Re: What are the basic, invariant rules of Apache projects?

[Christian Grobmeier]

>> Another question would be to define what is the purpose of the project: 
>> Should
>> the reader take some kind of specific action (e.g. restructure the project 
>> he is
>> working on), should frequent questions concerning how software is developed 
>> at
>> Apache be answered (than the post should maybe not be just a blog post but
>> somehow integrated in the official documentation?)
>
> My goal is mostly for volunteer Apache community members to discuss
> and agree on the list of "rules", and publish the results. No hidden
> agenda, just trying to start clarifying what we mean by "the Apache
> Way".
>
> To me the big advantage of a blog post is that it can safely rot - it
> only reflects the understanding of its authors as of today, as opposed
> to official documentation which is supposed to be the Final Truth (and

there are already several documents around which should describe the apache way:

http://incubator.apache.org/learn/theapacheway.html
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html

A blog post would of course increase the visibility of this topic, but
having offical documentation and blog posts which are possibly
conflicting each other might not be a good idea. So, I would think
that there needs to be something offical.

Additionally, a blog post reflects the understanding of the authors as
you said. I think it would be good to have different authors on this
post or even have several posts to different topics or views, which
are basically expressing the same.

That being said, an official documentation is good in my opinion. If
this documentation points people to blog posts which describe what it
means in practice, I think this would be enjoyable.

Cheers
Christian

Re: What are the basic, invariant rules of Apache projects?

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hi,

>> ...a blog post reflects the understanding of the authors as
>> you said. I think it would be good to have different authors on this
>> post ...
>
> That's why I'm posting my draft here, for collaborative editing. I
> have no problem signing the blog post with the names of whoever helps
> writing it.
>
> Judging the enthusiasm so far, I might also just post on my own blog.
> That can also be useful even if it's then only my own view on things.

I think you got me wrong because i expressed badly. I didn't want to
say that this is bad - I like the idea and I think its necessary to do
things like this. What I meant was more, we need more posts of that
kind, from various authors (various blog posts).

Also I think that official resources should link to this blog article and others

OK, just wanted to say clear: I like it.

Cheers
Christian

Re: Mentoring Programm

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hello,

after reading: http://community.apache.org/mentoringprogramme.html
I would suggest that you subscribe to the Logging list for discussing
an implementation idea and search for an interested mentor. In log4j
world are some ideas around for Log4J 2, this could be a good chance
to help.

Here is the mailling lists link:
http://logging.apache.org/mail-lists.html

Best regards and see you there,
Christian


On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 8:59 AM, George Suaridze
 wrote:
> Неllo,
>
> I have read about Mentoring Programm at apache.org. So I want to join
> it. I am interesting in log4j project.
> But I don't know how to find a mentor.
> I have good skills in Java, Hibernate, Spring. Basic skills in AOP.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> George Suaridze
>

Presentations

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hello all,

I don't know if this topic has been discussed before or if I missed if
its aready there. But before a few weeks I had to explain to my
customer "what actually open source is". I have started to create some
slides myself, after I found nothing on the a.org sites. Then I was
aware of:

* http://opensource.org/osi-open-source-education#presentations_developed_by_osi

which is pretty good for explaining open source.
However, my customer was doing stuff mostly in Java and so ASF
projects were used. He was esspecially interested in the ASF licensing
model, in "what people are working there" and in "what actually is the
ASF". I have done some slides, but I think this could be done better
if we would develop some official resources together.

Of course some might say, that people who are not connected to the ASF
could use this official ASF slides. But they will talk about the same
things, just without ASF slides. And hopefully good slides help also
to clean up with some misunderstandings. Additionally we can make sure
that things, which are important to the ASF, like meritocracy are
pointed out in a good way and not only with one sentence between
coffee and cookie.

That being said, I would love to have the chance to take some official
slides when I get to my customer next time. Is there anybody who feels
the same?

Best regards,
Christian

Move project to apache-extras

[Christian Grobmeier]

At the FAQ
http://community.apache.org/apache-extras/faq.html
is "file an issue here" but without an link, just plain text

I would like to move piwi.googlecode to apache-extras, name has been
reserverd by myself.
Any ideas where I can do it?

Best regards
Christian

PS: and yes, I really like this approach!

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Shane Curcuru  wrote:
> https://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/p/examine/
>
> Plenty of twitter traffic so far; would be great to get some press hits as
> well.
>
> Thanks to ComDev especially Luciano and Ross, and also to all the Googlefolk
> who put it together (and wrote us a nice blog posting from their side as
> well).
>
> - Shane
>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de

Re: Move project to apache-extras

[Christian Grobmeier]

> And here is the final link:
> http://code.google.com/p/support/issues/entry?template=ASF%20migration%20request
> I'll update the FAQ.

Thanks.

I saw:
"We do not migrate code, allowing projects to migrate code themselves
on their own schedule using svnsync"

Is there a how to somewhere?

Christian

Re: Move project to apache-extras

[Christian Grobmeier]

> Where is your project currently hosted ?

piwi.googlecode.com

I thought everything would move on "by magic" ;-)

Re: Move project to apache-extras

[Christian Grobmeier]

Thanks Luciano,
I read throught the svnsync docs and it seems straightforward. i will
try proceed with this the next days.
Cheers
Christian

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Luciano Resende  wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Christian Grobmeier
>  wrote:
>>> Where is your project currently hosted ?
>>
>> piwi.googlecode.com
>>
>> I thought everything would move on "by magic" ;-)
>>
>
> I just confirmed that the migration process will move everything
> except for the code as you mentioned. Please see the svnsync
> documentation [1] that can help you move the code once the project is
> migrated to Apache Extras.
>
> [1] http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.4/svn.ref.svnsync.html
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de

Re: Move project to apache-extras

[Christian Grobmeier]

>> Thanks Luciano,
>> I read throught the svnsync docs and it seems straightforward. i will
>> try proceed with this the next days.
>
> Please let us know how you get on, I'd like to document this process.

OK - requested yesterday. Probably have this done on monday or tuesday.

Cheers,
Christian

Re: Move project to apache-extras

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hello,

just a short update: I requested the move on 18.12.2010, but still
nothing happened:
http://code.google.com/p/support/issues/detail?id=4798&sort=-id&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Milestone%20Priority%20Stars%20Owner%20Summary

I will keep you posted if there is progress.

Best regards,
Christian

On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 11:59 PM, Ross Gardler  wrote:
> On 18 Dec 2010, at 12:07, Christian Grobmeier  wrote:
>
>> Thanks Luciano,
>> I read throught the svnsync docs and it seems straightforward. i will
>> try proceed with this the next days.
>
> Please let us know how you get on, I'd like to document this process.
>
>
>> Cheers
>> Christian
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Luciano Resende  
>> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Christian Grobmeier
>>>  wrote:
>>>>> Where is your project currently hosted ?
>>>>
>>>> piwi.googlecode.com
>>>>
>>>> I thought everything would move on "by magic" ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I just confirmed that the migration process will move everything
>>> except for the code as you mentioned. Please see the svnsync
>>> documentation [1] that can help you move the code once the project is
>>> migrated to Apache Extras.
>>>
>>> [1] http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.4/svn.ref.svnsync.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Luciano Resende
>>> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
>>> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
>>> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.grobmeier.de
>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de

Re: Move project to apache-extras

[Christian Grobmeier]

Migration has been done yesterday.

But it seems there is an redirection problem in
http://apache-extras.org/p/piwi/
which rewrites to:
http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.orgp/piwi/

I opened an issue for that problem:
http://code.google.com/p/support/issues/detail?id=4894

>From SVN migration point of view it seems as everything has been
migrated without any actions from my side. But lets see if this is
still true if the redirect works

Best regards,
Christian

On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 11:59 PM, Ross Gardler  wrote:
> On 18 Dec 2010, at 12:07, Christian Grobmeier  wrote:
>
>> Thanks Luciano,
>> I read throught the svnsync docs and it seems straightforward. i will
>> try proceed with this the next days.
>
> Please let us know how you get on, I'd like to document this process.
>
>
>> Cheers
>> Christian
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Luciano Resende  
>> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Christian Grobmeier
>>>  wrote:
>>>>> Where is your project currently hosted ?
>>>>
>>>> piwi.googlecode.com
>>>>
>>>> I thought everything would move on "by magic" ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I just confirmed that the migration process will move everything
>>> except for the code as you mentioned. Please see the svnsync
>>> documentation [1] that can help you move the code once the project is
>>> migrated to Apache Extras.
>>>
>>> [1] http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.4/svn.ref.svnsync.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Luciano Resende
>>> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
>>> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
>>> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.grobmeier.de
>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de

Re: The theory of retreats

[Christian Grobmeier]

I feel simliar to Benson. Ireland is very nice, but it has a very high
cost on time.
I just took a look at the committers map. Wasn't there an effort
before to bring together Apache people (and interested) in a specific
area? 10 people from bavaria can make it in one day to an event and
back. Cost should be very low. Of course not the same as a big
meet'n'greet in ireland, but it might help people coming into apache
or finally meet at least the people near you. From bavaria, I would
propose the name "Apache Stammtisch". ;-)

On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Benson Margulies  wrote:
> I have interest, but I have a very, very, strong priority toward
> family on free time, and it's not so easy to transport the skating
> competitions, piano lessons, and other family weekend activities to
> Ireland. Aide from the fact that, as part of that priority, I tend to
> want to spend the time with the family, wherever we are at. It is true
> that Vermont (say) might be more digestible than Ireland :-) Please
> don't interpret this as some sort of dog-in-manger ("I don't want to
> do it so it shouldn't exist") attitude.
>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de

Re: The theory of retreats

[Christian Grobmeier]

Are you using XING or similar to announce/organize the event? If a
XING group is used, people can follow (like me). And probably other
events like a bavaria barcamp could join teh group too

On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Ulrich Stärk  wrote:
> We are doing something like this in Berlin already: every month or so we meet 
> for an Apache Dinner.
> Usually there are 2-4 members, 6 or so committers and a few guests, all from 
> the area.
>
> Uli
>
> On 03.03.2011 14:54, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>> I feel simliar to Benson. Ireland is very nice, but it has a very high
>> cost on time.
>> I just took a look at the committers map. Wasn't there an effort
>> before to bring together Apache people (and interested) in a specific
>> area? 10 people from bavaria can make it in one day to an event and
>> back. Cost should be very low. Of course not the same as a big
>> meet'n'greet in ireland, but it might help people coming into apache
>> or finally meet at least the people near you. From bavaria, I would
>> propose the name "Apache Stammtisch". ;-)
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Benson Margulies  
>> wrote:
>>> I have interest, but I have a very, very, strong priority toward
>>> family on free time, and it's not so easy to transport the skating
>>> competitions, piano lessons, and other family weekend activities to
>>> Ireland. Aide from the fact that, as part of that priority, I tend to
>>> want to spend the time with the family, wherever we are at. It is true
>>> that Vermont (say) might be more digestible than Ireland :-) Please
>>> don't interpret this as some sort of dog-in-manger ("I don't want to
>>> do it so it shouldn't exist") attitude.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de

Re: The theory of retreats

[Christian Grobmeier]

> Can you get either 3 apache committers, or 2 apache committers + 2 others to
> agree to help run a one day BarCamp in Bavaria? (BarCamps are probably
> easier and cheaper to put on than Retreats)

Hm why not? I will see if I can find some other interested people from
the south. For sure it would make sense. I will check out the links
Ross send before minutes

> If so, concom is ready to help with mentors, advice, suggestions, and
> possibly funding too (depending on the proposal you put in). All you need to
> do is track down enough people near you to help run it!
>
> (The limiting factor at the moment is volunteers on the ground)

OK thanks for the information
Cheers
Christian

>
> Nick
>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de

Re: The theory of retreats

[Christian Grobmeier]

> Right now we are using a mailing list hosted by Isabel Drost. Not everyone 
> has a XING account,
> though, so a mailing list might be better suited. Or is there a way to hook 
> up a mailing list with a
> XING group?

No, no way to combine this. Guess it will get more visibility through
such a group. Probably plannings can be done on the ml, announcements
and discussions with non-committers on xing.

btw, whats ml are using? I would like to subscribe, if possible

>
> Uli
>
> On 03.03.2011 15:34, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>> Are you using XING or similar to announce/organize the event? If a
>> XING group is used, people can follow (like me). And probably other
>> events like a bavaria barcamp could join teh group too
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Ulrich Stärk  wrote:
>>> We are doing something like this in Berlin already: every month or so we 
>>> meet for an Apache Dinner.
>>> Usually there are 2-4 members, 6 or so committers and a few guests, all 
>>> from the area.
>>>
>>> Uli
>>>
>>> On 03.03.2011 14:54, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>>>> I feel simliar to Benson. Ireland is very nice, but it has a very high
>>>> cost on time.
>>>> I just took a look at the committers map. Wasn't there an effort
>>>> before to bring together Apache people (and interested) in a specific
>>>> area? 10 people from bavaria can make it in one day to an event and
>>>> back. Cost should be very low. Of course not the same as a big
>>>> meet'n'greet in ireland, but it might help people coming into apache
>>>> or finally meet at least the people near you. From bavaria, I would
>>>> propose the name "Apache Stammtisch". ;-)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Benson Margulies  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I have interest, but I have a very, very, strong priority toward
>>>>> family on free time, and it's not so easy to transport the skating
>>>>> competitions, piano lessons, and other family weekend activities to
>>>>> Ireland. Aide from the fact that, as part of that priority, I tend to
>>>>> want to spend the time with the family, wherever we are at. It is true
>>>>> that Vermont (say) might be more digestible than Ireland :-) Please
>>>>> don't interpret this as some sort of dog-in-manger ("I don't want to
>>>>> do it so it shouldn't exist") attitude.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de

Re: Publicising events (was Re: The theory of retreats)

[Christian Grobmeier]

> On the other hand, with my ConCom hat on I would probably respond along the
> lines of "it's worth considering places like Xing, but we will never reach
> all of the possible social networks/event announcement lists/event feeds
> etc. We should encourage all people interested in the ASF to publicise our
> events for us in these places."

I think this is a good thing to have great ads with a very low cost. I
don't think it is necessary to use them all. In germany probably Xing,
Facebook and Twitter is most used from the social tools. I guess in
the US LinkedIn replaces Xing in this list. These four will already
have a good effect.

>From administration perspective, how is this done. In Xing groups you
can add more than one moderator. Facebook allows Pages with multiple
moderators too. So I guess we have some volunteers (the streetteam
;-)) for each network to fill the actual content and a small set of
group who are overseeing this activities.

Anyway, a central place for our events would also be good. On the
website there is a place for conferences, but I was not aware about
the Dinner in Berlin, even when I live in germany myself. I would have
expected there is a link from the main page to some kind of calendar.
All events on this calendar are allowed to be publicised to the
networks, maybe.

Christian

Re: The theory of retreats

[Christian Grobmeier]

>> Apache Roundtable needed?
>>
>> Would it be ok for you to meet in a smaller group first and together with
>> another
>> UserGroup first? I mean, for example, the GTUG (GoogleTechnologyUserGroup)

> The requirements for an event to qualify for ConCom support are documented
> at http://wiki.apache.org/concom-planning/ConComSupportedEvents
>
> Since you are talking about co-locating at an existing event I'm not clear
> on what support you would need.

Ross, I guess he was talking about a first small meeting to discuss
the next steps. This will not need any support from ConCom so far


-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de

Re: [DISCUSS] Crazy or good Idea?

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hello,

I like your idea very much. A "Support inc"  can help in different cases. It 
could even act as some kind of conflict resolution as well, which is definitely 
something one needs to think of. Also collecting payments and paying out can be 
a pain.

Support Inc is not only limited to providing support for specific issues, but 
can also help with providing trainings, paid talks etc. pp.

I like the idea that this company is not profit oriented. Still it will have 
expenses, like book keeping, postal services, etc pp. Also, people who help 
with conflict resolution, sign contracts, do marketing etc will also need to be 
paid. I would expect that some percentage of a gig will need to flow back into 
the organisation, to cover its expenses and also have some reserve. In the end, 
I would expect that a few people will work professionally for this org.

There is many interesting forms for such an organisation. Actually, such a 
company would basically only need the blessing of the ASF and a few willing 
people to found and fund it. 

Kind regards,
Christian

On Wed, Apr 20, 2022, at 18:56, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> well in general the only reason I added the Board oversight into my 
> sketch was because I've seen with other companies (Like Tidelift) that 
> this is the main problem when it comes to working together with the ASF 
> Projects. So I thought: If the board is added as an oversight, then we 
> can ensure that the companies goals don't cannibalize the ASF's goals.
>
> I'm definitely not insisting on this ... I would just hate to see yet 
> another commercial entity that is not in line with the ASF emerge.
>
> Also, would I like to lay emphasis on the part of everyone being able 
> to be registered. Of course, can't we provide 24/7 instant support for 
> all projects, the Support Inc. would more act as a proxy between 
> individuals (Or even groups of individuals).
>
> Chris
>
> -Original Message-
> From: giova...@paclan.it  
> Sent: Mittwoch, 20. April 2022 16:45
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Crazy or good Idea?
>
> I like the idea a lot and, actually, I thought about something similar 
> (more similar to Jarek's interpretation) more then once but I always 
> stopped by thinking "who should be crazy enough to support this ?".
> Probably now times are mature enough to start something.
>  Giovanni 
>
> On 4/20/22 16:07, Jarek Potiuk wrote:
>> I like the idea, not silly at all, but I think it has one caveat.
>> 
>> Contrary to what you wrote about the ASF values, I think (that's my 
>> first thought at least) that if it happens it should be an individual 
>> initiative of some members. And IMHO there should be no formal 
>> board/ASF affiliation IMHO because then it is - at least that's my gut 
>> feeling - quite contrary to the values and the ASF legal status.
>> 
>> As I see it - people representing the Support Inc. company (even if 
>> they are from ASF) should not really be "ASF representatives" because 
>> if they do, this puts some responsibilities and guarantees on both 
>> sides (and especially on the ASF). There are certain guarantees that 
>> come with more or less formal association with the ASF brand and I 
>> think if the board overlooks the "Support Inc." - by definition it has 
>> some guarantees (and I do not know for sure but that would likely not 
>> be legal when it comes to the ASF status). But that would not (I
>> think) preclude that some of the founders are board members. As long 
>> as there is a good care about conflict of interests separation, the 
>> multiple-hat idea is quite easy to apply here.
>> 
>> That would likely make Support Inc. less "attractive" - especially for 
>> the potential customers (precisely because of the lack of those 
>> guarantees by the ASF). But on the other hand, if this company is run 
>> and started by people who are "well established" in the OSS community 
>> the attractiveness of such a Support Inc. company is already high. If 
>> anything, by the network of individual relations of those people who 
>> start it. In a way this would be similar approach as Tidelift (some of 
>> the people there are with the OSS background), but it could be 
>> structured differently (with different incentivization for both 
>> customers and contributors, focusing more on individual relationships 
>> of people who would start it rather than on "brand/company", different 
>> marketing and promotion ideas - so it could be better suited for the 
>> ASF projects. And it could become part of the "ecosystem" around the 
>> ASF (which the ASF could actually list on the page among others like 
>> Tiidelfit without endorsement or guarantees). So it might be a YABD 
>> (Yet Another But Different) Tidelift-like company.
>> 
>> This is a model similar to many ASF projects commercial activities - 
>> there are people, individuals with merit and experience in the project 
>> and they decide to start or join a commercial company tha

Re: It’s time to change the name

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hello,


On Thu, Apr 28, 2022, at 20:57, me wrote:
> The desire to make the change is definitely there. I echo Walter’s 
> passion and statements. 

+1 
> I also agree w/ Sam that this isn’t going to be easy to accomplish. 

+1 

> Perhaps a starting point would be to answer these questions in concert: 
> - what is the LOE to perform the rebranding/renaming? 
> - are there enough volunteers within the organization willing to participate? 
> - what does the community think? 
>
> I want to emphasize that this last question is a point of no return. If 
> we start creating surveys and asking about our brand, it’s going to 
> chum the waters. 

Agreed. I would have thought to make a poll in the community first- briefly 
explain the issue and see what the community (non-binding) vote is - just 
checking sentiments.

I am afraid there will be a lot of headwinds.  But based on the outcome one 
could decide if its more work to explain the issue or actually solve the issue.

Also a quick poll could stir up some people who are interested in helping.

Cheers,
Christian

>
>
> From: Walter Cameron 
> Reply: dev@community.apache.org 
> Date: April 28, 2022 at 01:29:03
> To: dev@community.apache.org 
> Subject:  Re: It’s time to change the name  
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 6:40 PM Sam Ruby  wrote:  
>
>> Walter: what are you personally willing to volunteer to do? What is  
>> your plan? What resources do you need?  
>
>
> Honestly Sam the extent of my plan was to bring attention to this issue and  
> the harms it’s caused. Beyond that I’m kinda winging it but I appreciate  
> your eagerness and openness to change. I had hoped I’d speak up, people  
> would finally pull their heads out of the sand and work to undo the harm  
> they’ve caused.  
>
> ASF’s brand violates its own CoC. You would think that might spur effort  
> for change by those perpetuating the harm, but if you want me to do the  
> work I’ll do whatever I can. I’m not that familiar with the details of the  
> organization, surely not as familiar as one of its Directors, so in a lot  
> of ways I don’t fully understand the scope of what needs to be done, but  
> I’m willing to volunteer a few weekends of my rudimentary technical and  
> design skills to run a “Find & Replace…” and put together a new logo or  
> whatever you think would be helpful in this effort. I haven’t designed a  
> logo in probably 15 years but I’m willing to give it a try.  
>
> I would have assumed that an organization with a paid staff and goals to  
> increase the diversity of its contributors and continue receiving corporate  
> donations would understand that the costs of inaction outweigh the costs of  
> action here.  
>
> Let me know what else I can do to help.  
>
> Walter

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Re: It’s time to change the name

[Christian Grobmeier]

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022, at 22:19, me wrote:
> Christian, 
> 
> Were you thinking of an internal poll? That’s actually a spectacular idea. 

Yes, that was I was thinking. Basically a poll on members@, since (I guess) 
members would eventually decide on that proposal.

> 
> How do we go about kicking that off? 

I am not so sure either, but I guess writing the poll and proposing it to 
community@ would be a first step. Once decided on the content we could vote on 
sending it, and then send it to members@

Others may have different ideas, but that is my first idea on it.

Thanks for calling my idea spectacular, it gives me a warm feeling, since I 
didn't think of it as such :)

Kind regards,
Christian

> 
> 
> Ed Mangini
> m...@emangini.com
> 
> 
> From: Christian Grobmeier 
> Reply: dev@community.apache.org 
> Date: April 28, 2022 at 15:43:04
> To: dev@community.apache.org 
> Subject:  Re: It’s time to change the name 
> 
>> 
>> Hello, 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022, at 20:57, me wrote: 
>> > The desire to make the change is definitely there. I echo Walter’s 
>> > passion and statements. 
>> 
>> +1 
>> > I also agree w/ Sam that this isn’t going to be easy to accomplish.  
>> 
>> +1 
>> 
>> > Perhaps a starting point would be to answer these questions in concert:  
>> > - what is the LOE to perform the rebranding/renaming?  
>> > - are there enough volunteers within the organization willing to 
>> > participate?  
>> > - what does the community think?  
>> > 
>> > I want to emphasize that this last question is a point of no return. If 
>> > we start creating surveys and asking about our brand, it’s going to 
>> > chum the waters. 
>> 
>> Agreed. I would have thought to make a poll in the community first- briefly 
>> explain the issue and see what the community (non-binding) vote is - just 
>> checking sentiments. 
>> 
>> I am afraid there will be a lot of headwinds. But based on the outcome one 
>> could decide if its more work to explain the issue or actually solve the 
>> issue. 
>> 
>> Also a quick poll could stir up some people who are interested in helping. 
>> 
>> Cheers, 
>> Christian 
>> 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > From: Walter Cameron  
>> > Reply: dev@community.apache.org  
>> > Date: April 28, 2022 at 01:29:03 
>> > To: dev@community.apache.org  
>> > Subject:  Re: It’s time to change the name 
>> > 
>> > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 6:40 PM Sam Ruby  wrote: 
>> > 
>> >> Walter: what are you personally willing to volunteer to do? What is 
>> >> your plan? What resources do you need? 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Honestly Sam the extent of my plan was to bring attention to this issue 
>> > and 
>> > the harms it’s caused. Beyond that I’m kinda winging it but I appreciate 
>> > your eagerness and openness to change. I had hoped I’d speak up, people 
>> > would finally pull their heads out of the sand and work to undo the harm 
>> > they’ve caused. 
>> > 
>> > ASF’s brand violates its own CoC. You would think that might spur effort 
>> > for change by those perpetuating the harm, but if you want me to do the 
>> > work I’ll do whatever I can. I’m not that familiar with the details of the 
>> > organization, surely not as familiar as one of its Directors, so in a lot 
>> > of ways I don’t fully understand the scope of what needs to be done, but 
>> > I’m willing to volunteer a few weekends of my rudimentary technical and 
>> > design skills to run a “Find & Replace…” and put together a new logo or 
>> > whatever you think would be helpful in this effort. I haven’t designed a 
>> > logo in probably 15 years but I’m willing to give it a try. 
>> > 
>> > I would have assumed that an organization with a paid staff and goals to 
>> > increase the diversity of its contributors and continue receiving 
>> > corporate 
>> > donations would understand that the costs of inaction outweigh the costs 
>> > of 
>> > action here. 
>> > 
>> > Let me know what else I can do to help. 
>> > 
>> > Walter 
>> 
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>> 

Re: Idea: Monthly Members Moment/Critical Committer Communications

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hi
Is the move to the new privacy policy interesting enough to be added to the 
bullet points? It’s a boring topic topic too many but maybe worth to mention 
due to its impact on websites
Cheers

--
The Apache Software Foundation
V.P., Data Privacy

On Mon, May 2, 2022, at 17:03, Josh Fischer wrote:
> Gotcha.  I’ll send it out tomorrow!
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 9:49 AM Sam Ruby  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 10:39 AM Josh Fischer  wrote:
>> >
>> > I remember us agreeing to send it out on May 5.  Since I'm not a member,
>> > I'll leave that up to either Rich or Sam to send out.
>>
>> I had sent the last one out on the first Tuesday of the month, which
>> happened to be the 5th last month.  I'd recommend following a similar
>> pattern as that will avoid weekends.  For some months, this may need
>> to be adjusted for holidays.
>>
>> To me, one of the purposes of this exercise is to see if someone other
>> than the usual hyper-volunteers steps up, so I won't be sending the
>> email.
>>
>> But I am a moderator for that list, and if I see content that matches
>> the wiki page in the moderation queue this week, I will approve it.
>> Whether the person sending it is an ASF member or not won't affect
>> whether or not I approve the content.
>>
>> - Sam Ruby
>>
>> > Thank ya
>> >
>> > On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 9:21 AM Rich Bowen  wrote:
>> >
>> > > The last one we sent, Sam sent directly to the members-notify list -
>> > > which does, indeed, need to be done by a member.
>> > >
>> > > I've added one more (member-specific) item to the highlights. I feel
>> > > like we're missing something important, but I cannot remember what it
>> > > is.
>> > >
>> > > What is our send date?
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, 2022-05-02 at 08:57 -0500, Josh Fischer wrote:
>> > > > The newsletter has been updated and just about ready for sending
>> > > > out.. Not
>> > > > sure of the whos or hows of getting this across the foundation.  Is
>> > > > there
>> > > > a preferred way that I can get this distributed?  Is this something
>> > > > only
>> > > > a member can/should do?
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 4:20 PM Josh Fischer 
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > We have room for another bullet point or two if anyone wants to add
>> > > > > anything to the critical committer communications letter.   We have
>> > > > > about
>> > > > > two weeks before it will be sent out. Link below.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=210078929
>> > > > >
>> > > > > - Josh
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 9:32 AM Sam Ruby 
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 10:30 AM Josh Fischer
>> > > > > >  wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Created a starter with a few fun facts here:
>> > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/0YyFD
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Feel free to add or take away as you see fit.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > THANK YOU!
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > - Josh
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > - Sam Ruby
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 8:40 AM Sam Ruby
>> > > > > > >  wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Message has been posted.  Next time it probably should be a
>> > > > > > > > pure plain
>> > > > > > > > text version.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Anybody want to get started on May?  Create the wiki page,
>> > > > > > > > put some
>> > > > > > > > content there, and then send it out the first week in May
>> > > > > > > > after others
>> > > > > > > > have been given the opportunity to contribute.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > - Sam Ruby
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 10:01 AM Rich Bowen
>> > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Problem: Members (and, more generally, committers) are less
>> > > > > > > > > engaged
>> > > > > > with
>> > > > > > > > > the larger Foundation than at any point in our history.
>> > > > > > > > > Meanwhile,
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > mechanisms for getting more engaged (eg, the members
>> > > > > > > > > mailing list)
>> > > > > > are a
>> > > > > > > > > firehose of unrelated content that is very frustrating to
>> > > > > > > > > the casual
>> > > > > > > > > participant - even those who desire a deeper engagement -
>> > > > > > > > > and, in
>> > > > > > > > > practice, are completely off-putting. Committers,
>> > > > > > > > > meanwhile, have no
>> > > > > > > > > real avenue, outside of their project, for further
>> > > > > > > > > engagement.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > I've been struggling with ways to address this for years,
>> > > > > > > > > and they
>> > > > > > all
>> > > > > > > > > tend to founder on the rocks of "People should just be
>> > > > > > > > > doing X!"
>> > > > > > which,
>> > > > > > > > > in each case, is true, but also dismissive and ultimately
>> > > > > > > > > unhelpful.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > I would like to propose that we are more proactive about
>> > > 

Re: Idea: Monthly Members Moment/Critical Committer Communications

[Christian Grobmeier]

Thank you - I will make sure to add a bullet point to the next draft.


On Tue, May 3, 2022, at 12:38, Jarek Potiuk wrote:
> And re: Christian - privacy policy is important :). We can even say that
> some PMCs already converted to Matomo and we wait for others to catch up
> (peer-pressure :D).
> J.
>
> On Tue, May 3, 2022 at 12:35 PM Jarek Potiuk  wrote:
>
>> I looked through it - I have one other comment/proposal: should we maybe
>> add a digest of discussions running on members@a.o ?  I think a lot of
>> people does not follow up those and while it is easy to look at the list in
>> archives, maybe listing the discussions with one-line summary would be good
>> ?
>>
>> Happy to make such a digest if others agree it's a good idea.
>>
>> J.
>>

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Re: June Monthly Members Moment

[Christian Grobmeier]

I added some note for the new privacy policy - please adjust or remove as to 
your liking.
Thanks for keeping up the monthly moments, it's a good addition!

Kind regards,
Christian

--
The Apache Software Foundation
V.P., Data Privacy

On Tue, May 3, 2022, at 19:26, Josh Fischer wrote:
> I changed the structure of the Monthly Moments pages:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/0YyFD
>
> Starter page for June is below:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/yBKhD

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Re: What are best practices for hosting content on project website?

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hello Divij,

from a privacy perspective (only):

videos should only load from google, when the user actively gives consent. 
Embedding it directly would transfer data to google. Usually you can achieve 
this by creating an image placeholder for that video and notifying the visitor, 
a click on it would embed a YouTube video.  

See: https://privacy.apache.org/faq/committers.html

Doing it this way would not cause any privacy issues. If you have questions, 
please ask directly, on privacy@ or on Slack.

Other opinions, which I am not so sure with:

Related to your other questions: I think a content creator can prevent embeds, 
if they want to do so. I would assume content creators would do this, if they 
don't want their video to be embedded. I would not download any video without 
permission and host it elsewhere. 

Related to 2), I think lazy consensus or commit-than-review may be a good 
approach. But projects may be able to handle "what to add" differently.

Kind regards,
Christian

--
The Apache Software Foundation
V.P., Data Privacy

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022, at 10:44, Divij Vaidya wrote:
> (cc: Apache Kafka dev mailing list)
>
> Hi folks
>
> We, at Apache Kafka, are discussing
>  the best
> ways to host video content that we consider beneficial to our users.
>
> Currently, the video content is hosted on YouTube and embedded on our
> website pages (e.g. here  and here
> ).
>
> We would like to understand:
>
>1. Do we have examples of other ASF projects which are hosting/embedding
>video content on their website?
>(Where do you host the content? What permissions/licence did you require
>from the video owners for usage?)
>2. If your community is adding external links (blogs, videos, podcasts
>etc.) to the project website, how do you decide which content to allow and
>which not?
>
> I have also started a thread on the legal mailing list
>  to get
> some answers for the same.
>
> Regards,
> Divij Vaidya

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Re: What are best practices for hosting content on project website?

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hi,

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022, at 07:44, Justin Mclean wrote:
> I'd also be concerned that even if you implement user consent, you 
> would still be giving user data to the 3rd party vendor if they are 
> hosting the videos, which is probably something you shouldn't do on an 
> ASF site. Also, the vendor could change that video to something else, 
> and while they may not do that, the project's PMC should be in control 
> of the content, not a 3rd party. So it would be best for the project to 
> host any videos themselves.

As long as the user knows what is going on I am not so much concerned about 
what you wrote, but I see your point and won't argue against.

Also, I fully agree, self-hosting is better for privacy and control. However, 
agreement with the creator of the content is necessary and hopefully infra can 
handle videos.

Kind regards,
Christian


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Re: The Apache Software Foundation Do Not Sell My Data Request (PH-G6MK3A4R)

[Christian Grobmeier]

Dear Robert,

we are an Open Source organisation which develops software for the public good.
We are not selling any kind of personal data.

Please let me know why you thought this would be the case.

Kind regards,
Christian

--
The Apache Software Foundation
V.P., Data Privacy

> On Tue, Aug 30, 2022, 2:31 PM Robert Aydin  wrote:
>
>> Dear The Apache Software Foundation
>>
>> I would like to request that you no longer sell my personal data to any
>> third parties.
>>
>> Please respond by email with confirmation that you have completed
>> processing this request and that my personal data will no longer be sold.
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> Powered by PrivacyHawk 
>>
>> Request ID: PH-G6MK3A4R
>>

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Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance

[Christian Grobmeier]

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022, at 10:49, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Sam Ruby  wrote:
>>
>> TL;DR: given a set of moderation guidelines and volunteers to
>> administer them, I'm willing to set up and host an ASF
>> Fediverse/ActivityPub instance on fly.io...
>
> Do you mean to open this to everybody who has an @apache.org account?
>
> Or just for a few official handles like announce@, TheASF@ ?
>
> If the latter, the moderation work might be much lower.

I was thinking the same. If the latter, I can also try to help with moderation. 
Never did that before, but I can give it a go.
Also, I can help with crafting privacy policy.

I just checked, there is the domain asf.social which costs 45€ a year. Could be 
nice to have that.

Kind regards,
Christian

>
> Or maybe setting up *two* services makes sense, people.s.a.o and
> foundation.s.a.o, with the latter being more critical but less costly
> to operate from a moderation point of view.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> -
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Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hi Joe,

I fully understood your point. Let me ask one question here. If we are 
concerned about how we would appear in public, because of one committer would 
say something using their Mastodon:

Aren't we saying "PR over community, community over code?"

Community is also because we have opposite opinions, or sometimes opinions 
which are different from the ASF. It needs to be like this, otherwise we don't 
have any development.

Bu t I mentioned, I get your point. Would you be less concerned with a domain 
like asf.social, since this is not an official domain? Assuming asf.social 
would be only for ASF community, but also allow "offical" accounts like 
press@asf.social?
Or is it the same problem in your opinion?

Kind regards,
Christian



On Thu, Dec 8, 2022, at 19:53, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
> There's a very large difference between email and a Mastodon account.
> There's an implicit expectation of moderation around Mastodon
> instances and major differences how people use and consume a
> microblogging service vs. email.
>
> I often tell people that "everything you say publicly is PR" and
> that's true. If you say something on a public mailing list, it's fair
> game for press, etc.
>
> *But* email doesn't have the same level of public exposure and
> resharing that microblogs like Mastodon do. Yes, you can forward an
> email, but there's not a one-click easy button for someone with 10K
> followers to expose that to a much larger audience the way there is
> with Mastodon or Twitter.
>
> *But* with Twitter, unless an account is marked "official" it's
> separate from your organization's identity. (More or less.) If
> @u...@apache.org decides to "toot" something, and it spreads, it's
> (potentially) seen as coming from this community and not merely the
> user.
>
> For that reason, I'd strongly prefer limiting any official or
> semi-official ASF instance to projects or roles and not handing out
> accounts for individuals to use as their social media presence in the
> "fediverse."
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 7:25 PM Owen O'Malley  wrote:
>>
>> I disagree. I think having an individual identity at Apache is important.
>> Just because I have omalley@X doesn't mean that it is the same as
>> omal...@apache.org. Having a gmail address does not mean that I don't use
>> omal...@apache.org.
>>
>> .. Owen
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 9:25 PM Joe Brockmeier  wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 7:33 AM Sam Ruby  wrote:
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 4:50 AM Bertrand Delacretaz
>> > >  wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Hi,
>> > > >
>> > > > Sam Ruby  wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > TL;DR: given a set of moderation guidelines and volunteers to
>> > > > > administer them, I'm willing to set up and host an ASF
>> > > > > Fediverse/ActivityPub instance on fly.io...
>> > > >
>> > > > Do you mean to open this to everybody who has an @apache.org account?
>> > > >
>> > > > Or just for a few official handles like announce@, TheASF@ ?
>> > > >
>> > > > If the latter, the moderation work might be much lower.
>> > > >
>> > > > Or maybe setting up *two* services makes sense, people.s.a.o and
>> > > > foundation.s.a.o, with the latter being more critical but less costly
>> > > > to operate from a moderation point of view.
>> > >
>> > > I don't want this to be me driving the social requirements.  I want
>> > > comdev and/or M&P (and ideally both) coming to an agreement on what is
>> > > best.
>> > >
>> > > I'm merely offering to make the technical and hosting parts happen.
>> > >
>> > > I'm OK with experiments (let's try this... no that didn't work, how
>> > > about that).  Preferably ones with clear exit criteria (example:
>> > > moderators don't show up and the instance gets shut down).
>> >
>> > From an M&P perspective I'd strongly prefer official handles like
>> > announce, infra, cloudstack, president, etc. and *not* jzb, rubys, and
>> > so forth.
>> >
>> > People are still figuring out the world of ActivityPub/Fediverse, etc.
>> > but I the moderation and policy problems become exponentially more
>> > difficult if we're providing a platform for individual voices vs.
>> > simply providing a platform for "if you want to follow the official
>> > social channel of CloudStack on ActivityPub, this is how you know it's
>> > real and can feel confident in following it" + "here's an easy way to
>> > find all the ASF projects on a social platform."
>> >
>> > Anybody who wants a presence on the fediverse as themselves can find
>> > one easily enough - it's not necessary for us to provide that service
>> > to members the same way it's necessary/desirable to provide email
>> > addresses.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > jzb
>> > --
>> > Joe Brockmeier
>> > Vice President Marketing & Publicity
>> > j...@apache.org
>> >
>> > -
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
> -- 
> Joe Brock

Re: Stackoverflow

[Christian Grobmeier]

> Like Nick I'm interested in the "unknown community" that exists in SO. I'm
> particularly interested in bringing that community into our own communities.

Do you really think you will adobe the SO community into the ASF community?

I doubt. SO will absorb the ASF user community.

At the point of time when people have the choice to use a fancy web ui
instead of email, they will choose the web ui. More and more users
will move to the UI until there is no activity on the users ML. At one
day incubator podlings will ask for a SO tag instead of a user ml.

Then you have SO absorbed us. Then they are our provider. I don't
think we can get a good level of control except on the API level. And
since everything works well with SO, who would maintain custom API
stuff? There is no need to write any code, it will soon RIP off.

SO as our user provider? Its not open enough for me. Call me an idiot.
I agree email is lost and oldschool. But a company providing us closed
source tools for such an important topic - no, thanks.

The user mailing list has been used to announce several important
messages. Updates, security holes etc. How would you inform your users
on SO? How can you, as a user, make sure you'll get this information?

What is with "community over code"? How can one earn committership? Is
the new criteria to join the number of upvotes in SO? Having one of
these fancy badges? There are thousands of people active on SO - I
doubt I will remember a name from there. In a mailinglist I have
learned already lots of names. A ml is a smaller usergroup. I prefer
that instead of this mass production.

My 2 cents. From the previous discussions I have already seen there
are many people excited about SO. I am not. For sure my user support
will end, when people have started to use SO more than our
mailinglists. I cannot effort another tool for answering questions
except my gmail client, which organizes everything so well. After all
I am not paid for asf support - i will not go and check my tags for
new questions each hour or something.

Cheers,
Christian





> One way is to adopt their tools in some way, as you describe. Another is to
> figure out who these people are and point our communities at their good
> work.
>
> If [2] can help in doing this then I'd be very interested in anything you
> can do with it. It seems, on the surface, to be much easier, legally sound
> and provides a quicker "win".
>
> Ross
>
>>
>> Thoughts ?
>>
>>>
 The content itself on our tags would need backing up. That way, if
 SO ever went under, we wouldn't loose the content. (Even if we
 couldn't immediately read it...). Can we use the API to do that? Can
 we make it work in a way that infra can easily support?
>>>
>>> I think my suggestion above covers this (although it only gives a partial
>>> backup of highest rated answers)
>>>
 What about cross polination between the mailing list and SO? Do we
 post the list of questions to the mailing list, or simply require
 that interested people sign up to both? Pros, cons?
>>>
>>> Covered by my answer above.
>>>
 How about existing committers coming to SO. How can we ensure they
 have enough rep to quickly take part in the tag for their project?
 And what about moderation of the tag, should we push for extra
 access?
>>>
>>> I'd want committers to be recognised with an automatic rep making them
>>> stand
>>> out. They've earned their merit here, if SO were an official channel then
>>> that merit should count. If it is an unofficial channel then this is less
>>> of
>>> a problem.
>>>
>>> As for moderation - no idea since I don't know how this works at present.
>>> I
>>> have noticed very little bad content on SO so it sounds good.
>>>

 Anything else?

 Nick
>>>
>>>
>>
>> [1] - http://stackapps.com/
>> [2] - http://data.stackexchange.com/
>>
>
>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de

Re: Stackoverflow

[Christian Grobmeier]

>> Do you really think you will adobe the SO community into the ASF
>> community?
>
> No, of course not.
> I'm referring to the few people who are clearly knowledgeable about ASF
> products. Helping others on SO but are not, for whatever reason, engaging
> with the ASF projects in question. These people deserve merit in the ASF and
> right now they are not getting it.

OK, but how can they earn merit within the ASF? With using the offical
Apache-SO-tags? Sorry, but can you explain how this might work. I have
no imagination (this is not polemic, i really would like to know)

>> SO as our user provider? Its not open enough for me. Call me an idiot.
>> I agree email is lost and oldschool. But a company providing us closed
>> source tools for such an important topic - no, thanks.
>
> Nobody is suggesting that, at least not in this thread.

In my understanding it was proposed to "allow" PMCs to use SO as
official communication channel. Am I wrong?

Once projects are doing that, people will use SO more and more and
migrate from the lists.
Even when nobody has suggested to replace the ML with SO, it will
finally happen. Or might happen.

Cheers,
Christian

Re: Shared Calendars

[Christian Grobmeier]

Great idea.

But why not having a Calendar for all projects. One might be able to
filter for a specific project or event type, be it "release", "dinner"
or whatever. Other events would become a better visibility, like
Apache CON or a retreat

Christian

On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Grant Ingersoll  wrote:
> I'm curious, do any projects have shared calendars?  For instance, the 
> thought occurred to me that I might put up a Google Calendar for Lucene or 
> Mahout that is public read-only, but committers have write control on it.  On 
> the calendar, we could put things like potential release dates, reminders for 
> PMC actions (such as review potential committers or do board reports).  
> Community members could submit "patches" for community related events such as 
> conferences, meetups, hackathons, etc.
>
> -Grant



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de

Re: Shared Calendars

[Christian Grobmeier]

> Note, also, someone pointed out to me that JIRA might already have what we 
> need without adding more infrastructure.

Just checked, but I can see dates only related to issues or releases.
Apache retreats would fall off.
Here is a plugin i found: https://plugins.atlassian.com/plugin/details/293

> In some regards, I think ideas along these lines are almost like social unit 
> tests for PMCs/committers.  That is, what automated mechanisms can we have 
> that _help_ PMCs do their jobs better in the least intrusive way possible and 
> give feedback on a regular basis when things could be better.
>
>
> On May 20, 2011, at 7:44 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>> On 20/05/2011 12:02, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>>> Great idea.
>>>
>>> But why not having a Calendar for all projects. One might be able to
>>> filter for a specific project or event type, be it "release", "dinner"
>>> or whatever. Other events would become a better visibility, like
>>> Apache CON or a retreat
>>
>> I think this would be really good. However, I don't think we need to dictate 
>> where projects keep their calendar stuff. The starting point is for projects 
>> to select a solution that suits them and make us aware of an iCAL feed.
>>
>> ComDev can then create a calendar that imports these various feeds. Moving 
>> forwards we might provide a funky front end that allows feeds of certain 
>> types to be aggregated into a personal feed - but lets not get ahead of 
>> ourselves ;-)
>>
>> So who is going to create the comdev feed and add Grants Lucene feed as a 
>> first one. I know ComDev have discussed having a calendar of events in the 
>> past, if we provide some visibility for it maybe we can actually make it 
>> worthwhile.
>>
>> Ross
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Grant Ingersoll  
>>> wrote:
>>>> I'm curious, do any projects have shared calendars?  For instance, the 
>>>> thought occurred to me that I might put up a Google Calendar for Lucene or 
>>>> Mahout that is public read-only, but committers have write control on it.  
>>>> On the calendar, we could put things like potential release dates, 
>>>> reminders for PMC actions (such as review potential committers or do board 
>>>> reports).  Community members could submit "patches" for community related 
>>>> events such as conferences, meetups, hackathons, etc.
>>>>
>>>> -Grant
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> rgard...@apache.org
>> @rgardler
>
>
>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de

Re: Shared Calendars

[Christian Grobmeier]

>> But why not having a Calendar for all projects. One might be able to
>> filter for a specific project or event type, be it "release", "dinner"
>> or whatever. Other events would become a better visibility, like
>> Apache CON or a retreat
>
> I think this would be really good. However, I don't think we need to dictate
> where projects keep their calendar stuff. The starting point is for projects
> to select a solution that suits them and make us aware of an iCAL feed.
>
> ComDev can then create a calendar that imports these various feeds. Moving
> forwards we might provide a funky front end that allows feeds of certain
> types to be aggregated into a personal feed - but lets not get ahead of
> ourselves ;-)

Yes, sounds better.
Finally we "simply" would need an iCAL feed aggregator maybe similar
to planet.apache.org
Is the code for planet somehow extensible for this task? Might be a start

Christian

> So who is going to create the comdev feed and add Grants Lucene feed as a
> first one. I know ComDev have discussed having a calendar of events in the
> past, if we provide some visibility for it maybe we can actually make it
> worthwhile.
>
> Ross
>
>
>
>>
>> Christian
>>
>> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Grant Ingersoll
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm curious, do any projects have shared calendars?  For instance, the
>>> thought occurred to me that I might put up a Google Calendar for Lucene or
>>> Mahout that is public read-only, but committers have write control on it.
>>>  On the calendar, we could put things like potential release dates,
>>> reminders for PMC actions (such as review potential committers or do board
>>> reports).  Community members could submit "patches" for community related
>>> events such as conferences, meetups, hackathons, etc.
>>>
>>> -Grant
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> rgard...@apache.org
> @rgardler
>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de

Re: Shared Calendars

[Christian Grobmeier]

>> Yes, sounds better.
>> Finally we "simply" would need an iCAL feed aggregator maybe similar
>> to planet.apache.org
>> Is the code for planet somehow extensible for this task? Might be a start
>
> The python code behind PlanetApache is open source:
> http://www.intertwingly.net/code/venus/
>
> A search for "ical aggregator" turned up a simple looking python script:
> https://github.com/mhagander/icalaggregator (untested)

oh oh python... i am out.

But it looks interesting

Re: Attempting at sharing some lessons learned from Apache

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hi Yeliz,

> (or I can send you an invite if you prefer to edit from your account.)

that would be cool - would like to look at it. My account is my sender
address :-)

Cheers,
Christian

> I've only started recently, so it is still in a very draft version (Thus
> edits to the language and structure is also welcome, I get to re-edit my
> work many times befor I am satisfied)
>
> I am hoping to finalize it on Friday. However, if somebody wants to do some
> changes on it and needs a bit more time, do let me know.
>
> Take a look at the contents and see if what you were planning to write fits
> in this context, or if it would be something else. But still, perhaps it
> would be a good document for the community area.
> Cheers,
> Yeliz.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Thomas Koch  wrote:
>
>> Yeliz Eseryel:
>>
>> > I'd like to share the draft document with you to see what you think.
>> There's no attachement to the mail.
>>
>> I'll start to write a report for my university about two months of
>> programming
>> work with Apache ZooKeeper. I'll also include a section "ranting" about the
>> archaic development infrastructure (Subversion, Reviewboard compared to
>> Gerrit).
>> Another section could compare the Debian ethos of excellence with what I
>> would
>> call a spirit of "least effort" development in Apache.
>>
>> Would you be interested in this? Do you have a due date for your article?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Thomas Koch, http://www.koch.ro
>>
>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de

Re: Apache Extras Question

[Christian Grobmeier]

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Mark Struberg  wrote:
>> If you are saying this is compatible with ALv2 ? Then why use Apache
>> Extras instead of just the oodt SVN official repo in Apache ?
>
> But that's exactly the point! It is NOT ALv2 because it seems that Chris' 
> project compiles against GPL sources and thus also must be GPL licensed.
>
> Would it be possible to have it under the package org.apacheextras ?
> If we don't even allow that, then we can just close down apacheextras.org - 
> because then there is no use for it imo.

+1

Leads me to the question... if I fork an asf project on github and do
some work on it, am I required to change the org.apache namespace?
If no, third parties can release code with the apache namespace (and
they actually do) and then I ask myself why Chris should not be able
to use the namespace.

CHeers
Christian


>
> Of course this all implies that apacheextras will make a prominent mentioning 
> that apacheextras != ASF and apacheextras might not only contain ALv2 
> licensed sources but also others.
>
>
> LieGrue,
> strub
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>> From: Luciano Resende 
>> To: dev@community.apache.org
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 9:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: Apache Extras Question
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>>  wrote:
>>>  (removing community@ from the CC list; aren't we trying to kill that
>> thread?)
>>>
>>>  Hi Ross,
>>>
>>>  Thanks for replying. Comments below:
>>>
>>>  On Dec 29, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>>>  [...snip...]
>>>
  >
  > It's my understanding that anyone can start up a project at
>> Apache Extras,
  > in which case, if that person doesn't have an availid here at
>> the ASF, and
  > doesn't have an ICLA on file, then that's another
>> situation that I won't
  > speculate on. What I'm much more interested in is in the
>> situation I presented
  > within this thread. I have an availid. I am an ASF member. I was
>> looking
  > at Apache Extras as a place to share some Apache OODT plugins that
  > leverage code that is LGPL licensed, that I couldn't otherwise
>> share within
  > the normal Apache OODT SVN home. Prior to me coming to Apache
>> Extras,
  > this has been code housed in an internal JPL SVN repository for
>> years, even
  > before we brought the software to Apache. I'd like to use
>> Apache Extras to
  > facilitate sharing with an even broader community and to share the
>> plugins
  > we've developed (which themselves are ALv2 licensed) with
>> others.

  The ASF does not release code under any license other than the Apache
>> license,
>>>
>>>  Who asked to release the code? I just want an SVN to throw the code up at.
>>>  If you look at oodt-pushpull-plugins [1], the LICENSE.txt file is ALv2. The
>> code
>>>  we wrote (in Java) is ALv2. The code includes a runtime Maven2 dependency
>>>  on libraries that provide FTP protocol implementations (Ftp4Che [2] and
>> JvFtp [3])
>>>  that are LGPL licensed.
>>>
>>
>> If you are saying this is compatible with ALv2 ? Then why use Apache
>> Extras instead of just the oodt SVN official repo in Apache ?
>>
>> --
>> Luciano Resende
>> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
>> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
>> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de
https://www.timeandbill.de

Re: Apache Extras Question

[Christian Grobmeier]

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
 wrote:
> Hey Christian,
>
> On Dec 29, 2011, at 12:29 PM, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Mark Struberg  wrote:
>>>> If you are saying this is compatible with ALv2 ? Then why use Apache
>>>> Extras instead of just the oodt SVN official repo in Apache ?
>>>
>>> But that's exactly the point! It is NOT ALv2 because it seems that Chris' 
>>> project compiles against GPL sources and thus also must be GPL licensed.
>>>
>>> Would it be possible to have it under the package org.apacheextras ?
>>> If we don't even allow that, then we can just close down apacheextras.org - 
>>> because then there is no use for it imo.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Leads me to the question... if I fork an asf project on github and do
>> some work on it, am I required to change the org.apache namespace?
>> If no, third parties can release code with the apache namespace (and
>> they actually do) and then I ask myself why Chris should not be able
>> to use the namespace.
>
> Bingo! That's exactly what I was saying too, Christian. In my case, my "fork"
> existed even before the ASF Apache OODT "source" existed before we
> made a source code donation and brought the code to Apache via a Software
> Grant. The "fork" code still lives in the internal JPL repository but I would 
> like
> to share it with others, but I couldn't bring it through into the ASF Apache 
> OODT
> project (via JIRA + Software Grant + Patch/etc.) b/c I wouldn't want to do 
> that
> to our users, meaning, I wouldn't want to stick them with even a 
> runtime/downstream
> dependency on an LGPL project. So I've gone to great trouble to refactor the 
> code,
> make it its own project, and then make it a Plugin to CAS PushPull (it builds 
> to a jar
> that users can simply drop in to their PushPull deployment's ./lib directory).
>
> So, in this fashion, if users want to get these Push Pull plugins (if the 
> default
> implementations of the FTP protocol that we ship don't work for their FTP 
> sites),
> they can simply (I thought) go to Apache Extras, svn export the code, build 
> the
> plugin, and then drop the jar in their existing deployment.
>
> If users can't do that due to some effort by ComDev to "police" things that 
> IMHO
> aren't violations at all, then we aren't serving the ASF very well with 
> Apache Extras
> and it should be decommissioned.
>
> To avoid that nuclear option, I proposed 2 concrete suggestions and even 
> volunteered
> to work up a patch that implements the one with less sweeping change. IOW, I
> offered to put my money where my mouth was and do the work to update the docs.
>
> Sound good?

For me yes, but I am just a lurker on this list. But are you sure this
issue is apache-extras related? It boils down to: are other people
allowed to use the org.apache namespace or not. Maybe this is
trademark related? If others are not allowed, then many projects must
rename their spaces. if others are allowed, then there can not be such
a policy as "do not use org.a namespace" for apache-extras.

Probably you should include Shane too?

Cheers

>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
> ++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov
> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++
>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de
https://www.timeandbill.de

Re: Apache Extras Question

[Christian Grobmeier]

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Ross Gardler
 wrote:
> I did try, before sending the below mail, with the the accounts I have:
>
> rgard...@opendirective.com
> rgard...@apache.org
> ross.gard...@gmail.com
>
> I don't see any admin options.

Hm you should have?
http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/u/ross.gardler/


>
> Sent from my mobile device, please forgive errors and brevity.
> On Dec 30, 2011 3:11 PM, "Luciano Resende"  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 3:14 AM, Ross Gardler
>>  wrote:
>> > On 29 December 2011 20:50, Mark Struberg  wrote:
>> >>> they include runtime dependencies (via Maven2) on LGPL code.
>> >> Basically I like the apacheextras idea, but it _must_ be made clear >
>> that apacheextras has it's own rules which are _not_ ASF business.
>> >> The current http://apacheextras.org is really bad in this regard,
>> >> because it's just a redirect to google.code showing a plain page
>> >> with a few projects listed on it.
>> >
>> > I tend to agree. When setting up apache-extras with Google we were
>> > promised much more control than we actually have. I've not even been
>> > given admin access yet!
>> >
>> > We'd welcome anyone with a little time to open the dialog with Google
>> again.
>> >
>> > Ross
>>
>>
>> Could you please give it a try, I remember Google giving you admin
>> access, and I see your gmail address listed as admin.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Luciano Resende
>> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
>> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
>> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>>



-- 
http://www.grobmeier.de
https://www.timeandbill.de

Re: Anyone interested in initiating an ALC Frankfurt?

[Christian Grobmeier]

On Tue, Jul 11, 2023, at 14:56, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> Ok … so I guess there’s no real interest in such a thing.
>
> Probably creating an ALC Germany sort of sounds like a stupid idea … 
> one sort of contradicting the L in Local ;-)

Germany is very local for somebody living in a country like India :-)

Seriously, a ALC Germany, where the attendees of such conferences travel from 
city to city doesn't sound too bad for me. In cooperation with Java Usergroups 
this may work. I have done something similar with fellows for Apache Struts a 
few years back



>
> Chris
>
> Von: Richard Zowalla 
> Datum: Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2023 um 09:10
> An: dev@community.apache.org 
> Betreff: Re: Anyone interested in initiating an ALC Frankfurt?
> Hi Chris,
>
> for me, Frankfurt is (with a 2.5h train ride) a bit too far away but I
> might be able to occussionally lurk in ;-) - so I wouldn't be able to
> organize things, etc.
>
> Gruß from Heilbronn / Germany
> Richard
>
> Am Mittwoch, dem 14.06.2023 um 06:35 + schrieb Christofer Dutz:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I just wanted to bring forward the idea of initiating an ALC chapter
>> in Germany/Frankfurt.
>>
>> I noticed that many meetups near Frankfurt have shifted away from
>> reporting about real project, toward more theoretical content.
>> However, have I heard quite a few people that are a bit unhappy with
>> that.
>>
>> Having an ALC Frankfurt (or whatever we’d call it) would allow us to
>> promote our awesome Apache projects a bit more.
>>
>> I would even already have a place where we could regularly have such
>> meetings, as my former employer codecentric would be happy to
>> accommodate us.
>>
>> What do you folks think?
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
>
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Re: Anyone interested in initiating an ALC Frankfurt?

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hi,

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023, at 11:38, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> Hi Christian,
>
> Well, I thought of ALCs sort of something you know there’s one meeting 
> per month, every time about a different Apache Project … would sort of 
> require quite a bit of coordination more, I guess.
> With “Frankfurt” I could build up a list of companies willing to host 
> such an event … with “Germany” we’d sort of need to figure out: where 
> are the interest-groups located and where could we host the event.
>
> But … if you think this would be something worth trying. Happy to try it out.

Actually, I think it could work, but unfortunately, I have no time left to 
support such a thing.
Kind regards,
Christian

> Chris
>
> Von: Christian Grobmeier 
> Datum: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2023 um 22:05
> An: dev@community.apache.org 
> Betreff: Re: Anyone interested in initiating an ALC Frankfurt?
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2023, at 14:56, Christofer Dutz wrote:
>> Ok … so I guess there’s no real interest in such a thing.
>>
>> Probably creating an ALC Germany sort of sounds like a stupid idea …
>> one sort of contradicting the L in Local ;-)
>
> Germany is very local for somebody living in a country like India :-)
>
> Seriously, a ALC Germany, where the attendees of such conferences 
> travel from city to city doesn't sound too bad for me. In cooperation 
> with Java Usergroups this may work. I have done something similar with 
> fellows for Apache Struts a few years back
>
>
>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Von: Richard Zowalla 
>> Datum: Mittwoch, 14. Juni 2023 um 09:10
>> An: dev@community.apache.org 
>> Betreff: Re: Anyone interested in initiating an ALC Frankfurt?
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> for me, Frankfurt is (with a 2.5h train ride) a bit too far away but I
>> might be able to occussionally lurk in ;-) - so I wouldn't be able to
>> organize things, etc.
>>
>> Gruß from Heilbronn / Germany
>> Richard
>>
>> Am Mittwoch, dem 14.06.2023 um 06:35 + schrieb Christofer Dutz:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I just wanted to bring forward the idea of initiating an ALC chapter
>>> in Germany/Frankfurt.
>>>
>>> I noticed that many meetups near Frankfurt have shifted away from
>>> reporting about real project, toward more theoretical content.
>>> However, have I heard quite a few people that are a bit unhappy with
>>> that.
>>>
>>> Having an ALC Frankfurt (or whatever we’d call it) would allow us to
>>> promote our awesome Apache projects a bit more.
>>>
>>> I would even already have a place where we could regularly have such
>>> meetings, as my former employer codecentric would be happy to
>>> accommodate us.
>>>
>>> What do you folks think?
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>
>>
>> -
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>
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Re: Skill based groups at the ASF

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hi

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023, at 20:01, Drew Foulks wrote:
> Hi All!
>
> I'd like to submit an idea for an effort that I'd like to undertake / see
> undertaken here at the foundation -- I've taken to calling them guilds for
> lack of a better name, which are essentially project independent expert
> groups that help in a specific capacity (builds, writing, websites, etc) to
> help elevate solutions from the TLP level to the Foundation level.
>
> Feedback is appreciated.

I love this idea. I was often thinking "I would like to do $x" but did not know 
what project would need this skill at this point. This could be fun.

Christian

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Re: [DISCUSS] Create a new repo for website template

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hello,

I love we are picking up this template idea again.

Previously I proposed to add some Docker files to help with quick setup.
I could add this straightaway to the Jekyll branch.

Does this sound like a good idea?

It could look like what I did for Privacy:
https://github.com/apache/privacy-website

Please let me know, then I will add it (or forget about it)

Kind regards,
Christian

On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, at 23:38, Willem Jiang wrote:
> From my recent experience, it could save the developer lots of time if
> they can work on the website's content by adding some markdown files
> directly.
> Following the website policy and turning the features of the website
> engine are one-time work. The ROI would be good if we could share
> these through the website template.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Willem Jiang
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 8:20 PM tison  wrote:
>>
>> > And/or just point to the source code of existing ASF websites which
>> > can serve as living examples.
>>
>> You can check the original mailing list thread [1]. I recommend Fury as an
>> example there because it's just started. Living examples can be supplements
>> but customized a lot to prevent new podlings from catching up.
>>
>> This is my initial motivation to create a template and even self-contained
>> docs to share how to switch features while being compliant with ASF
>> policies :D
>>
>> Best,
>> tison.
>>
>> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/nzzvz0j6mlgfn4pldxg6988oqw20b0bx
>>
>>
>> Bertrand Delacretaz  于2024年2月20日周二 19:32写道：
>>
>> > On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 10:45 AM Daniel Gruno 
>> > wrote:
>> > > ...Just use the existing website-template repository, have the
>> > > default branch be an empty branch with a README that tells you what the
>> > > different examples are, each in their own branch or directory...
>> >
>> > And/or just point to the source code of existing ASF websites which
>> > can serve as living examples.
>> >
>> > And encourage people to add GitHub topics to their website
>> > repositories, so that queries like
>> >
>> > https://github.com/search?q=topic%3Ahugo+org%3Aapache&type=Repositories
>> >
>> > can give you a list of real live examples that use your favorite
>> > website generation tool, "hugo" in this example.
>> >
>> > -Bertrand
>> >
>> > -
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Create a new repo for website template

[Christian Grobmeier]

Hi

On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, at 17:06, Dave Fisher wrote:
> Hi Tison,
>
> Some future ideas.
>
> (1) The web templates - html, js, css, and fonts are likely to be 
> similar between the branches. (Well not all the js that docusaurus 
> produces, but the site design will be similar.) This could lead to a 
> branch with multiple designs. The question is what template language is 
> used by docusaurus and jekyl? JINJA2?

Jekyll uses Liquid, Docusaurus uses a JSX like thing. I never used it, but it 
is basically a React application that is rendered to static files.
I don’t think templates can be reused

Kind regards
Christian

>
> (2) Once those two examples are complete. I think that an ASF Pelican 
> example can be done as well. There are a number of examples like 
> apache.org, http.apache.org, etc.
>
> I’m following along and will have a look later on.
>
> Best,
> Dave
>
>> On Feb 21, 2024, at 1:43 AM, tison  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>> Thanks you. Now we found a volunteer to improve the jekyll template and
>> it's good :D
>> 
>> Daniel wrote:
>>> This feels like we are over-engineering the solution to a simple
>>> problem. Just use the existing website-template repository, have the
>>> default branch be an empty branch with a README that tells you what the
>>> different examples are, each in their own branch or directory.
>> 
>> I'm OK with this. And it seems a solution that no direct reasonable
>> objection.
>> 
>> Although Sebb comments in the other thread [1] that such a Rip Down commit
>> can be suboptimal due to the irrelevant history, with INFRA's help we can
>> use a brand new README branch and make it the default.
>> 
>> I'm going to move forward with the development in docusaurus branch and
>> recommend Chris to send the patch against the jekyll branch (I'll review it
>> if you need).
>> 
>> For the master branch tech solution, I'm fine to wait a minutes to rip it
>> down, switch with a brand new history, or any other suggestions.
>> 
>> Best,
>> tison.
>> 
>> [1]
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/jjmb1jnl67rr5qnhdb047tms9ksd0yqq
>> 
>> 
>> Christian Grobmeier 于2024年2月21日 周三16:07写道：
>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> I love we are picking up this template idea again.
>>> 
>>> Previously I proposed to add some Docker files to help with quick setup.
>>> I could add this straightaway to the Jekyll branch.
>>> 
>>> Does this sound like a good idea?
>>> 
>>> It could look like what I did for Privacy:
>>> https://github.com/apache/privacy-website
>>> 
>>> Please let me know, then I will add it (or forget about it)
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Christian
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, at 23:38, Willem Jiang wrote:
>>>> From my recent experience, it could save the developer lots of time if
>>>> they can work on the website's content by adding some markdown files
>>>> directly.
>>>> Following the website policy and turning the features of the website
>>>> engine are one-time work. The ROI would be good if we could share
>>>> these through the website template.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Willem Jiang
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 8:20 PM tison  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> And/or just point to the source code of existing ASF websites which
>>>>>> can serve as living examples.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You can check the original mailing list thread [1]. I recommend Fury as
>>> an
>>>>> example there because it's just started. Living examples can be
>>> supplements
>>>>> but customized a lot to prevent new podlings from catching up.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is my initial motivation to create a template and even
>>> self-contained
>>>>> docs to share how to switch features while being compliant with ASF
>>>>> policies :D
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> tison.
>>>>> 
>>>>> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/nzzvz0j6mlgfn4pldxg6988oqw20b0bx
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bertrand Delacretaz  于2024年2月20日周二 19:32写道：
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 10:45 AM Daniel Gruno 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> ...Just use the existing website-template reposit

Re: [DISCUSS] Create a new repo for website template

[Christian Grobmeier]

On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, at 10:43, tison wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> Thanks you. Now we found a volunteer to improve the jekyll template and
> it's good :D

Haha ok great, I will send a patch as suggested. I can also commit directly if 
this repo is using CTR


>
> Daniel wrote:
>> This feels like we are over-engineering the solution to a simple
>> problem. Just use the existing website-template repository, have the
>> default branch be an empty branch with a README that tells you what the
>> different examples are, each in their own branch or directory.
>
> I'm OK with this. And it seems a solution that no direct reasonable
> objection.
>
> Although Sebb comments in the other thread [1] that such a Rip Down commit
> can be suboptimal due to the irrelevant history, with INFRA's help we can
> use a brand new README branch and make it the default.
>
> I'm going to move forward with the development in docusaurus branch and
> recommend Chris to send the patch against the jekyll branch (I'll review it
> if you need).
>
> For the master branch tech solution, I'm fine to wait a minutes to rip it
> down, switch with a brand new history, or any other suggestions.
>
> Best,
> tison.
>
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/jjmb1jnl67rr5qnhdb047tms9ksd0yqq
>
>
> Christian Grobmeier 于2024年2月21日 周三16:07写道：
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I love we are picking up this template idea again.
>>
>> Previously I proposed to add some Docker files to help with quick setup.
>> I could add this straightaway to the Jekyll branch.
>>
>> Does this sound like a good idea?
>>
>> It could look like what I did for Privacy:
>> https://github.com/apache/privacy-website
>>
>> Please let me know, then I will add it (or forget about it)
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Christian
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, at 23:38, Willem Jiang wrote:
>> > From my recent experience, it could save the developer lots of time if
>> > they can work on the website's content by adding some markdown files
>> > directly.
>> > Following the website policy and turning the features of the website
>> > engine are one-time work. The ROI would be good if we could share
>> > these through the website template.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Willem Jiang
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 8:20 PM tison  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > And/or just point to the source code of existing ASF websites which
>> >> > can serve as living examples.
>> >>
>> >> You can check the original mailing list thread [1]. I recommend Fury as
>> an
>> >> example there because it's just started. Living examples can be
>> supplements
>> >> but customized a lot to prevent new podlings from catching up.
>> >>
>> >> This is my initial motivation to create a template and even
>> self-contained
>> >> docs to share how to switch features while being compliant with ASF
>> >> policies :D
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >> tison.
>> >>
>> >> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/nzzvz0j6mlgfn4pldxg6988oqw20b0bx
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Bertrand Delacretaz  于2024年2月20日周二 19:32写道：
>> >>
>> >> > On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 10:45 AM Daniel Gruno 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > > ...Just use the existing website-template repository, have the
>> >> > > default branch be an empty branch with a README that tells you what
>> the
>> >> > > different examples are, each in their own branch or directory...
>> >> >
>> >> > And/or just point to the source code of existing ASF websites which
>> >> > can serve as living examples.
>> >> >
>> >> > And encourage people to add GitHub topics to their website
>> >> > repositories, so that queries like
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> https://github.com/search?q=topic%3Ahugo+org%3Aapache&type=Repositories
>> >> >
>> >> > can give you a list of real live examples that use your favorite
>> >> > website generation tool, "hugo" in this example.
>> >> >
>> >> > -Bertrand
>> >> >
>> >> > -
>> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
>> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
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Re: missing commit stats for a few projects

[Christian Grobmeier]

Probably this it a case for the new VP tooling?
I doubt many people are interested in building software for internal use. Look 
at Pony Mail 

--
The Apache Software Foundation
V.P., Data Privacy

On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, at 15:17, Mark Struberg wrote:
> Hi Rich!
>
> I totally understand that notion.But there is apparently not exactly 
> much to contribute tohttps://github.com/apache/comdev-reporter
> After some time of digging I found that the sources are still 
> maintained 
> inhttps://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/reporter.apache.org/trunkbut 
> apparently the sync to git doesn't work?
>
> There are people like me who already contribute to about a dozen ASF 
> projects.And yes, I'm also willing to help out with one more IF I know 
> the technology stack. Means if it's programmed in some language I'm 
> fluent (Java and C, C++ mostly). Trying to dig into it, but I'm not 
> sure if I'm much of a help in that mixture of js and python. And I've 
> not the slightest clue about that kibble tool yet.
>
> LieGrue,strub
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 13 October 2024 at 14:54:37 CEST, Rich Bowen 
>  wrote:  
> 
>  On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 5:32 AM Mark Struberg 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> It seems that the commit statistics on the reporter.a.o pages do not work
>> anymore?
>> https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics?openjpa
>> and
>> https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics?openwebbeans
>>
>> show zero commits but this is actually not true.
>> Is there anything on our side we can do?
>>
>
> I feel like the most important thing we can do is get more people towards
> an understanding of how the reporter tool works so that it's not just on
> one or two individuals to resuscitate it when things go down.
>
> Perhaps what we need is more visibility into the fact that this is a
> volunteer driven tool and that contributions are welcome from everyone. In
> the long ago, projects would pitch in to infrastructure stuff that was not
> officially supported and this kind of falls into that same category.
>
> My impression is that almost every time this happens with reporter, the fix
> is quick and easy, but that only a handful of people know how to do it. Can
> we try to spread that knowledge a little bit?
>
>>

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Re: missing commit stats for a few projects

[Christian Grobmeier]

On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, at 19:23, Gilles Sadowski wrote:
> Le dim. 13 oct. 2024 à 16:28, Rich Bowen  a écrit :
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 10:16 AM Gilles Sadowski  wrote:
>>
>> > Le dim. 13 oct. 2024 à 15:25, Christian Grobmeier
>> >  a écrit :
>> > >
>> > > Probably this it a case for the new VP tooling?
>> > > I doubt many people are interested in building software for internal
>> > use. Look at Pony Mail
>> >
>> > Why are some tools (only) for internal use?
>> > Somewhat conversely, why is such a tool preferred over a widely used one?
>> >
>>
>> Because there isn't one.
>
> If "PonyMail" is the only one of its kind, why isn't everyone using it
> (and gathering here to maintain it)?

PonyMail is literally "lists.apache.org". Only a few organizations use mailing 
lists like we do, so only we use the tool. 
The reporting tool also matches almost exactly ASF's needs. Others may use 
tools from Bitergia, etc.
Fame and glory come to those doing high-profile projects, but nobody recognizes 
foundation work. I assume that this is why only a few sign up to maintain the 
foundation's needed tools.
I might be wrong though, but this is how I feel about it.

>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] -- Hackernews style social media / blog site for planet apache

[Christian Grobmeier]

I have built a very similar tool (rss feeds -> aggregation -> commit in git).
I used the committed yaml to generate a Jekyll page

If you want to look at the source please let me know. Bit old and php, but 
should work

--
The Apache Software Foundation
V.P., Data Privacy

On Thu, Sep 26, 2024, at 18:31, Drew Foulks wrote:
> I've been scrounging for some examples and the two solutions I've 
> looked at (and liked) are lemmy (see https://linux.community) and 
> lobste.rs (see https://lobste.rs). both of these solutions make the 
> source very clear. 
>
> I'll absolutely add that to the list of requirements for a solution
>
> On 2024/09/26 12:50:58 sebb wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Sept 2024 at 12:37, Drew Foulks  wrote:
>> >
>> > Bertrand,
>> >
>> > first and foremost -- I do *not* intend this message board replace lists.
>> >
>> > Just looking to aggregate and organize content and also provide a 
>> > (limited) forum in which to discuss it.
>> 
>> Seems to me that aggregation and organisation of content would be
>> fine, so long as it is clear how to find the original source(s) are
>> for each item.
>> 
>> However even limited discussion has the potential to add yet more
>> sources of information and potential misinformation.
>> 
>> >
>> > On 2024/09/26 07:15:36 Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 12:07 AM Drew Foulks  wrote:
>> > > > ...I'd like to pitch the idea of reviving a planet apache of sorts as 
>> > > > a reddit
>> > > > / hackernews / lobste.rs style message board. ...
>> > >
>> > > Do you see this as a potential replacement for this list for example,
>> > > or something else?
>> > >
>> > > I think Planet Apache was just a blog aggregator, back in the days,
>> > > but it looks like you're speaking about a service where conversations
>> > > can happen.
>> > >
>> > > -Bertrand
>> > >
>> > > -
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>> > >
>> > >
>> >
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Re: [wg-website] Proposed front page change

[Christian Grobmeier]

This is a BIG move forward, excellent
So much better than the current

On Wed, Nov 6, 2024, at 16:31, Rich Bowen wrote:
> Before I spend a lot more time on this, what do y’all think of something like:
>
> https://boxofclue.com/community.a.o.proposed.png
>
> That is replacing each of those awful boxes of text with an image 
> linked to the relevant part of the site where all of that information 
> resides.
>
> Not a designer, but tired of the status quo of our awful site.
>
> — 
> Rich Bowen
> rbo...@rcbowen.com

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Re: Request for Deletion of Personal Information for Apache Software Foundation; Request #3217888

[Christian Grobmeier]

Dear Tamara White,

Thanks for reaching out.

The Apache Software Foundation (ASF) is a nonprofit open-source community. We 
don’t sell software, provide services, or collect user data. After checking our 
records, we don’t have any account associated with your email address.

If you believe we hold your data, please clarify why you think this is the 
case. ASF projects are freely available, and participation in public mailing 
lists is voluntary.

If you have more details to share, feel free to contact us at 
priv...@apache.org.

Best,
Christian Grobmeier
VP, Data Privacy
Apache Software Foundation

--
The Apache Software Foundation
V.P., Data Privacy

On Wed, Jan 15, 2025, at 21:13, whitetamara...@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Sir/Madam,
> I am contacting you about the personal information your company, Apache
> Software Foundation, collects, stores, uses, discloses, sells and/or
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> Background
> I previously registered with your company or my personal information was
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> on the privacy practices outlined in your privacy policy, personal
> information you have collected from or about me has been and/or is
> currently stored, used, disclosed, sold and/or processed by your company. I
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> Request for Deletion of Personal Information
>
>1. I request that you erase from all systems, servers, and backups any
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>2. Following the completion of the above requests, please provide
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>*.
>
> Please direct any further communication connected to this request to
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> *.
>  src="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoNSUhEUgAAAPUAAABGCAYU79K+CXBIWXMAAAWJAAAFiQFtaJ36AXNSR0IArs4c6QRnQU1BAACxjwv8YQUAABm5SURBVHgB7V1Pctu40m9STmp2n+YEjznByJan6u2GOcFT1t/C8gkmOUGcE4xzAtGLtx7nBGF2qZrY8TtBmBM8zW7KEwkP3Q2QIAmApETZssNflWyJBEmQRKMb/TeAu8JkMcG/cBD8BALG9B3/B/R9XGm9lPuWcl9G3/H/WnyFNdzI3zdwc7qEAQMGWBHArjBZxBCGv0AgYvwFdcJlCCJc7AkSKhJzpH5HnrPfyP0pfBPvJIGnMGDAgBz9EjUS8kHwL0mYc6gTseSy4oPcdwMj+izh42nWcL4xHCiODhDL7v7E/0vAyeASVuJiIPABA/ogaiS8UBJxIIm5TnCMUBzCH6c30AfweqNgIb/NLHszEOKNFNNTSeAZDBjwHWJzoiZiDn+V4vVLMLkyitOh5Jrf4Fxy2ZcggteAxLYSz3shtOlCEnPwO6251/KcoeTkQfArsIivIYk7SGC9vhiIe8D3hs2ImgnrN/ktyrfR2lhyyevTpNT2eHGWE3YoXmzFsVHZNgrey2sBEfSNca5jKfrzdWLjCObc1T4NGPCI0Y2oJ4tIib5xvg05ZigJ59PpufO4grDl+jd4CVcnF9AVPoI2cbSYy2u8rija+pMUBgzYc4StWyJ3HgWfocwJU0lgh16CRgjQBCjFdJFIwnsJXaAJGo/3ETQCuTL2CcRbYytORl/g6OI1DBjwy

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