Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
Because Apache style mailing lists are an artifact of a past age. There just aren't projects or foundations using mailing lists the way we do any more. That's probably an overly simplistic answer but it also appears to be a true one. On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 1:17 PM Gilles Sadowski wrote: > > > > Somewhat conversely, why is such a tool preferred over a widely used > one? > > > > > > > Because there isn't one. > > If "PonyMail" is the only one of its kind, why isn't everyone using it > (and gathering here to maintain it)? > > >
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
Probably this it a case for the new VP tooling? I doubt many people are interested in building software for internal use. Look at Pony Mail -- The Apache Software Foundation V.P., Data Privacy On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, at 15:17, Mark Struberg wrote: > Hi Rich! > > I totally understand that notion.But there is apparently not exactly > much to contribute tohttps://github.com/apache/comdev-reporter > After some time of digging I found that the sources are still > maintained > inhttps://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/reporter.apache.org/trunkbut > apparently the sync to git doesn't work? > > There are people like me who already contribute to about a dozen ASF > projects.And yes, I'm also willing to help out with one more IF I know > the technology stack. Means if it's programmed in some language I'm > fluent (Java and C, C++ mostly). Trying to dig into it, but I'm not > sure if I'm much of a help in that mixture of js and python. And I've > not the slightest clue about that kibble tool yet. > > LieGrue,strub > > > > On Sunday, 13 October 2024 at 14:54:37 CEST, Rich Bowen > wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 5:32 AM Mark Struberg > wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> It seems that the commit statistics on the reporter.a.o pages do not work >> anymore? >> https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics?openjpa >> and >> https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics?openwebbeans >> >> show zero commits but this is actually not true. >> Is there anything on our side we can do? >> > > I feel like the most important thing we can do is get more people towards > an understanding of how the reporter tool works so that it's not just on > one or two individuals to resuscitate it when things go down. > > Perhaps what we need is more visibility into the fact that this is a > volunteer driven tool and that contributions are welcome from everyone. In > the long ago, projects would pitch in to infrastructure stuff that was not > officially supported and this kind of falls into that same category. > > My impression is that almost every time this happens with reporter, the fix > is quick and easy, but that only a handful of people know how to do it. Can > we try to spread that knowledge a little bit? > >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
Hi Rich! I totally understand that notion.But there is apparently not exactly much to contribute tohttps://github.com/apache/comdev-reporter After some time of digging I found that the sources are still maintained inhttps://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/reporter.apache.org/trunkbut apparently the sync to git doesn't work? There are people like me who already contribute to about a dozen ASF projects.And yes, I'm also willing to help out with one more IF I know the technology stack. Means if it's programmed in some language I'm fluent (Java and C, C++ mostly). Trying to dig into it, but I'm not sure if I'm much of a help in that mixture of js and python. And I've not the slightest clue about that kibble tool yet. LieGrue,strub On Sunday, 13 October 2024 at 14:54:37 CEST, Rich Bowen wrote: On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 5:32 AM Mark Struberg wrote: > Hi! > > It seems that the commit statistics on the reporter.a.o pages do not work > anymore? > https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics?openjpa > and > https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics?openwebbeans > > show zero commits but this is actually not true. > Is there anything on our side we can do? > I feel like the most important thing we can do is get more people towards an understanding of how the reporter tool works so that it's not just on one or two individuals to resuscitate it when things go down. Perhaps what we need is more visibility into the fact that this is a volunteer driven tool and that contributions are welcome from everyone. In the long ago, projects would pitch in to infrastructure stuff that was not officially supported and this kind of falls into that same category. My impression is that almost every time this happens with reporter, the fix is quick and easy, but that only a handful of people know how to do it. Can we try to spread that knowledge a little bit? >
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
Le dim. 13 oct. 2024 à 15:25, Christian Grobmeier a écrit : > > Probably this it a case for the new VP tooling? > I doubt many people are interested in building software for internal use. > Look at Pony Mail Why are some tools (only) for internal use? Somewhat conversely, why is such a tool preferred over a widely used one? Gilles >> [...] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 10:16 AM Gilles Sadowski wrote: > Le dim. 13 oct. 2024 à 15:25, Christian Grobmeier > a écrit : > > > > Probably this it a case for the new VP tooling? > > I doubt many people are interested in building software for internal > use. Look at Pony Mail > > Why are some tools (only) for internal use? > Somewhat conversely, why is such a tool preferred over a widely used one? > Because there isn't one.
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 9:20 AM Mark Struberg wrote: > Hi Rich! > > I totally understand that notion.But there is apparently not exactly much > to contribute tohttps://github.com/apache/comdev-reporter > After some time of digging I found that the sources are still maintained > inhttps://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/reporter.apache.org/trunkbut > apparently the sync to git doesn't work? > > There are people like me who already contribute to about a dozen ASF > projects.And yes, I'm also willing to help out with one more IF I know the > technology stack. Means if it's programmed in some language I'm fluent > (Java and C, C++ mostly). Trying to dig into it, but I'm not sure if I'm > much of a help in that mixture of js and python. And I've not the slightest > clue about that kibble tool yet. > True. Good point. Fwiw the answer seems almost always to be "I rebooted/restarted something" when this happens, rather than code changes.
missing commit stats for a few projects
Hi! It seems that the commit statistics on the reporter.a.o pages do not work anymore? https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics?openjpa and https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics?openwebbeans show zero commits but this is actually not true. Is there anything on our side we can do? txs and LieGrue, strub
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
Le dim. 13 oct. 2024 à 16:28, Rich Bowen a écrit : > > On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 10:16 AM Gilles Sadowski wrote: > > > Le dim. 13 oct. 2024 à 15:25, Christian Grobmeier > > a écrit : > > > > > > Probably this it a case for the new VP tooling? > > > I doubt many people are interested in building software for internal > > use. Look at Pony Mail > > > > Why are some tools (only) for internal use? > > Somewhat conversely, why is such a tool preferred over a widely used one? > > > > Because there isn't one. If "PonyMail" is the only one of its kind, why isn't everyone using it (and gathering here to maintain it)? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
Maybe a footer link on the site "Not what you expected?" to a FAQ? Gary On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 8:55 AM Rich Bowen wrote: > On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 5:32 AM Mark Struberg > wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > It seems that the commit statistics on the reporter.a.o pages do not work > > anymore? > > https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics?openjpa > > and > > https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics?openwebbeans > > > > show zero commits but this is actually not true. > > Is there anything on our side we can do? > > > > I feel like the most important thing we can do is get more people towards > an understanding of how the reporter tool works so that it's not just on > one or two individuals to resuscitate it when things go down. > > Perhaps what we need is more visibility into the fact that this is a > volunteer driven tool and that contributions are welcome from everyone. In > the long ago, projects would pitch in to infrastructure stuff that was not > officially supported and this kind of falls into that same category. > > My impression is that almost every time this happens with reporter, the fix > is quick and easy, but that only a handful of people know how to do it. Can > we try to spread that knowledge a little bit? > > > >
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 5:32 AM Mark Struberg wrote: > Hi! > > It seems that the commit statistics on the reporter.a.o pages do not work > anymore? > https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics?openjpa > and > https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics?openwebbeans > > show zero commits but this is actually not true. > Is there anything on our side we can do? > I feel like the most important thing we can do is get more people towards an understanding of how the reporter tool works so that it's not just on one or two individuals to resuscitate it when things go down. Perhaps what we need is more visibility into the fact that this is a volunteer driven tool and that contributions are welcome from everyone. In the long ago, projects would pitch in to infrastructure stuff that was not officially supported and this kind of falls into that same category. My impression is that almost every time this happens with reporter, the fix is quick and easy, but that only a handful of people know how to do it. Can we try to spread that knowledge a little bit? >
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
> > > Except that every single time this comes up i beg people to volunteer and > help. Here's me, going that again. > This is exactly the point I want to make. Those tools, board and the tooling person position of ours should not "beg" for it. They should find creative ways to make it happen. The example I gave - nobody told me to do it this way, I had no idea if it is going to work, or how to do it. Previously I followed the same pattern - I begged for help and it did not work. Until I took it into my own hands - not to "do it" but to "make it happen" by thinking and executing what I thought might work. And I keep on being engaged, active and encouraging and helping. Just saying "it needs to happen" is simply not going to fix it. And I am not telling at all you should do it personally Rich - I think it's generally board and VP tooling task to make it happen - for example by hiring the right person who will have their own ideas and initiative to come with ideas that even the board does not have. This is a bit the same as our discussion we had at Community Over Code - this is not about hiring "developer" or "administrative assistant", those names are wrong IMHO. It's about hiring a "leader" who will make it happen and who will find creative ways on how to engage the ASF community to help. > The underlying problem here is that people expect this to be a "supported" > service and it's just not. It never has been. > Yes. That's the same feeling I have, but if we actually manage to find the right leader who will take it in their own hands and will engage more of the community - those engaged people will become the "support team". > > This is a hugely important perspective and we should be sure that it gets > injected into the discussion of that position. I don't think this point has > been made. And that is a skill that isn't necessary going to be part of the > skill set of a tools engineer. > I thought my message in this thread is doing exactly this - bringing the perspective, and I hope those who see it will bring it to other discussions that I am not aware of and not involved in. But if you think I should present my perspective elsewhere, I am happy to do it. This is pretty much the same thing - I just do not know where and how - since I am not really involved or maybe not sure which conversations are taking place where. But if you guide me and help me to do it well, I am happy to present my perspective elsewhere. This was partially the reason I "complained" (which was really not the case and I explained it to Bob in our in-person discussion) on not being informed when I helped to kick off funding discussion and got the ASF into discussion about funding. I have not heard back for 2 months, I was not sure what happened and I was not involved in the discussions. Even now after being at Community Over Code and taking part in in-person discussions (with multiple people) and even talking several times about this very perspective of mine, I am not sure what to do next to make my perspective more "visible". But if I can be guided by anyone, I am absolutely happy to be involved in discussions there. J.
Re: [Marketing] Open Source India 2024
Rich On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 10:51 AM Aditya Sharma wrote: > Hello team, > > We are participating in the Open Source India meetup[1] as > community/supporting partners (we will have a booth as well), and we > generally promote the event and our participation via our media > channels. > Who is "we" in this sentence? > We would like to request the M&P team to help us promote our > participation via the main ASF media channels. > > Here are some quick links to their social media accounts > https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/open-source-india/ > https://twitter.com/opensourceforu > > We could mention that community passes are free for the event > > P.S. The event is scheduled around 2 weeks from now on 23-24 October 2024. > > Looking forward to hearing from you soon! > > [1] https://www.opensourceindia.in/ > > Thanks and Regards > Aditya Sharma > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
> I'm actually not sure where the discussion of the requirements for a tooling position is happening. I just know it's not here. Maybe someone else in this discussion can help with that then. On Sun, Oct 13, 2024 at 5:27 PM Rich Bowen wrote: > On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 11:03 AM Jarek Potiuk wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a hugely important perspective and we should be sure that it > gets > > > injected into the discussion of that position. I don't think this point > > has > > > been made. And that is a skill that isn't necessary going to be part of > > the > > > skill set of a tools engineer. > > > > > > > I thought my message in this thread is doing exactly this - bringing the > > perspective, and I hope those who see it will bring it to other > discussions > > that I am not aware of and not involved in. But if you think I should > > present > > my perspective elsewhere, I am happy to do it. > > > > I'm actually not sure where the discussion of the requirements for a > tooling position is happening. I just know it's not here. >
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 11:03 AM Jarek Potiuk wrote: > > > > > > > > This is a hugely important perspective and we should be sure that it gets > > injected into the discussion of that position. I don't think this point > has > > been made. And that is a skill that isn't necessary going to be part of > the > > skill set of a tools engineer. > > > > I thought my message in this thread is doing exactly this - bringing the > perspective, and I hope those who see it will bring it to other discussions > that I am not aware of and not involved in. But if you think I should > present > my perspective elsewhere, I am happy to do it. > I'm actually not sure where the discussion of the requirements for a tooling position is happening. I just know it's not here.
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 10:31 AM Jarek Potiuk wrote: > > > a) where is the repo in the first place? > b) do I know the technology stack ? > c) how do I build the project ? > d) how do I unit test it ? > e) how do I make sure things get deployed in a way the whole ASF is not > impacted heavily (this one is a REALLY big blocker) ? > f) is there a good "contributing guide" I can follow > g) whom can I ask if I have a question / am stuck? > h) can I be sure to get answers quickly when I ask for help (because > otherwise I might get quickly discouraged) ? > These are the right questions. We should start working towards answering them prominently on the reporter site. Notably almost every time this comes up - which is roughly every other month - I provide links to #1. Then someone steps up and fixes the immediate problem and it's resolved for another month or so, so people stop thinking about it > > All that is usually maintained when you have a project when there are many > regularly engaged people and they "want" to get more contributions. But > when it comes to such infrastructure projects - at some point they reach a > "stable" state where problems happen rarely (which is always the case when > such a tool is generally doing its job well), and the a) - h) obstacles > make people not even think they could volunteer and help. > Except that every single time this comes up i beg people to volunteer and help. Here's me, going that again. The underlying problem here is that people expect this to be a "supported" service and it's just not. It never has been. > And this is where Rich's comment is very right "we should get more people > involved regularly" - but it does not look like we have a good idea on how > to do it and most importantly people who "know" about the tools do not do > it proactively. Thinking that it will "just happen if we complain we need > it, is a bit of a magic way of thinking. > Yep. This right here. > > > If you ask me - this is the absolutely most important task for a person > that we hire as the "tools" person. ... > Their role should not be to fix > things, but organize the work and make sure they are engaging and actively > reaching and finding creative ways of making ASF people contribute. > This is a hugely important perspective and we should be sure that it gets injected into the discussion of that position. I don't think this point has been made. And that is a skill that isn't necessary going to be part of the skill set of a tools engineer.
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
> I doubt many people are interested in building software for internal use. Look at Pony Mail I think this nails it as the root cause of the problem. This is always the thing where people expect the "common infrastructure tool" to "just work" - when it does, they have absolutely no reason to learn and be more involved with, but when it stops working, it's very difficult to get engaged and understand how to help, because you have to overcome the first few obstacles: a) where is the repo in the first place? b) do I know the technology stack ? c) how do I build the project ? d) how do I unit test it ? e) how do I make sure things get deployed in a way the whole ASF is not impacted heavily (this one is a REALLY big blocker) ? f) is there a good "contributing guide" I can follow g) whom can I ask if I have a question / am stuck? h) can I be sure to get answers quickly when I ask for help (because otherwise I might get quickly discouraged) ? All that is usually maintained when you have a project when there are many regularly engaged people and they "want" to get more contributions. But when it comes to such infrastructure projects - at some point they reach a "stable" state where problems happen rarely (which is always the case when such a tool is generally doing its job well), and the a) - h) obstacles make people not even think they could volunteer and help. And this is where Rich's comment is very right "we should get more people involved regularly" - but it does not look like we have a good idea on how to do it and most importantly people who "know" about the tools do not do it proactively. Thinking that it will "just happen if we complain we need it, is a bit of a magic way of thinking. As a constructive comment - I can share my own experiences with our CI in Airflow. For a long time (years) I was the only person that knew how it worked, and getting anyone else to help was next to impossible. When something broke the most engagement I could have was "this does not work, I am blocked" kind of response. Very similar to that one. And it became a big problem after some time, I also learned (from Rich I think in one of the messages I saw) that the most important thing as a maintainer is to make sure there is a succession plan in place and that you engage others. So I took it in my own hands - and turned my efforts from "fixing it" into "planning succession and guiding others" - I largely stopped fixing things, I explicitly reached out for help on our devlist and "dev call" discussions we had for Airflow 3 and I got 5 (!) volunteers who were eager to help (but did not know how to start). I used the targeted sponsorship money we had from Bloomberg to organize in-person workshop [1] after our in-person Airflow Summit (including a very nice breakfast) where we sat together and went through the first initial hoops, I explained people how things work, responded to questions and generally made sure they are set for success - and I went for 2 weeks holidays and announced "no communication with me". I also turned the problems I knew into well described and organized issues to work on [2]. We also got a slack channel where we invited everyone interested and started discussing some issues. It worked miracles. Not only those people got engaged and eagerly fixed some of those, but also others got engaged - and got help from those people I "trained" - so we now have a much bigger team of people actively looking and contributing there - and rather than fixing problems myself, I rather encourage and help them to handle those problems. I only "do stuff" when things get really complex - but even then I spend more time on explaining what's going on to others and getting feedback on my proposed changes, than on the changes themselves. But I also make sure I am there now after holidays to help and guide them for the more complex stuff - and that sped up things and got those people engaged even more. If you ask me - this is the absolutely most important task for a person that we hire as the "tools" person. There is no way such a person can single-handedly handle all the tools we have. This is a bit of a dream-pipe if we think this will happen, and for such a person that would be a straight recipe for burn-out if they are tasked with "fixing all the problems the ASF has with the tools". Their role should not be to fix things, but organize the work and make sure they are engaging and actively reaching and finding creative ways of making ASF people contribute. Make sure that the guides are there, make sure the people are enthused and invited, finding a way to do so. Which I sincerely hope is going to happen. Keeping fingers crossed for getting the funding (I know things are progressing there) as well as for choosing/finding the right person and setting it for success with expectations for the person. [1] The CI/CD "knowledge transfer" meeting - https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=321718991 [2] "CI
[Marketing] Open Source India 2024
Hello team, We are participating in the Open Source India meetup[1] as community/supporting partners (we will have a booth as well), and we generally promote the event and our participation via our media channels. We would like to request the M&P team to help us promote our participation via the main ASF media channels. Here are some quick links to their social media accounts https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/open-source-india/ https://twitter.com/opensourceforu We could mention that community passes are free for the event P.S. The event is scheduled around 2 weeks from now on 23-24 October 2024. Looking forward to hearing from you soon! [1] https://www.opensourceindia.in/ Thanks and Regards Aditya Sharma - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, at 19:23, Gilles Sadowski wrote: > Le dim. 13 oct. 2024 à 16:28, Rich Bowen a écrit : >> >> On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 10:16 AM Gilles Sadowski wrote: >> >> > Le dim. 13 oct. 2024 à 15:25, Christian Grobmeier >> > a écrit : >> > > >> > > Probably this it a case for the new VP tooling? >> > > I doubt many people are interested in building software for internal >> > use. Look at Pony Mail >> > >> > Why are some tools (only) for internal use? >> > Somewhat conversely, why is such a tool preferred over a widely used one? >> > >> >> Because there isn't one. > > If "PonyMail" is the only one of its kind, why isn't everyone using it > (and gathering here to maintain it)? PonyMail is literally "lists.apache.org". Only a few organizations use mailing lists like we do, so only we use the tool. The reporting tool also matches almost exactly ASF's needs. Others may use tools from Bitergia, etc. Fame and glory come to those doing high-profile projects, but nobody recognizes foundation work. I assume that this is why only a few sign up to maintain the foundation's needed tools. I might be wrong though, but this is how I feel about it. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
Re: missing commit stats for a few projects
Hi - If you want to know about the tooling position then: 1) The position has been posted. 2) VP, Tooling is currently Myrle Krantz. Best, Dave > On Oct 13, 2024, at 8:34 AM, Jarek Potiuk wrote: > >> I'm actually not sure where the discussion of the requirements for a > tooling position is happening. I just know it's not here. > > Maybe someone else in this discussion can help with that then. > > On Sun, Oct 13, 2024 at 5:27 PM Rich Bowen wrote: > >> On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 11:03 AM Jarek Potiuk wrote: >> This is a hugely important perspective and we should be sure that it >> gets injected into the discussion of that position. I don't think this point >>> has been made. And that is a skill that isn't necessary going to be part of >>> the skill set of a tools engineer. >>> >>> I thought my message in this thread is doing exactly this - bringing the >>> perspective, and I hope those who see it will bring it to other >> discussions >>> that I am not aware of and not involved in. But if you think I should >>> present >>> my perspective elsewhere, I am happy to do it. >>> >> >> I'm actually not sure where the discussion of the requirements for a >> tooling position is happening. I just know it's not here. >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
