does have a central code signing service for Windows binaries
and JARs supported by Symantec, although it's not widely used yet:

  https://reference.apache.org/pmc/codesigning

- Shane

Re: People finder

[Shane Curcuru]

Daniel Ruggeri wrote on 3/5/16 11:07 AM:
> Hi, all;
>It's been in my backlog to update and/or add my info for the Nearby
> Apache People app[1]. I noticed a few things to point out (and I won't
> complain without offering to help, so if anyone could point me in the
> direction of fixing these, I will be happy to oblige).
> 
> * The local mentors page [2] references the FOAF page [3] at
> people.apache.org, but that doesn't seem to have survived the recent
> migration. Is it gone or should the link be updated?

Good point - people.a.o is no more; home.a.o (which is different in
services/features, mostly just ~/public_html serving) replaces it:
committ...@apache.org "[NOTICE] people.apache.org web space is moving to
home.apache.org"
Message-ID: <5655a774.2040...@apache.org>

A lot of stuff is happening around projects.a.o and whimsy.a.o (and the
new phonebook app) to provide access to more structured data versions of
a number of internal bits of ASF data, like PMC listings, membership,
committer lists, and the like in JSON:

  https://projects.apache.org/about.html
  https://whimsy.apache.org/technology.html
  d...@whimsical.apache.org

Note that one issue is maintenance: infra is only formally responsible
for SLAs and maintenance of core services.  The Community Development
PMC is responsible for a number of these services, so we haven't had
volunteers to move everything (or, to update all the docs) to the new
stuff on projects.a.o and whimsy.a.o yet.

- Shane


> * It looks like I did add myself last year (r58358), but I don't appear
> on the finder app. Any pointers on where to get started debugging?
> * Following links on the finder app when clicking on 'info' for a person
> in the result leads to a broken page[4] on people.apache.org. Should
> these lead to the phonebook app like so [5]?
> * I went to do this all afresh on a new machine and was confused by the
> auth message (Authentication realm:  ASF
> Members) on the commiters repo[4]. I think it should just be
> s/Members/Committers/ since it accepted my authn creds and I am not a
> member. Do I report this to infra or can we correct it?
> 
> 
> [1] http://community.zones.apache.org/
> [2] http://community.apache.org/localmentors.html
> [3] http://people.apache.org/foaf/
> [4] http://people.apache.org/list_R.html#wrowe
> [5] http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=druggeri
> [6] https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers
> 

Re: Real time event processing - Storm Or Spark Streaming API OR Flink?

[Shane Curcuru]

Ravindra Babu wrote on 3/5/16 6:17 PM:
> Hi,
> 
> I don't know whether it is right e-mail id to raise concerns or not. If not
> please let me know right e-mail id.

All work done on Apache projects is done by volunteers on those specific
projects.  The ASF as a whole does not provide technical direction, nor
do we push any sort of coordination between projects.

That is: work on Apache projects is done by the committers doing the
work themselves.  So if you have suggestions for specific Apache
projects to improve things, you need to show up with some specific
suggestions for improvements on their dev@ mailing list(s).

> Multiple projects are going on and with overlapping features. It leads
> wastage of huge efforts.
> 
> Developers and end users are getting spoiled with more choices.  You should
> look at consolidaiton of projects and get rid of duplicate efforts.
> 
> e.g. Real time event processing.
> 
> *Storm* is first choice for developers*.  *
> *Spark Streaming *is recommended over  *Storm* after some time
> *Flink *is recommended now.
> 
> When people are thinking of *Flink  *USP is real time event processing,
> batch processing APIs are also available, which is again in parallel to
> *Spark.*
> 
> 
> Same is the case with *ActiveMQ *and *Kafka*
> 
> it's high time for consolidation of various projects and concentrate on key
> projects.

More choices means that more different kinds of users might want to use
our software.  The mission of the ASF is to produce software for the
public good.  As long as *someone* thinks an Apache project is useful -
and is willing to contribute code back to that project - we're happy for
that project to go in whatever technical direction they want to.  Even
if that means there are several projects in similar technology spaces.

- Shane

Re: Localizing + blogging about ComDev to encourage regional participation

[Shane Curcuru]

Sally Khudairi wrote on 3/9/16 3:48 PM:
> Hello Uli + team ComDev --I hope you are all well.
> 
> A quick heads-up that I was contacted by Luke Han [1], who is seeking
> to find ways to help him spread the word about Apache in China.
> 
> I pointed him to the ComDev pages, and he's interested in translating
> them, as well as possibly posting some entries on blogs.apache.org
> that can serve as resources for the region (and elsewhere as
> appropriate).
> 
> So my questions are:
> 
> 1) any objections to the translation of http://community.apache.org/

Of course not!  Everything is under the Apache license, so you can do
this for any website without asking permission on your own.  The only
question is if we're posting "official" translations on an apache.org
website, we should make sure the relevant project knows you're doing it.

Luke, if you're interested in translating the community.a.o website,
please start a new thread here on dev@community.apache.org with your
plan so we can +1 it.

> 
> 2) I presume we'll work with Infra to have a link to the localized
> pages (IIRC, https://translate.apache.org/ may be
> terminated/discontinued?)

I know that translate.apache.org is officially supported for adhoc
project translations.  That site is mostly for managing the translation
of pages, not necessarily posting/managing all the content on the website.

The HTTPD, CouchDB, and OpenOffice projects have active translation
setups, you might want to ask one of them for tips if you're planning to
translate whole websites:

https://httpd.apache.org/docs-project/translations.html
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COUCHDB/Translation+Guide
https://openoffice.apache.org/translate.html

> 
> 3) if the above is acceptable, are you OK with specific, non-English,
> blog entries being posted about the concepts/topics in
> community.apache.org?

Of course, as long as they include an English "the official project page
is here" link or the like, to tie together the translated content with
the project's relevant English pages.

Which specific blogs.a.o/* blog would this be under?  Luke will need a
Roller account on the blogs service, and whoever's the blog admin will
need to add them, etc.


- Shane

> 
> Thanks so much for this!
> -Sally
> 
> 
> [1]  VP, Apache Kylin 
> https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_apache_software_foundation_announces85
> 
> 
> + copying Ross, Rich, and David on this to close the loop on some informal 
> communications on this.
> = = = = =  
> vox +1 617 921 8656
> gvox +1 646 598 4616
> skype sallykhudairi
> 

Re: Apache/Linux foundation outreach?

[Shane Curcuru]

Roman Shaposhnik wrote on 3/24/16 7:40 PM:
> Well, please ignore the rest of this email (it wasn't meant to be CCed
> here). But the following
> part still stands as a good question for this crowd:

Well, if there aren't gonna be yummy crepes, the answer is probably no.
8->

> On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Roman Shaposhnik  
> wrote:
>>> By the way I wanted to reach out to people who are working on building open 
>>> source communities
>>> to see if they would be interested in attending devrelcon.com. I was 
>>> wondering if the Apache Foundation,
>>> Linux Foundation, or other groups that you know would be willing to have 
>>> Community sponsor status
>>> (with logos and such on our site and signage) in exchange for sending out 
>>> an email to its list about
>>> devrelcon.com.
> 
> Thoughts on something like devrelcon.com? Since I'm local to the SF
> Bay Area I can
> volunteer as a speaker. A question that I don't know the answer to is:
> whether ASF
> has ever considered to be a 'media sponsor', etc.

Why would we provide our brand as a sponsor to a third party event that
is not directly providing education or track content about specific
Apache projects?

Honest question: I'm curious to see what people think about it.  If
folks have good answers for this, but haven't read our event branding
policy, you should (since it's somewhat related):

  http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events

- Shane

Re: Apache Events In India

[Shane Curcuru]

Sam Radhakrishan wrote on 3/29/16 4:00 AM:
> Hello all,
> 
> I am student from India interested in being a part of Apache community. I
> would love to know if there are any Apache events in India.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Sam Radhakrishnan
> 
We have an official calendar of events, but it doesn't include
everything, and tends to only be larger conferences or formal events,
not smaller meetups:

  http://community.apache.org/calendars/conferences.html

I'd also suggest looking through the other popular event tracking
websites for local ideas - many Apache and open source groups use these
to track events:

  http://www.meetup.com/
  http://lanyrd.com/
  https://opensource.com/resources/conferences-and-events-monthly

- Shane

Re: Apache/Linux foundation outreach?

[Shane Curcuru]

Tama oh wrote on 3/30/16 7:10 PM:
> Fyi, once Roman confirms his talk title an abstract, he will be on
> the schedule to share his knowledge on the Apache way of building
> global open source Dev communities. I'm excited! Thanks!

Cool, if it were East coast I'd want to come (but no-one funds my travel
these days).

Re: community sponsorship, our current policy is not to do this for
non-Apache project conferences.  The ASF is very sensitive to our
vendor-neutral and project-first ways, so we would only list our feather
icon when the project is being run by/for an Apache PMC for that project.

Hope to see folks at either ApacheCon/BigData or OSCON!

- Shane

> 
> Best,
> Tamao
> 
>> On Mar 30, 2016, at 17:55, Richard clark  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Mar 24, 2016, at 4:40 PM, Roman Shaposhnik  wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, please ignore the rest of this email (it wasn't meant to be CCed
>>> here). But the following
>>> part still stands as a good question for this crowd:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Roman Shaposhnik  
>>> wrote:
> By the way I wanted to reach out to people who are working on building 
> open source communities
> to see if they would be interested in attending devrelcon.com. I was 
> wondering if the Apache Foundation,
> Linux Foundation, or other groups that you know would be willing to have 
> Community sponsor status
> (with logos and such on our site and signage) in exchange for sending out 
> an email to its list about
> devrelcon.com.
>>>
>>> Thoughts on something like devrelcon.com? Since I'm local to the SF
>>> Bay Area I can
>>> volunteer as a speaker. A question that I don't know the answer to is:
>>> whether ASF
>>> has ever considered to be a 'media sponsor', etc.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Roman.

Re: projects

[Shane Curcuru]

Tim Williams wrote on 4/7/16 8:06 AM:
> Howdy All,
> Where does the source/code for projects.a.o live?
> 
> https://projects.apache.org/projects.html?category
> 
> Thanks,
> --tim
> 
Ha! It's too obvious in this case: 8-)

  https://projects.apache.org/about.html

points to:

  http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/projects.apache.org/

Bigger picture, I wish every site had an "About" or similar page that
had an easily findable "how do submit patches for this website" section.

- shane

Should we update /policies/anti-harassment for Apache events?

[Shane Curcuru]

We have a posted anti-harassment policy focused on behavior at in-person
events, but it's looking a bit outdated since it references ConCom [1]...

  http://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/anti-harassment.html

With the recent questions about our event branding policy, and the many
Apache projects that are running their own Meetups or other smaller
events, is it time to update this policy as well, and either require or
suggest it's adopted by events?

Note that ApacheCon and other major events are covered by
anti-harassment policies by their producers (LinuxFoundation in many cases).

- Shane

[1] Conferences Committee, the second PMC created at the ASF in 1999
after the HTTP Server PMC, but disbanded a few years back with the
changes in how ApacheCon was produced.

Re: Advice for community participation to lower tension

[Shane Curcuru]

Now published on the ComDev site:

  http://community.apache.org/contributors/etiquette

Improvements welcome.  Note that ComDev is primarily introductory
materials, and plenty of pointers to canonical sources of information
(like policies, apache.org/dev pages, and the like).  So this is in no
way a replacement for the Code of Conduct or similar pages, but more of
an introduction.

- Shane